Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment

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Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Persistent WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior in WP:NCROY discussions		10 May 2024	0/4/0

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Open cases

Case name	Links	Evidence due	Prop. Dec. due
Venezuelan politics	(t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t)	20 Apr 2024	04 May 2024

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Case name	Closed
Conflict of interest management	13 Apr 2024
Mzajac	7 May 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation	none	(orig. case)	28 June 2018
Amendment request: American politics 2	none	(orig. case)	28 June 2018

Arbitrator motions

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Requests for clarification and amendment

Use this section to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

• Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
• Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).

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4. Add the diffs of the talk page notifications under the applicable header of the request.

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Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation

The amendment request is declined --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Initiated by SMcCandlish at 09:04, 21 June 2018 (UTC) Case or decision affected Article titles and capitalisation arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t) Clauses to which an amendment is requested § Discretionary sanctions § Motion: Article titles and capitalization (February 2017) § Enforcement log List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request SMcCandlish (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator) Information about amendment request § Discretionary sanctions Repeal § Motion: Article titles and capitalization (February 2017) Annotate as moot § Enforcement log Merge (if necessary) into the DS logs we now use, and delete from the case page Statement by SMcCandlish WP:ARBATC's application of discretionary sanctions (DS) to WP:Article titles, WP:Manual of Style, and related pages (MoS subpages, and AT's split-off naming conventions [NC] guidelines) has never been helpful, and is certainly no longer needed. The DS-related banners at the top of the related talk pages have a chilling effect and aren't conducive to collaborative policy formation. In short, they're scary, and reduce rather than enhance community input into the management of AT/MoS. The DS were authorized back when there was an unpleasant squabble going on between a small number of parties. The party most disruptive at the time (Born2cycle) was later narrowly topic-banned, then blocked for further alleged disruption at WT:RM (not as a DS matter, since the DS do not apply to that page). ARBATC didn't restrain this person's "remake title policy in my image" activities; usual community process has done that. Another party, was a WP:TBAN-evading sockpuppet, later dealt with by standard administrative means. ARBATC did unreasonable damage immediately: party Noetica quit editing shortly after ARBATC, costing us a good editor. (There were no findings of fact about him doing anything wrong, but he was nevertheless accused-by-template of "continued wrongdoing", and resigned in protest.) There is no sign of AT/MoS-related pages being subject to any disruptive activity of note since 2016, and that was caused by a single person who could have been dealt with at ANI. Before that, the only major issue since ARBATC was in 2014, and resolved by RfC. The kind of disruption addressed in ARBATC was short-term and minor compared to what DS are usually authorized for (e.g. "my ethnicity/religion/country versus yours" hate-mongering). It was primarily a four-editor personality conflict. Why do we have DS covering a policy page and dozens of calm, quiet guideline pages for a localized squabble that ended years ago, and which didn't need DS to end it? These DS, when applied at all, have mostly been used one-sidedly to punish AT/MoS regulars for minor transgressions, but never applied to critics of our title policy or style manual no matter how nasty they get in their behavior toward other editors. Some of these punitive-not-preventative DS actions against MoS maintainers were overturned by WP:AN as illegitimate. The one time the ARBATC DS have been used to restrain a long-term disrupter of MoS-related pages, the DS route was shockingly inefficient, requiring at least four WP:AE reports nearly back-to-back (after previous noticeboard actions, e.g. at WP:ANEW, where ARBATC DS were inappropriately used to punish the filer – this is one of the invalid DS that AN vacated), constant relitigation at WP:ARCA and AE, and an enormous amount of drama (now entering its third year, still ongoing as of this very month). WP:ANI would have handled this far more expediently, probably in one to two decisions (T-ban, followed by indef or community ban if necessary). In a case where DS arguably could have been used effectively to restrain multi-party, organized disruption, absolutely nothing was done for years, until the community resolved it a huge RfC (after two earlier RfCs and a WP:MR). ARBATC was no help at all, and the community didn't need DS in the end. So why's it still there? February 2017 re-scoping motion: It not only invalidated many of the previous ARBATC DS sanctions as having been out-of-scope, it made these DS so constrained – to only the AT/MOS pages and their talk pages – that they're effectively inapplicable. Almost all "style"-related disruptive activity takes place on article talk pages, mostly in WP:Requested moves threads (and most of the rest is at wikiproject talk pages). ArbCom was made aware of this, yet chose to drastically limit the DS scope anyway. The committee themselves clearly recognize that the DS hammer should not be brought to bear on policy- and guideline-interpretation discussions broadly, and that normal community and administrative remedies are sufficient for disruptive activity in them. This was a wise decision, as an earlier ArbCom effectively telling the community that if anyone momentarily loses their temper in a WP:P&G-related thread it may result in unusual punishment is ultimately a separation of powers problem, an interference in WP's self-governance. WP policy material evolves over time in response to such discussions; it is not an immutable law no one is permitted to question. This was actually a central point in the ARBATC case itself (see initial comments by Tony1, for example). "Enforcement log": It's just a short list of early recipients of {{Ds/alert|at}}, and there have been many more since. These notices/warnings officially expire after a year anyway. Twice already ArbCom has instructed that any items in that list that need to be retained should be merged into the newer DS logging system and this old "scarlet letter" material removed, yet it still hasn't been done years later. Effect on sanctions: If the ARBATC DS are ended, this mustn't affect sanctions issued while DS were in effect. Let's not create another wikilawyering angle to exploit! If DS were the prescribed means in 2016 for dealing with AT/MoS disruption then they were that means, and the community should not have to re-re-re-litigate to restrain a disruptor from returning to the same activity on a technicality. Standing: I was named as a party, despite no connection to the actual ARBATC dispute ("MoS editors" guilt by association). Since then, I've seen and personally felt WP:ARBATC#Discretionary sanctions doing nothing but causing trouble for Wikipedia and its editorial community – from punitive, disproportionate, and one-sided sanctions, to years of drama-mongering, to a disengagement of the community from its own policy and guideline pages; all while the DS have failed to actually help the community expediently resolve any actual At/MoS-related disruption. The ARBATC DS are probably the single most obvious failure of DS to be a useful solution. Not every problem's a nail, so a hammer isn't the only tool we should use.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:04, 21 June 2018 (UTC) Re "I've seen how high the passions run in this area": But generally not at the AT/NC or MoS themselves nor their talk pages, which are the only ones covered by the DS any longer. The few times it's gotten out of hand, within an even vaguely relevant time-span (2014 is really pushing it), the standard community/admin remedies would have been not only sufficient but obviously better. And it wasn't because the "topic area" is fraught with drama, but because of a few specific individuals crossing WP:DE lines (with behavior that would be disruptive regardless of the subject, like intentional derailing of RfCs to thwart community input in both the specific cases I mentioned). This simply isn't comparable to ethno-ideological editwarring, or obsessive insertion of fringe medical claims, or constant Trump promotion vs. bashing, and other things where where DS regularly do have a palpable dispute-reduction effect. Everyone may have an opinion about titles and style, but very, very few are on a WP:GREATWRONGS crusade about them (and things don't fall apart even when one such arises; non-DS means routinely deal with it). The AT/MoS DS are simply disused; the community and the admin corps don't find them useful, and when they rarely are used, it's generally a trainwreck of questionable judgement or farcical bureaucracy. Shotguns are effective for hunting ducks, but not very useful for dealing with a mouse in the kitchen. DS haven't even been useful in MOS:INFOBOX-related disputes; that's come to separate WP:RFARBs, twice.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:50, 23 June 2018 (UTC) @Callanecc: In what way would that incident not have been resolveable with a regular administrative warning or a normal noticeboard action? "There was a problem" doesn't equate to "There was a problem that required DS". Editwarring is already covered by WP:Editwarring policy and has its own noticeboard at WP:ANEW.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Update: Since 2 Arbs are requesting more input, I've placed neutral notices about this request at the main AT and MoS talk pages. That'll probably be sufficient.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:48, 23 June 2018 (UTC) @BU Rob13: Disruption hasn't decreased in this area as a result of DS, because the DS are almost never actually deployed, and when they are it's not toward the actions that are most disruptive. Rather, AT/MoS disruption has gone down naturally as these policies/guidelines and their interpretation and application have stabilized, same as with the rest of our WP:P&G system, plus a more conventionalized approach to dispute resolution today than we had a decade ago. (Anyone remember how "useful" WP:RFC/U was? Ha ha.) Another factor is the smaller and more committed editorial base we have now versus in the first 5–10 years, when it was kind of a torrent of short-term people, mostly from SlashDot, and the entire project had kind of a "this is a crazy open development experiment for geeks" feel to it. The average editor today is more likely to be a writer, an academic, a grad student, a blogger, rather than a computer nerd whose main hobby, aside from fragging strangers in combative videogames, is arguing for sport on webboards. The nature of the place has shifted, as would be expected; we're long out of the early-adopter, wild-and-wooly phase. The chilling effect isn't a chill on disruption. The ARBATC DS are virtually never applied to anyone who shows up to AT or MoS and starts being disruptive; regulars at those pages are more likely to be subjected to boomerang sanctions for daring to complain about the disrupters. This is one reason we virtually never bring RFARB, ARCA, or AE actions against anyone (another is that the regulars at the pages aren't battlegrounders, but shepherds; we're averse to drama, and we seek stability and smooth sailing, even if we don't all agree on things.) The chilling effect is on general participation. People used to engage much more often, and more broadly from throughout the editorial pool, at these pages, but DS immediately cast a pall and it's never dissipated. I go out of my way to draw broader attention (e.g. at WP:VPPOL) to MOS/AT/NC/DAB-related RfCs, but overall the participation in them is markedly lower today than in 2012 when the DS were implemented, even if you account for the smaller overall editorial pool. The minor bits of disruption we've seen and where DS were applied (at least in the abstract, i.e. warnings) were all blips that could have be dealt with at ANI or ANEW or with a DS-unrelated civility warning. Meanwhile, the two actually severe bouts of disruption (which I mentioned already) happened after the DS. The DS were not used to prevent the problems; the community resolved the first on its own; and the second dragged on until the situation became so intolerable that someone did finally try using AE, long after much of the damage was done, and then it just turned into three years of additional drama. The only thing like this that happened before the DS was the date auto-linking and auto-formatting squabbles, which were not the ARBATC issue, but handled in an earlier RFARB, WP:ARBDATE – and handled without DS.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:08, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Boomerang: The ANEW that was reversed onto me [1] then overturned at AN [2] is an obvious case. (The reported editor is the one who was not long after T-banned (largely on the same evidence as presented at ANEW) then indeffed and who's been the broken record at appeal after appeal). The most egregious example was probably when an AE request was opened regarding an editor who'd just been at ANI for the same sort of AT-related disruption, right on the heels of a highly critical RFC/U. Various AT/RM regulars were critical of this editor, based on previously provided evidence, and not in WP:NPA-raising terms. As retribution, the editor opened an AE immediately below the one open about him, to go after his AT critics. Rather than listen to this plurality of editors, AE admins refused to accept the fact that evidence against the problem editor had been supplied in spades at ANI and RFC/U, and instead jumped all over the whole lot (except the subject of the original report, of course). It's two back-to-back threads, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive129#Noetica and the one immediately above it. Unsurprisingly, the problem editor was very soon after dealt with at ANI. (I'm avoiding mentioning the name of the other editor, per Newyorkbrad, since they were subjected to a long-term block and may no longer be active.) Yet another case where ANI gets it right and DS/AE just end up being a BUREAUCRACY/WIKILAWYER/GAMING farm.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:48, 23 June 2018 (UTC) @BU Rob13: Then please read it again. From the close: "It is clear that this topic ban did not have the support of the community, and it is only procedural delay that let the discussion continue so long." That bears no resemblance to your summary. The central issue was that the ban-issuing admin refused to offer any justification or clarification – at AN, at my talk page, at his own talk page, anywhere – despite multiple editors and other admins requesting those rationales, and despite that admin being actively editing the entire time. It wasn't an oversight, it was a patent refusal. This was obviously grounds for a WP:ADMINACCT case at ArbCom against the admin in question (especially since it followed on a previous very similar misuse of ARBATC DS by the same admin, applying it to Wikipedia talk:Requested moves which is outside ARBATC's scope, and to only one side of the dispute that was active there). I chose not to file an RFARB, or to even appeal the T-ban until near its end, simply because I'm averse to WP:DRAMA and I wanted to make the point that the T-ban was objectionable on its own lack-of-merits not because I was personally unhappy or "chomping at the bit", or out for "revenge". The perhaps predictable devolution of this ARCA into "find some way to point the finger at the ARCA request even after AN concluded in the other direction, and even though this ARCA is about DS and the topic area not this editor in particular" actually serves to highlight what's wrong with DS in this area in the first place. It's disappointing to encounter what looks like an implication that I must have some kind of nefarious motive in questioning DS's application to AT/MOS. This isn't about me (I haven't had a personal issue with ARBATC DS in years). What happed to AGF, and ARBATC's own instructions to not personalize style disputes? :-/  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:18, 23 June 2018 (UTC) @BU Rob13: I chose to focus in the appeal on whether the remedy was needed; as you well know, that's virtually the only way to get a sanction lifted, ever. It's "wikisuicidal" to focus on whether one was just/correct. The fact that several AN respondents also focused on this is meaningless except as an indicator of what is typical at ANs. You asked for an example and I provided one, of an admin mis-applying DS one-sidedly (shutting down a legit ANEW request the intent of which was to stop someone disrupting two RfCs back-to-back), who then stubbornly refused to do WP:ADMINACCT for two months, and whose "discretion" was reversed by AN. If AE's collective assessment of largely the same evidence against the same reported user concluded in favor of a T-ban then a block, but the lone admin came to the nearly opposite conclusion, the latter was clearly a misapplication of DS and of admin authority generally. It's also a principle here that we don't supervote and second-guess a closer's decision years after the fact; if you had an issue with the AN closer's consensus rede, you should have raised that in 2015. More importantly for this ARCA rationale the huge drama pile over the last three years, surrounding that reported editor, might even have been avoided if that ANEW has proceeded as normal; if similar behavior had popped up again, ANI would have dealt with it swiftly and cleanly. The misuse of DS to thwart standard DR process directly enabled continued long-term disruptive editing by that party. The DS had the diametric opposite of the intended effect. All that aside, I also provided a more important, broader, second example, which you ignored, despite it showing ARBATC DS to have been problematic since the start.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:11, 24 June 2018 (UTC) @Callanecc: By your reasoning, all of WP should be covered by DS, since there is recurrent dispute about virtually every topic. Let's reverse this: Can you or anyone else provide even a single example of ARBATC DS being applied, to a situation in which a) there were no grounds for an administrative warning (e.g for EW or DE) absent the DS, or b) there were no grounds for a noticeboard action (ANI, ANEW, NORN, etc.), only for DS and AE? If not, then the DS are not serving a purpose here since standard remedies suffice. Combine that with the dismal failure of DS and AE to actually deal effectively with a long-term disrupter when that route was actually attempted in good faith. This ARCA is obviously going nowhere, so I'll just drop it and wait for another ArbCom. The passage of time, the collection of further evidence of mis-application and of failure of DS to work in this area, and simple cycling out of some committee members seems likely to be necessary to get the nebulously menaching fog lifted off these policypages. DS never should have been applied to this in the first place, given that the rationale for it was just a petty four-editor squabble that would have resolved itself soon enough anyway. ARBATC#Discretionary_sanctions was an over-reaction. By current standards, DS would not have been applied in that case. The reluctance of ArbCom today to impose DS doesn't square with its simultaneous reluctance to un-impose old DS where DS would not have been imposed today. And the fact that ARBATC DS have been invoked for warnings twice in half a year is trivial, in no way suggestive that DS works in this area. This is basically magical thinking. "It rained last night, after I prayed to the rain gods, ergo prayer works." I've offered far more plausible explanations above why AT/MoS see less dispute today than they did in 2011.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:11, 24 June 2018 (UTC) @Thryduulf: I've already addressed all that; that party's T-ban, I-ban, and perhaps an indef if necessary would have all happened under ANI, far more expediently than the ridiculous amount of AE litigation that was required. DS / AE were not needed to arrive at remedies, but were a drawn-out impediment to doing so – pretty much the least useful approach we could contemplate.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:25, 25 June 2018 (UTC) Statement by Thryduulf I find this an odd request, given that within the last month Darkfrog24 had an appeal of their topic ban placed under these discretionary sanctions declined, a one-way I bad against Smccandlish (the nominator here) added to that topic ban, and a short block for breaching the topic ban during the appeal imposed. They were indeffed by NeilN later the same day for breaching their topic ban on their talk page. See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive235#Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Darkfrog24 and user talk:Darkfrog24. Given this very recent history (7 June) of ATC discretionary sanctions being actively used, I would be inclined to say that they are currently still needed. Thryduulf (talk) 09:19, 24 June 2018 (UTC) Statement by CBM I believe that the discretionary sanctions are particularly important on MOS pages, which by the subjective nature of the content are more prone to personal arguments than many other pages. I wanted to post a few links in particular, which may or may not be informative about the continuing benefit of DS. From a MOS-related RFC in December: [3], from earlier this week [4] [5] ("childish"), and from today [6]. This is the tone with discretionary sanctions in effect. Statement by {other-editor} Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information. Article titles and capitalisation: Clerk notes This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals). Quick note about the DS notifications given prior to alerts being a thing: WP:AC/DS#sanctions.log directs the clerks to keep the notifications on the main case pages ("Notifications and warnings issued prior to the introduction of the current procedure on 3 May 2014 are not sanctions and remain on the individual case page logs."). It's true that some portion of the work from implementing the DS procedure changes remains on the clerks' to-do list, but this is not one of them. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 15:50, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Article titles and capitalisation: Arbitrator views and discussion I raised the idea of rescinding discretionary sanctions in several areas on the arb list very recently, but this wasn’t one of the areas I was looking at. I’m open to being convinced, but I’ve seen how high the passions run in this area, and I’ll need to be convinced the discretionary sanctions are a net negative in the area. Awaiting more statements. (As a procedural aside, you don’t need “standing” to appeal a remedy or sanction affecting pages. Any editor can do that.) ~ Rob13Talk 03:50, 23 June 2018 (UTC) @SMcCandlish: Can you comment specifically on why you don't feel disruption has decreased in this area because of the discretionary sanctions? You state they have no positive effect, but you also state they have somewhat of a chilling effect. A chilling effect on disruption is essentially the intent behind discretionary sanctions, and I wouldn't want to revoke discretionary sanctions if they're the reason we've seen less frequent issues in this area. ~ Rob13Talk 15:10, 23 June 2018 (UTC) It would be helpful to have a couple links to those boomerang results you mention. ~ Rob13Talk 16:20, 23 June 2018 (UTC) I don't read the AN thread that resulted in your topic ban being lifted as saying that the ban was incorrect. I read it as saying that the ban was no longer necessary. This is also reflected in what you yourself wrote in the first couple lines of that request, stating the ban was no longer necessary because the underlying dispute had died down. In any event, if the only examples of potentially problematic enforcement are from 2015, I don't find that very convincing. Enforcement has evolved quite a bit since then. ~ Rob13Talk 18:23, 23 June 2018 (UTC) I'm reading the discussion, not the closing summary. In total, four editors supported lifting the ban. Of those, none said the ban was inappropriate. They focused more on the fact it was no longer serving a purpose (or was vague/poorly defined). It's somewhat unclear the topic ban even should have been lifted, since four editors supporting and two opposing do not usually form a "clear and substantial consensus" required to lift a discretionary sanction. This has nothing to do with the fact that you (as the ARCA filer) were the subject of that ban and everything to do with whether enforcement in this area has been poor. I asked for examples of poor enforcement, and you offered that one up. You shouldn't find it shocking that I looked into it. No-one has stated you have any "nefarious motive" here. ~ Rob13Talk 21:34, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Decline. ~ Rob13Talk 23:36, 24 June 2018 (UTC) I'm definitely not in favour of removing this set of discretionary sanctions. This is an area where passions run very high and disputes are relatively commonplace. In fact, just last month I alerted and warned a few editors who were edit warring on a MOS page. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:29, 23 June 2018 (UTC) The fact that discretionary sanctions didn't need to be used is a good thing. The knowledge that discretionary sanctions are in force and that an administrator is willing to use them is, in many instances, enough to make editors stop. I'd also note that these discretionary sanctions have already been used against two different editors for two different reasons this year (in my case to calm a situation and as an alternative to a block). My opinion is pretty clear here, if discretionary sanctions have been authorised by the committee they should not be removed unless there is no longer conflict in the subject area and it's not likely to return in the short term. This topic area, from what I've looked at, doesn't meet either criteria. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:26, 24 June 2018 (UTC) I'm with my colleagues above. From my observations they are still necessary. Doug Weller talk 10:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC) I'd like to see some more input from editors active on the relevant pages. (But unless really necessary, let's avoid discussing editors who are now banned and can't defend themselves.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2018 (UTC) I've reviewed the information above, and I will agree with my colleagues as well that these sanctions are still needed at this time. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:17, 24 June 2018 (UTC) I agree with everything my colleagues have said above. I'm happy to clear out the cobwebs on disused sanctions - but these are being used, even if rarely, and it doesn't sound like the underlying disputes have really stopped happening. Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:25, 25 June 2018 (UTC) I would like to hear more comments from the community and editors who work in this area. So far not a lot of outside feedback for or against the continuation of these DS. Mkdw talk 18:07, 25 June 2018 (UTC) I generally agree that the sanctions are still of use, per the above commentary. Like Mkdw I wish there was more feedback from others in the area, but lacking that I'm prepared to decline this right now. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC) Really wish we had more input from affected editors but it's obvious there's recent conflict in this area. I believe they're still necessary. Katietalk 15:15, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Amendment request: American politics 2

Initiated by MrX at 19:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

American politics 2 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. WP:ARBAPDS

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request

• MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Atsme (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• [diff of notification Atsme]

Information about amendment request

• WP:ARBAPDS

• Atsme is topic banned from making any edits relating to Donald Trump, broadly construed.

Statement by MrX

Greetings. I am bringing this here at the recommendation of several AE admins because it's not well suited to WP:AE. The matter concerns the article talk page participation by Atsme in the American Politics topic area, that I believe to be disruptive and damaging to the collaborative editing process. As shown in small sampling of diffs below, Atsme makes a lot of article talk page comments, a great many of which do not positively contribute to building consensus or resolving content disputes. Many of the comments are classic Whataboutism. Others are just off-topic screeds, diversions, defensive reactions to other's comments, dead horse beating, and attempts at levity.

The most troubling comments are the ones that undermine the credibility of highly-respected sources that are prominently used throughout enwiki. These take the form of characterizing sources like The Washington Post and The New York Times as biased, propaganda, clickbait, biased against Trump, rumor, and gossip. She also has a tendency to falsely refer to verifiable facts as "opinion". Her arguments are frequently based on fringe viewpoints typically found on websites like Breitbart, and are often based on fallacious reasoning.

She makes a disproportionately-high number of comments. In the past six months, more than 7 percent of the comments at talk:Donald Trump have come from her, out of 93 editors who have commented in the same period. That would be fine if she were moving discussions toward consensus or resolution, but that is rarely the case. What usually happens if the she will make increasingly tendentious arguments, and then when criticized for doing so, she get's defensive. Her arguments usually convey a tone of self-appointed WP:POVFIGHTER and frequently contain multiple shortcuts to policies that almost all experienced editors are very well-versed in. She often rehashes arguments that have already been put to rest.

Atsme seems to be a warm and affable person who is rarely uncivil, and who I believe is sincere in her participation in the project. She has made some outstanding contributions to building the encyclopedia in areas outside of American Politics, and I have great respect for her for that. It seems though that she has an ideological blind spot which affects here objectivity, and manifests as large amounts of low signal-to-noise ratio commentary.

I am hopeful that Arbcom can deal with this without a full case. I know there are a lot of diffs (and I apologize), but since the behavior is cumulative, rather than incidental, I can't come up with a better way to present this. Sections are roughly arranged in descending degree of concern, and sampling a few diffs should be compelling.

Thank you for your time.

Repeatedly discrediting reliable sources; claiming bias and propaganda in reliable sources (WP:GASLIGHTING)

1. February 16, 2018
2. February 16, 2018
3. February 22, 2018
4. February 22, 2018
5. February 24, 2018
6. February 24, 2018
7. March 1, 2018
8. May 4, 2018
9. May 14, 2018
10. May 19, 2018
11. June 7, 2018
12. June 18, 2018
13. June 19, 2018
14. June 19, 2018
15. June 19, 2018
16. June 24, 2018

Using talk pages for discussion unrelated to edits

(WP:TALKNO, WP:NOTFORUM, WP:SOAPBOX, Whataboutism) [n.b. I excluded her frequent humorous comments]

1. November 17, 2018
2. March 4, 2018
3. March 28, 2018
4. April 5, 2018
5. May 2, 2018
6. May 4, 2018
7. May 14, 2018
8. May 14, 2018
9. May 14, 2018
10. June 7, 2018
11. June 7, 2018
12. June 8, 2018
13. June 19, 2018
14. June 22, 2018
15. June 24, 2018
16. June 26, 2018
17. June 26, 2018

Dominating discussions with excessive and often incoherent rambling (WP:FILIBUSTER, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT)

1. November 9, 2017
2. February 19, 2018
3. February 22, 2018
4. February 22, 2018
5. February 27, 2018 - Not even sure what to call this mess. She made 12 comments, but adavanced the discussion very little.
6. March 4, 2018
7. April 22, 2018
8. June 12, 2018

• Although she often complains about clickbaith sources, she is apparently OK with using source like The Daily Caller [7][8], Breitbart[9], World Net Daily[10], Daily Wire, and RedState[11]

WP:POVFIGHTER

1. December 4, 2017 (User talk page)
2. February 12, 2018
3. February 12, 2018
4. February 22, 2018
5. February 22, 2018
6. February 22, 2018
7. February 26, 2018
8. March 5, 2018
9. April 17, 2018
10. May 13, 2018 - Insists that local consensus is not sufficient for restoring a section heading to the status quo version.
11. June 18, 2018

WP:LAWYER

Frequently adds multiple, irrelevant policy shortcuts to he comments

1. November 22, 2017 - POV, NOTNEWS, WEIGHT, BALANCE, SOAPBOX,
2. May 16, 2018 - WP:NOTNEWS, WP:NEWSORG, WP:TOOMUCH, WP:RS AGE, NOTCRYSTALBALL,
3. May 14, 2018 - IDONTLIKEIT, BLP, PUBLICFIGURE, CONTENTIOUS LABELS, BALANCE AND WEIGHT
4. September 1, 2017 - NPOV, V, WP:PUBLICFIGURE, WP:LABEL, WP:REDFLAG, WP:BLP, WP:UNDUE
5. February 12, 2018 - WP:RGW, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:ADVOCACY, WP:NEWSORG
6. February 22, 2018 - WP:NEWSORG, WP:NOTNEWS, SOAPBOX, RIGHTGREATWRONGS
7. April 25, 2018 - NOTNEWS, NPOV, DUE, BALANCE and OR.
8. June 2, 2018 - SOAPBOX, UNDUE, NOTNEWS
9. June 19, 2018 - NPOV, NOTNEWS, ADVOCACY, SOAPBOX

Previous attempts to resolve. (also WP:IDHT)

Numerous attempts have been made to get Atsme to follow WP:TPG and and to participate more constructively in content discussions. She has rebuffed all of these efforts.

1. August 12, 2017 - Hint
2. November 18, 2017 - Mild warning
3. November 18, 2017 - Discussion
4. December 5, 2017 - Warning
5. December 12, 2017 - Warning
6. February 5, 2018 - Request
7. February 9, 2018 - Hint
8. March 3, 2018 - Hint
9. March 17, 2018 - Plea
10. June 8, 2018 - Request
11. June 19, 2018 - Mild warning
12. June 20, 2018 - Hint
13. June 27, 2017 - Discussion

Misunderstands or distorts policies

1. May 15, 2018 - Says "material is not necessarily DUE simply because it received "massive coverage" " and seven days later May 22, 2018 contradicts herself.
2. May 23, 2018 ?
3. March 20, 2018 - Improper use of rollback in a content dispute. Her explanation [12]
4. May 5, 2017

Frequently misuses WP:NOTNEWS in content disputes.[13][14][15][16]

Making false claims

1. May 28, 2018 - "We are talking about calling a US President a racist in WikiVoice," - No one was proposing it, or even suggesting it.

Repeating arguments ad nauseum (WP:REHASH)

1. February 25, 2018
2. May 14, 2018

Defensiveness (WP:NOTGETTINGIT)

1. November 9, 2017
2. February 7, 2018
3. February 7, 2018
4. April 25, 2018
5. May 17, 2018
6. May 21, 2018
7. May 28, 2018
8. June 2, 2018

Statement by Atsme

I am respectfully requesting that the admins reviewing this case please forgive me for not being able to respond to this case. I am feeling more hurt by what MrX just attempted to do than I am upset over it. I'm not sure if what Drmies concluded hurt me more...but it cuts to the core. For me to respond to these allegations, I would have to provide diffs showing their bad behavior...we all know how that game is played, but I am not here to hurt other editors, or to try to silence them because I disagree with their POV or the material they've added or removed. I have always honored consensus - I am here to build an encyclopedia - to participate in collegial debates and present reasonable arguments. I believe that is exactly what I have done, and if the admins who are here to review my behavior will look at the full discussions and not just the cherrypicked diffs, I believe they will agree. I have always tried to include RS with my comments, but...again...I am a bit overwhelmed right now. I don't have it in me to fight this because in order to defend myself, it will be at their expense, and I don't have the heart to do that. ^{Atsme📞📧} 21:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Mr Ernie

Very disappointing to see this posted here. I would encourage ArbCom, if they are to look into this matter, to look at the whole topic instead of focusing on one editor. For example, over the past year MrX has been very effective removing editors with a different POV than theirs from the topic area. This sort of diff stalking, collecting, and deep diving is somewhat troubling and chilling at the very least. MrX was recently warned about this - see here. Some of the diffs presented here are from a while ago, so it is really disturbing to think there are editors out there holding on to this stuff for months and even years.

Arbcom should dismiss this, or open a full case to look at the entire topic area. Mr Ernie (talk) 20:09, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Tryptofish

Commenting purely about procedural aspects, I don't see what the Committee can do here, in the form of an amendment or clarification. This is the sort of thing that AE, based on the DS from American Politics 2, should be able to handle. Now having said that, it has been my recent experience that AE has been failing miserably at dealing with AP2 cases. It tends to look like the AE administrators can't make up their minds about whether or not they are being asked to resolve content disputes, so they keep punting. Sorry to tell you this, but you are eventually going to have to take an AP3 case, and in the meantime, the AP2 content area is a toxic waste dump that does not come down to just one or two editors. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Winkelvi

MrX wrote in the opening of his statement: "I am bringing this here at the recommendation of several AE admins because it's not well suited to WP:AE" I'm curious about (1) What this is supposed to mean; (2) Whether it means administrators have approached him either on- or off-Wiki to lobby him for bringing a case against Atsme here. I would like the statement clarified. I would also like to know if there have been administrators encouraging him to bring a case against Atsme - and if that's the case, (a) it's very troubling that there has been a coordination of attack by admins against an editor, and (b) who are these admins?

For the sake of transparency, this statement needs to be clarified and the community needs to know what communication off-wiki has taken place that was a precursor to this case being brought.

Aside from this, I agree in total with Mr Ernie's statement above. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 20:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Note It has been brought to my attention that the opening portion of X's statement ("I am bringing this here at the recommendation of several AE admins because it's not well suited to WP:AE") is referring to this discussion at AE. That in mind, someone - preferably MrX - needs to clarify that. As it is, his comments give the impression that administrators have endorsed this case against Atsme. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 20:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

NeilN That in mind, why is this not really an amendment request rather, what seems to be a backdoor way to bring grievances against another editor and ask for sanctions in violation of the 500 word limit at AE - in other words, is it an abuse of the process? Am I totally off base here or am I seeing this correctly? (I don't want to make accusations if inaccurate) -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 20:39, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by NeilN

For Winkelvi and others: Previous procedural discussion. No editors were specifically mentioned and I was unsure if a group of editors was going to be reported. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• @Winkelvi: Admins were not opposed to extending word/diff limits at AE so this not an end run to avoid those limits. That being said, I'm not sure why this is at ARCA instead of being a full case request. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Drmies

"Atsme seems to be a warm and affable person who is rarely uncivil, and who I believe is sincere in her participation in the project. She has made some outstanding contributions to building the encyclopedia in areas outside of American Politics, and I have great respect for her for that. It seems though that she has an ideological blind spot which affects here objectivity, and manifests as large amounts of low signal-to-noise ratio commentary." I couldn't agree more, and the list of diffs, and their analysis, bears this out. I'm sorry it has to come to this, but esp. the constant misunderstanding of fact vs. opinion and the attendant casting doubt on reliable sources (and the very concept thereof) is highly disruptive. Drmies (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Atsme, for me this is in large part about your attitude toward reliable sources. If it hadn't been for that I might not have weighed in there, but this cynicism toward reliable sources and reputable media leads to an erosion of trust and in a community that wants to produce an encyclopedia we cannot have that. It takes too much time and energy to counter the many, many unfounded allegations, which drags along editors who might otherwise stay out of the area but who know see their Facebook thread reflected in Wikipedia. In return, other editors are chased out of the area because it is just not worth their time and energy. But these things I have said before, in individual threads and subthreads, and they are frequently answered only with an attempt at levity--and then we do it all over again. Drmies (talk) 22:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by SMcCandlish

Concur with Tryptofish. It's not just a couple of editors, and it's across a large number of articles. I've gotten to where I studiously avoid entering the topic area other that to quickly post a !vote in an RfC I get from WP:FRS, then leave quickly. Even aside from factional PoV-pushing and a general degradation of civility, there a massive WP:NOT#FORUM / WP:NOT#ADVOCACY problem.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:04, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by MjolnirPants

My full statement to the Arbs is located here.
Atsme is one of a very (very) small number of Wikipedians I would like to consider my friend, but I strongly urge the arbs to take this case. I have written my entire response here, so as not to post a giant wall of text on this page. I strongly encourage the arbs to read it in it's entirety before deciding whether or not to take this case.

Atsme, I hope you don't take my support here as a betrayal, because it's not. You are not the only editor I think should get the hell out of AmPol, and I don't think you're entirely to blame for why you should get out. So I encourage you to take my advice: let the Arbs take this case to try and fix the cesspool that is AmPol, but in the meantime, do as I did and just unwatch every directly political page on your watchlist. At the very least, doing so would essentially remove any reason to sanction you, regardless of what ArbCom thinks of the evidence above. If you don't think you can do that, or you can't accept that you should, then I'm afraid I would need to strongly support any proposed topic ban for you. Please don't make it come to that. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:22, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

I am unsure as to why the OP received the advice to bring this complaint here, as it obviously seems to be suited to AE as it has been presented here.

I've read the full statement by MjolnrPants linked to just above, and they certainly have a valid point, that the American Politics subject area is a quagmire that drives away editors and needs to be cleaned up. However, I disagree that this requires a full arbitration case, and I can't imagine there's any great enthusiasm on the party of the community -- or Arbcom, for that matter -- for an AP3 case. I do agree with cleaning up the subject area, though, and a start on that can be made by dealing with individual editors who may be part of the problem. If these editors are topic banned, it would, presumably, reduce the number of disputes, and would send a message to other disputatious editors.

So, the end result is that I fall in with the idea that this request is not properly suited to ARCA, since it involves a single editor, and is not calling for specific changes in the discretionary sanction regime. It seems clearly to be an AE case and should be closed here and brought there, as should any similar complaints regarding other editors. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:07, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Fyddlestix

Procedural questions aside, I'd just like to encourage admins/arbs to not be too quick to dismiss this and to take the time to look at the pattern of behavior and how much disruption it's caused over time. Atsme really does have difficulty accepting RS as RS when it comes to the AP area, and a tendency to repeatedly spam WP:POLICYSHORTCUTS as if they were an automatic "i win" button in AP debates, while ignoring other editors' earnest explanations of why the policy might not apply/why it might not be that simple (ie, IDHT). This is a pattern of behavior that has remained unchanged for a long period of time, despite repeated pleas/warnings from others - this RFC from over a year ago, for example, shows much the same type of disruptive behavior displayed in MrX's more recent diffs. Fyddlestix (talk) 22:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

To add: I agree with others' comments that the whole topic area is a bit of a shit-show: if arbcom wants to take on an AP3 case to resolve the broader issues, more power to them, but that is a massive undertaking and a huge challenge. If not, then the fact that the roof is on fire doesn't mean you should ignore the gas leak in the basement: I'd echo BMK's suggestion that even if taking care of one problem doesn't solve all our problems, it's a start and a step worth taking. Fyddlestix (talk) 23:26, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.

American politics 2: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

American politics 2: Arbitrator views and discussion

• If the situation is too complex for AE, it’s too complex for ARCA. Your two options are to file a report at AE or to file a case request, in my opinion. For now, I decline to comment on the merits of the report to avoid prejudicing a potential discussion at AE. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 22:48, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

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