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List of Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine

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What garbage. It's a list of 3 people, 3 people whom are already mentioned elsewhere (Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Category:Military personnel killed in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine). If this were transformed into a category, it wouldn't even meet WP:SMALLCAT. To assume that enough Russian generals will eventually die in order to make this an actual list is pure WP:CRYSTAL (which the creator unintentionally gets at when they wrote "The best way to contribute is if people continue to add names to the list" on the talk page.

I know this was created in good-faith by a productive editor, but jesus there have been so many shitty articles created about this war, and this is one of them. Curbon7 (talk) 08:02, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment as nominator I'm more or less fine with the article at this point, mostly thanks to the excellent work by Neutrality. It's probable that we will re-visit this and many other of the war articles later down the line, but for now it's in acceptable state in my opinion. For the record, this is what the article looked like when I nominated it, so I fully stand by my decision to nominate it at the time. (n.b. This is not a withdrawal (per WP:WITHDRAWN), and the other arguments should still be taken into consideration by the closer. I'm just stepping back from the discussion and throwing my hat into the reluctantly keep crowd.) Curbon7 (talk) 01:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Military, Russia, and Ukraine. Curbon7 (talk) 08:03, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NLIST. As far as I'm aware we don't have lists of generals killed in any other conflict and so see no need to make an exception here. All 3 are already covered on Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War and there is a lack of reliably sourced analysis of what a high number of generals being killed indicates. I share Curbon7's concerns that far too many pages are being created about this war with scant regard for notability or sourcing. WP:NOTNEWS applies here, we are a lagging indicator and should not be trying to cover every new aspect of this war as it happens. Mztourist (talk) 08:21, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The lack of such lists for other conflicts can be explained by the fact that generals are not normally killed in conflicts. The fact that three Russian generals have already been killed makes this even more notable. Strebo7 (talk) 15:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's at least one other "generals killed" in a war list : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._general_officers_and_flag_officers_killed_in_World_War_II 24.35.22.115 (talk) 23:59, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The list satisfies WP:NLIST. This policy states: "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources". Many reliable sources identify the deaths of generals as a notable feature of this war.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6]. Another source, the BBC, that gives notability to the article by discussing the dead Russian generals as a group: Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.. ^[7] I'm editing to continue to add sources which discuss dead Russian generals as a group or set as per WP:NLIST. These sources and the ones above are not sources for individual dead Russian generals but sources about the group or set.^[8]^[9] “Three generals already — that’s a shocking number,” Michael McFaul, the former United States ambassador to Russia, said in an interview. On Wednesday, Ukrainian officials reported that a fourth general, Maj. Gen. Oleg Mityaev, the commander of the 150th motorized rifle division, had been killed in fighting. ^[10]. In addition, the category "Lists of generals" offers prima facie evidence of the feasibility of the article. Contrary to the assertion above, there is another list article of generals killed.^[11]. That "too many" articles are being made is not a valid argument for deletion. On CNN David Petraeus's comments add additional legitimacy to this article as per WP:NLIST, stating is "Very very uncommon" for so many generals to be killed and that the Ukrainians "have been picking them off left and right."^[12]. I disagree with suggestions that this article be merged with the casualties articles. Reliable sources specifically identify dead Russian generals in Ukraine as a notable group and therefore this merits a standalone article as per WP:NLiST. There is the report today that the Ukrainians killed a flag officer. If this is confirmed then the title could be changed to 'List of Russian generals and flag officers killed...'.AugusteBlanqui (talk) 09:13, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Newsweek has not been able to independently verify the claims." Mztourist (talk) 10:50, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Newsweek article contributes to the notability of the list. As I quoted from the policy, if reliable sources discuss a group or set then a List article of that group or set is appropriate; the deaths are verified in other sources (but some of the above too, e.g. WSJ). AugusteBlanqui (talk) 16:03, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as unverified crap and WP:NOTNEWS. The second death is inferred from intercepted ~~phone~~ conversations, the third a tweet from the Ukrainian military. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:05, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as too soon. At this stage, there will inevitably be much doubt about casualties. There will be claims and denials, and no easy way to verify anything. It is impossible to judge the value of lists like this, or ensure they are accurate, until we have the perspective of some historical distance. Elemimele (talk) 11:17, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete With all due respect, this is barely even a list, with only 3 people. It looks like WP:TOOSOON. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 12:57, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - 3 generals kicking the bucket during two weeks of war, is notable for a modern war (and feel free to show us that there are other modern wars with comparable numbers for one of the sides). The title is okay and notable. The list is notable and short - but not too short. 89.8.146.21 (talk) 13:04, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:NLIST, like someone said before, also the Category alread exist, Category:Military personnel killed in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Also I remember correcting a false death allegation of a Chechen leader named Magomed. Seems wiki-enthusiasm is responsible for the creationof spam articles.Mr.User200 (talk) 16:55, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - already covered by the article Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War#Russian and DPR/LPR military, it doesn't deserve a list of its own at this stage. P1221 (talk) 16:56, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I am not aware of any other conflict where three or more "flag officers" of such rank from a world or regional power were killed in combat. This is quite remarkable and provides a high level of notability. Strebo7 (talk) 17:16, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a valid argument for keeping. Also, List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll. Curbon7 (talk) 00:18, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The American Civil War, the various Napoleonic wars, and more recently the Vietnam War had general officers killed in combat or as a result of hostile fire. Claiming this conflict is somehow unique when it is not isn't a basis for keeping the list. Intothat darkness 14:13, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- In modern war this is much less common [1] Cloudjpk (talk) 23:12, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - In Vietnam, at least 4 of the 7 U.S. major generals who died 1967-1970, died in helicopters or other aircraft.--It seems like the Russians are loosing major generals at approximately seventy-five times the rate that the U.S. was loosing theirs. 89.8.146.21 (talk) 03:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:OR, irrelevant to the article’s notability. Dronebogus (talk) 04:28, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    International business times is also unreliable per WP:Perennial sources Dronebogus (talk) 04:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War, and no issue with a un-redirect if/when a standalone list is needed. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:28, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to keep now the article has been expanded and has more than 2 names on the list too. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 20:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The continued death toll amongst Russian generals is making it a unique event. Bommbass (talk) 21:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'd also like to add that it is doubtful any of these generals are actually notable, as the only WP:SIGCOV they have received is about their deaths (WP:BIO1E), and there seems to be little other notability. Curbon7 (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unless and until the three biographical articles are deleted, we can assume they are notable. —Michael Z. 00:17, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus is to keep Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vitaly Gerasimov. —Michael Z. 15:41, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and/or redirect to Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War which already contains the list. EkoGraf (talk) 21:54, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete we are now officially seeing “Ukraine invasion cruft”, and this is an example. Three entries is not a list. If the fact that they are all generals is notable (which it probably is) then just add that somewhere else. It’s one sentence worth of information. Most of the keep arguments seem rather WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and WP:ITSINTERESTING and one of the “sources” provided is a circular cite to WP based on WP:OTHERSTUFF Dronebogus (talk) 23:21, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There should simply be a page listing causalities of military commanders of both the Ukrainian and Russian, this page is tiny and irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.127.98.166 (talk) 00:23, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War. This is really just too soon. So far, only three Russian generals have been killed (only one of which has actually been confirmed) and there are just not enough people to justify a stand-alone list. If Russian generals continue to be killed, then a list article may be appropriate but until then I think the Casualties page is the best place for the contents of this article. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Since my initial vote, the article has been greatly cleaned up and its plain that there has been substantial media coverage on the deaths of Russian generals during the 2022 Invasion of Ukraine. I believe that special attention still needs to be paid to verifiability, but I think this meets NLIST. Also, I think WP:RAPID can be reasonably applied to this list. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 00:03, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete far too short for a standalone list and already covered in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War. At least one of the entries is referenced to a claim by Ukrainian intelligence and may not be accurate. Hut 8.5 08:51, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete It fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NLIST. I mean who puts this shit on Wikipedia? I mean five generals, that is scant information for a list. Felicia (talk) 17:31, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to List of Russian commanders killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine and expand to include other high-ranking Russian officers KIA. This article can potentially serve as a source.--Kober^Talk 20:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Even if the article is kept, the source you provide cant be used totally since is ONCE AGAIN claiming the death of Magomed Tushaev (a proven claim/fake), citing The Daily Mail, a deprecetad source, the first ever "unreliable source" for use as a reference on the English Wikipedia.^[13]. Mr.User200 (talk) 13:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete too soon, wait until more generals are killed Taiwanesetoast888 (talk) 22:38, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "The best way to contribute is if people continue to add names to the list" I can think of one way to add names… Dronebogus (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and expand to include all senior officer ranks from unit commander and up. It is a perfectly valid topic for a list, but the definition is unnecessarily restrictive. —Michael Z. 00:06, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That would just add even more non-notable people to the list. The only real way to make a list like this is to not make it at all by just making the category if there are enough entries to surpass WP:SMALLCAT. Curbon7 (talk) 00:20, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As WP:NLIST explains, "The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable." It appears that most Delete voters and indeed the nominator have a poor understanding of WP:NLIST. As regards WP:Smallcat, neither list of generals nor Russian generals are small categories. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 10:07, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In short, a list can contain subjects without their own article. —Michael Z. 15:43, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to narrow of a topic. A list of notable people who were killed is probably a meaningful topic. A list specifically of Russian generals seems too narrow. --B (talk) 11:55, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Too soon at the very least. Wikipedia seems to be getting ahead of itself. Intothat darkness 14:14, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. We are now up to four generals killed. Clearly a notable topic. At a minimum this discussion could wait until the end of hostilities. 331dot (talk) 14:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
At least merge/redirect to a section in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War - this is noteworthy. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 15:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The section on Russian military deaths already lists them. Hut 8.5 17:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Way too soon for a list like that. Individual articles suffice. Atchom (talk) 17:40, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War#Russian and DPR/LPR military. I'd suggest merging, but they're already listed there. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 18:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is becoming increasingly notable due to media coverage, so I'd now suggest keeping the article. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 16:36, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep agree with Strebo7, satisfies WP:NLIST because unusual, notable Cloudjpk (talk) 22:19, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are no problems with such list whatsoever. The criteria for inclusion are obvious, and it has 5 items already.My very best wishes (talk) 01:14, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete . Too soon, too short. Redirect to the Casualties list, as others have suggested. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:37, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Redirect. Contains useful information not easily seen elsewhere. Should be Keep if expanded. KingAntenor (talk) 07:35, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With a sixth Russian general on the list - would that be an acceptable expansion, in your view? 89.8.146.21 (talk) 09:49, 17 March 2022 (UTC) 89.8.146.21 (talk) 10:10, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and/or merge to Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War per above. Brandmeister^talk 09:32, 17 March 2022 (UTC)~[reply]
Keep for Now. Topic is of current interest and significant to the on-going war, as well as to future combat. Once war is over, then merge into a larger article about the war, along with the Casualties article mentioned by Brandmeister. Please note that there are unique aspects to the deaths of generals that make them much more important than just causalities. 70.121.218.235 (talk) 09:56, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Any user-account can copy this article and call it "List of generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine". Technically that might not be a merge - that would be the start of a "new" article with a broader scope. That would include generals that are citizens of any country. 89.8.146.21 (talk) 10:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There is plenty of media attention to the number of Russian major generals who have been killed in the invasion. The number increased by 33% since the AfD was posted. There is a significant problem of geographical bias in Wikipedia, but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia about the world written in English, not an encyclopedia about the English-speaking world. We have List of active duty United States Marine Corps major generals and List of active duty United States Air Force major generals. It seems that US major generals haven't died as much in the last few decades as Russian ones have in the last few weeks, so in the Russian case, it seems that the dead ones are more notable than the live ones. An alternative would be to broaden the scope to List of Russian major generals, including both live and dead ones. Apparently there are 20 Russian major generals in Ukraine right now (or 16 after subtracting the four deceased): why should they be less notable than US ones? Boud (talk) 10:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Boud: A Russian major general is not equivalent to USMC or USAF major generals; the Russian ones are one star and the US ones are two-star ranks. See how the Wall Street Journal covered the last major general's death, by not even calling him a major general presumably as it causes some confusion. Four Russian brigadier generals have died in three weeks on the battlefield in Ukraine, Kyiv officials said, showing faults in Moscow’s ability to lead troops into battle.[2] Solipsism 101 (talk) 13:28, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I have improved the article and I think it now comfortably meets the WP:HEYMANN standard. Neutrality^talk 14:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work improving the article! AugusteBlanqui (talk) 09:23, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: article has been significantly expanded. The list is useful in organising the unusually high number of general kills in one place and the unusual story behind why it is happening. Solipsism 101 (talk) 15:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The new sources really strengthen the notability of the 'group or set' as per WP:NLIST. Thanks. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 09:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notable subject, has enough media attention, and has been improved upon recently. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as unverified rumors, indiscriminate and too short list. Confirmed casualties can already be listed in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War. Rio65trio (talk) 21:14, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Too soon. --34 super héros (talk) 15:34, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is pure garbage, unverified and unconfirmed. Afawk it comes from the propaganda mill. The actually confirmed casualties are already covered by the article Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War#Russian and DPR/LPR military, this article has no reason to exist.190.135.235.139 (talk) 22:00, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Unverified and biased. BobNesh (talk) 03:20, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The sheer number of such high-ranking officers killed in such a short period of time is, AFAIK, unprecedented in modern warfare, and has by itself become a notable topic. Numerous articles have been written by various news agencies around the world noting it as being extremely unusual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.73.68 (talk) 05:09, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The war has been the top global news for more than 3 weeks, and the astonishing number of high ranked Russian generals killed is one of the most notable outcome of the ongoing war. Also, it is possible that the list will be further expanded in the future, becoming an even more notable page. 182.239.85.232 (talk) 09:43, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge. It's five people if not more by now. Anyway, this meets WP:NLIST, there are numerous newsmedia making lists of notable Russian military casualties, a sort of trophy for the Ukrainians. Here's a Polish list from a RS newsoutlet: [3]. That said, I'd not object to a merge and redirec to a section in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:00, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:NLIST and the sources provided by User:AugusteBlanqui. Adoring nanny (talk) 11:24, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - besides that it seems to be within guidelines, I think it's also good to have this info expanded in one article as here. One note regarding the editor that put this list up for deletion, not a language and tone that would be accepted in Wikipedia in Norwegian Bokmål, which I mainly contribute to. It should be possible to discuss keeping or deleting an article without resorting to language such as "What garbage", and this one: "I know this was created in good-faith by a productive editor, but jesus there have been so many shitty articles created about this war, and this is one of them." Kind regards, Ulflarsen (talk) 19:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - ... and rename after the XXth entry.☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 21:15, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

and, 2nd thoughts, anyway, in 50 or so yrs it becomes a compendium of lists of servicemen buried on some side of the sides (whatever this means, there was the 1st German War, the 2nd German War, and, now, so, why not to call/name it the 1st Russian war?),... looking/listening live via BBC World News (+ ~50 FTA channels) interviewees on the subject of “Nuremberg trial 2.0”☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 21:40, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

and, for the sake of «neutrality»/„objectivity“, or whatever one likes to title/name it, there are at least two sides in every conflict, so, there should be at least one list for the UA side in this conflict too...☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 00:50, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pietadè, mate what are you talking about lol. Curbon7 (talk) 01:20, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, appears to meet WP:NLIST.--Surv1v4l1st ^{╠Talk║Contribs╣} 02:42, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - list appears relevant and useful, especially in light of this topic becoming somewhat mainstream. Allows for sources to be corroborated without cluttering the main article. --BLKFTR (tlk2meh) 08:40, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Remember Saddam's weapons of mass destruction? Media love to parrot back official propaganda; we shouldn't turn into an article every unverified story that pops up in the news. These "deaths" haven't been confirmed by Russian military sources, it won't be too late to create the article when and if it happens. Yurizuki (talk) 15:06, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The Russians will never officially verify them. If they have got evidence that the news are fake they will immediately deny it. It is very likely that those 5 generals are really killed, as Russians did not deny the death of them, which probably means that the Russians know well they are killed just they don't want to further discourage the soldiers from invading. 182.239.90.135 (talk) 16:19, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is pure WP:CRYSTAL, your own speculation about what will or will not happen. Crystalballing has no place in Wiki. Also, Russian military has acknowledged the death of many leading officers (and honored them), the most recent being Navy commander Andrey Paliy. And your "never" is nonsense: of course everything will be known, verified or debunked, as the conflict ends. Thus WP:NOTNEWS, WP:SYNTH, WP:TOOSOON. Yurizuki (talk) 04:49, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per nominator: " I'm more or less fine with the article at this point".Tiny Particle (talk) 18:24, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This page helps to keep things in order. 131.228.2.21 (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, let this ongoing topic develop before assessing a delete vote. Yug (talk) 🐲 10:23, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I also changed my mind just like the nominator User:Curbon7. Tradedia^talk 12:14, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The list of generals killed in this combat are well noted by several verified sources. In many cases these generals or admiral deaths have been confirmed by both sides, though exact dates and locations may not be as precise. Given other list pages like List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War follow a similar vein and I believe this page should remain. Words in the Wind(talk) 21:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Given the fact that this article relates to a developing event or series of events, additional time may be useful to evaluate whether these developments impact determinations of those who have previously participated in this discussion. BD2412 T 22:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BD2412 T 22:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - it demonstrates military capabilities and weaknesses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.68.20 (talk) 04:04, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Page has been improved since nomination, and now as the situation has progressed, there has been more media coverage discussing the issue of Russian general deaths, rather than just one-off death reports for individual generals. Thus, there is ample evidence that this has now become a topic of its own, at least within the coverage of the war. --benlisquare_T•C•E 00:30, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and move per WP:HEY. Fairly and squarely meets WP:NLIST, and has constantly been improved, which ought to give confidence of further improvement continuing. Move to cover commanders of equivalent rank a bit lower than general. Hyperbolick (talk) 09:56, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A combination of listcruft, WP:NOTNEWS and WP:OR in light of people's obsession with this war. Notice how there are no similar lists for much bigger conflicts?--Catlemur (talk) 11:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment to briefly reply to your last point. The main reason why there are so few similar lists is generals tend not to be killed in such a significant number and certainly not in such a time frame (there is this list article and it looks like less than half died from hostile fire!); the number of Russian generals killed in such a short span is truly unprecedented--"shocking" according to a source quoted above. This is why we see the group/set as per WP:NLIST being talked about in so many sources. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 12:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:NLIST, was nominated when it was weak, has since been improved, even the nominator changed their vote to keep, so I think they should have withdrawn it. People are saying it's TOO SOON, but it's not, as the list meets the criteria as it stands, so I disregard that argument. I think a lot of people voted delete before the article reached it's current quality CT55555 (talk) 13:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: the rapid loss of Russian (and affiliated) leadership has been extremely notable compared to other conflicts, especially in the limited breadth of time. The conflict will be studied by historians and various media for a longtime to come from many perspectives, and the loss of so many flag officers will be first mentioned in the opening pages/minutes of most.--LeyteWolfer (talk) 13:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: agreeing with the general sentiment that the absence of such list for other modern conflicts is indication that losing that many that fast is notable JidGom (talk) 13:17, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I change my vote to Keep. Stuff has changed since I voted for delete. Now that notabilty is established, it now passes the notabilty guidelines. Felicia (talk) 14:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Third Russian general killed in Ukraine 'in sign of weakness among Putin's forces'". The Independent. 2022-03-11. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ Shoaib, Alia. "How the Russian officer elite is being decimated in Ukraine – 9 generals and commanders who were killed in combat". Business Insider. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ "Which Russian generals have been killed in Ukraine? The key military commanders Putin has lost". inews.co.uk. 2022-03-09. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ Osipovich, Alan Cullison and Alexander (2022-03-11). "Russian General Is Killed in Ukraine as Airstrikes Intensify". Wall Street Journal. ISSN 0099-9660. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ Palmer, Ewan (2022-03-09). "These top Russian commanders have been killed so far, according to Ukraine". Newsweek. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ "Russian generals face peril as Ukraine invasion intensfies". France 24. 2022-03-08. Retrieved 2022-03-14.
^ "War in Ukraine: Fourth Russian general killed - Zelensky". BBC News. 2022-03-16. Retrieved 2022-03-18.
^ Pancevski, William Mauldin, Thomas Grove and Bojan (2022-03-16). "Four Russian Generals Killed in Three Weeks Show Moscow's Vulnerabilities in Ukraine". Wall Street Journal. ISSN 0099-9660. Retrieved 2022-03-18.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
^ Novelly, Thomas (2022-03-17). "What the Reported Deaths of 4 Russian Generals Mean About the Fighting in Ukraine". Military.com. Retrieved 2022-03-18.
^ Cooper, Helene; Barnes, Julian E.; Schmitt, Eric (2022-03-16). "As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2022-03-18.
^ "List of U.S. general officers and flag officers killed in World War II", Wikipedia, 2022-03-13, retrieved 2022-03-14
^ Video: Retired Gen. Petraeus explains how Ukrainians are taking out Russian generals - CNN Video, retrieved 2022-03-20
^ Benjakob, Omer (9 January 2020). "Why Wikipedia is Much More Effective Than Facebook at Fighting Fake News". Haaretz. Archived from the original on 20 June 2020. Retrieved 26 April 2020.

[1] "Third Russian general killed in Ukraine 'in sign of weakness among Putin's forces'". The Independent. 2022-03-11. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[2] Shoaib, Alia. "How the Russian officer elite is being decimated in Ukraine – 9 generals and commanders who were killed in combat". Business Insider. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[3] "Which Russian generals have been killed in Ukraine? The key military commanders Putin has lost". inews.co.uk. 2022-03-09. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[4] Osipovich, Alan Cullison and Alexander (2022-03-11). "Russian General Is Killed in Ukraine as Airstrikes Intensify". Wall Street Journal. ISSN 0099-9660. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[5] Palmer, Ewan (2022-03-09). "These top Russian commanders have been killed so far, according to Ukraine". Newsweek. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[6] "Russian generals face peril as Ukraine invasion intensfies". France 24. 2022-03-08. Retrieved 2022-03-14.

[7] "War in Ukraine: Fourth Russian general killed - Zelensky". BBC News. 2022-03-16. Retrieved 2022-03-18.

[8] Pancevski, William Mauldin, Thomas Grove and Bojan (2022-03-16). "Four Russian Generals Killed in Three Weeks Show Moscow's Vulnerabilities in Ukraine". Wall Street Journal. ISSN 0099-9660. Retrieved 2022-03-18.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[9] Novelly, Thomas (2022-03-17). "What the Reported Deaths of 4 Russian Generals Mean About the Fighting in Ukraine". Military.com. Retrieved 2022-03-18.

[10] Cooper, Helene; Barnes, Julian E.; Schmitt, Eric (2022-03-16). "As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2022-03-18.

[11] "List of U.S. general officers and flag officers killed in World War II", Wikipedia, 2022-03-13, retrieved 2022-03-14

[12] Video: Retired Gen. Petraeus explains how Ukrainians are taking out Russian generals - CNN Video, retrieved 2022-03-20

[13] Benjakob, Omer (9 January 2020). "Why Wikipedia is Much More Effective Than Facebook at Fighting Fake News". Haaretz. Archived from the original on 20 June 2020. Retrieved 26 April 2020.

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@@ Line 42: / Line 42: @@
 ::'''Keep''' Since my initial vote, the article has been greatly cleaned up and its plain that there has been substantial media coverage on the deaths of Russian generals during the 2022 Invasion of Ukraine. I believe that special attention still needs to be paid to verifiability, but I think this meets NLIST. Also, I think [[WP:RAPID]] can be reasonably applied to this list. [[User:Spirit of Eagle|Spirit of Eagle]] ([[User talk:Spirit of Eagle|talk]]) 00:03, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 *'''Delete''' far too short for a standalone list and already covered in [[Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War]]. At least one of the entries is referenced to a claim by Ukrainian intelligence and may not be accurate. '''''[[User:Hut 8.5|<span style="color:#b50000;">Hut 8.5</span>]]''''' 08:51, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' It fails [[WP:NOTNEWS]] and [[WP:NLIST]]. I mean who puts this shit on Wikipedia? I mean five generals, that is scant information for a list. [[User:Felicia777|Felicia]] [[User Talk:Felicia777|(talk)]] 17:31, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
+<s>*'''Delete''' It fails [[WP:NOTNEWS]] and [[WP:NLIST]]. I mean who puts this shit on Wikipedia? I mean five generals, that is scant information for a list. [[User:Felicia777|Felicia]] [[User Talk:Felicia777|(talk)]] 17:31, 15 March 2022 (UTC)</s>
 *'''Rename''' to [[List of Russian commanders killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine]] and expand to include other high-ranking Russian officers KIA. [https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russian-officer-elite-decimated-9-who-were-killed-in-combat-2022-3 This article] can potentially serve as a source.--[[User:Kober|Kober]]<sup>[[User talk:Kober|Talk]]</sup> 20:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 *:'''Comment''' Even if the article is kept, the source you provide cant be used totally since is '''ONCE AGAIN''' claiming the death of Magomed Tushaev (a proven claim/fake), citing The Daily Mail, a deprecetad source, the first ever "unreliable source" for use as a reference on the English Wikipedia.<ref>{{Cite news |url=https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-why-wikipedia-is-much-more-effective-than-facebook-at-fighting-fake-news-1.8378622 |title=Why Wikipedia is Much More Effective Than Facebook at Fighting Fake News |newspaper=Haaretz |date=9 January 2020 |last1=Benjakob |first1=Omer |access-date=26 April 2020 |archive-date=20 June 2020 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200620203412/https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-why-wikipedia-is-much-more-effective-than-facebook-at-fighting-fake-news-1.8378622 |url-status=live }}</ref>. [[User:Mr.User200|Mr.User200]] ([[User talk:Mr.User200|talk]]) 13:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 106: / Line 106: @@
 * Strong '''Keep''': the rapid loss of Russian (and affiliated) leadership has been extremely notable compared to other conflicts, especially in the limited breadth of time. The conflict will be studied by historians and various media for a longtime to come from many perspectives, and the loss of so many flag officers will be first mentioned in the opening pages/minutes of most.--[[User:LeyteWolfer|LeyteWolfer]] ([[User talk:LeyteWolfer|talk]]) 13:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * '''Keep''': agreeing with the general sentiment that the absence of such list for other modern conflicts is indication that losing that many that fast is notable [[User:JidGom|JidGom]] ([[User talk:JidGom|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
+*I change my vote to '''Keep'''. Stuff has changed since I voted for delete. Now that notabilty is established, it now passes the notabilty guidelines. [[User:Felicia777|Felicia]] [[User Talk:Felicia777|(talk)]] 14:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 {{reflist-talk}}