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February 21

banned user

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Three bob

The Sun on Sunday of 4 February reports that a charity worker found an "1813 silver 15 pence from New South Wales" in a donation. This is expected to sell for around seven thousand pounds as "Few examples have survived as most were melted down in the 1840s." I assume there was a mint in Sydney (there was one in Perth - don't know if it's still functioning) and if they did strike three shilling coins, why did they do it only to melt them down shortly after? 2A00:23D0:CC2:801:417D:F1D9:7A87:BF7D (talk) 10:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"After gold was discovered in Australia, the Royal Mint opened branches in Australia. The Sydney Mint opened in 1854 and issued half sovereigns and sovereigns, with the Melbourne Mint beginning production in 1872." See History of Australian currency. So I doubt they we minted in Australia. (EDIT) The Perth Mint opened in 1899. 41.23.55.195 (talk) 10:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact they were not minted in the normal sense. They were "drops" punched out of Spanish silver dollars. They were demonetized in 1829 and I would guess that their relative purity (.903) lead to their melting. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17316.html 41.23.55.195 (talk) 10:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought this was just reporting by a journalist too young to remember pre-decimal currency. They're talking about fifteen old pennies, but that sum of money was never described as anything other than "one shilling and threepence" - or so I thought. Looking at the link, the narrative is indeed "one shilling and threepence", but the coin actually says "FIFTEEN PENCE", no doubt because it's easier to punch "FIFTEEN PENCE" than it is to punch "ONE SHILLING AND THREEPENCE." 95.144.174.15 (talk) 13:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, more commonly "one and three", the shillings and pence being understood. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:30, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but but on a coin you must necessarily be precise - you wouldn't want to tender one of these and have the shopkeeper tell you it's only worth one and three farthings (1 3/4d) ! 2A00:23C7:2B14:A201:A8E3:4FF1:EAA2:29F9 (talk) 14:43, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 22

Detail

Hello. The link below shows a summary of a knockout match of the old Champions Cup 1982-83, between Olympiakos and Hamburg, result 4-0 for the Germans then winners of the competition. The images are not of good quality, the scoreboard then never being framed. But is it possible that the team names and scorers were written on the scoreboard in English, and not in Greek, as this competition (like others of this calibre) was international? Thank you very much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01gAnZ3KMg&t=52s 2.32.203.113 (talk) 15:46, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The venue of Olympiacos F.C. is Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium (rebuilt in 2004), Piraeus. The videoed game in 1982 followed a crowding tragedy with 21 victims in 1981. I have not found an image of the old stadium scoreboard of 1982 but would expect that the game was relayed via the Eurovision (network) to other countries e.g. Germany where names and scores could be superimposed by a local broadcaster. Philvoids (talk) 21:58, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that the question is about the physical scoreboard in the stadium; what did people see who were present in the stadium? --Lambiam 22:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was a match of the old Champions Cup (today's European Champions League) played at the Olympic Stadium in Athens. Yes, the question is about the scoreboard: I think that since it was an international match, the names of the teams and the scorers were transcribed on the scoreboard in English language.

There may have been enough room for displaying the name in both the Greek and the Latin alphabet:

HAMBURG OLYMPIAKOS

1 : 0

ΑΜΒΟΥΡΓΟ ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΟΣ

--Lambiam --Lambiam 12:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the OPs wording "team names and scorers asks to see the names both of the teams and of individual scoring players. Updating a display of so much information, probably also showing match time, referee calls and timeouts is the work of a dedicated commentator and would be limited by the display technology of 40 years ago, probably paid for by prominent advertising. Philvoids (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was just the time when such technology became available; see Scoreboard § Technology. --Lambiam 23:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 23

Do you know what the former company “Oswego” is?

Hello. There is a former company named “Oswego” in a small town in Texas (part of the county where Sugar Bend is, Fort Bend). Does anyone who live in its county seat or internationally have some information? Any answers are highly appreciated. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:20, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean Sugar Land? Our article on Richmond, Texas, contains the unsourced cryptic sentence: "It is home to the founders of the former company Oswego, Nick Mide and Trace." Using this as a basis for a further Google search gives many hits, which, however, are all exact or paraphrased repetitions of this one sentence. When the statement was added in June 2022 by an anonymous IP, the formulation was, "it is home of the legendary Oswego owners Nick and mide". This unsourced addition was forthwith reverted, but re-added in the next edit in the form "it is home of the legendary founders of the former company Oswego, Nick Trace and Mide" by another anonymous IP, geolocating to almost the same spot as the first one. Again immediately reverted, the second IP then inserted the claim in its present form. As far as I could determine this, the repetitions on other web sites date from after this insertion. It does not smell good. --Lambiam 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Try look up the both IP’s location in this and check their edit history. That might help. (please don’t look up my IP, only look up the 2 IPs that made that claim). When you finish looking up both of them, let me know. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 10:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any answers? 2.103.231.248 (talk) 13:04, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Give us time, IP. We're all volunteers here, and actually there is no 'here' – we all do this in moments snatched from our Real Lives. Check back in a day or two. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.45.226 (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK I will. I will check bay in a day or two to see if someone had looked up both of the IPs that made that (what I claim fictional) “former” company Oswego. Also that I claim fictional is the founders’ names, which are “Nick Trace and Mide” These 2 IPs made it according to the reply made by Lambian. Maybe try contacting Snopes. after you looked up those IP locations (link in earlier reply, also please do not look up my IP!) and looked up their edit history. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 15:52, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is it exactly that you're wanting us to do? The IPs in question didn't make any other edits. The minor bit of vandalism that was missed for quite some time has now been reverted. Thank you for bringing attention to it. --Onorem (talk) 17:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The IPs geolocate to the USA. Don't you think the House Oversight Committee should open an investigation? They have the power to subpoena Comcast Cable to produce more information. No one is above the law; with a dogged determination and some luck the malfeasants can be brought to justice so that they will not escape their deserved punishment. --Lambiam 17:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You checked their edit history. You checked their geolocation. I found their geolocation is Houston and Rosenberg. Before you contact Snopes, block those 2 IPs and choose your reason. Now try contacting Snopes if the claim is real or not. 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:05, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edits are 2 years old. Blocking now would be as pointless as this conversation is. There is also no need to 'contact Snopes.' If someone tries to add it again in the future, they'll either have a reliable source or they won't. If they don't, hopefully it will be caught and deleted more quickly this time. --Onorem (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did they notice it on the administrators noticeboard? Or any other source from Wikipedia, such as the help desk, Teahouse and so on? 2.103.231.248 (talk) 19:58, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no ongoing problem. Why are you so determined that we should waste time pursuing what appears to be a 2-year old minor prank? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.45.226 (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 24

Khattan

Hello geographers: can anyone help settle what province Khattan is in, and maybe help improve the article? Please see the recent history for the dispute. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google maps places it firmly in the Punjab province of Pakistan, almost on the border with India, hundreds of miles distant from Balochistan. OpenStreetMap concurs, --Lambiam 17:34, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lambiam, can you please look at what SheriffIsInTown wrote on User talk:Prof.Nasir Jamal, and comment? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps remained incomplete, with the feature to add places being discontinued. Notably, there exists a Khattan in Kachhi District of Balochistan province as well. You can refer to the census data for Kachhi District here. Additionally, I am currently in the process of crafting an article for Khattan in Punjab. This endeavor will require thorough research to ensure the article's completeness, as I am committed to avoiding incomplete articles. I am also available to enhance the existing Khattan article. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 21:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So there are several populated places named Khattan in Pakistan. The Punjabi one is listed in the census data for Bahawalnagar District here. There appears to also be a village Khattan, Chhatroo tehsil, Kishtwar District, Jammu division. Quite possibly there are even more places that go by that name. Rather than edit-warring about which is the true Khattan, we can have separate articles on these places and a disambiguation page. --Lambiam 04:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is the solution, we are opting for. The editor engaged in edit warring believed that their Khattan was the only one, and thus, the article contained incorrect information. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 05:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 25

Raising Awareness of a Franchise Brand

Hello, I was wondering if there was anything I could do in my power to make people in my area more aware of the existence of a particular franchise? I have seen this franchise in a US tv show, and I am obsessed with it. It would be a dream come true for this franchise to open a store or stores near me, as I have always wanted to visit it, but the distance is too great.

My main idea at this point is to find some way of making influential people aware of this business. I want to communicate it to them so that they will consider it when thinking about becoming a franchise owner or increasing their existing portfolio. I was wondering if there was a place on the web where this kind of person can be found. That way, I could begin to try to get them interested in the franchise. Obviously, they would make the final decision about what they want to invest in, but I would at least like them to know that this business is a possible option.

So, if any of you have any leads for this kind of thing, then I would greatly appreciate that, and my mission to bring this franchise to Glasgow could then be completed.

NOTE: I am not asking for the ability to control and manipulate people, I am only asking for ways to present my ideas to them. They will always have the freedom to choose if they are interested in them or not.Pablothepenguin (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should contact this franchise and inquire whether they have any plans to become present in your city. You could encourage people to contact the franchise and enter into business with them, by lobbying or whatever. Who do You mean by 'influential people'? --Ouro (blah blah) 15:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wealthy people with enough money to open franchises as well as people who already have experience with this. I am not rich enough to open a franchise myself. The main difficulty is finding these people. Pablothepenguin (talk) 16:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Look who's got larger companies, better houses, better cars in the neighbourhood? Who runs for local offices? Who LOOKS like they're wealthy? Ask around? Maybe someone's refurbishing old factory buildings and turning them into upscale lofts in your area? That kind of thing. I guess. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was hoping there was a way to find people like this on the internet. I’m not very good at face to face conversations. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I asked before, where on the internet do I find the right sort of people for my purposes? There has got be some places online where owners of existing franchises in my country can be found.

This whole darn thing makes little sense to me in any case. It should not be this hard to find franchise owners and potential franchise owners. I’m getting very annoyed now that I can’t figure this out. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No reason to get annoyed. I cannot think of an approach that can plausibly help you to reach your goal. BTW, have you researched the franchisor? Do they have any locations in your country? Do you have a basis for the supposition that operating a franchise near where you are located is a commercially interesting proposition? --Lambiam 21:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don’t be that way. There must be a way somewhere. Of course opening a franchise would work. We don’t have anything like this franchise in my area. There is a huge gap in the market for it. Lots of people would love it, and it would get the high levels of popularity it gets in the US here. I did my research just fine.

Please could someone enlighten me who knows what they are talking about? Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:50, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One need not be influential to become a franchisee. Most business or franchise owners are not wealthy or influential people, or if they are, they did not start out that way. One just needs the wherewithal to operate a business, the ability to draw up a well-researched business plan showing a good likelihood of success and the skill to negotiate with the franchisor and a bank. Given a good business plan and a cooperating franchisor, there will be banks providing a loan under reasonable conditions. So you need to find people with an entrepreneurial spirit looking for an opportunity. Wealthy people have already found their opportunities. Some articles on becoming a franchise owner: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. --Lambiam 11:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some important caveats to your input:

1. I live in Scotland. I doubt this really matters but it should borne in mind.

2. Links 2 & 3 don't work.

3. My main obstacle is finding hang out spots on the web for such people. I seek the sort of place where stuff I post can be read by millions. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I realized you live in Scotland and checked for specific legal issues before responding, but according to our article there are no franchise-specific laws in the United Kingdom. All these links work for me; in any case, you already get a reasonably thorough overview from the other three. If by "such people" you mean wealthy influential people, I suspect that that is not the best angle. Does the chain have a subreddit, such as, for example, Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen? You might see if there are fellow townspeople who share your obsession and are willing to work on a plan to raise awareness. --Lambiam 19:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I can confirm that links 3 and 4 are returning 403 Forbidden errors. Are they geographically restricted perhaps? I don’t have a VPN to check, so I don’t know.

Anyway, I was wondering if there were any obvious online places where small business owners and similar folks can be found? That would help a lot. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is with the long pauses in activity on this desk? There hasn’t been a single word in over 15 hours. People need to wake up if progress is to be made. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe because (a) people need to sleep and (b) we have run out of things to tell you. Unfortunately, the World works the way as it does, not how we would like it to. Maybe some responders would have more interest if you told us what franchise you were talking about – why should anyone care about progress being made if they don't know what is to be progressed? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.126.225.254 (talk) 01:36, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am currently in the process of looking for places to find relevant people. In particular, I’ve been poking around Reddit for a couple of days now. I will keep looking. Also, I’ll think about how to clarify what kind of franchise I’m after. I might post something about that later today, if I’m not too busy. Pablothepenguin (talk) 08:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The irony of someone complaining about people not responding to their vague questions fast enough by saying "I might post something about that later today, if I’m not too busy."--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point, actually. I would like to say that I am talking about something that we don’t really have in my area. I refer, of course, to frozen yogurt. I think that this could be a popular thing here. Although we do have a few dessert places in our area, we don’t have frozen yogurt in particular. It would be a nice thing to have, especially in the summer months.

Now, it won’t be an easy thing to introduce. After all, Italian style ice cream is very popular in Greater Glasgow and Ayrshire, and Galloway dairies also exist, but sometimes it’s good to be different for once. It would be nice to break up the monotony of our existing dessert options. By necessity, such a thing would work best in Glasgow itself, and maybe Edinburgh, so independent dessert parlours in rural areas need not be too concerned. Quite easily I believe my intentions are pure, and the joy that will be brought to people by these ideas will surely justify the expense. I will be patient, and I will never give up, even if it takes years. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:09, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It strikes me that it would be far easier to persuade local producers to make, and existing dessert/ice-cream parlours to offer, frozen yoghurt as an addition to their menu than to introduce a separate new franchise specialising in a comestible hitherto unfamiliar to the Hibernian populace. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.126.225.254 (talk) 15:33, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The machinery and ingredients used by franchises may be required to be purchased from specific suppliers that are not available in your country. It is unlikely that the company would grant a single franchise location so far outside of their usual area as the increased costs and difficulties would hinder profitability. The suggestion of a local company adding frozen yogurt to their offerings seems more likely to succeed.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For many years there was a frozen yoghurt stall in Hempstead Shopping Centre, Kent. I've no idea if it was a franchise or an independent business. It had to move to make way for extended seating at a Greggs. Your idea is not therefore novel in the UK as a whole, but I know nothing about the business other than a happy customer. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:32, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In reply to the above comments, I note that the IP user has gotten my country wrong, so I will consider their comment to not be trustworthy. Besides, Martin of Sheffield says that the idea is not novel in the UK anyway. I would also like to respond to the comments of Khajidha by saying that the franchise I’m interested in does actually have a few locations further afield. In particular, it has a few in the Middle East which is further away from the US than I am. Therefore, they probably have a way to handle this. I don’t think their frozen yogurt machines are that specialist anyway, and they could probably ship them to Scotland and convert them to 230v 50Hz without much difficulty. Finally, I don’t think adapting an existing business would work, as a big part of the franchise is its customer experience which isn’t something we have here. I’m talking about things such as mascots, kids parties, and their variety of flavours. Although we have these things individually, we don’t have anyone who does all of them at once. Pablothepenguin (talk) 17:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to add that the franchise has some other unique aspects that we don’t have. It takes a very cutesy approach to guest experience, and it places a great emphasis on putting smiles on customers’ faces. It is known to have a bright open plan layout in its stores, with a generous amount of space. But perhaps above all, the thing that it does that is the most important is use a self-service approach. Customers in this case can dispense their own frozen yogurt and bring it to the check out. There it will be weighed, as it is priced by weight. There is also an area with sauce and rows of toppings. This is quite different to any dessert place near me. Therefore, I cannot and will not rely on existing businesses near me, and I certainly won’t be making suggestions to them. Pablothepenguin (talk) 18:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is your shining example by any chance Menchie's Frozen Yogurt? I see that there are an amazing number of US-based frozen yogurt chains that use the self-serve model: next to Menchie's also 16 Handles, Orange Leaf Frozen Yogurt, Sweet Frog, TCBY, Tutti Frutti Frozen Yogurt, Yogurt Mountain, Yogurtland, and Yumilicious. Whose approaches will appeal most to Edinbronian and Glaswegian customers? Time for a study tour. --Lambiam 21:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most soft ice machines, which are readily available on the market in a range of capacities (and prices), can also dispense frozen yoghurt.^[6][7][8] I don't immediately see why an enthusiastic entrepreneur would prefer to become a franchisee to a locally unknown overseas franchisor and not simply begin as an independent business (with the potential, in case of overwhelming success, of expanding into a national chain). --Lambiam 20:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that I had Menchie’s in mind. I would also like to state that there will be people in my country who know about them due to Undercover Boss. Also, spreading knowledge about this chain was the precise reason why I started this thread in the first place. That is what I need help doing. And, I will remind you of the fact that I specifically said I wanted nothing to do with local business. The fact they are not major chains yet proves they are not good enough. Also they STILL don’t have the mascots, open plan layouts or self-serve methodology that are as yet missing from my wonderful nation. Also, last time I checked, becoming a franchisee is surely cheaper and easier than starting an ENTIRE new business from scratch. Also, I specifically sought ways to get in contact with entrepreneurs about this, and you have still failed to give even the slightest hint at where they congregate online. I am simply trying to end a personal injustice that I cannot wrap my head around. I want answers. Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's a programme that offers "support from like-minded entrepreneurs" [9]. 2A00:23C7:9C8C:4E01:8C:BE26:D6:E6AF (talk) 16:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, but I don’t know how that could help with my situation. Pablothepenguin (talk) 17:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am still waiting to hear of online places where potential franchisees hang out. My patience is being severely tested and I am getting very annoyed now. Could someone please resolve this situation? Thank you. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still waiting… Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:53, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know whether there are places where entrepreneurs congregate online. If there are, I don't know about them. I also don't know how to search for them. --Lambiam 23:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok then, in that case, I will try asking on a Subreddit. I will also think of other possible actions for me to take. I will try to come up with something by the end of tomorrow. Pablothepenguin (talk) 00:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am still trying Reddit. I am also diversifying my search. So, would anyone know a way to quickly get the word out about Menchie’s to as many people in my area as possible? Thank you. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:39, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 26

Presidential legitimacy and diplomatic relations

In 2020, US and EU announced they don't consider Lukashenko as the legitimate Belarusian president (while Josep Borrell added that the 2020 elections are fraudulent). Logically, this would entail severing/suspension of diplomatic relations with Belarus, because, if I understand correctly, you can't maintain relations with country whose leader is considered illegitimate (and by continuing relations the legitimacy is logically reaffirmed rather than denied). Why relations aren't generally severed/suspended with such countries on that basis? Brandmeister^talk 19:11, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Realpolitik? --Lambiam 21:03, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This opinion piece from Chatham House has some discussion of such issues [10]. It suggests the policy has been fractured and gives reason for this but I'd note it also suggests some countries have in some way limited diplomatic contact because of the issue, whether it's ambassadors leaving because they did not wish to present their credentials to Lukashenko (France), ambassadors for some countries and the EU being asked to leave, and ambassadors being rejected (US). I'm not really sure what the US ambassador planned to do i.e. whether they were going to present their credentials or refuse to. Our Foreign relations of Belarus and Belarus–European Union relations articles seem somewhat limited on recent events but Belarus–United States relations is a little better although still lacks info on the supposed ambassador being rejected. Nil Einne (talk) 05:37, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boxing stance

My question is about the change in stance by boxers from the "knuckles forward, torso back" approach to the "knuckles out, torso forward" more popular today. Our article at Boxing#Marquess_of_Queensberry_rules_(1867) provides a suggested explanation, albeit without a supporting reference. They suggest it was due to the addition of large boxing gloves (as opposed to bare knuckles): "Because less defensive emphasis was placed on the use of the forearms and more on the gloves, the classical forearms outwards, torso leaning back stance of the bare knuckle boxer was modified to a more modern stance in which the torso is tilted forward and the hands are held closer to the face." Okay, I guess, but I'm not sure I buy it. I don't know of any other martial art where the combatants take that odd knuckles forward stance. Even in cases where the hands are kept further from the head, the knuckles are typically facing out (i.e. to the sides so that the pinkie finger side of your hands are facing the opponent). Even if the addition of gloves is what caused the change ^{[citation needed]} what was the purpose of the knuckles forward affair? Matt Deres (talk) 19:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s a great question, and something I’ve been wondering about for many years. Hopefully, someone will have an answer. Viriditas (talk) 00:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any existing film footage of this stance, or is it only in still-picture posing? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 27

Reliable sources on Wikipedia: Writings by professional geographers?

Would writings by professional geographers, including from the early 20th century, be considered reliable sources for Wikipedia purposes? 172.56.187.204 (talk) 03:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not so much about the credentials of the writers themselves, it's about where their writings are published. An article by a professional geographer on a self-published blog would not be a reliable source. The same article by the same writer published in a journal or book would be a reliable source. --Viennese Waltz 06:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about if one of their books is cited, with this book itself having an extensive bibliography at the end of it? 172.56.187.204 (talk) 07:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A self-published article by a subject matter expert can be used as a source, with caution. Graham87 (talk) 10:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Something like that would be fine, if an independent second source could be found that says exactly the same thing. This is called backing up the first source. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:40, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geography is a huge topic, covering many subfields, some of which have advanced tremendously since the early 20th century. Without stating what the geographer is being cited for, it isn't possible to make any sensible comment on reliability. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a page dedicated to such questions: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. As is stated there:

Context is important: supply the source, the article it is used in, and the claim it supports.

If the expert is notable, you can turn the point into an unassailable factual statement by presenting it not as a fact but as an opinion, using a formulation such as,

However, Cathy Whitlock has argued that the reported radiocarbon ages from terrestrial pollen concentrates in Yellowstone Lake are much too old.^[123]

--Lambiam 08:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 29

BBC radio archives

Hello, I'm looking for information about archival WWII-era, BBC radio recordings consisting of four separate radio programs read by E. Graham Howe. The lectures or shows were titled "Cross Purposes", "Create and Share", "How Long", and "The Great Unseen". There is evidently information about these BBC radio shows in the book Where this War Hits You: Four Broadcast Talks (1941) OCLC 2174883, which represents an edited transcript in book form. I'm hoping the book also includes more information about the broadcast. Obviously, I do not have access to this work. What's odd, is that the four shows were supposed to be somewhat controversial, but I can find nothing about the controversy. I'm wondering if the chaos of this war-time era is responsible for the dearth of information on this subject. So I guess what I'm asking is, can anyone find anything else about these BBC radio broadcasts by Howe? Internet Archive has a few words here and there, but not much I can add to the article on Howe. On Google Books, I noticed at least one major work about BBC radio during WWII, but nothing about Howe. Even stranger, I can find nothing regarding his death in 1975, neither an obituary nor a death notice nor a courtesy notice in a professional journal, which is also very odd. Viriditas (talk) 08:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A bit of synthesis/OR: Graham Howe was inspired by Buddhism and knew the (German-born) Buddhist monk Nyanaponika Thera personally.^[11] Part of his approach to dealing with difficult and distressing situations in which one may feel helpless was rooted in Buddhist spirituality, and has been described as trying to "synthesize Christianity and Buddhism".^[12] If his lectures were interpreted by some doctrinal Christians as engaging in such synthesis, they may have been alarmed. Another possible point of contention may have been his advocacy of "peaceful acceptance", an "acceptance of both sides", as recorded in his earlier book War Dance,^[13][14] which, like Where this War Hits You, was based on a series of lectures. --Lambiam 11:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, they may not have been considered particularly notable at the time. I imagine that there are a very large number of wartime BBC radio broadcasts that escaped contemporary critical comment. Alansplodge (talk) 13:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right, but that’s why I was even looking in the first place. Several sources asserted they were notable broadcasts that generated controversy, yet I can find nothing. I suspect the book says something, but what I really wanted to do was to listen to the archival lectures, which I was hoping the BBC had put online. Viriditas (talk) 22:09, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, my comments sound rather flippant in retrospect, but my point was that in wartime, the BBC broadcast a huge number of lectures (what we might now call podcasts) by some of the most eminent minds in the country, from archbishops to trade unionists, so one being unremarked upon might not be too surprising.

However, a bit of digging reveals that there is a brief book review in The Theosophist; Vol. 63, No. 10, July 1942 p. 320 (81/89 of the pdf file).

A Google search result shows that the book is also mentioned in War Aims and Peace Aims V by Helen Lidell. My JSTOR account doesn't allow me to see more than the front page, but someone at WikiProject Resource Exchange might be able to help. That's all I could find, except that the British Library must have a copy of the book, but how you would access that, I don't know. Alansplodge (talk) 23:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I was able to access the JSTOR article through the Wikipedia Library, but it only says:

"Individual and shared creativeness" is the phrase used by Professor Huxley for the motive force of the new democratic society in the picture he draws in the last of his broadcast talks. [footnote 2: Democracy Marches. By Julian Huxley. 1941. (London, Chatto & Windus, 126 pp. 3s. 6d.)] The biologist and publicist is here supported in almost identical terms by a psychologist, Dr. Graham Howe, in another series of broadcasts.

Alansplodge (talk) 23:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I take it that you've seen The Druid of Harley Street: The Spiritual Psychology of E. Graham Howe which has a lengthy preview on Google Books? The forward and the first chapter have some biographical details. It sounds as though he was at odds with the mainstream psychiatric community, which might explain why they didn't mark his passing. Alansplodge (talk) 23:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I have access to all of the sources mentioned in this discussion, many of which appear in his biography article that I linked to up above. What I’m looking for is access to archival British newspaper indexes which might have noted his passing or the BBC radio lectures. I don’t think any of these are online or easily accessible. Viriditas (talk) 00:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone at WikiProject Resource Exchange might be able to help with newspaper archives. The BBC Sound Archive doesn't seem to be easily accessible to the public. Alansplodge (talk) 12:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March 2

Eastern Townships

Do Quebec's Eastern Townships have English-speaking majority? I once thought that in Sherbrooke, street signs have English text over French text. But do streets there even have official English names? --40bus (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The region is now majority French-speaking, by a wide margin (89%), although there are still some small pockets of English speakers. The demographic shift occurred in the late 1950s and 1960s. Street signs are in French all over Quebec (with Inuktitut and First Nation languages used as well in Native communities). Highway signs and tourist signs sometimes include English translation, but not street signs. In Sherbrooke, the majority of streets in the city center have retained their original name; many of these are English, like King Street, which is the city's main commercial street (now called "la rue King", not "la rue du roi"). Xuxl (talk) 22:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March 3

Newspaper in Emergency

Whenever their has been a big news like 911/ death of Queen etc., newspaper often publish full front page with that news, or at least cover major chunk of front page with that news. What happens to advertisements which were paid to be shown on front page for that day? How do they handle other things? Exclusive Editor _{Notify Me!} 14:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Guessing. I suppose it varies from paper to paper and whether time allows it. I would suggest everything is pushed to subsequent pages, or if it is possible stories are just ditched in favour of the breaking news. As for the ads, I gather either money is returned outright if it's too late to sort of call and clarify the situation, or the advertisers are just reimbursed in some way. Mind you, if a paper is to appear in the newsstands in the morning it still has to be typeset and printed, and that takes time. I guess it all depends how last-minute the news is. If there is enough time the editors are bound to reshuffle everything and keep it tidy, contact advertisers or internally discuss whether to do a full front page big news story or just do half-page reserving the other half for other things like other stories or ads or whatever. --Ouro (blah blah) 16:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked at a newspaper in years,but back when I did it was pretty much unheard of to have ads on the front page. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 00:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Same here. I don't know how it works in Britain, but in America I've never seen ads on the front page. At least not recently. In the 19th century, it was another thing: want-ads and such on the front page were fairly common, intermingled among the news items. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just for fun, I'll point out that one British paper, the (London) Times, used to devote its entire front page to little advertisements. In 1966 they decided that maybe all the other papers had a better idea and started putting news there. --142.112.220.50 (talk) 03:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March 4

@@ Line 188: / Line 188: @@
 :I haven't looked at a newspaper in years,but back when I did it was pretty much unheard of to have ads on the front page. --[[User:Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Khajidha|contributions]]) 00:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 ::Same here. I don't know how it works in Britain, but in America I've never seen ads on the front page. At least ''not recently''. In the 19th century, it was another thing: want-ads and such on the front page were fairly common, intermingled among the news items. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
+:::Just for fun, I'll point out that one British paper, the (London) [[The Times|''Times'']], used to devote its entire front page to little advertisements.  In 1966 they decided that maybe all the other papers had a better idea and started putting news there. --[[Special:Contributions/142.112.220.50|142.112.220.50]] ([[User talk:142.112.220.50|talk]]) 03:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 = March 4 =