Talk:Boston Opera House

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Merge

Propose merging RKO-Keith's Theatre (Boston) into this article. Both articles are about the same theatre with this one being the more complete and titled with the theatre's current name. Markhh (talk) 19:40, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two separate articles may help to distinguish between the different business enterprises that operated at different times in the building. The first, a vaudeville theatre, shortly thereafter became a movie house (RKO), then years later one of the Sack chain of movie theatres. Then the building was used as an opera house, then as a ballet theatre. Similar, but distinctly different uses through the years, overseen by different groups. Also, between 1930s-1960s people called the place "RKO-Keith's" rather than "opera house." Although the building continues to stand, the activities inside it have changed and changed again. M2545 (talk) 22:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 2 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move to Boston Opera House. (non-admin closure) KSFT ^(t|c) 04:15, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Boston Opera House (1980) → Boston Opera House (1928) – When dates are used as disambiguation for buildings, they should be the date the building opened, not the date it was renamed; this title falsely implies that the building was built in 1980, when it is in fact 52 years older than that. oknazevad (talk) 01:26, 2 July 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. — Newslinger talk 02:33, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Oknazevad: I think you meant → Boston Opera House (1928), not → Boston Opera House (1980), and I adjusted your proposal accordingly. —BarrelProof (talk) 06:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you. oknazevad (talk) 10:47, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the building's notability derives from its current use; we wouldn't have an article on an old movie theater. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:12, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But the proposal is not to rename it to RKO Keith's Theater (Boston). It is to use the current name of the facility – but to use the original building date rather than the first of the two reopening dates as the disambiguator. Why 1980 and not 2004 or 1928? It may also be worth considering renaming it simply to Boston Opera House to avoid the problem, if we think that most people looking for the Boston Opera House are looking for this opera house. —BarrelProof (talk) 07:34, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, we have lots of articles on old movie theatres. Tons. They're just as notable as many other theatres, as they were often built just like other ornate theatres of the day. See movie palace. The oppose is based on a fundamental error of fact.

As for just dropping the disambigiator totally, I'm not sure that this building is unambiguously the primary topic of the name, as the previous uses of the name were notable buildings in their own right. Though just shy of 40 years is not what anyone would call recentism, and I could see that as a valid outcome. It would require moving the disambiguation page, though. oknazevad (talk) 10:47, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is also another easily identified reason that the building's notability is not derived from its current use – it hasn't been used as an opera house for nearly thirty years. If its name were derived from its current use, it would be known as the Boston Ballet House (and it might bear the date 2004, because it has been remodeled again since 1990). Also, as evidenced by the dab page at RKO Keith's Theater, there are so many old movie theaters that are considered notable that three of them were named "RKO Keith's Theater". —BarrelProof (talk) 14:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support: There is no perfect title for this topic, but it is ultimately a 1928 theater, not a 1980 theater. Referring to it as a 1980 facility is especially confusing – no one built anything remotely resembling in 1980. Its transition in 1980 was almost certainly a less substantial change to the facility than what happened to it in 2004. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:09, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and Support: Boston Opera House (1928) won’t work because the theatre didn't have that name in that year and there was already another building called Boston Opera House at that time. How about renaming this page B.F. Keith Memorial Theatre (Boston) (its original name) and adding a redirect for “Boston Opera House (1980)” to that page? Markhh (talk) 09:10, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Two cold problem with that. Firstly, there is precedent for a construction date as disambiguation even if the name is from later than the date of construction, as seen a t anfew former Broadway theatres. Secondly, not having the current name for the building be the title, even if disambiguated, seems to run afoul of the spirit of WP:COMMONNAME. While it may not host opera much these days, the building is the Boston Opera House by name, and has been for decades, so it clearly is the common name in the present and needs to be part of the title. oknazevad (talk) 20:39, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per In ictu oculi. This isn't a Frank Lloyd Wright building famous for its architecture; it's famous because it was an opera house and still hosts a ballet. Other disambiguation might yet work (by neighborhood / address?), but "1928" is misleading. SnowFire (talk) 17:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Would support a move to Boston Opera House per Station1's pageview stats below. SnowFire (talk) 18:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Boston Opera House per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:TWODABS. See pageviews. That will solve the year issue. Station1 (talk) 18:12, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for doing the legwork. Would not object (as nominator) to doing away with a disambigiator altogether as clear primary topic. oknazevad (talk) 01:14, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Boston Opera House. It's the clear primary topic for the term, and a hatnote will suffice to point readers to the alternative. Calidum 01:07, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.