Talk:Brisket

UK Reference

The term Pot Roast is almost never used in the UK (except as a reference to a US cooking method), the description listed would normally be defined as a 'stew' although that would normally have the meat cubed before cooking.

I'm not aware of any UK cooking tradition which uses the full cut in this way.

Antsnest (talk) 18:45, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

It's called boiled beef in the UK - not very popular anymore as we now prefer to roast a whole piece in the oven rather than on the stove top, but it's a legit British tradition nonetheless :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.224.244.87 (talk) 00:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

For your consideration.

Below is a video that was produced all about brisket. If you want to add it into the entry feel free. http://feedmebubbe.com/FeedMeBubbe/Download/Feed_Stream23.htm --71.88.106.67 (talk) 00:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

This cannot be a brisket article

This cannot be a brisket article of merit if it does not include any mention of the dry rub seasoning used in most of Texas, cooking it for 12+ hours and using a pit which will recycle the moisture from the fat. The moisture/fat will drip through the brisket, land on the floor of the pit, vaporize due to the heat to moisten the air and thus keep the brisket extra moist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.155.35.130 (talk) 18:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Brisket is eaten everywhere in the world, not just the little part of the united states of america that you happen to be from. The USA-heavy tilt to this article is bad enough already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.164.157 (talk) 11:44, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Merge from Beef Brisket

I propose as an alternative simply redirecting Beef Brisket here. That article is, to be frank, unsourced nonsense, and really, there is nothing of any encyclopedic value to be merged. MCB 17:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

see Talk:Beef Brisket (let's keep it all together in one place)... ++Lar: t/c 05:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I proceeded with the redirect, removed the merge tag here, and added the etymology. MCB 21:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

'Health Benefits' section

I'm removing this. The user, Site400, is extremely reminiscent of linkspam if one looks at his contribs. Anyways, I'm removing the section as it comes directly from the 'reference' he added (fooddatabase.com, a dieting site) and said site is copyrighted, all rights reserved. If the table isn't there the reference should be removed as well, as I am also doing. JoeSmack ^Talk 16:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture?

I see someone has requested a picture for this page. I have a photo of barbecued/smoked beef brisket which might be appropriate, though it would probably need to be cropped. I'm not really sure. If you have an opinion on the matter please check it out here: [1] Thanks -Stardust8212 13:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually here is just the brisket, it's not a great picture but maybe its better than no picture? [2] Stardust8212

The top left corner cropped would be ok; not a great picture IS better than none. thanks for digging up some photographic action for this article. cheers. JoeSmack ^Talk(p-review!) 15:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

What is with the caption on the picture... "beef fecal matter"?? Ploppyc (talk) 19:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Just some vandalism that has now been reverted. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Cooking method change

I'm sorry, i couldn't click away after reading what was written about brisket. I am from Texas, and if there is one thing every good Texas boy knows how to cook, it's a decent brisket. My dad can barely cook water, but he can do brisket. What simply everybody knows, and what had to be reflected here, were two things: the fat and the non-direct cooking method. The fat goes on top, and you don't set the brisket right over the fire, those two things are common to just about every brisket cooked in the south, are about all you need to know about brisket, and amazingly weren't relected. The previous article also made big reference to smoke from drippings on the fire, but drippings smoke even when away from the main heat source, and again, this is bar-b-que, NOT to be cooked directly over the heat source. Otherwise, you're grilling. Guyanakoolaid 08:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Veal

Can anyone tell me the AGE the animal must be before (bovine or veal) it is slaughter for briskets?--Kataquaz (talk) 07:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The age brackets for various types of veal can be found in the veal article. Veal brisket is difficult to find in some regions (including the U.S.), but I have seen it in Europe and had a very nice veal brisket slow-cooked in wine in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. --MCB (talk) 17:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Barbecue Brisket

I am a newbie here so I leave this suggestion with the hopes that someone more experienced will know what to do. Here is a good article on barbecue beef brisket, how it is cooked in Texas and in competition, with a good recipe. http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html Quedude (talk) 18:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:COI problems aside, it's too ad-heavy and should not be included per WP:ELNO #5. --Ronz (talk) 17:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Korea cooking method

How can something be boiled at a "low temperature"? If it has been brought to the boil, then the temperature will be constant whether it is being simmered or boiled hard. Perhaps this should be changed to "boiled gently". --MichaelGG (talk) 07:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Wouldn't "simmered" be more accurate? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 14:27, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 20 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is consensus against the proposed requested move. There is a consensus to move Brisket (dish) to Brisket (Jewish dish). (non-admin closure) qedk (t 桜 c) 11:24, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

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Brisket → Brisket (cut) – I think the dish is the primary topic. I appreciate that you updated the links to the moved article. However, I think this should have been discussed on the talk page first. Brisket (dish) should be the page Brisket. When most English speaking readers are searching Wikipedia for brisket, they are likely to be searching for the dish. The article about the cut of meat is low quality and has a lot of formatting issues (it goes from talking about brisket in different countries and then it talks about the cut of meat itself).

Brisket has been determined by numerous sources, some of which I have cited in the article, to be the “most iconic Jewish meat”, and “an integral part of the Jewish experience”. It is a very important food to those in the Jewish community. It is served for practically every religious holiday and oftentimes for special occasions. Jewish people have eaten it for hundreds of years, including during times of oppression and poverty. I have never heard anyone refer to it as bridket dish, everyone just calls it brisket. And most non-Jews (especially in North America and Europe) also associate brisket with Jewish people and their culture and cuisine. I fear if this page is moved it will cause a lot of confusion for readers and it will push down this culturally important article.

A consensus was not established for this move and it was not discussed prior to this.

I would prefer to return Brisket (dish) to brisket. The other article is about the cut of meat, if people are searching for that they can click the link at the top of the page to the article referring to that. This is the resolution I am seeking. If a compromise is forced, then at worst brisket should be a disambiguation page pointing to both articles, however the article Brisket (dish) deserves to be at [[Brisket.

Therefore I am contesting this move, and I intend to restore the page to it’s former state while we are waiting for the final status to be determined by either a consensus or an administrator.Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 09:40, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I have restored the article to its original location at Brisket per a request at WP:RM/TR. @Paul 012: It was not helpful to make that request while also starting this discussion—one or the other would have been sufficient–but since the original move was contested it is right to restore the status quo and for Yallayallaletsgo to find concensus in favour. PC78 (talk) 11:28, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

PC78, I initiated no discussion. Yallayallaletsgo copied my comments from the technical RM and pasted them here along with my signature. Yallayallaletsgo, please don't do this. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:31, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I've reformatted the move request. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:33, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@Paul 012: Apologies, I merely took the above "post" at face value. @Yallayallaletsgo: Please don't do that, I'm sure you meant no harm but creating a fake comment on behalf of another user is very misleading. PC78 (talk) 11:36, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@PC78: I did not copy and paste this here. When I viewed the notice on the article, I clicked it and it offered an option for me to respond to it. I did not copy this here, and I do not appreciate the accusation. However, I apologize for any confusion and did not mean any harm. Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 06:43, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Yallayallaletsgo: I'm not sure what happened, but with this edit you included a comment by Paul_012 which made it look like they were initiating this RM discussion. PC78 (talk) 11:51, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC specifically has an section explaining how it is Not "what first comes to (your) mind". A Jewish person might be more familiar with the dish, but let's take a look at a few English dictionaries. Merriam-Webster[3], Lexico[4], American Heritage Dictionary[5], Cambridge English Dictionary[6], and Dictionary.com[7] all define brisket as the part of the animal or the cut of meat. None mention the dish. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:40, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
• Move Brisket (dish) to Brisket (Jewish dish) and redirect Brisket (dish) to Brisket: Lots of people eat brisket, and in the United States the most frequently encountered brisket dish among the general public is likely to be a Texas barbeque style that is not particularly Jewish, and the Brisket article discusses brisket dishes in many different cultures. Being especially important to Jews does not make something the primary topic for everyone. The Jewish population appears to be about 20 million out of 8 billion, or one quarter of one percent; probably there is a higher percentage among readers of English, but it is still a relatively small fraction. —BarrelProof (talk) 13:24, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and Paul_012. Wha? Huh? How is this not the primary topic?_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
• Concur with BarrelProof, the new article needs to be under Brisket (Jewish dish) (or just merged into this article). The Jewish dish is already listed under one of many common presentations under § Other variations, and the sources make it clear that the Jewish recipe it's just a traditional way of cooking brisket (the cut of meat), so the cut of meat is the primary topic. – Thjarkur (talk) 20:21, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose proposed move, the cut of beef is clearly the primary topic over a single specific dish. Neutral on any further move or merge as suggested above. PC78 (talk) 21:27, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support, the cut of beef is not the primary topic. The primary topic is brisket, the Jewish dish. I have heard the cut of meat more often referred to as beef brisket than just brisket. I think this should be handeled similarly to the article meat chop.

Furthermore if Brisket (the dish) is not going to be at Brisket, then it should be at Brisket (dish). It should not be at Brisket (Jewish dish), because there are no other articles about any other dishes made with brisket. Jewish brisket was barely discussed in the previous article about the cut of meat, it is clearly notable enough for it’s own article and I don’t think that can be debated. I understand Texas-style brisket is popular as well, however this is most commonly referred to as barbecue brisket, or Texas-style barbecue brisket, or even Texas beef brisket. I have only heard Jewish brisket described as brisket, this it deserves to be at that article. But if it must be moved then it can be moved to Brisket (dish), it should not be moved to (Jewish dish) or merged. It is much too long and significant/notable on it’s own culturally and religiously to be merged.

In addition, Jewish brisket is the most common form of brisket in the United States, surely not in Texas, but Texas is just one state out of 50 States and in the more heavily populated regions of the country (ie. New York and the Northeast corridor, South Florida, California and the West Coast, Chicagoland, etc, brisket is primarily known as a Jewish Food. It is within the Jewish community where it has the most cultural and religious significance. As far as I am aware, is not nearly as important nor as common among Texans (or other people for that matter) than it is amongst Jewish people, many of whom serve it for every holiday, Shabbat, special occasion l, etc. If the article about the cut of meat takes the page Brisket, at the very least a template directing to the dish called brisket, a Jewish dish, should be added (I already added one but I am just implying it should not be removed). Thank you. Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 04:09, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

This seems to be your own proposal, so you should not need to express your support for it; that is implied. —BarrelProof (talk) 12:45, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Actually, there is another article besides Brisket (dish) that discusses dishes made with brisket. It is this article. Most of this article is devoted to that topic. It discusses a Kansas City dish, a Texas dish, a New England dish, a British dish, a German dish, a Jewish dish, a Montreal Jewish dish, a Hong Kong dish, a couple of Korean dishes, a Thai dish, a New Zealand dish popular amongst the Maori, a Vietnamese dish, an Italian dish, and a Pakistani dish. It also has a picture of a Philippine dish. Also, the Texas-style dish is often served outside of Texas. You have not cited any source to support your statistical assertion of brisket dish prevalence, and I doubt it is valid. It is also confined to part of one country. Extensive further brisket research may be needed, and I'm looking forward to some of that soon. —BarrelProof (talk) 12:41, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

All of those dishes are discussed very briefly. Brisket is such an important dish in the Jewish community, it is worthy of its own separate article. It would add undue weight and length of this article. The articles for hamburger and taco and many other dishes made with ground beef are not part of the article ground beef. Furthermore there is also an article for the Texas-style smoked brisket, the smoked brisket article is welcome to be expanded upon but I created it with some sources such as Food and Wine and Texas Monthly.Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 14:05, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - Despite claiming and this is not the primary topic, I don't see any evidence that this is actually the case. That it may or may not be a secondary topic amongst a specific cultural group does not mean it is not the primary topic for the English language as a whole. As an aside, I would have to very much disagree about your argument concerning "Jewish brisket" v. "Texan brisket", as the Texan style brisket you're describing is indeed popular and probably more well known outside of just Texas; that brisket is seen primarily as a Jewish food is a strong claim that would need sources to back up; I've never seen any sources or heard anyone claim that brisket is a food that primarily Jewish, and brisket is quite popular in Georgia and the American Southeast, for example.. - Aoidh (talk) 13:27, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

I can cite many sources claiming that brisket is primarily Jewish, it is a very significant food in the Jewish community and religion. I am too tired to do so right now, but you can google it for the time being and look at Brisket (dish) to learn more and there are many sources cited there.Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 14:05, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that it's not significant to the Jewish community, I'm saying that's not "primarily Jewish" by any means, nor have I found any sources to back up such a claim; in fact the sources I found suggest that it's not. "Primarily Jewish" is quite a strong claim; when you're not quite so tired, I think you need to provide evidence for your claims to convince anyone that this is a move worth making. - Aoidh (talk) 16:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. The rationale for the move and the nominator's duplicate support vote are entirely based on WP:OR. To him, I say where's the beef? Calidum 16:11, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I also support the move of Brisket (dish) as others have suggested. Calidum 02:11, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose and support BarrelProof's proposed move of Brisket (dish) to Brisket (Jewish dish). Or perhaps even something like Brisket in Jewish culture, since it seems like the sources on that topic are using "brisket" to refer to the cut of meat moreso than any one specific method of preparing it. For example, take this quote mentioned in the article: Brisket is implicitly kosher since it's from the front of the animal, and it was cheap because anything that takes a long time to cook and that can’t be grilled has challenges, especially in a restaurant Surely they're not saying brisket the dish is from the front of the animal? Colin M (talk) 21:21, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose and support alternative move of Brisket (dish) to Brisket in Jewish culture. -- Netoholic @ 03:10, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The cut is primary. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:46, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.