Talk:Cheese sandwich

Wikilink question

The reference to gouda links to the article on the country. I'm not sure how to change it myself to link directly to the cheese article.72.84.147.101 (talk) 20:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Plus une intervention, c'est vraiment bon des grill cheeze! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.230.33 (talk) 01:04, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

What no bacon?

What would a grilled cheese sandwich (in anyone's language) be without bacon? Trumpy (talk) 10:16, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

•  Done Drmies (talk) 17:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Minor edit included bacon as part of a list of possible meat additions in the section describing such additions causing the name of the sandwich from "Cheese sandwich" to "Meat and Cheese Sandwich." --Coppercable (talk) 19:30, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Southern variation

I like it with pimiento cheese, and I've heard of this being done in North Carolina, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.223.222.23 (talk) 20:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

This does introduce an interesting point--does this little article deserve some discussion of the types of cheeses typically used? Or is it even important to list American, Cheddar, Swiss, Pimiento, etc. etc., when the kind of cheese used is less important to the definition of "cheese sandwich" than its structure? --Coppercable (talk) 19:32, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I have added the pimento cheese variant. I figure 14 years is sufficient time to discuss the issue. :) –Jcbutler (talk) 20:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was no consensus.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:29, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

---

• support--Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
• no support. Your reasons, Chris? My reason: at least some independent notability is shown by the references, and we're not running out of paper. Drmies (talk) 17:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
• I put the merge templates up. I don't think merely being an open-faced version of the sandwich is enough distinction in topic to separate these into different articles. I think the material can be better covered as a consistent whole. LadyofShalott 03:04, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Lady! I am saddened. "Open-faced" and "covered"--are you turning this into a joking matter? Tsk tsk. Drmies (talk) 03:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose. Summary style content on the various notable cheese sandwiches is fine to include here, but those with independent notability should also live on as stand-alone articles. It's important that we provide in depth and weighty coverage of the gouda and not so gouda aspects of the notable subjects, and that can't be done for every dish that includes bread and cheese in this one article. Fondue? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I support the merging of Cheese dream into this article (Cheese Sandwich). I had never heard of a Cheese Dream before, but after reading the article, I don't see how it's that different from a grilled cheese. In fact, the first sentence of the article is "The cheese dream is an open faced version of the American grilled cheese sandwich..."

By the way, I also think that grilled cheese (maybe including the cheese dream variation) should have it's own article, separate from cheese sandwich. Emika22 (talk) 17:24, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

• No support - Keep as two different articles. They are almost completely different meals. A Grilled Cheese sandwich in North America is a cultural experience that all of us carry from childhood. Having a "See also" at the bottom of each page linking to the other is all that is needed. Kugao (talk) 15:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I support separating Grilled Cheese Sandwich into its own article. Discussion?

• I support merging cheese dream in and separating grilled cheese into it's own article. Alternately, renaming cheese dream to grilled cheese. The standard terminology appears to be grilled cheese for the sandwich, and cheese dream is only used when placing it in a historical context. 207.6.170.138 (talk) 08:25, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

merging / splitting

Okay, wait a minute; this has gotten a bit confusing. There are actually two things being discussed here: one merge and one split. Let me summarize:

1. The original merge proposal was to merge Cheese dream into this article (Cheese Sandwich).

2. The second idea (which I should have proposed in it's own section, sorry) was to split Grilled Cheese into it's own article.

1. So far, the merge has got 3 supports (Chris, myself, LadyofShalott) and 2 opposes (Drmies, ChildofMidnight). It's not exactly an overwhelming landslide of a vote, but unless some more people show some sudden interest in the topic, can we just go ahead and merge them?

2. About splitting Grilled Cheese into it's own article... I support the idea. Any one else, comments for or against? Emika22 (talk) 06:07, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oh please !

Place of origin Originated in United States,

Seriously ??

Maybe you guys can call Tarte Tatin an up side down apple pie , and say it's something you made too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.12.176 (talk) 17:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I concur and have edited accordingly. Grilled cheese.... maaaybe. Cheese sandwich. Find a reference. (You won't.) 219.88.219.36 (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Nonsensical claim?

Mentions that the Holy Sandwich was sold in 2004 and "has not grown mold for 10 years" - this would not make sense if the sandwich was sold the same year it was discovered, as it is not yet 2014. If the sandwich was actually discovered in 2000, the article should reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.164.181 (talk) 21:47, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Excellent point. I updated the language in the article to show that the sandwich was actually "discovered" in 1994, 10 years before it was sold. --Coppercable (talk) 19:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of non-sensical claims, why the whole "history of the cheese sandwhich" section is marketing garbage, when one of the other sources for this post says "Food historians generally agree that cooked bread and cheese combinations [in many different forms, textures and tastes] were ancient foods known across most continents and cultures. The earliest recipes for food like these are found in Ancient Roman cookbooks" Does anyone really think that no one ever ate a cheese sandwich before the time claimed by a cartoon character? 98.121.92.169 (talk) 22:14, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Since Cheese sandwich says that this was originally an open-face sandwich, it seems silly to have the open-face version split into a separate article (currently at Cheese dream). I propose that we merge them into one larger, more informative article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:53, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose I think the cheese dream is a distinct enough topic, looks like a similar discussion from last year closed with no consensus.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
  • I have notified previous participants in the merge discussion.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:45, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose This may be a US/UK language issue, but a sandwich here in the UK almost always means something between two slices of bread rather than something on top of one slice. A sandwich is usually a cold dish. I think it may possibly be different in Scandinavia. The Cheese dream looks more similar to cheese on toast than to cheese sandwich. And the best, best cheese on toast is with a layer of baked beans, a couple of rashers of bacon & then the cheese melted on top. Mm-mm. - Sitush (talk) 00:41, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. I disagree with the baked beans--Sitush, y'all lost in 1776 and thereafter, give it up. But this article, while it's not huge and is not likely to get any bigger, is well-written, comprehensive (albeit on a relatively small topic), and well-sourced (if I say so myself). It also has an excellent photograph, which is making me hungry even though I just ate almost all of a medium pizza. Who is that photographer? She deserves a barnstar for cooking AND photography. Drmies (talk) 00:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
  • BTW, Sitush, despite all his shortcomings, has a valid point: a merge with Cheese on toast is a (more) valid proposition. And I agree that there is a language issue here. Cheese on toast is a less-well verified article, but it may be a more appropriate title. Or shall we table this until CoM comes back? Drmies (talk) 00:49, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
• Sorry, I have to disagree with y'all. I honestly think we should merge all three: cheese sandwich, cheese dream, and cheese on toast. Cheese on bread - it's good stuff, granted, but it's just variations on one thing, and I don't see the need to have three (!!!) separate articles on it. LadyofShalott 01:37, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
  • So you are saying that you recognize the cheese dream forms a distinct sandwich, within a united cheese sandwich? I continue my stance as a cheese dream separtist. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
    • Lady, I see your point--but why not also merge Strammer Max and Croque Monsieur? At least the Cheese dream has a few things going for it: it has a (weird) name and some history. It's not the same as a cheese sandwich (which is cold, in my book anyway--a warm cheese sandwich is a Grilled cheese [sandwich]), though I will grant you it is a lot like Cheese on toast. Now, pardon the straw man, but would you be willing to go up to User:Ucucha and propose merging all those hairy, bitey mammals he likes, like squirrels and the Key Largo Woodrat, into Rat? (species schmecies) Drmies (talk) 03:15, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
      • Hmmm... I had to read both those other sandwich articles to be able to reply. Germans have a weird way of naming food, but perhaps every culture has. Those seem more different to me than these variations of cheese/bread do. I'm not sure I could defend the difference in the cases very strongly though. As for Ucucha's favorite subjects, I'm not touching that with a 10-foot R.O.U.S. K., I don't even know where to begin with your analogy! LadyofShalott 03:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
        • Look, if I have to explain my analogies, I'll have to know what they mean first. My point is crystal clear, though: where you see similarities (and, analogically, where all furries with teeth are mice, in my mom's book), connaisseurs like K, CoM, and yours truly see difference (and Ucucha sees over 600 species of rodents, and could have told my mother that it wasn't a mouse in her kitchen cabinet back in 1989. She still doesn't know.). Notable difference. I don't know, Lady. Sure, a Strammer Max has an egg on it. Sure, a croque monsieur uses Gruyere. Some like their grilled cheese on rye. In many ways they're all similar yet different. But like Max and Monsieur, the Dream has a non-generic name, and that's a bit helpful in terms of definition. If you were to propose lumping together all the grilled/sauteed/baked bread concoctions with cheese in or on or between them, I'd say you have a deal, but that leaves the question of the definition of 'sandwich'. Drmies (talk) 03:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
          • In paleotaxonomy, there are "lumpers" and "splitters". I guess I tend to be a lumper. Unless a mob of other lumpers comes along soon though, I'm clearly in the minority on this, and it's not like I have a strong policy-based argument that would trump the majority. <shrug> LadyofShalott 11:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
            • I have to admit, I'm with the Lady here. Without a compelling reason to separate, lumping should be the default. The Cheese Dream may be distinct enough to merit listing as a subspecies (er, a subsection,) but I don't think anyone has brought forth evidence indicating that it is distinct enough to merit any more than that. Kevin (talk) 00:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose The reference to "originally an open-face sandwich" is in a part that is referring entirely to the history of a grilled cheese sandwich, not a cheese sandwich as such. The whole balance of the article seems strange, in that the History and Preparation sections are both referring to a cooked cheese sandwich, not to a cheese sandwich in general. there is something to be said for the earlier suggestion of splitting the article, and moving the cooked part elsewhere. - David Biddulph (talk) 04:01, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
  • I'd be happy to have separate articles on cold and hot cheese sandwiches. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
• Oh for crying out loud. Merge all three until there's enough content in any one section that it threatens to overwhelm the others. That doesn't seem like an imminent danger given the subject matter, but the option is there. Powers ^T 18:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose These are distinct foods. Would be like merging Coke and Pepsi because they are both basically carbonated sugar water. Dennis Brown (talk) 20:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Those are distinct brand names, and the articles are on the brands moreso than on the drinks themselves (the article on the drinks themselves is cola). This is not an analogous situation. Powers ^T 20:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

(Re)moved dutch language link to proper page.

Someone removed the dutch link from croque-monsieur to tosti and this person placed it here under cheese-sandwich. But a cheese-sandwich only has cheese and NOT ham. And a tosti without ham is in dutch not allowed to be called a tosti (it is then called: broodje gegrilde kaas). Therefor I've restored the dutch language link for croque-monsieur to tosti and I've removed it from cheese-sandwich. Saratje86 (talk) 19:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

This article is a mess

It's a horrible unwieldy mixture of American and British terminology and concepts, with a bit of Aussie stuff thrown in as a bonus. A cheese sandwich is a sandwich with cheese as the main ingredient, not any random dish that contains bread and cheese in some way. A lot of WP food articles develop in this way as different editors make additions incorporating their own cultural assumptions, but this is more of a mess than most. Do we really need a WP article on this subject anyway? It's like having a Glass of water article. --Ef80 (talk) 20:59, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

What is the point?

Agreeing with some of the other points here as well but excuse me for asking what the point of a "cheese sandwich" article is when you only mention the one subcategory of Grilled Cheese. There is also no real explanation of how they are made and recipes for different kinds. I think this would spruce up the article quite a bit. Matt FerrellMferrell104 (talk) 17:21, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Grilled cheese

Most of the article currently consists of the "grilled cheese" section, which already has its own article and is not treated as part of the "cheese sandwich" category by sources. I propose removing this section entirely. –dlthewave ☎ 13:08, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Redirect

I think this is better off as a redirect to List of sandwiches, which is actually substantially more informative than this article is. The most substantial section is: (1) largely about Grilled cheese; and (2) largely unsourced. Andrew Davidson evidently thinks this article is better than a redirect. Let's discuss, shall we? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:17, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

• We just had a discussion and there was no consensus to change the status quo. As for the list of sandwiches, notice that includes 80+ sandwiches that involve cheese. As that list is organised alphabetically, the broad concept of the cheese sandwich is best covered here, under the obvious title. We might perhaps simplify the main list by bringing the various cheese sandwiches over here. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:41, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

  Well, I'd say there was no consensus to delete. If you count the delete and redirect !votes together, I'd say there was a consensus to change the status quo. I think the status quo is best changed by converting this to a list of cheese sandwiches, as you suggest. However, that is rather a thankless task, which I'm not super inclined to give myself just now. Perhaps others will weigh in—Dlthewave, Reywas92? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:48, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

  • I concur with making this a redirect or at least a full rebuild; it should not be 80% about the grilled cheese sandwich, which there is a separate article for, and it should not collect sandwiches just have cheese as an ingedient. Would be nice if the main list was sorted by other than alphabetical. Reywas92^Talk 05:30, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

In my opinion a redirect or disambiguation would be best; the AfD did show support for some type of structural change. This is an odd one because "cheese sandwich" is such an everyday term that it feels like it should be notable, but looking at it objectively the sourcing just isn't there and I don't see any path towards expansion. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong. I don't think it's appropriate to turn this into a "list of cheese sandwiches" without sourcing that A) clearly defines what qualifies as a cheese sandwich and B) treats the various types of cheese-involved sandwiches as a distinct topic. –dlthewave ☎ 04:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I disagree, I've put some work into expanding the article and I believe that the cheese sandwich deserves a second bite.SailingInABathTub (talk) 16:44, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Cream cheese sandwich

Is a cream cheese sandwich also a cheese sandwich? SailingInABathTub (talk) 06:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

What about a cottage cheese sandwich? SailingInABathTub (talk) 15:57, 31 December 2020 (UTC)