Talk:Deaths in April 2020

Bernard Gonzalez

I think a death listing for April 5 was deleted. If I'm not mistaken, the entry for "Bernard Gonzalez," a French doctor who committed suicide after being diagnosed with COVID-19, was removed. If this is so, why was his entry deleted? Am very curious. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 01:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

The editor who removed him seemed to feel that the doctor was only written about by the national press because a) he had been diagnosed with COVID-19 (just a topical subject), and b) the doctor committed suicide because of this (bordering on sensationalist reporting). Although I see he was employed by the notable Stade de Reims football club, I tend to agree with the editor that he in himself is not baseline notable and so I will not personally be putting him back in. Others may think differently when reading this. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 02:17, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. But curious, was it just one editor who made the decision? If that's the case, shouldn't there have been some type of discussion and consensus instead of a 'blanket' removal based on one person's 'whim'? It's possible, as you say, that "others may think differently when reading this." And I'm thinking those others may be the French. And, if I understand Wikipedia's policy, if it had been one of the club's players, he'd be automatically listed just because he's an "athlete." Pardon me if I fail to see a distinction in club occupation as a reason of non-notability. Thanks 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 03:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

In the case of someone removing an entry due to non-notability, another editor may sometimes revert that edit if they feel that notability does exist. On this occasion though, no-one has reverted and the removal has stood. If there had been a revert and the removing editor objected, then no doubt the discussion would have started here, as you would wish it to. Like it has with us. And, as I say, it may still be the case that the result of this discussion is the reinstatement of the entry. But, as I've already indicated, despite his position at the French professional football club, I don't see enough notability for that restoring editor to be me. The best course now is to see what, if any, reaction there is to this discussion. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 03:51, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree that Gonzalez does not appear to meet any notability guideline. He is ineligible for WP:NFOOTBALL, and fails WP:GNG as sources for his death are limited to tabloid and parochial media. Of course, our IP editor could always write an article about Gonzalez and see if it survives deletion review. WWGB (talk) 04:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Charlotte Figi

Charlotte Figi was an American girl who had a strain of medical marijuana named after her (Charlotte's web). She suffered from seizures, but they stopped after parents had her use a form of marijuana that doesn't a high. The girl died from Covid-19 on April 7. Her brief bio is on the page cited. Does she warrant an inclusion? B-Machine (talk) 20:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Article notes a "negative" on COVID, so if that was the driving force behind inclusion, forget it. If Dravet syndrome or CBD awareness is the idea, fair play for 30 days. If because she was young and tragic, meh. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Some pandemic fan has given her an article, so that settles that on this level. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:34, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Or cannabinoid legalization nut. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:25, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

One of those would've done it while she was was winning, I think, dying of a seizure isn't a good look for anti-seizure medicine. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Tom Lester

Okay, so since @Shadow2700: is hellbent on edit warring over this then talking here, I’ll start: Shadow, why is Gordy so disagreeable to you? Rusted AutoParts 19:20, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Pinging @Jonny Nixon: too. Rusted AutoParts 19:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you can stop editing every post I make because somehow you feel that you always know which credit is better. It's no secret. No one had heard of Gordy, and you yourself, always indicate "better" known credit. Wiki can be edited by all. There are no experts here. No one has a monopoly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shadow2700 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

You’re being needlessly aggressive and acting in total bad faith. I don’t think I know better at all. Doesn’t matter if you haven’t heard of Gordy, it doesn’t make it suddenly not apart of Lesters filmography. Rusted AutoParts 19:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

What are you talking about, Shadow? Gordy is a notable film covered by 43 Wikipedia projects, as well as Lester being the second credited actor and having a mention in his own article's lead. Meanwhile, he appeared in 6/222 episodes of Petticoat Junction (which is covered by a WHOPPING 3 Wikipedia projects). Was it a childhood favourite, perhaps? —Jonny Nixon (talk) 19:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

With the lack of additional comment from Shadow it feels this is more or less just an instance of WP:OWN. The core stance they took was to lash out at me for changing the credits. Rusted AutoParts 20:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Not a personal attack, but you do change my credits every single time, and that is frustrating as we work together to produce the best possible work, so feel free to quit the sympathy and victim card. Despite my editing, I do not know the ins and outs, so I don't know how to sign this. Again, let's worth together rather than assuming one is always better than the other. Shadow2700 (talk • contribs) 20:07, 20 April 2020‎ (UTC)

You throw a tizzy every time a credit is switched and make remarks towards me as if I’m just singling you out to do so. You also said in a newer summary that I’d come here to “make a threat”. Why is that about? Like Nixon said, Lester only did 6 PJs. He was a main in Gordy. That’s clearly the more notable credit. Rusted AutoParts 20:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

I do apologize - I meant come here and start a "thread" - I did not mean threat - that was a typographical error. I am honestly not trying to be difficult, but please know it's just my frustration as you do change a credit on every single actor/actress entry (not just mine - true, look back). It just comes across as arrogant as if you know better than I or someone else. I think, at time, the treatment here is inconsistent. I think credits should be well-known, but also if someone appeared in a television show in a notable role, why shouldn't that be included. I think we both overreacted but had the same intent - make Lester's entry the best it can be. Shadow2700 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 20 April 2020‎ (UTC)

Me changing a credit isn't me trying to be arrogant and thinking I know better/pick and choose what goes in, it's to try and reflect what their most notable credits are. Everyone's going to always have a differing perspective, I get that, but I'm certainly not trying to assert anything when I change a credit. Rusted AutoParts 21:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

So here's my take on actor/actress listings: if they've had memorable performances on stage and in film and television, I try to add entries from all three venues, if possible. Having more or all of them from only one gives a sense of imbalance, possibly unfairly. In Lester's case, if GA and PJ were his only notabilities, they should be listed, if the appearances number more than a couple; however, he is known more for Gordy more than the PJ episodes (but he played the same character in both shows, as well as on The Beverly Hillbillies, totaling a dozen episodes). Wikipedia is all about collaboration, and this page is all about recognizing an entry's accomplishments and contributions to this world trying to stop the spiral to hell in a handbasket. Wyliepedia @ 11:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

So is this consensus for reinstating Gordy? Don't want to rush to readd it if this isn't the case. Rusted AutoParts 22:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

You don't need a consensus to make one credit edit! Do you know what I do? I choose my max 3 credits for a subject entry and add them if no-one else has - then I totally leave it alone. If someone else sees it differently, they can change mine, but I've had my say and it is never worth arguing over, to my mind. Ref ^(chew)(do) 05:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Typically yes, but since the credit in question was contested, I figured I should confirm there was an agreement. Rusted AutoParts 19:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Simon Barrington-Ward - Covid

The Times has published the Rt. Rev.’s obituary and I understand from Peerage News that it indicates he died from covid-19. Does anybody have access to confirm this? Would also be great to flesh out his page based on the info from the obit. Thank you --Elinor.Dashwood (talk) 23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

The Times needs subscribing and Peerage News is blog-ish, so that's a "no" from me. Wyliepedia @ 00:40, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I have access to the Times and can confirm it says he died from Covid-19.-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by BM1196 (talk • contribs) 10:03, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

BM1196, that's great, I'm so happy for you. Unfortunately, it's still a paywall for most of us. Wyliepedia @ 10:18, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully then in time when a non pay wall source rounds up notable covid-19 deaths it can be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BM1196 (talk • contribs) 10:20, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Joel Rogosin

I've been reading several articles, and a lot of them say that he died on Tuesday. However, some of them say that he died on Sunday.

The articles that say Tuesday: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5].

These articles say Sunday: [6], [7]. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 12:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I believe the articles which say Sunday know something that the others don't. It appears that the others, reporting on Wednesday, may have assumed that the death occurred the day before. It is more likely that the death occurred on the earlier date, and only some of the journals mentioned may have been told this. I would leave it as is until all those outlets change to a common date of death. (The source currently in use says Sunday, so I'd leave that in there.) Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

But, of course, someone changed it to Tuesday with selective sourcing to suit. Ref ^(chew)(do) 10:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Having looked again tonight, sources are still running at about 50/50 between claiming a Sunday death and a later Tuesday death. Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Jill Gascoine

Why does my edit keep getting reverted in the Deaths in 2020 section? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 13:15, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Because you are pushing a tabloid source (Daily Star) when a better-quality source (The Guardian) is available. WWGB (talk) 13:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Outrageous. Tabloid sources are valid (apart, of course, from the Daily Mail). Outright prejudicial censorship, if that is what's happening. Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:39, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I can't tell if you're being serious or not but The Daily Star is a tabloid that is generally considered less reliable than the Daily Mail. as per consensus Praxidicae (talk) 15:56, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

And if either of those publications happens to be the ONLY source available at a certain time, you keep out what will turn into a valid entry because of that? Great state of affairs if so, and it is undeniably censorship by consensus. Don't sound so puzzled - I'm purely making a point based on my opinion, not arguing for my ability to ignore the convention. Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:DAILY MAIL provides that is should not be used as a source in articles. So, if that's the only available source, the death ain't listed. WWGB (talk) 01:14, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

The idea that we should keep unreliable sources in an article because no better sources are available goes against, like, every part of WP:V as a policy. Praxidicae (talk) 10:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Paul J. Smith

Why was my edit reverted on this? It says that he died on the 27th. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

The revert was because you just deleted the entry and didn’t move it to the date you’re saying is the right day. Rusted AutoParts 21:54, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

@MikaelaArsenault: I have to point out that it's not the first time that's happened either (I put one right some days ago). More careful editing is crucial for you as you go forward here. Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:18, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I moved it to the date that I said was the right day, but it ended up getting reverted again. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 09:34, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

@MikaelaArsenault: What reliable source did you use to determine that Smith died on the 27th? WWGB (talk) 10:26, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

I used this, [8]. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 09:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

That source does not say he died on 27 April. WWGB (talk) 09:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Sam Lloyd

I've been reading different articles, and some of them say either brain cancer/cancer or brain tumor. Should it be changed, or leave it the way it is? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Same thing. A brain tumour is a manifestation of brain cancer. WWGB (talk) 02:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

So it should be kept at brain tumor then and not be changed to brain cancer? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 09:13, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." A good rule to follow here. Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I am actually going to throw a flag here. We need to investigate this. Variety has stated he died from complications of lung cancer which makes sense. It is one of those weird connections where lung cancer spreads through the body and it hits the brain first. So this either should be a brain tumor as a complication of lung cancer, metastatic cancer or complications from lung cancer. Your pick...here is the link: [9].Sunnydoo (talk) 21:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I was wondering when I saw this b/c the US media usually state which of the 2 brain common cancers (astrocytomas or glioblastomas) it was. Neither was cited but this makes sense now that it was lung cancer.Sunnydoo (talk) 21:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Going by his page, the brain tumour was a result of metastatic lung cancer that spread throughout. Rusted AutoParts 22:41, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

NYT corroborates complications from lung cancer, and they phrase it as “Kevin Turner, a representative for Mr. Lloyd, confirmed his death on Saturday. He died of complications from lung cancer, his family said in a statement.” Case closed in my books. Rusted AutoParts 03:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Nothing to investigate. Ref ^(chew)(do) 05:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. That clears everything up. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 12:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Samantha Fox

The American pornographic film actress named Samantha Fox passed away on April 22 according to this: "Sad news to report. I heard from Samantha Fox’s sister this afternoon that Samantha passed away on April 22nd". The suspected cause was cardio-vascular illness with CV-19 complications. She will be sadly missed. Can this be added? Thank you. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 23:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

No social media links. Rusted AutoParts 23:13, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

WP:SELFPUBLISH applies here.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:36, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Mikaela, please read the FAQs at the top of this page. They will answer most of the questions that you post here. WWGB (talk) 00:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I will, thank you. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 12:21, 3 May 2020 (UTC)