Talk:Deir es-Sultan

Architecture Low‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Oriental Orthodoxy Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oriental Orthodoxy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on the Oriental Orthodox Church on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Oriental OrthodoxyWikipedia:WikiProject Oriental OrthodoxyTemplate:WikiProject Oriental OrthodoxyOriental Orthodoxy articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Ethiopia Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethiopia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ethiopia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EthiopiaWikipedia:WikiProject EthiopiaTemplate:WikiProject EthiopiaEthiopia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Requested move 11 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Deir es-Sultan.Original proposal is opposed Winged Blades^Godric 10:33, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deir Es-Sultan → Monastery of the Sultan – Considering WP:Consistency for WP:Articletitles of Christian sites of this type (c.f. Template:Old City (Jerusalem)). As for the article text, "El" linguistic article is more associated with Egyptian Arabic, whle this site is in a Levantine Arabic area (c.f. Al-Aqsa Mosque), notwithstanding that the latter's translitterations ("Al-") are arguably more widely accepted in Western context. But we typically give preference for English name sources if available, despite if native Arabic naming is widespread. See also: http://www.mafhoum.com/press3/96S23.htm , http://copticocc.org/site/?p=51343&lang=en , http://www.arabwestreport.info/en/locations/monastery-sultan-jerusalem-israel , http://www.melekuse.org/index.php/70-home/nature/159-get-ready-to-talk Chicbyaccident (talk) 17:57, 11 November 2017 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 00:39, 19 November 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. —usernamekiran(talk) 07:00, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OpposeThis is the recognized name of the place. Translation can appear in parentheses, but nobody ever calls it Monastery of the Sultan and it is not known anywhere by that name, so moving it does not make sense.--Geewhiz (talk) 10:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No opinion on the move request itself, but if it does stay at the current title, it should be changed to Deir es-Sultan per the usual Arabic naming conventions (e.g. Daliyat al-Karmel, Jisr az-Zarqa etc). Number 5 7 13:36, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would support that as an improved second option. Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:43, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Deir es-Sultan as above, but this is the common name of the place. We don't just translate for the sake of it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:29, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

What IS Deir es-Sultan? Useless article, as it offers no definition.

Is it the partially raised area with the Ethiopian monks' huts in the eastern and south-eastern part of the former Crusader cloister of the Augustines? Is it the entire former cloister, including the open area? The photo shows the western part of the cloister's open area. Does it include the two chapels, which lead down to the parvis, currently tended to by the Ethiopians and disputed by the Copts? One is slightly below the cloister level, the other below that, at parvis level.

No definition, which makes the article practically useless. Arminden (talk) 18:33, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian ownership

The Ethiopian church believes they have had a monastery in Jerusalem -- presumably at Deir es-Sultan -- since ancient times, perhaps as early as the time of their conversion in the 4th century; however, the earliest attested record of their monastery was the grant of Saladin in 1189 of many sites to the Ethiopians for their use. (Tadesse Tamrat, Church and State in Ethiopia, 1270-1527 (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1972), p.58; citing E. Cerulli, Etiopi in Palestina, i (1943), pp. 33-37) There have since been numerous mentions of their monastery over the following centuries. Nonetheless, Ethiopian possession of Deir es-Sultan has been a contentious issue between them & other Christian groups, which has not been helped by the loss of the records of the community in the mid-19th century. -- llywrch (talk) 17:13, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]