Talk:Hunky (ethnic slur)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

On 11 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Hunky culture to Hunky (ethnic slur). The result of the discussion was moved.

Nonsense?

This is a bunch of nonsense. "Hunky" is not an ethnic group; all of the ethnicities that fall under the term are keenly aware of their differences and origins. Hungarians self-identify as Hungarians, Croats as Croats, and so on. I suggest a deletion and/or complete re-write. Mihovil 02:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hunky is a group of ethnicities from the perspective of American immigrant history. Their shared experiences make for a valid declaration of the group's existence. Don't think of it in modern terms - think of it in historical terms. It's a historical term now anyway. -Etoile (talk) 04:35, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Although I am not much competent in this topic, this expression DO exist, and refers to an ethnical group of Eastern-European origin. As far as Orszagh's dictionary is a reliable source of information regarding the meaning of words. (by the way, I visited this page because I stumbled in mentioned dictionary such a strange word, I wanted to know more about it)Velag (talk) 19:52, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's this all about? "Deriving from a rich culture, the people are entrenched in music, food and family." Horrible grammar and incorrect usage. Should be 'derived from' and 'engrossed in' but I can't be bothered to edit someone's embarrassing high-school term-paper prose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Countryroads (talk • contribs) 16:58, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not to be super rude, but since you're calling it "high-school [sic] term-paper [sic] prose", the sentence "Derived from a rich culture, the people are engrossed in music, food and family" bears the rather impressive distinction of being even worse than the first sentence. The whole thing should go for being bizarrely ethnocentric, but perhaps "The Hunky immigrants have preserved many of the cultural traditions of their native lands, placing a strong emphasis on family and their own ethnic food and music" (although these are such platitudes that the sentence should really just go.) 92.78.143.24 (talk) 15:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For starters, this is Wikipedia. If you see something wrong, fix it. If you don't want to fix it, walk away. No one is asking you to bother with anything.

However, as to the substance of your statements about the topic, I am from a coal mining community in rural southwestern Pennsylvania, the term "Hunky" has most certainly been used as a pejorative term for workers of Eastern European, and especially Hungarian, descent, for about 100 years. In our area, south of Pittsburgh but just north of West Virginia, we call our communities "patches," so the term, "Patch Hunky" was very much in use in my childhood and I was born in 1965. Many of the people here came from Italy and Eastern Europe to work in the steel mills, coke ovens and coal mines of the greater Pittsburgh area about 1880-1910. The people of "Slavic" background were either called Hunkies or Russians, even if they weren't either. I was an adult before I knew I was half Czech, I had only heard the slurs and misunderstandings before. Maybe you didn't grow up in the region they are speaking of or in the time period they are speaking of, or in the kinds of communities they are speaking of. But I did. As with the "N" word and African-Americans today, sure, people against whom these terms were used, used them for themselves, so Slavic people in the patches called themselves Hunkies, but don't let them catch someone else calling them that. And no one in their right minds would call someone a Patch Hunky to their face. That would cause a multi-family riot, probably lasting for generations, the term was filled with so much revulsion. It is on par with "wop" and "dago" for Italians, or "polacks" for the Polish.

You are also incorrect about it being a historical term. I am a historian, but I also live in the present. It is still used here. The coal mining communities of rural southwestern Pennsylvania are a very backwards place. Some of the actual immigrants and children of the immigrants are still alive here, and they see nothing wrong with calling someone a Hunky, in a pejorative sense - in fact, I think they use it with even more vile now than they did 40 years ago. They look down their noses at Hunkies, and especially at Patch Hunkies, that is the lowest of the Hunkies -- I guess similar to "Mill Hunky" that this article speaks of. So I would have to disagree with your across the board dismissal of this, both professionally as a Historian, and mainly because I lived it and I still live it. Kelelain (talk) 03:34, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

other Slavic

Hungarians are not Slavic by any means, yet this article sometimes fails to reflect this. - 146.110.50.34 (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just fixed this. - DetroitSeattle (talk) 06:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Honky?

The slur honky, generally meaning "a white man", is pretty obviously related to hunky (probably originally a variant spelling, cf. monkey, and, for some Americans, donkey), yet it receives no mention in the article. That should be remedied. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 20:21, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If it's so obvious you shouldn't have much trouble finding reliable sources to support this supposition. JesseRafe (talk) 21:04, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What I lack is not sources but time, and the inclination to contend with Wikipedians. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 21:48, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Then just note the source here and I'll add it to the article. Would've taken just as much precious time as unnecessary underhanded comments. JesseRafe (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is why I don't bother with Wikipedia anymore. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 18:56, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. JesseRafe (talk) 19:37, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 12:25, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hunky culture → Hunky – Moving to the site of a former disambiguation page. Marisauna (talk) 23:50, 11 November 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). — Amakuru (talk) 11:05, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You've just moved that disambiguation page, after it'd been there for 16 years. Would you please be able to elaborate on why "Hunky culture" belongs at the base name "Hunky"? Thank you. Dr. Vogel (talk) 00:09, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A valid concern. This is for two reasons:

1) The content of the article Hunky culture is entirely about the word hunky and its associations, rather than any distinguishable culture or subculture. In keeping with other articles about ethnic slurs, it would be less confusing if the title were simply the word in question.

See Peckerwood (another slur) as a relevant example: if that article, which actually discusses a subculture, can go by just the word, I don't see why Hunky culture can't be moved to Hunky.

2) The disambiguation page itself is superfluous and clunky. When I searched the word hunky, I was expecting to be greeted by an article about the slur using the base title. The disambiguation page hides the word behind a long expository paragraph, which, combined with my concerns listed in (1), almost led me to believe the wiki had no article about the word.

It also has only two disambiguations, the other of which is for an adjectival form of the word hunk. This word has no article and is self-admittedly subsumed by the word beefcake. If it came down to it, the contents of this disamb could be moved into a hatnote with little issue.

I hope that explains my reasoning. Marisauna (talk) 04:04, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to contested. Doesn't seem like a proper primary topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:50, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't think this is a primary topic over the other topics listed at Hunky (which I've restored, following the recent undiscussed move of the dab page). — Amakuru (talk) 11:05, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I'm not convinced that Hunky culture is the best title for this article, but it shouldn't be the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 17:47, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, but rename in some other way. This is not the primary meaning of "hunky", as the term is currently rarely used with this meaning. The cited "Dictionary of the Coal Region" says "bohunk" is a more common word meaning the same thing, so perhaps it should be renamed to Bohunk (which is currently a redirect to List of ethnic slurs#B). Other possibilities include Hunky (slur), Hunky (ethnic identification), Hunky (ethnic grouping), Hunky (ethnicity), or Hunky (ethnic slur). I note that some of the cited sources say the term is not always intended as a slur —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:57, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've backed off from my original position and now Oppose as well. Dr. Vogel and Amakuru have done an excellent job redoing the relevant disambiguation page, by reformatting and including more examples. I still do not believe that Hunky culture is a good title for the article, so I support renaming it to Bohunk or another of BarrelProof's suggestions. Marisauna (talk) 19:27, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 19 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No general consensus to move. Two editors in previous RM suggested the current title as an adequate name for the article but otherwise there has been no support or opposition for this in the two weeks or so it has been open. (non-admin closure) Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 20:04, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hunky culture → Hunky (ethnic identification) – Although there was unanimous agreement not to rename this to Hunky as a primary topic, the current title is poor, as there is no particular culture that this term identifies. It is a term applied broadly to immigrants from a (loosely defined) geographic region that contains a variety of cultural characteristics. Other possibilities discussed in the previous just-closed RM include Hunky (slur), Hunky (ethnic grouping), Hunky (ethnicity), and Hunky (ethnic slur). I am not proposing to call it a slur since it is apparently not always pejorative. Another possibility is to rename it to Bohunk, since that is apparently an approximately synonymous and more commonly used term and is more unambiguous, but the current article content seems more focused on hunky than bohunk. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 21:21, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Hunky (ethnic slur), I'm not sure "not always pejorative" means we shouldn't refer to it as an ethnic slur. After all, the N-word is sometimes used in a non-pejorative manner, but I feel like we'd still call it a slur. Merriam-Webster refers to Hunky as "usually disparaging + offensive". Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ethnic groups has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 21:20, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Anthropology has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 21:21, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: to generate a more thorough consensus — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 21:21, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 11 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hunky culture → Hunky (ethnic slur) – I believe we have agreed that the current title is poor, as there is no particular culture that this term identifies. I had suggested Hunky (ethnic identification) in the most recent RM, but Amakuru suggested Hunky (ethnic slur) instead. As a result, the RM was closed as no consensus. After checking with the person who closed the RM to confirm the situation, let's see if we can agree on Amakuru's suggested title. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, and thanks to BP for pursuing this again. The current name seems to be a made-up misnomer... — Amakuru (talk) 23:39, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
support per nom and previous discussions—blindlynx 00:43, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Rreagan007 (talk) 18:57, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.