Talk:Mariah Carey/Archive 9

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This page is an Archive of the discussions from Mariah Carey talk page (Discussion page). (October 2010 - March 2012) - Please Do not edit!

Do we need to add CBS Records?

Back then, Columbia Records was called "CBS Records" until 1991, and officially changed its name to "Columbia", can I add it or just leave it Columbia? User:Smarty9108 (talk) 02:00, 03 June 2012 (UTC)

Personal life

Mariah Carey and Nick Cannon have become parents to twins, a baby girl and boy. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20110430/ten-mariah-carey-gives-birth-to-twins-5f8abb3.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.21.111 (talk) 08:56, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Removed preceding comment per WP:NOTFORUM. Novice7 (talk) 16:29, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Not true, those kids are mine. I am filing a paternity suit, please remove libelous information that Nick Cannon is the father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.165.52 (talk) 04:21, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Photo in infobox

Wikipedia in use: The photo in the infobox was used for an illustration in an interview with Mariah for Time Out. --David Shankbone 16:08, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Change of photo in info box

Petergriffin9901 changed the lead photo on the 21st of October. Since then his edit has been reverted 4 times by 4 different editors. Each time Petergriffin9901 has reverted it back.

The problem is that;

1. The existing photo is very good and clearly shows the subject.
2. The replacement clutters the image with a second person who has very little to do with this article.

Can I asked Petergriffin9901 to stop edit warring over this and explain why the picture he is adding is better for the purpose? The "Quite a few editors" who agree with the change could contribute to the discussion, as so far there is no evidence of them on this talk page.

Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Can I ask where there is a rule that the photo should not have another person in it? Or anything else your claiming? I happen to think its opinion based. You can leave it here and well see what people think.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:09, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there is a "rule". But it's generally accepted that, whenever possible, the best photos to lead an article are of the subject alone. Featuring someone else can be confusing. Which is which? (No, I'm not suggesting that's a problem in this case) Who is this other person? What is their significance? Why are they in this article? Are they usually seen together? Are they in a relationship? It's all a needless distraction, particularly when there is a perfectly acceptable, high quality photo of Carey alone available. There is no reason to replace it. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

nothing big...

just wanted to point out that the word enthusiastic is misspelled —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.167.112 (talk) 03:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Mariah Carey's birthday is incorrect. She was Born March 27, 1969 according to her Driver license, her record of birth in the county she was born and her high school record's which have been checked. It has erroniously been listed in several magazines and 1970. Nov 29, 2010Rock1020 (talk) 05:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Truth...

Five-octave vocal range? This is complete fabrication. She was even removed from the Guiness Book of Records because it's simply not true. She can not and does not have a five-octave vocal range. Even real singers do not have such a range (opera singers) … please correct this sycophantic lie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.30.212.184 (talk) 00:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Removed from the Guiness World Records? Do people stay in those books every year? I thought a new book was published with new achievements. If you read the article, there's a statement from a voice expert that says she has more than that because she can whisper and go straight through to the whistle. Jayy008 (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

It is completely true. If you look on youtube there are live vocal range videos that professional piano teachers have posted that prove she has well above a five-octave vocal range. You obviously have no idea of musical notes or voice. I suggest you edcuate yourself. Besides we have many reliable sources for the claim.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Double check, but I think the song "Without you" is actually by Harry Nilsson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.99.182 (talk) 14:07, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

"With You" was by Badfinger, before Harry Nilsson. Jayy008 (talk) 12:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

SO embarrassed for you right now. It's proven she has a five octave vocal range. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m11c_wSqOdM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.2.95 (talk) 10:49, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I think maybe you should learn that a fan-made YouTube video is hardly a reliable source. The sources that are reliable are in the "voice" section on the main page. I think this conversation is terminated. Jayy008 (talk) 20:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I think you got to be fairly stupid to not get the fact she got that enormous range, even if it's a youtube video, if she hits a G2 and a G7, she hit it. It's like saying she is not a woman because, there are no reliable sources. I know that in opera world other criteria are used but this is a popular singer, her full range can be counted in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.120.8 (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I apologize, but screeching in 40 registers cannot simply count as singing. She does not have five octaves vocal range. I myself was witness when her voice was manipulated in a New York studio to go beyond her natural capabilities. Either have a RELIABLE source, not her PR troupe, prove it, or remove that blatant lie. Oh, and most of the videos that are available now, particularly featuring dear Mariah, have been re-recorded in studio environments. I was there as well.Sgracanin (talk) 17:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Then how do you explain over 20 years of successful studio albums, numerous hit singles and live vocal performances? Was that all "engineered?" If she couldn't sing, we would've found out by now. Twenty years is a long time to live a lie. Especially one this huge. Elemental5392 (talk) 16:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

So many claims of ridiculously enormous vocal ranges are bunk. This is Wikipedia, so you should be able to produce reliable secondary sources as references for such claims. You have to have, for instance, a credible recording (and it's so easy to electronically modify a recording), and identify exacly what high note she sings, and when. Likewise, a low note. A claim of her vocal range must include a Wikipedia-compliant reference documenting the highest note, and likewise the lowest note, that she is proven to have sung, and those notes define the range that may rightly be claimed in this article. So far, there is no such evidence. Youtube videos posted by fans don't really measure up. Fan claims are not usually considered suitable. If you're going to make extraordinary claims, back them up with verifiable facts. Carey can hit some extremely high notes in the "whistle" register, but that's not enough to support the 5-octave claim. Show a reliable reference to a low baritone note, specifying exactly what note, and also an amazingly high "whistle" register note, specify the exact notes, and enter the citation(s) properly into the article. That's the standard that should be maintained on Wikipedia. Youtube links to unverified fan-edited videos, on the article's talk page, are NOT sufficient. Simply making claims that it's "proven" is not the same as actually proving it. Proof of an extremely high note is not proof of any specific vocal range unless there is also proof of a low note. BOTH a high note and a low note, at least five octaves apart, are required to make the claim that she has a five octave range. So far, evidence of such a range has not been presented. 4.154.250.67 (talk) 03:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Am I truly the only one who thinks that last comment is a piece of crap. Maybe we could you know, get rid of the term singer too, cuz you know,maybe she wasn't singing all that time either...(NOT) Sometimes you just shouldn't go as far. There's even a bootleg of here doing that some high end run on emotions in worcester, a sharp F7 or a possible G7 and that G2 comes from an radio interview. We all know she got it... I think you just a hater. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.241.83.153 (talk) 22:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

No singers here, I guess. She may well have a 5-octave range, but singers are defined by their *effective* range, not merely the pitch boundaries of their natural range (including the falsetto). However, Carey is a phenomenal singer regardless of her full range. Hell, I have a range of over three octaves, but I'm only effective in slightly under two, i.e. I can really only sing in my effective range. I can *reach* the outer limits of the larger range but I can't sustain pitch accuracy or handle any considerable length of melody. Again, regardless of her range, she's proved many times over that she is effective in most of her range. Vision Of Love remains one of the most remarkable vocal performances I've ever heard. I'd love to hear her sing some of Hildegard von Bingen's music, she's probably the only popular singer who could actually do it with ease. Btw, Billie Holiday was one of the greatest singers yet her full range not broad - some say only about an octave and a half - and she packs more meaning and soul into her renditions than most better-endowed voices. Range is no determinate of anything but boundary conditions, the real news is what gets done within the given range, of course. Again, I think MC is simply phenomenal in that regard. Oh, one word more re: range and I'm gone: Captain Beefheart is also said to have had an enormous vocal range. I love his music too, but he was no MC. :) 98.30.29.58 (talk) 11:41, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

We cannot give her age without citation

Her birth year was given on this article as 1970, making her age 40, without the required citation. Major news outlets including the NY Daily News and CBS News (!) both give 41. Please see Derschowitz, Jessica. "Mariah Carey: I'm Pregnant", CBS News, October 28, 2010 9:40 AM and Everett, Cristina. "Mariah Carey is pregnant! Singer confirms she is expecting first child with husband Nick Cannon", Daily News, Thursday, October 28th 2010, 9:33 AM --Tenebrae (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've found three WP:RS cites that give two different ages -- Daily News and CBS News above says she's 41,while AllMusic.com says she's 40. I've given all three sources and noted that "sources vary". --Tenebrae (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

People Magazie confirmed her age with birth records, school records, and NY state ID records. Please return her DOB to 3/27/69. Thanks. 69.140.66.37 (talk) 01:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

That's good. Can you give a cite and link for where People says that? We can't do anything with a verifying cite. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed that in the interim, someone changed "1969 or 1970 (sources vary)" to just "1970". I've changed it back to the "sources vary" version. Reliable sources running the gamut from AllMusic.com to CBS to the NY Daily News give different years. Without definitive proof one way or the other, changing it to either year is POV. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Without citation, someone wrote in an edit summary today that "Carey herself" claimed the younger age. First, that's primary source. Second, stars lie about their ages all the time. Third, where is the cite for that? It's not footnoted here. By Wikipedia definition, CBS News and the NY Daily news are highly reliable sources. You cannot simply ignore WP:RS third-party sources just because they disagree with your belief. I believe if we take this to WP:RfC that the majority of editors will confirm they are indeed WP:RS third-party sources. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The problem here is you will find reliable third party sources for both years. Carey herself has done a very good job muddying the waters over this and is in no hurry to clarify. So I suspect that unless a reliable source can be bothered to do a in-depth investigation to uncover the truth, like it actually matters, we may never be able to settle the matter. Did People Magazine really do this? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Whether People went through all that, I don't know. I do know that its Mariah Carey page here says: "Mariah Carey: Date of Birth March 27, 1969. Birth Place Huntington, N.Y." It's a Time Inc. publication and generally very good about these sorts of things.

I agree with you: We completely find reliable third party sources for both years, so I don't see how we can do anything but give both years and say "sources vary". --Tenebrae (talk) 21:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Her birthday just passed on March 27. Well, these sources note she was born in 1969. Here, here, and here. Also, it's funny how it varies even on Google: this source says she's 42, yet some others still say 41. Not sure. I don't think it's something that will be resolved anytime soon, but like I mentioned before, usually it is mandated that American teens attend high school until they are 18 years old: she graduated in 1987, so she must of been born in 1969. Currently, though, we still don't have anything so definite showing the exact birth year. Estheroliver (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

[1] Here is an interview promoting debut album where she says she recorded when she was 19 (1989) and the album came out when she was 20 (1990). It implies she was born in 1970. Unless she was lying about her age back then, but I don't understand why she would.

At around 2:30 Donnie Simpson: So you're album was released when you were 19? Mariah Carey: Um... yeah, no, 20. I recorded when I was 19. Donnie Simpson: Okay. --PoppleGumBop (talk) 10:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

The twins' birth certificates have just been revealed here. These documents show the mother's birthyear to be 1970. Jjmcspooh (talk) 08:32, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

That page doesn't show any documents.

Also, the 1970 date is relying on a 1995 book that may be outdate. People, the New York Daily News and CBS all give 1969. We need to return to the "sources vary" version. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

As well, her own Long Island newspaper, Newsday, says [2] "Born in Huntington, raised in Greenlawn" — not born in Northport. That 1995 book being cited for the 1970 birthdate and for Northport appears to be just some quickie celebrity bio with questionable research. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Sources for March 27, 1970

• 2013 A+E Networks Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• MTV Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• Yahoo! Movies Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• American Top 40 with Ryan Seacrest - confirms full birth date
• Grammy Awards 1991 - confirms 20 years old in February 1991
• The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll/Biography - "June 1993, Carey married Mottola, a man 20 years her senior." - confirms 23 years old in June 1993
• Mariah Carey's official website PLUS Associated Press - confirms 41 years old in April 2011
• Glamour Magazine - confirms 43 years old on March 27, 2013
• VH1 43rd Birthday Commemoration - confirms 43 years old in 2013
• Yahoo! Music - confirms 43 years old in April 2013
• E! Online - confirms 43 years old in May 2013
• Guardian Express - confirms 43 years old in July 2013
• New York Daily News at Picture #7 - details that Mariah's age is 43 years in July 2013 - as you can see, one of your sources has contradicted itself

All of these sources which are current and specialize in the music industry confirm her birth to be March 27, 1970. These should be given greater preference over errors in other sources. Teammm ^talk
_email 20:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Fine. I'm not going to argue or revert. However, as a journalist who realizes that celebrities have been known from time to time to lie about their age, I'm adding a footnote addressing the fact that People, Parade and others give a different date. I imagine you'll agree that we need to say something and not bury our heads in the sand and pretend these major magazines don't exist. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:38, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

• Mariah Carey early career interview in 1990 - (Video at 2:30) Mariah firsthand confirms she was 20 years old in June 1990

I don't agree due to the fact that Mariah herself and the vast majority of sources place her birth in 1970. It doesn't make sense to refer to a few outliers when Mariah herself has confirmed the other sources. Teammm ^talk
_email 02:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Actors, actresses and singers lie about their ages frequently. That's one reason we really on third-party sources and not primary sources.

I can tell you this: I've been a journalist for over 30 years, and your attempts at censoring a viewpoint you personally disagree with is irresponsible and makes my job and other journalists' jobs harder. Whoever you are — and I can tell you're not a journalist yourself — you cannot personally, unilaterally, declare that Time Inc., Parade, CBS News and other sources "don't count." We have a right to know that not all sources agree — that major, responsible news organizations give differing birthdates. To say that you, personally, refuse to even allow this in a footnote is pure WP:OWN.

So let's either bring this to mediation, do an RfC or find some other way of bringing in responsible additional parties. Because your fannish whitewashing of what major sources state — your refusal to even acknowledge these other major sources exist — is plainly wrong. Wikipedia is not censored — and censoring facts is exactly what you're doing. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, here is what Time Inc.'s People magazine itself has to say:

In response to fan inquiries about the correct date, a spokesperson of the magazine issued a statement, "we have a copy of Ms. Carey's driver's license, which lists her birthday as March 27, 1969. Furthermore, we spoke with the administrators at the high school she attended who confirmed that Ms. Carey's birthday is March 27, 1969, as did her management when we made our initial interview." [3]

So it looks like the 1970 date is wrong. People has a copy of her driver's license, and what's more, did all the additional research that a responsible news organization is supposed to do. Clearly, someone lied or misstated, 1970 wound up in Wikipedia, and lazy journalists have just copied each other.

People has a copy of her driver's license, confirmed 1969 with her high school administrators and even got it from her management. Contrary to your edit summary, that is not "unconfirmed." That's the very definition of confirmed. What do you say to all that? --Tenebrae (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's the Los Angeles Times, Sept. 25, 2009. LA Times music critic Ann Powers says Carey has "hit 40." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2009/09/album-review-mariah-careys-memoirs-of-an-imperfect-angel.html --Tenebrae (talk) 04:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and how about this: From 1987 to 1990, before someone decided to shave a year off her age, as entertainers often do, Mariah Carey and her representatives themselves registered a series of copyrights with the U.S. Copyright Office giving her birth year as 1969. See http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Carey%2C%20Mariah%2C%201969-&PID=fP0n-oYpX7ii4iuV_MwmYquOAL9I&BROWSE=1&HC=26&SID=3 . I ask again: Are you going to censor this? Are her own filings with the U.S. Copyright Office somehow unacceptable to you? --Tenebrae (talk) 04:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It has been nearly a month with no reply to this. How is it possible to justify 1970 when Time Inc. specifically states it used her own driver's license, high-school records and even her management to verify her birth date? What do the "1970" sources use? They don't say -- because, clearly they can't. They didn't go to her driver's license or other records. (As well, we know she graduated high school in 1987, so it strains credulity to suggest she started her senior year at 16; no one does that unless they're double-promoted, which no one says happened with her.) --Tenebrae (talk) 20:14, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Can someone expand her legacy section

I know her legacy section is alright., But 2/3's of it is all achievements. I don't have any problem with that, but I'm wishing to expand her legacy section with influences and quotes from music critics or people about her legacy, her works, and influence in the music world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.55.119.240 (talk) 12:43, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

another typo

"he really couldn't play the keyboards very well - her was really more of a drummer" should be he instead of her.

typo

{{edit semi-protected}} In section 2.1, citation 195: "She also have rounded, ..." should be "She also has ..."

Benitobertoli (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that statement appears in a direct quote. Unless it is a misquote (which is possible, I do not have the book quoted at hand), it is generally good form to refrain from modifying quotes even for mechanics. I was about to add [sic], but it appears there are several other errors in that selection which should not be present. The passage in question is copied here for those who are more familiar with the article than I, with mistakes highlighted.

Vocal pedagogue Jeannette Lo Vetri make the same findings, stating,

"Although she can reaches alto bottom notes, she does not have a good control of the low register. Until she stays in soprano bottom range, it's easy, well mastered, but when she passes in mezzo or contralto low range, the sound is unhealthy. In contrast, she possesses a superb top. It's crystal-clear—thought sometimes it's breathy—it's effortless, agile, sweet, and luminous. She also have [a?] rounded, warm, full medium and upper chest register, especially in 1996. Though the medium is often breathy and thin—for example: "Butterfly", "Without You" or "Against All Odds"—and that her highest notes in upper chest register sometimes sounds strained and raspy—like the high E's in "Butterfly", the high F at the end of "Prisoner" or the high D's at the end of 'Make It Happen' [sentence fragment]."

Intelligentsium 03:08, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Please explain to me what exactly is the difference between mezzo-soprano bottom and soprano bottom? I know contralto bottom ranges from about A2 to C3 but isn't the mezzo-soprano bottom note D3. Because if that's the case, D3 is a rather easy low note for her to sing: it may not have been easy for her early in her career but it's certainly an easy note for her now. Sorry but I really want to understand this: it's on record that she's sang E2 in the studio and G#2 live. What is an unhealthy low note? Is it a low note that's very quiet and not very full or is it a low note that's being forced and it's the verge of vocal fry? Elemental5392 (talk) 16:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

1980s-1990s? Why does it say that she started in the 80's? I was born in the 90's and I don't remeber even hearing her name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.82.187.246 (talk) 05:13, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't say anywhere that her career started in the 80s. If you're referring to the section that says 1988 - 1992, that's to indicate the start of her recording contract/career. Her first album wasn't released until 1990, as the article states. SKS (talk) 05:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

This IP user has been almost exclusively changing 1990s years to 2000. --Jtalledo (talk) 13:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Lol. Yes. Novice7 | Talk 13:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I haven't heard of her until the 2000's and I was born in the 90's. Does she still sing?

Sorry if I hurt you. Yes, she still does. She was actually more famous in the 90's than in the 2000's. Novice7 | Talk 07:39, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Graduated high school in 1987

Prior to the announcement of the pregnancy, I had always read that Wikipedia listed her as being born in 1970. However, I believe she actually was born in 1969. American children are typically 18 upon graduation; the Wikipedia article never specified her graduate year, though these links cite 1987 here, here, and here. It makes more sense, as I had always wondered how she would of been able to move to New York City, attend and complete 500 hours of beauty school, and still have enough time to meet the producer so fast. It's not impossible, but it seemed unlikely since if she were born in 1970, she'd have graduated in 1988. She met the producer in 1988. Estheroliver (talk) 03:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I've since added the fact about high school to the article with the aforementioned sources. Estheroliver (talk) 03:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

According to IMDB, she was born in 1969, not 1970 96.50.1.48 (talk) 23:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

This page cites 1970. IMDB isn't always accurate because any registered user is free to add information to the website. Spelling Style (talk) 02:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Mariah has more number 1s than elvis!!

"Carey earned her eighteenth number one single on the Hot 100, which ties her with Elvis Presley for the most by any solo artist" this is wrong, elvis has 17 number 1s!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_reached_number_one_in_the_United_States — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 16:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Muammar Gaddafi

For information : http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23cables.html?_r=1 http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/beyonce-mariah-carey-and-usher-performed-at-qaddafi-family-parties-20110224 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.170.96.81 (talk) 13:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, so what. I don't see how this is of great interest. This is Wikipedia, not a gossip magazine or a newspaper. Others might think different, but I think this is insignificant. Urbanus Secundus (talk) 05:12, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

hsn collection?

should we mention mariahs hsn collection? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 21:57, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

What are HSNs? -- Hoary (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

her home shopping network collection — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 18:42, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

personal life

{{Edit semi-protected}}

Personal Life

Mariah Carey is as active online as she is in the real world. She has established a presence across many different forms of social networking sites such as Facebook, Twitter, Myspace, and her own website.

Her twitter account (as of March 3, 2011) is ‘twitter.com/MariahCarey,’her myspace page is 'myspace.com/mariahcarey.' and her fan page on Facebook is under ‘Mariah Carey.’ She also has her own website, ‘mariahcarey.com,’ and takes personal responsibility in updating professional and personal aspects of her life onto each site. Her mixture of promoting her career as a singer, entertainer, and socially responsible role model with her personal and private life has successfully generated masses of fans from all over the world. Mariah is just shy of four million followers on Twitter and around the same number of fans on her Facebook page.

This is an important cultural spectacle due to its communicative and connective nature amongst a celebrity and their fan. Through such channels of communications, Mariah Carey as a celebrity is able to express public and private affairs at her own discretion and allow those that would normally not have access to Mariah Carey’s personal issues have equal access to it as anyone else with such devices or online accounts. Not only are information regarding Mariah Carey made more readily available to the public, but it is an on-going live activity. Her updates on Twitter and Facebook, especially, are able to produce thousands of responses and feedback from her fans within minutes or even seconds.

Looks to me like no more than a long-winded and puffy way of saying that she has a website and the routine web folderol (Twitter, Facebook, whatever) that allow her to market herself and keep the fans happy. How does this distinguish her from other singing celebs? -- Hoary (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Hoary. Sorry, can't add. Novice7 (talk) 10:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Work needed

Hello everyone! This article currently appears near the top of the cleanup listing for featured articles, with several cleanup tags. Cleanup work needs to be completed on this article, or a featured article review may be in order. Please contact me on my talk page if you have any questions. Thank you! Dana boomer (talk) 15:44, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs a ton of work. I will volunteer to c/e it, fix the sourcing and re-craft it. I just need some time. Please bear with me before nominating it for review. Thanks!--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 02:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Typos in Timbre and Technique subsection?

This next bit looks like a typo unless I'm misunderstanding how some technical music words are used. It says "adding that belting and head voices has a great brightness" but surely the word voices is plural so it would be "have a great brightness"? Cloveapple (talk) 07:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Voice section

MC's voice section is chock full of false sources and quotes. Example: "According to Spanish soprano Montserrat Caballé, "Carey is such a musician. Perfect timing, divine accuracy, subtle and refined phrasing, melismas always connected to the rhythm and structure of song, infaillible ability to etablish and resolving musical ideas and theme and effortless combination of climax and resolve." —Preceding unsigned comment added by BEBACB (talk • contribs) 14:11, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Also would someone please change this 'She can also phrase in that register. And the greatest thing about her whistle is that she use it for express different moods and feelings. She is the only pop singer who do that' as this is not appropriate grammer for an English encyclopedia. I tried to change it only for it to be reverted by GFHandel on the grounds that the data from the citation must be EXACTLY the same, which I agree it does but that does not mean it cannot be re-worded so that it reads appropriately. As long as the key data is not spoiled it should make no difference, I was hardly vandalising the page nor was I writing false data I was merely doing what any decent editor would, tidying up bad language. I am not getting into an edit war over this but I would advise anyone who cares about the standard of the page to change it. BrotherDarksoul (talk) 02:28, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

So you agree that the wording must "be EXACTLY the same" and that it can be "re-worded"? I'm hoping that the quote was mistyped (and therefore can be corrected), however I don't have access to the source. Perhaps we can wait a few days until an editor with access to the source can check the wording? GFHandel ♬  01:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Doh, that was a typo, I meant not exactly the same, as long as the main data is not spoiled or manipulated in any way other than a minor tweak of the wording. I would like to see this source, especially if the comment above is correct in that there is misinformation on the page. BrotherDarksoul (talk) 08:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

14th Studio Album, new news 7/6/2011

Reports are surfacing that Mariah is releasing her 14th studio album at the end of 2011. Don't know whether it is worth mentioning or not? calvin999 (talk) 11:44, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, have you got a reliable source? Jayy008 (talk) 11:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

A quote from Nick Cannon: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2011/05/15/2011-05-15_mariah_carey_planning_to_release_a_new_album_this_year_singer_recorded_it_while_.html calvin999 (talk) 18:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

It really is still too early to add. All we know is that she's "recorded material during the pregnancy" and "hopes to have material out by the end of the year." I say we wait until more details and information are made known. If you would like, then add 2 lines about how she is working on it, no more though.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:53, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

If you think it's too early then I won't add anything :) calvin999 (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll added a little something something :) Check it out.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 23:41, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Cool thanks :D calvin999 (talk) 12:59, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

she said in life and style magazine that the new album is coming soon

I also wrote a charity record called "Save the Day" with my friends Jermaine Dupri and Randy Jackson that will be on my new album, coming soon. nick cannon told perez hilton that the album is like her first 2 albums http://perezhilton.com/2011-06-07-nick-cannon-talks-mariah-careys-new-album

Edit request from 76.248.92.39, 15 May 2011

(1968-03-27)March 27, 1968 76.248.92.39 (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Please provide a source for the Birthdate. Novice7 (talk) 13:58, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

mariahs birth date finally confirmed

mariah has stated on her twins birth certificates her date of birth as 27/3/1970 http://www.mariahjournal.com/picturegallery/2011/0518-twins-bc/bc2.jpg http://www.mariahjournal.com/picturegallery/2011/0518-twins-bc/bc1.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 11:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

MC gives the info for the birth certificate so she could lie. I clicked the link you posted. They dont work. 71.191.244.33 (talk) 01:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey People participating the MC wiki project

do you have any pictures to be inserted in her Legacy section especially a picture with her and a rapper to flly justify her legacy in the Pop RnB Hip Hop rap collaboration. And I think her Legacy section needs to expanded with influences and not those lame achievements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs) 18:08, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

here is a page from mariah daily journel that is filled with celebrity quotes http://www.mariahjournal.com/infozone/quotes/celebquotes.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 19:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks anyways for the site, but that site is not that reliable. I mean wikipedia don't claim or accept sources from blogs, fansites,etc cause that would be biased, more likely it would be helpful if we have sources from legitimate books and legitimate sites like rolling stones, slant, those legit magazines, abcnews.com, etc etc. mtv.com., etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs) 11:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

well i have a few celebrity names melody thorton has a page on her website about mariah http://onlythemelody.com/2010/09/10/classic-mariah/ that website from mariahdaily says the magazines where the quotes come from —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 13:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm searching for pictures... As for the quotes, you could try pasting them on the Google Search. It might help. I'll look through the Mariah Bio I have. You can try Google Books and Google News Archive. Btw, you both should sign your posts using four tildes (~~~~) Novice7 (talk) 13:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

If someone could find the pictures and legit sources that would be awesome. I did start to make a legacy section of Fantasy but it needs to be expanded, cause I've seen Madonnas songs have legacy section why not MC's? I bet All I Want For Christmas Is You, Hero, Vision of Love, and Fantasy are worthy enough to have a legacy section. As for her albums her Debut, Daydream, Merry Christmas, Butterfly and #1's(cuz it set the trend for future acts releasing compilation with #1 songs)are also worthy for having that section. I've heard that Dreamlover was one of the first to be remixed into mainstream pop and therefore set a trend for future acts in remixes especially in MC's song. Many people try to underestimate Mimi as only a Pop Diva who has Number songs, but little do they know she is really a trend maker in music and that INFLUENTIAL! People are always caught up with the Diva image and therefore not recognizing how influential and innovative Mariah is in the Music Industry.Kyogrouza 16:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs) 16:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Very good. Thank you so much for your help. Novice7 (talk) 16:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

heres some pictures. http://www.mariahjournal.com/picturegallery/index.shtml il try to search for more later but im busy right now. Popiconmc 16:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)popdivamc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs)

I'm sorry, but we can't use them. They're not free images. Novice7 (talk) 16:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKSTGbftL6I maybe this might help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 16:26, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Again, I'm sorry to say no. That is a copyright violation. Novice7 (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

i dont mean to sound rude. what can we use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 16:41, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

what about these to help.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQDtZ5ckxz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHhPhy4awIM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2Z_FG0ZbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDf1rIhRtKg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpC-cJvVRYQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Wf1cziYf0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFxaIMufgm8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipME5t8BltQ&feature=related

it says here in this article that beyonce told the author that vision of love inspired her http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/04/03/060403crmu_music (Five years ago, before a concert in Peoria, Illinois, Beyoncé Knowles told me that she started doing vocal “runs” after hearing “Vision of Love. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 14:56, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

it says on rihannas wiki page ,One of Rihanna's major influences and idols is Mariah Carey. She says, "I looked up to [Mariah] a lot and I still do. I admire her as an artist, and to [compete with her] was a moment I will never forget for the rest of my life. heres the soucre, its at the butom http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1512953/rihanna-brings-on-acting-career-with-bring-it-on.jhtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 15:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Ughmm I don't know on youtube let the experts decide, but i have a feeling wikipedia won't accept that sources. As for Beyonce it was already mentioned. As for Rihanna that's good, we can insert it in her legacy page. We need more claims and those legit sources. Kyogrouza 15:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs)

would this website be suitable? its kelly clarkson talking abot mc http://popdirt.com/miffed-clarkson-defends-mariah-sneers-at-critics/20148/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popiconmc (talk • contribs) 17:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Again that website is not acceptable for Wikipedia. Try searching claims from Newspaper, Magazines, News site. Those that have names like Denver Post, Slant Magazine, NY times, Herald Sun, People, MTV news, Any US or UK publications(legit only) etc. etc. I think that would help. Kyogrouza 10:30, 23 May 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs) 10:10, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

The article says, "she returned to the top of pop music in 2005 with her album The Emancipation of Mimi.[3][4] The album became the best-selling album of the 2000s decade..." ... That is not even close to true, see: http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2009-12-08-musicdecade08_ST_N.htm ... The article, perhaps should read, "...became HER best-selling of the 2000s..." Also, 2000s decade is redundant. I'd fix it myself, but the article is semi-protected or some garbage, of course going against the whole point of being Wiki, but, hey, who cares when a small club can dominate and completely control all of the information on the site, as that is far more important than sticking to your mission statement and original intent. Anyhow, yah, that clear, erroneous error should be fixed. --75.85.65.1 (talk) 17:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Legacy Page Expansion

Anyone is free to add any articles claims and sayings about Mariah's influence and legacy. With helpful sites we can construct a more diverse but verifiable of course, legacy section. I would also like to add, if any one could start creating a paragraph about Mariah's diva behavior by saying, "Carey is also a subject of public scrutiny due to her alleged diva behavior(source) that has often played out numerous parodies(source) and is often a subject to pop culture humor.(source)" And sayings of Critics(ex.from N.Y.Times). Sayings. Sayings from colleagues. Examples. Notable Examples from Mad Tv. Glitter. and Etc, etc. I hope someone knowledgeable enough could start this one. Thanks. Kyogrouza 12:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by REGICUAZA (talk • contribs)

in nicki minaj's song 'girls fall like dominoes' there is a lyric 'I'm feeling like a diva then I hit Mariah Carey'

heres some diva romours http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-556452/Viva-La-Diva-Mariah-Careys-outrageous-demands-dog-chauffeur-100-pairs-shoes-1-000-throne.html

about.com Top 10 Pop Music Divas of All Time http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists/tp/popdiva.htm num1 mariah

Mariah Carey has more #1 pop hits in the US than anyone but the Beatles. She is a winner of five Grammy Awards. After her career seemed to be fading in the early 2000's, she returned with the hit "We Belong Together" spending 14 weeks at #1 and becoming one of the biggest pop hit singles of all time.

Close to losing its FA status if bias isn't addressed.

I have a few major problems with how this article has been edited and would like to say that if the article isn't cleaned-up, it shouldn't have the privilege of being a featured article. Already, there are grammatical mistakes, poorly referenced sources that are not in line with WP's policies, and biased statements that have been added by a few editors who seemingly don't place an emphasis on reputability.

I don't have any problem with adding additional information as long as it is correctly sourced and comes from a reliable reference. My history as an editor reflects that. Howeve, One user whom I have seen edit this article quite a bit (and go into editing violations) seems to not want to abide by Wikipedia's policies of WP:LEAD, WP:PEA, or WP:3RR. Just today, they reverted by edit which deleted information in the lead that directly contradicts what is already in subsequent sections. This user is REGICUAZA. This user has already been warned and blocked for vandalism in the past. I have tried to reach out and explain their behavior, but they haven't taken any of my or other users' comments into consideration. Ignoring grammatical errors and placing biased or un-sourced information into the article has damaged its reliability, and has done serious damage to the criteria required for FA's, per WP:FACR. Now, I do not have enough time to undo all the edits this user has made. Even the ones I have reverted have been to no avail since they it right back. I have already reported them for the three-revert rule, but I need assistance in keeping this article featured. One user shouldn't jeopardize that. BalticPat22Patrick (talk) 20:41, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Non Neutral Additions

I'm going to ask REGICUAZA to revert what he/she has placed into the article again. Re-adding what another editor has just removed is edit warring. The Bold, Revert, Discuss guideline is much more helpful. To explain why I removed what was added;

• Phrasing like "amassed" is not neutral as it is suggesting a very great number in a very imprecise manner. "Many" would tell a more accurate and neutral story just as adequately. What would be even better is an exact figure.
• Ending a sentence in "among others" tells the reader nothing factual, only that the writer would like to suggest more without going into details they can't, or won't support with cites. It is also redundant when the sentence starts out with "including..", i.e. "here is a small selection of names". There is no need to then expand the selection to include everyone else as an after-thought.

--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'm wrong, I'll changed amassed to many.

But on the "among others thing", It's not that bad, it's neutral as it is. LET'S face it. She has influenced many singers, AND if I'm the reader I'm going to ask. "Are these persons are just the only ones that Mariah has influenced?" seriously NO!. So the among others thing, gives the reader's that they are not only and there IS MANY! :D but its too pointless to name them all.

What I am trying to get in to you is that Upto Britney and Missy are not the only artist that Mariah has influenced in her works. there are many. I hope you get this, and not try to be a super literate *****, like you know everything. Peace.

And honestly I'm ok with your corrections as long as you're corrections are not meant to be disrespectful to Mariah(you know you make this edits, making them dull because you hate her or by any reasons you hate her). If your deep personal intentions are not like that, I'm ok. :D Kyogrouza 16:22, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Weird warbling noise

Okay, so is there an actual name for the weird high-pitched warbling noise she makes when she sings sometimes? --71.237.183.68 (talk) 03:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

That's no warbling lol. It's called a Whistle register. Novice7 (talk) 04:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

False Sources

There are a bunch of false sources in Mariah Carey's Voice section:

"Voice experts praise Carey's vocal technique, stating that she can deliver "pinpoint" staccatos,[206][207] "always keeps a neutral larynx position—except sometimes in her lower register" and "glides effortlessly from bottom to top and vice versa."[207] Her mastery of melismas and legato is also very praised.[206][207][209] Malcolm Walker adds her vocal lines are "very well led, especially in piano register." According to Spanish soprano Montserrat Caballé, "Carey is such a musician. Perfect timing, divine accuracy, subtle and refined phrasing, melismas always connected to the rhythm and structure of song, infaillible ability to etablish and resolving musical ideas and theme and effortless combination of climax and resolve." — Preceding unsigned comment added by RealFCN (talk • contribs) 17:27, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

In what way false? Please explain. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:32, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

In other words, these people never said such things, and books that don't exist or have nothing to do with/do not even mention Mariah or the said people are cited as proof. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RealFCN (talk • contribs) 00:47, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. You may have a point. The cite to the book by Anne Peckham is suspect for a start. It claims the content is on p310, but the index on Amazon only goes up to page 116. I'll do further investigation... --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Nothing biggie

Does anyone noticed the photo in the legacy section looks unflattering? I find the picture a downgrade compared to what the great things the legacy sections says. This is nothing big, But knowing Mariah, if she ever sees this page she will be a little unhappy of that unflattering photo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.108.179.95 (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Her fathers Ethnicity should be Afro-Venezuelan & African-American

Mariah's father is of Afro-Venezuelan and African-American descent just to be correct.

What is that supposed to mean? Does he have ancestors who lived in the USA and then traveled to Venezuela, as well as other ancestors who came directly from Africa to Venezuela? Unless his geneology is described with more details, the current description just raises more questions than it answers. Why not put simply "African-Venezuelan", "African and Venezuelan", or "Afro-Venezuelan"? Marzolian (talk) 03:01, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

207.237.184.67 (talk) 17:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

 Not done, source?--Jac16888 ^Talk 17:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Boyz II Men photo

{{edit semi-protected}} The text next to the photo of Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men says 'Boz II Men'. Can someone change that to Boyz II Men? Maarten Brandts Buijs (talk) 17:21, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done, thanks for pointing it out--Jac16888 ^Talk 17:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Year of Birth

Since there's apparently so much disagreement over her year of birth, why isn't the dispute/discrepancy at least mentioned in the article, rather than just sort of randomly picking one of the two disputed years and presenting that one as correct? Derekfnord (talk) 19:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Voice Section

There are a LOT of false sources in the Voice section of her page, such as the comments from opera singers Montserrat Caballé and Juan Diego Florez. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.19.99.121 (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

EDIT ADDED by Mike King Mariah Carey's vocal range is actually 7 octaves...reference->booklet in her self titled album "MARIAH CAREY" regarding the song "EMOTIONS". Feel free to check it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.41.70.85 (talk) 15:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Needs a Review on this article's Featured status

This article has gone updates since the last Featured Article Review in 2007. I wonder if this article is consistent with FA criteria. --George Ho (talk) 05:37, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

American Idol $17 Million

It was released along with her promo for American Idol, that Mariah Carey will be making $17 million on American Idol, $2 million more than Jennifer Lopez did last season. Here is the most recent article to prove this:

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/mariah-carey-s-awkward--idol--promo-pose.html

Please change Mariah Carey from making $18 million to making $17 million on the "2012: Fourteenth studio album, American Idol, and return to acting" section. Thank you! 76.189.253.72 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done - A Yahoo article does not give precedence to the countless reliable news sites that have reported $18 million as the figure. As it so happens, its 5 more than Lopez's first season and 3 more than her last. Just to give you an idea, look here to see what I mean.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 02:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Marking as answered. RudolfRed (talk) 01:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 August 2012

In the "2012: Fourteenth studio album, American Idol, and return to acting" section, the last sentence reads:

The following day, Carey posted the official single cover for "Triumphant (Get 'Em)" and announced that the song will have it's world premiere on August 2, 2012

"it's" should be changed to "its"

Done FloBo A boat that can float! 07:57, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

General infobox question

Hey editors. Do we usually refrain from listing spouses and children in musical artist's infoboxes? I noticed that a lot of bio pages have them, but they seem to usually be just actors or personalities. Should we include them here?--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

There's a policy on this. WP:BLPNAME. It's a judgement call. If the article subject is the kind of celeb in the habit of discussing their children's lives in their involvement with the media, then it probably adds detail to other info in the article. But if they make a point of keeping their children's lives private, then it probably shouldn't be there. Unless, of course, there's some over-riding facts that make the children notable. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:54, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

So what do you think? Should we list this here?--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 23:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. Does Carey parade her family in the media? Are there good sources for the information? Personally I'd leave them out, because I believe children have a right to privacy, and having a famous parent doesn't negate that. But it looks like Cary's children meet the usual requirements for being listed. She has happily shared details of their lives with the media, so Wikipedia shouldn't pretend they don't exist, or that their information isn't public knowledge. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

BADFINGER?

Badfinger did NOT popularize Harry Nillson's Without You which Mariah covered. Harry Nillson did! Jeez, cultural history folks...The fact that they "wrote it' is meaningless, it was Nillson whom she covered not Badfinger!"On all but his earliest recordings he is credited as Nilsson. He is known for the hit singles "Everybody's Talkin'" (1969), "Without You" (1971), and "Coconut" (1972). Nilsson's career is also notable for the fact that he was one of the few major pop-rock recording artists of his era to achieve significant commercial success without ever performing major public concerts or undertaking regular tours." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Legopisstoo8dick (talk • contribs) 23:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Collaboration with R. Kelly

It's been confirmed that Mariah is collaborating with RnB singer R. Kelly on a song/duet together. Not sure if it's for her upcoming studio album or not.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a409177/mariah-carey-records-duet-with-r-kelly.html

Perhaps the main article should be updated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.252.33.177 (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

That's exactly the point. Until we know more nothing should be included. Also, remember that this is her main bio page, not for her new album. We'll include only the most important aspects of the release as they become available.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 00:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Exactly we don't know what the two were working on or for what project yet. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 ^[talk] 08:58, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Typo in the E=MC2 section

At the beginning of the E=MC2 section, the articles reads, "When asked regarding the album title's meaning..." It should read, "When asked about the album title's meaning..."

C. David Moye (talk) 17:42, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

October 2012

Please change the link from [[AT&T]] to [[AT&T Inc.|AT&T]] for simplifying disambiguation, per Talk:AT&T#Incoming links to AT&T. 12.153.112.21 (talk) 02:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Not done: AT&T Inc redirects to AT&T and the talk section you point to does not have any consenses that links should go to AT&T Inc. RudolfRed (talk) 17:25, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Mariah's sister's name

Is "Alison" (one l) not "Allison" (two l's). (among many others, including Google's autocorrect of Allison Carey to Alison Carey

Also, she is referenced in the article as having AIDS -- it is clear that she is HIV+ but unclear whether she indeed has AIDS

68.117.51.99 (talk) 06:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done for now: This is a tough one. The source you cite, as well as all the other reasonably reliable ones I could find online, spell the name with one 'l'—but they're all tabloid newspapers, and I'm not confident either (1) that they're more reliable than the book by Marc Shapiro to which much of the article is cited, which spells the name with two or (2) that their respective articles aren't derived from one another. You might consider making a query at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard to get more opinions on this point. In the meantime, I don't have a clever way of resolving the discrepancy, so I think the status quo should remain. On your second point, the Shapiro book again is at odds with your request (see linked book page above). It probably would be more accurate to say "contracted HIV" rather than "contracted AIDS"—the latter seems like sloppy wording—and the source is certainly very dated in what it says, but it's the source. The best solution imo would be to find newer sources that are incontestably more reliable. If any editor who disagrees wishes to make the requested changes, I'll have no objection. Rivertorch (talk) 11:34, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

A question

"Carey began incorporating breathy vocals into her material, usually beginning the song and then building up to a "full throated" climax"

Throaty singing is a faulty singing. I think this is wrong usage of words. Full throated means supported fully by the throat, it's a faulty technique. Mariah does not support her voice with her throat, she does not have the throatiness. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 04:45, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Intro is rather racist

"Her father, Alfred Roy, was of African American and Venezuelan (mixed-race) descent, while her mother, Patricia (née Hickey), is of white Irish descent."

Does this article really need to parentheses mixed race? Is it not obvious that a person born of Black and Hispanic parents is mixed race? Do we really need a reminder? Do any other articles remind the reader that a person born of Hispanic and Black parents are (mixed race)?

And why was white Irish mentioned? Irish people are of Caucasian decent, do we need a reminder they are white? Does any other article mention a person is of "white" Irish decent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.9.236 (talk) 04:19, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

What is the criteria for being assigned the Spanish language singers tag

She has recorded three songs in Spanish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.9.236 (talk) 04:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Why Almost Home Page was redirected to this Article?

I made the page for Almost home her upcoming single that's gonna be released after 2 days why it has been removed to this page ?? Fidel 20:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Wrong information

"and has the ability to reach notes beyond the 7th and 8th octave"

This is wrong information. Her lowest is a G2 and her highest is a G#7. That makes her range 5 octaves and a semitone. The cited source for this states she has a range of 8 octaves. Unless one can provide her singing a note above G#7, this information should be removed because it's completely baloney. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 07:13, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I've seen sources for A#7. Teammm ^talk
_email 08:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

It's obviously wrong, everyone knows her highest is a G#7 she did in 2 lives of Emotions. She has not gone above it.Penpaperpencil (Talk) 06:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

"Carey began incorporating breathy vocals into her material, usually beginning the song and then building up to a "full throated" climax" - This is another wrong usage of words. Full throated means she's throaty, and throatyness is a faulty technique. And Mariah has NO throatiness in her. She doesn't support her singing with her throat. Nor she has a tight throated technique. Otherwise she wouldn't achieve resonance. IDK This page's vocal section needs some clean up. Because she has not gone above G#7, nor has a throaty singing. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 15:13, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Carey was signed in 1988, not 1987.

Various early articles state they met in 1988. Not to mention Tommy Mottola did not join Sony until 1988, he was not even at Sony in 1987.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20106787,00.html

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20114312,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mseames (talk • contribs) 03:48, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

250 million records sales?

It has been brought to my attention that a recent published article about Mariah Carey claiming that she has sold 250 million records. Now I know you might think it's an exaggeration but take note most of the artists on the List of best-selling music artists has at least 40-60% of the claimed sales where the 40-60% sales are the total available certified units. 120 million units is 48% percent of 250 million which would qualify as a new claimed sales. Bands like Pink Floyd has a 250 million claimed sales but their total available certified units is 111 million, 9 million units lower than Mariah. How come the band is able to qualify and Mariah can't? You can argue that the band started at 1967 where the certification systems didn't became good till the 80's or 90's but I could also argue that Mariah Carey has many under certified albums and singles in Asian or Latin American countries where the music industry didn't hit big till the late 80's or the 90's; where the 90's was Mariah Carey's heyday. Before Mariah's debut English speaking countries and Europe were the only relatively big music markets excluding Japan(in which Mariah is big). And after the late 80's or early 90's smaller countries in Asia and Latin America started to have a music market albeit small still would add at least a million for a total certified unit sales for Mariah.

Now let's go with the breakdown. Here I will list some points in which country I think Mariah undercertified and most of them are in Asia.

1. Japan: It says here that Carey has sold 8.9 million units in Japan. But according to Carey's discography including single sales she has an estimated 15-20 million record sales. According to the list of best selling albums in Japan, Carey has 12 million albums sold not including her MTV unplugged sales, 1990's singles sales and her 2000-2010's album, singles and DVD sales.

2. South Korea: South Korea is not even included in the list of countries to offer a total available certified units sales for artists. She and Whitney are the only foreign acts to have a million seller album in South Korea and that tells something. Her albums and singles sales pre-Gaon chart are still not certified. Her Gaon(Korea's Billboard) sales alone would account to 500,000-1,000,000 units including digital singles if correctly and carefully monitored. Her record sales in that country is estimated around 3-5 million units.

3. Other asian countries: Countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singpore, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. are not even included. I'm pretty sure she has at least 1 million record sales in each country.

Not to mention that her catalog sales increases at least 500,000-1 million records every year(a fair estimation), thanks largely to her Christmas music.

I still think this 250 million claimed sales is still an embryo but it's up to you guys if you support the 250 million claimed sales. After all her catalog sales increases every year not to mention more and more certification especially from smaller markets are going to be available in the years to come. (Maybe a year or two). I will provide two sources for the 250 million claimed sales backed by a reputable source: Source 1A, Source 1B, Source 2. (Sources 1A and 1B have the same publishers)

Cheers. And have a good day. :) Mazic (talk) 15:03, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you to open a discussion on Talk:List of best-selling music artists, then I'll give my comment. There will be also many users involve there, not only the ones who have interest in her. Bluesatellite (talk) 15:22, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I completely disagree. 250 million records? and by only one source..... This is clearly an inflation of sales. Something else, you're wrong: Mariah Carey does not sell well in the Latin American. The Latin American people know her much, but their music is not commercial as pop, rock... Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 16:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Contradiction in article

A) "Following her graduation from high school, Carey's mother remarried, which ultimately prompted her to move out from their apartment." is contradicted by an early article that states 1) Carey moved out of the home days after high school graduation in 1987 2) Her mother remarried in 1988, a year after Mariah moved out. Thus, I deleted the line.

Sources:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20106787,00.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-01-23/news/9201230630_1_mariah-carey-financial-support-stepfather

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20112018,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mseames (talk • contribs) 03:27, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Chris Nickson book being used a source

Why is an obviously biased book like Nicxkson's being used as an acceptable source? The book has been criticized for being pro-Mariah and a "fans only" book. The book is complied on magazine articles, Nickson did not have access to Carey herself.

http://www.amazon.com/Mariah-Carey-Revisited-Unauthorized-Biography/dp/0312195125 Mseames (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Can anyone take this up and research? I'm afraid for the concerns pointed out. —Indian:BIO · ^{[[[User talk:IndianBio|ChitChat]] ]} 15:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree. People magazine is a reputable source. Per them here http://www.people.com/people/mariah_carey/biography her bday is 3 27 69. Since MC came out in 1990 People has had her bday as 3 27 69. They based this not just on the info given to them by Columbia Records but also off of MC's NY ID(they got it in the 90s before the US made all drivers license and state's ID information private). Both years of 1969 or 1970 need to be included here. Thanks. 71.191.244.33 (talk) 01:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: See the #Featured article status section below discussing this topic. Like I stated there: Even if Chris Nickson is biased as a source, that, per WP:BIASED, does not disqualify him as a source. Flyer22 (talk) 08:30, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Life and Career - Derivation of first name

The song from the musical, "Paint Your Wagon", is "They Call the Wind Maria". There is no "h" on the end of the name of the wind.114.78.168.138 (talk) 12:57, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

There is a variation because of its pronunciation. 'Muh-rye-uh' as opposed to 'Muh-ree-uh'. Teammm ^talk
_email 15:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Can we change the picture? It's not very flattering and it's outdated. It isn't an accurate depiction of her current appearance. There are more recent ones that can be used, like this one. It was taken by one of her team members on her cell phone, so it should be okay to use legally, correct? http://fashionbombdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Get-the-Look-Mariah-Careys-Twitter-American-Idol-LWren-Scott-Red-Sleeveless-Dress.png

No. A picture needs to be there with a freely usable license at commons.wikimedia.org, or the author of the image needs to grant permission. Else it cannot be used. —Indian:BIO · ^{[[[User talk:IndianBio|ChitChat]] ]} 05:26, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, but it's just a picture taken on her cell phone....it's not some official, photo shoot picture.

Please refer to Wikimedia commons picture policy and non-free content criteria. That image is not free and belongs to Mariah. —Indian:BIO · ^{[[[User talk:IndianBio|ChitChat]] ]} 08:43, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Album title confirmed

Mariah's new album is going to be called "The Art of Letting Go" as confirmed by Jermaine Dupri here: https://twitter.com/jermainedupri/status/346823703553777664 Can someone please include this in the subheadings as well as the title please? LullabyGirl (talk) 10:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)LullabyGirl

Pier Dominguez source unreliable/self-published, should not be used

One piece of information in this article, pertaining to Carey's performance of "Vision of Love" having the most influence on singer Christina Aguilera, cites Christina Aguilera: A Star Is Made: The Unauthorized Biography by Pier Dominguez as a reference. While Dominguez appears now to be a doctoral student pursuing serious academic work, I am concerned about the reliability of this particular source (which was published when the author was 19 years old, before the bulk of his academic career had begun). For one thing, parts of its contents read like a fan publication (consider, for example, the following: "The fact that [Madonna] approached Christina instead of Britney for a contribution to her [The Next Best Thing] soundtrack says something about whom she really respects."). Works such as these are generally not considered reliable unless the specific cited material was itself from another reliable publication, such as a newspaper. A close examination of the bibliography to this work reveals that, while some sources cited are indeed reliable, a number of them are gossip media, Internet chatrooms, other unauthorized biographies (such as this particularly confidence-inspiring one) and the like. A newspaper review points out some of the work's factual inaccuracies and inconsistencies. Perhaps most concerning is that personal emails from Shelly Kearns, Aguilera's mother, are frequently cited as sources. However, The New York Times points out that Kearns dismissed the work; if this page, published earlier the same year, was NYT's source, then, even more troublingly, it appears the author did not even attempt to contact Kearns, despite repeatedly citing correspondence with her ("No, I've never heard of these people ... A true journalist who supposedly 'researched' something so well, you'd assume, would have tried to contact us at least once to ask questions..."). Additionally, it is perhaps worth noting that his only previous publication at this point had been released by Writer's Club Press, an author mill with no editorial oversight. This work is published by Colossus Books, which is owned by Amber Communications Group, Inc., which also allows authors to self-publish work for a fee via its Quality Press imprint ("a special service-book packaging imprint for authors who wanted to self-publish their books instead of waiting to gain an interest from mainstream publishers").

In light of these troubling facts and Wikipedia's policy on unreliable biographical information about living people ("Contentious material about living persons ... should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. ... The burden of evidence for any edit on Wikipedia rests with the person who adds or restores material."), particularly the policy on self-published material ("Never use self-published sources ... unless written or published by the subject"), I recommend that the associated fact be deleted from this page, or that the citation be replaced with those from reliable works. I would remove it myself if I had access to the edit page for this article. 98.155.5.150 (talk) 01:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for this, will be verified. —Indian:BIO · ^{[[[User talk:IndianBio|ChitChat]] ]} 04:17, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The Art Of Letting Go is not accurate.

Can we remove The Art Of Letting Go as her new album title? Mariah said last week at the taping of her performance for the Macy's Fourth Of July Spectacular that The Art Of Letting Go is NOT the album title and that it was weird that they decided to make that title go viral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.52.9 (talk) 20:24, July 3, 2013

Source? GoingBatty (talk) 22:07, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

.........She said it at the taping of her performance for the Macy's Fourth of July Spectacular. I was there. She said it in between a take. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.52.9 (talk) 22:24, July 4, 2013‎

I'm not doubting that you were there and that you heard Carey say this. However, Wikipedia needs a reliable, published source before making the change. Your help in finding one would be appreciated. (Also, please sign your posts by ending them with ~~~~) Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Years Active???

The article says 1986 onwards, and it gives this link as a source. The link has nothing about when she started; it just shows a song that was used in an album released in 1989. Can anyone give clarification on that? I didn't remove the year, but I thought it was odd that the link was used as the source when it's irrelevant (or at least, it seems so). SKS (talk) 05:40, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

We cannot give her age without citation

Her birth year was given on this article as 1970, making her age 40, without the required citation. Major news outlets including the NY Daily News and CBS News (!) both give 41. Please see Derschowitz, Jessica. "Mariah Carey: I'm Pregnant", CBS News, October 28, 2010 9:40 AM and Everett, Cristina. "Mariah Carey is pregnant! Singer confirms she is expecting first child with husband Nick Cannon", Daily News, Thursday, October 28th 2010, 9:33 AM --Tenebrae (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've found three WP:RS cites that give two different ages -- Daily News and CBS News above says she's 41,while AllMusic.com says she's 40. I've given all three sources and noted that "sources vary". --Tenebrae (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

People Magazie confirmed her age with birth records, school records, and NY state ID records. Please return her DOB to 3/27/69. Thanks. 69.140.66.37 (talk) 01:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

That's good. Can you give a cite and link for where People says that? We can't do anything with a verifying cite. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed that in the interim, someone changed "1969 or 1970 (sources vary)" to just "1970". I've changed it back to the "sources vary" version. Reliable sources running the gamut from AllMusic.com to CBS to the NY Daily News give different years. Without definitive proof one way or the other, changing it to either year is POV. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Without citation, someone wrote in an edit summary today that "Carey herself" claimed the younger age. First, that's primary source. Second, stars lie about their ages all the time. Third, where is the cite for that? It's not footnoted here. By Wikipedia definition, CBS News and the NY Daily news are highly reliable sources. You cannot simply ignore WP:RS third-party sources just because they disagree with your belief. I believe if we take this to WP:RfC that the majority of editors will confirm they are indeed WP:RS third-party sources. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The problem here is you will find reliable third party sources for both years. Carey herself has done a very good job muddying the waters over this and is in no hurry to clarify. So I suspect that unless a reliable source can be bothered to do a in-depth investigation to uncover the truth, like it actually matters, we may never be able to settle the matter. Did People Magazine really do this? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Whether People went through all that, I don't know. I do know that its Mariah Carey page here says: "Mariah Carey: Date of Birth March 27, 1969. Birth Place Huntington, N.Y." It's a Time Inc. publication and generally very good about these sorts of things.

I agree with you: We completely find reliable third party sources for both years, so I don't see how we can do anything but give both years and say "sources vary". --Tenebrae (talk) 21:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Her birthday just passed on March 27. Well, these sources note she was born in 1969. Here, here, and here. Also, it's funny how it varies even on Google: this source says she's 42, yet some others still say 41. Not sure. I don't think it's something that will be resolved anytime soon, but like I mentioned before, usually it is mandated that American teens attend high school until they are 18 years old: she graduated in 1987, so she must of been born in 1969. Currently, though, we still don't have anything so definite showing the exact birth year. Estheroliver (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

[4] Here is an interview promoting debut album where she says she recorded when she was 19 (1989) and the album came out when she was 20 (1990). It implies she was born in 1970. Unless she was lying about her age back then, but I don't understand why she would.

At around 2:30

Donnie Simpson: So you're album was released when you were 19?

Mariah Carey: Um... yeah, no, 20. I recorded when I was 19.

Donnie Simpson: Okay.

--PoppleGumBop (talk) 10:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

The twins' birth certificates have just been revealed here. These documents show the mother's birthyear to be 1970. Jjmcspooh (talk) 08:32, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

That page doesn't show any documents.

Please see here- http://photos.toofab.com/galleries/moroccan_and_monroes_birth_certificates#tab=most_recent

The certificate shows 1970. Honestly, it would make sense that Mariah might have had a fake driver's license back in the day to be OLDER to sing in clubs. There would have been no reason to get a fake license to be younger at age 20. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.179.196.64 (talk) 07:44, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

The alleged birth certificates that have appeared online have already been addressed in the closed RfC discussion and elsewhere on this page. Please see, for example, the post signed "Hoary 01:20, 22 January 2014". Also, as previously noted: Hoax documents have been known to circulate on the Internet, and these particular ones aren't posted on any official County of Los Angeles site so the question arises: Where did they come from? Who outside the family could have obtained the children's birth certificates and scanned them? And if it was the family, why didn't the family post and announce it, rather than have them mysteriously "show up" at a couple of minor sites and not a mainstream publication that would have vetted them? --Tenebrae (talk) 10:06, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

[THIS COMMENT REFERS TO THE 2011/2013 POSTS, NOT THE 2014 POST AN EDITOR INSERTED ABOVE] Also, the 1970 date is relying on a 1995 book that may be outdate. People, the New York Daily News and CBS all give 1969. We need to return to the "sources vary" version. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

As well, her own Long Island newspaper, Newsday, says [5] "Born in Huntington, raised in Greenlawn" — not born in Northport. That 1995 book being cited for the 1970 birthdate and for Northport appears to be just some quickie celebrity bio with questionable research. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Sources for March 27, 1970

• 2013 A+E Networks Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• MTV Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• Yahoo! Movies Biography - confirms full birth date and location
• American Top 40 with Ryan Seacrest - confirms full birth date
• Grammy Awards 1991 - confirms 20 years old in February 1991
• The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll/Biography - "June 1993, Carey married Mottola, a man 20 years her senior." - confirms 23 years old in June 1993
• Mariah Carey's official website PLUS Associated Press - confirms 41 years old in April 2011
• Glamour Magazine - confirms 43 years old on March 27, 2013
• VH1 43rd Birthday Commemoration - confirms 43 years old in 2013
• Yahoo! Music - confirms 43 years old in April 2013
• E! Online - confirms 43 years old in May 2013
• Guardian Express - confirms 43 years old in July 2013
• New York Daily News at Picture #7 - details that Mariah's age is 43 years in July 2013 - as you can see, one of your sources has contradicted itself

All of these sources which are current and specialize in the music industry confirm her birth to be March 27, 1970. These should be given greater preference over errors in other sources. Teammm ^talk
_email 20:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I see you used People Magazine article using the 1970 birth year. Problem is, I can list twice as many People articles that point to 1969, especially early ones.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20114312,00.html , 21 in January 1991

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20111705,00.html , 22, December 1991

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20110666,00.html 24, July 1993

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20063435,00.html , 22, Summer 1991

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20135079,00.html , 32, August 2001

And best of all is the November 1993 COVER story listing her age as 24. 1993 - 24 = 1969. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.105 (talk) 00:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Also the People article you cited saying Mottola was "20 years her senior?" Mottola was born in 1949. Thus, 1969 - 1949 = 20 years.

Since there is not incontrovertible, absolute proof, either the birth year should be removed ::entirely or both included as done on other Wikipedia pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.105 (talk) 00:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Fine. I'm not going to argue or revert. However, as a journalist who realizes that celebrities have been known from time to time to lie about their age, I'm adding a footnote addressing the fact that People, Parade and others give a different date. I imagine you'll agree that we need to say something and not bury our heads in the sand and pretend these major magazines don't exist. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:38, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

• Mariah Carey early career interview in 1990 - (Video at 2:30) Mariah firsthand confirms she was 20 years old in June 1990

I don't agree due to the fact that Mariah herself and the vast majority of sources place her birth in 1970. It doesn't make sense to refer to a few outliers when Mariah herself has confirmed the other sources. Teammm ^talk
_email 02:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Actors, actresses and singers lie about their ages frequently. That's one reason we really on third-party sources and not primary sources.

I can tell you this: I've been a journalist for over 30 years, and your attempts at censoring a viewpoint you personally disagree with is irresponsible and makes my job and other journalists' jobs harder. Whoever you are — and I can tell you're not a journalist yourself — you cannot personally, unilaterally, declare that Time Inc., Parade, CBS News and other sources "don't count." We have a right to know that not all sources agree — that major, responsible news organizations give differing birthdates. To say that you, personally, refuse to even allow this in a footnote is pure WP:OWN.

So let's either bring this to mediation, do an RfC or find some other way of bringing in responsible additional parties. Because your fannish whitewashing of what major sources state — your refusal to even acknowledge these other major sources exist — is plainly wrong. Wikipedia is not censored — and censoring facts is exactly what you're doing. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, here is what Time Inc.'s People magazine itself has to say:

In response to fan inquiries about the correct date, a spokesperson of the magazine issued a statement, "we have a copy of Ms. Carey's driver's license, which lists her birthday as March 27, 1969. Furthermore, we spoke with the administrators at the high school she attended who confirmed that Ms. Carey's birthday is March 27, 1969, as did her management when we made our initial interview." [6]

So it looks like the 1970 date is wrong. People has a copy of her driver's license, and what's more, did all the additional research that a responsible news organization is supposed to do. Clearly, someone lied or misstated, 1970 wound up in Wikipedia, and lazy journalists have just copied each other.

People has a copy of her driver's license, confirmed 1969 with her high school administrators and even got it from her management. Contrary to your edit summary, that is not "unconfirmed." That's the very definition of confirmed. What do you say to all that? --Tenebrae (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's the Los Angeles Times, Sept. 25, 2009. LA Times music critic Ann Powers says Carey has "hit 40." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2009/09/album-review-mariah-careys-memoirs-of-an-imperfect-angel.html --Tenebrae (talk) 04:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and how about this: From 1987 to 1990, before someone decided to shave a year off her age, as entertainers often do, Mariah Carey and her representatives themselves registered a series of copyrights with the U.S. Copyright Office giving her birth year as 1969. See http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Carey%2C%20Mariah%2C%201969-&PID=fP0n-oYpX7ii4iuV_MwmYquOAL9I&BROWSE=1&HC=26&SID=3 . I ask again: Are you going to censor this? Are her own filings with the U.S. Copyright Office somehow unacceptable to you? --Tenebrae (talk) 04:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It has been nearly a month with no reply to this. How is it possible to justify 1970 when Time Inc. specifically states it used her own driver's license, high-school records and even her management to verify her birth date? What do the "1970" sources use? They don't say -- because, clearly they can't. They didn't go to her driver's license or other records. (As well, we know she graduated high school in 1987, so it strains credulity to suggest she started her senior year at 16; no one does that unless they're double-promoted, which no one says happened with her.) --Tenebrae (talk) 20:14, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Birth Year

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Prominent, reliable sources give both 1969 and 1970 as birth years for Mariah Carey. How should this be addressed?

• Comment The only source for Mariah's Carey birth year that cites actual, physical documentation is Time Inc.'s People magazine, a highly reliable source, which says here:

"[W]e have a copy of Ms. Carey's driver's license, which lists her birthday as March 27, 1969. Furthermore, we spoke with the administrators at the high school she attended who confirmed that Ms. Carey's birthday is March 27, 1969, as did her management when we made our initial interview."

Carey herself, in her U.S. Copyright registration, also gives 1969 here.

Given that People obtained confirmation from the driver's license, from the her date in her high school records, as well as from her management, and that Carey herself at the beginning of her career said 1969, how can this documentation be considered insufficient? --Tenebrae (talk) 13:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I have restored the article to the stable version till your reverted change can be discussed. We have been through all this in 2009 - After the publication above (that did not provided any actual documents) Mariah told reporters ..... ‘Read my bio again. We can't allow these lies to spread,’. We have book after book after book that says 1970 and only one people magazine article that has been regurgitated only in the news realm that says 1969 - no modern bios think this is correct as recently added to the article . -- Moxy (talk) 15:32, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

That very article you're citing says she was born in 1969! And Wikiepdia is supposed to use secondary sources, not primary sources, since actors and actress like about their age. So we can acknowledge her denial, but we can't cite it.

Secondly, how can you argue against People having used her driver's license? Because they didn't post it? Are you seriously accusing Time Inc/'s People magazine of lying? Where you'll believe a 1970 a cut-and-paste quickie book that never spoke with her or cited documents? If you're going to demand that People post documents you have to demand that the 1970 cut-and-paste quickie book do as well.

Thirdly, the Los Angeles Times is certainly a reliable source. And it says [7] that in 1969, Carey has "hit 40." Even her hometown paper, Newsday, gives her age as 44, here. Also CBS News and Parade magazine. Those are hugely reliable sources with deep-pocketed research and fact-checking staffs. It is unconscionable to ignore them in order to burnish a celebrity's vanity.

Did Carey herself lie to the U.S. Copyright Office when she gave her birth year as 1969? Explain that, please--Tenebrae (talk) 16:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I dont know what to say - people has never provided any of the documents they say they have seen (ever) As for copyright - what makes you believe she gave that date? We have so much on 1970 even the time of birth at 7:27 A.M. as per the interview at [www.mariahjournal.com/infozone/magazines/2006/rollingstone/index.shtml Rolling Stone on February 23, 2006]. It may be a good idea to mention that since 2006 her birth date has be a sources of contention - but we need to state that the majority of sources until 2006 and most bios and her since then say 1970 and that only a few sources that used primary documents say 1969. -- Moxy (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I think you've indeed suggested a middle ground that might be a good compromise. I do, first, need to say that as a journalist and someone who's been in the publishing business for over 30 years that no major publication, and certainly not a Time Inc. magazine, would risk libel at the worst and its reputation and credibility at the least by deliberately making a major biographical claim that wasn't true. It beggars the imagination that People would lie and say it had confirmed the date on her driver's license and her high-school records when it did not. Why would you believe Rolling Stone but not People? What's the basis of that? How is one different from the other?

RE: "the majority of sources": The number is in no way the single deciding factor: Many sources since 2006 have taken the information off Wikipedia itself. The quality of the sources is equally important. People, CBS News, the Los Angeles Times, her hometown paper Newsday and other high-quality, hugely reliable sources say 1969.

But you're right: I think one thing we can all agree on is the undeniable fact that her birth date is a source of contention among major news outlets. And that's not anything extraordinary — their true age is an issue with many performers. Might I suggest a format like the one used at Demi Moore, which reached consensus after months of debate about her birth name being "Demi" or "Demetria." Given the very similar fact-pattern here, that might well save us months of debate. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:07, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Looks like just me and you here... lets see what we can do. Got a proposal for d=some text we can add? -- Moxy (talk) 23:37, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking something like the name note in the opening sentence of Demi Moore, maybe?

BTW, I noticed on your user page when I was leaving a note on your talk page the other day that we're both on Wikipedia in the 7 1/2- to 8-year range, and both active enough to meet Master Editor requirements. That's pretty cool — I find it so much better to work with veterans who know the policies and guidelines and are just less frenetic and more open to collaboration than many newer editors ... not that I haven't worked with many perfectly good new editors, but you know what I mean. And I am really sorry we got off on the wrong foot. It happens, and I'm glad we've worked through it. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I do like that note at Demi Moore but like the layout {format) at Joan Crawford better as in you can see the publication right there without further mouse movement. -- Moxy (talk) 20:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

I also like the format at Joan Crawford. If this case was treated that way, that would be a very satisfactory explanation of her birth year dispute. Teammm ^talk
_email 00:41, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that really is something at Joan Crawford! I hadn't seen that. Good call, Moxy! W might want to avoid the term "a minority of sources" since quality counts as much as quantity, and in any case it's more neutral to give raw facts and let readers decide. So how would we say this? "March 27, 1969 or 1970"? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:52, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Moxy and Teammm. Following the Joan Crawford example, then, how about something like this.

(born March 27, 1969 or 1970)

I added AllMusic.com to the 1970s quartet of cites, since I wanted to get a respected, easy referenced online source in there. Normally, we'd do this chronologically, giving the 1969 date first, but I figured it comes first in the prose so to give some balance, however subtle, I put 1970 first in the footnote. I also used bullets rather than the indents of Joan Crawford since I thought, in such tiny type, that bullets make it easier to read. What does everyone think?--Tenebrae (talk) 23:36, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I just wanted to say Tenebrae and Moxy, kudos to you guys for this wonderful discussion on her birth year and taking the onus to come to a conclusion and consensus about it. Really appreciated. —Indian:BIO · ^{[[[User talk:IndianBio|ChitChat]] ]} 05:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I favour Tenebrae's suggestion of simply saying 1969 or 1970, and citing a selection of the best sources for both. I don't think we're likely to get a definite answer on it as Carey herself is happy to obscure things. Seems crazy to think it makes any real difference, but there you go. Personally I suspect 1969 is correct, comparing the sources and considering all likelihoods, but that's just my opinion and there nothing definite that proves either date. Admitting that upfront is being honest with the reader, and the surest way preventing a continual changing of the date. Maybe one day a reliable source will care enough to get a definitive answer that can't be discounted, but until then.... --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 08:49, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

•  Done - have added the above sources...lets see now that it is there is anyone else has a concern. Not to many of us here....so lets add it see if others are ok with the new addtion of a notes. -- Moxy (talk) 18:28, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I just want to thank Moxy for all his efforts and hard work, and for finding just the right model to adapt. As I wrote on his talk page, we transcended differences to create something bigger than the sum of its parts. When Wikipedia works truly collaboratively like this, there are few better feelings for those of us who love and appreciate research. Hats off to him. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: I added a line space, but it's problematic: Without it, the popup footnote looked jumbled. But with it, the bottom-of-page footnote looks like it has an unnecessary extra line. Maybe someone better versed in coding could fix it so it looks alright in both places? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mariah Carey's Real Birth Year!

I know 100% for a fact that Mariah Carey was born in 1970. I have been a fan of her's for 17 years now and I know her birthdate! A long time ago it was even stated as 1970 on her official website's biography of her! The only source that screws up her birth year is People Magazine! Since most people think People is a credible source they used the birth date they provided which happens to be incorrect! I have contacted people a couple of times about this matter and they refuse to change it! For some reason none of Mariah's family or friends nor her spouse have said anything to people magazine to correct this! After she gave birth to her twins in 2011 it was also confirmed that she was in fact born in 1970 and it stated that in many articles and wikipedia had changed it to 1970 and now recently I see someone has changed it once again! I would have changed it if I could since I believe it should be accurate but, It is protected from me changing it so I please ask you to change it back to her real birth date and put only 1970! I have even seen her twins official birth certificates! It says Mariah and Nick's birthdates on them! Mariah herself even signed them! I can tell it is her signature especially the way she always writes her M with a loop in the top of it and compared to her other signatures I have seen of her it is very similar! Here is the links! If this isn't enough proof for this madness to end then I suggest someone contact the woman who gave birth to her Ms. Patricia Carey and ask her! It shouldn't be that hard to confirm this!

http://mstrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mariah-carey-twins-birth-certificate.jpg (Moroccan)

http://mstrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mariah-carey-twins-birth-certificate-2.jpg (Monroe)

The website this links to, presumably yours, is the self-published site of, according to the recurring byline cross-checked with LinkedIn, one JoVonna Munns, and not a professional journalism site. While the documents look credible, hoax documents have been known to circulate on the Internet, and these particular ones aren't posted on any official County of Los Angeles site so the question arises: Where did they come from? Who outside the family could have obtained the children's birth certificates and scanned them?

And in any event, if someone were to be fudging their age, a parent could write whatever he or she wanted when filling out the birth-certificate form — it's not as if a parent is asked for ID.

The year 1969 does not appear only in People — which has been asked about this specifically, and which states it saw her driver's license when she was starting out, and confirmed her high school records with the principal and confirmed it with her manager. Her early song copyrights in the Library of Congress all say 1969 before switching later to 1970. And since she graduated high school in 1986, would she really have graduated at 16? Or started her senior year at 15?

Wikipedia operates on consensus, and this issue received a full hearing with numerous editors over the course of weeks. Credible sources give both years. It's not Wikipedia's place to choose one over the other. The most factual thing an encyclopedia can do is report both and let the reader make up his or her own mind. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Mariah graduated high school in 1987.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20106787,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.105 (talk) 00:43, 16 December 2013 (UTC)