Talk:Rachel Carson

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zinge1rd.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Erin.s.hall.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

NPOV: Banned DDT to kill people

"Where DDT is used, malaria deaths plummet. Where it is not used, they skyrocket." Whilst Silent Spring and the subsequent ban of DDT may have indeed saved many birds, it is an absolute fact that it caused the death of thousands of humans in the third world, this is made as important a fact as it should be. A quick google search for 'mosquito maleria deaths DDT ban' can verify this. LaudanumCoda 16:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Or perhaps not.

Carson's opponents have long memories, however. Websites, many established by rightwing institutions backed by US industry, claim that she was a mass murderer who killed more people than the Nazis, for example. The DDT ban was responsible, these sites argue, for the deaths of countless Africans from malaria that would have been controlled had the west not stopped making the pesticide.

The claims are rejected by science historians Naomi Oreskes and Erik M Conway. DDT was banned not just because it was accumulating in the food chain but because mosquitoes were developing resistance to it, they state. Nevertheless, groups still blame Carson for the current blight of malaria.

US climate scientist Michael E Mann offers another explanation for this perverse belief. "Those who oppose the environment movement have developed a special strategy: 'Whenever you get the chance: attack the icon.' Then you can say the whole cause must be tainted because you have thrown so much mud at the figurehead," says Mann, himself a victim of internet vilification over his climate research. "Rachel Carson is certainly an icon. Hence her treatment. Her story has so many resonances."

The Guardian

Shan246 (talk) 07:29, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

There was no documentations of birds actually dying. There was documentation of bird growth as mosquitos due carry viruses that are deadly to birds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.21.158.50 (talk) 18:08, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Death

I found an article from the New York Times that directly contradicts the cited claim that Rachel Carson died of a heart attack, instead claiming that Carson died of cancer. I'm not sure which is correct, and the Times article was a little vague about the manner of her death. It could be that Carson died of a heart attack because of cancer. However, the title of the article clearly states that she died of cancer and not a heart attack. --Nelsonwill (talk) 21:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

The PBS show American Experience did a show on Rachel Carson (I saw it January 2017). They claim that by early 1964 the cancer had spread to her brain and she was only faintly aware of people visiting her (Dorothy Freeman). Radiation treatment had been discontinued. Just as a "wake up, people!" shout, I'll point out that it is often simplistic to point to a single cause of death and it isn't accurate in many cases. I'll also point out that "heart attack" didn't mean the same thing in 1964 as it does today. It was, and still is afaik, common to claim "heart failure" is the cause of death, especially in the media where subtlety is rarely encountered and difficult to fashion.174.131.60.123 (talk) 18:12, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I watched the PBS program as well. I'm a retired RN...and a feminist...and it went straight to my heart when they reported that the MD did not reveal to her the cancer...they only revealed such things to the husbands since they were considered more able to...whatever... So goddamn sad, really. Should we try to do something about this? BTW, it is true that heart disease is listed as a number one killer because in the end it is your heart that finally stops beating... Gandydancer (talk) 18:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Her work murdered millions of people

Shouldn't that be the very first line? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 (talk) 19:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

No, that shouldn't be alleged at all -- it's likely wildly inaccurate. Malaria deaths today are well under a million per year, largely achieved without DDT, and with great gains made since 2001 using Carson's recommended methods of "integrated vector (pest) management." See here for links to World Malaria Report 2012 from WHO, and other sources: http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/world-malaria-report-2012-malaria-still-declining-but-more-resources-needed-fast/ Edarrell (talk) 01:39, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Whether the charges are true or not, they should be discussed (neutrally) in the text. A section labeled "Controversy about her work" is severely needed, or this entire article is tainted as simply a puff piece. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.206.189 (talk) 18:11, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Doesn't do her justice

According to American Experience, Carson was her family's principle bread-winner after her father died (although he wasn't much of an earner when living). Her sister died shortly after her father leaving at least a niece (and I think a nephew or two) for her to support. She had been enrolled as a full-time graduate student but started working part-time and attending graduate school at Johns Hopkins part-time and had to settle for a Master's to get a job to provide for her mother and her sister's children. This was quite an accomplishment for a woman in the late 30's, I think, but far from unique. Her niece died (in the 50's?) and she adopted her niece's son. This SHOULD be listed in the "box". It should be enlightening to read some of the nonsense on this talk page. I think the FALSE allegations which continue to be made today (2017) should be more prominent and should be more clearly refuted. For instance: the wikiarticle claims Carson didn't ever suggest DDT be banned. This is both too weak and too strong. Carson always thought that DDT was a useful tool, and should be used but NOT overused, where the good outweighs the bad. I can remember the clouds of DDT back in the 1950's that we played in, so no one in their right mind can claim it wasn't being overused. The anti-environmental movement continue to this day to push false claims about her. It's like blaming George Washington for slavery in the U.S. simply because he was our first President. Total non-sequitur. Carson's claim to fame is her pointing out that 1. The pesticide Industry was concerned principally with profits and had never studied the long-term effects of DDT on either people or the environment. 2. That our environment is important to us, and important per se.3. That the U.S. government was captured by industry and was NOT (in general) an independent body - the USDA, etc, were shills for the pesticide companies. I'll add that while the scientific community was more aware of some of the problems with pesticides, chlorinated pesticides in particular, (some government work was 'confidential' because it reflected badly on the products use) the public's attitude was that if it didn't kill you immediately, it wasn't harmful. The discovery of, and public awareness of, DDT in our blood (in part due to better technology to use in chemical analysis), its persistence and bioaccumulation in the environment led to environmental controls on its use. I don't think the article articulates these points adequately.174.131.60.123 (talk) 18:51, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Well it seems to be obvious that you are way ahead of me when I first started editing ten years ago when I read the Helen Caldicott entry. How dumb I was and yet how hard I struggled to work to get this body of information correct! I learned a lot. In many ways Wikipedia is liberal/progressive and pro women and yet it can be surprisingly anti-woman too. I hope that you will work with this article to present something more accurate and an improvement with what editors of several years ago had to work with. Gandydancer (talk) 19:08, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

TFA rerun

Any objections to throwing this article into the pile of potential TFA reruns for this year and next? Any cleanup needed? If it helps, here's a list of dead or dubious links. - Dank (push to talk) 23:43, 10 September 2017 (UTC)