Talk:Killing of James Scurlock

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

African diaspora Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Black Lives Matter Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Black Lives Matter, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Black Lives Matter on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Black Lives MatterWikipedia:WikiProject Black Lives MatterTemplate:WikiProject Black Lives MatterBlack Lives Matter articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
	This article was created or improved during WikiProject Black Lives Matter's June 2020 edit-a-thon.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Firearms Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firearms, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of firearms on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FirearmsWikipedia:WikiProject FirearmsTemplate:WikiProject FirearmsFirearms articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Nebraska / History Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Nebraska portal This article is supported by WikiProject Nebraska.
	This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. history.

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

On 3 June 2020, it was proposed that this article be moved from Shooting of James Scurlock to Killing of James Scurlock. The result of the discussion was Not moved.

Funny how intro does not mention Gardner was being held in a chokehold at the time he shot Scurlock

" Gardner initially fired two shots in the air, and then fired a shot towards Scurlock's clavicle " Also no mention of Scurlock's criminal record... I mean it proves nothing regarding this particular event, but it is for sure more credible than WaPo article guesses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.248.85.29 (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

White Supremacist? Gardner

Is there any evidence anyone can find either supporting or contradicting mainly baseless claims circulating on Twitter that have alleged Gardner is a white supremacist? Sayeb Zaman Khan (talk) 15:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just voicing my opinion, from my view, Gardener was acting in self defense, the guy was breaking into his bar and assaulting him, I mean what else could he have done you know? I just find these whole riots as nonsense, because people of all colors die everyday whether it be natural or not. There's no need to make a big deal out of it. --96.8.253.172 (talk) 03:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. I see consensus not to move this article. Pandakekok9 (talk) 14:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Shooting of James Scurlock → Killing of James Scurlock – As per loads of wikipedia articles which have Murder of instead of how they died. see this category for examples. More neutral title. Note not murder as no one convicted of it. Can be moved when convicted Games of the world (talk) 18:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose There are plenty of other similar titles such as Shooting of Philando Castile and they seem clearer per WP:PRECISION. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: See the recent multi-article RM discussions recorded at Talk:Shooting of Atatiana Jefferson and Talk:Shooting of Breonna Taylor. This would harm consistent article naming for people killed by shooting. See, for example, the articles in Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States. Also note that the OP's rationale refers to murder but the RM is not proposing to use the word "murder". If murder were clearly established, then the article title would use "murder", not "killing". The category that the proposer referred to does not seem to contain any examples of articles that use the proposed form "Killing of ...". —BarrelProof (talk) 18:50, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support – BarrelProof neglects to mention the more recent discussion at Killing of George Floyd. Arguments for consistency has no weight since that seems to be the only argument for keeping these titles that were incorrectly created into a group. This person was not only shot. He was killed which is more notable. We should establish a new consistency across all these articles which is happening across many RMs (Talk:Sammy Yatim, Talk:Eric Garner etc..) --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:26, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Floyd was not shot, so there is a difference there. We seem to use "Shooting of" for people who were killed by being shot. I haven't noticed any uses of "Shooting of" for people who were not killed. See the article naming consistency in Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:44, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per BarrelProof. "Shooting of..." is the standard Wikipedia main title header for articles focusing upon deaths of individuals as a result of firearm discharge. "Killing of..." is used for deaths not related to gun violence, such as Death of Eric Garner → Killing of Eric Garner (see currently-active discussion at Talk:Death of Eric Garner#Requested move 2 June 2020). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per consistency with many other articles of a similar nature, e.g. Shooting of Trayvon Martin, Shooting of Michael Brown, Shooting of Philando Castile, etc. The article can be renamed if and when there is a conviction. Love of Corey (talk) 20:40, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wrong coordinates

Coordinates (40.741895°N 73.989308°W) point to New York City.Wikisanchez (talk) 18:42, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

notability tag

International mention doesn't change the fact that the notability of this event relies completely on the fact it happened during the chaos of a riot. I suspect this needs to be merged into George Floyd protests. —valereee (talk) 11:05, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That page has a list of deaths but there's a tag on the article indicating that it should be split. Such a list would pass WP:LISTN as there are sources such as this. But inclusion criteria are an issue because some deaths, such as Chris Beaty, are unclear and so the association is quite circumstantial. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Davidson, yes, this shooting would be a completely appropriate entry in a list of deaths associated with the GFp. —valereee (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

“Windows were broken”

Recommend getting rid of the passive voice. Who broke the windows? It’s very relevant to the ultimate outcome and to the escalation of events. If Scurlock’s group broke the windows, just say it. If unknown protesters did it, say that. Also relevant to the escalation of events is whether Scurlock and/or his group entered the bar. --76.185.184.37 (talk) 09:53, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This page is loaded with inaccuracies.

I'm from Omaha and I noticed this page includes numerous inaccuracies.The special prosecutor has been quoted by numerous sources explaining that Gardner turned out lights and waited to ambush protesters, David Gardner assaulted three people on a public sidewalk, Gardner committed felony assault when he brandished his fire arm on a public sidewalk, Scurlock jumped on Gardner's back AFTER Gardner aimed at three different people and missed two targets by mere inches. Also, Scurlock did not choke Gardner as Gardner falsely claimed... I could go on and on. Please correct this disgusting misinformation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/prosecutor-bar-owner-wanted-to-ambush-people-stealing/2020/09/23/05a3369a-fddd-11ea-b0e4-350e4e60cc91_story.html https://fox42kptm.com/news/local/watch-live-at-noon-special-prosecutor-to-make-state-in-james-gardner-case https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/prosecutor-bar-owner-wanted-to-ambush-people-stealing/ https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/jamestown/ap-top-news/2020/09/23/prosecutor-bar-owner-wanted-to-ambush-people-stealing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.119.234.35 (talk) 19:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have accurately related Franklin's statement, but Franklin's statement appears to not be factual in important parts - I believe a link to the statement is appropriate but if added, the criticisms of Franklin, that he was motivated by politics rather than evidence (As I say, reading the statement, it is clear it is also misinforming the public, Franklin issued it after he was criticized and had a pretty strong emotional reaction to the criticism.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:1CD0:1710:155D:323:98C1:42DB (talk) 11:16, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Special prosecutor Fred Franklin released an eight-page statement about the case

This article from the Omaha World Herald includes a link to the special prosecutor, Fred Franklin's eight-page statement. The article and statement supports my complaints about numerous false and misleading statements in this page. The entire order of events and location of Gardner stated in the page are flat out falsehoods. Someone please correct the numerous errors on this page.

https://omaha.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/special-prosecutor-in-jake-gardner-case-lays-out-more-evidence-says-he-didnt-have-agenda/article_f61e3f06-780e-572a-bada-445f999719ea.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.119.234.35 (talk) 20:51, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The page is currently not protected, so you should be able to make the changes yourself. 46.97.170.112 (talk) 09:40, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The page should not be changed to present the assertions Franklin made in his report as fact, they are controversial and seem false in part, and highly speculative in part. He speculates the business owners turned out the lights then stayed inside the business so they could shoot someone breaking in, and his evidence for that is, they did not go outside to stop vandalism - but indeed, they DID go outside, to where Scurlock was shot - so, he proposes a conspiracy theory of the Garners plotting to kill the rioters, but the known facts refute this theory - which, again, was pure speculation to begin with. I am not saying Franklin's report should not be put in the article, I am saying if it is, the known falsehoods in it, and the criticism of it, should be put in also — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:1CD0:1710:155D:323:98C1:42DB (talk) 11:23, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia goes by reliable secondary sources. Not only is Franklin's statement official, it is covered by reliable sources. your argument for leaving it out boils down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. 46.97.170.40 (talk) 10:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@46.97.170.40 a biased statement is a biased statement, regardless of wikipedias policies(which can be abused) 173.184.110.80 (talk) 22:36, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Two different versions of events

Reading through this article, there are inconsistancies.

The lead basically states that Gardener approached protests, flashed his gun around and threatened to kill them before a handful of them (Plus Scurlock) fought back in fear of being killed. But the "Incident" section paints Scurlock as some carciture rioter who picked a fight with Gardner and his father before getting shot.

I'll mention that my opinion swings left here, and I believe Gardner was the aggresor in this fight, (Put crudely, he fucked around and found out), but the article can't seem to decide between opinion and fact. And frankly I don't want to deal with the stress of fixing it myself only for some right-wing IP addreess to edit war and talk me off about white genocide. So what do we do? June Parker (talk) 01:26, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]