Talk:Subtitles

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 11 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Maxxiime.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Teletext subtitles[edit]

I don't feel this article defines teletext subtitles (as used in the UK and Ireland for a deaf and hard of hearing audience) very well. Is there a possibility of a section in the article more clearly defining this element, as the article is largely dealing with the US equivalent and the existence of subtitles in foreign language film, which isn't the same as subtitling for the deaf (in their native language). I accept there are elements of this in the closed captioning article, but subtitles (as the term is used in the UK and Ireland, and Australia) is *not* closed captioning and no one looking for information on it from those countries will go to a closed captioning article. (The term is probably understood by many nevertheless, but only in reference to US television - many TV shows still have the CC embedded on screen when they are distributed. 194.46.200.76 (talk) 15:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC) Daniel[reply]

Technique of subtitling used in theatrical film positives?[edit]

Can anyone provide some information about this? How it was achieved in the past? Which techniques are in use today? By the way do we know the title of the first subtitled film? Michal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.97.224 (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I have just stumbled across a very interesting article on the matter http://www.transedit.se/history.htm I think the autor(s) should consider using the informations provided there or at least posting a link to it. Michal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.97.224 (talk) 19:48, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

History of subtitles?[edit]

Are there silent films that happen to have subtitles? When have subtiles been in use first? --Hhielscher 23:12, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There are silent films released in modern times with new subtitles, but I doubt it was used much back in the days, since it would have been easier to produce new intertitles, adapted for a foreign audience. (Which I believe was what was generally done...) 惑乱 分からん 18:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What does this mean?[edit]

A few basic rules can be followed:
  • three seconds are needed to read a line,
  • a single subtitle showing should not exceed two lines, and
  • a line of subtitles should not exceed 37 characters.

Of course the rule to exceed 37 characters can be followed. Similar rules to exceed 36 or 38 could also be followed. The statement "the rule to exceed ___ characters can be followed" is very uninteresting.

It seems obvious that someone wanted to say that these rules *are* being followed, not just that they *can* be followed, but they didn't have a reference and couldn't name the organization which follows the rules.

Can anyone fix this up before I delete it? Ken Arromdee 02:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Reading speed rules depend on target audience and conventions in each country; the two-line limitation is also not universal; and the 37 character limitation refers only to subtitles for the non-proportional teletext format. If a modern, smaller propotional font is to be used for the subtitles, you may very well fit 45-50 characters on each line.Consequently, I've removed these "rules" and have changed the whole chapter into a short decription of the subtitling process.Thomas Blomberg 14:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. The 37 character limit is interesting. Although as correctly stated, 37 characters is an absolute limit for Teletext subtitling (which is limited to 40 characters a row - and three characters are used for control characters on a subtitle), many subtitle files are prepared to this limit - regardless of presentation mechanism. The reason why there are only 37 characters on a row is to ensure a wider compatibility of the subtitle file. Authors who create wider rows (i.e. more characters) will create two problems. A) readability... B) the files will need to be re-authored for Teletext use (which is **still** the predominant usage in Europe). JohnBirch 09:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ripping of subtitles[edit]

At the end of the article we have a list of software for ripping subtitles from DVD's, followed at the bottom of links to websites that do file sharing of ripped subtitles. As distribution of ripped material is a clear violation of copyright in every country (except perhaps in Canada), and as Wikipedia otherwise is very concerned about copyright issues, I definitely don't think the external links should remain, and even the list about ripping software is questionable - especially as the whole issue about ripping isn't addressed at all in the article itself. There could possibly be a separate article regarding the issue of subtitle ripping, or the subject could be included in the existing article about ripping. This article could then have a "see also" that links to that article. What do you think? Thomas Blomberg 02:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

in Subtitles vs. dubbing[edit]

Meanwhile, moviegoers in countries where many popular films are foreign-language imports tend to be more used to dubbing, and often prefer it.

Here in sweden we always use subtitles, and the majority of the films are foreign country produced. →AzaToth 13:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That whole chapter needs a rewrite, as it's both confusing, illogical and wrong. Thomas Blomberg 15:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Uhm, in Flanders and the Netherlands most of what we watch on television is from the USA or United Kingdom, and that pretty much goes for the movies in the cinemas as well. They are almost always subtitled. (The fact that this place is crawling with Dutch and Flemish illustrates that :-) ).Evilbu 20:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Reference to British terminology[edit]

"In British English "subtitles" usually refers to subtitles for the hard-of-hearing (HoH), as translation subtitles are so rare on British cinema and TV; however, the term "HoH subtitles" is sometimes used when there is a need to make a distinction between the two." In the UK "subtitles" can refer to either for the hard of hearing or for translation purposes. I've never heard the term "HoH subtitles". I think this bit should be deleted. (The above was added by unregistered Lost4eva at 10:47 on 30 March 2006)

"HoH subtitles" is a term frequently used within the UK subtitling industry whenever you need to distringuish between those and "translation subtitles" (which is the other term often used).Thomas Blomberg 15:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Humorous use of subtitles[edit]

Thoroughly Modern Millie, the Broadway musical, uses English surtitles/supertitles for the Chinese-speaking characters, with great humour value, occasionally swapping over to Chinese when characters unexpectedly speak English. It seems to be missing from the list. (Adding this to the talk page because I am an unregistered nobody and don't trust myself to edit the main page correctly; also, there might be a better place for this.) debbiep 192.67.248.92 01:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In "Subtitles as a source of humor" should be Annie Hall, where Woody Allen and Diane Keaton are speaking and their true thoughts are rendered as subtitles. It is an example far more important than most reviewed here. I'll add it. Nazroon 14:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
and in some Austin Powers movies, objects in the background interfere with critical parts of the subtitles on purpose... Jidanni (talk) 13:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Links removed[edit]

I've removed all the external links from this article, except for the BBC news story. After going through them, they all appeared to be either links to directories of illegally distributed subtitles (which we definitely should not be linking to, as the external link guidelines make clear), or spam links to sundry software packages and companies. If you can make an actual case for including a link, I'm quite open to putting it back, but pretty much all of these links seem to be debris accumulated over time. --Slowking Man 17:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And how do you know if they are illegal if they only "appear" to be illegal? Ripping subtitles (or creating them) and sharing them through internet is illegal? And how is suppose to be a legal web page of subtitles? Please, answer because you have deleted very useful information without strong arguments. --MichaelPalin 08:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is. Unless the source is given explicit permission by the copyright holder (usually the production studio), distribution of the material is copyright infringement, as is creating new subtitles (which would be a derivative work). --Slowking Man 07:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are referring to the legality of subtitled that are recorded on the product itself. Text file subtitles are a separate product (and are not really bound with any other products) and you are in fact watching two separate products projected on the same surface. Ergo, text file subtitles are perfectly legal. --213.219.106.76 13:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, text subtitles that are a translation of the dialogue are still a derevative work (translation) of the original material, for which the studios hold the copyright. Taric25 23:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple subtitles[edit]

I think that I once saw, possibly in "Good morning, Vietnam", or some other movie about Vietnam, old movie clips with three or four different language captions used simultaneously. Has this been common somewhere? Anyone else knows anything about it? 惑乱 分からん 18:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Finland, cinematic releases of foreign movies usually have “open” subtitles in two different languages: Finnish and Swedish. Typically, two subtitle lines are used: Finnish on the upper row and the corresponding text in Swedish on the lower row.
The basis for this practice is that Finland is constitutionally a bilingual country; the official “national languages” being Finnish and Swedish. Having two subtitle languages on films shown in movie theaters allows serving the Swedish-speaking minority (about 5.5% of population) without having to print and circulate separate copies for them alone.
The same practice does not carry on to the television, though. On Finnish tv channels, there is typically only a single subtitling language visible to the viewer at any given time. Depending on the broadcast method and the broadcaster, it might be possible for the viewer to change the subtitling language with his remote, though.
Finns generally regard dubbing as something that is only suitable for preschoolage children – those that cannot yet be expected to read. For all other age groups, dubbing is usually viewed as something of an intellectual insult: a practice that demeans the artistic and cultural integrity of the original production by depriving the viewer of the original voice acting and dialogue. — Jukka Aho 02:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subtitle (captioning) & Closed captioning[edit]

WikiProject Filmmaking and WikiProject Deaf are already a part of Subtitle (captioning) & Closed captioning , however, these two articles really should be merged. Maybe WikiProject Filmmaking and WikiProject Deaf can work together to merge them. Taric25 08:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is more discussion at Talk:Closed captioning/Archives/2013#Merge. – gpvos (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

POV in form vs meaning[edit]

“Unfortunately, especially for commercial subtitles, the subtitler often interprets what is meant, rather than translating how it is said, i.e. meaning being more important than form.”

“Fortunately, ”

This is not appropriate because of the NPOV guideline. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.227.238.221 (talk) 06:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, I agree. They’re just different subtitling styles for different audiences. Whoever wrote that passage seems to be an advocate of the fansub style subtitles but neither subtitling style is inherently better than the other – both have their downsides.
“Unfortunately” and “fortunately” should be removed but the main bulk of the text that describes the differences between these two styles could remain, in my opinion. — Jukka Aho 02:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed “Unfortunately” and “fortunately” per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Taric25 17:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subtitles in main image[edit]

The spanish subtitles in the image are grammatically incorrect. It should read "...espero que a usted le gusten mis subtítulos." Nothing important, but is a little annoying to see that kind of error (although in a foreign language) in an encyclopedia. Nazroon 15:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's what it says. Taric25 03:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It looks a little silly. There's no other image to use? (On the other hand, I guess it serves its purpose...) 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 10:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The license is stupid also, and is technically being violated here, though his description would probably make the violation legally indefensible (Also the fact that he likely created the violation himself). Either way, it's basically an Old BSD-style license (With a "You have to ask me, too" clause. A bit over-encumbered for such a low-quality production. I suggest replacing it, which should be easy enough. 221.186.244.121 08:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Free Subtitles.PNG is an image I freely licensed that complies with policy, under {{Attribution}}, per commons:Commons:Licensing, and commons:User:O, the admin who violated policy by speedily deleting it after discussing it for less than 24 hours, per commons:Commons:Deletion guidelines, at the village pump, also violating policy per commons:Commons:Village pump, undeleted it by consensus at commons:Commons:Undeletion requests/Archive/2007-10. Contrary to User:CommonsDelinker, the image contains no “porn”.
In addition, I changed the wording of the license for clarity. I do not require permision for re-use, however, as a courtesy, I would appreciate it. Taric25 (talk) 09:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The image is now a Television Portal Selected picture. Also, my license requires attribution as specified on the image description page. Please do not confuse this with promotion, as removing the link is copyright infringement. Thank you. Taric25 (talk) 20:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Leet Haxors[edit]

There is an internet series called 1337 Haxxors ethat has subtitles in leet. Can someone add a reference to them? -- NaBUru38 22:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If it is noteable to subtitles as a whole, then you may add it. Othewise, it is better to add it to 1337 with a wikilink to Subtitle (captioning). Taric25 23:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Research" spam[edit]

I've removed the "New technology & Research" section twice now, with a clear description why: the two links seem like spam to me. The first one is a page without any real content: the article section is empty, the links page is broken and many pages have "Untitled document" as title. This has been like this for a long time now. The second link points to a commercial company offering some service - it has no useful content except for a "we do subtitles, hire us" message. The section containing this spam has been added by someone yet again, and I'm not going to delete it a third time because I don't want to end up in an endless editing war.

If someone could keep an eye on this that would be nice. 129.125.101.92 18:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Link suggestions[edit]

I am a professional translator who has begun to work with subtitling and, after running into many problems, did a fair amount of research on the internet; in the process I came across two really helpful articles and the well-known "Code of Subtitling Practice," the links for which I would like to share on this page if other people also find them helpful. Here are my link proposals:

European Association for Studies in Screen Translation Code of Good Subtitling Practice: http://www.esist.org/Code.pdf

Article on proposed set of subtitling standards in Europe http://www.accurapid.com/journal/04stndrd.htm

A very helpful paper on subtitling practice: http://www.peak-translations.co.uk/ChapterTwo-Subtitling.doc

Adanepst 15:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Wrong link[edit]

There are section called "For media" contain a link to DVD subtitles which redirects to the same page, Subtitle (captioning). --166.87.255.131 01:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"chattering" ?[edit]

I've seen scores and scores, perhaps hundreds of English subtitles where some background conversations are described as "chattering", which my dictionary defines as "to talk idly or rapidly" --- neither of which refers to just ordinary talking. Are all these subtitle-writers just mindlessly copying each other?! Suggest: "(Sound of people) talking", not "chattering".Jakob37 01:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For Media Section[edit]

Cleaning up disambiguation page links...in the For Media section one of the links just says Cinema, I linked it to "film" for lack of any other idea...is it supposed to link to a description of movie subtitling or is the link to the movie entry acceptable? Thanks!! Legotech (talk) 08:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subtitle formats[edit]

More software subtitle formats: http://www.urusoft.net/products.php?cat=sw Visor (talk) 12:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These are just the formats that subworkshop handles. Many important formats are missing, e.g. MPEG-4 Timed Text or all bitmap-based formats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.31.172 (talk) 20:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Ogg_Writ page has, Two other possible replacement codecs for timed text in Ogg are CMML and Kate. Should those be added to the list of formats? skm (talk) 17:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The table should be updated to include recent formats such as TTAF1 and DFXP.[1] Deprecated formats should be marked as such (or removed?). For example, Writ is no longer supported. This page is currently inactive and is kept primarily for historical interest. [2] skm (talk) 17:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/
  2. ^ http://wiki.xiph.org/Writ

Lead picture and self-promotion[edit]

Ad. diff. The license of the picture requires Taric's name and link to his website, but both of them are non-notable for the subject and thus these informations should be deleted from the article. Is it a sneaky spam? For further discussion, go to Wikipedia_talk:Spam#Image_copyright_&_spam. Visor (talk) 18:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just a question[edit]

In the table section where notated that subtitles may be "Editable" Hard subs are listed as NO, where would not the proper caption be as its partner a "Difficult, but possible"? The same tools that remove logos from video rips are also used by people (myself included) to remove/edit subtitles on VCDs. Lostinlodos (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No SMIL ?[edit]

Why is no mentioning made of Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language? for Webcasting products ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.51.28.160 (talk) 08:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Language codes[edit]

Is there an extension of ISO language codes for subtitles? For example, how would I tag English subtitles for the hearing impaired? I've seen codes like en-HI or eng_SDH, but is there a standard?--87.162.31.172 (talk) 20:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[T]he two braces (“{{” and “}}”) are uncommon, since most closed caption identifiers use parentheses (“(” and “)”) or square brackets (“[” and “]”).

Yeah, that struck me as hinky right off the bat, too. I’m sure some of the newer decoders can display curly brackets, but… I’ve never seen them used in a programme. Somebody’s gotta fix that. —Wiki Wikardo 05:39, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Colours as used in DVB subtitles[edit]

This article seems very focussed/structured around production of subtitles. I looked for lists or analysis of the various ways used to distinguish speakers (colours, positioning, naming,...) but can find nothing about the styling of subtitles themselves, or the nontext ways to convey information. The whole thing seems tunnel visioned on the act of converting speech, rather than enhancing the viewer's experience. The word colour/color hardly appears on the page at all. Am I reading the wrong article? Shannock9 (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The Colour used for the subtitled text is as important as the text- if the colour of the subtitles matches the colour of the film it can not be seen- I have watched far too many subtitled films where the text colour had far too little contrast with the background colour. Imagine a film about skiing where the subtitles are in white, and as such are the same colour as the snow that is the background for almost every scene. The example image used in the main article address this issue by using yellow text with a black border, so had the image in question been mostly yellow the black border would be seen, giving a high contrast. The best I have seen is that the white text in in a 50% transparency black box. Regardless as the the actual item the text it over, it always retains enough contrast to be easily visible and quickly read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bat Flattery (talk • contribs) 16:49, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Repetition[edit]

This article to me seems to repeat the same info in lots of diferent places. I think it needs a good copy edit. I am happy to do this, perhaps I should put it in my sandbox so it can be reviewed there? SimonTrew (talk) 16:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sign Language[edit]

On UK television, programmes are sometimes broadcast with a presenter simultaneously translating into British Sign Language. I am not sure that this should be included here, since it is not, except in the broadest sense of the term, subtitling— but perhaps a brief reference would be in order? SimonTrew (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Initial picture- colours of subtitles[edit]

Since subtitles (in some countries) use different colours for different characters, can we recolour the second line? I suggest cyan (00FFFF). SimonTrew (talk) 00:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exceptions e.g. Children movies[edit]

The article lists Sweden among other as a country where subtitles are used, which is usually the case, however, movies targeting children such as cartoons and similar are always dubbed or have at least a dubbed alternative to the subtitled one. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the list? Daniel 83.254.131.36 (talk) 20:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's worth saying. Hard to give a reliable source here if it spans a wide area. I remember watching Sesame Street in Spanish when I was younger, which is rather odd as I was in the UK, perhaps they just got the wrong tapes or something. I still remember it being Agua not water. SimonTrew (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed now that it is actually mentioned in the paragraph directly above list. I guess it's not needed then since it would probably just bloat the list even further. If anything, maybe it should somehow be a bit clearer than it is now. -- Daniel 83.254.131.36 (talk) 15:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see where you mean but I can't think how I would move this without giving undue weight to it. Have a go, change it yourself, it will soon get changed back if it's that bad! SimonTrew (talk) 15:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dubbing[edit]

As a German, I would strongly favour mentioning that dubbing usually leads to a drastic quality loss through poor acting, which is a major disadvantage. A further complication is that the translations for dubbing are often made to match mouth movements, rather than contents. Examples of this include "you may reprocure your vehicle" being turned into the equivalent of "drive your piece of junk away" and "Are you resisting arrest?" to "Who is hopping around?". (Yes, I am being quite serious.) Notably, those Germans who have once learned to listen to movies in the original language find it extremely frustrating to go back. 88.77.148.211 (talk) 10:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a Brit whose German is only moderate, I find I can understand German TV if and only if it has German subtitles. I have heard that this is true for English as a second language also.

Separately, three of my four grandchildren learned to read from the (English) subtitles to English childrens TV - we just left them turned on to see what would happen :)

Why these anecdotes? I reiterate my point that this article is too focused on subtitle production and says little or nothing about subtitle consumption. Shannock9 (talk) 10:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Banning of subtitles[edit]

I've read that once upon a time subtitles were banned in Indonesia! Does anyone know why? What would be the motive for banning subtitles? Have they been banned in other countries? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.187.69 (talk) 07:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Open substibles[edit]

Open substitles also means open source substitles as in OpenSubtitles.org. --Diamondland (talk) 12:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* utf subtitle file[edit]

I suggest include information about the *.utf substitle file. ( See [1]).--Diamondland (talk) 17:37, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

History of Subtitling[edit]

I am surprised that there are no references as to who invented it and when and how it has evolved, I would be very interested in that information and overall I think it would be really relevant, so far what I have read seems somehow more like a guide and not so much an encyclopedia article, still, very informative but needs improvement... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.29.151.143 (talk) 23:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TTML?[edit]

It seems like TTML should be included in the format table; it's now the W3C standard format for subtitles, after all. --Sacolcor (talk) 14:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

English variety[edit]

The article has "programs" and "programmes". Dominant variety seems to be US English. Glrx (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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hard subtitles vs soft subtitles[edit]

hard subtitles are mixed with the video, soft subtitles are a separate data file you can close — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4107:9B00:E1F3:636C:4A40:C28D (talk) 20:31, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No reference to the use of subtitles to translate foreign dialogue in some European news broadcasts[edit]

In some European countries (e.g. Denmark), subtitles are used to translate foreign dialogue in news broadcasts instead of voice-over translations. Could someone please add information about this? Zakawer (talk) 12:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

removed section to subtitle websites[edit]

I have removed links in the section as they are not directly related to the article's encyclopaedic content and the linked sites just seem to be movie subtitles of what would be copyright dialogue. The links do not improve the article. Please see Wikipedia:External links for what would be considered an appropriate link. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:34, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Subtitles in the United States[edit]

The article had said that in the United States, subtitles are "required by U.S. Federal Communications Commission for licensed English-language channels when program is in another language". This doesn't sound right to me. If, for example, an English-language U.S. broadcast station wanted to show, say, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with an English-dubbed soundtrack rather than with English-language subtitles, does it make sense that the FCC would prohibit that? I've never heard of that before. That doesn't sound like the kind of issue the FCC gets involved in. (The FCC is very concerned about closed captioning for the hearing impaired, but that's a different situation.) If I am wrong and there really is a U.S. regulation requiring subtitles instead of dubbing, someone can provide a source to prove that. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the program were broadcast with an English dubbed soundtrack then it would not be in 'another language' and the provision would not apply. Bonusballs (talk) 14:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but does the provision even exist? If an English-language TV station wanted to show a foreign-language program, with no translation into English, late at night, in order to cater to a local immigrant community that lacked a TV station in its own language, do FCC regulations prohibit that or require special permission? Where is the regulation that addresses that issue? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 February 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 15:36, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]


– This is the primary topic here. Pageviews and google hits show that. Many articles are in Category:Subtitling which is about this. Subtitles already redirects here. Etc. In my opinion, Subtitle (titling) should be moved to Subtitle (publishing) as per Title (publishing). I'd also be in favor of deleting Subtitle in favor of a hatnote on this article. wumbolo ^^^ 17:01, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY (page views) and nom. -- Whats new?(talk) 03:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, of course. Per primary, common sense, and WP:ITSABOUTTIME. Thanks to the nominator for moving this logical move forward. Should add the titling link as a hatnote.Randy Kryn (talk) 12:00, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - as WP:NOPRIMARY. Subtitles (as in books) has longer-term significance over this topic, so neither should be primary. Also, due to the regional differences, and no immediate WP:COMMONALITY solution, the current title makes the topic clearer. Subtitles (as in movies) are called captions in a significant part of the English-speaking world. With the current NOPRIMARY situation, we can very easily catch and correct incorrect links. If we move one or the other to primary, the incoming links will need constant attention. -- Netoholic @ 04:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 7 October 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 22:55, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Subtitle → Subtitles – Seems to usually be referred to in the plural tense. Unreal7 (talk) 22:45, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, per nom and common sense. A "subtitle" implies only the line or lines of dialogue or description appearing on the screen at one particular time, while "subtitles" is the concept of subtitling either a part of a work or the entire work, which is the topic of this article (which begins with the word "Subtitles"). Randy Kryn (talk) 03:17, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would further suggest that "subtitle" be a disambiguation page, since the undertitle to a main title (name) of a subject is also "subtitle", and that this clearly shows the prior move above was bad. -- 67.70.33.184 (talk) 05:32, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as proposed per WP:PLURAL (fireworks, scissors, etc.). Keep the redirect Red Slash 15:48, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It's very rare to refer to this topic in the singular. Strictly speaking, it doesn't exactly meet the letter of WP:NCPLURAL exception#2 (unless you want to argue for "subtitles" as de facto mass noun, like "data"), but it's certainly within the spirit of the guideline, IMO. Ambivalent about what to do with Subtitle - leaning slightly towards making it a dab, but I can see arguments for a primaryredirect (or even making it the new title of Subtitle (titling)). Colin M (talk) 15:51, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely fits subpoint one of exception two. The word "subtitle" exists as a verb, sure, but not really as a noun. Red Slash 18:32, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's used in the singular in Subtitle (the subtitler usually also tells the computer software the exact positions where each subtitle should appear). Wiktionary also includes a quotation for noun gloss #2 that includes the singular: The cigarette in the scene serves as a subtext, a mute caption or subtitle Colin M (talk) 20:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger discussion[edit]

NO CONSENSUS
This has been open for almost a year, and with one editor hesitant and two editors in favour, I think this lands at no consensus. I would not be against having a new merge request on this topic but suggest that more comments be neutrally solicited from Wikiproject talk pages should this reopen. Z1720 (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There is wide overlap between the two articles. For example, Closed captions defines both subtitles and captions (even in bold, which fails MOS:BOLDREDIRECT). The distinction between the two concepts could be easily accommodated in a unified article Subtitles and captions. Further regional or country specific differences could be described in subsection. fgnievinski (talk) 16:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know... On the other hand, they are very distinct in what it's supposed to do, but all subtitle files can also be rendered as caption files since the files can accomplish both. They can both be seen on movies and TV; however, EIA-608 captioning happens more frequently than subtitling.
Its meaning is also differed across different countries—like British English—where they use the term "subtitles" as "closed captions." I think they should be merged since its meaning differs across countries, making it easier for them to find the Wikipedia page. DatBoiMaker (talk) 00:57, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support These two articles suffer from lots of duplication already. Merger would resolve some of this. That said, I am unsure on the title "Subtitles and captions". Perhaps it should still be "Subtitles" with caption included in the lede as an alternative term (similar to how the many other relevant terms are handled like soft, hard, localizing, closed, open etc are handled). Scientific29 (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Origin of open versus closed[edit]

Perhaps mention why open subtitles got started being called open and closed subtitles got started being called closed.

Yes we understand their meanings. But we wonder how they earned their names. Jidanni (talk) 13:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

sidetitles[edit]

The article mentions the alternative of surtitles but not sidetitles. I remember seeing foreign films, with the original sound track, in Japan, with sidetitles, that is, a Japanese translation written vertically, along the right side of the screen. I have no idea where to find references to this.Bill (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SubStation Alpha page deleted and redirected to this page, why?[edit]

The SubStation Alpha page was deleted and redirected to this page, this is a problem because the original page contained valuable documentation on the format. It is my opinion that this should not have occurred as the page was a valuable resource to those creating subtitles in the format. 75.80.49.225 (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

hjjnBold@ 2409:4063:4D03:A63E:0:0:264B:D90B (talk) 11:15, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i will be glad to become a part of your ass[edit]

Hjiikkkk 112.206.34.55 (talk) 08:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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