User talk:CRwikiCA/Archive 1

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Hello, CRwikiCA, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! I am One of Many (talk) 07:23, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

CRwikiCA, you are invited to the Teahouse[edit]

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Mapping the Global Economy[edit]

Hi CRwikiCA, I am looking for volunteers to re-create the link below for all 196 countries. The goal of this project is to map out the global economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcnabber091 (talkcontribs) 03:26, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, what are you looking for in specific? CRwikiCA talk 13:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
My goal is to create a Wikimedia project that would map out the economy with all 196 countries. Can you duplicate this model but for another country on your sandbox? You could post all of your work at
Here's the report for China that I'm working on: Mcnabber091 (talk) 04:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
At the moment I am busy with some other projects, but I might give it a shot in the future. CRwikiCA talk 21:25, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank youMcnabber091 (talk) 15:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for updating restrictions in WP:INDICSCRIPT[edit]

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Hello, CRwikiCA. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#Request to clarify WP:INDICSCRIPT.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Bejnar (talk) 23:43, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Netherlands, good work!! Coal town guy (talk) 17:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)


Globe-barnstar2.png The Geography Barnstar
This barnstar is for adding the {{Geographic location}} template to Dutch municipalities. This has been one of my pet projects too for the last couple of years, having already done Ontario and Quebec municipalities, and now working on Philippines municipalities. Nice to see some support for this. -- P 1 9 9   20:23, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion: I use in-line breaks ( <br> ) in the {{Geographic location}} template to place the main bodies of water between the various places to give a better impression that they are separated by this body of water, for example compare Texel and Reimerswaal (or see also Santander, Cebu). Hope this makes sense. Regards, P 1 9 9   02:14, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I see your point and it has some benefits to change the order depending on the direction of the body of water. CRwikiCA talk 18:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar! Fortunately, NL is not large, so this wasn't a big undertaking, especially by working together on it. Regards, P 1 9 9   18:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, we managed to get through it quite quickly. And it is always good to see a project like that being completed. CRwikiCA talk 18:12, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
Dam good work on the Netherlands Coal town guy (talk) 16:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


Hi CRwikiCA, I've removed your nomination from the page; TFLS has a maximum of 10 noms at a time, per the instructions. If you've any questions, please feel free to leave message at my talk page. Regards, Zia Khan 01:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I saw it now, but I overlooked it with the instructions. I hope it didn't cause too much of a problem. CRwikiCA talk 23:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

2009 Mediterranean Games medal table FLC[edit]

Hi CRwikiCA, would you please cast a vote in support or opposition? It's been almost two months since the nomination started. — Bill william comptonTalk 13:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I formalized my support. Good work on the article!! CRwikiCA talk 13:41, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Feyenoord Template[edit]

All football club templates show the full registered name of the club, pick any club as an example and you will see (i.e. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, etc. pick any team and see for yourself) The full name for Feyenoord is Feyenoord Rotterdam NV, which is the reason I changed the name on the template to Feyenoord Rotterdam, the teams full registered name. Please reconcider your revision, thank you. Subzzee (talk) 21:41, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The name Feyenoord Rotterdam is rarely, if ever, used when refered to the club. The article about the club itself is Feyenoord and that is what is referred to in the template. The two examples your use do have the city name in their name and that city name is almost always used, this is not the case for the Feyenoord example. You say it "should be the full registered name of the club", what do you base this on? CRwikiCA talk 22:00, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 19[edit]

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Main Page appearance[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the main editors of the article List of municipalities of the Netherlands know that it will be appearing as the main page featured list on September 2, 2013. You can view the TFL blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured list/September 2, 2013. If you think it is necessary to change the main date, you can request it with the featured list directors The Rambling Man (talk · contribs), Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) or Giants2008 (talk · contribs), or at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured list. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions of the suggested formatting. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. Face-smile.svg Thanks! Tbhotch. Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 01:00, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for De Friese Meren[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

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I reverted your changes on Aalsmeer, (I am not trying to step on your toes) but I am trying to fix reference sections to be a little clearer and more standard. The short citation(inline) followed by the long citation in the trailing reference section typically works best for articles (Aalsmeer is one that theoretically could go either way), because it allows you to break it down to page #'s in the short citation. since all of the reference for the Aalsmeer article are one page references, I left the page # on the long citation. If that bothers you, I can switch it over to the short; however, I honestly don't see how the way i had it is confusing. Please let me know what you think speednat (talk) 17:54, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I am fine with it with just the three references there, if there will be more it can always be changed. Please note that the page numbers referred to might be incorrected, it seems unlikely that p. 1 of a book has this information on it. Cheers. CRwikiCA talk 13:49, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Page #'s are correct, I personally did the research on both of those books. I am trying to find another book on the history of Aalsmeer, because it is so sparse. I struck out in books at my University, am now going to try journals speednat (talk) 18:16, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I hadn't expected any info on page 1 or 2 of a book. It is probably somewhat harder to find a more in-depth history of Aalsmeer. There probably have been some Dutch books written by local writers, but they might be hard to find. The historical society of Aalsmeer seems to list two from the 1990s, see this link. I don't know whether you would A) able to find them and B) know Dutch. Good luck at least. CRwikiCA talk 23:43, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Purge at Template:2013–14 Eredivisie table[edit]

Hi. I am one of the editor regurlarly updating Template:2013–14 Premier League table and I was very active at Village Pump and WT:FOOTY during the creation of these league table templates. Now i ask you how your purging link works? On Template:2013–14 Premier League table I had to manually instert this link for purging the pages were template is used (that works very well). Do you know that your link on works the same way and purges the pages were template is used?

If your link works perhaps all of the pages should have the same type of link and the pages documentation should also be the same. QED237 (talk) 15:41, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I have set up the link, thinking that it would work, I don't think it does though. I have waited some time after the last text edit in the footnote and clicking that link, but it does not seem to update the testcases. I am not entirely sure how long the current wait time of the job queue is, but the link might not work as intended. I agree that a uniform approach to purging would be best. I also think it would be better if it would be possible to automatically add all transcluding pages to the purge list and there would be no need to manually update that list. CRwikiCA talk 20:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I did ask on Village Pump (technical) about the purging but no one could provide me any good alternative to the manual like I provided above. QED237 (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
I will wait till tomorrow and see whether that direct purge link will go through. If not, I will include a similar link as you did instead. Because it needs to be updated manually I don't think it is the most preferable option, but it is better than nothing.
I did shamelessly copy most of your setup for the template, you did a good job with it! I was however able to give every template in the table it's own line (with "regular" line breaking in the source code) by using a default options in the switch statement. You might want to glance over the source code and see whether that makes the code more readable or merely adds hot air to it. CRwikiCA talk 01:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
To be honest I didn't do much of the hard work, I just tried to coordinate the whole thing. Yeah I can agree with you that my purging solution is not the best but at least it works so better than nothing. On the premier league pages people want immediate update and my link does that. I will take a look at your solution later, but I took a short look and It looks good. The main thing is that it is as easy as possible to update for all editors (even those not used to the templates). QED237 (talk) 11:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
The final result is good, it's good to have the templates. Unfortunately my way to purge things does not seem to work, so I think I will incorporate your method. CRwikiCA talk 14:31, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Re-opening this discussion again. I have spotted a minor problem with Template:2013–14 Eredivisie table. When making the partial table the last row becomes a little bit larger than the others. This since the text in the bottom right corner is slightly elevated. This can be seen when looking at the example usage section in documentation below the template. It is in the point for RKC Waalwijk (when looking at NAC Breda) and in qualification for Hereenveen (when looking at Ajax). Do you know why? Or perhaps the best is to make the code the same as PL anyway? (Going on vacation soon so I might not respond for a while) . QED237 (talk) 22:33, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I see it now too. I'll look into it and see what causes it. I prefer the setup with every position on the same line, so I'll see whether I can figure it out. CRwikiCA talk 14:16, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
I have incorporated a similar thing as for the Premier League table. I have to congratulate you with your eyes, because it was a minor thing to spot! At least it's all fixed now, that's the important thing. CRwikiCA talk 19:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Im glad you found a solution for it. I just spotted the point was weird then started looking in to it to see if I could see the same thing somewhere else. Anyway as I said I am glad that you could find a solution. That's great! QED237 (talk) 09:10, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 31[edit]

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Hi, I don't see much difference in let's say my text and yours. I do see the differences. I think that scheme is to complicated to alter something what's was wrong. Of course that's not your fault. Salix2 (talk) 20:19, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

The main difference is that I added a reference for the interim major and wikilinked to the party article (why they use an English translation is beyond me). To me it doesn't matter whether the interim tag is on either side. Are you okay with the current version, or do you suggest any changes? CRwikiCA talk 20:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
I saw you added the reference. Changing the name was easy, but then finding the old reference that was wrong at moment, was difficult. It's OK to me now. Salix2 (talk) 21:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Okay. The templates can sometimes be cumbersome to work with. CRwikiCA talk 21:26, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Geemente figures[edit]

Hi, I noticed that you updated the population of the Dutch municipalities. I have to do the same tasking a robot for Wikipedia Italian. I just would like to know where did you take the figures, from the Wikipedia Nederlands data (if so which page) or from CBS (I was not able to find the updated page, the list of the municipalities I found still refers to 2012)? Thank you for your support. --Hypergio (talk) 07:04, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I used the CBS data from the reference in {{Dutch municipality population}} and a different one for the area numbers. This and similar templates for the area are then used on individual municipal articles (I am currently updating all of them, including some other infobox entries). The area numbers are indeed from 2012, I did not find more recent data; the population numbers are, however, from 2014. So they must be reasonably accurate. Using the data templates makes future updates a lot easier, because you only need to update the data on the template pages. You might consider copying those templates to the Italian Wikipedia to keep future maintenance easy to do. I hope this answered your question. CRwikiCA talk 13:30, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Welcoming 'User:Iseldiroedd' to Wikipedia.[edit]

Dear friend CRwikiCA; Face-smile.svg

Like you, I have 'Friesland' in my watchlist and had noticed the change applied earlier today by 'User:Iseldiroedd'. Since this userpage name appears in red, I checked its 'user contributions' stats and found that the earlier edit was this person's very first one. This prompted me to consider inducting this 'newbie' and helping him/her to create his/her userpage and talk page, etc.

However, since you both have an obvious, shared interest in the article on Friesland, please would you consider taking this newbie under your welcoming wing, since it is possible (my assumption, which may of course be wrong!) that you might both be Dutch?

Thank you for your consideration, and I hope you didn't mind that I offered this suggestion.

With kind regards;

Patrick. ツ Pdebee. (talk) 22:35, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I will leave a notice on the users talk page and see what happens. I do not assume bad faith, just an innocent mistake. I rarely have problems with suggestions! Cheers, CRwikiCA talk 22:38, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
That was quick! Face-wink.svg
Thank you for agreeing to help a newbie. Just a final thought: I have found that by also adding the {{userpage}} template on a newbie's userpage will immediately attract their attention because, all of a sudden, they see their username changed from red to blue; this 'spectacular' clue generally prompts them to click on it (possibly for the first time ever) and thus to become aware of the fact they have a userpage and associated talk page they can read and use for contacting other users.
Thank you once again for your consideration.
By the way, I admire the work you're doing on all things Dutch and wish you all the best with your current and future projects!
With kind regards; Face-smile.svg
Patrick. ツ Pdebee. (talk) 22:50, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Sometimes I am quick. I followed the other advise and will see what happens. Thanks for the compliment, the infobox project seems to be taking a lot longer than I expected, but I hope to finish that at one point. Have a good day! CRwikiCA talk 22:56, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Your prompt actions are very much appreciated; thank you once again. Face-smile.svg
I know what you mean about things taking longer than we always expect. My own Sam Henry's Songs of the People project has now come to a halt because there is so much left to do, even though I have a good structure in place!
Good luck and keep up the good work; you are enriching everyone's awareness and knowledge of The Netherlands and it's a great achievement!
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee. (talk) 23:07, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 7[edit]

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re: League tables[edit]


I have seen your edit about the new league table template on my talkpage and I have taken a close look at it. In general I really like the idea you have done to {{2014–15 Eredivisie table}} and Template:2014–15 Eredivisie table/layout. The problem with editors not updating the helper template have been huge, so to avoid that would be great. Also to stop thinking about switches is great. I will most likely implement this on other tables as well. However I do have a few notes/thoughts I would like to discuss with you.

  1. There is a consensus at WT:FOOTY (at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 84#Template:2013–14 X league table‎ or Template:Current X league table and you can see all links there to TfD's where templates has been deleted) to remove the season year in the title of the templates. This since when season is over the template should be subsituted and not exist anymore. With the new name "Eredivisie table" or "Current Eredivisie table" (we should be consistent) we dont have to create new templates every year just subst the old one on the pages it is used and then reset/restart it again. The risk is people not substituting template on the old pages before restarting:
  2. The league table templates uses Template:Fb cl team which should be replaced by Template:Fb cl2 team according to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 81#FB team templates as done here. This because all Fb team templates should be removed (too many unneccesary templates). The templates are the same with the difference that when we write "team" we use wikilink instead of just team name, for example [[A.F.C. Ajax|Ajax]] instead of just Ajax. This would affect your team01,team02 parameters so that we should write the wikilinks there. As I suppose you mean the parameter passed to the templated (3 letters in the past) was supposed to be this team parameter, do we need an other parameter for this? For example abbr01=AJX and that is to be used in switches? Hope you understand what I mean.
  3. The table might be a bit more work to update when a lot of teams change place as you have to update all numbers 01 to 03 and so on, but it might still be best solution.
  4. It might be to hard for people to update the layout, perhaps a very well written documentation is enough. Today I have still not seen a single user edit the noqr-parameter in the header that needs updating when a team qualified for europe changes place. For example if a team placed 12th goes in to europe after winning cup then team 10,11,12,13,14 needs to show qr and not be in noqr parameter. If then that team move to 11th other positions should be in noqr. Also the row for qualification will have to be moved at end of season and it will most likely not be moved because people not updating layout, just as the helper was not updated.

But as I said, in general a very good solution, especially if we can fix what mentioned above. QED237 (talk) 19:05, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

I will answer you here, just to keep the discussion centralized. The best way to deal with it would be to have the same structure throughout for various leagues, as to your points:
  1. Removing the templates is fine one way or another, instead of substituting it might be easier to use the code reduction tool that appears on the testcases pages. Although, in my opinion, it is fine to keep the templates as is. This would be especially useful to address potential future lay-out changes.
    The consensus is also very narrow, the discussion indeed leans to removal, but the number of people involved is too small to call it a convincing consensus.
  2. I will change the template in the coming days to use the alternate format. I might want to use an additional helper-template.
  3. It would require some work to change the numbers, but I think it would be the most fool-proof method and the easiest to troubleshoot. There are alternatives, but in my mind they would be harder to understand for people that no not know the underlying code.
  4. It would be hard to update the cup-winner lay-out regardless of the template set-up. Because the cup only concludes near the end of the season, it's not as much of a problem as if it would happen in the beginning. I see the issue, if the number of places the cup-winner is limited, it might be possible to address once with some if-statements.
Your make some good points, overall I think it should be trivial to update for a casual user by hiding the complex syntax. CRwikiCA talk 20:36, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes I agree, it would be best to use the same everywhere and I like your solution. However I believe it is best to go to WT:FOOTY first before implementing it everywhere as I was told here QED237 (talk) 21:27, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
And a quick answer to the points,
  1. I know it seems a bit narrow but I have seen a lot of old TfD's where champions league tables and other old tables have been voted "subst and delete" and then being deleted. Everytime there is a tfd of old tables they are deleted, so perhaps it is best to not have new templates every year. What tool are you talking about? I dont know about the tool, all i do is to manually select and insert the rows on the different articles.
  2. Okay great, no rush. Just try and not make to many "unneccesary" extra helpers as i tends to get hard for editors to understand. I am almost a 100% the "fb cl team" and "fb cl2 team" are exactly the same except the wikilink, but I consider asking at WT:FOOTY since the later has no documentation.
  3. I agree, might be extra work but most likely the easiest for unexperiennced editors and to search for errors.
  4. True, It is hard anyway. A good documentation may solve that issue.
Thank you for the work you are doing and have been doing. QED237 (talk) 21:36, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
I have tried some things over the last week and have now finished a solution and added a little bit of background to the documentation, take a look and see what you think.
  1. I mean the tool at Special:ExpandTemplates. Maybe I will open a discussion about not deleting them, because why. At this point I do not have the time to carry a discussion.
  2. A helper was needed in this case to keep the main template clean and simple.
  3. Agree
  4. Yes, documentation is a problem throughout Wikipedia, many things are poorly documented. Maybe it would even be worth creating a über-template from which these kinds of tables would be easier to generate. But for that we first need to find out what top-level structure works without many problems for the majority of people.
Keep up the good work! CRwikiCA talk 06:35, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I have taken a closer look and I really like it. Perhaps an extra parameter in the main template could have been used (have one team02-parameter for the wikilink to the team and one with team abbreviaton, called abbr02, for when calling template and to be used inside the layout) but this also work. It would have been a template less to have controll of in case of vandalism but in the mean time it is one parameter less when updating. However I have opened discussion asking about doceumentation of fb cl2 template and hope it works out. After that I will take this solution to WT:FOOTY as I have been told it is best to do so. Is that okay by you? Do you think the solution is finished and ready? After approval it is template creating time... =) QED237 (talk) 23:08, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Ohh right, there is one major difficulty I have forgotten about. Many leagues has head2head when teams has same amount of points just as 2013–14 La Liga. This will mean a lot of edits in the layout which may confuse the big amount of editors editing that league table. I am thinking about how to solve that but I have no idea at the moment. QED237 (talk) 23:16, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
I seem to forget a lot today, I also forgot to ask how option parameter works. I couldnt find it out and saw nothing in documentation. Supposed to be used for tournamentqualified and so on? QED237 (talk) 23:24, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes, you are more then welcome to take the lead in taking this format around Wikipedia. :)
I understand your idea of using an abbrXX parameter, but then you run the risk of it getting broken when those are not updated. I think the best idea is to leave the top-level as easy and uncluttered as possible, edits in the lay-out/team sub-templates are easy to revert, because it wouldn't revert standings info at the same time. Only time will tell whether this setup will be easier to maintain
I didn't see the discussion you mention, can you post a link?
I had not considered the head-to-head issue, I think it would be best to code it for all in the lay-out and only display the ones that exist (are defined).
I currently don't use the option parameter, I think it will be best to remove that and insert actual TQ-parameters in there directly, forwarding an tournamentqualified=yes thing does not seem to work... I might change a few things with that. CRwikiCA talk 11:33, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
I saw the discussion now. CRwikiCA talk 11:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
I did not manage to get the optionxx parameters to work, so I removed them from the lay-out page. Are you still intending to use this set-up for other leagues as well? CRwikiCA talk 20:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Okay, no worries. I think the option parameter would have been like optionXX=TQ and then inside the layout have for example |tournamentqualified={{#ifeq:{{{optionXX}}}|TQ|yes}}. Not sure it would work but it is a guess. A drawback is that two things can not be shown at same time if not expanded For example qualified and champions. Then there can be more options for the option parameter with example optionXX=QC and have switch instead of if for qualified so both Q and QC gives yes to qualified parameter. I am not that good to explain, but that is my thinking but perhaps you already tried that.
And yes I am considering the same setup for all leagues, when we feel we are ready to take it to WT:FOOTY and after that start implementing. Currently I am thinking how to solve the H2H issue. As a first solution perhaps we can show head-2-head only when team=ALL (main league articles) and therfore have a h2h-parameter for each team were head-2-head info is input (perhaps two is needed to determine rows?). QED237 (talk) 21:24, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
I have tried a lot of things to forwarde a "tournamentqualified=yes", but to no success. The conditional statements would work, no question. I do not feel making it that complicated would be helpful, because someone basically needs to know the lay-out syntax to turn it on. It might then just as well be changed manually in the lay-out part (it is an issue that only plays at the end of the season, so I do not think it is a big deal).
With regard to the H2H, what is done now when only one of the teams shows up in the selection of 5 teams? Is there an option in there for a three-way (or larger) tie? It is something that could also be dealt with in a footnote instead of the main table. CRwikiCA talk 23:30, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
I dont think it is possible to pass the equal sign as I saw you tried to do so the conditional statements would be the only way. We could extend the documentation to explain how to use the parameters, because it might be to hard for editors to add the info themselves in a complicated layout, but perhaps it can be discussed at WT:FOOTY when we "announce" the new temmplate structure.
Regarding the head-2-head there is currently no league template for showing only five teams that has head-2-head. The 2013–14 La Liga as i brought up before has the table directly on page without template. On the team articles tables are not really updated, some show three teams, some show all and sometimes h2h and sometimes no h2h. Currently there is a template for displaying h2h were you say number of rows and content. I dont know how to solve the situation with only one team shows up in selection of 5, therefore my suggestion is to only show h2h when team=ALL and to not show on the team-articles. At least as a start. QED237 (talk) 10:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
To be completely honest, my motivation has completely disappered at the moment as not very many users know how these tables work (they relies on me). Also I have very much to atttend to in my personal life so I dont have time for wikipedia. I am considering a wikibreak or stop for life, which is not good for these templates. There should be more interest from the community (hard to understand why not) and as I said I have a lot on my plate IRL. QED237 (talk) 10:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I understand your points, IRL should still take precedence. I have no problem with trying the Eredivisie set-up just for the season to see how people deal with it. I do agree that not many users grasp the details behind the templates, one of the reasons might be that the table-building templates are complicated to start with. In my eyes the ideal solution would be to have a framework in place in which the tables can be generated easily without worrying about syntax and combining all lay-out option now contained in {{Fb cl header navbar}}, {{Fb cl2 team}}, {{Fb cl2 qr}} and {{Fb cl footer}} etc in one unified template that takes simple input. I currently do not have the time to even attempt something like that. As with many things, it works somewhat, so people are not interested, but by no means is the solution optimal. It is all poorly documented, without looking into the template code (or copying from an old table) it is impossible to build your own table. I think you H2H solution only for ALL is a fine solution, because displaying partial tables would be difficult otherwise no matter what. CRwikiCA talk 13:25, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Article for improvement[edit]

Since you have stated your preference for this month's article for improvement, I was under the impression that you wanted to collaborate on the article, but you have made only one edit so far... – Editør (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I know I have been slacking off. My intentions are good, but my time has been even more limited then I thought before. I know it doesn't make it much of a collaboration this way... :-( CRwikiCA talk 23:24, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply and your additional edits to Rottumeroog. Although I would like to give the AfI collaboration another try, I don't want to take the initiative this month. – Editør (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
I was intending to work on the collaboration, but lately I have been very busy. June will also be busy in real life for me, so I won't be able to spend to much time. I would have hoped, we would have picked up one or two additional editors. If my time clear a bit, I would suggest a article for July, but I cannot make any promises at this time. At least the Rottumeroog article is improved quite a bit, I would say it reaches B-level now. CRwikiCA talk 16:21, 1 June 2014 (UTC)


dear sir/madam;

I hope you read this. I'm having some trouble finding the option how to discuss on wikipedia... I now changed the artikel about friesland so both options are shown. As one could read in the wikipedia page about the dutch provinces ( In the Netherlands it is common to use landmass to determine the size of a province. Water areas are normally not taken into account. For the Dutch, Gelderland is the largest province, followed by Noord-Brabant and Friesland. It is confusing to change this in the English pages. More so, this is how the Dutch look at their own provinces. It would be fair to use this for the international pages. starts with: Gelderland is the largest province of the Netherlands

If you would change the page so the above would be clear, it would be okay with me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iseldiroedd (talkcontribs) 00:39, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

also, please take a look at this page:

Netherlands at the 2014 Winter Olympics[edit]

Hi CRwikiCA,

I've noticed that you're following the MOS:DTT principle to style tables in your own approach, and I've seen the tables unorthodox to the rest of the nations articles, wherein each of them use the same Olympic format. Here are my concerns about the article. This is neither personal nor philosophical.

  • "Did not advance" should be designed in a simplified manner. Do not use n/a template for it. N/A is for n/a and bye only.
  • Time must come first before the Olympic or World record. I don't understand why do you align the results to the right?
  • Forced widths in the tables are unacceptable in the nations articles. It's against our rules in the WP:OLYMOSNAT.
  • Medalists should be placed on top of the article, instead of sports articles.

We are not against your will. Nobody deserves prejudices, but please provide me enough reasons for it before I revert your edits. You may also cite them in the article talk page, or at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics. Thank you! Raymarcbadz (talk) 14:03, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I appreciate your coming to the talk page to discuss this with me. Let us not forget that WikiProject guidelines are not rules, the MOS is however a rule. That being said, MOS:DTT does not necessarily conflict with the intent of WP:OLYMOSNAT. Note that that article is not part of the MoS of Wikipedia. That being said, I will suggest/implement the following steps:
  1. I will revert your change, because it is a huge task otherwise to bring in the DTT rules.
  2. I will the put the medalist section on the top, either though I feel it is sub-optimal.
  3. I will make the background white for did not advance.
  4. I will leave the forced widths, because I find it esthetically pleasing. If you disagree, remove all the forced widths and I will not revert that specific change.
  5. With regards to the times, if the time is not right-aligned, it is not aligned from one entry to the next. That makes it look very sloppy. I suggest to start a more centralized discussion about this with more people involved in the Olympic articles. Therefore I ask you not to change that for the time being, and to start a discussion about this item in a the proper place in the WP Olympics subpages. I suggest to leave the 2014 Dutch page in the right-aligned format for now as a test-case and so people can judge what it looks like.
I will implement this, because I feel it is reasonable, let me know what you think about it. But please do not ignore the central MoS in the mean time, because it is one of the few things that can be seen as a rule on Wikipedia. I think we can even update the guidelines for these articles to be MOS:DTT compliant after we agree on all the items in this discussion. CRwikiCA talk 21:59, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

2014 GoDaddy Bowl[edit]

Thanks for your help. Sorry that I completely forgot. Go Phightins! 20:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

No problem, it's good we got all the stats sorted out. CRwikiCA talk 13:36, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

English league tables[edit]

Hi, I just altered it to the style that can be foud for example in the Scottish league tables (from SPFL Premiership to SPFL League Two). But it has been reverted by somebody else and there was a link leading to a discussion about it. So I thought that there was a consensus already and I had nothing more to add. Thanks for your attention. (talk) 14:57, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Edit: Indeed, the old table with all those things in the middle was a big nightmare! Anything is much better than that. (talk) 14:59, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Edit 2: One more thing, I noticed that in the League Two table Luton Town is written Luton Towm. I don't know how to correct it. (talk) 15:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Hi, the name changed had to be made at sub-template {{2014–15 Football League Two table/teams}} and I have now corrected it. I hope that you find the nes templates better and easier to update, that is our intention. If you have any tips, information or opinions please let us know. Thanks for informing about the team name. QED237 (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
I copied the names from the old documentation, I corrected the typo there now as well. If you spot any other errors, let me (or others) know if you are unsure of how to fix it. CRwikiCA talk 18:43, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Okay, thanks both of you. (talk) 18:57, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

2014–15 FC Steaua București season[edit]

Hi, If I remember correctly you participated in the discussion regarding templates for group tables for Champions League and Europa league as well as using a template for the key. It has all worked well and has been implemented on ALL club season articles for teams in EL and CL this season except one. One user at 2014–15 FC Steaua București season does not agree and keeps removing it, first saying I have to do it everywhere and now I was reverted again with motivation undid vandalism (see diff). Could you take a look at it? Dont want to edit war but this editor frustrates me (as someone did at same article last year). Seems more like WP:OWN. QED237 (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I added the group template there. I do not see any argument in the history why it shouldn't be included. It cannot be anything but WP:OWN that is going on here. I added the article to my watch list and will see what happens. CRwikiCA talk 16:11, 16 September 2014 (UTC)