User talk:DGG/Archive 157 Feb. 2020

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Topical Archives:
Deletion & AfD, Speedy & prod, NPP & AfC, COI & paid editors,    BLP,            Bilateral relations
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Sourcing,    Fiction,       In Popular Culture    Educational Program
Bias, intolerance, and prejudice

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2006: Sept-Dec
2007: Jan-Feb , Mar-Apt , M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
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2009: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2010: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2011: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2012: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2013: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2014: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2015: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2016: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2017: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2018: J, F, M , A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2019: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2020: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2021: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2022: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O, N, D
2023: J, F, M, A, M, J, J, A, S, O

DO NOT ENTER NEW ITEMS HERE--use User talk:DGG

AfD of Robert Olson

Hi DGG. Since you recently reviewed Draft:Robert A. Olson and made comments about the subject's notability, and you've also been working on the Biografer cleanup, I thought you might want to know about Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert A. Olson. BTW, I thought in the case of this particular article, it had been rephrased enough so that it wasn't a G12 of the NYTimes death notice cited in the article (like many other of these creations were), but you may have a different opinion on that. Cheers! – Levivich<

AfD control of bulk nominations

Hi DGG. I see you often at AfD and know that you think a lot about it.

Over the last week, I have seen two "bulk-noms" of articles to AfD (which you have probably also seen); one being of Onel5969's US GEO stubs, and another being of Scope creep's WWII German BLPs. Both have resulted in each author leaving the project (at least for a period). While the noms were in good faith, they were "technical" articles where more than simple searches for GNG were needed (e.g. Onel5969's stubs had some confusion a reading of USGA listings as they applied to GEO, while Scope creep's BLPs needed sourcing from offline sources and de-WP). Such AfDs can accumulate easy Delete !votes, while the Keeps hunt for references and sources; and some Keeps will have a finite time capacity for the number of articles they can/will participate in.

My question is whether we should have some kind of rule that a single author can only have say 2-3 of their articles nominated at AfD at a given time – unless an admin explicitly gives consent for more, and such consent only being for egregious cases of PROMO/COI/UPE/SPAM etc. The logic being that a nom could not swamp/overwhelm a creator at AfD, and that it might prompt noms to get more buy-in/have more discussion with the author to other options (e.g. merging articles into other head articles/lists etc.). Also, the outcome of the first AfDs, will greatly inform all parties on the likely trajectory afterward.

I suggest this because the potential long-term loss of either of these two above established editors vastly exceeds any considerations about whether their nominated articles should stay or go in WP (they are not egregious violations by any means). We would not need to program this rule into AfD (although maybe later), but at least an article creator could "press the panic button" if they saw lots of their articles at AfD, and give them time to gather themselves, see if they can build support/consensus etc., and reflect on how the first AfDs progress.

Is that a mad idea? Britishfinance (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Britishfinance. apologies for the delayed response.

whether this is a good idea depends on the circumstances. Sometimes the articles are truly indistinguishable in nature, and can be nominated together in one AfD. Experience has shown this is correct only in special situations, because most groups claimed to be indistinguishable turn out not to be if anone looks carefully. --there is often notability for some of them or some special reason,

There is an an advantage from putting them together--people interested in one are likely to be interested in all, and there's a better chance of getting informed participation. The problem is notification: Very few people pay attention to every AfD. We have made a some advances gradually over the years of notifying active projects about AfDs in their area, but it for inactive projects and obscure topics it's a matter of chance. (It's true, though, that this can sometimes have the paradoxical effect of attracting people with by and large a common view, as contrasted to the general interests of active Wikipedians).

Doing them one at a time over a long period there is very likely to be low participation and inconsistent deletions.

My advice , and my practice, is to run trial nominations of two or three representative articles in order to test what the consensus is, or see if consensus is changing. Such nominations can in effect set guidelines, and are much more effective if there is a comprehensive argument including all likely people. After that, then it's easier to see what to do about the others. So rather than prohibiting grouped nominations, perhaps we need an RfC -like system for attracting attention to them.

Now, about these groups of deletions. The geography ones seem to have been decided in a reasonable way. The WorldWar II ones were mostly decided in a reasonable way also. Each article in both groups was discussed at length, and attracted a reasonable number of participants who were interested in the subject field and the notability questions involved.

I consider them good examples of doing it right,. DGG ( talk ) 00:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that DGG, and I appreciate you taking the time to consider fully and respond. Makes sense to me now. Kind regards, Britishfinance (talk) 12:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

general notes on mass actions

More generally, there has been a trend to mass actions when a problem arises. This started with a decision 10 years ago to remove all unsourced BLPs. The non-zealots were able to get this carried out gradually and relatively few worth saving were lost. It has more recently happened with unedited Google translations done by the Translation tool, and here it affected so many fields that most of the high-priority articles were rescued. It happens about once a month with the discovery of a major sock-puppet, especially paid ones and those whose work has gone back many years. . Since there is complete consensus we do not want sockpuppets, few people try to rescue these. I sometimes do, especially because some of the non-paid people have also written decent articles.

Even more generally, WP is prone to moral panic When a problem we hadn't seen but should have seen arises, then based even on a single case, people take very drastic measures. This occurs in Real Life also--a crime by a single person once changed the course of a Presidential election. DGG ( talk ) 00:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

could you be so kind as to comment Re my request for help

here? If so, thank you so very much, Mr. DGG --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 19:37, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Advice on how to edit 'Ceramic art'

Hi DGG. Could you please advice about the following? A month ago I created a wiki page 'Lodi ceramics', which you approved. I would now like to edit the page 'Ceramic art', section 'History', subsection 'Europe'. I could add a sentence about Lodi ceramics in the Tin-glazed pottery sub-sub-section, but this sub-sub-section is so short that it would be much better to improve this section about tin-glazed pottery adding details about Italy and the 17th-18th century at least. However I don't have enough knowledge. Adding just a sentence about Lodi ceramics feels like adding a details to a background that is missing. Alternatively, I could add a section at the bottom of the History-Europe section, titled 'Pottery in Italy', and just add the wikilink to Lodi ceramics. Similar sections already exist for Germany, Austria and Russia. What do you advice? Thanks in advance --Arkie Hodge (talk) 20:28, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arkie Hodge, do both. There's nothing wrong with a short section if it's in parallel with other sections. But in addition make links from the Lodi article. Within limits, the more cross-referencing the better,.

Try to provide for all the possibilities DGG ( talk ) 09:18, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Christopher J. Handagy

I inadvertently put this in December, 2019 and then I realized it is January, 2020=))

DGG Hello, Mr. Goodman! I got back from my Christmas vacation and took my time to add a few notable book reviews to Hadnagy's draft with new sources added. It has more than 30 citations now and the text has been through significant updates and re-wording, according to your advice. Do you think it should be pending on review list or maybe you can take an extra look and let me know if there are still any issues there? If you say, it is good to go (or not), it might be helpful for a new user like me. I would really appreciate your knowledge and expertise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Christopher_J._Hadnagy

Suchexams (talk) 21:00, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suchexams, you need at least to make the references a little fuller using the citeweb template to show where the reference comes from. Then the book reviews should be used as references for the books, using the quote=parameter of the cite template. I'll come around in a week and show you, if you haven't done it.

Also, take a careful look about wherethe reviews are comingf rom . some are more reliable than the others. DGG ( talk ) 06:54, 21 January 2020 (UTC) DGG ( talk ) 16:32, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Annette Carson

I have taken on board the comments made by you and others relating to this article, made appropriate changes, and moved to mainspace. Can you please review and remove the rejection notice.

Thank you. The Retiree (talk) 21:59, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have commented further on your talkpage. DGG ( talk ) 00:30, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tags on Pamela E. Harris

Hi! I saw you put some tags on the new article on Pamela E. Harris. I was just wondering if you could explain further. I thought that the several in-depth independent sources published over the span of 2 years ([1], [2], [3], [4]) would easily make her pass WP:GNG. I also don't see how this article could be described as WP:SENSATIONAL. Would be very grateful if you could provide and explanation and/or suggest what you would want to see improved to get the tags removed. Thanks! Achaea (talk) 10:05, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first notice is one of our standard multi-purpose notices, which , like so many of our notices , unfortunately does not specifically describe the situation. The relevant part is that I consider it written in a promotional style, suitable more for a web page than an encyclopedia. For example, it omits listing her published work .
The second is that I do not think she meets WP:PROF. She is not yet notable as a researcher. Most of her papers are uncited by other mathematical papers., except her own., or cited only for other reasons than the mathematics.It is possible to meet itWP:PROF as a teacher, but the awards are junior-level. But she apparently has received enough notice to meet the general notability standard, WP:GNG, which even for an academic is an alternative.

You will notice I did not nominate it for deletion. DGG ( talk ) 05:49, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A kitten for you!

Thank you so much for approving my article! I worked hard on it!

Florence Hansen (talk) 02:30, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright question about linking to articles through Semantic Scholar

DGG, there is some disgreement on the understanding of whether PDFs can be pointed to via the open access tool Semantic Scholar through the WMFLabs OABOT, and I would value your thoughts on this. Can you see the discussion on the Reliable sources Noticeboard and offer your thoughts on this? It relates to a number of reverts to my edits where another editor stated that using those sources is a copyright violation. I want to avoid copyright violations at all costs on Wiki, but am getting conflicting interpretations of this. Thank you. --- FULBERT (talk) 16:00, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen it. Copyright paranoia. My view of appropriate copyright policy is so far different from the self-righteous one prevalent here, that I usually avoid discussions on the subject. I just get frustrated. DGG ( talk ) 23:10, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DGG, thank you so much for your advice and guidance on rewriting this draft. I really appreciate your help. I rewrote the article based on your feedback and comments. I mostly tried to make it more neutral and “encyclopedic” and took out some content to shorten it and highlight the most important parts of his research. Would you mind taking a look at the revision to see if I made the correct changes? I am happy to go back and make further edits based on your feedback. Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you! Marissascavuzzo (talk) 01:52, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eli Schechtman

Thank you for your help! Please, see my new version!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki82esh (talk • contribs) 22:03, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

this will take a few days. In the meantime, please double check for grammar, particularly tense. And I cannot quite identify just what prize the PM gave him. DGG ( talk ) 05:18, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resubmission

Hi DGG, thank you for your previous suggestions about Draft:Magnum Research Limited. I have updated third-party sources and added more information (e.g. product lines, cooperations, and licensing) to the page. Could you please review the draft page again, or let me know if there is anything else I can do to improve the article?--Ria-TAN1995 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resubmission of Draft:V-Nova

Hi DGG,

Many thanks for reviewing my first draft of this page. I hope I have understood the feedback correctly and addressed it in my resubmission. If anything remains unsatisfactory I would be very grateful if you can let me know what is specifically the problem. Similarly your input on ways to improve the page would be appreciated.

Thank you. IlanAstrug (talk) 15:07, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

new version

Thank you for your help! Please, see my new version "Draft:Eli Schechtman" Wiki82esh (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Sebby Frazer

Hi DGG.

How did you come to review Draft:Sebby Frazer. It was not submitted. Do you patrol new pages in draftspace? Is that usual?

This goes to the question of why do anything with things like this. If you did not MfD it, wouldn't it have been nominated for G13 in six months with zero page views? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:37, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly I review new pages in Draft space—it is one of the options at Special:new pages. I look for several things. 1/material that must be removed or even oversighted 2/the very worst of the playing around 3/the most outrageous of the advertising, especially if they look like undeclared paid editors 4/reasonably acceptable pages from people who abandon them and that either can go in right away or at er a copy edit or two,

My view is that the sooner the better the top and bottom of the pages are dealt with the easier it will be later on for everyone. This is especially true for the attempted "contributors" whom we need to very strongly discourage—they should be dealt with right off.

Opinions vary about how drafts should be handled, just as with everything else here. We do not know what really works best, or even if there is one way that works best. We not only can tolerate a great deal of variation, we should have a great deal of variation and experimentation , as long as we don't confuse the beginners or make contradictory statements about policy. DGG ( talk ) 01:03, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

as long as we don't ... make contradictory statements about policy.

I have been wondering, am I being chided about making contradictory statements about policy? These statements were at WP:MFD, a place without much exposure to readers, or even to the average editor. I think the statements came from a disagreement of interpretations, and such disagreements should be aired at suitable forums, like that, and then it was immediately resumed at the linked discussion at WT:CSD (where, you were proved correct). If you think it desirable for me to strike old misstatements, please say so, and I will likely do so. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:12, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[[User::SmokeyJoe|

SmokeyJoe]]-- sorry -- I nothing specific in mind here.

that was just meant as a general statement to pagewatchers. DGG ( talk ) 02:32, 2 February 2020 (UTC) DGG ( talk ) 04:38, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eli Schechtman copyvio

I've rewritten a paragraph in Eli Schechtman that was copied from the YIVO Encyclopedia article on Schechtman: the paragraph beginning "Although Shekhtman received several Israeli literary prizes", added in this edit by an IP (who I suppose may or not the same person as the editor predominantly responsible for the draft). Do you think you could have a look through the article for any other passages that might have similar issues? There are some close-ish paraphrases I think, but I was hoping to just do a quick copyedit and don't really have the time to look into it. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 17:56, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I had done a check against the print version, but I may have missed something., so I will check again. DGG ( talk ) 19:12, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

#########

Draft: Paul J. Tesar

Hi DGG, Thank you so much for taking the time to review and provide comments on my draft. I’m really sorry the article is lacking. I tried to be responsive to the first reviewer’s comments to substantiate notability, but perhaps the edits went too far in the other direction. I would really appreciate your expert advice in improving the page. Your comments are very helpful, and I will work on rewriting the article in a more encyclopedic format. Please let me know what else I can do to improve the article. Marissascavuzzo (talk) 00:44, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Marissascavuzzo, first step is to answer my question---since the article is written tin the promotional style usually association with press releases, (for example, ...Tesar transitioned directly into an independent position back in his hometown... ; or talking about the many possible medical applications of the general field in which he works, ) you need to say if you have some conflict of interest, as we define it at WP:COI; in particular, if it should be the case that this involves payment of if you are in any way connected with his company or any firm working for it, you need to declare fully according to WP:PAID. And have you ever used any other username here? DGG ( talk ) 06:07, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DGG! Thank you so much for your feedback and comments on the draft. I’m studying at the university and in the lab. I know Paul well, but have no affiliation with his company or any firm working for it. I also have not used another username here. My username is my name and my intent was never to be deceptive or to promote his company. I’m new to Wikipedia and am still learning the process and standards. Everything that I wrote was pulled from websites and press releases. But your comments about the style, tone, and content of the draft were very helpful and informative. I can definitely see how the article needs to be rewritten in a more neutral and encyclopedic tone. Again, my intention was never to be deceptive or for promotion purposes. I’m excited to work on this draft and continue to improve it according to Wikipedia’s standards. How should I proceed from here? Thank you again for your feedback and help, I really appreciate it. Marissascavuzzo (talk) 23:51, 8 February 2020 (UTC)Marissa Scavuzzo[reply]

Marissascavuzzo, Promotionalism is extremely common in our world, and --unfortunately — in Wikipedia. (There are several hundred thousand articles in WP accepted in earlier years when the standards were lower that we need to either upgrade or remove.) It is therefore quite possible for a good faith editor to write in such a style even without realizing it. ( I asked about the username because of some of the earlier editing on the article, whichwas clearly done by acounts that were not good faith editors) Now that you understand what needs to be fixed, fix it and resubmit. DGG ( talk ) 00:50, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DGG, thank you so much for your advice and guidance on rewriting this draft. I really appreciate your help. I rewrote the article based on your feedback and comments. I mostly tried to make it more neutral and “encyclopedic” and took out some content to shorten it and highlight the most important parts of his research. Would you mind taking a look at the revision to see if I made the correct changes? I am happy to go back and make further edits based on your feedback. Any advice is greatly appreciated! Marissascavuzzo (talk) 01:54, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gurbaksh Chahal

Indeed. What I've read has been that the subject hired some editors to create a promo piece which stuck even though he is not really notable. Some experienced, well thought of editors made it a vehicle to showcase the subject's domestic abuse. And that doesn't look notable either. The subject keeps trying to hire UPE's and declared PAID's to whitewash/balance the article, and the regular editors vigorously oppose those efforts. They are quite insistent that the page remain as a showcase of the subject's domestic abuse. I think it's trash, but I guess we are going to keep it..-- Deep fried okra 05:59, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

that sort of sequence has happened before; it also happens with consumer complaints. There's sometimes a certain satisfaction in getting the subject hoist with his own petard. DGG ( talk ) 07:36, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

C)

Request

Hi, DGG. I notice you declined the draft Manuel Muñiz on 16 January. I wonder if, as the man has been freshly appointed as Secretary of State (roughly a junior minister) in Spain, you may review the decision (per WP:POLOUTCOMES sub-cabinet officials are usually deemed notable), possible trim if they current content is deemed some kind of puffery notwithstanding. Cheers.--Asqueladd (talk) 01:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first thing I did was move the paragraph and references about this to the top, so it will be quickly visible. Next step is a quick despam, which I can do unless you get there first, and then I'll accept DGG ( talk ) 01:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I accepted it. DGG ( talk ) 05:36, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Martha Boneta

I submitted a draft written about this subject and it was declined for being advocacy. Please help me understand what specifically would need done to have this reviewed as a Wikipedia article. She is an advocate so I am not sure if that is why or if there is specific wording that is not allowed. I wrote the facts as stated in reliable sources but I obviously got something wrong and apologize for that. I am more than happy to work on the draft of you can give me some advice on what is needed. Thank you for the help. --Narksajax (talk) 05:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Narksajax, content like "Boneta says that her love of farming began when her grandmother came to live with Boneta and her family. Her grandmother grew a large vegetable garden in the backyard, and this inspired Boneta to one day own a family farm" is puffery. Try to write in a more impersonal way, and then I'll let someone else review it. DGG ( talk ) 04:17, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

regarding reviewing the page 'tel ganesan'

Hello, Thanks for moving the page 'Tel Ganesan' to Draftspace. I have been doing referencing with Wiki's autoreferencer to make citations from reliable sources. The references i have mentioned are from india's national medias. especially 1 & 2, India Today, News Today, Hindustan Times, The New India Express Etc. As the personality is an US-Indian there are numerous references are found in US based well known Newspaers, News websites like detroit free press , The Oakland press etc. The citations are made carefully after getting step by step reviews of editors which was undergon since past 3 weeks. So kindly reconsider the review going through the references posted and also guide me on any errors need to be rectified as i am a beginner.

Thank You, Jay --Jayreborn (talk) 20:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All newspapers in all countries will sometimes run stories that are indistinguishable from promotion. The best newspapers are a little careful that the subject at least appears to justify it, and that what gets said has some resemblance to reality., but an interview is normally an opportunity for the founder or promotor to make a pitch for their product or service. Obtaining such articles and interviews is a primary job function of the higher class of press agents, and I sometimes think that what we measure here is not the notability of the subject but the skill and connections of the PR agent.

What I did was give you a chance to rescue the article; the alternative is that it would have been deleted, for a combination of promotionalism and not showing notability . Whether it becomes improved enough to be likely to pass AfD is up to you, and up to the possibilities of the sourcing for the subject., uSo, here's what to do:

First, you must declare whether or not you have a WWP:COI as we define it, for this, and for any other articles you may have written. In particular, if it should by any chance be a paid COI, see WP:PAID. Once you have told me this, we can go ahead and examine the references together. DGG ( talk ) 02:56, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Thanks for the reply. I have understood your points. I have gone through the informations and i can understand what could journals do for promotion etc. As you have mentioned i have nowhere connected with this subject or anyother topics i have written so far. Also i have not involved in any kind of promotionalism or paid editing in this article and any other articles i have written. I just created articles about missing personalities and i am just learning about notability & references on living persons. It will be great you can examine and help me on creating such articles on living persons or personalities with proper & credible references which was missing. Thank you ! Jayreborn (talk) 16:41, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, looking at the references, refs like 4, 7, and 21 are only incidentally about him; refs about the films are not directly about him, especially if they're from local newspapers--the role of "producer" can mean direct involvement, or just providing them oney; and I really have my doubts about whether the films themselves are notable. Refs 19,23, 24, are just listings. Anything from PR Newsrire or the link is PR, and not independent. Refs like 32 are press releases, as are many fo the others. The various honours in section 5 ar trivial--even E&Y 50 nationally is dubious for notability , and just for a US region all the more so, and for a nomination not an award, so trivial as to be better not included. Whether there will be enough of substance left to show notability is in my opinion doubtful. DGG ( talk ) 04:27, 3 February 2020 (UTC) DGG ( talk ) 04:27, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review

Hi, thanks for reviewing the article. Since your review, I researched the subject more and found some more independent sources. I've included them as citations. I know that I've included some listings and links to the books the subject has co-authored with his wife, but I thought they would work as proof alongside the independent articles that have been published about him. Is that not right?

Also, you have asked me to remove the PR articles, but I tried to be careful about not including any press releases, self-written and published articles by the subject, or his own companies' websites. Can you please point out which ones you found to be PR? Perhaps I am not looking at them as I should, but it would be really helpful for this article and the ones I'll write in future.

Thank you so much. FelixtheNomad (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looking again at it, FelixtheNomad, I do not really think there is enough in the way of substantial accomplishments that it will be possible to show notability . Refs 6, 12 & 13 are examples of PR; refs 21-27 are mere notices of awards, 28 is inclusion in an unreliable directory. DGG ( talk ) 04:31, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DGG, thank you so much for this. This is a very specific response that will go a long way in understanding the kind of references and citations I should use. Now I can study the ones you've marked out once again to see what makes them 'unusable' for Wikipedia entries. However, there is one little question, if you would indulge me. In cases such as this one, is it better to create a 'stub' rather than a full article if the subject is not notable enough? FelixtheNomad (talk) 11:14, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

G11 on Richard B. Lanman

You're probably right, the article's pretty hopeless. GS suggests possible notability but with multi-authored medical papers it's always hard to tell on a quick review. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 06:40, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I could probably rewrite it to show notability , by focussing only of the parts that matter here. My decision key is

I. Unquestionably extremely notable, in the sense that WP must have an article: no matter how promotional the article is, rewrite it, even if it means WP:TNT

2. Clearly notable, in the sense that WP should have an article: if extremely promotional , remove it unless some established non-COI editor wants to rewrite; but if just a little promotional , fix.

3. notable , but only ordinarily notable in the sense that WP could have an article: if promotional, remove. If not, cleanup and accept.

4.Borderline notable, in the sense that it might be possible for WP to justify an article if we wanted to be extremely inclusive: if at all promotional, or the editor a UPE, reject. If perfectly OK , accept.

5. Not notable, reject.

The key also works in another direction:

A. Highly promotional : if extraordinarily notable, accept and fix or rewrite

B. Ordinarily promotional : if very notable, fix, if just sort of notable , reject.

C. Borderline promotional : If clearly notable, fix, If not, let the editor try to rewrite

D. Not promotional except incidentally: if more than borderline notable, accept. If borderline, consider. If not at all, reject.

This particular article is the common special case of a scientist moving into industry. This typically occurs when they happen to find something that is potentially capable of commercialization. If the article emphases the academic, I tend to be lenient. If it empahsises the commercial, and the commercial happens to be one of the rare cases where the commercial aspects are truly important, then I try to rewrite enough to keep it. In the usual case, like this, I tend to be stringent, just as much so as if there were no academic career .

This is at any rate my inclination, or what some people might call bias, about what is important, or at least ought to be important, in the world.

You and I and a number of others others here know how to truly evaluate in detail a publication record. As you say, it isn't easy. it's usually outside the range of what we can practically do here. But I wish it were possible to devote the time and energy to it, for it can be very interesting interesting exercise. It's one of the things faculty hope to teach graduate students. DGG ( talk ) 08:25, 1 February 2020 (UTC) .[reply]

Thanks for the considered response, DGG. I too evaluate articles according to the balance of notability vs promotion, but perhaps place more weight on notability than you do. I hate deleting material that's more than borderline notable, unless one would genuinely have to blank the entire article to write an acceptable version. I think we're both biased towards academic research over commercial applications. Unfortunately I am some combination of too busy/inexpert, and perhaps also too lazy, to attempt to fix all the articles that I decline to delete -- but perhaps that's what the wikiprocess is about? I hope so, but some days I fear it is failing.

I've found the discussions at RHaworth's arbitration case around what other admins consider deletable under G11 & A7 to provide considerable food for thought. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 23:15, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please ignore this post

Goddamn! Your talk page is f'd. Anyways, had this conversation I thought you might enjoy. (I called you a "bigwig")

Peregrine Fisher, it was made clear by the community not so long ago that to add anything funny to The Signpost is a dangerous occupation. I don't see much very funny about the new Arbcom and its work either, they've had some hard cases to solve right at the beginning of their tenure, but it will be a bonanza for the next issue of the magazine. DGG is probably one of the few really nice 'bigwigs' left on Wikipedia. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 8:29 pm, Yesterday (UTC−8)

That made me laugh. I don't know what the joke is, but the punchline is "DGG is probably one of the few really nice 'bigwigs' left on Wikipedia." Crack me up! Peregrine Fisher (talk) 8:36 pm, Yesterday (UTC−8) Peregrine Fisher (talk) 09:11, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Prezzee

Hi, just wanted to follow up on this draft that you rejected two months ago. An article was published about a month ago briefly covering the subject's sales over the Christmas period. First, would this article satisfy your definition of a "true news story" as you previously stated here and second, would any of that info lend credibility to the size of the subject's operation or otherwise help towards satisfying WP:GNG in your opinion? Davykamanzi → talk • contribs • alter ego 11:33, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is a true news story, but it isn't substantially about the subject. It's about gift cards, and they're one of the people/firms who comment. If the firm is actually notable , there should be better. You're an experienced paid editor--did you realize the weakness in the refs but decided to give the job a try anyway? DGG ( talk ) 01:44, 2 February 2020 (UTC) .[reply]

I recognised that the refs weren't the strongest, but felt there might still be enough coverage to satisfy WP:GNG, at least from the perspective of another editor. Davykamanzi → talk • contribs • alter ego 09:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Davykamanzi , The standard for acceptanceof a draft is whether the article would pass AfD. I try to go by what I think the consensus would be at AfD, but I know I am not infallible—and AfD can be a little unpredictable. . Therefore, if I've declined a draft, unless there's some special issue i want to follow up, I leave further reviews to another editor. As a suggestion, if you want to make the article stronger, you might want to look for some references for information about the financial success of the firm.

DGG ( talk ) 09:36, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – February 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2020).

Guideline and policy news

Following a request for comment, partial blocks are now enabled on the English Wikipedia. This functionality allows administrators to block users from editing specific pages or namespaces rather than the entire site. A draft policy is being workshopped at Wikipedia:Partial blocks.
The request for comment seeking the community's sentiment for a binding desysop procedure closed with wide-spread support for an alternative desysoping procedure based on community input. No proposed process received consensus.

Technical news

Twinkle now supports partial blocking. There is a small checkbox that toggles the "partial" status for both blocks and templating. There is currently one template: {{uw-pblock}}.

Arbitration

Following a recent arbitration case, the Arbitration Committee reminded administrators that checkuser and oversight blocks must not be reversed or modified without prior consultation with the checkuser or oversighter who placed the block, the respective functionary team, or the Arbitration Committee.

Draft:New York Heritage

I see this subject noted in several articles and cited in several more. I'd be happy to have help on it or direction where to merge it if there is an appropriate target. Seems worth including. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 22:29, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this one is a problem. I'll try to find someone who can help. There's always a problem for sourcing with articles about confederations of organizations, so I tend to be very permissive with these. DGG ( talk ) 01:53, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tommaso Geraci

Hi, I kindly ask you to check the voice on the Italian sculptor Tommaso Geraci. In my humble opinion, I think there are doubts about its relevance --5.171.190.189 (talk) 18:14, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Check the voice? Do you mean check the references? It shows he has had major public art accepted. DGG ( talk ) 01:46, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Pepper Group

Hi. Thank you for reviewing the draft. I rewrote and removed some parts that read like an advertisement or does not use a neutral point of view. I also added more independent, reliable and secondary references or sources. Please check if this is acceptable now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aurdivon (talk • contribs) 00:20, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

still does not meet WP:NCORP DGG ( talk ) 04:12, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG: Thank you for the comment. How about these 2 references?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-spectator/news-story/pepper-surges-on-asx-debut/e9ae24e8fad970a39ef09a48c6eeae22

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pepper-group-m-a-kkr-idUSKBN1AQ00X

They have an overview, description, survey and analysis/commentary from the writer. Can these be considered as substantial coverage? Aurdivon (talk) 02:43, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Seven Nations (Bible)

Hi DGG. I just wrote up a WP:STUB, see Draft:Seven Nations (Bible) because I first tried looking this up on Seven Nations which turns out to be a disambiguation page. So I searched further on WP and found that there is information with citations about these so-called Seven Nations or Tribes to be found in Judaism and war#Wars of extinction in the Tanakh and Jewish responses. However @Jmertel23: decided to move it off to "draft oblivion" where there is a waiting time of SIX months!

This was totally unfair and in violation of WP:DONOTDEMOLISH because (a) it is just a stub, and stubs are given time, lots of time. (b) It's a topic based on BIBLE verses from the Book of Deuteronomy. (c) I subsequently added two Biblical sources from Deuteronomy Chapter 7 verses 2-3 and Chapter 20 verses 16-18. (d) I am currently editing from my mobile phone which is hard enough but that makes it very difficult to utilize Wikipedia's referencing tools. (e) As an exeperienced WP editor in good standing for over 17 years I am well-aware of WP policies and I certainly qualify as as a WP:EXPERT editor who knows what he is doing. Finally, (f) User:Jmertel should have contacted me on on my talk page instead of coming across as a boderline violater of WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF.

Thanks for hearing me out and for all your patience.

Please restore the Seven Nations (Bible) stub as soon as possible. I have asked some other editors to help out to improve the stub, hopefully they will. Thanks again, IZAK (talk) 01:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

sure; it needs secondary sources also, but some can simply be copied over from the other article. can you find the actual reference in Maimonides given in ref 34 of the Judaism and Wars article, and add it there. If it means what I think it does, it's a clever redefinition of "extermination" to mean what we would now call Cultural assimilation. DGG ( talk ) 02:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@IZAK: Please see my response on my talk page (trying to keep the discussion in one place for clarity). Thanks! Jmertel23 (talk) 12:15, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Scripts++ Newsletter – Issue 12

News and updates associated with user scripts from the past two months (December 2019 and January 2020).

Hello everyone and welcome to the 12th issue issue of the Wikipedia Scripts++ Newsletter:

Scripts Submit your new/improved script here

XFDcloser (now a gadget) is this issue's featured script

Suffusion of Yellow's mark-reverted • Majavah's unslashifier

Guywan's BulletSort and HistoryHighlight

BrandonXLF's QuickEdit and CompareRevisions

Enterprisey's fancy-diff should now be able to handle everything the parser can throw at it.

Twinkle has a new update (more). It now supports partial blocks and includes the select2 library as a dependency.
Select2 is available at MediaWiki:Gadget-select2.min.js for other gadgets and scripts to use.

Miscellaneous

Until now, this newsletter has been written primarily by me (DannyS712). f others would like to contribute, help is always appreciated; this was intended to be a community newsletter.

Pending requests
A number of requests are listed at Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests#Some ideas.
Some of the remaining ideas include scripts to:

expand a diff until it covers all contiguous edits made by that user
highlight which content (in the HTML) comes from which template
hyperlink "per X" to the last comment X made
show a pop-up section preview when you hover over its TOC link

...and many more, all available at Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 06:12, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of Äkta Explorer

Dear DGG, I politely have to disagree with the judgement of being advertising due to the following reasons:

The machine has not been produced for many years and is even out of support (i.e. no spare parts are produced anymore)
The article does not endorse this device. In the opposite, it mentions its primary competing product line and mentions that the same task can be performed by essentially all chromatography systems and that the advantages only are in the specialization (some tasks are easier on this device than on general purpose chromatography systems)
Even though I am an end user of the device, I am in no way affiliated with GE Healthcare. On the opposite, I have problems with them as imho they do misuse their duopoly position to the disadvantage of academic research (which does not have as much financial resources as the pharmaceutical industry).

It is a big problem, that there is hardly any independent information about these devices available on the internet, even though they play a central and important role in the pharmaceutical industry: namely in the purification of Biopharmaceuticals/biologics, which is the fastest growing class of drugs (every second cancer drug is meanwhile a "biologic"). What specific additions would convince you to NOT classify the article as advertising? This question is not rhetoric as I would like to get your honest answer! Notwithstanding now the fact that it is very rudimentary, but that's why Wikipedia exist that the community (including me) can improve on it over the next days, weeks and months.

I started to use the machine when it was introduced to the market (in 1994) had am still using it occasionally today. I have been teaching university courses about its use in protein purification. But again, there is no information about these devices on the internet (except for the vendors own info). The vendor has tried to start some online "community" about five years back, but without success. The device (and also its newer incarnations) is used mostly in proprietary (secretive) environments such as the pharmaceutical industry; maybe that's why these efforts have never taken off.

Thank you for your contribution, but I will try to get this article accepted with all the necessary modifications to fulfill the spirit of Wikipedia. I am just a very occasional contributor to Wikipedia. While the culture of Wikipedia is well know to frequent contributors, it is very different to e.g. the culture that I am used to (i.e. the world of scientific publication).

Regards, Mjeltsch (talk) 06:00, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I first must apologize --I seem to have clicked the wrong button--I meant only to have it considered for deletion. I never actually delete for reasons of promotionalism single-handed, but either nominate and let another admin to check my judgment and delete, or look at the ones other people have nominated and then delete if appropriate. The intention is to avoid just such mistakes as this.

You are quite right--I judged too quickly--it looks a little the way a promotional article might look, but it isn't promotional, for the reasons you've given. (most articles on products submitted here are in fact intended as disguised advertisements, and it's all too easy to just look at the new articles as if everything that might possibly be promotional is in fact an advertisement. ) (I've restored it of course)

as it happens, I'm a molecular biologist myself & I've taught biochemistry and I can easily appreciate what the device does, though in my lab days 50 years ago things were considerably more primitive. I'm not sure though, you can really make a sustainable article for this particular brand of the device. I se our article on Fast protein liquid chromatography, which is written in a brand-neutral way, but mentions only Pharmacia . I think our readers would best be served by expanding the general article to cover in outline the two different lines of machines You could then make redirects from the different brand names. Since for specialized products like this the articles would necessarily have good deal of common material, and the differences between various brans and models can be explained briefly. I think it important to mention all the models, because in reading a scientific paper, people will come across the name in the methods section, and look under its name for some sort of explanation. If you need any help in organizing this, let me know .

I'm always glad to have a bad example of what happens when I work too fast or carelessly, because I can use it as a teaching example when trying to guide other reviewers. DGG ( talk ) 07:00, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The idea to move the stuff to the general FPLC article and have a forward sounds reasonable to me. I will proceed in that direction when I find the time (hopefully soon). Mjeltsch (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please review Draft Northern_Transmissions

At your suggestion I've created Draft:Northern Transmissions which is ready for review. In the course of creating it I discovered the url is blacklisted. I was unsuccessful in having it removed [5] so I have created the page without any references to the url. Since this page is about a website I can understand that a page without any references to url may not meet certain standards. Please advise. Thank you. Henry A-W (talk) 04:04, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Henry A-W, I could add the link, butthere needs to be much more in the way of information and sources. If questions about the link are preventing you from adding more, addmore, & if it is sufficient, I'll add the link. I hope you can find more for it seems reasonable that we shoudl have an article. (You were also reminded a question about COI, btw, ) DGG ( talk ) 20:33, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ari Rastegar Draft Page

Hi DGG,

I've trimmed down more WP:PROMO content from the draft page. What else do you consider advertising on the draft? Texatexan (talk) 15:35, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the first thing I need to ask you, is whether you have any WP:COI as we define it?

The main reason for my declining to accept the article was that it does not show notability . Almost all the references are things he wrote himself, or press releases, or interviews in which he says whatever he cares to--such interviews are not independent sources, such as e-ssuite and Forbes. The Forbes article, by the way, is not under their editorial supervision, but by a "contributor" . That's the way they indicate that they know it's PR. DGG ( talk ) 19:18, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Giora Ram

Just letting you know -- it looks like you intended to G4 delete Giora Ram, but accidentally deleted the deletion discussion instead. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

so I did, I restored it. DGG ( talk ) 01:39, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Giora Ram

Did you mean to delete and salt the AfD page Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Giora Ram (2nd nomination)? ... discospinster _talk 23:43, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

oops. I'll fix it. DGG ( talk ) 01:37, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!

Laia Cabrera

Thank you for your comment on Draft:Laia Cabrera : "There are serious problems with the article's non-encyclopedic style , and those are what need to be fixed". I am not an native english speaker (French) and although I have been creating the article thouroughly with references and creating a structure that is logical and solid, my formulations are not as precise as I wish they were, and would definitely benefit from a collaborator that would review the syntax. Let me know if there is a possibility there. Thank you! Yessa Deouve, February 10, 2020 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yessadeouve (talk • contribs) 05:37, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

draft to Leopold Moll

Hello, thanks for your comments and support to Professor Leopold Moll, I will try add there the recommended things. Best --Vyrge (talk) 05:49, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

13 February 2020 Many thanks for your essential help with Professor Moll. There are more sources, I dont know if sufficiently well balanced and independent, for example obituary in the respected periodical Lancet from 1933 (it is even in English, and it is very very positive), summon of all Molls works (books, articles, lectures etc.) writen on typewriter in 1971 by his son Wilhelm, director of Medical University Library in Charlottensville, many photos (children clinic in Vienna, buildings, graves), records in on-line databases of WWII (wife Marie, brother Alois). I will also discuss again with my friends doctors and historians, how to improve the article. Kind regards --Vyrge (talk) 17:09, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft rejection

Hi, you rejected my Underwood draft as a “combination of advertising and society gossip”. But, Underwood’s co-partner Sabine Römer has her own Wikipedia article with few sources and arguably she is less notable. Can you help me by telling me what I need to change to get my draft accepted? The only “gossip” (which is sourced) is the rumour she was dating a British singer. The rest of the article shows her participation on a television series, the brands she has founded and helps to run, etc. I don’t see how she is not notable when she has been the limelight (especially in Australia) for over a decade. Thanks.--Nature987765 (talk) 12:03, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sabine Römer. DGG ( talk ) 19:14, 11 February 2020 (UTC) �[reply]

Surasky

I have made major changes to Draft:Russell S Surasky: removed promotional tone and improved references. Can you please take another look at the draft and provide suggestions on how to make it ready for mainspace? Thanks a lot in advance! BhasSpeak (talk) 17:32, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas A Parham

Hi DGG,

Thanks for your comment on my talk page. I'll move and respond to it here.

You wrote:

"promotionalism

"Are you realy sure you meant to restore the full to a bio article? DGG ( talk ) 18:19, 11 February 2020 (UTC)"[reply]

Actually, not exactly. But I felt it was the best way to respond to your two original edits. So let's discuss.

First, you tagged the entire article with an "advertisement" claim. Then you removed what you believed to be advertisements. But then you left the advertisement tag? I'm sure you understand that looks like trying to have it both ways. If you tag something you see as a problem, then fix the problem, why wouldn't you remove the tag? Or was that simply something you overlooked when you were done?

Second, I also respectfully disagree with you in some other areas as well; and I'm happy to explain those.

1) I honestly haven't ever seen an advertising tag on a BLP before. What "product" do you feel is being advertised? Of course, I would understand if [Tim Cook|Tim Cook's] bio talked too much about the release of the next iPhone. That's a product that's for sale. But that doesn't apply here. So I felt the tag was inappropriate. Of course, I've seen BLPs with the "resume" tag when they're just dry recitations. But that isn't the case here either. And severe edits shouldn't cause it either.

2) I know you'll agree that by definition, a BLP is a biography. So why remove either a relevant WP:RS biographical quote, or an RS quote explaining something noteworthy in the BLP? You also removed half the RS honors and awards in a way that seemed abitrary.

Also I see you've "subsequently" (see what I did there :) made 2 new edits and invited discussion. So let's discuss those.

In your first edit you removed a quote because you said it was: "unreliable sourced material removed from BLP-- based on hisword only." Are you saying the source was unreliable? Because the RS was a university website. If you're saying that he himself is unreliable because it was "his word only," I believe that's acceptable (WP:BLPSELFPUB) for a brief but relevant quote about his own upbringing. There are also separate RS in the paragraph right before it, (which you also wanted to remove). There are RS links to 2 of his siblings and they both confirmed his quote on the university website.

And in your last edit you removed what you called an advert.

I'm always happy to collaborate and compromise. So let's try:

1) I agree we remove the last quote you took out. It's 2 sentences, but if you feel strongly then fine. In return, I'd like to keep his quote. I think it's interesting and important. I'll include it's from an interview, so it's not like he's just waxing nostalgic.

2) I also agree the daughters ref can be trimmed. Just listing their names is fine. I've already done that.

3) I think the list of Honors should remain intact because it's consistent with other university president BLPs, which list either honors or publications a bit, but not both. Like here, here, here, or here.

That covers it, I think. If you have anything else, let me know. Otherwise, agreed? X4n6 (talk) 22:39, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking generally: my main field of interest here is academic biographies, and I'm concerned in making sure that the non-notable ones do not get included, that the notable ones show clearly the encyclopedic notability, and that encyclopedia articles don't look like promotionalism. As in other fields, probably most academic bios here are written by coi editors, sometimes the subjects themselves, occasionally enthusiastic students, but much more frequently university or department PR staff. As in other fields, promotionalism is so widespread both in the world and in Wikipedia that itis very easy for a person writing without coi in perfect good faith to write in a similarly promotional style. Promotional writing is what the subject would like readers to know about himself, in contrast to encyclopedic writing, which is what a general reader might want to know.

1) the "advertisement" tag is used for promotionalism in general. It's meant as a signal that editing is needed, not a condemnation. Articles containing promotional quotes are promotional, but fixable. Articles containing excess irrelevant personal material are promotional --they're what people or their employers like to say about themselves. What a reader cares about, is what the person's professional background is, and why the person's professional work is significant.

2) Of course we list awards and publications . We list major awards and the most important publications. Listing minor awards does not add to notability , but detracts from it, because it takes away attention from the important accomplishments. There are only 2 types of publications that list every award: CVs, where the current custom in academic CVs is to list everything possible, but WP is not a place for publishing CVs; and promotional write ups by PR staff which list everything they may think sounds impressive, but WP is an encyclopedia not a place for making people look important. Nobody outside themselves or their own university cares about local awards or minor publications. Nobody except those who know them care about their family's accomplishments--or, for that matter, their children's names.

3) A person's own statements when published by a responsible source are accepted for the routine plain facts about their life--the sort of thing that can in principle by cross-checked. hat they say about their motivations is what they want to have said, and is not always trustworthy, for they tend to exaggerate. to the extent sometimes of self-puffery.

4) Details are usually discussed on the article talk page, which is where I started this discussion. I'm not here to negotiate content, but to improve articles, and I improve them to the extent that is practical. Consider this as advice, and if we still disagree, we can continue there. and if necessary ask for other opinions. DGG ( talk ) 05:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You addressed several areas, in general terms, which merit a response. So, in order to make this a colloquy and not a disquisition, I'll respond to those here and save specific concerns about the article for its talk page.

It seems you've fashioned yourself to be a kind of anti-promotionalism heat seeking missile seeking out the scourge that is promotionalism in academic entries. Hyperbolic as that sounds, it's not intended as criticism. There are several editors on this project who perform a very narrow set of functions and they perform them very well. In fact, it's a laudatory exercise if coi influence in academic articles is as pervasive a problem as you make it sound. For me, more often than not I encounter academic BLPs that are little more than stubs. Almost as though someone recognized the individual was notable, but wasn't interested in the time it took to do a deep dive. They just wanted the individual listed in the encyclopedia.

By contrast, I'm a long-term, but not particularly prolific editor, who endeavors for quality over quantity. I'd rather write 10 articles that are well-written, well-sourced, encyclopedic, yet interesting reads, than write 1000 that are boilerplate just to increase my new article count. Of course articles must be encyclopedic, but that doesn't require that they be dry. And a well-placed and appropriate quote accomplishes that. Just as a picture is worth a thousand words, so too can a good quote be far more informative than dry prose. Regarding self-quotes, obviously they can be problematic. But a brief, well-chosen self-quote can also be informative and encyclopedic.

Regarding awards and publications, you mentioned your primary interest is in the academic biographies. Mine are in universities, university administrators, entertainment personalities and other bios. In the entertainment field, persons with an enormous number of awards will have separate articles just for cataloguing those awards. I have not seen that with academic bios. Although I do recall an article with a very long list of honorary doctorates. I've also encountered lengthy bibliographies and long lists of academic awards. As I mentioned prior, I don't think these do much for the article either. The reader certainly won't read them all. It just makes the staffer or academic who wrote their own article feel they've demonstrated how accomplished they are. But there is a middle ground between too little and too much of the lists and that's where I try to work.

I've encountered editors who automatically approach every article with the general rule that 50% of every article can be removed. Reliably sourced or not. As though they're somehow saving "space." Yet I've never seen a Good Article that could be read in thirty seconds or four paragraphs. Trimming the fat always makes sense. Amputating a limb just to make the whole lighter makes no sense.

Your comment regarding not being here to negotiate but to improve, sounded like a rejection of collaboration and compromise in favor of an only you know best approach, that I found of some concern. Perhaps you didn't mean it to sound that way, or maybe you did. I suppose we'll cross that Rubicon when/if we come to it. But improving articles is why I'm here too. The work I've done should make that clear. I'm no one's PR. I'm just aiming for encyclopedic, informative and interesting articles for the reader. X4n6 (talk) 10:38, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request on 01:58:00, 12 February 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by JMmelegrito

JMmelegrito (talk · contribs)
- Draft:TAP Digital Media Ventures (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hello, Thank you very much for reviewing my draft article and I certainly appreciate the opinion of an expert Wikieditor. Just for the record, I'm neither working nor connected to TAP DMV and its employees.

May I ask what are the things that should be changed on the draft article? If there is a need for citation on the information, particularly on each of the channels, I have DVR recordings to show as a proof.

Also, If my Wikipedia article has not been approved, then why is the TAP Sports article, which contains far less details and contains only one reference, has been approved?

Hoping to hear your response. Thanks!

JMmelegrito (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The question isn't existence, but whether there are references providing substantial coverage from third-party independent reliable sources, not press releases or mere announcements. You may want to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/TAP Sports. There are several hundred thousand articles in WP accepted in earlier years when the standards were lower that we need to either upgrade or remove. The least we can do is not add to them. DGG ( talk ) 03:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request on 06:17:06, 12 February 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Marilen.buenviaje

Marilen.buenviaje (talk · contribs)
- Draft:Antonio H. Castro Neto (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Antonio_H._Castro_Neto hi, can I get more tips on how to improve this article? it got declined by you :) thanks

Marilen.buenviaje (talk) 06:17, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I already said at the article what to do, so do it. Watch out for adjectives of excellence or praise--they do not belong in an encyclopedia . DGG ( talk ) 09:30, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your note

thanks for your comment just now at Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Brianboulton/drafts#User:Brianboulton/drafts. I cannot understand what is going on there. I just posted a link to the page in question. I have now successfully provided fully labeled redirects pointing to each of the drafts left by this user. Also, I created a sub-directory for all such drafts, so that any editor at all can get a comprehensive list of the full set of drafts, merely by using this template.

furthermore, I made the sub-page as a sub-page for the page for all deceased Wikipedians; in other words, any other such drafts can be added to the same sub-directory, so it will be easier for such editing efforts to proceed, since we have one centralized location to view them.

can you please go back and respond to the editor there who just replied? he linked to a past version of that page, instead of the current version which I had already updated. please feel free to follow both links, and then to reply. you are welcome to reply or to contact me any time. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 04:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the confusion. ...my bad. Talking about this at Wikipedia talk:Deceased Wikipedians#Should we say something about etiquette in moving and page creation?.--Moxy 🍁 05:06, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I adjusted my comment accordingly Thanks for letting me know. DGG ( talk ) 05:25, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

actually, your initial comment was totally fine and totally accurate. I would suggest that you please reinstate it. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 05:30, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but at this point I'm really a little confused. I'll look at it tomorrow when I'm more alert. DGG ( talk ) 06:34, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Neeyamo

Dear DGG,

We got a notification from wikipedia that says deleted page Draft:Neeyamo (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion, noticed that the request to deletion was initiated by you. We look at having a company page without any promotions with respect to the wikipedia guidelines. Can you please help us get back the deleted article and also let us know if there is anything that any content that have to be removed for a green signal to conversion into a wiki page? Irenejones2009 Irenejones2009, who is us and we ? Only individuals must edit, so I assume you are a representative of the company. If so, you must make the appropriate declaration according to WP:COI and WP:PAID. After that, we can discuss it further. DGG ( talk ) 06:47, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear DGG,

Read both COI & PAID and have declared accordingly. Can the wiki page go live?

Draft:Airoll(Vehicle)

Hi DDG,

Thank you for reviewing - Draft:Airoll (Vehicle). As per your comments some sections have been reworded as to avoid paraphrasing and an etymology section has been added to discuss the naming of the vehicle. Please let me know if any other changes are needed.

An OTRS inquiry

Wikimedia received a request to delete a draft article ticket:2019122210000089 the relevant draft is Draft:Joseph G. Sorokin.

At the time of the request, the draft had not been edited in just short of six months. I responded to them that it would likely be automatically deleted in a few days. However, you edited the article in the interim resetting the six-month clock.

While they were willing to accept a few days delay, my guess is they won't be happy to hear that it will take at least another six months.

Do you have any particular thoughts?

I suppose I can nominate for AFD but I wanted to check with you first.S Philbrick (Talk) 15:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me look. It will take a day or two. DGG ( talk ) 06:08, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New Page Reviewer newsletter February 2020

Hello DGG,

Source Guide Discussion

The first NPP source guide discussion is now underway. It covers a wide range of sources in Ghana with the goal of providing more guidance to reviewers about sources they might see when reviewing pages. Hopefully, new page reviewers will join others interested in reliable sources and those with expertise in these sources to make the discussion a success.

Redirects

New to NPP? Looking to try something a little different? Consider patrolling some redirects. Redirects are relatively easy to review, can be found easily through the New Pages Feed. You can find more information about how to patrol redirects at WP:RPATROL.

Discussions and Resources

There is an ongoing discussion around changing notifications for new editors who attempt to write articles.
A recent discussion of whether Michelin starred restraunts are notable was archived without closure.
A resource page with links pertinent for reviewers was created this month.
A proposal to increase the scope of G5 was withdrawn.

Refresher

Geographic regions, areas and places generally do not need general notability guideline type sourcing. When evaluating whether an article meets this notability guideline please also consider whether it might actually be a form of WP:SPAM for a development project (e.g. PR for a large luxury residential development) and not actually covered by the guideline.

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 7095 Low – 4991 High – 7095

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here

16:08, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Edits Made - Following Up

Hey, DGG. I am following up on edits to the draft Granite_Telecommunications (see "Perplexed" above). We discussed the needed changes in December and I made the edits you requested at the time. Since the volume of interaction with you and the community is significant, I've quietly watching for updates. But now that we're coming up on a couple of months since the edits were made, I figure I should squeak, so I'm checking in to see if there's anything else I need to do. Also, I do plan to help with other business pages as you indicated is needed (especially since everyone's doing what I did -- make a page that looks like the other pages). In fact, I had been actively editing a range of content over the latter part of last year. But I held back since I wasn't looking for the things that you have pointed out to me here. I'll pick that back up when I see how this page nets out and I am confident that I'm not just replacing one bad edit with another... Thanks. Technutt (talk) 19:42, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

following up saturday or sunday, because you're doing good work and i want to clarify my comments in some detail, and discuss some related general issues. DGG ( talk ) 07:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Sounds good. I'll check in after the weekend then. Thanks. Technutt (talk) 20:40, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

still working on it. I'm much more behind than usual. I may have to skip a few NYC editathons to catch up. DGG ( talk ) 00:31, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Hello, thank you for accepting my draft article of Kharija ibn Hudhafa Ahendra (talk) 01:40, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eleiko

Hello DGG. Hope you are well. I noticed you put Eleiko up on AfC submission. What is the article missing and do you have any tips on how I can sort it out? Best, Kjell1918 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjell1918 (talk • contribs) 10:45, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

reply forthcoming DGG ( talk ) 00:09, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Ron Silver (chef)

Hi, thank you very much for taking the time to review my draft. I read the reason that you rejected it (a lack of significant coverage) and included four more reputable citations that feature Silver as the main subject, not just a passing mention. I also condensed some of the language in his biography so that every fact is backed up directly by a reputable source. I would love to get your thoughts on what more could be done or if you think that this is sufficient - want to follow the rules and create a quality page! Draft:Ron Silver (chef) MiaF1213 (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

replying tomorrow. DGG ( talk ) 07:13, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Review of article on Noma Copley

Thank you, DGG, for reviewing my entry on Noma Copley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Noma_Copley) and for your feedback. I've revised according to that feedback, removing all "peacock terms" and making the language more formal. I also added a few additional citations that underscore the notability of the subject. I resubmitted the entry for consideration. I hope that you will find that this revised version meets all the criteria for acceptance. I look forward to your response. Thanks.Gaw54 (talk) 19:03, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

tomorrow. DGG ( talk ) 07:11, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to pester you for a second review, but I am anxious to confirm whether or not I'm on the right track with this entry. I would very much appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to give my entry on Noma Copley another look. She has for too long been in the shadow of her former husband, William Copley, whose Wiki entry contributes, in my opinion, to her marginalization. I'm looking forward to being able to add a link to that Wiki page that enables readers to learn about his partner's role in activities for which he is being given sole credit. Thank you in advance. Gaw54 (talk) 17:18, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gaw54, before I had the opportunity to get there , an excellent reviewer, Schwede66, has accepted it and is workin on it further. I may have a chance to do some additional removal of promotional wording. You could help by changing the mentions of her by her first name to her last, and replacing at least half of them by "she" , and decreasing the namedropping . DGG ( talk ) 01:22, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback. The use of first names is to distinguish Noma from her (ex)husband Bill and are only used when they are both mentioned. I'll take a look for other places where "she" can be used. I'm not sure what you mean by dropping the namedropping. The context both in which and with whom she worked is important to her story, as are the names of the artists who were in her collection. That's what defines a notable collection. One question: can you explain why Carroll O'Conner is in red rather than linking to the Wiki page for him? Thanks again for taking time to review.Gaw54 (talk) 01:30, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hami Aksoy

Hi, how are you? why you move this article to draft? I think this person has notability in Wikipedia this person is the spokesperson to MFA in turkey all these sources talks weekly about him — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahmadqatari (talk • contribs) 11:18, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:The Roadex Project

Dear DGG. In my ignorance I appended a message for you in your Archive for September 2019 as that was the last time we corresponded. I have copied the text I inserted below. The only comment I would add to it is that I am having great difficulty in obtaining independent external evidence of the use of ROADEX technologies on public road networks as the average engineer and employing organisation involved do not normally publish such information. Engineers need to promote their work more in this regard and the ROADEX project is actively encouraging this. That said, any help/guidance you can give will be much appreciated. The text I appended in your September Archive was:

Dear DGG. Thanks again for your comments and letting me know about the help available on Teahouse. I made some changes to the ROADEX page in Sandbox following your comments and used it to replace the Draft in December. I am now picking up the page again to try to improve it further. Can I ask if you would be able to look over the current version and possibly give some advice on what is still needed? Editing Wikipedia is still a very new art to me! With best regards Ronmun (talk) 15:25, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eonmun, Promotional writing tells the audience what the subject would like them to know. Encyclopedic writing tells the audience what they would reasonably want to know and expect to find in an encyclopedia. Encyclopedic writing is directed to the general public who might come across the subject and want to find some objective information.

What people would reasonably like to know, is what the project has actually accomplished, and, perhaps, what it is in the process of accomplishing or plans to accomplish, in specific terms. What nobody outside the project and its supporters care about

What nobody but PR people would ever write or anyone including them would want to read is jargon such as "widest possible context." or " have been designed to help learning in the workplace and in academic institutions. All four are available in the main partner languages to encourage dissemination and implementation." "continuing to carry out joint research in areas of common interest." or " state-of-the-art surveys "or "Its aim was to move the ROADEX collaboration further" or " the web-based e-learning suite of four e-learning lessons " Nor does anyone, particularly an encyclopedia, want puffery such as "Such has been the success of the PEHKO project, and the potential operational savings it offers, that it was awarded ..". Just say what they were awards--most people know without being explicitly told that awards go to things that are deemed successes. The guide to avoid promotional wording is to say what you mean in the terms you would use in telling a person what you do.

It does matter which countries and agencies support the project. It's worth stating once, but not both in a table and in text. It does not matter to anyone but the staff how often the committee meets, nor how many of the meeting are on Skype

say partners , not Partners; don't keep repeating "ROADEX", try "the project" (not "the Project") or, even better, "it"

And, even more important, almost all the references are from the project itself. We need 3rd party references. DGG ( talk ) 23:17, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DGG, Thank you for your suggestions. I accept them all. I needed the guidance and will take a fresh look at the draft page.Ronmun (talk) 14:01, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DGG, Thank you for your note regarding conflict of interest. I have a statement at my User:Ronmun. Do I need to say more?Ronmun (talk) 22:23, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tushar Vasisht

Hi DGG,

I saw your message on Draft:Tushar Vasisht. Vasisht also has references even before he founded the company, such as [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]

Can you suggest what other changes should be made to the article? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.186.83.177 (talk) 17:38, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promotional writing tells the audience what the subject would like them to know. Encyclopedic writing tells the audience what they would reasonably want to know and expect to find in an encyclopedia . No one except his close associates for example, is likely to care about his college musical activities. Except for the article in th NYT India Blog, everything in the refs is either not indpendent, not substantial , or about his company. But I will let someone else review it if you submit it again. DGG ( talk ) 20:28, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Robert S. Gailey

Hi DGG,

Thank you for your feedback on my submission Robert S. Gailey, and for the edits you made on Jan 31st. I'm curious if you think I satisfied the Neutral Point of View with my edits on Jan 4th after your initial feedback. I cut out promotional terms and tried to focus on the publications and their impact.

Thank you for your time.

Soundingwell (talk) 03:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

soundingwell, what you now need to do is establish his notability as a scholar by checking in Google Scholar ofr th equivalent to see how much his peer-reviewed articles have bee cited. DGG ( talk ) 15:33, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Humanitarian Society

Hey DGG, thanks for reviewing Draft:The Humanitarian Society. I'm passionate about Italian history, especially from 1700 to present. This is my first draft, but I'm not sure how I can adjust the tone to make it more neutral. Please, consider it's a direct translation of it:Società Umanitaria. Can you please give me a few suggestions? Thank you! -- Kr1shnamur (talk) 09:17, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nepal

I just spotted an old archived RSN comment from you about Nepali literature: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 281 § Britannica.com. It's certainly true that British study of Asian literature was superficial at least at this time, but I was wondering if you have specific knowledge around the Nepalese question? There's a specific interest in Nepal through the Gurkha regiments which I had always thought would have led to better coverage of that region, but I don't know enough about it to have an informed view. I have a bit of an interest in this as there is a substantial local Nepalese community, mainly ex-Gurkha, and my son is in the British Army and knows a number of current serving members from his time at Sandhurst. Ayo Gorkhali! Guy (help!) 11:59, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

my own interest in this area is more about Tibet than Nepal, and not primarily about politics. the 1913 EB is erratic--in some cases, most notably tantra , it is blatantly biased. But I wouldn't necessarily call it superficial--they did understand the basic linguistics. There's a French and German scholarly literature also, which I have never read (and, I think Russian.And, from a totally different perspective, Chinese) It is necessary to keep in mind the very limited number of Europeans at the time who had any knowledge of the area, and the coverage will necessarily reflect their interests and preconceptions. And, I remain unconvinced about how current Indian and tibetan and Nepalese writing is objetive, rather than a nationalist reaction. This is a very peripherial field for me. DGG ( talk ) 15:30, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right, it might be hard to find current writing about any part of the region that is truly objective, there are so many political and religious axes being ground. Last time I was in India I discovered that renaming Bangalore to Bengaluru is still considered contentious, largely along caste lines. It's weird, because individual people in India especially - at least in my experience - are incredibly tolerant. I always put this down to the influence of Hinduism - when you have a thousand gods, fighting over one or other of them doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. But then Modi went out against Muslims, which is a bummer and really challenged my preconceptions. I love India, though. Guy (help!) 22:47, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Sander Lagast

Am I missing something, because the opening paragraphs of the text seem more like an attack section than anything else. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 21:56, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Vernon, you know, it read as self-promotion, but having read it twice I think you may be right: it is either spam by someone who has unusually low levels of self-awareness, or a rather clever piss-take by someone who doesn't like him.Guy (help!) 22:55, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

JzG What is the best way to proceed? DB-attack (removing the AfD)? Courtesy blanking? --Mr. Vernon (talk) 23:02, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Vernon, you need a rouge admin to apply a combined G11, G10, G3 and A7 rationale. Guy (help!) 23:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

people can have various combination of possibly friendly insults, and we have no way to tell either the actual intent, or the way it will be taken. People even say it about themselves, as a way of boasting.

As a separate issue, there is a tradition of unambiguous promotionalism in fields like self-help which make a point of how sinful the person was in their earlier life, and in the arts of how creatively they still misbehave

and, even more difficult, clever PR people sometimes deliberately include it in articles here, so they can defend against deletion at AfD, and they are sometimes successful. DGG ( talk ) 03:20, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

T

Animal species standard

Do we have any sort of notability standard in place for animal/plant species? We had an influx of stub articles such as Draft:Trigonopterus curvipes. I feel like I remember that if something has an official species name then it should be inherently considered notable. However, I can't find anything to confirm this. Surely, WP:GNG isn't required for every named species? Cheers. Sulfurboy (talk) 05:39, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I noticed these, and was trying to decide what to do with them. The rule is certainly that they can have an article, and I would never want to challenge that . But remember that the GNG says that if there is not sufficient inormation for a separate article, a combination article is preferable. In similar situations, where all that is really possible is a list of species, and especially if, as here, they are all sourced to one single published paper-- it seems to be usual practice to do just that. I'll advise the author accordingly. DGG ( talk ) 05:46, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Benevity

Hi, thank you for looking at Draft:Benevity. I'm confused by the move into draft space, why this instead of adding maintenance tags or AfD, with no discussion on talk prior to the move?

I disagree completely on it being 'undersourced' as a) there is no unsourced material in the article, and b) it has many significant, independent, reliable, secondary sources, in my opinion more than enough to meet WP:GNG and WP:COMPANY. While it may sound promotional, a) this is simply a reflection of the reliable sources and b) I don't believe that a promotional tone justifies removing the article from the namespace.

I'm annoyed that a consensus of one was able to remove this article from the encyclopedia, and that it will now have to undergo a long bureaucratic process rather than being improved in the namespace (my first time dealing with AfC - maybe I'm wrong). Thank you. -M.Nelson (talk) 10:09, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:DRAFTIFY

Other editors (including the author of the page) have a right to object to moving the page, and to have the matter discussed at WP:AfD. If an editor raises an objection, move the page back to mainspace and list at AfD. The etiquette about moving pages during deletion and review discussions is also good advice.

I ask that you revert the article to the mainspace and that we move to AfD if necessary. -M.Nelson (talk) 01:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, moving on. From DRAFTIFY I found WP:ADMINACCT

Administrators are accountable for their actions involving administrator tools, as unexplained administrator actions can demoralize other editors who lack such tools. Subject only to the bounds of civility, avoiding personal attacks, and reasonable good faith, editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions. Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrative actions and to justify them when needed. [emphasis mine]

Please follow the administrator accountability policy and respond to my above queries. If you will not reinstate the article per WP:DRAFTIFY, please explain to me why DRAFTIFY does not apply to this scenario. Thank you. -M.Nelson (talk) 21:43, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

reply forthcoming, but it will take a fe says. DGG ( talk ) 01:32, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"success" story

When we spoke the other day I mentioned a "success" story, but I didn't provide a specific example. The user in question is Beebuk. Two examples where he is provided significant contributions are: Jean-Gaspard Deburau and Paul Legrand.S Philbrick (Talk) 20:03, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

errors lately

[13] you forgot to sign your name and got some errors in your sentence. I check your contributions first thing I see is [14] with some spacing issues. Did you get a new keyboard and having trouble with it? Or using Wikipedia while drunk perhaps? ;) Dream Focus 20:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

tends to be a function of speed and sleepiness. The speed problem is usually the need (or at least the perceived need) to cope with the many hundreds of drafts and articles each day, but for these it’s my desire to respond to current questions and discussions while they are still current. Like others who have been active a long time, I’ve accumulated more topics in which I want to stay active than is really possible. DGG ( talk ) 01:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could I suggest automating the archival of this talk page, @DGG? It is very unwieldy at the moment. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 09:37, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

its actually in progress--, but it will never be short. DGG ( talk ) 11:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but I would not have asked you if your talk was merely "not short". "Not short" is not a problem. Having over five hundred active talk sections, however, is. But it doesn't have to be, since we have at least two bots that archive pages for us :-) Best Regards and keep up your good work! CapnZapp (talk) 14:17, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would help if you removed sections from this page, when they get archived. For example, the section User talk:DGG#Pi314m, Thanks also exists in User talk:DGG/Archive 155 Dec 2019 and in User talk:DGG/Archive 156 Jan. 2020. This is perhaps a bit too much? Fram (talk) 14:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My practice is to archive everything every week or two, whether or not I will keep it on the main page. The intention is that the archive be complete, and the main page the active and the important, from which I remove things when I can. I know this is not what most people do. It will make more sense when the page gets shorter. DGG ( talk ) 01:32, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

G13 Eligibility Notice

The following pages will become eligible for CSD:G13 shortly.

Thanks, HasteurBot (talk) 04:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Review" of Draft:Gerhard Lichtenfeld

What's the point of someone (me, in this case) noting the serious article problems when moving it to draft, if someone else will then "review" it and move it back to the mainspace without any improvements? I have moved it back to Draft:Gerhard Lichtenfeld. Fram (talk) 12:33, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fram,I think you may be right, because I should have verified the prize. DGG ( talk ) 16:27, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One of these days, I can take care of him. He is now a red link in the prize article, instead at least an ill-link. Sigh. - He designed the plaque given to winners, and got the prize in 1970, see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:40, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fram or DGG, could you please check again. I added that source, and more bio on another. Somehow we lost the function to request review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Articles for deletion/PayActiv

Hi David, I left a note in the discussion on Articles for deletion/PayActiv but thought perhaps here might be a better forum for updates. We appreciate the re-review of the article and are open to helping our situation. Can we work to reduce or remove the promotional language on the TALK page of the article and make our suggested edits? We want to follow policy and best practice. Let me know if there are recommendations outside of additional credible sources and language removal to be made. Thank you LucyArn (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ahmed Emara

Dear DGG,

The article that you have moved as Draft: Ahmed Emara, has been created as Stub and other editors have also added their input in it. The content that is researched, written and has citation from the WEB. Why has this page being moved to a DRAFt when the notability guidelines has been followed.

Kindly waiting for your reply. Thank You Terminatorwil (talk) 06:24, 21 February 2020 (UTC)terminatorwil[reply]

Talk page size 2

Hello DGG,

Your talk page is over a million bytes long, more than ten times too long. You've been asked to take action already in 2017 (as evidenced by this very page!). Nothing is happening. You probably already know you can set up automated archival in just a minute or two, yet you haven't done so. You are clearly not going to be able to successfully shorten this page without outside help, because, let's be honest, you don't want to make this page smaller.

As a courtesy to you, you are the first experienced editor I am going to ask: "who or where do I turn to in getting community assistance for a respected editor unable to keep his user talk page within guidelines?"

Of course, the more you do yourself, the less involved other editors have to get.

Have a nice day, and don't worry, if you want a week or two to sort this out, you'll have it (I won't check back for answers until 14 days from now unless you ping me). A random editor, CapnZapp (talk) 10:00, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do want to reduce it to a practical size; 500K would do well for my needs, but I will try for half that. I recognize the needs of others, but I have no solution for how to adapt WP to cell phones for any purposes but reading or copyediting. If you think you do, it would be a helpful thing to work on. There are more important things in WP that need doing, by both you and me. DGG ( talk ) 07:02, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do or do not, there is no try. Cheers, CapnZapp (talk) 16:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Or how about Quit with the nannying of other people's pages? This obsession with wikisource size is idiotic; I would have thought that by now everyone knows that transfer time is entirely dominated by the presence or absence of even a few images; text has little to do with it. DGG, you probably should make a pass to archive; CapnZ, you should go find something useful to do that doesn't involve acting like a cop. E Eng 19:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed a page listed for speedily deletion

Not sure if I did this right but I created my first full page and it was marked for speedy deletion. I've edited only a couple of pages in the past, this was my first creation of a new page but due to my inexperience it came across as advertising. I am not a marketer or paid by the company. I was trying to fill the page with as many facts as possible and it came across as salesy and I don't want the referenced company to pay the price for my poor writing. I thought it would be helpful for anyone looking for information I thought would have been useful during my search. I scrubbed the article of any information I was uncertain about and resubmitted. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KungFuAvenger (talk • contribs) 08:03, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When my entry for Ben Park

..didn't gather enough support for inclusion @ its 2nd discussion at articles for deletion you were the only other than myself so much as to mention that his 1st book had just then been published @ the cambridge university press. Second's going to be published in a few (hey! literally 3) days but's already got a half dozen reviews. Instead of - as I did today - pushing the draft into mainspace, Should - rather - I'd brought the question up in a deletion review do you think?--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 13:03, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]