User talk:Sharkguy05

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Welcome to Wikipedia[edit]

Welcome!


Hello, Sharkguy05, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. 05:41, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Talkback[edit]

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Rutebega (talk) 18:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

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Higdon tornado[edit]

I know why you think it deserves a section, but we can't keep adding all of those tornadoes into the main page. The path was only 47 miles (76 km), which is one reason it shouldn't be included (the other reasons being that it wasn't EF5 and it didn't hit a big town). The only reason I added Cordova and Uniontown was because they had path lengths of over 100 miles (160 km). Both the Higdon and Fackler tornadoes could have sections, but I would be against it due to the fact that the page is getting too long. United States Man (talk) 23:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Re:Enough is enough[edit]

First of all, you have once again failed WP:ASG and WP:NPA with that hateful message. But, I am probably guilty of ASG myself. The revert this time was because the car was already stated further down the paragraph. Before you accuse me of not reading, you need to read yourself. I don't delete sourced information for the fun of it, I delete it if I deem the information unnecessary. Don't pin this all on me, we are both at fault here. United States Man (talk) 04:17, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry much about lack of information at this point. Not to brag, but in my two years of editing, I have extensively improved consistency in the monthly and outbreak pages. And when NCDC comes out, I make sure I keep everything updated. Our only problem is that we have completely different views on what we think is "useful". United States Man (talk) 04:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Exactly, so compromise needs to be an option here. Sharkguy05 (talk) 04:39, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Sharkguy05

WP:3RR[edit]

Please do not continue your constant reverting. You've already violated WP:3RR and continued action will be considered intentionally disruptive. Talk it out with the other editor before continuing to edit the January 29–30, 2013 tornado outbreak. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 04:46, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Windsor tornado[edit]

I would be very happy to go with what you're saying about the home, but the problem is that breaches WP:OR. You're deriving your own conclusions from an image with no text from the source to back it up. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:36, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Sharkguy05 (talk) 20:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)Sharkguy05

Grazulis F5-F6 Tornadoes[edit]

I've noticed that you cited Grazulis' F5-F6 Tornadoes in some of your edits. I was wondering if you knew where I might obtain a copy for my own editing and research. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:19, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I got mine as a gift. Wish I could help you out, I can't really find a good online source to buy it from. It is out of print as far as I know. Sharkguy05 (talk) 21:49, 2 July 2013 (UTC)Sharkguy05

July 2013[edit]

Information icon Welcome to Wikipedia. At least one of your recent edits, such as the edit you made to List of F5 and EF5 tornadoes, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at the welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make some test edits, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. No more of this. Although Grazulis is reliable, if there are other sources (which there are) it would be best to go by them (the NCDC pdf) since the Grazulis info isn't entirely available online. Anymore reverting and I will start a discussion here. One of the main WP guidelines is the statement: If you do not want your work to be edited, used, and redistributed by others, then do not submit it here. Good day. United States Man (talk) 04:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC) United States Man (talk) 04:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Also please be aware of WP:AGF, WP:NPA, WP:3RR, and especially WP:OWN. You are a consistent violator of those policies. United States Man (talk) 05:00, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I will compromise and mention Lacon in the notes column Sharkguy05 (talk) 05:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)Sharkguy05

To answer your question, remember that this tornado was in 1942. Not as many sources as in 1998 and 2011. If there was no other ref, then it would be fine to use Grazulis. But since Grazulis info isn't available online, it would be better to use the actual article. On the side, I actually agree with you about rdfox. In no way was that completely unsourced. Thanks for the compromise. United States Man (talk) 08:10, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

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August 2013[edit]

I know what you add is generally sourced, but please use {{cite web}} for the references instead of just pasting a link and making it look tacky. Thanks, United States Man (talk) 21:15, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

WT:SEVERE#RfC[edit]

Just a note since I didn't get you notified with the WikiProject Severe weather participants; you don't seem to be listed as a member of the project. Ks0stm (TCGE) 01:52, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Re: Tanner/Guin (and Xenia) sources[edit]

I am glad that you asked to verify my sources. While I do not own the books cited and have not read all the information found in those sources, I have heard from credible people (on other Web sites) who have, and while their information seemed to corroborate most of the accounts from J. B. Elliott, they also seemed to indicate that the accounts were, in whole or in part, independently available from the said books. I will explain further. First: the information on the Xenia tornado's removal of sidewalk pavers is actually taken from someone who knew a relative in his family who was present in the aftermath at Xenia and recalled seeing the damage described. While I am not sure that the information is stated in the Xenia sources that I added, those sources include numerous photos of the damage, and I recall having seen a photocopy of one of the photos that showed the damage to the sidewalks and the ground scouring. The data on the Guin tornado's forward movement was actually stated on the back of the book by C. F. Boone, where a radar operator at Centreville recalled seeing the Guin supercell moving at 113 miles per hour (182 km/h). Since J. B. Elliott mentioned this information along with the other stuff in his accounts, he was probably alluding to data that he culled from a body of sources. Since he once recommended, to my recollection, the sources that I listed for further information on the Tanner and Guin tornadoes, I am assuming that his claims came from the sources that I listed. Also, I am absolutely certain that I have seen Guin photocopies from the Jordan (1987) book showing ground scouring from the air--this was an actual aerial photograph of Guin, not the satellite photo that appears in the green book. In summation, while I am not absolutely, 100% certain that my sources contain all the claims cited herein, I am quite confident that the data came from those sources. I have only seen some photocopies from these sources that have served as support for this hunch. I would recommend trying to locate the sources and reading them in whole. Again, as I am not 100% confident, feel free to remove the data if need be. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

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Bolding in tables[edit]

The most appropriate formatting for tornado tables against WP:MOS was already determined earlier this year. I went through an ugly FLC with the List of tornadoes in the 1999 Oklahoma tornado outbreak just for this purpose. There are no places where bold is necessary across the table. Please use this as an example for all future tables as well. There's an enormous amount of work that needs to be done to fix up older ones as well in order to comply with WP:MOS, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon... Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:35, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the info. Sharkguy05 (talk) 00:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)Sharkguy05

Re: Birmingham 1977 Ground Scouring[edit]

Look at the upper left-hand corner in this image. Note the streak of lighter shading and compare that area to the rest of the damage at the center and right. Also, a reminder: please sign your posts next time. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 23:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

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Green Isle and Fridley Commons Park ground scouring[edit]

I am curious as to why you removed my picture-based references to ground scouring in Early-May 1965 tornado outbreak sequence. For the reference to ground scouring on the April 1977 Birmingham tornado, I referred to a picture that showed, or appeared to show, a broad area of ground scouring, and when I gave the photographic source to you, you never said I could not use it. Also, several of the tornadoes on the F5 list, including the Udall tornado (for which the ground scouring detail was your addition, not mine, if I recall correctly), mention ground scouring that is not explicitly stated in sources but is visible in photographs. Please try to be a little consistent, or explain why I am wrong here. If I am not supposed to use pictures, then I am not sure why you have, or at least did not object to my using them at first. And I am not sure why my interpretations, as opposed to yours, are somehow less or more accurate. I am not a tornado expert, and I am not sure what your qualifications are, but I would at least give some reason as to why my interpretations on what constitutes ground scouring are wrong, while yours are apparently more accurate. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 16:06, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

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Reversion of recent edits to F5/EF5 tornado list[edit]

I have noticed that you have removed several of my changes to the F5/EF5 list. I disagree with some of them, and I will explain why (and provide proof as to why). First, you removed the part about the foundation being blown away in Wheatland, Pennsylvania. That detail came directly from the Storm Data publication, which is now available online for years between 1959 and 2013. Just select the issue (month/year) you want to view and click next; you will get a link to the PDF file. Just select 1985-05 and then click next. The May 1985 publication is also available on the NWS Cleveland page. On p. 15, a caption just below the second row of photographs mentions "a Wheatland home that was blown loose from its foundation (left), and one where one person died and all that remains is the cellar and part of the foundation" (emphasis added). It seems self-evident that at least part of the foundation was blown away—otherwise, the NWS would not have mentioned this detail. Also, "part" of the foundation, rather than all of the foundation, being missing seems more realistic and is consistent with damage from more recent events like the Hackleburg tornado (cracked Mt. Hope foundation) on April 27, 2011. If part of the foundation were missing, then it was rather self-evidently swept away/broken off.

Re: the lot in Guin, aerial photography from the book April 3, 1974: The Alabama Tornadoes by C. F. Boone give a broad view of Guin, and the largest lot in Guin (and that appears to be mostly swept clean of debris) is the lot on which the industrial building stood. For instance, this image shows the site at top left. This photo, combined with the footage from the ABC/AlabamaWx video, rather clearly shows that the industrial building was flattened and had much of the surrounding area swept clean of visible debris. Another image offers an even better view of the phenomenon. If Grazulis were referring to a smaller lot, he probably would have not mentioned its being swept clean of all debris in the green book. After all, a smaller lot could be closer to trees and other objects, providing more debris with which to hammer/sweep away structures, while the industrial building was exposed, on large lot, and was not surrounded by large objects or vegetation. So I think all the evidence points to the industrial building site and the lot in Grazulis being one and the same.

As for Fergus Falls, perhaps you didn't read the NWS source very closely, for the second paragraph contains a sentence that very clearly states, "There were numerous reports of extreme damage, such as train tracks being pulled out of the ground." That is a clear citation of a damage example that occurred in the tornado and was representative of its extreme intensity generally. The way the sentence is worded makes clear that the "train tracks being pulled out of the ground" were one of the extreme phenomena reported or photographed in this tornado. I don't see why that detail should be removed, especially as it is a NWS source and, therefore, is presumably more reliable than some first-hand, exaggerated accounts of damage in a local newspaper.

Finally, double-check the Barneveld link and scroll down to a section entitled "Tornado Damage in Barneveld." Look at the fifth image and note that, on the right hand, there is a low shrub/small tree that rather clearly shows debarking. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 15:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

April 27–30, 2014 tornado outbreak[edit]

Hello. Your move summary was truncated, so perhaps you could reiterate the rationale.

Based on a sample of our other tornado outbreak articles, the naming seems inconsistent. Some titles specify only the month and year, while others include date ranges or the prefixes "early-"/"mid-"/"late-". Still others combine the month and year with the location.

I have a vague recollection of a decision to include only the month and year unless additional disambiguation is needed (because more than one tornado outbreak occurred in that period). But I'm not 100% certain of that, and either way, it doesn't appear that any fully consistent naming scheme has been implemented. —David Levy 22:53, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

The non-specific month only titling was an old policy for tornado articles that has not been used since 2011. It was agreed sometime after 2010 that dates were to always be included. This can be confirmed by looking at the articles. You are going to have to trust me on this.
Sharkguy05 (talk) 23:24, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Sharkguy05
Can you please retype the end of the explanation that you included in your move summary? Because of the character limit, this is what made it through: "This isn't how we title tornado articles. In the spring, we usually see more than one significant outbreak per month. We stay specific by default because..."
Also, do you happen to know where the relevant discussion occurred (and where it's archived)? Thanks! —David Levy 00:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
The reasoning behind it is that we could have for example an outbreak from the 5th to the 7th, and another from the the 20th to the 21st in the same month (June lets say). Obviously, we can't title both of those as "June 2014 tornado outbreak". Also, the NWS pretty much always lists the dates in their outbreak summaries. I can't think of one where they don't except for when the outbreak is infamous enough to get a title (1974 Super Outbreak, 1965 Palm Sunday Outbreak, 2012 Leap Day outbreak ect.)
Sharkguy05 (talk) 03:29, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Sharkguy05
The reasoning behind it is that we could have for example an outbreak from the 5th to the 7th, and another from the the 20th to the 21st in the same month (June lets say). Obviously, we can't title both of those as "June 2014 tornado outbreak".
That much is clear. I'm inquiring about instances in which there wasn't more than one tornado outbreak in a given month.
Also, the NWS pretty much always lists the dates in their outbreak summaries.
I would hope so. And we certainly should include the dates in our articles. But our titles generally don't contain that level of detail unless it's necessary for disambiguation. The relevant policy, WP:PRECISION, has some exceptions. Can you point me to the discussion(s) in which one was established for tornado outbreaks? —David Levy 04:35, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
I await your response. —David Levy 04:08, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

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Thank you[edit]

I can't believe that I was so stupid. I never bothered to read the part where it was talking about Thursday and Friday (instead of Tue. and Wed.). That just screws everything up; to think, all the work and no one noticed. I don't know who put those on here, but they must've been on a desperate survey hunt. Anyway, we are actually down to 355 because the Berrian Springs, MI tornado was also in the survey. I always wondered why they weren't on NCDC. I guess times like these are the reasons you can't always trust Wikipedia, but at least we try. Thanks again, United States Man (talk) 14:37, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

P.S. -- Could you please look in as many places as you can think of a write-up about this to correct the total. I will do so as well. United States Man (talk) 14:37, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

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Removing AfD template[edit]

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List of U.S. tornado pages[edit]

Hey, I was just wondering how you're updating these pages. Are you completely redoing the pages or just finding the storm events that exist for the tornadoes already on the page? I ask because there's a huge discrepancy between the stats on Wiki and the SPC stats. Wiki lists 113 tornadoes for April, SPC lists 128. Wiki lists 61 for May, SPC lists 130, and so on. I was going to completely redo these pages as I just did for the August-September page (which matches SPC's count perfectly now), but I don't know what to do since I didn't realize how much time you've spent on the other pages. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 00:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I did not get the memo not to use the "area" tag. If it's that much of an issue, I won't use it in the future. However, I don't appreciate the disparaging edit summaries. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 21:56, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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Declined speedy[edit]

I've declined the speedy for Mid-May 2010 tornado outbreak. The problem is that mainspace articles are not eligible for WP:G13, which can only be used on draftspace articles. The page doesn't really fit under any of the speedy deletion criteria so if you want to pursue deletion then AfD would be the best course of action here. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 07:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Substitution[edit]

I think you should add "subst:" before the word "delete" in the template. Dustin (talk) 23:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Done (not sure if I did it right though)

Sharkguy05 (talk)
You did do it correctly. However, it turns out that it might not be necessary to substitute for all deletion templates; just some of them. As a result, I guess you have to go to the template pages to see whether the template should be substituted. Regardless, your template has been replaced by a proposed deletion template by another user. Dustin (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

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Central Oklahoma tornado ratings[edit]

I noticed that when you added the tornado tables at Draft:May 5–6, 2015 tornado outbreak, you also included ratings for the Central Oklahoma tornadoes. The problem is that the reference you used (here) does not show any ratings. Maybe I'm missing something, but please explain? Thanks. Dustin (talk) 20:48, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Copy-paste page move[edit]

Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Draft:May 5–7, 2015 tornado outbreak a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into May 5-7, 2015 tornado outbreak. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut-and-paste-move repair holding pen. Thank you. (I added this template per the advice at the copy-paste move repair page) Dustin (talk) 20:01, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

My apologies. I usually never mess with drafts so I didn't really know what to do with it. I'll make sure not to do this in the future.

Sharkguy05 (talk) 23:44, 8 May 2015 (UTC)Sharkguy05

It's not a problem. The template I tagged the article with ({{Histmerge}}) said it might be a good idea to "Please consider placing {{subst:Uw-c&pmove|Draft:May 5–7, 2015 tornado outbreak|to=May 5-7, 2015 tornado outbreak}} ~~~~ on the talk page of the editor who performed the cut-and-paste move." so I did. :) Dustin (talk) 03:14, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 23 June[edit]

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Re: "area"[edit]

No need to bite me. I just follow the pattern that has been in place for years. No one has ever made a fuss about "area" before in the years I've been working with the tables and it's been used to represent tornadoes passing close to (generally within a mile) of towns/cities. No one brought it up during the massive overhaul I did a few years back to bring the tables to proper standards with various parts of WP:MOS (yet people still ignore a few things...but that's a gripe for another day). The distance markers are determined from the town/city center, so outer parts of the population center can still be directly impacted while the center remains unscathed. Thus, "area" is used to indicate that places in the immediate vicinity of the town/city center were impacted. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:55, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

"Area"[edit]

There has never been a project-wide discussion on the usage of area, so claiming that it's established practice to not use it "since 2014" is inherently false. I've been with project since 2007, something like that wouldn't go unnoticed. Secondly, you're the only person to not use "area" within the tornado tables...which means it's not a consensus, it's your assumption/conjecture that it's to be removed. Feel free to start up a discussion on WP:SEVERE, but be sure to ping all major members of the project. However...other editors continue to use "area" and have already backed me up on reverting your senseless changes. I don't want to slap a warning template for disruptive editing on you since you've been editing for a little while...but I'll be forced to if you continue this silly game. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:43, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Despite each of the examples really only being your own edits (checked through the histories and each time "area" was removed it was either you or an IP which I assume is also you)...I'll admit my stance was incorrect based on the actual reasoning provided. Apologies for being so standoffish. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 05:00, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

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Talkback[edit]

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EF4 tornado in Mississippi[edit]

Dude, the source is right in the edit message, it's by the NWS in Memphis... Jdcomix (talk) 16:25, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 28 December[edit]

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Page Split[edit]

Nearly 175 tornadoes in April and nearly 400 tornadoes in May is too high of a count to have on the same page. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 01:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

May 2016[edit]

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May 7-10 tornado outbreak article[edit]

I don't feel that the deletion of this article was justified. It may have been in need of work, but there's no denying that the May 7-10 event was a significant outbreak - 41 confirmed tornadoes including four confirmed EF3 tornadoes and one confirmed EF4 tornado over a period of four days - meanwhile the May 15-17, 2013 tornado outbreak has an article despite being shorter in duration, having fewer confirmed tornadoes, and having fewer confirmed EF3+ tornadoes. It's true that the 2013 outbreak was deadlier than last week's outbreak, but then the June 5-6, 2010 tornado outbreak has an article despite only having caused one (non-tornadic) fatality. In a nutshell I don't see a reason why the May 15-17, 2013 and June 5-6, 2010 tornado outbreaks should have articles, but not the May 7-10, 2016 outbreak. Just something to think about. --Anonymous Macaw (talk) 14:02, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Re: May 7-10 tornado outbreak article[edit]

No problem, I just assumed you were the one who deleted the article because you removed the main page template from the "tornadoes of 2016" article. It seems that it's been decided that the article stays anyway.

Also, just in case you haven't been watching the streams, there has been a major tornado in Dickinson County, Kansas this evening. Houses leveled, trees debarked, a good sized tree tossed through the air, a front end loader crumpled/collapsed, and reports of railroad tracks being ripped out of the ground. No reported fatalities yet, thankfully, but since there have been almost 80 tornadoes reported this week and the fact that there's now at least one that will probably be rated EF4+, this system may need an article soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymous Macaw (talkcontribs) 03:35, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 6 November[edit]

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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

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The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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