Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 21

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October 21[edit]

Watching the US election from abroad[edit]

I live in Asia, and I've been following the upcoming election eagerly for the last year or so through various online sources (mostly news clips from youtube and shows like The Daily Show) and I'm wondering now if there is any way I might be able to follow the precedings live on election day over the internet. I am liberal and I don't have much favourable to say about the big US news outlets, so I'd like to avoid networks like CNN if possible, and Fox and Friends at all costs. I don't think CNN streams live over the internet anyway? Thanks in advance! (talk) 04:24, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

CNN does seem to have a link on their page to "live video", but it isn't working for me in Firefox even with the extra plugin whatever it is... hmmm. (talk) 04:42, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Based on your IP address, you are in Japan. Since you mentioned you are a liberal (a classical liberal?), I recommend listening to WBAI from here in New York over the internet as they usually have a live stream; I listen to WBAI semi-regularly and you can also download programming for future use. Here is a link to the streaming page. --Blue387 (talk) 04:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll check that out. Hopefully I'll be able to find some sort of video stream though. I'm guess I'm more of a leftist than a liberal; I don't relate to any party. Also, it's not such a big deal that the broadcast be leftist, I just don't want to subject myself to... well, you know. (talk) 05:03, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I remember that during the 06 midterms a google search of "election coverage" gave very well-vetted results. I think google even had an election center with a live streaming "google map" of results as they came in. Yahoo had one as well. I'm sure (seeing as this is going to be such a huge election) they will be doing it all to an even greater degree. Including the major networks and CNN's site. NByz (talk) 05:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
If you're looking for web coverage based outside the US 9and therefore at least likely to be slightly less biased one way or the other) then you could do worse than checking out what's on offer at the BBC's US election news pages. It's likely they'll have live as-it-happens coverage. Grutness...wha? 05:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Just a little food for thought. In the 1960 election many people who tracked the debates on the radio believed Nixon would win. While those that watched TV believed, more so, in Kennedy. It's just my opinion that public appearance, of any form, and polatics should be kept apart. President Lula can bearly read. Although he's one of the best presidents Brazil's ever had, a man like him wouldn't stand a chance in the US.HitmanNumber86 (talk) 07:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Lula's done alot for Brazil, but whether or not he's "one of the best president's Brail's ever had" depends alot on who you ask. And there are alot of foreign officials who wouldn't stand a chance in the US. I saw Fareed Zakaria talk a few months ago and--making a general point that the US doesn't make any attempt to take any lessons from what works and what doesn't work in the world at large--Fareed raised the example of Nicolas Sarkozy who, according to him, effectively ran on the platform that 'France should be more like Great Britain.' Can you even imagine a US politician running on the platform that the US should be more like Canada? Political campaigns are driven by public appearances. I'd like to hear your vision of a political campaign featuring an invisible candidate. -- (talk) 07:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
By the way, "a lot" is two words, not one. (talk) 13:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Brazilian politics aside, I'd like to go back to the original question. I don't quite understand why it matters what source you're looking at on the day since they'll all be reporting the same outcomes. Who becomes the next president doesn't change whether you watch FOX or CNN. Whether you go to the ballpark or watch the game on ESPN, the same teams win or lose. Dismas|(talk) 07:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
People watch the media they are comfortable with. If I wanted to get coverage of a British election result, I would buy the Guardian rather than the Sun. Same with TV channels. --Richardrj talk email 07:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure will be streaming live coverage of the election night. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 20:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

(I am OP, my IP has probably changed) HitmanNumber86: While in principle, the candidate's appearance in public shouldn't matter towards their electibility, the truth is that the majority of USians will be/have been watching them on telly-tube and thus appearance does/will/has mattered to them. There is no question that a candidate's eloquence is a factor in their favourability. I choose not to let that affect my judgement, but it's not my individual opinion that matters in the end, so I would like to have some perspective. Dismas: It does matter what source I'm watching when some have a habit of referring to certain candidates in ways that would make me want to break my computer screen. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. (talk) 23:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Might I put in a plug for C-SPAN? (Full disclosure: I work for them.) Lot's of interesting video and other stuff at . —D. Monack talk 01:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
After watching all three debates recorded off of C-SPAN (on YouTube) I never thought to look and see if they had live coverage on their website. D : Thanks for that, C-SPAN will do just fine! (talk) 04:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Reverse address homeowner/leaseholder lookup[edit]

I'm looking for the homeowner or leaseholder of a specific address in California. I need to find the homeowner or leaseholder of that address, specifically. All the reverse lookup websites I find tell me the name on the account number of the landline registered to the address. I know this because they keep telling me I live there. I currently live in Illinois and recently recieved a final notice on a landline account I never opened. When I was stationed in MCAGCC Twentynine Palms my information got tossed around so much it could have been any of the Marines stationed there at the time. You can see my predicament. I would like to clarify that I'm not asking a legal question. Where can I find a service (preferably free) that will allow me to do a reverse address lookup, that does not use the account holder name for the registered phone number, but the name on the homeowner/leaseholder contract? (talk) 05:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You should be able to find out via the property tax registry. You didn't tell us the city/town/county that the address is in - so it's hard to be specific. But (for example), I live in Williamson county in Texas - so I can type "Williamson county appraisal district" into Google and find - clicking on the obvious links on that site leads me to a search facility for that county. There I can search by address, enter my home address - and right there, up comes my name - my home address (which might not be the same as the address of the property). Hopefully, a bit of digging around will find that information for your district too. SteveBaker (talk) 09:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Interesting. I did the same search that you did and found out that I'm actually 15 years older than I thought I was.  :-/ Dismas|(talk) 10:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Probably San Bernardino County. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 10:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm - then there is a problem: The San Bernadino equivalent of the site I mentioned here in William's county, Texas is - which lets you search by property parcel number, tract number - and all sorts of other weird things - but not by address. In their FAQ, they say:
  • Question: Why can't we search by address on this website?
  • Answer: California Government Code 6254.21 restricts the posting of addresses on the internet. Providing a search mechanism would defeat the intent of this legislation since the names are listed on the site.
  • Question: Since this website has so many restrictions because of California Government Code 6254.21, what options do I have?
  • Answer: You have two options if you want more information than is provided on this website.
    1. You can go to your nearest San Bernardino County Assessor office and use a kiosk. The kiosk has a version of this website which includes the ability to search by property owner names, search by property situs address, view maps etc.
    2. The Assessor provides an application that is not constrained by 6254.21, it is a subscription based application which runs on your Microsoft Windows based computers. The application is called PIMSINQUIRYSERVICE. Contact the assessors office for more information.
I guess that covers your options. (Just in case you Californians are feeling happy that your state government is protecting your privacy - I should explain that Code 6254.21 only protects the names and addresses of government employees and elected officials...the office of the assessor only hides everyone's addresses because they can't be bothered to sort out who is a government employee and who isn't!)
SteveBaker (talk) 10:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks guys. Although, I did come up with the idea, last night, of calling his neighbors and asking who lives next door. I have a pretty good idea of who it might be. What was really weird was, I got the information yesterday, and around ten at night I got a strange call from the same area code. It turned out to be on of the other Marines I used to work with. I told him my shpeil and he gave me a couple names that live in the town in question.HitmanNumber86 (talk) 17:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Costs of a phone-call, post being transferred (in the UK)[edit]

If I call a 'local' number (say a 1p a minute number) and speak with them for 2 minutes, but then they transfer me through to an 0845 (or say a 50p minute phone-line) and speak with those for 5 minutes what would you expect I would be charged? Would it be...2p for local + 250p for call-centre = 252p? Or would it be 350p (50p x 7 minutes) or would it be 7p (1p x 7 minutes)? I guess the first one, but just wondered if there were any rules regarding 'charges' when using transferring a call? (I.e. I never put the phone down but have effectively spoken to 1 person at local rate and another at 'call centre' rate). (talk) 10:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Just a related comment: I try never to use 0845 numbers (expensive) so I check with, it must have saved me a bundle over the years.--Artjo (talk) 11:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how the British system works, but in the US, you are billed based on the number you called. I suspect the British system is similar, because the telephone switching equipment can't switch you between numbers once the call has been connected, only between different lines at the same number. --Carnildo (talk) 22:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
0845 IS local rate. You mean 0870 or some such.--ChokinBako (talk) 10:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Maybe but they still play you music ad infinitum, and/or keeping you hanging on to rack up the charges. The web page I referred to above gives you alternative (UK) geographical or 0800 (free call) numbers.--Artjo (talk) 12:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
0845 might be "local rate", but that's not the same thing as the rate for a local number. The simple two-tier local/national rates went away a long time ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Old Bottle[edit]

Have found an old brown bottle with the wording embossed on the side "Guys of B'ham" and the stopper has "war grade" written on it, cannot find anything in Google etc. anyone know anything about this company? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

It would be short for Guys of Birmingham and given your IP that would probably be the UK one. Do you have a picture of the bottle or any idea of what it might of contained? CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 10:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I was naive enough to try a google web search for Guys of Birmingham. What an eye-opener! -- Q Chris (talk) 11:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Eeek! Me too!...although it was more of an "eye closer" than "eye opener"! :-O SteveBaker (talk) 12:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I haven't done the search, but I picture some British version of Fredericks of Hollywood. Is that wrong of me? 11:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Our questioner has an IP address that suggests Europe - so probably we're talking about Birmingham, England - not Birmingham, Alabama. So "war grade" suggests a date probably during the first or second world war. What comes in a bottle that's graded differently in wartime and needs to be kept in a brown bottle? Beer is the most likely candidate - and a Google search for "War Grade" beer turned up this reference which is about World War II in the UK and includes the line: "I have recovered a bottle, the top of which I noticed sticking out of the soil. It is a beer bottle named ORIGINAL BREWERY Co Lt CHELTENHAM. The cap is engraved WAR GRADE.". So this makes it pretty certain that our OP's bottle is a British beer bottle from the second world war. I also found that during the war: "No white flour is sold or used in Britain. The mills are all controlled by the Government and all flour is now war grade, which means it is made of about 70 per cent white flour and other grains, rye, corn (which we call maize), barley, rice-flour, etc ., are added.". It seems likely that such shortages of particular grains would force unusual formulations on beer brewers also. Presumably the brewery would want to make it clear that the unusual taste of this particular bottle of beer was because it used "War Grade" ingredients and that customers should not think badly of the brand because of that. So - all that remains is to ask whether "Guys" was ever a brewery...but searches for Guys Brewery and Guys Beer didn't turn up anything convincingly appropriate. SteveBaker (talk) 12:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Googling [1] eventually got me to "Edkins and Guy", a pub cum brewery in Sparkbrook / B´ham , apparently long defunct. PS: Ms Guy was a lady, which may explain the Google results mentioned above. PS2: The brief article on it may indicate that we are talking about WW I, by the way. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 12:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
"Pub cum brewery?" Edison (talk) 14:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Microbrewery. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Roughly, although that term isn't used in the UK. Some pubs in the UK have (or had, it's less common now, I think) their own brewery, that's all "pub cum brewery" means ("cum" being Latin for "with", I believe). --Tango (talk) 17:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it does mean that. These days, you'd be more likely to see "pub and brewery", cf. "bar and grill" etc, because "cum" has come to mean something else, the details of which I won't get into. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
It's not just a British-english usage: summa cum laude - passed with distinctions.
It's usually confined to Latin expressions such as this, rather than being part of the English language proper. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:26, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
In US-english, yes - but in British-english it's quite common to say A-cum-B to suggest that the A is somehow converted into a B or that the subject shares the attributes of an A and a B. So you might (I suppose) talk about a hybrid-technology car as being petrol-cum-battery powered - or an administrator in a small company might be their accountant-cum-human-resources person. I agree that this usage is becoming rarer than it was - but I still hear it quite a bit when I talk with fellow Brits. SteveBaker (talk) 12:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Disaster Management[edit]

Can you give a brief description of what the relationship between prevention, mitigation preparedness, response, and recovery —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I can, but I won't, because I believe this to be a homework question and my desire to do your homework for you is just about as great as your desire to come over and wash my underwear for me. As far as homework goes, I'm strictly quid pro quo, Buckaroo. (You may, however, be interested in Emergency management. That little tip is worth about one pair of socks. Better hop to it, too, I'm almost out of clean pairs.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 12:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Well if you have perfect prevention you don't need any mitigation, preparedness, response, or recovery. (I suggest you don't put that in your homework) -- Q Chris (talk) 12:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

report help!!! (Review of existing programmes)[edit]

i need some help, i have to do a report but im struggling with one of the documentaries i have to review , in my brief it says "pick 4 factual programmes and explain how they differ in terms of form, style and treatment ( do not refer to content" , i just dont know what i am suppose to write about.

One of my main problems is i dont know what type of documentary it is (The Undcover Soldier), whether it is event doc, doc account, doc journey or fly-on-the-wall??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm taking it that event, account, journey, and fly-on-the-wall are types of documentaries you're studying in your course. A good way to clarify those definitions is to talk to your professor/teacher, or to others in your class -- work through your understandings of the terms to clarify them. I haven't seen The Undercover Soldier, but just going by the labels you provide: an event documentary to me would center on a point in time (the 9/11 attacks, the Quebec plebiscite on independence). An account to me would recreate someone's personal experience (telling the story of discrimination through the words of W. E. B. Dubois). Journey seems less clear, but I'm imagining something like an attempt to recreate the voyages of Odysseus or to build a pyramid using only techniques known to the Egyptians). Fly-on-the-wall would, I think, recreate a past event, sticking as closely as possible to words and documents of the time. But, I'm not in your class. --- OtherDave (talk) 13:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Fly on the wall is where the camera follows some events as they happen, trying to disturb the events as little as possible with its presence. It's the kind of documentary that The Office is spoofing. But seriously, dude, go and ask your teacher, not some random people on the internet. Contrary to popular opinion teachers are there to help you learn, and if you didn't understand something they said they are almost always willing to explain it. And no, you won't lose marks for asking questions. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
In fact, a student who shows an interest by asking questions is probably going to leave a better impression than one who doesn't. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 14:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Really, really, REALLY sharp sword question[edit]

I watched a movie where this one dude had a sword that could cut through anything (no, it wasn't a lightsaber, it was an honest-to-god metal sword.) Later in the movie the dude explained that the sword's cutting edge was only one atom thick, enabling it to cut through all but the most dense of solids. If, hypothetically, we had the technology to do this, would this work? 31306D696E6E69636B6D (talk) 13:53, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Superthin blades like that would probably be effective... if you could keep the blade intact. The problem with something that thin, though, is that it doesn't have much strength. Any force not in the plane of the blade destroys it. Larry Niven worked around this in his Ringworld books by putting the blade in a "stasis field", but then we're back into the realm of the completely imaginary. — Lomn 14:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
If it did work, you would probably blunt the blade extremely quickly. --Tango (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
As a point of interest, a similar concept is monomolecular wire, which has been featured in various science fiction settings, typically consisting of a single strand of molecules. Whether this would be in any way feasible is, of course, another story. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 15:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Even if you allow magic, it's logically impossible for a sword to be able to cut through *anything*, since it could not cut through an identical sword (when struck symmetrically). --Sean 17:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
You mean "everything", and I disagree - there's no reason why the two swords can't cut through eachother. --Tango (talk) 17:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
(ec) Why couldn't the two swords simply cut each other at the same time? I mean, logically speaking. -- (talk) 17:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Mythbusters tried sword vs sword (only worked one time) and sword vs gun barrel (busted). Clarityfiend (talk) 22:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
As pointed out, the downside to sharpness is usually brittleness (the entire history of sword metallurgy has been a series of ways of minimizing this limitation). You could imagine nanotechnology that would consistently re-form a monomolecular tip of the cutting edge, repairing it and reenforcing it or something like that. We don't have the technology to do this right now though. But given a very fertile imagination about the possibilities of nanotechnology, would could imagine it. It would take energy, though, to operate. -- (talk) 17:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
How sharp/tough do you want it? [2]--GreenSpigot (talk) 17:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
It all comes down to hardness vs strength in a balance of elements and molecular density within' the alloy you choose. If it's concentrated on hardness, a pure carbon, or diamond blade for example, It will hold an edge cutting through anything; although, any form of shock or bending will shatter the blade. If it's concentrated on strength, such as a titanium blade, you can bend it, throw it or hit it with a rock and it will stay intact; but, you will have to sharpen it periodically while avoiding gouges from occuring on the blade edge, and avoiding bending the blade past it's elasticity. The closest you can come to a "perfect blade" would be to use the sandwich method. Cold Steel sells a blade style (Dai Pan, I believe?) that uses high carbon steel sandwiched between standard high grade steel. The idea is that the strong steel protects the hard steel. If you can get a carbon sheet one molocule thick and sandwich it between titanium coated high grade steel (to prevent rust while avoiding bending (aswell the steel grain would have to run with the blade)), then you will have the best and most expensive blade possible. Keep in mind though, diamonds cut diamonds, humans, less their water, are made mostly out of carbon. Thus, your blade would ware slowly, but hold an edge as the titanium recedes faster then the carbon. If anyone were to create a sword like this it would have to be weighted toward the front to have some sort of inertia for slashing rather then just cutting (unless it is intended to be an obcenely large camping tool)(also, weighted towards the front means you can make the hilt weigh less). A blade like this would be much more logical in a dagger. A lengthy, yet well researched response. I've been trying to design the perfect blade for years. This is the best I've come up with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HitmanNumber86 (talkcontribs) 18:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm not an expert on swords, but as far as I know Japanese swords are one of the sharpest and toughest swords in the world. They cut bullets. See [3], [4] and [5]. Oda Mari (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Any good cutting implement could cut bullets -- they're usually made out of lead or mild steel. It's simply a matter of getting sufficient leverage. --Carnildo (talk) 23:42, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
The japanese did create very efficient methods of creating folded steel, yes. But they are ancient techniques and modern science has surpassed that. Aswell, the japanese katana is nothing but a hunk of steel unless you understand the basic method of using it. A novice will end up giving someone papercuts; while someone who actually trains, on the other hand, can sevre a man in half at the trunk in one clean swipe. The leathality of a sword is based on how you use it, not sharpness. If you want to see some astonashingly good cutting blades look up "Japanese Cutlery." As for cutting bullets, lead and copper can split on sheet metal at that velocity. Though the steel core penetrator on an FMJ round will take a good chunk out of any blade. Deflection is the most effective way of evading bullets. HitmanNumber86 (talk) 15:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Also, in Reaper Man, Death sharpens his scythe on silk, cobwebs and eventually light, to make it sharp enough to battle the new Death. Artistic licence is a fun thing...--WORM | MЯOW 09:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, great! Now he can take his moms langire a bunch of spiderwebs and a flashlight to his blade.HitmanNumber86 (talk) 15:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Paper Cuts song - Feral Child[edit]


I've heard that the Nirvana song Paper Cuts is based on the story of real life feral children who lived near Kurt Cobain in Seattle. Is this true? (talk) 14:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Unlikely. I live in Seattle, and I'm not aware of any feral children here. Some that are neglected, and some that are abused, perhaps, but none that are outright feral. - Jmabel | Talk 23:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Identify the shape/symbol/glyph[edit]

Hi. Does anyone recognise this?

--Rixxin 15:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't see the previous picture in the gallery. It looks like a sharpie doodle on lined paper. If it's your doodle, and you've seen it somwhere before, it would help if you said where. Other then that, your picture's about the doodliest doodly doodable doodle of doodliness I've ever seen. I do the same thing when I'm stoned and find a pencil. HitmanNumber86 (talk) 19:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

See labyrinth. —Tamfang (talk) 01:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It looks a little like a corporate logo. I don't know how you'd look it up though. I don't recognise it. Steewi (talk) 02:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
It reminds me of the logo of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization. --Richardrj talk email 07:46, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Travelling with a donkey[edit]

I plan to, when i am ready, travel with a donkey and cart around Europe and busk... I do have friends who will train the donkey for me and restore a small cart that will I will be able to live in andthat the donkey will be able to carry... My friends are professinals with donkeys so if they say I can do it I believe them but they can't possibly know everything, so I was wondering if what kind of problems other professionals think I may run into beside the obvious ones like food, shelter, weather, etc...? Thankyou (talk) 16:54, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we're just random volunteers on the internet. If you want a professional opinion you need to ask professionals. --Tango (talk) 17:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm, ok, random volunteer opinion will be appreciated also (talk) 17:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you'll have problems with animal quarantine laws regarding taking your loyal steed across borders? --Sean 17:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Did some research on google, but can't find anything in english about quarantine laws throughout europe (talk) 17:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Keep away from windmills, Sancho. You may need some documentation for your quadruped when crossing borders. Check with the departement of agriculture / trade / embassies / whoever is relevant for stuff you need. Circuses are travelling through Europe with loads of animals, so it must be possible.
Good luck! --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Depending on where you are in Europe and where you want to go, I would expect your biggest issue will be crossing the English Channel. I don't remember provision for farm animals on either the Channel Tunnel or cross-channel ferries. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
EC: As mentioned in Busking, it is illegal (or requiring a permit) in many places. In many cases, laws or by-laws aren't enforced very tightly, as evident by the prevalence of buskers in certain locations. Having a fairly large live animal with you may attract extra attention and provoke authorities into a corner of having to instruct you to leave, since it is sort of one step beyond what is normally accepted. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 18:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
These people tried working with a donkey (or was it a jackass?), but things didn't work out so well... Clarityfiend (talk) 22:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I would work with donkeys in an animal sanctuary first,they are not always easy to handle or understand.Frankly,I'd rather use a small pony.I would say your worse problem will be shoeing.There are no longer handy blacksmiths in every village and going without shoes will soon lame the donkey.. The next biggest problem may well be other road users.Being unused to horse/donkey drawn carts, they often get too close or honk their horns scareing the donkey.No animal can be 100% reliable in traffic.Food would be a third worry to me,you can't work a donkey on a few hours grazing ,you need hard food and that means carrying about 5 or six pounds of food per day.I doubt you can buy horse fodder at the local supermarkets.I would also find out the local language words for vetinary problems,not something you'll find in most phrasebooks which will be no use if you can't say "my donkey is dying of colic ,what do I do?".It sounds fun but it's a huge undertaking.I would doubt my ability to do it and I've worked with horses for 30 years and know how to drive one.hotclaws 05:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Taking all the above into account, why not consider starting with baby steps first such as touring southern Ireland - The Republic of Ireland - Eire - the 26 counties? There they have a long affinity with horses/donkeys/mules/asses and you can still see many Gypsy Caravans (both genuine and tourist) clip-clopping along the more rural roads. You can even hire the steed and the caravan and be sure of resting places and fodder stops along the way. And you will more than likely pick up a lot of useful advice and tips for future journeys along the way. Who knows, it might even serve to entirely discourage you from following in the wake of a horse's ass ever again - unless you choose to work for my old boss in the British Civil Service that is? (talk) 13:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
You may have seen it already, but I can recommend the book Spanish Steps by Tim Moore (writer), which describes his pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela with a pack donkey. OK, no cart, and it's a humorous, self-deprecating travel book narrative rather than a how-to, but there is a lot of good solid stuff in there about donkey-type problems encountered and solved, including finding a donkey, and dealing with their health and food on the road. If nothing else it will provide a taste of the realities you will face. Karenjc 21:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


Meaninig of the word Myonis

Was said to be a name used for the island of Cyprus, or a greek island rich in Copper, claimed to be "Cyprus"

Also a trademarked name belonging to a computer reseller who use the name on a range of laptop batteries and accessories —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrkingsley (talkcontribs) 17:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't show up in the Greek dictionary... --Masamage 17:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
This [6] (and three or four other sources) agrees that Myonis was an ancient term for Cyprus. The text implies that this name may have been used during the Bronze Age. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
PS: This would have been prior to classical Greek, ie Proto-Greek language or Mycenaean Greek language / Linear B. I guess that there are not that many dictionaries for this era. I found a few links showing the glyphs of the Linear B syllabary, but that does not help with a translation. Maybe some ancient philologist with relevant wisdom will totter by and find the answer. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


How much do missiles generally cost? Is it possible to buy one, with the warhead removed, of course? JIP | Talk 18:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Is that you Osama?
You can buy them for a few pounds (and you get to keep the warhead). Or did you have something more substantial in mind? Algebraist 18:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
More like something like this. I'm just trying to find out if it's possible, out of curiosity. JIP | Talk 18:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, the infobox in that article says "Unit cost: $569,000". You should probably aim your sights a little lower if you want to buy a missile on ebay! A more modest (deactivated) missile might be affordable and available (I don't know if they can be deactivated well enough to be allowed to sell them to civilians in a developed country - the black market in the middle-east probably has loads of the things, though). --Tango (talk) 18:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Importing one into Finland might raise an eyebrow or two. Darkspots (talk) 18:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
When it comes to cruise missiles you don't stand a fireballs chance in the ocean of getting one. Military ordinace is extreamly well tracked (even every AT4 is serialized). Keep in mind missile is still a vague term. I'm sure that you may be able to find an unguided missile used for meteorological purposes. With technology and knowledge general population has avalable to them nowadays you can build a missile to carry you into orbit (Though I'm not sure NORAD or NASA would be too happy). Your best bet is to go with somthing like this (I apologize for not being too computer savvy).HitmanNumber86 (talk) 19:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
It all depends on who you are and what you are buying. When the USAF switched from using regular daylight TV cameras to infra-red cameras in their Maverick missiles - they sold their remaining stock of thousands of missiles to pretty much any friendly country for about the cost of crating them up and shipping them - just hundreds of dollars per missile...complete with warheads, targetting computers, etc. On the other hand, there are modern air-to-ground missiles that are so expensive that the cost of them considerably exceeds the cost of the thing they are intended to destroy. However, everything about a typical missile is either secret or dangerous. Even the propellant is pretty nasty stuff - so if you WERE able to pick one up, it would almost certainly be a hollow tube with nothing left inside. The cost of safely removing the innards of a missile like that would certainly exceed the cost you'd be prepared to pay for it - it's cheaper for them to destroy the whole thing than to mess around stripping out the guts and selling the airframe to collectors and enthusiasts. So there probably aren't going to be a whole lot of them out there on the open market. That said, your best bet would be to try to find a Russian army surplus store someplace - it's amazing the stuff they sell in those places. SteveBaker (talk) 20:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Nobody is going to sell you a Tomahawk missile — those are export-controlled technology for good reason. -- (talk) 21:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Note, that if you really wanted to pursue this, what you'd search for is a "trainer" casing, which is a dummy casing created just for training, and never had classified or dangerous material inside it. When you see nuclear weapons bandied about at museums (like this one) they are usually "trainers". They say things like "Training only" on them. But even then I doubt they'd sell one to you. -- (talk) 21:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
For only $38000 there's the FIM-92 Stinger, even without a warhead a missile is a dangerous weapon. They'd be more likely to sell you one with an intact warhead and everything related to propulsion or guidance removed. The warhead could easily be replaced by something any explosive of the same weight and you've got a fully functional missile, there's even several warhead designs on wikipedia: Continuous-rod warhead. -- Mad031683 (talk) 00:15, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Go to Afghanistan, there should still be some Stingers hanging around from the Afghan-Soviet war, and I'd bet you could get a better price. You'd probably be sent to Guantanamo if you try to get back to the West, but hey - all in good fun. zafiroblue05 | Talk 10:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Bruce Simpson built a cruise missile for about $5000, but it annoyed the New Zealand government. --Sean 15:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


I am a 17 year old living in the UK. I am currently doing my A2 levels, and have 12 GCSEs. I want to know how I would go about becoming a watchmaker. I live in the Leicestershire area. Are there any apprenticeships availiable or would I be better off visiting some of the watchmakers and asking them?

Thanks (talk) 18:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The best person to tell you how to become a watchmaker would probably be a watchmaker. I recommend looking for the one with the most years under his belt and asking him. That's how I made my list of schools for gunsmithing, by asking a master gunsmith over thirty years in the trade. HitmanNumber86 (talk) 19:24, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You might want to start with the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers in the City of London, a City Livery Company. As their website points out, unlike most Livery Companies, most of their members are still working in the field of watch and clockmaking. Sam Blacketer (talk) 21:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
They have a section on Horological training on their website. Sam Blacketer (talk) 21:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


How do you find a picture to delete on Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by WarriorFIRESTAR (talkcontribs) 19:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

What picture specifically are you looking for? If you need help deleting a specific picture, we need a link to the file page of that picture. If you are looking in general for lists of pictures that are nominated for deletion, CAT:CSD contains links to subpages of pictures that are nominated for speedy deletion for various reasons associated with our speedy deletion criteria, and WP:IFD contains discussions of images which may need to be deleted, but don't meet speedy deletion criteria. However, the actual act of deleting an image is reserved for administrators at Wikipedia. I hope this answers your questions, if you could be more detailed, perhaps we could be more helpful? 19:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry! I was trying to ask if I could delete the fruit fly picture on the Allopatric speciation page. - WarriorFIRESTAR —Preceding unsigned comment added by WarriorFIRESTAR (talkcontribs) 20:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

If you are trying to remove the image from the article, you can simply find the link to the image name. This is different from deleting the image file from Wikipedia, which is an entirely different process. Just click the "edit this page" tab at the top of the article to edit the text. Then look for the image name you want to remove. It will be titled [[Image:yadayadayada.jpg|thumb|right]] or something like that. Just remove the text between and including the brackets. It would be a very good idea if you would leave a note on the article talk page (the discussion tab) explaining exactly why you thought it important to remove the picture. Thats a fairly drastic change to the article, and people are going to want to know your rationale. 20:15, 21 October 2008 (UTC)