User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 7

Iranian peoples

My comment? SouthernComfort 08:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I reported the IP that was vandalizing the page and violated the 3RR, and it got blocked for 12 hours.if it keeps doing this after that,i guess i will ask protection.Thanks!i will have it in mind --Hectorian 01:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Image side by side

ugg, khoi, can you please show me how to put 2 images side by side in this page: List of Assyrian settlements. I am trying to put the more upclose village map in the middle, between the the village names and the province map, but can't seem to do so. And also, what are we going to do about the Iranian extremist? Chaldean 20:49, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks alot for fixing the pic and the tip about reporting :) Chaldean 03:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thanks again. This wikipedia is starting to really bother me now. I wish every page had a mod to keep track of properganda and lies being published. Chaldean 09:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem, just trying to give back the help I got from you :) Chaldean 03:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yea your right. I just wanted a page where we could have statistical records of Assyrian population througouth the world, not just outside of the Middle East. But you can move it back if you want too, and maybe create a small section saying Middle East population, or something to that extend. Chaldean 05:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey there bro. Thanks for those rvs. I was wondering if you could help me with this table I am trying to create here: [[1]]. Can you make it...prettier? I dont think I know what I'm doing with the tables Chaldean 02:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Chaldean 02:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

	My RfA
	Thank you for supporting/opposing/commenting on my request of adminship, sadly the result was 54/20/7 an thus only 73% support votes, resulting in that the nomination failed. As many of you commenting that I have to few main-space edits, I'll try to better my self on that part. If you have any ideas on what kind of articles I could edit, pleas send me a line. :)	→AzaToth 09:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanking

I really don't know what is the standard practice. For my first RfA I have thanked all the people who voted Support and those voted Neutral or Oppose who had shown valid reasons (as I see it). For the second RfA, I simplified the task and only thanked people who voted Support. The good thing about the thanking is that I now have a lot of talk pages of important people on my watchlist :). Sometimes the discussions there are interesting abakharev 03:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Lodhi Tribe

Please check my user talk

Intentionally blank page

How is the sandbox fun? How will using that give myself a laugh? I need to make myself laugh often here. If I can't, what other wikis do you recommend, that I can laugh often with? --129.130.38.235 06:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

do you really think you can get away with this vandalism?

Think again!

Your RFA

Good luck next time; let me know and I'll be sure to check-in. FYI, it was this edit that most impressed me: [2] – restoring the Burning of Smyrna. --Moby 09:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Count me in for your next RfA and never give up the good fight. Green Giant 09:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Likewise...

I also have no doubt that the spamming was from Metb82. It certainly seems his style and I think he wants to turn wikipedia into a propaganda tool and is trying to eliminate anything that is anti-Turkish no matter how accurate it is. I've encountered problems with him before.

Anyhow, good luck next time you run for admin. Englishrose 09:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

3RR violation at Iranian peoples

Hi, you violated the three-revert rule on Iranian peoples. I have disabled your editing permissions for 12 hours. Please read our guide on dispute resolution during the time you are unable to contribute to Wikipedia. Feel free to return after your block expires, but take your differences to the talk page and please refrain from edit warring. Cheers, —Ruud 13:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Alhazen

Hi Khoikhoi

Are you sure the version of the Alhazen article that you reverted to is NPOV? I searched the phrase Buwayhid Persia in Google to see if it is of popular use, and as the search results prove, it is not (ignore the Wiki mirror sites). The Persian Buwayhid dynasty may have conquered Baghdad, but the question is did they do it under the banner of Persia expansionism? Also, they never removed the Abbasid Caliph as according to Encarta: "In 945 the Buwayhids, an Iranian Shia dynasty, conquered Baghdad. However, they allowed the Abbasid caliph to remain in office as a symbol of continuity and legitimacy." And was the region of Iran considered part of Arabia because it was ruled by dynasties of Arabs? As a suggestion, these are the things you should think about before declaring one version as NPOV. Thanks. --Inahet 17:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you have a nice vacation, it looks like I need one too as I'm so obsessed with Wikipedia. It's not a good thing when editing Wikipedia is the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night. Yes, I am weird. Take care. --Inahet 09:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Team Russ

Hello, could you please reconsider your vote for the Team Russ article to be deleted. The Team is quickly developing and has a fixture with a university team. I would also like to know your definition of a 'notable dodgeball team'. Thank you for your time. Wright123 20:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks and enjoy

Thanks for the message :) - and enjoy your wikibreak, you definitely deserve it. Hopefully we'll see you on again soon. Green Giant 02:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 19:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Your RFA on the 26th

Hi. I just found out from the RFA talk page that you had an aborted RFA — I'm sorry I missed it while I was out. Don't let it get you down; as was said above, count me in regarding your next RFA. Thanks. Saravask 21:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject

Greetings! If interested, please join WikiProject Tibetan Buddhism. I hope that it will assist us in ensuring articles are of high quality. Sylvain1972 17:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Just wanted to say thanks again for keeping me updated on current POV pushing.--Moosh88 03:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The Khojaly article is still one sided and needs more work done. The azeri users keep removing the tag I and Eupator place, it's becoming very annoying having to deal with them about every little thing. Please take a look at the talk page, at baku87's remark to another user. Also, maybe you could share your views on the talk page, being a neutral editor, both sides would be more willing to accept your edits.--Moosh88 04:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Khojaly_massacre

Attaching tag without giving any substantiation is nothing but vandalism. I asked you many times to explain on the talk page what exactly is disputed, so far you failed to do that. Until you do that, I have a right to remove the tag. Grandmaster 04:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

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Hi there

Sorry, I was on phone. Can you please come back on. --ManiF 05:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

--ManiF 18:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Can I speak to you for a sec? --ManiF 04:14, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Problems with editors

You left a note on my talk page as to which editors on WikiProject Turkey I had a problem with, which led to my removing myself from the project. I am sure you will understand if I don't want to name names, although I do want to say that it is by no means everyone involved in the project. The specific impetus that made me withdraw was some of the comments that I read here. As I am sure you have already guessed, the main issue I had was with POV-related issues. —Saposcat 07:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Erased by xebat

How can user Xebat erase my entry in the talk page on kurdish people they can at best answer it even if they feel its illogical?

I just filled my opinion on the last entry its just a vote in view of all arguments so far

I can also erase his entry cant I?--130.233.130.42 12:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Category:Kurdistan

Hi, I was wondering if you would care to comment on the categorization of articles about regions currently and historically populated by Kurds. See my post at Talk:Batman, Turkey#Kurdish Category. Thanks, --Moby 12:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

moved to: Category talk:Kurdistan (Which articles should have the tag 'Category:Kurdistan') --Moby 14:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

K sure

All I can say for certain is that the 2000 number in the south seems on the button. Have no idea about the rest. Its quite diffcult to come up with these numbers because all we have are a bunch of nationalistic(both turkish and greek) sites to rely on. Ill see what I can come up with--KSK 13:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Australian:)--KSK 00:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, you got mail. --Latinus 15:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah,i know.should i wait till she'll be blocked? --Hectorian 03:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Although I have to say you're completely wrong Xebat (Iranian is not an "uncommon word"), do you agree with the solution? --Khoikhoi 16:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

How you got this info Khoikhoi?! Iranians honestly and honestly is not a common word. Xebat Talk + 16:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, please check your e-mail. --Latinus 21:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

And you request adminship with that POV...

Even you don't know why you reverted.Just to be trouble...Inanna 23:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

NO DOUBT! or your masonry may cut your salary...Inanna 23:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Jews don't feel shame...you suppose yourself you are really a jew.What a pity. Inanna 23:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

As Shakespeare said "Jews are very proffesional at lying".Do you want more? By the way, the jew only whose mother is jewish is not at a jewish, actually.They are only victims...Inanna 00:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Why don't u just report her for personal attack? --Hectorian 00:19, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

hehe...ok then!have fun!:) --Hectorian 00:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Ya, ya, ya..."whose mother is jewish then he/she is jewish".So why not the father side? Let me tell you darling(i'm sure you know); Men are worthy and women have same status with animals in judaism."The Jew" is a race not only a religion.They care to keep their men's racial but they sell their women to wealthy chrisitan men and then "whose mother is jewish then he/she is jewish".Here the new victims of jews such as you(to use at their works)...

The Nature is more welcomed against men than women.The Male's sperm is the seed and it's like sign at son.Mother is only a field.That's cause mongols had raped thousands of Turkish women at Central Asia...Inanna 00:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you want any example for your irony? Inanna 00:35, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Jews are a race.Then why judaism hasn't spread such as christinaty or islam.Because hebrews believed that it was speacial to them.However jews try to show they are just a diffrent religious group at society.Jew is the jew.If it was like you said, they would only work for their own nation.I didn't see the movie because greeks were slaugtering us at 1964 in Cyprus.Those diffrent religion marriages are still taboo but the main issue is keeping the racial at jews.Unfortunatley some Turks in eastern anatolia has mixed with arabs and kurds because of islam brotherhood(!!!).

I know, you don't celebrate the shabat day as well.That's nonsense also.Judaism is the judaism.What're those sectarians...

What you said: "Yep, he's right. You really gotta watch out for us Jews, you don't know what kind of sly trick we'll come up with next."

Inanna 01:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry then.I hadn't understood it...Inanna 18:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Windows Vespa

• Just a head's up to let you know that your vote was vandalized by an anon. I've reverted it to what I think is the right version. --DMG413 00:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Kalendar Koffee House

Deleting Kalendar from the coffee house category is wrong. To claim that Kalendar is advertising is also incorrect. The Kalendar article lists date of opening and location with interior photo. The so called "vanity" aspects have been removed from the article. Kalendar may not be as "noteable" as the larger chains, but that should not preclude it from listing in the coffee house category. To call this article spam would be to call all listings in this category spam. The previous AFD article was edited down to be considered for inclusion - tis all. No harm intended.

This on the other hand is the opening paragraphs of the Starbucks listing. I imagine that all listings in this category are similar to this.

Starbucks NASDAQ: SBUX (SEHK: 4337), is a large multinational chain of coffee shops, often serving pastries, popular in the US especially among students and young urban professionals. The corporate headquarters are in Seattle, Washington. The company was in part named after Starbuck, a character in Moby-Dick, and its insignia is a stylized cartoon Siren.

According to the company's fact sheet, as of February 2006, Starbucks had 6,216 company-operated outlets worldwide: 5,028 of them in the United States and 1,188 in other countries and U.S. territories. In addition, the company has 4,585 joint-venture and licensed outlets, 2,633 of them in the United States and 1,952 in other countries and U.S. territories.

EllisCHanna 04:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Kalendar Koffee House

By definition most of the listings in the coffee house category are "non-notable". In fact the majority of the listings are not known outside the constituency where they are established. Being "non-notable" has always been a difficult area for editors. In this instance for example, the band Pursuit of Happiness wrote a song and video about Kalendar (1996 Kalendar/Gretzky Rocks/In Praise Of (T.W.A.-The World's Address). This by definition makes Kalendar a noteable entity by Wikipedia standards see Wikipedia:Notability "A topic has notability if it is known outside of a narrow interest group or constituency, or should be because of its particular importance or impact". EllisCHanna 04:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Kalendar Koffee House

Thank you Khoikhoi. Point well made. Not being a chain is a very good RFD and this should have been the only point voted on. Claims of being "non-noteable", or "advertising" or my favorite "vanspamvertisment" are invalid. I will respectfully remove the Kalendar listing from the coffee house category until we have a number of locations and qualify for inclusion.EllisCHanna 05:28, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Pashtuns

Thanks for your message. He needs to back up that claim with a source - are there sources in that article for Pashtuns being of Iranian "stock"? SouthernComfort 07:42, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

See also Britannica entry [3] - origins are "unclear" but "more likely that they arose from an intermingling of ancient Aryans from the north or west with subsequent invaders." SouthernComfort 07:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

The "eastern Iranian stock" phrase is mentioned on this Pashtun site [4] but no source is mentioned. Maybe someone used this page for their edits? SouthernComfort 07:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

The CIA country study for Afghanistan [5] has some interesting information, but nothing clear about their ethnicity. I think this requires a visit to the library - this is the major problem with ethnic articles - a lot of this data, particularly for peoples of that region, is still not widely distributed on the Web. Like the Kurdish article, for instance, and the term "Iranian peoples" - a lot of this can be easily disambiguated through traditional methods of research - which involves time and patience, not something a lot of people here have tolerance for, as we both know. ;) SouthernComfort 07:51, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources listed on Pashtuns - if Tombseye contributed to that article and used those sources, then there is no valid deletion of that data. If Tombseye can disambiguate the source (if he added it), that would be great. About Aucaman, you mean Khomeini? I've already explained why those edits are improper and I've provided a new source to clarify that those views on ritual purity are not specific to Khomeini, but to all Shi'a marjas, but he ignores them. Note the section title: "Views on non-Muslims" - when did feces, dogs, sperm, etc become "non-Muslims"? SouthernComfort 07:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Tajiks and Iranian peoples

Check this out from the CIA country study [6]. Interesting, yes? SouthernComfort 08:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Mail. SouthernComfort 08:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

You will not delete again what i have written! Inanna 23:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't delete any comments(maybe by mistake) Inanna 23:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Adieu

, and thanx for your support. I might try to expand the Spanakopita article in the future.--Avmatso 23:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

sorry

Whoops, wrong user! I'm terribly sorry. ;) There was a fascist pig that changed cyprus article. My mistake --www.doc 02:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha, serves her right! ;) I think that they shouldn't allow discriminating point of views, not even in the user pages about a recognized republic, like the Republic of Cyprus. It is still viewed by other users :\ But, lamers will always be lamers.. can't do anything about that instead of start cutting fingers lol.

Hey um.. where do you think "yenitsaroi"(i don't know how they say this, i know in greek it's γενίτσαροι) belong? (ottomans were stealing babies of greek origin to make a strong ruthless small yet powerful addition to their army) I mean where should they be added? --www.doc 03:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Found their turkish name: yeni çeri, nut.. Janitchar in english? :\--www.doc 03:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hm, janissary ! Never mind, it's already written heh.--www.doc 03:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Adana

That's pretty weird. I wasn't able to make much sense out of his comments. If he's complaining about lack of sources (rather than neutrality) I think a source tag might set him at ease. I mean, that's what he's concerning about, right? Have you been observing the absurdities at Khomeini? Man ... I don't even know where to begin with that. SouthernComfort 03:50, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

You know, I don't even care if people want to push a certain POV, as long as they are honest about it and do not ignore other peoples' comments (as has been done there) or make nonsensical accusations that I am deleting relevant information when I have made my case with sources, which others also agree with. That is ridiculous. BTW, what do you think of Fadix's edits on Adana massacre and comments on Talk:Adana massacre? SouthernComfort 03:57, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem. They never let up though, I'll tell you that much. As for Fadix, I don't understand his reasoning either, but I figure if the Turkish editors don't mind (or care), then why bother? SouthernComfort 04:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Responded. SouthernComfort 05:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome??

I was already welcomed to wikipedia. I have had this account for 1 year.

(Micoolio101 07:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Pashtun

Greetings,

Unfortunately, I'm not very knowledgeable on Pashtuni topics. Like everyone else, I'd have to go and dig out sources and see what they say.

As for the Fars page, someone moved the page without moving the links properly. An admin or someone knowledgable has to fix this.--Zereshk 07:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The links User:Ewlyahoocom is talking abouyt. I think he means some incoming links from other pages.--Zereshk 07:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

heh, me too.--Zereshk 07:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

On another note, if you would take a couple of minutes and deposit some evidence you feel youve seen that is worthy for an argument against Aucaman here. If no evidence is posted, the ArbCom wont get anywhere. And we only have 1 or 2 days before the admins close the hearings for a final decision. Thanx.--Zereshk 08:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your work.--Zereshk 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Perfecto. Gracias.--Zereshk 08:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

hello

thank you for the advice. all the best, my friend.

-- Boris Malagurski ₪ 09:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Turks

As we talked before and as the article suggests as well, Turks of Turkey bear ethnic diversity. If it was about the Turkic people then it should consist of all Turkic people in the world. But no, it is about Turkish people, citizens of Turkey therefore in my opinion it should consist of all of them. I've seen French people article, it says:

"The French people (French: les Français, which etymologically derives from the word Franks, a Germanic tribe which overan Gaul at the end of the Roman empire) are the sovereign people of France, composed of all French citizens, regardless of ethnic origins or religious opinions."

I've seen Spanish people article and the number consists of whole population of Spain, regardless of their Basque or Catalan origin. Same in the Greeks article. Why is it on Turkish people article this distinction is trying to be made? We don't even know the exact number of Kurds in Turkey or how many of those ethnically Kurd actually consider themselves Kurd, how can you make informative articles based on unofficial assumptions? We should rewrite the article in this manner, regardless of their ethnic origins or religious opinions every citizen of Turkey is considered a Turk.--Kagan the Barbarian 11:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The result of this is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/French people was keep therefore you are not making any point. We can also say there are more than 0 Algerians in France, right? Citizen of Turkey is a Turk, it is as simple as that. I am asking the article to be about citizens of Turkey, not the ethnic group. There are millions of Albanians and Bosniaks in this country, why should we make an exception for Kurds? You don't even know how many people in Turkey consider themselves Kurds. Excuse my terminology but this is bullshit information.--Kagan the Barbarian 18:06, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Khoi, don't play with words, the result was keep whether with consensus or not. And an article about ethnic Turks? Excuse me but how do you define an ethnic Turk? Shouldn't it then consist of other Turkic people of the world? If it is only about Turkey then isn't every citizen of Turkey a Turk? You are only extracting the so-called number of Kurds from the Turkish population and declare it to be number of Turkish people in Turkey? As we say in Turkish, if you spit upside there is the moustache, if you spit downwards there is the beard. I think we need a nuke to bring back order to these articles, they are too messed up, I can't even care anymore. Anyway, kolay gelsin.--Kagan the Barbarian 18:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Bormalagurski

Suggesting the possibility that one account is the sock-puppet of another is not a personal attack. This sort of hypersensitivity is blocking Wikipedia up with absurd accusations and counter-accusations. I notice also that those who are thus hypersensitive tend to be the more uncivil editors, as with Bormalagursk. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

A belated note

Hi there Khoikhoi- a belated note of apology for missing out on your recent RFA, which I did not become aware of until it was all over. I would have gladly supported it, as I would any future nomination. Never mind, and keep up the great work you are doing around here - see you around! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 01:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome, my friend. I have been spending a little time in going through a bunch of Spanish geography-related articles, mainly as a not-too-taxing diversion and for a change of pace- I lived there for about a year and was recently reminded of my time there- when looking up a few of the places there seemed to be little consistency and variable content in these articles, and so the area seemed ripe for some revision and reorganising. Saludos, --cjllw | TALK 02:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I have thought about it, and thanks, but have been reasonably content to apply myself to editing. Ask me again in a couple of weeks, at the moment my availability is a little too sporadic to concentrate on a nomination. Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 03:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for the kind welcome. LionKing 03/04/06

Adana

Thanks for the note, I have added a few more sources. I didn't realize there could be much dispute about this but some people still think the sun goes round the earth (doesn't it?) and that the check really is in the mail. :-) I have run across you a few times here as I am trying to populate the categories from Smith's Classical Geography (see my subpage re:same) and put info from the Catholic or Jewish encyclopedias (if there were a public domain Muslim one, I'd add from that too) and from some of the more extensive articles on some of these subjects that can be found in the Catalan or French WP (I can read both no problem) and from the Greek WP (more difficult for me to read -- I need a dictionary for every 3rd word or so). Next time you are nominated for RfA, let me know, I'd support you. Maybe someone someday would nominate me, but I spend too much time on CfD's and AfD's and find myself in a minority of one too often. Carlossuarez46 20:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

SL

Sedat Laciner is on Wikipedia contributing under two different usernames, please keep and eye on him, as he has already begun his POV pushing campaign. His user name is Slaciner, I don't know the other name he uses. Please contact me if you have any questions or something important comes up, thanks!--Moosh88 23:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Khoikhoi! Sedat Laciner runs the "Journal of Turkish Weekly." It is a biased journal and I fear that he will spread the lies of that publication here.--Moosh88 23:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome!

Hi Khoikhoi,

Thanks very much for the welcome -- it is much appreciated. Your contributions are considerable. Twalls 23:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I just saw that i have made more than 1000 edits:)) --Hectorian 01:01, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks:)To be honest with u, i first went to your userpage, clicked the link and then typed my name:p(btw,in a couple of years i may have 15,000 edits as well...) --Hectorian 01:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I know, but i am learning quick! i just learnt something new:p --Hectorian 01:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks:) --Hectorian 01:51, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Emily Zilch

We should ask Emily about this.

I personally never asked Emily about these edits, but it looks like shes using the professional syntax used by linguists and language historians. i.o.w they are technically accurate. For example the Al-fehrest should indeed be transliterated "al-fihrist" as she has corrected.

Obviously however, the transliterations are not what the populace is used to. But I wasnt too much picky on it because edits like these dont last very long anyway, because people dont like seeing those weird characters, even if they are correct. For example, she edited the entire Shiraz article that way. But as you can see now, almost nothing of it remains.

I think, it wont hurt to let her do those edits. It's fine with me, as far as my opinion goes.--Zereshk 00:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

List of Arab scientists and scholars

Dear Khoikhoi, most of the scientists and scholars I listed in List of Arab scientists and scholars are Arabs. And if not, then they are most probably arabs. And if not, then they are arab by culture. I have already added a note on the main article that says: By "Arab", it should not be understood as a strictly ethnically term, but rather a cultural term..

May I also point out that half of the scientists and scholars in List of Iranian scientists and scholars are actually Arab or People with disputed ethnicity. For example Geber, Alhazen, Al-Khwarizmi and Al-karkhi. [User:Jidan|Jidan]] 06:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

hey Khoikhoi, looking through the editings of ManiF, I am sure he won't accept any comprmise. It would be great if we had more neutral observers to resolve this issue. Jidan 07:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I have already contacted the neutral users you told me. Jidan 14:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Question

A new member of Wikipedia, User:AkaAtour whos IP address is 75.4.183.229, continues to vandalize articles and harass members. Who is the person I should go to and notify of this problem? Thanks for your time --A2raya07 20:24, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the information you gave me, it's alot of help --A2raya07 20:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Assyrian diaspora

Hi! i saw that u re-added Makronisos in the section about Greece. this way the readers will believe that there is an assyrian community in the island. i would really have no problem if there was (at least it would be better for the island to have inhabitants, instead of been a useless rock in the Aegean!), but the island is totally uninhabitant, as its respective article also says. --Hectorian 00:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

hehe...Saronikos is the name of the gulf south of Athens:).i will remove it.btw,check your mail. --Hectorian 01:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Muslim scientists

I thought it was obvious and no one had opposed while the 'opposition' knew about it so I thought it was fair. --Kash 10:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He\She knows about the situation, I am not sure why you are telling me to do something?! I can not force someone to do something I don't agree with! --Kash 18:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Geographic names

Hi Khoikhoi. I want to discuss with you the situation with naming issues in Nakhichevan article. I’m still not sure what the rules are and how strictly they are observed. As you explained to me, all the historical names should be included, but what to do in cases, when there are too many of such names? Do we need to mention them all or just the most relevant ones? Can I also include the Azeri names in the articles about Armenian cities or the rule is applied to Azeri and Turkish cities only? Golbez suggested I start an RFC, because this issue is not so clear. I’m not so much experienced in this procedure, so I would appreciate any assistance from your side. I think it is important to clarify this issue to prevent new edit wars in the future. Grandmaster 11:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Soggy biscuit

Hallo- I noticed that you posted a 'Delete' vote on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Soggy biscuit (2). I have recently posted some new material that I feel satisfies the requirement for WP:N and WP:V- hopefully you may feel the same. In any event, best wishes and apologies for the intrusion. Badgerpatrol 20:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Greetings, been a while!

Hey Khoikhoi, sorry for the really really late reply. I've been busy with 2 jobs and things have been hectic. I got some downtime and saw your posting. I see you have been keeping up things and making wikipedia better. The barnstars sure have multiplied since I was last here. My email address is tombseye(at)hotmail.com for whatever it was you wanted to send to me. Later. Tombseye 20:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey dude, good to hear from ya. Well, as I recall I added that on the Turkish people page after some discussion we had in the discussion forum as some sort of compromise edit. Basically, I would just go with Greeks since we don't really know for sure if they were mostly Hellenized Anatolians or just Greeks who multiplied or both. It's just that people object to the whole Greeks or even Greek-speakers were a majority in Turkey/Asia Minor thing and were looking for any scant info. that could discredit that view. after a while it got really tiring ya know? At this point, it makes more sense to just say Greeks. Ha, we'll see how long that lasts though. Tombseye 03:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Take the fake information off the flag in Kurdistan

The Kurdish flag is not a crime to fly in Iran. Remove Iran. The verifications are phoney too. Does anybody here check the Bull that is passed as fact or verification??? The sources are blank pages or other such garbage that does not talk about either Kurds or a Kurdish flag. 69.196.139.250 00:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Right to Vanish

Why are you denying me my right to vanish? This is a documented process. m:Right to vanish. Please read it. Please look at the entries I removed and the status of the account involved. And then please undo your revert. Thank you. 66.143.172.241 04:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Question

Hi Cool Cat, I noticed the Architecture section of the Culture of Turkey article was copied from here. I think other parts of the article were copied from there as well. Is text from official Turkish government websites in the Public Domain? If not, it looks like these paragraphs will have to be re-written or deleted. I'm not sure who added the text, but I think I've seen similar copyvios in related articles. --Khoikhoi 01:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I am no expert in copyrights but I believe anyone can use anything on a Turkish Gov website as such pages are generaly considered "National Heritage" unless otherwise stated. I also do not believe there is a single case of Turkish Gov sueing anyone for using their stuff. Media for instance ocasionaly uses Turkish gov data while crediting Turkish gov (perhaps in a sense of reporting rather than satisfying some copyright requirement).

However, I am not certain if I can prove such a statement as I am no expert in copyrights.

I'll look for this though.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 09:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, for this case it is explicitly stated at [7] that: All rights reserved. The copyright of this publication belongs to the Turkish News Agency. The texts and photographs cannot be quoted or used without permission.

Hence you are right it needs to be rewriten/deleted. I nominate you for the job. :)

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 09:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Gilles de Rais

An anon repeatedly keeps deleting sourced quotations from the article without leaving comments on talk, and even when I have informed this person of WP:V and WP:NPOV. Any suggestions? SouthernComfort 09:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article

Hello! Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue – you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! --Aldux 15:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Ldingley

Warned. If they persist, just let me know. --InShaneee 18:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Disambig links

Alright - that one slipped my attention. I'll go over the difs and look for other mistakes although I'm fairly certain that they're predominantly correctly disambigued. Thanks for your notice :) Gardar Rurak 19:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Iranian issues

Well, the thing is that most people are probably PART Aryan, as in the Iranian branch and not the Indo-Aryan group that split off and went further east, and the languages are obviously their main legacy. They also, no doubt, are descended from the original inhabitants of the region such as the Elamites as well. In addition, invaders have probably impacted some groups. I read an interesting article that I can't find that made the claim that western Persians often genetically link to Semitic Iraqis while eastern Persians show affinities with Afghans etc. Overall the variations aren't as great as people believe though. There's just so much dissension over this issue at this point though and there's no easy answer. I would say that the Iranian issue should be mostly about the language and SOME genetic similarities that are analogous to the Germanic peoples as the English are more German along the eastern coast, while the inland English often have little Germanic ancestry. I'll add it to my preferences, no prob. Talk to ya later. Tombseye 23:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with using Aryan in the Persian peoples article. The branch of Aryans we're talking about is the Iranian one, if one wants to be exact, since there are no Indo-Aryan languages spoken on the Iranian plateau. It's definitely not anti-Semitic! Just because the Nazis started making up things doesn't mean that everything they touched is anti-Semitic. Geez, these people... Looks like a problem at the Pashtun page now. Sheesh. Tombseye 17:50, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Lol, that's funny. What did she do that finally ticked them off? Good idea about getting the Pashtun page protected too. That might be needed if these people keep ignoring what every encyclopedia explains. The edit's okay I guess. Basically, whether it's a Mongol type or not is irrelevant I suppose, but we certainly don't mean Asiatic as a continent. Either way it's no big deal I'd say. Wow, lots of changes though since I've been gone. Tombseye 18:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey if you get a chance, can help out on the Afghanistan page? It is a good article and could use some work to make it a featured article. I started a discussion on it first before completely transforming the page. We'll see how that goes. Tombseye 19:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey dude. Go ahead and make the changes now to references section. Whatever I add we can deal with later. Totally with you on what it should look like. Nearly all of the sections are going to have to be shaved down so as to be more informative and yet succinct. Tombseye 16:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I personally think it's hard to say how closely linked modern peoples are to ancient peoples as it varies. The Aryans, according to the US Library of Congress article on the Persians[8] states that:

Small groups of nomadic, horse-riding peoples speaking Indo-European languages began moving into the Iranian cultural area from Central Asia near the end of the second millennium B.C. Population pressures, overgrazing in their home area, and hostile neighbors may have prompted these migrations. Some of the groups settled in eastern Iran, but others, those who were to leave significant historical records, pushed farther west toward the Zagros Mountains.

Three major groups are identifiable--the Scythians, the Medes (the Amadai or Mada), and the Persians (also known as the Parsua or Parsa). The Scythians established themselves in the northern Zagros Mountains and clung to a seminomadic existence in which raiding was the chief form of economic enterprise. The Medes settled over a huge area, reaching as far as modern Tabriz in the north and Esfahan in the south. They had their capital at Ecbatana (present-day Hamadan) and annually paid tribute to the Assyrians. The Persians were established in three areas: to the south of Lake Urmia (the tradional name, also cited as Lake Orumiyeh, to which it has reverted after being called Lake Rezaiyeh under the Pahlavis), on the northern border of the kingdom of the Elamites; and in the environs of modern Shiraz, which would be their eventual settling place and to which they would give the name Parsa (what is roughly present-day Fars Province).

During the seventh century B.C., the Persians were led by Hakamanish (Achaemenes, in Greek), ancestor of the Achaemenid dynasty. A descendant, Cyrus II (also known as Cyrus the Great or Cyrus the Elder), led the combined forces of the Medes and the Persians to establish the most extensive empire known in the ancient world.

As for the Turkish people view, well, according to Insight Guides: Turkey, there are some people who are of partial African descent, just not too many as Turkey had a slave trade that brought sub-Saharan peoples to Turkey. They aren't a large group, but according to the book they are visible. I personally saw maybe two people who looked part black and who were Turkish when I was in Istanbul. At least I heard one of them speaking Turkish. Either way though apparently there are some and I doubt there was zero contribution since they did have slaves and slave soldiers etc. from Sudan. Tombseye 17:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright, cool deal dude. Let's see how things go with the Iranian peoples page since its locked. Definitely, fixing the references section would help the Afghanistan page tremendously. The article's still way too long and veers off point too many times. Tombseye 17:45, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, what's Zanyar talking about? Yeah, probably not many outside of Istanbul. Also, on the Persian people page, apparently there are some people who actually believe that the Persians of today are exclusively of Aryan ancestry, which is frankly more than a stretch. Tombseye 00:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, their languages are distinct, but no one in Iran is exclusively not related to each other. These people have intermingled to no end for centuries so any notions of purity are a falacy including claims of exclusive 'Aryan' ancestry which also nonsense. Yeah the problem with Aucaman's edit is that he is using a source that is nearly a century old! I mean geezus. The terminology is out of date as well. Prof. Frye at Harvard is a much more up to date expert on Iranian peoples as are various others such as the faculty at UCLA which includes many Persians. As for the Jewish origins of the Pashtuns, it's doubtful. These guys are going with wishful fantasy just like all the other ethnic group editors. Everyone wants to claim this and that without evidence or just conjectural or circumstantial info. The only Pashtuns who have Jewish ancestry are now in Israel and they were only part Jewish themselves. what's interesting is that the claims of Jewish ancestry by the Pashtuns turn up after their conversion to Islam. If they are indeed descendents of Hebrews then why is there no ancient writings and even cultural remnants or a much larger Jewish population. Man, this stuff is really tiresome. So many not interested in academic and archaeological evidence, but instead want to push what they believe in their 'gut' or whatever. Tombseye 00:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Mersin

In antiquity Mersin was Zephyrion, which Hadrian one of the most immodest of souls renamed after himself (Hadrianopolis). The site was mostly confined to the port + hilltop (acropolis) which now bears the Turkish name Yümüktepe. I'll add a little there when I get time. Fascinating city. Carlossuarez46 00:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thankyou for your suggestions. Siddiqui 01:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijan vs Azarbaijan

Ahhh. This one is political. Both are legit.

As you know, there is a growing separatist movement supported by the Republic of Azerbaijan (and indirectly backed by Turkey) to encourage Iranian Azerbaijan to secede from Iran.

But Iranian Azaris disagree. They beleive that Iranian Azerbaijan is in fact the mainland (has almost 3 times as population), and that the Republic of Azerbaijan must "rejoin" Iran (and the motherland of Azerbaijan), hence reversing the Gulistan Treaty and Turkemanchay Treaty, which was enforced by Imperial Russia, and caused the split.

Iranian Azeris have thus used the term "Azarbaijan" to refer to this position, while "Azerbaijan" is the term used for the outside of Iranian group.

But there is also the fact that in Iran, Azeri is pronounced "Azari" (even by Azeris themselves), hence the source of the etymology. And since it is written with a "dh" in the Arabic/Iranian alphabet, that is why Encyclopedia Iranica (correctly) uses the word "Adhari" (or "Adari"), as discussed in this article.

So both are correct. It depends on who you ask (an Iranian Azari, or a ex-Soviet Azeri). Not to mention that the terms are also often carelessly used interchangeably as well, sometimes by even myself.

Hope that helps.--Zereshk 01:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, what he said. ;) SouthernComfort 05:22, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Your statements are not factually accurate. First, Azerbaijan Republic does not officially support this movement, some political organizations from opposition do. These are different things. As for Iranian Azeris disagreeing, this is also untrue. You yourself said that there’s a growing movement in Iran, but then you say that all Iranian Azeris disagree with it. How can it grow then? You can see even from talk pages here that not all Iranian Azeris think the same. In my understanding the main problem is probably the official policy of denying the existence of Azeri people and Azeri culture in Iran, which leads to increase of the number of people, who want the region to secede. In my understanding, a cultural autonomy could ease the tension, because that’s what people actually want, the right to speak their language and develop their culture. And no matter what they call it in Iran, the internationally accepted name is Azerbaijan. Grandmaster 08:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

You said: "Azerbaijan Republic does not officially support this movement, some political organizations from opposition do". Youre correct about that. But you also said: "...the right to speak their language and develop their culture." That is incorrect. They do freely speak their language, and schools can teach Azari, as long as it is in addition to Persian. Another error of yours (and everyone else I gather) is the impression that Iran is enforcing Persian nationalism on its minorities. That is not the case: Iran's government has a policy of "pan-Islamism" which excludes ethnicities altogether from the equation. Persian language is merely used as the lingua franca to keep the Republic functioning. If you take a closer look, youll see that the Iranian government cares little if at all about the protection of its pre-Islamic "Persian" past. Among many manyt other examples, if they did care, they wouldnt be building dam projects, submerging precious Persian historical sites.[9]. That being said, Iran needs to be more open and caring to its minorities, no doubt.--Zereshk 01:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Unfortunately I have no time to discuss and elaborate the matter for you but I friendly ask you to revert you edits on those pages since unfortunately all of them are wrong. I don't know really how you suddenly decided to do that??

See here: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html#People

Zanyar 18:53, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Rollback links

My monobook is modified to put the links on user contribs pages, admin rollback includes it by default. No major major difference, just the speed at which it happens -- Tawker 02:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Yep, feel free to copy paste from mine, it has all of the goodies :) -- Tawker 02:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Just when I thought it was starting to get to me, its nice to know that people appreciate your work! You've put a smile on my face. :) - FrancisTyers 02:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Battleground?

Well, I didn't mean specifically you when I was talking about a battleground. It takes two sides to wage a war, you know. By the way, I'm very sorry that you've become a target of negative campaigning, and I hope it won't happen again should you try another RfA. Conscious 04:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Mazandarani People

According to CIA World Factbook, Mazandaranis are not ethnic Persians, but a distinct ethnic group [10]. So I suggest to have a page on Mazanadarani People as well.Heja Helweda 04:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

POV. SouthernComfort 12:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

WP:AN/I

Sorry, just needed to say that this edit summary rocked me like a hurricane. :) --InShaneee 20:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Dont revert without discussing

You keep reverting article Kosovo. As it is a highly disputable and sensitive topic, please don't do so without discussing changes.I hope you understand. Thank you.Ilir pz 23:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding. What does that label "anon" mean, the one you directed towards me? Ilir pz 23:29, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

ok. I got the "anon" label now. But I always use my address, and I sometimes forget to sign maybe. Is that still anon? not signing? Ilir pz 23:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

and after all this explanation, which I appreciate, I got very curious, where do I fit in this label? can you please tell me? thanks,Ilir pz 23:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Still puzzled, you said "Sorry, I wasn't aware that that anon was you. ". I know some English to understand this. Ilir pz 23:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

oh so now you accuse me of being someone with that IP. So that is what all this is about. Whatever. I wasted my time. I am not that guy/girl, d00d. No need to point without facts anyways. Quite disappointing from your side, as an experienced wikipedian. Thanks!Ilir pz 00:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, misunderstanding. Ilir pz 00:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Your request

To answer that I must know what it is. --Golbez 01:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Way

Do you know that in Preseva it was war for mor then thre months. Why you are rv.--172.173.56.105 02:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

In Serbia are more than 2% albananies. --172.173.56.105 02:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Another question

Hi, I noticed that you said here that you're not Turkish. Out of shere curiosity, what ethnicity are you? --Khoikhoi 07:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Turkish is a nationality not an ethnicity unlike Turkic.

I do not reveal any personal info on wikipedia or on the internet (a personal policy, nothing personal). So, I will have to decline in answering that. My userpage lists a number of nationalities I have so far been declared by others if you are still interested.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 07:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I understand.

Wait, what do you think of the Turkish people page then? It's about the Turkic citizens of Turkey. --Khoikhoi 07:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

There are serious pov issues on wikipedia involving Turkey on wikipedia. That one is a great example. Every citizen of Turkey is Turkish. Some Kurds/Turks for example find that insultive and modify the article in question so that it becomes like this. I intend to fix all such factual inacuracies.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 07:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, how do you suggest we fix it? We already have People of Turkey and Demographics of Turkey articles. --Khoikhoi 07:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

If you take a look at Batman, Turkey it is been declared "predominantly kurdish" with no basis. As in a census establishing ethnicity was never held. My attempts to fix this factual acuracy by stating a census wasnt held even though bbc "claims" the area to be "predominantly kurdish" was reverted on sight.

So I think any attempt to "fix" will result in a revert war. We need to first deal with this kind of infestation. Take a look at Category talk:Kurdistan

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 07:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm..looks like a sticky situation. BTW, Diyako/Xebat was blocked for 1 month for personal attacks. --Khoikhoi 07:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I am aware. I actualy track every block on wikipedia via my bot which used to serve on #wikipedia-en-vandalism (currently the bot is offline on en).

Oh, infestation such as this happened before and had been dealt with in the past such as the infamous Greek/Macedonian conflict on wikipedia. Something similar will eventualy happen.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 07:47, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but I have a feeling that he may be evading it as Zanyar (talk · contribs). He's listed on WP:RFCU.

The infamous Greek/Macedonian conflict? Which one? --Khoikhoi 07:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

You might want to request a check on that on WP:ANB/I. I do note that he may be a meatpuppet rather than a sockpuppet as in he might be a diferent person with views similar to Diyako. It is also possible that Diyako might have called a friend to take over. but this is mere speculation... ^_^

There was a conflict on the naming of Republic of Macedonia. Note the article is still protected. The dispute isn't just limited to wikipedia as you can see.

This is one of the many examples of infestation on wikipedia.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 08:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

As I said, it's already at WP:RFCU, so I think that's fine. Yeah, perhaps - I'm pretty sure it's him however.

Actually, I'm the one who got Alex to protect that page. Notice that some Macedonian editor - Dipazi (talk · contribs) spammed the talk pages of a bunch of Turkish editors asking them to vote. --Khoikhoi 08:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Never the less... It is suprising the page was ever unlocked. Given that dispute. Great work you caughed a vote stacking in progress and managed to get attention. I wasnt so fortunate on the VfD of Turkish Kurdistan...

According to [11] I do feel he may be a sockpuppet... At least one other person shares your concern. But if he is using sockpuppets that really is a "positive" sign. That means his block will we extended at the very least.

there is a backlog on the check user page... Hmm...

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 08:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

InShaneee also suspects this. I have a feeling that if it's him, he may be using this account from a different location. --Khoikhoi 08:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Which may be the house accross or he might be using a proxy (open or closed). You can fake your location with little effort these days and as far as I care, diyako is determined enough for all of that. Also he might have a dinamic ip. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 08:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Shhhh! Don't give him any ideas! ;) --Khoikhoi 08:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh I dealt with this kind of behaviour on a daliy basis. Sockpuppetary is very easy to catch. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 08:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right. I'm just not as good at seeing things like that as you are. --Khoikhoi 08:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo

See: Talk:Serbia --Hipi Zhdripi 19:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Show your real face!

Khoikhoi, where are you from?, what is your nationality? (Sampa 19:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC))

Mazandarani

I do not know anything about those speculations you pointed out, though there might be some truth to them. They are different than Persians, mainly because of their language, which is not Persian and is not intelligible for Persians[12]. Their ancient language is derived from Tabari (language of Hyrcania) not Persian. Tabari texts such as Marzban Nameh were translated into Persian in medieval times [13]. I think for ethnic differentiation, language is an important factor. However I should point out that there is no ethnic nationalist attitudes among them, so I do not think CIA data is based on such speculations. For more info. on this, Please kindly take a look at the link for the academic paper provided on the Mazandarani page as well, i.e. this one [14]. The term Mazandarani people is used in academic literature by Iranians themselves [15].

According to Encyclopaedia of Islam, The Avestan and Pahlavi quotations given by Darmesteter, loc. cit., show to what degree the people of Mazandaran were regarded by the Persians as a foreign group and little assimilated. According to the Bundaheshn, xv, 28, tr. West, 58, the “Mazandaran” were descended from a different pair of ancestors to those of the Iranians and Arabs. The Shahnama reflects similar ideas (cf. the episode of Kay Kawas's war in Mazandaran, and esp. Vullers ed., i, 332, v, 290: the war is waged against Ahriman; 364, vv. 792-3: Mazandaran is contrasted with Iran; 574, v. 925: the bestial appearance of the king of Mazandaran)[16].

In scientific papers, Mazanadaranis are also depicted as a separate ethnic group [17] (p.135) where it says In general, the Persian population is mainly in central Iran, the Azeri are in the northwest, and the Gilaki, Mazandarani, and Turkmen are in the north. Kurds and Lurs are in the west region and Arabs are in the south. Also see this one [18], page 7. Heja Helweda 21:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Passing by, I thought I'd post this message:

Encyclopedia Iranica p.61 reads:

"Iranian dialects spoken along the Caspian littoral are Taleshi, Gilaki, Mazandarani, and related subdialects, and the extinct dialect of Tabarestan."

Also, the very name "Marzban Nameh" is fully Persian. Heja should know this.--Zereshk 22:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I think Heja is inflating things a bit. Mazandaranis are different of course, no doubt. But not that different, as Heja is trying to imply. They still safely fall within the Iranian identity superstructure. Heja also fails to mention that there are highly contrasting variations even within Mazandaran itself. The region highly overlapped with many cultures. Persian literature masterpieces such as Qabusnameh are products of Mazandaran.

In short, I would go with whatever E.I. says. They are far more authoritative than some essay by a "masters student" and Heja's implying links. Being "unintelligible to Persians" is no reason. I know Persian cities near Yazd and Kerman that have such thick accents that it is almost impossible to understand their speech. Every town in Iran has its own local vocabulary and uniquenesses. There are Isfahani words that the Tehrani wouldnt understand and vice versa.

On a more general note, the reason we see so many ethnic/language/race debates on the Iranian pages is that people are trying to frame or model Iran based on an incorrect set of assumptions. Unlike Europe and some other places, ethnicity, race, language, and geography in Iran absolutely have no "one to one correspondence" (logically speaking). IOW, it is incorrect to draw any clear racial/ethnic boundaries when talking about Iran and its history.

Im sure youve noticed it by now. The Safavids were Kurdish in origin, and yet morphed into an Azeri lineage that had a Persian identity! Or, Fars Province, of all places, had an indigenous Kurdish majority, and still has an indigenous Turkic population (called Qashqai). There has simply been so much interaction, migration, exchange, and overlapping in Iran's history, that it is impossible to draw clear lines and make any absolute claims, the way Heja et al are trying to do.

That's my opinion.--Zereshk 23:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

That particlular article (and debate) has gone back and forth so many times that I have simply lost interest in it. I agree with SC: WP is becoming a battleground, instead of an information repository, for different countries/people/religions/ideologies. And in that sense, it's a waste of time.

I dont know. Im not going to get invloved in that one. Life is too short, and we can be productive in more better ways.--Zereshk 23:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Iran & {{TOCleft}}

No desire to go back & forth with reverts, but I'd like to think that if the mythical seeker of information on Iran comes to the page, he/she would be better served by not having to scroll roughly a full screen down to get at any article text. It seems to me that the {{TOCleft}} construction will improve page view for users of the encyclopedia. However, your edit is obviously in good faith, & you have much more editing experience, especially in this article, so I'll leave it in your capable hands. Ssbohio 23:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll write something up for Talk:Iran. Would it be good to restore the {{TOCleft}} for a fixed period, so people can see the effect & draw their own conclusions, oer would it be better to leave it out & discuss it in the abstract?

As an aside, you might want to try it (or {TOCright}, which doesn't interfere with indents) on your talk page. The TOC is getting huge. Ssbohio 23:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Rollback

Hey man, yeah sorry I forgot to reply before. I think I had already copied your rollback and I do see the revert link, so yeah I guess so! have not used it yet though :) Thanks again, - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 23:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh wow, that felt good ;) haha -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 23:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

What are we, playing games now?! :) -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 16:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

anon

Got it. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Wardrop

Thanks Khoikhoi for correcting my Sir Oliver article. I appreciate your help. I’m new at Wiki so not that familiar with creating articles. Thanks again and sorry for any misunderstandings. If i make more mistakes, please feel free to comment on them. Wishing you all the best, LD. Noxchi Borz 02:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan

Hey great work dude! With a little more work I think this article just might have a shot at the big time! The history section still seems slightly too long and the economics section might be better served if it was shorter and some of the in-depth info. moved to the article on Afghanistan's economy. What do you think? Tombseye 03:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Cool deal. Say, what do you think about the Iranian peoples page? After some further reading and talking to some people via the internet, I think the page should be more like the Germanic people page which does a good job of emphasizing what is known (language commonalities) and discussing tribal movements, some common traits, archaeology etc. The Iranian peoples page, by comparison, is a just a good barebones start, but needs meat and the ethnic emphasis might be in need of some changes since, in the present context, even the Mongol-descended Hazara are Iranian people. Tombseye 03:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Crap, forgot to post at your discussion page. Anyway, I was thinking we work on the wording a bit as it's more important to note the languages and cultural impact, while a section on tribes that may be the ancient precursors of modern peoples might be discussed in terms of some ethnic connections as with the Germanic peoples page which is in my opinion a good template to work off of as this page will eventually then find its own direction. Sometimes I probably write more than is necessary. What's that cliche, sometimes 'less is more'. Or did i just remember that from watching Bulworth? Either way. heh heh. Tombseye 04:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, did you see the Turkish people page? Someone added all the various Afro-Turks who can be found in Turkey. Tombseye 04:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah definitely. I just moved it to the diversity section. Tombseye 04:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Republic of Moldova

I don't think you really understand much about Moldova. You know moldovans are romanians and saying that are not is a lie. Would you like to have lies here? Iasi 08:28, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

TRNC

Another textbook case, I'm afraid. But in any case, it's now on my watchlist. -- ran (talk) 19:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Nah, I don't want to debate something that I don't know about. I've left notes at both Talk:Turkey and Talk:Cyprus... put more if you think more are needed. -- ran (talk) 22:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The thing about topics like this is that it's very hard to know where to "draw the line", so to speak, unless you're somewhat familiar with the topic. Take an article like Republic of China for instance, and how its contributors have meticulously juggled terms like "China", "Republic of China", "People's Republic of China", "Taiwan", "Taiwan authorities", "island-nation", "province" etc... if someone doesn't know about the topic well enough, it's very easy for him/her to mess it up (e.g. he/she might think that "Taiwan" is offensive to the mainland government, which it is not; rather, "Republic of China" is, but that is in turn less offensive than say "Republic of Taiwan"). So yeah, that's why I'm reluctant to jump into debates like this and prefer to call for the attention of people who actually know the topic. -- ran (talk) 22:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks like I couldn't resist joining in.... I don't know the Cyprus situation well but at least I know that scare quotes are bad =D -- ran (talk) 01:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

---

Headline text

Battle of Gallipoli

There are great differences between the casulties figures in the box and the contents. You ask the neutral sources. What is neutral source? I think both sides' perspective and the other sources should be put. This is a war and it is quite normal that there will be different perspectives. (Ankaram)

Kurds and Zoroaster

Hi, I added the following info. on the Talk page of History of the Kurds:

Some sources say he was born around Chichast (Lake Urmia) [19] and He lived in the early sixth century B.C. around the same time as the Medes [20]. Also see here [21] Urmia, formerly Rezaiyeh, near Lake Urmia, is the traditional birthplace of Zoroaster. Moreover the paragraph in question did not say He is Yazidi or Kurd, it was just a quote saying Yazidis believe that he was X and Y.Heja Helweda 16:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Mmmm, interesting

I think you now feel yourself spared from the toil of learning Turkish. :-)

Behemoth 19:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed it because it doesn't respect name conventions

Southern Azerbaijan gramatically means the South of the republic of Azerbaijan which is different than the politically motivated term 'Southern Azerbaijan.' I have not removed it because I believed that Grandmaster just added it, but rather because it is simply wrong. There are exceptions which applies and it is when a republic of that name does not exist, example 'Kurdistan' which is a symbolic name like 'Western' 'Eastern' etc. Also, the UN claims of BAKU87 is simply a twisting of what was actually there. The second paragraph was simply wrong, and you can ask to any historian of the region. It was not spelled 'Azerbaijan.'

Hi

I sent you an e-mail. Can you check the anon that reverts the Greeks and Ottoman Empire articles? I think she reminds me of someone...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 18:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me. Can you give a hand to this blatant POV push?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 19:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Persians people

What is really the solution? Mediation, RfC and an ArbCom later there is still the same problem! -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 19:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you know when it ends? Is there a date? Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman its not looking its brightest at the moment anyway - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 19:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah..but thats just a temporary solution, right? -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 19:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Bright as California? - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 19:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Man, do you live under a cloud or something!! -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 19:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

always learning something new, thats me :) -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 20:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

3RR

My 4th and 5th edits are concerning the number of ethnic Greeks in Greece. Either the ethnic reality in Greece has to be mentioned like in my first edits or the number should be changed as in my latter edits. I gathered the number of Albanians, Macedonians and Turks in Greece from related Wiki articles. Instead of warning me I think you should support me in this.--81.213.75.138 19:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijan

Hey dude. I think Grandmaster's in the right there. The information in 2nd paragraph matches with what I read in Audrey Aldstadt's book as well. Obviously, nationalists do refer to the region in terms of north and south as well so that's all right too. I'm usually willing to weigh in on a subject if I think I can be of help. :) Tombseye 20:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Lol. That's pretty funny. I'd forgotten about that guy, but then again he did prompt me to add some stuff about myself on that page. I guess we're rubbing the right wrong people eh? Tombseye 20:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Zoroaster and the Kurds

Hi again. I do not think removing a whole paragraph is constructive. The section is sourced (International Journal of Kurdish Studies). The best way for those who challenge that section, is to provide academic info on supporting their case, not removing the whole thing altogether.Heja Helweda 01:45, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman and Persian Gulf

Look at this: [22]. Interesting, yes? SouthernComfort 05:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The article was just unprotected. See Talk:Persian Gulf. SouthernComfort 05:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

You're telling me - not even a single attempt at compromise or understanding. As long as this sort of behavior continues, these articles will only stagnate. SouthernComfort 05:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, maybe not. ;) This is WP, after all. SouthernComfort 05:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

That's only the tip of the iceberg, my friend. See eternal recurrence for the horrific details. SouthernComfort 05:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I sent you a couple of emails earlier today. No need to rush a response. ;) I'm headed out in a bit anyway. Take care, SouthernComfort 05:36, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi Bertilvidet,

Can you please keep an eye on the Turkish language page? Some user keeps removing the fact that around 20% of Turkey's population speaks Kurdish as a mother tongue. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 04:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Hı Khoikhoi. Thank you for the drawing my attention to that issue. I'll try to keep an eye on the article. All the best Bertilvidet 05:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I want to apologize formally for some stuff I said in the past. I regret it. You don't have to reply, I just felt bad about it, and I am trying to leave that stuff behind in Wikipedia. I'm not trying to get you to do anything for me, I'm just apologizing. Alexander 007 06:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Category:PKK victims

I'd like to note, we do not like declaring organisations as 'terrorist' on wikipedia as per WP:NPOV as well as WP:Avoid.

The reason is actualy simple: "Who determines who is terrorist". Many will agree that the US is a terrorist entity. I for one dont feel that way about the US. But you do see my point. Hence it is never approporate to have that in the article. Hence why the category in question must go.

Any disagreements? --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Cool Cat,

I totally agree with you, you must have mistaken what I meant in the edit summary, I was being sarcastic, because edits like these are obvious POV.

BTW, do you have any idea what this means?

--Khoikhoi 20:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Please evade sarcasm on edit summaries and try to minimise confusion.

Something about an RfA of yours... I am not really certain. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I apologize, thanks. --Khoikhoi 20:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

BTW, would you please be able to explain the the same thing to User:Hattusili? Thanks. --Khoikhoi 20:26, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I am not certain what you are trying to say, its a userpage... what about it?

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverting vandals/trolls on Iran

		The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		for your continuing efforts to revert vandalism & trolling Ssbohio 22:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

It takes something extra to keep your head in the face of such vitriol. Preventing damage to the Wikipedia is commendable.

That said, care should be exercised in marking reverts as minor... Ssbohio 22:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

That's cool. I hadn't realized it was a rollback (or that you were an admin, for that matter...). I was going by Help:Minor edits, which gave me this idea from its statement that reverting a page is not likely to be considered minor under most circumstances. However, reading further, I found that an administrator can semi-automatically revert the edits of the last editor of a page; all such "rollback" reversions are marked as minor by the wiki software. Would that I had known then what I know now... Ssbohio 23:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Iran

Yes, the anon is spewing a great deal of severely offensive profanity, specifically against Kashk. SouthernComfort 22:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Lol it looks like someone wants me to get a girlfriend, apparently! :) User:Kashk 22:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: White (people)

I'm a Jew and I don't think there's anything offensive about the term itself. They way the term is applied and used (such as designating a "race" as "Aryan"), however, can be offensive. Also see WP:NOR. Happy Pesah. Aucaman^Talk 23:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Well it doesn't belong to that article anyway. You might want to add it to the Aryan article which is supposed to cover the history of the term. Aucaman^Talk 23:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Even facts which are as clear as day are rejected with the most absurd questions (i.e. "offensive to whom? provide sources"!) Unbelievable. SouthernComfort 01:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Romanians

Hi! I understand that we need to put there the official dates, but we need to the estimations. As long as you had the sources, why you removed them? I call this vandalism of a page. Revert it back. NorbertArthur 14 April 2006

External links on Kurdistan Workers Party tagged for speedy deletion

An article that you have been involved in editing, External links on Kurdistan Workers Party, has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. AmiDaniel (Talk) 09:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Lazistan

Hi! I want to draw your attention to the article Lazistan. A "user" named "Lazistan" has been constantly placing a jihad flag and an irrelevant map in the article. I guess he is an Islamist of Laz origins. I wanted to counsel you, as a champion of anti-vandalism, on the issue of preventing that guy. I deleted the map and the flag. Also added is a "political party" named Lazuri Dobadona Partiya but I have serious doubts on this either. It may just be another Internet hoax. Yours. Behemoth 16:08, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

personal attacks

I suggest you to refrain from personal attacks. Your last edist may bring you a block. What you do is called harrasment. --Chisinau 17:53, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Reply

What you're doing is called "block evasion" and "disruption", Bonaparte. What ever happened to the whole PhD thing? --Khoikhoi 17:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Stop harassing me. Your edits are disruptive since you just revert without even reading them. I saw no proof until now to be blocked but you made many that may bring you a block. Stop and refrain yourself from personal attacks. --Chisinau 17:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Come on? All your edits are just reverts everyday. I don't like you or your personal attacks since we don't know eachother. --Chisinau 18:04, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't speak with those who attacked me. You used your personal attacks against my edits on your false arguments. I admit that I don't edit too much but at least I improve Wikipedia by not letting false statements like "Moldovans are not Romanians" which today I've seen it a lot. --Chisinau 18:09, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

If they will be reverter today by someone it doesn't mean that is right when is reverting. The truth is always somehow in the middle. But in this case Moldovans are Romanians and I know better than you. You may know other things but here I'm sorry to tell you that you don't know. --Chisinau 18:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

POV-pushing why? There will be people to say that if you are Budapestian you are not hungarian. Because you have a different name. Well, Khoikhoi that's not POV-pushing. It's actually better explanation. To say things straight is not always POV-pushing. I know what you mean, you don't want other to be offended by the statements like: Moldovans are Romanians. By not offending them with this kind of statements than is better to create false meanings? --Chisinau 18:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I got it now. Indeed the situation there in Moldova was very worst. I don't forget about the russification process that was made there and not only there, e.g. Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia,...etc., that's why because there was a strong russification process and they still couldn't send all romanians out of there, and there are so many ro say that they still speak romanian. By having both names there exactly like you I don't see any problem. Moldovans (Romanians) sounds reasonable for me. For you? It's neccesary to show it in order not to create artificial political separations.Chisinau 18:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

No Hottentot. Is not what I mean. Yes. You're right here but in the same time as you say don't you think is better to let the reader to decide? Yes, of course yes. That's why reader must be able to choose, that's why reader must have Moldovans (Romanians) there. Seems now a very NPOV encyclopedia. Can one count on you now? --Chisinau 18:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

See you Chisinau 18:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration

Yes, you still have time. Voting takes a while and is a fluid process, during which new proposals are always added (In fact, I just changed the Zmmz one). Also, it doesn't close until we agree to close, and if there is still evidence coming in, we'll hold off on closing. We won't wait around forever (it's been 3 weeks) but if you get evidence to us in the next few days, we'll definitely take it into consideration. Dmcdevit·t 19:03, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The probation is for one year. I had left that out carelessly, it's now stated explicitly. Dmcdevit·t 20:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Falkland Islands

Hi Khoikhoi,

Yes, I know. I tried it myself and realised it was not working. I suppose it only works if the user entering the template call is an admin. Can you do something about sprotecting the article yourself? To be honest, the anon edits do not normally stay online for long, in any case. Thanks, Asterion 19:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I will do if things get hotter. Out for a pint of bitter now! Cheers, Asterion 19:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Irpen#Please_help ? Can you not refrain? --Chisinau 19:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Giving away to vocal users

Khoikhoi, if you want ever to become an administrator, and good at it, you should impose Wikipedia guidelines and policies where they fit and not give to vocal users. Also, I strongly advice you to read all there is to read on word conventions and impose what is there with an iron arm, no matter how vocal people are. Tabib added the term South Azerbaijan there. [23]

Azerbaijan is the name of a country, before it became a country, there never was any mention of North and South Azerbaijan. If you search on google, the first hits links to nationalist websites but past the first dozen of pages, the hits are unrelated. If you are to give away like this, you are simply harming the credibility of articles.

Anatolia is also called by Armenians 'Western Armenia' so according to your logic I should decide to add that in the entry about Anatolia, afteral it gives 72,200,000 hits on google and is still included in various non-Armenian books unlike the term 'South Azerbaijan' which just appeared in the 50s and a product of the Azerbaijan Academia of science.

What the Azeri nationalists present as 'South' Azerbaijan also includes part of 'Kurdistan' or 'Persian Armenia.' In fact, Tabib even wrote to Britannica in the past because their historic map was including it as part of 'Eastern Armenia.' But I don't see any Armenians starting to include those bogus terms in every given articles they are much much more used including in Western history books and maps.

The fact of the matter is that when someone say South Azerbaijan other than Azeris nationalists others will think that it is the south of the republic of Azerbaijan. Fad (ix) 20:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

You restreigned your search, which Grandmaster hasn't done so. We can not use google as sole source to establish the notability of a term. Also known suggest that people know that territory also as 'South Azerbaijan.' I have access to many publications from my institutions proxy.

You can start with http://www.questia.com/, and search 'South Azerbaijan' and see how many results you will obtain. http://www.oxfordjournals.org/ yield no relevent result, neither http://www.jstor.org/search/ Search if you find any relevent articles there. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/, I had no result for the Sage Full-text Collections. The ISI database yield no result. While those yield no result for South Azerbaijan, most do for 'Western Armenia' and 'Western Armenian' yields millions of results on google. But I know that adding Western Armenian to Anatolia is not a good thing to do, because it is misleading and against the guidline. The guidline specifically covers the uses of words that are misleaing in their nature. That the independence movement is more important now, doesn't change the fact that for nearly all non-Azeris people, South Azerbaijan means the South of the republic of Azerbaijan. I do not make the rules, that this was there before before an anonymous user deleted it doesn't change the fact that this term is not an also known, because the very large majority of people don't know that place as South Azerbijan, and that as if that was not enough that term is in contradiction with the guidlines because Azerbaijan is a republic and its South is it's South. That term has a place in that article, by saying something such 'Azeris often refer to that locality as 'South' or 'Southern' Azerbaijan, but to say that it is an also known is simply wrong, it simply conflict with another existing place, which is the South of the republic. Also, that term was not there first, it was introduced there by Tabib, who also requested the term 'Khojali genocide' as an also called in the lead of the article in Khojali massacre, and he claimed that just because Azeris claim so or that it yields result on google it should stay. The term 'holohoax' yield more result than South Azerbaijan, according to those standards the Holocaust entry should also contain something to the effect 'holohoax.' We have guidlines for a reason, and it is for the quality of the articles, if every national group was to write things the way they would want, Wikipedia will just fall apart. Fad (ix) 23:09, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, my goal wasn't to request a non-involvement, but rather telling you to not give up to vocal users. I won't try to sort things up with Grandmaster, I gave up with him, he doesn't even want to listen but only impose whatever he thinks fit. So I'll let that be, he can do whatever he want. Fad (ix) 23:31, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Language

Hello Khoikhoi.Do you mind if i provide this[24] as a source? --Karaman 20:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Well...? --Karaman 21:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo

This [25] and this [26]. --Karaman 21:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Then what about this[27]? You are right about Turkish Wikipedia.But I have been editing TW as well and i can assure you about half of TW are opposite Kurds. --Karaman 21:56, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

There are 50,000 - 60,000 Turks in Kosovo indeed but many of them had been saved their origins as Albanians.Because Serbs are trying to provoke Albanians against Turks, unfortunately.But census is census for sure. --Karaman 22:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

napoleon

Done. `'mikka (t) 23:08, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Khojaly Massacre Vs Massacre's in Azerbaijan

Durring the time periods of 1987 to 1996 Baku and Azerbaijni Government and presidant have carried out countless massacres of Armenian people residing in The Azerbaijani Republic. Khojaly cant officialy be even called a massacre allied country Turkey or GUAM hasent even gone in and counted the casualties in Khojaly. I am very sick of Azerbaijani whining about Khojaly and calling it a Genocide not more then 200 people died there, But Armenian case there has been more then 80 thousand official casualties.

These are some Articles i have prepared for you reader's. Please take time too read these Articles from Various providers (New's Paper's ect..) and come to an actual conclusion over the Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict and War wise.

Sumgayit, February 27-29 1988: Azerbaijani mobs organize premeditated anti- Armenian pogroms in Sumgait, Azerbaijan, an industrial city on the shores of the Caspian Sea. Hundreds are killed. Nearly all of the remaining Armenian inhabitants hastily flee. United Press International, 2/29/88; New York Times, 3/1/88

Karabaghi president Arkady Ghuasian, senior officials of executive and legislative government of Karabagh and other public figures visited the Monument dedicated to the 1988 Sumgait tragic events’ victims and paid homage to the memory of the victims.

A divine liturgy was also served by the participation of senior clergymen.

© Copyright AZG

Anti-Armenian Violence Sumgait: The vigorous but mainly peaceful political activity in Karabakh and Yerevan was accompanied by a resumption of killings. On February 27, fanatical Azeri-Turks went on a three day rampage in Sumgait, a new industrial town 20 miles from Baku, murdering members of the town's large Armenian minority and destroying their property. According to the official Soviet account 32 died, but eyewitness reports stfongly suggest the true figure runs into the hundreds. Marina Pogosyan, a young survivor of the Sumgait massacre, testified: "On the twenty-sixth, a Friday, a friend of mine warned me to stay inside over the weekend. Still, I went to work - I taught in a nursery schood - and walked home at noon. That afternoon, there was another Azerbaijani rally, in downtown Sumgait, and then crowds of people went through the shopping area where Armenians worked, and broke windows and smashed things. I heard cries of 'Death to Armenians! Blood for blood!' It was mostly young people, and the police didn't stop thepn. Late that night, after we had gone to bed, we heard yelling on the street, and through the window I saw thousands of people in a mob marching through the street, most dressed in black, carrying clubs and Turkish flags with the half-moon. They were yelling, 'Get out! Armenians are killing our people and you're sitting here! We must purge our city! The next day, we went to a neighbor's in the building for. her birthday party. We talked about what we had seen, but we thought it was just young hooligans, fhen a neighbor boy came in, looking pale. We asked him what was happening, and he said: 'You don't know? They're killing and burning people out there, breaking into people's apartments.' We called the police, and they said: 'Stay where you are. You're not the only ones. We can't help you.' A Russian neighbor came to us and invited us to wait in her apartment. There were about three families with her - fifteen people. We spent the whole night there. The mob came and knocked on our door, and she went outside and told them that we were not there - that we'd moved a week ago. A few times after that, they passed by and broke into neighbors' apartments. By that time, no Armenians were home. So there were no killings (in her building-ed.), but there was a lot of destruction. They threw the chairs and the dishes out of the window. I had absolutely no hope that we'd survive. I figured they'd kill us all sooner or later. The mob came again, but on Monday soldiers came in tanks and took us to the Party committee building." (Cullen, 1991, pp. 66-7)

Marina Pogosyan and her family were allowed to collect money and a few possessions before being flown to Yerevan. Most of Sumgait's Armenian community survived the attacks. Many, like Miss Pogosyan, were sheltered by brave Russian and Azeri-Turk neighbours. But the fate of those who fell into the hands of the mob was cruel. Lola Avakyan, a 37-year-old Armenian resident of Sumgait was one of the unfortunate. Seized by an Azeri-Turk crowd, she was stripped and forced to dance before having her breasts slashed and body burned with cigarettes. She was raped and then killed. Several AzeriTurks were arrested and convicted for their involvement in the mayhem.

Sumgait postscript: On March 2, 1993, the Office of Azerbaijani Procurator announced that it had recommended that President Eichibey grant an amnesty to those convicted of violent offenses against Armenians during the Sumgait pogrom. The Procurator's Office reported that it expected the President to act according to its recommendation. On the same day, a proposal for the amnesty to be announced on May 28, 1993 - the 74th anniversary of the founding of the first Republic of Az.

The Conflict Erupts: February 1988 On 20 February 1988, the Oblast Soviet of the NKAO weighed up the results of an unofficial referendum on the reattachment of Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia, held in the form of a petition signed by 80,000 people. In 1979, the entire population of the NKAO was 162,000, with 123,000 Armenians and 37,000 Azeris. On the basis of that referendum, the session of the Oblast Soviet of Nagorno-Karabakh adopted the appeals to the Supreme Soviets of the USSR, Azerbaijan and Armenia, asking them to authorize the secession of Karabakh from Azerbaijan and its attachment to Armenia. Baku rejected the NKAO Oblast Soviet's decision. The line taken by the Centre seemed to be to wait and see, giving the Azerbaijani authorities the opportunity to resolve the crisis as they saw fit.

After the first direct clash between an Azeri crowd and Armenian residents, near Askeran, in which about 50 Armenians were wounded and two Azeri attackers killed, Deputy USSR Procurator-General A. Katusev, speaking on central TV on 27 February, told the audience about the killing of two young Azeris, specifically naming the nationality of those killed. This announcement may have acted as a catalyst. Within hours, a pogrom against Armenian residents began in the city of Sumgait, 25 km from Baku. The pogrom, obviously prepared months in advance and marked by forms of extreme cruelty, lasted for three days, with the Azeri police nowhere to be seen. Phone calls to the police or the ambulance service went unanswered. Leading AzCP functionaries took part in the meetings which preceded mob violence, and a local Party boss even led the crowds. Moreover, in 1988 the KGB machine with its network of informers was still functioning, from which it may be presumed that Baku, if not the KGB in Moscow, had known about the preparations for the pogrom. Soviet (Russian) troops, including those in Sumgait itself, apparently had strict orders not to shoot. It was not until the third day of the killings that Soviet troops finally intervened, arresting some small fry, mostly youngsters. On orders from Moscow, the Sumgait affair was judicially covered up and the press largely silenced.

The failure of Soviet leaders to use force to protect civilians was to have important repercussions in subsequent ethnic conflicts in the Caucasus and Central Asia: by making it appear that violence paid, it unleashed a cycle of violence. It was clear that there would be no punishment for ejecting a national minority under the threat of terror. For the Armenians, Sumgait conjured up memories of the genocide by Young Turks in 1915, ever present in the Armenian psyche. Gorbachev's failure to act, though apparently intended to prevent a wider outbreak of violence in Azerbaijan, was viewed as a betrayal by the Armenians, for it was he who had inspired the hope that democracy would prevail on the national question as well.

Kirovobad, Presant day Ganca. March 4, 1998: Gangs of Azerbaijanis attack, beat, and kill Armenians in the streets of Kirovabad (Ganja). The number killed is unknown. Azerbaijani police do little to stop the violence. Toronto Star, 3/11/88

CNGC March 4 1988: Over 10.000 Armenians have fled city of Kirovabad, many of them bitten beyond recognition, number of killed: over 670.

Opetration Ring: Getashen city Nagorno-Karabakh Republic

In the spring of 1991, the Azeri-Turks embarked on a new type of offensive against the Armenians living in the Autonomous Region of Nagomo Karabakh and in the Shaumyan district to the north. It was called 'Operation Ring'.

Military forces of the 23rd Division of the Soviet 4th Army stationed in Azerbaijan joined in combined operations with Azerbaijani Ministry of Interior (OMON, or 'black beret' forces) to undertake systematic deportations of Armenians.

'Operation Ring' started in late April 1991 with the villages of Getashen and Martunashen. These names will be seared onto the memory of Armenians alongside Baku and Sumgait for the brutality of the suffering inflicted on their people. The operations, carried out against vulnerable villagers, were remarkable for their ferocity. The pattern established in Getashen and Martunashen was later repeated against other villages in the Shaumyan district and elsewhere in Nagomo Karabakh. 

Typically, the deportation exercise would begin with Soviet 4th Army troops surrounding the villages with tanks and armoured personnel carriers; military helicopters would hover low overhead. Once the village was surrounded by Soviet troops, the Azerbaijani OMON would move in and start harassing the villagers. They would round up men, women and children, usually on a pretext such as a 'passport check'. Many acts of brutality were committed: men were assaulted and killed; women were raped, children maltreated; civilians abducted as hostages.

Azeri-Turk citizens from nearby villages would come with pick-up trucks and cars, looting, pillaging and stealing everything from household goods to livestock. The Armenian villagers were then driven off their land, being forced to live as displaced people either elsewhere in Nagono Karabakh or in Armenia. As a result of these actions in Karabagh and Armenian villigeas near the border of Armenia have lost more than 500 people, over 100 were killed and several hundred more were taken hostages.

Maraga, Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.

Tragic events took place in Martakert district Maraga village of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic exactly ten years ago – April 10, 1992, when according to different estimates 49 to 53 people were murdered. According to «Arminfo» agency report, over 50 others including 9 children were taken hostage. The fortune of most of them is still unknown. Unprecedented cruel crimes against the village peaceful residents were committed by the Azeri military units
 – Special destination militia detachments rushed into Maraga together with twenty tanks. The slaughter was renewed April 22, when the survived residents of Maraga returned to bury those dead. 
  The data on Maraga victims is confirmed by different international human rights organizations, in particular by «Helsinki Watch.» Having arrived at the tragedy scene Vice-Speaker of the House of Lords of the British Parliament Caroline Cox witnessed the people bury remains of cut up and sawed bodies, children and adults burnt alive.

Baroness Caroline Cox has described Azeri atrocities in Maraga village in her book entitled «Ethnic cleansing continues». In particular, Cox waxes indignant over the fact that Azeris make high-sounding statements and appeal to various international organizations on the occasion of the events in khojalu, where in her words, everything was not so unambiguous, while the Armenians having at their disposal incontestable proofs of the atrocities present them to the international community insufficiently actively. The Maraga tragedy is viewed as one of the most horrible examples of genocide and is considered by the Karabakh side among Azerbaijan's bloody crimes in Getashen, Martunashen, Buzluh, Erkej and other settlements in the north of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic at the time of aggression in 1991-1992.

KHOJALU TRAGEDY OR AYAZ MUTALIBOV’S LATE CONFESSION:

February 26 marks the tenth anniversary of a tragedy that occurred in Khojalu village in the Askeran region of Nagorno Karabagh. It doubtless was a tragedy as it took the lives of 600 people. The 1992 February was the highlight of the war in Karabagh, when Azeri armed units occupied almost half of Karabagh’s territory and its capital Stepanakert was being bombarded day and night from nearby located Khojalu and Aghdam. Karabagh was actually strangled.

Back in 1992 Heydar Aliyev, who was then chairman of Nakhichevan parliament, blamed the Khojalu tragedy on the then president of Azerbaijan Ayaz Mutalibov. Aliyev was quoted by Azeri news agency Bilik Dunyasi as saying that “the bloodshed would be in our favor and we must not interfere.”

Regretfully the Khojalu tragedy has been exploited in Azerbaijan for inner-political goals, when the tragedy of innocent people is being exploited for the sake of political intrigues. Who killed the residents of Khojalu?. Let us put aside all suppositions, let us apply to chronicles. An Azeri cameramen Chingiz Mustafaev, who was shooting a documentary in Aghdam and nearby territories, controlled then by Azerbaijani People’s Front, has questioned the official Azerbaijani theory that it was committed by Armenians and began a journalistic investigation. His first contribution to the Moscow-based D-Press news agency about possible involvement of Azeri troops in it cost him dearly. Shortly after it he was killed in Aghdam region under obscure circumstances. Another evidence came from former chairman of Azeri parliament Karayev who said that the tragedy was plotted and implemented by a top Azeri official.

In a recent interview with the Moscow-based Nezavisimaya Gazeta Azerbaijan’s ex-president Ayaz Mutalibov insists that if the People’s Front had not hindered signing of an agreement that was to place the Azeri army under the command of the CIS chief military headquarters, the Khojalu tragedy would not have happened.

The interview was entitled “Late Confession.” Mutalibov in other cases insisted that Armenians provided Azeris with a humanitarian corridor to leave Khojalu, but the armed forces of the People’s Front fired at innocent residents near the border of Aghdam. About 600 women, children and old men fell victim to the slaughter, committed by the People’s Front of Azerbaijan. They also murdered brutally 34 Armenians in Khojalu.

By Tatool Hakobian © Copyright AZG

Please Take some time to read these Article's and notice the Truth of whats happening in the Caucausus. The People of Armenia And Nagorno-Karabakh have been fighting for there rights and the truth. So dont let another day of inacurate information pass thru you again if you do not believe me then go there yourself and find out the harsh truth, I am a citizan of the United States and Rusian Federation i am Of Direct Karabakhci Descent and i have seen all of this as an eye witness. Please dont take this Issue as a joke, Whats happening in the Trans-Caucasion area is just as serious as DArfur and need's to be helped by every one from around the world.

Greatly appriciated 166.113.212.83 21:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)Tigran Vladimirovich Garamyan,АНБ Роccийcкой Фидираций