Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities

Welcome to the humanities section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

October 20

Car model

What model is this car: 1, 2? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.25.59.32 (talk) 11:13, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

It's a cartoon, so it isn't any real model as far as I can tell, but it shares some design features with several popular models first released in the first decade of the 2000s: the Scion xB, the Nissan Cube, the Kia Soul, the Ford Flex. It isn't identical to any of them, but the general body shape matches key features of some or all of them. --Jayron32 11:49, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

It's from Al Capone's mafia in Chicago, then you can search on that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.25.59.32 (talk) 12:02, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

If it is supposed to be Al Capone's car, his most famous car was a dark green Cadillac Series 341 (also called the Town Sedan), see here, which except for the grille and headlight assembly, doesn't much look like your cartoon. --Jayron32 12:19, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I would say it isn’t supposed to be any specific model… but rather it is supposed to evoke a typical car from the 1920s/30s. Blueboar (talk) 12:36, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Kind of, given the front end, but the basic body shape is very different from typical 1920s cars, and very much like typical 2000s cars (as the models I noted above). It honestly looks like someone slapped a 1920s grille on a Scion xB. --Jayron32 12:41, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Homewreckers?

There is a specific reason why I singled out Macron but it will become apparent at a later date

Besides Emmanuel Macron who homewrecked the marriage of his high school teacher 25 years his senior and became a step-dad to her children who are around his age, who are the other notable homewreckers across history? StellarHalo (talk) 21:19, 20 October 2022 (UTC) There are several lists of "famous homewreckers" online. E.g.: Los Angeles Times & Chicago Tribune. 136.56.52.157 (talk) 22:01, 20 October 2022 (UTC) Trump and Giuliani come to mind immediately. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:40, 20 October 2022 (UTC) As does Newt Gingrich. MarnetteD|Talk 01:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC) A cursory glance through the history of most royal families I'm sure would turn up copious examples. In general, look for those with largely unfettered power and resources, and you'll find the basic ingredients for 'homewrecking'. And I put the homewrecking in quotes, because the homewrecking you refer to on the part of the powerful person generally (but not always) involves the consent of the homewrecked. Indeed the 'homewrecked' may well be the one that instigates or pursues the relationship as they seek a high status partner. In other words, both parties are generally to blame for the situation, so labeling the person who 'stole' the married partner as a homewrecker is really a pretty loaded term, as it's really laying all the blame at the feet of the individual who wasn't in the relationship, which may well not be the case. --jjron (talk) 07:32, 21 October 2022 (UTC) I should possibly remind everyone in this thread that WP:BLP still applies at the ref desks, and that specific word choices matter. Terms like extramarital relationship does not carry as much potential for policy violations as some of the other words used in this thread. Please tread lightly; a living person doing abhorrent things does not exempt BLP policy when using derogatory terms to discuss them, and "scare quotes" do not provide an exemption either. --Jayron32 11:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC) I agree with Jayron32. "Homewrecker" is imprecise pejorative slang, and should never be used anywhere on Wikipedia to describe a living person, except possibly in a direct quotation from a reliable source. Cullen328 (talk) 01:19, 22 October 2022 (UTC) Did a reliable source directly claim that Macron "homewrecked" someone's marriage? If not, then this entire section should be erased. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:16, 22 October 2022 (UTC) The homewrecker article defines it as being "a person, object or activity that causes or comes close to causing the breakup of a marriage (or similar partnership). The homewrecker is said to have taken one of the spouses away from the marriage, thus "wrecking" the marital home." In that definition the term is largely descriptive of what has happened, rather than pejorative as most here are assuming. In general use we do think of the term 'wreck' as being negative, but it may not be meant to be in this definition. In terms of the original question, the Brigitte Macron article says "In 1993 ...she met the 15-year-old Emmanuel Macron in La Providence High School ... She divorced Auzière (her then husband) in January 2006 and married Macron in October 2007.", while the Emmanuel Macron article says "...they only became a couple once he was 18 ... the couple reunited after Macron graduated, and were married in 2007.". These descriptions would seem to meet a basic interpretation of the definition given above in that one was married and the other was not, but no detail is given in either article as to who instigated the relationship, or who pursued it in the many years between when they met, when they 'first' became a couple (c1996 according to the details given), when her first marriage ended (2006, a decade later), and when the current couple married. The obvious assumption would be that there are links between these things, but they are not specified in the articles here, and indeed, from the information in the Wikipedia articles, the end of the marriage may have been independent of the relationship of the current couple. --jjron (talk) 08:00, 22 October 2022 (UTC) The question is why the OP singled out Macron. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:28, 22 October 2022 (UTC) Other sources are not bound to the rules of Wikipedia, and BLP rules apply here, even if they do not apply elsewhere. Find other ways to describe the situation. "Extramarital affair" is generally better; so long as it is admitted or proven (of course, unproven allegations of this type should NOT be shared anywhere on Wikipedia). Pejorative terms should not be used here. --Jayron32 14:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC) The OP should box this section up. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

October 21

on the seven wonders of the "medieval and middle ages"

it currently prints that the middle ages and medieval is untrue because it was invented after the middle ages and during the enlightened era. if you were alive in the middle ages and medieval times "it wasnt called that and if it was called anything the age inhabitants would of considered it the " end of the world age, or maybe hope in the future " i hope you read what is printed currently and get my point. thank you 2400:4152:9300:9600:DC36:8718:C7E5:D54 (talk) 01:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

What Wikipedia article are you talking about? <-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 01:48, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but Joachim of Fiore predicted that the world would transition into a new era of divine history in 1260... AnonMoos (talk) 04:41, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

It is hard to know what point you're making given you don't link to an article. Perhaps Wonders_of_the_World#Lists_from_other_eras? But even with that, I still don't get what point you're making. Are you wanting us to reword the article, remove the list, or what? --jjron (talk) 07:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the OP is referring to this, though their question (if there is a question) makes no sense to me either. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:00, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Numbers are the object of studies. They are also easily dissociated from what they may be associated to by the study. As a result, the qualities and relations associated with them were frequently variable before the digital age; they can even remain so in many fields. --Askedonty (talk) 09:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

• The OP is indeed hard to understand, but what I think will help them understand better is the concept of historiography, how we talk about history, rather than the history itself. There are lots of ways we discuss the past that were not used by the people living in those times. Of course people living during the middle ages didn't use the term "middle ages" because it wasn't the middle of anything for them. That doesn't mean it is inappropriate for modern historians to use it, however; while arbitrary it is a convenient and well-attested term to refer to the millenium between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the age of Transatlantic exploration and colonization. --Jayron32 11:04, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

If, rummaging through the archives of a medieval monastery, I come upon a manuscript describing Seven Wonders of the World, I might be forgiven when, including a translation into contemporary English in a publication on my discovery, I'd add the title "Seven Wonders of the Middle Ages" to it. So (IMO) the presence of such a title is not by itself a strong argument against historical authenticity. It becomes suspect when the title is present in the allegedly historical original document, or when this document cannot be produced or has no plausible provenance.  --Lambiam 12:57, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Soviet frigate Storozhevoy Mutiny

I was watching a video[1] of Tom Clancy describing the Soviet frigate Storozhevoy Mutiny. In his version of events, the Soviet forces accidentally fired on the wrong Krivak-class frigate. Are there sources that can support this claim?

The English wikipedia article doesn't describe any friendly fire incidents. But I thought maybe the Russian wikipedia article may have something about it. Helian James (talk) 12:00, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

You can read an autogenerated translation of an article on Russian wikipedia - paste the URL of the article into translate.google.com and click on the link it puts into the "English" side. here it is, and if you click on a link it autotranslates that too - looks like your best bet is to click through to "Uprising on the Watchtower". 70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

The Russian Wikipedia has a separate article on the mutiny: Восстание на «Сторожевом», which states:

В ходе этого эпизода один из бомбардировщиков по ошибке атаковал советский сухогруз, шедший из Вентспилса в Финляндию^[2][1] и повредил его осколками бомб. Вылет бомбардировщиков Як-28^[3] был организован неудачно, за что почти весь руководящий состав авиадивизии и авиаполка получил предупреждение о неполном служебном соответствии от имени главнокомандующего ВВС^[1].

Google translate turns this into:

During this episode, one of the bombers mistakenly attacked a Soviet cargo ship sailing from Ventspils to Finland^[2][1] and damaged it with bomb fragments. The departure of the Yak-28^[3] bombers was unsuccessfully organized, for which almost the entire leadership of the air division and air regiment received a warning of incomplete service compliance on behalf of the Air Force Commander-in-Chief^[1].

 --Lambiam 15:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Helian James (talk) 19:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

October 22

judgement enforcement

why is it that enforcement of judicial decisions are done by the executive actors and that the judiciary is deficient in power to do so? Grotesquetruth (talk) 08:04, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Because it's dissociating the judiciary action, thus the judiciary time, from the time of urgency. Besides its capacity to mandate is indicative of its power, rather than coincidently, its strength. Whereas power may be challenged through its capacity, it's much harder to efficiently challenge one enabled through mandate because emerges first it's the object of the mandate that has to be challenged. --Askedonty (talk) 08:54, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

If this power is not granted to the judiciary, this is done by design to create a balance of powers between various powerful actors. You don't want to give any one party the power to act as a prosecutor, judge and executioner. This would make it very hard to counter abuse of power.  --Lambiam 17:31, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

See Separation of powers. Xuxl (talk) 19:19, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

In fact enforcement has not to be specificaly related to the executive, see Police power (United States constitutional law) --Askedonty (talk) 19:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I get tired of saying this, but in what jurisdiction are you asking about? The legal and political systems of the world are not universal, and when you ask these broad questions without specifying which legal/political system it is basically impossible to answer. Everyone here has been answering based on which system they are familiar with based on where they live, but there is nothing universal about this. OP, I ask again: Where are you asking about? And from today forward, please ALWAYS indicate so when you ask these questions. It really makes a BIG difference. --Jayron32 15:30, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

My response was not based on a system I am familiar with based on where I live. Please note the conditional in "If this power is not granted to the judiciary, ...". In other words, the reply did not assume the judiciary lacks to power to enforce judicial decisions. I cannot construe such parochial views from the other responses either.  --Lambiam 20:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

October 23

When did the border between Turkey and Armenia close?

Armenia–Turkey border says 1993 but:

• On which day precisely did the land border close? when was it voted/announced?
• What about direct flights?

A455bcd9 (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

This article says 4 April, but this one and this one say 3 April. This book also goes for 3 April. Alansplodge (talk) 20:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. It's also April 3rd according to the BBC, I'll add this date to the article. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

What about the airspace? This source says April 5th. I found another one saying 1994. But it reopened at least in 2022: Al Jazeera, Azatutyun, if not before 2020, 2015. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Also, Armenia–Turkey relations gives a different version as resolution 822 was adopted on 30 April 1993: "Turkey cosponsored UN Security Council Resolution 822 affirming Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan's territorial integrity and demanding that Armenian forces withdraw from Kelbajar. Later in 1993 Turkey joined Azerbaijan in imposing an economic embargo on Armenia and the border between the two states was closed." A455bcd9 (talk) 08:58, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

October 24

What happens to child beggars after they grow older?

What do their masters do with them after they leave childhood and become adults especially the ones that are completely blind, deformed with sulphuric acid and knives, or missing a limb or two? Not saying they had much of a childhood to begin with since this type of economic activity typically began when they were toddlers but they stop making as much money as they get older since I am sure that people with coins to spare are much more sympathetic to begging children than adult beggars. StellarHalo (talk) 07:01, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

• I would assume that many (most?) don’t make it to adulthood. Blueboar (talk) 11:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
• If they're still poor, they presumably go on to become beggars. Is this a trick question? Matt Deres (talk) 15:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

  These children are slaves though. They are begging on the streets not because they choose to do this but only because their owners force them to after having bought/kidnapped and maimed them. My question is what happens to these children once they outlive their usefulness? StellarHalo (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

  They become politicians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:21, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

  The theme of child beggars who go on to great success is a recurring theme in literature. Kim by Rudyard Kipling is one example. Citizen of the Galaxy by Robert A. Heinlein is another example. Cullen328 (talk) 01:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

• Interesting enough, an oft repeated claim [2] [3] [4] [5] is "And when trafficked children get too old to beg effectively, they often graduate into forced prostitution, the black-market organ trade, or other gruesome fates." The wording of the last one varies a bit e.g. other underground activities or even in become suicide bombers in the Pakistani source. Note that the Slate source may be the originator of this specific claim, it seems to be the oldest, but also it's the only one which gives a source for it which is this document 2008 [6]/[7] and I'm not convinced the supporting document really support the claim. While I didn't read it entirety, from what I can tell while it talks about forced begging and trafficking for forced begging, along with trafficking for other purposes including forced prostitution although nothing about the black-market organ trade AFAICT; it doesn't seem to particularly talk about trafficked children being moved into other activities when they get too old. (There is mention of how one victim was sold at a discount because he was getting too old, but this story ends with the victim being arrested for overstaying their visa.) So while I don't doubt all of those happen I also suspect some of them are simply abandoned as they get too old and their captor no longer feels they can use them nor can they find someone to sell them to. As mentioned by others, some may die before then but also some may fall out of their captors control before then including those ones fortunate enough to be rescued, but also for other reasons e.g. in some cases where they are arrested, those who are deported etc. Also it's not clear to me if the OP understands that not all children beggars are under someone else's control. As the mentioned by the 2008 document, street children obviously beg as well even when not under the control of some other party. These street children are vulnerable to being captured and forced into activities including continued begging, but it does not mean it always happens and there's also likely to be varying levels of control and exploitation even when there are other people involved. (See e.g. [8] [9].) In some cases it may also be at a family level and again, there will be varying levels of exploitation and coercion and different things may happen as the child gets too old. Nil Einne (talk) 12:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Has Caesar seen a Unicorn?

I have been reading the comic Asterix and the Griffin. One of his aides talk about Griffin, and Julius Caesar is interested, but also sceptical. He says "On your say-so, I stated in my 'Gallic Wars' that there were unicorns in Germania, which earned me quite a lot of comment in forums". This is, of course, a fictionalized version of Julius Caesar, and the comic is all about satire and counterfactual history, but an editor's note next to the Unicorn comment says "True". Is it true? Did the real Caesar mention unicorns in the Commentarii de Bello Gallico? The article does not say so, but it would be a useless trivia that may not be noteworthy for mention in it anyway. Cambalachero (talk) 14:38, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

• 6.26
• Hyde, Walter Woodburn (1918). "The Curious Animals of the Hercynian Forest". The Classical Journal. 13 (4): 231–45.
• Aili, Hans. "Caesar's elks: interpolation, myth, or fact?" (PDF). Eranos. 105: 4–17. (on authorship question)
• Allen-Hornblower, Emily (December 2014). "Beasts and Barbarians in Caesar's Bellum Gallicum 6.21-8". The Classical Quarterly. 64 (2): 682–693. (WP:Library, see fn# 41)
• Wiener, Leo (1917). Contributions toward a history of Arabico-Gothic culture. pp. 58–9, 240–3.

Based on above i don't think it is useless trivia at all, and some content in De Bello Gallico and Hercynian Forest would be valuable. Aili and Allen-Hornblower seem to have decided that the passages were in fact due to Caesar, but don't know that should be definitive, or if the bos cervi figura reindeer was influenced by the unicorn tradition. So that's a lot of reading that does not really answer your question. fiveby(zero) 13:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

October 25

What are May Lights in reference to old Customs and Excise documents?

[10]https://archive.org/details/reportbythomastu71tuckuoft/page/52/mode/2up While researching for an essay I came upon this set of Graphs detailing the customs and excise of various Scottish ports over various periods of time. I (or at least I think I) understand that customs and excise are the taxes of goods entering and leaving the country respectively, though I have no clue what the "May Lights" row is for, and what it means in relation to the other information. 2A02:C7C:C828:A600:1802:AD6C:D067:7C4C (talk) 13:52, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Isle of May#Lighthouses? fiveby(zero) 13:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah, and note in that article that the lighthouses charged a fee to ships. Note also that in the customs report, "May lights" only occurs under ports on the Scottish east coast, where the Isle of May is. I think that must be it. --174.89.144.126 (talk) 14:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

The Literary Panorama and National Register - Volume 3 - Page 1025 (1816) says:

May Lights. It is with great pleasure we congratulate the public and the nautical world , on the alteration which took place lately on the Isle of May, by the substitution of an oil light, with reflectors, contained within a glazed room, instead of an exposed coal fire.

Alansplodge (talk) 11:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

billionaire

I had thought that a billionaire was someone with 1e9 bucks in the bank or some equivalent in owned assets that could in principle be sold, or that sort of thing. That is, assets that are under someone else's control don't count. Thus the term "F-U money". But now I hear[11] that Ye aka Kanye West just lost his billionaire status as a result of Adidas unilaterally (though with justification) cancelling a joint marketing deal:

Forbes magazine said the end of the deal meant Ye's net worth shrank to $400 million. The magazine had valued his share of the Adidas partnership at $1.5 billion.

Do those sorts of potential income streams that depend on someone else's good graces usually count as assets? I have a pretty dim opinion of Ye, Adidas, expensive sneakers, and the whole general situation around celebrities, so am mostly asking this just as a matter of understanding concepts. (I don't hold the crazy rant against Ye that much personally though, since it's like when a mentally ill person goes into a violent rage. It's mostly just sad and the best I can do is hope that the person recovers).

Thanks. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 23:18, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Assets, in this context a synonym of wealth, is something else than income. Someone whose net worth (assets) is high can have a low income; perhaps they own a de Kooning while living on a small pension. Conversely, someone can have a very high income but spend all on gambling, so in the end their wealth amounts to nothing and their heirs may inherit only debts.  --Lambiam 17:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

• Yes, they count as assets, perhaps intangible assets. Branding, Goodwill (accounting), etc. Abductive (reasoning) 05:56, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I have to wonder about the accounting, especially if that value was at someone else's whim. Or if it was protected by a contract with a DBAD clause, could someone as volatile as Ye have gotten insurance against the clause triggering? For that matter, if I have a contract with Elon Musk saying that tomorrow he's going to flip a coin and pay me $3 billion if it comes up heads, can I claim to be a billionaire today? Maybe yes, in the sense that maybe an insurer or other backer would pay me $1B today for the 50% chance (minus some Musk flakiness risk) of collecting $3B tomorrow. Goodwill per the article only comes from acquisitions, which doesn't apply to Ye afaict. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 15:35, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

October 26

What percentage of Jews in Israel could be considered "indigenous"?

I saw someone equate Palestinian political violence to Native American violence against white settlers in the Americas and equate all violent acts by Israel, its military, police and settlers to violence white settlers inflicted on Native Americans. He also went on to assert that Palestinians have a right to resist Israel which he described as a settler-colony formed out of conquest that is intent on building and maintaining a militaristic ethnostate by way of forcing Palestinians out of their homes and out of the state and replacing them with predominantly European Jewish people. If the Jews in Israel are indigenous, however, much of his argument falls apart. What percentage of Jews in Israel could be considered "indigenous"? Or are Jews actually white and no white can be considered "indigenous" except the Sámi and the ones in Russia? If the latter is the case, I will be sure to discuss it in my upcoming Village pump proposal. StellarHalo (talk) 04:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

At one point, the PLO basically stated that it would expel all Jews who arrived after 1917 (the year of the Balfour Declaration and the British conquest of the region from the Ottoman Turks). However, your question unfortunately is rather meaningless in some ways. For example, well over one million Israeli Jews either came from Arab countries (such as Iraq and Yemen) or descend from such immigrants. Are they supposed to return to those countries where they're not wanted, and where they were undeniably "indigenous", but from which their communities have been systematically ethnically cleansed?? There were Jews in Libya long before there were any Arabs there, but in 1967 about 99% of them were expelled from the country. And Israel is "militarized" because of constant Arab military threats against it, not to mention constant wannabe-genocidal rhetoric about throwing the Jews into the sea or similar... AnonMoos (talk) 10:35, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

From Palestinian Jews:

When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own."

The Palestinian National Charter, as amended by the PLO's Palestinian National Council in July 1968, defined "Palestinians" as "those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father—whether in Palestine or outside it—is also a Palestinian. The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians."

The article does not provide an answer to SH's bold question.

There is a degree of melting pot among Israeli Jews of different ethnic origins. It would be difficult to ascertain the identity of a descendant of both 19th-century Palestine Jews and recent arrivals. The article includes:

Actor, director and activist Juliano Mer-Khamis, the son of an Israeli Jewish mother and a Palestinian father, described himself in a 2009 interview with Israel Army Radio as "100 percent Palestinian Arab and 100 percent Jewish".

How indigenous would he be?

--Error (talk) 11:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Also the indigenousness of some Palestinians can be disputed. Famously, Yasser Arafat:

Arafat was born in Cairo, Egypt.[1929] His father, Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini, was a Palestinian from Gaza City, whose mother, Yasser's paternal grandmother, was Egyptian. Arafat's father battled in the Egyptian courts for 25 years to claim family land in Egypt as part of his inheritance but was unsuccessful.[...] Arafat was the second-youngest of seven children and was, along with his younger brother Fathi, the only offspring born in Cairo. Jerusalem was the family home of his mother, Zahwa Abul Saud, who died from a kidney ailment in 1933, when Arafat was four years of age. [...] Arafat's first visit to Jerusalem came when his father, unable to raise seven children alone, sent Yasser and his brother Fathi to their mother's family in the Moroccan Quarter of the Old City.

About this Moroccan Quarter:

It was set aside for "the benefit of all the community of the Maghreb of all description and different occupations, male and female, old and young, the low and the high, to settle on it in its residences and to benefit from its uses according to their different needs." Soon after, Jews, many also from North Africa, were also allowed to settle in the city. By 1303, Maghrebi people were well established there, a fact attested by the endowment of a Zāwiyah, or religious institution such as a monastery, made by 'Umar Ibn Abdullah Ibn 'Abdun-Nabi al-Maṣmūdi al-Mujarrad for this quarter. [...] Originally developed for Maghrebi people, over the centuries Jewish, Christian and Muslim people from Palestine and elsewhere had at various times taken up residence there. By the time Israel decided to demolish their houses, roughly half of the zone's inhabitants could trace their origins back to Maghreb immigrants.

Palestine Arabs moved around the Ottoman Empire according to their possibilities. They would be attached to their families and places rather than to an extended territory. The establishment of a Palestinian identity uniting Arab Christians and Arab Muslims from a certain territory is the result of nationalism in general, and Arab nationalism and Zionism in particular.

--Error (talk) 11:29, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

• Indigenous peoples is not a quantifiable concept that has a strict, bright-line definition. Typically indigenousness is defined by relation to a colonizing culture; it's a relational definition, not one based on a specific date or time or location, but based on the relationship between two cultures. For example, who is indigenous to the country of England? Well, the English people are. The English culture as we know it today really didn't become a thing until well into the High Middle Ages however. When the Norman conquest happened, there were no English. There was the Anglo-Saxon people, who were in some sense indigenous in relation to the Normans in the 11th century, and to the Danes in the previous centuries (i.e. Danelaw); but the Anglo-Saxon people were colonizers in relation to the native Celtic Britons, who would have been indigenous in that relation, however the Celts displaced an earlier culture, having only themselves arrived in Britain in the 1300s BCE or so. We can do these kinds calculations ad infinitum, because over history humans have been highly migratory, and culture is highly fluid as it changes and evolves over time. Ultimately, the most useful way to think about these things is "what is the relationship between these cultures". Are the cultures co-existing in the same space with an equal power relationship? Is one acting in a colonial relationship towards the other? Etc. The "Definitions" section of the above linked article on Indigenous peoples is informative here, to wit, "living descendants of pre-invasion inhabitants of lands now dominated by others. They are culturally distinct groups that find themselves engulfed by other settler societies born of forces of empire and conquest"." --Jayron32 21:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Instead of asking for a percentage of "indigenous" Jews, one might consider the somewhat complementary percentage of descendants of Jewish immigrants. However, this also runs into definitional issues. For example, should descendants of immigrants of the First Aliyah be counted? Their ancestors, at the time of the proclamation of the State of Israel, will mostly have been already second- or third-generation residents. The section Demographics of Israel § Jews gives the percentage of Israeli Jews whose "recent ancestral background" by paternal country of origin is Israel as 37% in 2008 and 44% in 2012. I do not see a definition of "recent".  --Lambiam 17:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Abraham-Louis Breguet

Please, can you upload on commons this file about his son: it's from here? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.13.89.132 (talk) 09:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The whole page or just the portrait? I believe uploading the page would be a breach of copyright. Alansplodge (talk) 14:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Just the portrait. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.161 (talk) 14:26, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

It's far to small to make a useable image, can you get a better one? I don't have access to the original, but try opening the page and press "print screen" (PrtScr) on your keyboard. BTW, we already have this image of Antoine-Louis Breguet if that helps. Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Then can you search for a new site about that book? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.161 (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I've uploaded a better version at commons:File:Antoine-Louis Breguet (2).jpg  --Lambiam 16:39, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much, If you have that site, can you see if there are other paintings about his father, his son, or their family that aren't on commons yet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.200.183 (talk) 18:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Completorium

The hours of prayer, taken over from the Jews, were Prime, Terce, Sext, None, and Vespers (Evensong). Later two more were added to bring them up to the magic number seven - Compline and Nocturns. The Latin name for Compline is completorium, i.e. it completes the devotions ("The last of the Canonical hours of prayer") [12]. It used to be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 around 11 PM on a Saturday night. All services at Canterbury Cathedral are live-streamed - Evensong is streamed daily at 5:30 PM. Every so often Will Adam comes on Twitter [13] to announce he is doing Compline at 5:00 PM, but it is always streamed at that time. Why does it precede Evensong? 92.19.172.198 (talk) 12:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

See Compline#Anglican usage. Evening Prayer (or Evensong if there's a choir) was originally an amalgam of the Catholic services of Vespers and Compline first published in the Book of Common Prayer during the Reformation in England. The canonical hours were replaced by the Daily Office in the BCP, which consisted of only two services, Morning and Evening Prayer. The Anglican version of Compline is a recent add-on which can be led by a lay person, and although recognised as a late-evening liturgy, there is no particular timing prescribed in it. I imagine that if a church were offereing both Evening Prayer and Compline, then Evening Prayer would indeed come first, but I don't think that often happens. The modern Compline is a quite brief affair which is probably better suited to a social media audience. The caveat is that I'm not a theologian, so I stand to be corrected on this. Alansplodge (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Where might one find Vardmyln?

In The compt buik of David Wedderburne a mention on page 141 is made of an Alexander Piersone, the husband of David's Sister-in-law to whom he gives a red gilded stirrups and girdle, as well a New Testament text. This passage also mentions that (as far as I understand it) this transaction took place either at Vardmyln or the package was delivered to Vardmyln by David. However I am not entirely sure on where Vardmyln might be. Searches seem to relate the term possibly to some scandanavian area, which could be plausible considering the wide range of Scottish diaspora at the time, but I cannot source and exact location. If anyone here might have an idea on where (or what, if I've been misled due to an error in my translation of the old text) this place might be Copter Faustus (talk) 12:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

On page 112 there's a reference to "the Vardmyln", on a page where another ship is named, so probably a ship not a place. 92.19.172.198 (talk) 13:12, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Not finding anything direct, but an Alexander Peirson was a Scottish MP at that time and held lands near Dundee, so perhaps the name of an estate there? Alansplodge (talk) 13:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that could be a possibility. Looking at that passage, in my head I'm currently translating that as "I lent George Auchinlek my wooden pint-sized flagon with the money (or possibly just the message to ask for them) to send to the Vardmyln for the vinegar there that I still want." Separating the word into "Vard" and "Myln" seems to bring up some results (Vard) (Mylne) from which my best guess is that it could be a place. There are various locations within dundee starting with Castle (Castle Street and Castle Terrace comes to mind for being close to the port area of Dundee). Copter Faustus (talk) 14:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The name also occurs in the variant spelling "Vardmylne" on page 108: "Ane obligatione maid be Henry Betoun wryttin and subscryvit be him and the gudeman of Ardowny and Alexander Peirsone of Vardmylne his cautioneris of j^e lib and 4 bollis meill of the dait the 26 and 27 October 1596 and subscryvit be Westhall Johne his brother".^[14]  --Lambiam 12:57, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Ardowny and Vardmylne are mentioned in one breath in that passage, which may suggest they were not located far apart from each other. Here, on page 178, Bamff charter 163, we read, "the teinds of the lands of Ardowny in the parish of Monyfuith", which I suppose corresponds to Monifieth in Angus, Scotland.  --Lambiam 13:31, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Wardmylne/Wardmilne/Wordmilns/Wardmills was also a place in the Forfar/Dundee/Perth regions under discussion here, mentioned repeatedly (with all these spellings) in the family records collected here. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:29, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Traditional clothing of Central Asia

What are the traditional clothing that men wear in Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan? Are they common? Donmust90 (talk) 15:46, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

See Central Asian clothing and Kazakh clothing. Alansplodge (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The Wikipedia categorization system is the most useful way to get answers to questions like this; Category:Clothing by ethnicity and Category:Clothing by country and Category:Clothing by culture are perhaps most useful here. --Jayron32 20:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

October 27

Russian Empire

Who was the police's head who arrested Lenin's older brother in 1887? And the supreme head of the Cossacks during the Jews' pogroms under Aleksandr III? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.168.131 (talk) 14:08, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the second question, I don't think there was a single unified group of Cossacks. There were the Kuban Cossacks of the Kuban Oblast (which today roughly corresponds to the Krasnodar Krai) and the Don Cossacks of the Don Host Oblast, (today roughly the disputed Donbas region of Ukraine). Surely they had leaders, but I can't find who the leader of the two hosts were at the times requested. Perhaps these links will lead you to some sources to research. --Jayron32 15:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the first question, thus and this and this have some additional details on the arrest, but do not list the arresting officer, nor the agency they worked for; I suspect they would have been officers of either the Okhrana or the Separate Corps of Gendarmes, which had an intertwined history in late 19th century Russia. Each of those sources have additional more detailed histories of Aleksandr Ulyanov's life where you might find more information. --Jayron32 16:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Number of lawyers, legal ops, paralegals by country

Reading Legal industry by country (not the best article we have...) I wondered:

• How many people work in legal services globally? by country? Including lawyers (members of the bar), non-lawyers, legal ops, paralegals, law librarians, etc. Both in law firms (private practice), corporate legal departments (in-house), and public bodies (local governments, public administrations, etc.).

A455bcd9 (talk) 17:22, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I can't find stats directly, but your best lead may be the International Bar Association. https://www.ibanet.org/ seems to be their main website. Perhaps that may give you a lead. --Jayron32 18:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Jayron32. Unfortunately, I can't find any data on their website. Also, they don't seem to represent all legal practitioners (for instance, notaries public don't seem to be part of the IBA). A455bcd9 (talk) 18:26, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. In several google searches, some of the reports by their "research" division kept turning up, I thought that might be the best shot for getting some statistics. Good luck. --Jayron32 18:29, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Maximilien de Robespierre

Please, can you search if exist paintings about his parents, paternal and maternal grandparents, or her sister Henriette, and upload them on commons? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.200.183 (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2022 (UTC)