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Below are the top 25 AfD discussions which are most urgently in need of attention from !voters. The urgency for each AfD is calculated based on various statistics, including current number of votes, time until closing date, number of times relisted, overall discussion length, etc. This page is updated by a bot roughly every 6 hours, and was last updated on 12:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC).

AfD	Time to close	Votes	Size (bytes)	Score
Greg Schiemer (2nd nomination)	3 months ago	4	6576	1534.95
Rouzbeh Rafie	3 months ago	0	7712	1497.96
Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi	3 months ago	1	4966	1380.31
Jeremy Curl	3 months ago	1	3692	1314.08
Evelina Bertoli	3 months ago	1	4443	1297.09
SDSS J082535.19+512706.3	3 months ago	4	2797	1292.72
Michael Ruane (poker player)	3 months ago	1	3072	1282.99
Kristian P. Lusardi	3 months ago	1	4012	1282.97
Premier Energies Limited	3 months ago	1	4529	1280.78
Christine Warnke	3 months ago	1	4410	1262.33
Covet Fashion	3 months ago	3	6854	1254.01
Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches	3 months ago	1	3896	1226.11
1993 TAC Cup season	3 months ago	0	8025	1213.06
Joshua Beckley	3 months ago	2	3185	1183.05
Shwan Attoof	3 months ago	0	4376	1161
Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)	3 months ago	2	5421	1138.73
Coach Trip series 8	3 months ago	3	3817	1132.82
Moon Kim (poker player)	3 months ago	3	3737	1132.62
James Shaw Jr.	3 months ago	1	2793	1129.4
Eight Sleep	3 months ago	3	4291	1111.66
Ilgar Ibrahimoglu	3 months ago	0	4098	1108.34
Swaroop Puranik (2nd nomination)	3 months ago	1	4768	1107.16
Steve Tappin	3 months ago	3	12806	1095.52
Moza Sultan Al Kaabi	3 months ago	2	4289	1030.16
Abdul Samad Dawood (2nd nomination)	3 months ago	11	20018	1020.79

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The result was no consensus‎. Discarding the indef blocked account and the SPA IP, we're left with no consensus either way. Owen× ☎ 19:41, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Greg Schiemer

AfDs for this article:

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Last AfD was no consensus. Renominating as per previous statement: Fails WP:MUSICBIO. Most of the supplied sources are not WP:SIGCOV about him LibStar (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

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Weak Delete. Links appear when you do a basic Google search. However as per nominator, I also think those may not meet WP:SIGCOV criteria. Prof.PMarini (talk) 00:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Already at AFD before so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep I think some of the sources given in the article can count as SIGCOV, and as long as you have some sources that are SIGCOV, that many of the sources are just trivial mentions make no difference to the subject's notability. I can also see his works being mentioned in books and journals - [1][2][3], while those may not be considered in-depth discussions of his works (but not quite trivial either), they do show that he is known enough to be considered someone noteworthy. Hzh (talk) 22:52, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep honestly, I don't see a big problem with the article. It seems to be a musical artist. It maintains reliable sources reasonably concise, unlike other articles that do not have it and is more verifiable. On the other hand, the content, at least in its current form, does not seem to me to be bad enough to remain on Wikipedia, perhaps that is precisely what gives it a more encyclopedic tone. --Alon9393 (talk) 16:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Weak Keep This one is definitely boarder line and could go either way. I think there are just enough RS references to justify keeping the article, but would not object if there was a consensus among editors to delete. Go4thProsper (talk) 06:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Final relist. I see this closing as a No consensus but as I closed the first AFD, I'll let another admin handle this one.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Supporting to keep the article as this artist fulfils the criteria under WP:NMUSICOTHER

He is a composer of a more experimental nature (rather than commercial) and is older, so there are fewer recent online references around his work. Much of his work seems to be focused on technology and creative development in experimental music, and there is scope to expand on his work and influences. 123.243.142.189 (talk) 02:52, 23 September 2024 (UTC)— 23.243.142.189 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

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The result was delete‎. Sourcing has been found to be insufficient depth and independence. Star Mississippi 01:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Rouzbeh Rafie

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Fails WP:COMPOSER. None of the sources here establish WP:GNG notability, either on account of not being independent (personal website, profile at Ulysses platform, which appears to allow self published pages, Ermes 404 a publisher of his music, an interview with Rafie), reliable (wordpress blog) or significant (pretty much all the other sources).

Criterion 3 of COMPOSER states that those who have written a composition that has won (or in some cases been given a second or other place) in a major music competition not established expressly for newcomers. may be notable, but none of the competitions he has won appear to be "major" (at the very least, they don't have Wikipedia articles) Mach61 23:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

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I added a few more reliable independent sources (e.g. Association of Iranian Contemporary Music Composers (ACIMC)).

In my opinion, Rafie meets criteria for Wikipedia:NMUSICOTHER, saying "Composers and performers outside mass media traditions may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria: Has composed a number of notable melodies, tunes, or standards used in a notable music genre."

The competitions are notable from my point of view, especially considering the small world of contemporary experimental (classical) music. E.G. a festival like MUSEQUAL https://www.kokonainenfestival.fi/?lang=en has a very good reputation, even without a wiki article Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 08:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

@Klaviermusikfan1972 None of the sources you added move the needle with regard to being independent and in-depth. (for example this is a profile on the website of an organization Rafie is a member of).

Rafie does not meet that criterion of NMUSICOTHER, because a "notable" composition is one that qualifies for an article, by having sources cover it. None of Rafie's originals have gotten that. Mach61 17:46, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Relisting, we need more participation here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

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I added another independen reliable source from the "Bach&Now Festival", where Rafie was chosen Artist-in-Residence. https://bachandnow.de/en/composer-in-residence/ Hopefully this will help to keep the article! Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 15:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Klaviermusikfan1972 This profile is written by Rafie (As “Composer in Residence” of the Bach & now! festival, I am thrilled to share my musical journey and artistic vision with you. Mach61 19:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

From my point of view, the fact that he was chosen artist in residence by the festival including three commissioned world premiere compositions, proofs that he is a notable composer. I checked the imprint, and Rafie is not a member of the festival board, festival founder or anything else. So it's at least an independent source. Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 20:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I was able to find some more independent secondary sources and added them to the article. https://aleph-fdn.com/directory/rouzbeh-rafie/ https://www.alexandra-sostmann.de/projects_e.html and an article from the italian newspaper "La Nazione" on winning the "Ennio Porrino Competition" and his composition "Chaconne". Hope this will help to prove that he is a serious composer and to keep the Wiki article! Thanks! Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 08:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

https://www.lanazione.it/grosseto/cronaca/premio-porrino-serata-finale-e-proclamazione-del-vincitore-rouzbeh-rafie-vn53mvj2 Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 09:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

@Klaviermusikfan1972 Aleph is an organization that organizes composing evens, including some Rafie participated in. Not independent. Alexandra Sostmann is a pianist who worked with Rafie; ibid.

I will grant that the La Nazione article is unambigiously an independent, reliable source, and though it doesn't discuss Rafie in much depth, it does seem to confirm that the Ennio Porrino is major for WP:COMPOSER purposes. With that being said, the notability criteria for musicians are not absolute (Please note that... meeting any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept), and for reasons explained below I still believe the article should be deleted.

One reason Wikipedia has notability criterion, as explained at WP:WHYN:

We require that all articles rely primarily on "third-party" or "independent sources" so that we can write a fair and balanced article that complies with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and to ensure that articles are not advertising a product, service, or organization. See Wikipedia:Autobiography for discussion of neutrality concerns of self-published sources.

Ultimately, it remains that there no entity independent of Rafie has bothered to cover his actions in any depth, meaning that any article about him must be based on his own word (that you've included a bunch of redundant biographies from affiliated organizations that are clearly based on his personal webpage doesn't change this fact). Mach61 23:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

I would like to emphasize once again that a large part of the article is not only based on biographical information, but is also clearly supported by additional independent sources:

Performances of his works at international festivals
Artist in Residence at international festivals
Awards at international composition competitions
Performances and recordings of his works by international artists
Publication of his works on international CD productions
Publication of his works in sheet music form

What kind of sources are otherwise required to independently verify certain stages in his biography? Does he have to submit his university diploma if a festival wants to publish his biography on the festival's website?

The article can certainly be improved! If there are passages that are not sufficiently sourced, the Wikipedia community can remove them, no problem. But I cannot understand at all the claim that Rafie does not have enough sufficient references to justify a Wikipedia article. Klaviermusikfan1972 (talk) 11:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Klaviermusikfan1972 An inependent source is simply one that isn't produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. I have exhaustively shown why almost none of the sources in the article are actually independent of Rafie, and will not bother to argue in circles about it. Mach61 02:52, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Virtually none of those qualify as secondary sources, which are required to show notability on Wikipedia. WP:SECONDARY:

A secondary source provides thought and reflection based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources.

CDs, sheet music, awards, performances, and musical recordings are all primary sources. Based on your argument, any person who has ever recorded music and put it on a CD would qualify for a Wikipedia article, and that's simply not how Wikipedia works. Left guide (talk) 13:16, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Delete per my comment above and Mach61's thorough analysis of the sources throughout this discussion. Left guide (talk) 13:25, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was redirect‎ to IIT Delhi. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 07:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi

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no non-primary sources found. Sohom (talk) 04:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Draftify it for now, need to add more independent sources. Xegma(talk) 04:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
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Redirect - to the associated educational institution. It's history will still be there in the unlikely event independent sources can be found. 4.37.252.50 (talk) 13:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

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Draftify that is still possible, it is not too late. Give the originator a chance to find true secondary sources. I think they should exist, but they might not be in english. Ldm1954 (talk) 22:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
The original creator has had two months to add such sources. Sohom (talk) 02:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

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You are right ! the sources might not be available in english , it might be available in hindi langugae which is the most common language in india 150.242.22.239 (talk) 11:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

some research papers were added in the reference, which are related to the central library of IIT delhi 103.27.10.106 (talk) 06:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Note: an IP editor (possibly Scntst0009 logged out?) has posted their response at the original creator's talk page instead of to this discussion.[4] I see an argument for the notability of the institution (IIT Delhi) but not for the library. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to IIT Delhi. It's kind of a nice article, but it just doesn't meet WP:NORG or WP:GNG. As @4.37.252.50 points out the history will still be there if sources emerge later.

All the inline cites are from primary or non-independent sources (i.e., IIT) other than the Business Standard article which doesn't mention the library. Three papers that were added do seem to move us some way forward but on closer inspection fall considerably short of the line:

DESIDOC Journal of Library & Information Technology seems to be from a non-predatory journal (at least it's on this list which claims to exclude predatory journals. It's significant coverage of the library. BUT it's written by two librarians at IIT.
Journal of Information and Knowledge is maybe from a non-predatory journal but it is more about a piece of software AND it's co-written by an IIT librarian
UCL article is about a visit to UCL by a representative of IIT and seems to be based on an interview. It's maybe good as a cumulative article where there was one longer piece of SIGCOV and some multiple shorter independent sources like this, but it's not enough on its own.

Oblivy (talk) 06:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to IIT Delhi per Oblivy. I was reluctant to !vote this because, like Oblivy, I think it looks like a nice article. But there isn't really a case for this being independently notable. GNG and NORG are not met, and the content reads like what you would find in the student handbook, but not an encyclopaedic article. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. I'd like to close this as Soft deletion but this article was previously at AFD (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy curl) so Delete it is. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Jeremy Curl

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Jeremy curl

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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete yes mostly the sections are unsourced. Xegma(talk) 03:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Have added sources and more about his recent film on AppleTV 31.217.244.67 (talk) 14:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was keep‎. RL0919 (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Evelina Bertoli

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Comment: I added several citations to the stub-article, and some content. There are dozens more articles at OAsport (it) over several years. I think she medalled 2nd in a 2020 championship [5], and another. On quick look, it seems she was the highest ranking rider for the Italy eventing team at Paris 2024, and you don't get to the Olympics unless you already have a good competition record. I'll take a closer look later when I have more time. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep: Dealing with Italian-only articles has been difficult, but I was able to find out some more information which I added to the article. From what I was able to find and understand, I would say that Bertoli likely meets notability standards regardless of my amateur attempts at rummaging through Italian articles. Still probably rated as a stub-level article, it is much improved over the version that was AfD'd. [6] ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep: The new changes pushes it past GNG. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:21, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:33, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

SDSS J082535.19+512706.3

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No significant or non-trivial coverage in media or studies, not in a catalogue of note, not visible to the naked eye, and not discovered before 1850. SkyFlubbler (talk) 15:10, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete: a quasar of no particular note. I could find no significant commentary. Non-notable. Praemonitus (talk) 16:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Delete, doesn't meet WP:NASTRO. 21 Andromedae (talk) 19:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to list of most massive black holes. The mass of the black hole on the quasar is known, but I am unable to find any significant coverage on the object itself. Galaxybeing (talk) 02:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Delete: per nomination, a failure of WP:NASTRO. Sir MemeGod  15:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete – Per above. Svartner (talk) 22:36, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 13:19, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Michael Ruane (poker player)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep Succeeds WP:BLP1E and quite possibly also WP:SPORTCRIT with two major cashes let alone being at the final table of the Main Event (the world's biggest poker tournament). PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep. These two sources provide plenty of sigcov. Additionally, the advice at WikiProject Poker suggests that poker players who win more than a million dollars in a single event at an established tournament are "generally notable". These sources from the article show that he won over $2.5 million in the 2016 WSOP $10,000 No Limit Hold'em Main Event. I believe this is enough to establish that Ruane is notable. P.S. I've copyedited the page, in case the extra spaces were bothering anyone. Toadspike [Talk] 09:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
This source from the dewiki article might also qualify as sigcov. Though much of the content is similar to the other two long sources, at first glance it isn't a straight copy/paste or summary of them. Toadspike [Talk] 09:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 15:26, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Kristian P. Lusardi

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:CRIMINAL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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~~Move~~ to Christian Lusardi and leave a redirect. More sources available when you search for his "other" name - Christian Lusardi. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC) (I'm striking your duplicate vote as I assume the most recent one is your current opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC))

PsychoticIncall, "Move" is not a possible AFD closure as it is an editing decision. If you are interested in that outcome, you have to vote to "Keep" and then have a Move discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep Plenty of sources at his "other" name. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete. The sources that use the name Christian Lusardi are already in the article, and there is nothing notable about them. A red-linked "scandal" during a red-linked tournament where a "semi-amateur poker player" committed a minor crime and received a minor sentence. Highly questionable to include this WP:BLP in an encyclopedia. Geschichte (talk) 05:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Delete: I agree with Geschichte; there is nothing notable about the subject, and it fails to meet WP:CRIMINAL and WP:SPORTCRIT. GrabUp - Talk 14:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

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The result was Draftify‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:18, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Premier Energies Limited

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The subject is receiving attention due to its recent IPO. Anyways, after searching for in-depth coverage from independent, reliable secondary sources, I was unable to find any. The cited sources are trivial, as per WP:ORGTRIV, and the subject does not meet the criteria outlined in WP:NCORP or WP:GNG. GrabUp - Talk 13:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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I have tried to find old news which are not for the IPO, that was before. It might be more coverage due to IPO but I guess we will get more and more updates in coming months as this a listed company now. Njoy deep (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Draftify the situation might change within a few months seeing the amount of coverage around the IPO. Broc (talk) 13:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Agree with the points, due to IPO many news are around that too. Njoy deep (talk) 12:28, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
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Delete: All I see are press releases, stock analysis/prediction reports, expansion plans and funding rounds, i.e., routine announcements. The sources fail the WP:SIRS check and the coverage around the IPO does not guarantee notability. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 20:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
This company has recently been in the news due to its IPO, with substantial media coverage spanning 30 pages of Google News. Notably, 95% of the news comes from reliable sources. Deleting this article isn't a valid option. While Draftify could be useful to some extent. Especially since I'm not able to build a policy-driven case for keeping this article, it's not the perfect solution either. Hitro talk 17:42, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus‎. ✗plicit 14:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Christine Warnke

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non-notable, subject has held several local, insiginficant and largely inconsequential appointments. Article reeks of puffery and edits by interested parties Bangabandhu (talk) 19:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep. I corrected one source and did searches online, and found lots of potential sources. The facts check out, for example her alumni award, White House arts commission, Real Estate commissioner for DC, hobnobbing, etc. She’s well known in the lobbying industry in the capital of the United States, and isn’t merely a local celebrity. Oddly, I can’t find a source confirming that she’s on the DNC. Bearian (talk) 11:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Alumni award is of no significance, neither is nomination to the real estate commission. She's got invited to some parties and was appointed to a board, all typical of white collar lawyers in DC. No in depth coverage exists in any single article and she's never done anything remarkable enough to merit a profile. She's not on the Democratic National Committee, she has a position on the DC Democratic State Committee, which is about as insignificant a position in local politics as exists. Bangabandhu (talk) 01:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was keep‎. asilvering (talk) 18:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Covet Fashion

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lacks significant coverage from reliable sources, failing to meet Wikipedia's notability standards. Loewstisch (talk) 13:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete VICE is major significant coverage, and I found additional SIGCOV here in this physical book, but Venture Beat seems more like an interview/primary source. I am not seeing GNG being passed here. If others discover more, I am willing to change my opinion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment - I was able to find this article from Fortune, but it requires a subscription to read so I'm unable to assess if it's significant coverage or not. I also found another interview from Venture Beat and short coverage from Bleeding Cool about a New York Fashion Week update - I don't think these really demonstrate notability but they may be useful for a 'development' section if article is kept. Waxworker (talk) 02:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
keep the coverage in Fortune appears to be an article solely on the topic. The Vice article is clearly above the WP:N bar. The Bleeding Cool one is probably above the bar for "significant". That's 2 or 3 sources, all of which are solely focused on the topic. The other sources have decent information, but appear to be press releases or otherwise primary. Hobit (talk) 14:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete Little significant coverage comfortably independent of the subject. The Fortune, VentureBeat and Vice articles provide significant coverage, but are interspersed closely with interviews and many read like profiles of the business achievements of their creator. The Fortune article reveals itself to be part of a "daily newsletter on the world’s most powerful women", and as you read you get the sense that all its information comes from the developer as the source, which flatters her immensely: "Like any good marketer, Ethington knows her product intimately". Gita Jackson of Vice recounts herself attending a Fashion Week event held by Covet and: surprise! Both she and Covet seem very keen to name drop sponsor fashion brand Badgley Mischka front and centre, as Fuchs says: "“I think Covet provides an opportunity for people to experience Badgley Mischka that wouldn’t otherwise have that opportunity". The other articles, like Bleeding Cool and Disney News, are ephemera around game updates. Needs something a little more evaluative and removed from the creators to suggest it's not held up by puff pieces. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- We agree that the coverage in those three sources is significant. Those sources are occasionally fawning but their coverage of the game is solidly over the bar AND found in mainstream media, something unusual for an app. We can add in things like [7] and lots of things like [8] (not in depth, but certainly showing the raw breadth of coverage). Hobit (talk) 19:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep - the sources identified from Waxworker and even Zxcvbnm should be more than enough to pass GNG. They're clearly in-depth, relevant and provide more than enough info to expand this article. Also, I mostly disagree with the assertion that the sources are of dubious independence. While some of them do contain various statements and information from the creators themselves, they're also interspersed with plenty of secondary coverage akin to actual journalism.

I think a pretty common misconception is that a source that uses primary info is inherently primary or non-independent in nature. Secondary sources are allowed to use these types of sources from a topic occasionally. What makes them truly secondary is the commentary and analysis of said sources, and I believe there's enough of both from the Fortune and Vice pieces to circumvent any concerns regarding their independence. Both sources clearly contextualize the game with the fashion industry while offering background info on the game's creation and creators. The Fortune piece may touch a bit more on the creator than the game, but it reveals pertinent and factual statements regarding its gameplay, style and freemium payment model, which is the type of encyclopedic coverage one would expect for any game.

Also, Gita Jackson is a fairly reputable gaming journalist. Though journalists can sometimes be influenced by the people and topics they cover, this article seems like a long-form piece of investigative journalism. She doesn't shy away from explaining the game in relation to negative aspects of the fashion industry: "I think that Covet is fun, but I don't know if it's good for me. My relationship to the fashion industry is complicated in that I love beautiful clothes but am both lazy and tend towards cynicism... an industry that has driven women to eating disorders... relies on sweatshops to create their garments... historically racist on the runway..." Another common misconception is that an article has to be overly negative or critical about a company or product in order to count towards NCORP. There's a difference between offering praise to a topic or person and glazing over them like a puff-piece does, and while I can see how one would assume the latter here, I think stuff like this proves that it walks towards the former side of the runway.

I've also yet to find evidence that the game's creators influenced these two publications such that they could cover the game in a fashionable light, akin to a truly non-independent source. It seems that there was editorial oversight that ensured the writers here had no vested interest in the game, its creators or the company itself.

Finally, if editors are still unconvinced, maybe a search on Google Scholar should be enough to prove it - like this solid scholarly source (may also need TWL to access). PantheonRadiance (talk) 22:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep sources per Waxworker and Hobit seem more than sufficient, but the scholarly source PantheonRadience found puts it WELL over the top, with extended scholarly attention to the game (I have access to full text via University, so could check). More than meets WP:GNG

Absurdum4242 (talk) 18:00, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches

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Article relys on a single source, article is strangely formatted and isn't consistent with other similar articles, case for WP:TNT so a proper List of New Zealand national rugby league team results can be created.

Previously PRODed, and was reverted on the basis that the article could be improved and that I as PRODed nominator had changed the name of the page. Yes, article could be improved, but there is virtually nothing novel or useful on this page so don't see why edit history needs retaining for a new article "List of New Zealand national rugby league team results". Articles name was changed to better reflect the article content. But in reality, it is so far away from the standard way to display a list of national team results that it's best to be deleted. To fix this page would involve removing 99% of the content anyway. Mn1548 (talk) 08:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete WP:NOTDB Traumnovelle (talk) 04:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 05:42, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

1993 TAC Cup season

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I am bundle-nominating all league season pages of the Talent League competition for deletion. This bundle incorporates the 25 articles listed below.

On balance, these articles fail WP:GNG. This competition does not garner the level of coverage or references about its seasons and results to justify having season-by-season articles. I include the italicised caveat because, as this is the main underage recruitment competition in Victoria, the league's players and structure do receive a decent amount of non-routine individual coverage, as a WP:BEFORE search will attest; but this coverage is all primarily focussed on the league's function as an under-aged talent pathway. The seasons themselves (i.e. who won/lost, grand finalists, etc.) receive only passing WP:ROUTINE coverage. I note also that 19 of the 25 articles (those from 2000–2018) are currently based entirely on a single database reference, and those which aren't are almost entirely from non-independent sources. I see no valid alternative to deletion and that all content worth saving is already found on the main Talent League page.

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are all part of the same bundle:

Aspirex (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

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Comment sorry, but that's way too much for me to work through to see if it needs deletion or not. WP:TRAINWRECK. Govvy (talk) 09:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Govvy: TRAINWRECK is a term for AfDs that cover many topics, but fail because the topics are too dissimilar – some are notable, others aren't. But surely any given TAC Cup season will be about as notable as the next? What makes you think TRAINWRECK applies here? – Teratix ₵ 02:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment it is possible that I did not make clear enough that these pages are all different seasons of the same competition with different sponsored names. Aspirex (talk) 05:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
  - Comment @Aspirex and Teratix: Because on my first look, I assumed the AfD was for two different leagues. I didn't say don't delete, I just felt it was too much on one AfD. Maybe splitting between two AfDs might have been easier to manage for some people such as myself. Govvy (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment there is a strong case for deletion on the face of it – I would be surprised if enough sources exist for individual seasons of a state-level underage development competition. The point Aspirex makes about TAC Cup coverage mainly focusing on individual players or general aspects of competition structure, not specific results, rings true to me. – Teratix ₵ 02:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
User:Aspirex, this AFD is not formatted correctly for a bundled nomination. You can't just write down a list of linked articles and consider them to be included in this nomination, our closing tool, XFDcloser will not recognize them as nominated articles. Please review the instructions at WP:AFD for nominating multiple articles and format this nomination correctly. No matter how this discussion is closed, this needs to happen. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- Liz (talk · contribs) Thanks. Did this edit fix it or have I still missed something? Aspirex (talk) 05:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Aspirex, everything looks good. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Sorry, I know from a closer's perspective it's frustrating to not have participants take a clear position, but frankly it would be very time-consuming to go through each season and exhaustively demonstrate no significant coverage exists. All I can do at this point is give my judgement as a user who has edited a fair amount in the area – based on my experience, probably the level of coverage is as Aspirex says it is. Perhaps soft delete, with no prejudice against someone who does find some coverage and wants to restart the pages? – Teratix ₵ 03:43, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was redirect‎ to 2015 World Series of Poker. The sole Keep !vote is an OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Owen× ☎ 21:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Joshua Beckley

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Redirect to 2015 World Series of Poker: Subject only has notable coverage due to WP:1E, and without any additional RS covering him this should be redirected as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep Other second-place finishers in the Main Event has qualified as notable (see f.e Steven Jones) and Beckley is atleast as notable as them. PsychoticIncall (talk) 08:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:57, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Shwan Attoof

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Doesn't meet WP:ACTOR, as there were few or no sources showing notability. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 22:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Shwan is well known film actor/director in Kurdistan/Iraq, the article could be stay. I added serval new references. Kushared (talk) 06:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Which references? Those aren't reliable per WP:RS. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

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Comment: The article has changed, with additional references that doesn't meet WP:RS. PUKmedia is unreliable as well as Kurdistanin, which is a blog. The Rudaw source doesn't show anything if not 'not found' (a bare link). The golden globes citation is a narration of a film with zero reference to the director or casts. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 15:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)

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Local elected officials are not notable through WP:NPOL, the one source listed is a run of the mill election report, which does not contribute to the subject passing WP:GNG. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep per WP:OFFICEHOLDER. The article is short and needs updating but is about a holder of a notable office who held the post for two terms. This discussion has been had on previous occasions, but do note that the office of police commissioners in the UK is different to that of a police commissioner in the United States. This is Paul (talk) 22:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

PCCs (including this one) have received significant press coverage, albeit often on a local level. A police constituency can cover a population of several hundred thousand, or even into the millions. Indeed, the population of the Staffordshire area is around 1.146 million. Compare that to a Member of Parliament, whose constituency contains roughly 76,000 people, and a London Assembly member, whose constituency covers less than a million. Consequently it is a notable post, and the holder of it is likely to attract ongoing media attention, thus making them notable. As I have said previously, the consensus at the time these offices were created was that they were notable in the same way we create articles for every MP, MSP, Member of the Senedd and so on. I've also suggested that perhaps what is needed is a wider debate on how we deal with articles about people who hold these posts. This is Paul (talk) 22:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing in NPOL that covers police and crime commissioners. AusLondonder (talk) 00:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

It's something we should address though because these articles get nominated for AfD from time to time, and there's no clear guidelines for them. While they're not at the level of MPs they're also not at the level of local councillors. This is Paul (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

delete per WP:OFFICEHOLDER. A police commissioner at this level is unlikely to attract coverage beyond routine spokesbeing reporting, and there's no claim of that in the article. Possibly he could be redirected to the list of officeholders if must but personally I'm not inclined to take AtD as a requirement. Mangoe (talk) 22:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete. Routine local news coverage, mostly reporting things Ellis said or positions his office has taken rather than anything about him, is not sufficient for NPOL. JoelleJay (talk) 16:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 22:00, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Coach Trip series 8

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Has been tagged as unsourced for over a decade. No objection if anyone merges it to Coach trip but it does not seem notable enough to deserve its own article Chidgk1 (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep: WP:SPLITLIST applies. Every of the 18 series has a page. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
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Delete Wikipedia:NOTDATABASE An endless list of nothing. Pallikari ap' ta Sfakia 17:36, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep for technical merrits. Either all CT series should be deleted, or (preferably) all should be merged into a kind of episode list. There's no point in singling this page out. – sgeureka ^t•c 07:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎ as no ATD has been identified Star Mississippi 22:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Moon Kim (poker player)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete Not relevant at the moment. Alon9393 (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep The winner of one of the most prestigious poker tournaments on the WPT tour. PsychoticIncall (talk) 12:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete does not provide enough independent, verifiable sources that demonstrate his long-term notability in the poker community --Moarnighar (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment Is there an appropriate target article this one could be Redirected to? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
@Liz I'm not seeing any possible ATD. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:00, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was keep‎. No consensus exists to delete; the possibility of a merger has been raised, but should be discussed in the appropriate venue. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

James Shaw Jr.

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James Shaw Jr. should be deleted because he does not meet Wikipedia's notability threshold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Praiawart (talk • contribs) 16:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 24. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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Keep - The shooting itself, the saving of lives, and the subsequent awards and honors are the notability. I think it's worthy of keeping. Whether or not there needs to be editing might be a POV of how a person reads this. — Maile (talk) 00:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment. The way to fix this article so that it doesn't read like a straight violation of WP:1E (notable for only one event) would be to add more detail about Shaw did afterwards. We find out that he gets a lot of awards - OK. But the article doesn't tell us anything about what Shaw did with his fame, except for "consider" running for mayor of Nashville. Tell us what he's been saying publicly – has he taken any position on crime, police, or gun control, for example? Are there any reliable secondary sources discussing his life outside of the one big event and what he's been up to? Cielquiparle (talk) 04:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep - there’s ongoing coverage after his one famous act. Bearian (talk) 02:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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Merge: to the article about the shooting. This individual is only notable for that event, nothing terribly notable about them otherwise. This article has more about the shooting/event than about him as a person. Went to school and got a job, six lines or so, then almost half a page about the event. Oaktree b (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 02:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Eight Sleep

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Clearly a soft "infomercial" on WP that is not notable. Normchou ^💬 20:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep: Sources 7 and 12 are product reviews, that don't appear to be paid promotional items. Why PC Mag is reviewing a bedding system is beyond me, but they're both RS per Source Highlighter, so are fine. I think we can establish notability with these and the other sources given. Oaktree b (talk) 20:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The topic is the company - the product reviews don't provide any in-depth "Independent Content" about the company. I'd also add that both those websites earn commissions from clicking on links, so not as independent as you might think at first, the websites are motivated to promote both the reviews and the click-thru traffic. HighKing⁺⁺ 11:10, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep. Needs a bit of cleanup but I think the product is notable enough. Pablo (talk) 12:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Delete This is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. I'm unable to identify any references that meet the criteria for establishing notability of the *company*. If someone believes the product is notable and wants to write an article about the product is is likely going to be under a different named article. HighKing⁺⁺ 11:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Relisting. Which sources help establish WP:NCORP?
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I should probably start that topic at RSN I keep on not getting around to, but at present, I am still disinclined to accept affiliate marketing as satisfying ORGIND, and would therefore also recommend against an article on any of the products of this company, not having found any references meeting the criteria for those. Similarly, I could not find any qualifying coverage for the company itself, so I will have to go with delete. Alpha3031 (t • c) 10:56, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Final relist.
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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 13:48, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Ilgar Ibrahimoglu

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An article with no encyclopedic value and for PR purposes only. Redivy (talk) 15:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

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Comment - Is this the same Ilgar Ibrahimoglu who was the subject of coverage about his detention in Azerbaijan? [9] [10] [11] This might contribute to notability. LizardJr8 (talk) 22:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

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Ilgar Ibrahimoglu is public person.

Accoring to the The Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Center, Jordan, Ilgar Ibrahimoglu was among the most 500 hundred influential muslims in the world.

https://sia.az/az/news/interesting/322588.html

https://themuslim500.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/TheMuslim500-2010-low.pdf 77.244.118.197 (talk) 11:55, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

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Ilgar Ibrahimoglu is a well-known scholar, his publications are in the famous academic journals and citated.

https://scholar.google.com/ 77.244.118.197 (talk) 12:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 02:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Swaroop Puranik

AfDs for this article:

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Doesn't meet WP:NDIRECTOR or WP:FILMMAKER. Awarded or recognised by the governor doesn't highly show any impact tones career and fails WP:ANYBIO. While we expect to see notable films he directed, there appears bit promotional and likely COI creation.

Citing unreliable sources (WP:REFBOMB for a non notable film, Journey of a Queen, shows no WP:SIGCOV for his major work, hence doesn't meet WP:GNG. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 23:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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I have removed the promotional content from this article now its clear Dgtrox (talk) 19:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Appears to be resume and WP:PROMO based page. Fails notability. The entrepreneur and his achievements are not notable that is significant, interesting, or unusual enough to be worthy of notice. RangersRus (talk) 15:24, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Relisting, not eligible for Soft Deletion.
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Delete. I'm just seeing paid coverage here, or articles that aren't really about him in any way. -- asilvering (talk) 02:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was keep‎. Closing as keep per consensus that NAUTHOR is met. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Steve Tappin

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The subject appears to be a non-notable individual, lacking significant coverage in reliable sources that establish notability. Most of the sources cited in the article and on the talk page are passing mentions, interviews, primary, routine coverage, or hearsay, none of which provide in-depth coverage. The article fails to meet WP:GNG, WP:NBIO, and WP:NAUTHOR. Additionally, off-wiki evidence suggests potential undisclosed paid editing and sockpuppetry. GSS ^💬 13:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

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Keep in the talkpage of this article there are lot of significant coverages. Xegma(talk) 03:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Xegma Do you really research on topics or just go on voting 'delete' at AfDs? Did you check the talk page of this article? There are significant coverage in China Daily and The Telegraph and all are present in the talk page. Even nominator failed to do WP:BEFORE. Unless it is a UPE issue, there is no reason to delete. It is a Keep. Hitro talk 21:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
The articles you are referring to seem to be paid promotional pieces, structured as interviews, which often include sections like "bio" and "CV" at the end of the article—something rarely found in genuine editorial news. It's a common feature of sponsored content. Additionally, the Telegraph article lacks an author byline, which raises questions about whether it was even produced by their editorial team. GSS ^💬 03:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
The China Daily article, the one I am referring to, was written by Andrew Moody. I hope you are not implying that Andrew Moody, a renowned journalist and recipient of the Friendship Medal (China) from the Chinese government, was just an editor of paid promotional pieces.

The Telegraph article, which is almost 16 years old, appears to be written by Dominic White and must have been published on the old format of the website of The Telegraph which was significantly different from current one. Please check the other articles of same years, you won't find author bylines.

Apart from those, I also see WP:SIGCOV in this, a South China Morning Post article.

I see that this BLP article was created on Wikipedia in 2008 and being nominated for deletion now due to some recent UPE activities. IMO, it's more appropriate to restore the best version of the article rather than delete it entirely. If you have a case that this has been a UPE product from the start then I'll rest my case. Hitro talk 15:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
HitroMilanese, I respect your expertise, but I must point out that all the articles you've mentioned are essentially interviews, which do not meet the standards of independent sources required by WP:GNG. For instance, the China Daily article explicitly states in the second paragraph, "Steve Tappin says," while the Telegraph article includes phrases like "But Tappin, whom I meet" and "Talking to him, it almost seems..." Similarly, the South China Morning Post piece follows the same pattern. These sources rely heavily on hearsay and fail to meet the criteria for WP:IS.

Regarding the absence of a byline in The Telegraph, I managed to find many articles, both older and from the same time period (even 2008), with proper author attribution, such as this. It's unfair to say the byline is missing simply because it could have been published in an older format of the website, where bylines were not prominently displayed.

Additionally, the article was created by a single-purpose account (SPA) with no contributions outside this topic. Given the subject's history of hiring freelancers to update his article, it is highly likely that the SPA either has a conflict of interest or was hired to create this article. GSS ^💬 06:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
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Comment : I am posting on behalf of Steve Tappin, so I assume my vote would not count, but I just wanted to bring to your attention that Mr. Tappin meets the criteria for WP:AUTHOR, WP:BASIC and WP:ENT. As WP:AUTHOR, if there are multiple reviews of his work he would qualify. Below are some links to his book reviews
https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/books-special-steve-tappin-tells-us-secret/article/845739 - book review
https://timesnewsgroup.com.au/geelongtimes/living/renowned-authors-to-share-secrets-on-personal-development/ - Book review
https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-85788-513-2 - The Secrets of CEOs - Book Review
https://kimtasso.com/book-review-the-awareness-code-the-secrets-to-emotional-empowerment-for-incredible-leadership-by-wayne-linton-and-steve-tappin/ - Book Review (Even tough this is a blog, the original article is from February 2022 edition of Professional Marketing magazine, as stated
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/m/eduonline/2009-11/23/content_9103252.htm - Book Review, contains quotations, but about half the article is original journalist commentary

In addition WP:BASIC states that “If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability;” Tappin has over 40 articles online as you can also see some posted in the tal page. Also the following article is in depth:

https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/vGunLo5swZ5apoTkVPeZcK/Steve-Tappin--The-author-spills-his-secrets.html - very indepth

Finally, as per WP:ENT he would qualify because he was the host of BBC TV show CEO GURU for a long time - over two years - and has been on at least 30 episodes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fuzzsoth (talk • contribs) 23:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further thoughts on the sources presented above?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: An assessment of the newly discovered sources would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Weak keep the book reviews above and ones I found seem good for him to pass WP:NAUTHOR. Some of the other stuff looks promising but I haven't evaluated that as much. I found some more sources on ProQuest.

hysterically, one of the sources accuses him of having his wikipedia entry edited. We have come full circle PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, PARAKANYAA, which one is that? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:42, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Liz It's from the Evening Standard (admittedly a British tabloid, so take with a grain of salt, but I think it's funny), 24 October 2012:

"STEVE Tappin -- an erstwhile headhunter and one-time author who now styles himself as a "CEO coach", was caught out three years ago by a City blog which wondered if he had sexed up his Wikipedia entry.

The collaboratively-edited online encyclopedia then stated that Tappin was a mentor to some of the top names in British business including Sir Terry Leahy and Andy Haste -- then bosses of Tesco and RSA, respectively -- only for the companies to quickly distance themselves from Tappin's claims. The entry was subsequently toned down." Then it goes on to say something about the book and his Twitter. PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. They are probably referring to the editor Fuzzsoth who commented here and on the article talk page and on several user talk pages. I see so many articles like this about "consultants", I'm surprised to see the support for this one but the consensus is, what it is. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep subject meets WP:NAUTHOR based on presented sources and meets WP:ENT as a host of past TV show on BBC.Mysecretgarden (talk) 23:34, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus‎ and no indication of further input Star Mississippi 14:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Moza Sultan Al Kaabi

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I don't believe she meets the notability criteria, as almost all sources only mention her death in a car accident. And the page was created three days after her death. فيصل (talk) 15:59, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Delete lack significant coverages about her works and yes maximum sources are about her death. Xegma(talk) 17:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Keep The subject of the article is notable per WP:ONEEVENT - the first Emarati woman to become an orthopedic surgeon.--jojo@nthony (talk) 03:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
(Comment made after relisting.) Before I assess the sources myself, I must point out that this is not how ONEEVENT works. First, ONEEVENT says that people notable for only one event are generally not notable. Second, ONEEVENT applies to people notable for a single event (which could also be notable), not to people notable for a single achievement. Being the first female Emirati orthopedic surgeon is a claim to notability; sources are still needed to show that she is notable. Toadspike [Talk] 13:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

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The result was redirect‎ to Dawood Hercules Corporation without prejudice against selective merge. Discarding the canvassed (COI? sock?) votes, and those not addressing the fundamental sourcing issue, I see a clear consensus not to keep this as a standalone article. Owen× ☎ 20:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Abdul Samad Dawood

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Samad Dawood

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Little has changed in his fortunes since the last AFD eight months ago. He's still a successful and civic-minded businessman from a prominent Pakistani business family, and has worked at a high level for some notable companies. But on Wikipedia, notability is not inherited. I couldn't find SIGCOV of him in English or Urdu, just passing mentions in articles about the companies and organisations he's worked for, nothing to bring it up to the standard of WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Wikishovel (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

Comment: If only he had appeared in a few dramas, even in tiny roles, his BLP might have been easily saved from deletion under WP:NACTOR! But it’s ironic that someone so important in Pakistan's business community doesn’t have enough coverage that meets GNG. Anyway, I’ll hold off on voting for now. PS. No offense to the nominator Wikishovel, who also has legitimate reasons for taking it to AFD. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Delete: Still not a slam dunk; outside of the Engro connection, there are no RS that discuss him and we only have source 13 that is helpful. Rest are yellow per Source Highlighter, so of moderate reliability. I still don't see/find much else we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The article follows the guidelines of WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV as it demonstrates significant coverage in both Pakistani and international media, meeting WP:RS. As per WP:BASIC, “People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.[6]” Please feel free to check the sources, they meet all the mentioned criteria. Crosji (talk) 07:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Keep Reuters is RS.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 14:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The Reuters reference is indeed a reliable source, but that article is a summarised interview, and interviews are WP:Primary sources. Wikishovel (talk) 07:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Delete non-notable obscure business executive. Already deleted under Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samad Dawood. I suggest to WP:SALT the topic because Dawood family won't stop paying these UPEs. 188.31.32.162 (talk) 20:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: This statement clearly violates WP:AFDEQ by making personal remarks about the subject. Given this user's anonymity, it could potentially be part of a coordinated attack, possibly even Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry.
Crosji (talk) 08:13, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
Delete. Non-notable at this time. The sources that are not not primary/self-published, Reuters, Financial Post, The News, can be considered trivial mentions at most, but not significant coverage about Dawood. These sources are a better proof of notability for the corporation, Engro, not for Dawood himself. Prof.PMarini (talk) 08:31, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
Keep this is WP:V and there exist WP:NEXIST 202.141.250.250 (talk) 11:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)— 202.141.250.250 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation because he's prominent businessman serving on the board of various companies under Dawood Hercules Corporation. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 14:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
~~Keep~~ The references for this article are strong, even for a stub. The subject is a notable businessman in Pakistan with occasional public appearances. His notability is supported by coverage from reputable national newspapers and some international outlets. The first deletion discussion, with only one vote for deletion, appeared premature. Hence the new article has been improved with additional sources. While contributions are welcome, the arguments for deletion are not in line with policy. -Crosji (talk) 06:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 07:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

~~Keep~~: While there may not be extensive media coverage, the subject is undoubtedly an influential figure in Pakistan’s business community, as highlighted by Saqib and others above. The significance is evident through the inclusion in government advisory groups and recognized contributions. The cited sources, including interviews with reputable, independent global media, further reinforce the prominence. Instead of debating the subject’s notability, efforts would be better spent refining and improving the article.

202.141.250.250 (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep: The sources are solid. The fact that there is coverage from independent national newspapers support notability.
119.155.63.175 (talk) 16:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)— 119.155.63.175 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Note: Closing admin should disregard some IP votes, as it appears that canvassing may be influencing the outcome. --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I still don't see a consensus (even after disregarding second "votes" that were cast). A source review could be helpful as well as arguments based in policy. Opinions, both pro and con, based on who he is related to, are not useful to an AFD discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation. I was in the process of closing as such, but as we edit conflicted will just leave this as a !vote. He does not merit a standalone, but the target makes sense. Protect if needed against disruptive recreation. Star Mississippi 22:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Comment here's a source assessment, as suggested by Liz above in the relisting comment:

**Source assessment table: prepared by User:Wikishovel**
Source	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Karachi School of Business & Leadership, "Mr. Abdul Samad Dawood"[12]	profile page from a university of which he's on the board of governors	✘ No
Engro Corporation "Engro Corporation 1H 2021 Results" [13]	A press release by his employer announcing compamy results, mentions him briefly in one paragraph	✘ No
The Express Tribune "Summit highlights importance of girls’ education" [14]	Routine coverage of the International Women Leaders Summit, where he's mentioned in passing as an attendee	✘ No
The Express Tribune "Corporate Corner"	a photo of six CEOs and CFOs at a conference, with Dawood and the other five mentioned in passing in the caption	✘ No
Financial Post "Pakistan's Engro Looks To Invest In Other Developing Nations"	an article about Engro, with several quotes from an interview with Dawood	✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Resignation of Director" [15]	Formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation from Cyan in 2014	✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Board Meeting - Election of Chairman and appointment of CEO, CFO and Company Secretary"[16]	Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's election as chairman of Cyan in 2022	✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Change of CEO" [17]	Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's appointment as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2014	✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Appointment of CEO" [18]	Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2016	✘ No
Business School Lausanne "PEBBLES (PVT) Ltd.: “Building Hopes” " [19]	Case study by a business school on a subsidiary company of Dawood Hercules, where Samad Dawood is mentioned in three places as the parent company's CEO, e.g. " the organization’s sustainability perspective and the journey it took to transform the dream of Mr. Samad Dawood, the CEO of Dawood Hercules Corporation, into a reality"	✘ No
The Express Tribune "Dutch company acquires Engro Foods for $446.81m"[20]	Article about another company taking over Engro Foods, with a quote from Dawood from the Engro press release.	✘ No
Reuters "Pakistani conglomerate Engro looks to go global, its main investor says" [21]	Interview with Dawood about Engro, primary source	✘ No
Pakistan Today " "Engro's Rs60 billion question" [22]	Article about the company, with several quotes from Dawood and some analysis of his role, meets SIGCOV.	✔ Yes
Khaadi "Abdul Samad Dawood"[23]	A short director profile by his employer, primary source.	✘ No
Pakistan Business Council "About PBC"[24]	Simply lists him as a board member.	✘ No
Hub Power Company "Annual Report 2016"[25]	Annual report simply lists him as a board member, with a short bio.	✘ No
Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited "Annual Report 2008"[26]	Annual report simply lists him as director, with a short bio.	✘ No
The News International "In rare visit, top Pakistani business leaders meet US officials"[27]	Routine coverage of a trade delegation to the US, mentions him in passing as one of the eight members.	✘ No
The Nation (Pakistan) "Inaugural meeting of Industrial Advisory Council held"[28]	Routine coverage of a government-backed business conference, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending.	✘ No
Pakistan Today "Govt establishes Industry Advisory Council to develop industrial policy"[29]	More routine coverage of the government-backed business conference above, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending.	✘ No
WWF–Pakistan "Annual report 2012"[30]	Listed on p. 56 in the list of board members	✘ No
Business Recorder "WWF-P holds awards ceremony"[31]	Routine coverage of awards ceremony, briefly mentions Dawood and another member getting certificates of appreciation	✘ No
ABC News (United States) "Titanic submersible victim’s deaths ‘brought the world together,’ Dawood family member says"[32]	Short interview with Samad Dawood on his grief following his brother's death in an accident, primary source. (Please see article for full URL: source assessment template doesn't work with full YouTube links with separators.)	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Wikishovel (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Comment: I have just added an additional source from Bloomberg.com, a reputable and independent news outlet, further strengthening the subject’s notability. The table is impressive, though I am unclear why some quotes are not considered significant coverage, as they seem to meet GNG criteria:

- The Reuters article is based on a direct interview with the subject.

- The 2016 Express Tribune article by Salman Siddiqui, from one of Pakistan’s leading English-language newspapers, features prominent quotes from the subject.

- Additionally, a university case study is inherently independent, so I wonder why this is being questioned. Crosji (talk) 11:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Delete Not every single businessman from Pakistan becomes notable just for being involve in a business inside Pakistan. BLP lacks significant coverage in reliable sources and by looking at image it seems it is a case of COI. 39.34.141.22 (talk) 09:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Not sure why you haven't logged in yet, especially since you seem to have a deeper understanding than the average user. Check THIS VIDEO out to see that the involvement extends beyond Pakistan. - Crosji (talk) 10:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Agree with Wikishovel's table above - I think Profit's article is about Engro so I would not count it as significant coverage about Dawood (I only found a few quotes from him in that article). 202.47.50.250 (talk) 04:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I am truly impressed by the expertise and subtlety of this contribution. It appears, however, that this necessitates you remaining anonymous and refraining from responding to my comments, which is quite unfortunate. Crosji (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Procedural relist to rescue lost AfD
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep Article is notable enough to meet WP:GNG Tesleemah (talk) 16:14, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep – Article has sufficient WP:PRIMARY and meets the criteria of WP:GNG

221.120.201.170 (talk) 05:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC) — 221.120.201.170 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Delete per nom. UPE concerns are real and definitely hired guns using new accounts are voting keep here. @Wikishovel:'s analysis is fine. 185.189.253.223 (talk) 11:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC) — 185.189.253.223 (talk) has made only anonymous edits suggesting the removal of this and a few other topics.
Pinging all participants of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samad Dawood which resulted in delete: @Nosebagbear:, @MelvinHans:, and @Bearian:. 185.189.253.223 (talk) 11:36, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
Merge per the analysis by Wikishovel. Thanks for the ping. Only one source contributes to the subject’s notability, yet several sources add to the company’s notability. Bearian (talk) 17:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 __NOTOC__
-Below are the top 25 [[WP:AFD|AfD]] discussions which are most urgently in need of attention from !voters.  The urgency for each AfD is calculated based on various statistics, including current number of votes, time until closing date, number of times relisted, overall discussion length, etc.  This page is updated by a [[User:Cyberbot I|bot]] roughly every 6 hours, and was last updated on 06:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC).
+Below are the top 25 [[WP:AFD|AfD]] discussions which are most urgently in need of attention from !voters.  The urgency for each AfD is calculated based on various statistics, including current number of votes, time until closing date, number of times relisted, overall discussion length, etc.  This page is updated by a [[User:Cyberbot I|bot]] roughly every 6 hours, and was last updated on 12:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC).
 {|class="wikitable"
@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
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-|[[#Greg Schiemer |Greg Schiemer (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240905233820}}||4||6576||0||'''1518.97'''
+|[[#Greg Schiemer |Greg Schiemer (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240905233820}}||4||6576||0||'''1534.95'''
 |-
-|[[#Rouzbeh Rafie|Rouzbeh Rafie]]||{{Time ago|20240909232537}}||0||6927||0||'''1481.96'''
+|[[#Rouzbeh Rafie|Rouzbeh Rafie]]||{{Time ago|20240909232537}}||0||7712||0||'''1497.96'''
 |-
-|[[#Healthera |Healthera (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240911081758}}||0||3662||0||'''1403'''
+|[[#Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi|Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi]]||{{Time ago|20240911042814}}||1||4966||0||'''1380.31'''
 |-
-|[[#Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi|Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi]]||{{Time ago|20240911042814}}||1||4966||0||'''1364.33'''
+|[[#Jeremy Curl|Jeremy Curl]]||{{Time ago|20240912023722}}||1||3692||0||'''1314.08'''
 |-
-|[[#Jeremy Curl|Jeremy Curl]]||{{Time ago|20240912023722}}||1||3692||0||'''1298.09'''
+|[[#Evelina Bertoli|Evelina Bertoli]]||{{Time ago|20240912081433}}||1||4443||0||'''1297.09'''
 |-
-|[[#Evelina Bertoli|Evelina Bertoli]]||{{Time ago|20240912081433}}||1||4443||0||'''1281.11'''
+|[[#SDSS J082535.19+512706.3|SDSS J082535.19+512706.3]]||{{Time ago|20240909151049}}||4||2797||0||'''1292.72'''
 |-
-|[[#SDSS J082535.19+512706.3|SDSS J082535.19+512706.3]]||{{Time ago|20240909151049}}||4||2797||0||'''1276.72'''
+|[[#Michael Ruane (poker player)|Michael Ruane (poker player)]]||{{Time ago|20240912130243}}||1||3072||0||'''1282.99'''
 |-
-|[[#Michael Ruane (poker player)|Michael Ruane (poker player)]]||{{Time ago|20240912130243}}||1||3072||0||'''1267'''
+|[[#Kristian P. Lusardi|Kristian P. Lusardi]]||{{Time ago|20240912130015}}||1||4012||0||'''1282.97'''
 |-
-|[[#Kristian P. Lusardi|Kristian P. Lusardi]]||{{Time ago|20240912130015}}||1||4012||0||'''1266.99'''
+|[[#Premier Energies Limited|Premier Energies Limited]]||{{Time ago|20240912134832}}||1||4529||0||'''1280.78'''
 |-
-|[[#Premier Energies Limited|Premier Energies Limited]]||{{Time ago|20240912134832}}||1||4529||0||'''1264.78'''
+|[[#Christine Warnke|Christine Warnke]]||{{Time ago|20240912194804}}||1||4410||0||'''1262.33'''
 |-
-|[[#Abhishek Malhan |Abhishek Malhan (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240911043024}}||2||4343||0||'''1264.12'''
+|[[#Covet Fashion|Covet Fashion]]||{{Time ago|20240910135444}}||3||6854||0||'''1254.01'''
 |-
-|[[#Christine Warnke|Christine Warnke]]||{{Time ago|20240912194804}}||1||4410||0||'''1246.35'''
+|[[#Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches|Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches]]||{{Time ago|20240913080405}}||1||3896||0||'''1226.11'''
 |-
-|[[#Covet Fashion|Covet Fashion]]||{{Time ago|20240910135444}}||3||6854||0||'''1238.03'''
+|[[#1993 TAC Cup season|1993 TAC Cup season]]||{{Time ago|20240913221025}}||0||8025||0||'''1213.06'''
 |-
-|[[#Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches|Summary of New Zealand national rugby league team test matches]]||{{Time ago|20240913080405}}||1||3896||0||'''1210.11'''
+|[[#Joshua Beckley|Joshua Beckley]]||{{Time ago|20240912125810}}||2||3185||0||'''1183.05'''
 |-
-|[[#1993 TAC Cup season|1993 TAC Cup season]]||{{Time ago|20240913221025}}||0||8025||0||'''1197.09'''
+|[[#Shwan Attoof|Shwan Attoof]]||{{Time ago|20240914222531}}||0||4376||0||'''1161'''
 |-
-|[[#Joshua Beckley|Joshua Beckley]]||{{Time ago|20240912125810}}||2||3185||0||'''1167.06'''
+|[[#Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)|Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)]]||{{Time ago|20240912210736}}||2||5421||0||'''1138.73'''
 |-
-|[[#Shwan Attoof|Shwan Attoof]]||{{Time ago|20240914222531}}||0||4376||0||'''1145'''
+|[[#Coach Trip series 8|Coach Trip series 8]]||{{Time ago|20240912125816}}||3||3817||0||'''1132.82'''
 |-
-|[[#Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)|Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)]]||{{Time ago|20240912210736}}||2||5421||0||'''1122.74'''
+|[[#Moon Kim (poker player)|Moon Kim (poker player)]]||{{Time ago|20240912131012}}||3||3737||0||'''1132.62'''
 |-
-|[[#Coach Trip series 8|Coach Trip series 8]]||{{Time ago|20240912125816}}||3||3817||0||'''1116.85'''
+|[[#James Shaw Jr.|James Shaw Jr.]]||{{Time ago|20240914161039}}||1||2793||0||'''1129.4'''
 |-
-|[[#Moon Kim (poker player)|Moon Kim (poker player)]]||{{Time ago|20240912131012}}||3||3737||0||'''1116.63'''
+|[[#Eight Sleep|Eight Sleep]]||{{Time ago|20240912200245}}||3||4291||0||'''1111.66'''
 |-
-|[[#James Shaw Jr.|James Shaw Jr.]]||{{Time ago|20240914161039}}||1||2793||0||'''1113.41'''
+|[[#Ilgar Ibrahimoglu|Ilgar Ibrahimoglu]]||{{Time ago|20240915155127}}||0||4098||0||'''1108.34'''
 |-
-|[[#Eight Sleep|Eight Sleep]]||{{Time ago|20240912200245}}||3||4291||0||'''1095.68'''
+|[[#Swaroop Puranik |Swaroop Puranik (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240914234259}}||1||4768||0||'''1107.16'''
 |-
-|[[#Ilgar Ibrahimoglu|Ilgar Ibrahimoglu]]||{{Time ago|20240915155127}}||0||4098||0||'''1092.35'''
+|[[#Steve Tappin|Steve Tappin]]||{{Time ago|20240912135541}}||3||12806||0||'''1095.52'''
 |-
-|[[#Swaroop Puranik |Swaroop Puranik (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240914234259}}||1||4768||0||'''1091.16'''
+|[[#Moza Sultan Al Kaabi|Moza Sultan Al Kaabi]]||{{Time ago|20240914155928}}||2||4289||0||'''1030.16'''
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-|[[#Steve Tappin|Steve Tappin]]||{{Time ago|20240912135541}}||3||12806||0||'''1079.52'''
+|[[#Abdul Samad Dawood |Abdul Samad Dawood (2nd nomination)]]||{{Time ago|20240830171620}}||11||20018||0||'''1020.79'''
 |}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg Schiemer (2nd nomination)}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rouzbeh Rafie}}
-{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Healthera (2nd nomination)}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Central Library, Indian Institute of Technology Delhi}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Curl}}
@@ Line 71: / Line 70: @@
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kristian P. Lusardi}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Premier Energies Limited}}
-{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abhishek Malhan (2nd nomination)}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christine Warnke}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Covet Fashion}}
@@ Line 86: / Line 84: @@
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swaroop Puranik (2nd nomination)}}
 {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve Tappin}}
+{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moza Sultan Al Kaabi}}
+{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdul Samad Dawood (2nd nomination)}}