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"like" vs "interested in" debate - comments
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*'''Delete''' per LLP. I was somewhat unsure about this, but the idea that you need to categorise people in order to understand their edits is a very bad one (nb: LLP is one of those canvassed by OrenO [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Life%2C_Liberty%2C_Property&diff=127232978&oldid=126373912]) [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 21:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per LLP. I was somewhat unsure about this, but the idea that you need to categorise people in order to understand their edits is a very bad one (nb: LLP is one of those canvassed by OrenO [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Life%2C_Liberty%2C_Property&diff=127232978&oldid=126373912]) [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 21:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
*:Note canvassing by OrenO, BTW [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zeeboid&curid=7397898&diff=127234155&oldid=124401885] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Oren0] [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 20:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
*:Note canvassing by OrenO, BTW [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zeeboid&curid=7397898&diff=127234155&oldid=124401885] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Oren0] [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 20:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
<small>— [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] ([[User talk:William M. Connolley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/William M. Connolley|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if: who replied 7mn after OrenO on my talk page. Interesting Timing | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at who replied 7mn after OrenO on my talk page. Interesting Timing (UTC{{{3|}}}).}}</small>
*'''Keep''' per WP:IAR. Though as stated above, this is not a vote, however if we're all voting, then I say that the skeptics shouldn't be silenced like the [http://www.churchofglobalwarming.com Church of Global Warming] here would like to have done.--[[User:Zeeboid|Zeeboid]] 13:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. [[User:Life, Liberty, Property|Life, Liberty, Property]] express it well, this is not for people who deny global warming exists or who are expressing hate for those who believe that humans are the major cause of global warming. This is for people who are not convinced that the mainstream view is correct. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC) (note I have not been canvassed, I spotted this on my watchlist). [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. [[User:Life, Liberty, Property|Life, Liberty, Property]] express it well, this is not for people who deny global warming exists or who are expressing hate for those who believe that humans are the major cause of global warming. This is for people who are not convinced that the mainstream view is correct. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC) (note I have not been canvassed, I spotted this on my watchlist). [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:*Point taken, but it's still a POV category.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 21:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:*Point taken, but it's still a POV category.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 21:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:43, 1 May 2007

Template:Cfdu-header

Closing

For instructions on closing debates see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/User.

Speedy Nominations

New Nominations by Date

April 29

Administrators by country

To put it simply, subcategorizing national user categories based upon who among them is an admin is bad idea. As Jimbo himself said, "Adminship is no big deal." While the main administrators category is meant to facilitate finding an admin, these categories do nothing but elevate adminship above other users and make it look like a big deal, which is a Bad Thing. I foresee that some will say "but they facilitate collaboration." No, in fact, they don't (or, at least, they shouldn't). There is no reason whatsoever that a Canadian admin is any better suited to using his/her administrator tools on a Canada-related article than a Peruvian or Czech one is; in fact, in certain situations, it may be the opposite. We should delete these categories because they serve to divide Wikipedia between admins and non-admins. Picaroon (Talk) 23:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Category:Wikipedians who are skeptical of anthropogenic global warming

This is clearly a NOT category, which is prohibited by precedence based on previous user categories. Why deny fact, anyway?

  • I don't see how my post was Wikilawyering. I wasn't attempting to use WP:ILIKEIT, but rather to demonstrate that there is an excyclopedic use for this category, to refute those above that said it is unencyclopedic. Oren0 23:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Oren0's reasons. It seems to be used as a tool for POV-pushing. --Stephan Schulz 20:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Man-made Global Warming is not universally accepted as fact. If you desire to understand Global Warming skepticism better, the British documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle puts out the Global Warming skeptic point of view about as well as An Inconvenient Truth puts out the mainstream view. If there is a category for , there definitely should be a category for man-made Global Warming skeptics. If you're in an editing dispute with somebody over a Global Warming article, wouldn't you want to know if that person were a man-made Global Warming skeptic so you could understand where they were coming from? If this category were to be deleted, you'd probably have to delete alot of similar categories relating to political beliefs of Wikipedians. This category isn't used for POV-pushing anymore than all the other similar categories. Life, Liberty, Property 20:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per LLP. I was somewhat unsure about this, but the idea that you need to categorise people in order to understand their edits is a very bad one (nb: LLP is one of those canvassed by OrenO [1]) William M. Connolley 21:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Note canvassing by OrenO, BTW [2] and [3] William M. Connolley 20:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

William M. Connolley (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at who replied 7mn after OrenO on my talk page. Interesting Timing (UTC).

  • Keep per WP:IAR. Though as stated above, this is not a vote, however if we're all voting, then I say that the skeptics shouldn't be silenced like the Church of Global Warming here would like to have done.--Zeeboid 13:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Life, Liberty, Property express it well, this is not for people who deny global warming exists or who are expressing hate for those who believe that humans are the major cause of global warming. This is for people who are not convinced that the mainstream view is correct. Thryduulf 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC) (note I have not been canvassed, I spotted this on my watchlist). Thryduulf 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Walt, I am still pro-deletion but I think some of your arguments are becoming too un-Wikipedian, you can't know whether anthropogenic warming "skeptics" would be apathetic. There is also a difference between deniers and skeptics. Let's try and stick to the fundamentals of the argument for deletion of the category and not the relative merits of the climate change debate. Barfbagger 22:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, sir, skepticism of anthropogenic global warming is necessarily an interest in the topic. This is beyond obvious. ptkfgs 00:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since there are many people who are sceptical about the subject, and its a valid category following all the usual rules, the thing should really be kept. Amongst other things, it can be used as a sort of Declaration of Personal Interests when an editor makes an odd edit to pages on Global Warming, make sure theres no question of unbalance. Therefore, i suggest the category is Strongly Kept As Is without major changes. Cheers, Jonomacdrones (talk) 22:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or rename to 'interested in' no POV groupings on wikipedia.--Docga pox on the boxes 23:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: What's wrong with canvassing? People who are in this category deserve to know that it's up for deletion so they can express their opinions as to its merit. I didn't ask anyone to voice any particular opinion, I was just noting the fact that it's up for deletion. Oren0 23:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you mind elaborating? Why is grouping people who are interested in global warming skepticism unencyclopedic? We do that with Wikiprojects all the time; it helps build collaboration. How do you foresee this being abused? Oren0 03:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral. I think that the point that this is not a valid category is probably technically correct. It might be appropriate to replace it (and similar invalid "wikipedians who..." categories) with a userbox that says the same, with an integral link to "what links here" to that userbox to get a list... --Athol Mullen 03:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It's pertinent on subject pages for the scientists, who are being cited as authorities. It isn't here, because we do not edit as authorities. it encourages eds. to think in stereotyped ways, and promotes canvassing. Anyway, its easy enough to tell from any of the talk pages. DGG 07:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 28

Subcategories of Category:Wikipedians interested in film

As you can see, this category needs an overhaul. I have proposed we delete categories that are based on a single film, as categories used to collaborate on one (or very few) pages are not helpful enough to justify their existance, and if we allowed that we would allow a category for each of Wikipedia's 1.7 million articles. I have also proposed a rename for each category I don't think is too narrow for collaborative purposes, in order for them to have more encyclopedic names. "Who likes" does not really imply that someone wants to collaborate on the articles, "interested" is much better in that regard, and I think we should try to convert all other "who likes" categories to "interested" in the future. VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Individual film categories

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep at least 3 - There are a number of Phantom of the Opera, {{High School Musical}} and {{Blade Runner}} articles. These can be renamed to clarify that the users are interested in the series in general, but that is implied. Also, I reject the collaboration argument because there's a sense that it is irrelevant at WT:UCFD. –Pomte 05:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Else this category would eventually encompass every movie ever made. - jc37 11:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete but keep 3 maybe 4 as above. I agree we can't have such a category for every film, book, Star Wars character, etc., etc., etc. The three exceptions noted probably have enough activity to justify categories like this, as might Rocky Horror. At some point precendent needs to evolve as to what does or doesn't have such a level of activity. Maybe this will be a start. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Individual fims which have sequels

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Films by director

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why? How is "Wikipedians who like" better than "Wikipedians interested in" in terms of encyclopedic use? I like thousands of things, but I am not interested in collaborating on all of them. Naming categories as "who like" invites people to join the category for the sake of being in the category, not for collaboration, and I do believe all need to be changed from this. VegaDark 19:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand that you do, and it's a point that you and I disagree on. As I've mentioned elsewhere (including the talk page) I think that the user categories are useful for more than direct collaborative use. I could mention a recent quote from User:Jimbo Wales, which states something similar, but considering how his quotes were (in my opinion) taken out of context in userbox discussions, I'll avoid quoting him now. (Besides, as he often states, in cases such as these, he prefers to be "just another editor".) - jc37 09:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support: All this "like" business is nonencyclopedic fannish silliness and has nothing to do with buiding an encyclopedia. The rename will be less divisive and PoV, and won't lead to the creation "not" categories in response. The rename does not harm the application of such categories "for more than direct collaborative use". And yes, do avoid quoting Jimbo unless you can demonstrate that he is speaking in his official role, which in that case he was not (in contrast with Wikipedia talk:Attribution/Poll). — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Books and films

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Oppose "interested in" - else all sub cats of Category:Wikipedians would be eventually renamed to "interested in" (which I also oppose). By their nature, some film-related topics span more than just a film itself. And in some of the cases above, the books are more famous, or at least equally as famous as the film. Then there are other marketing tie ins, such as toys, comic books, and so on. All of which have the potential for articles. (Imagine: Category:Wikipedians who like Mickey Mouse.) - jc37 11:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Films by film series

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Monty python films

- VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Oppose "interested in" - else all sub cats of Category:Wikipedians would be eventually renamed to "interested in" (which I also oppose). Weakly opposing the addition of "films and media". By their nature, some film-related topics span more than just a film itself (see Star Wars above). But in this case, consider that this category has the related idea that it's like Wikipedians who like the Muppets. - jc37 11:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Giving this further thought. Debating "like" over "interested in" is subjective (WP:ILIKEIT/WP:IDONTLIKEIT), so I'm shifting to neutral. See also WT:UCFD. - jc37 08:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "interested in" as a worse, impersonal, generic, ambiguous name. I am very interested in Monty Python films for some convoluted personal reasons but I haven't seen any in full and so I don't know anything about them to contribute significantly to their articles. To like something, you at least should know some substantial information about it. Those who dislike them are also interested, but are less likely to contribute in a well manner. As long as we have user categories, which do not facilitate collaboration but rather build a sense of community, there is nothing wrong with grouping those who like a certain thing that is unlikely to cause conflict. –Pomte 00:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Can we presume that these comments refer to all the film discussions above in regards to the "inetrested in" renames? - jc37 09:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename to "interested in Monty Python" - don't include "films" if not limited to films. NB: The fact that it is impersonal and "generic" is much of the entire point. It isn't "ambiguous" at all if the confusing "films" is dropped. Agree with Jc37 that "films and media" isn't very useful. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 28

Category:Life path

Category:1stian Wikipedians

No article on 1stian, and therefore no indication that categorizing by this could help facilitate collaboration in any way. VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:AOL users

Needs an indication that it is a user category. VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anonymous Wikipedians

Can't possibly categorize all IP address contributors, and even if we could, why? VegaDark 22:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedians who are addicted to the Rayados del Monterrey

Rename to Category:Wikipedians who support Rayados del Monterrey Not correct with the other categories requires renaming.

April 27

Category:Wikipedians by D&D alignment and all subcategories

12 categories are not needed for the potential to collaborate on a single article. All of these need to be merged to Category:Wikipedians who play Dungeons & Dragons, or deleted. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Animal wikipedians

No reason for Wikipedians to ever go searching through this category for any reason that could help encyclopedia building. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedian fans of Obi-Wan Kenobi

Too specific for collaboration. There are thousands of Star Wars characters, we don't need to have a category for each one. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Users who watch LazyTown

Beyond Good & Evil categories

No articles on IRIS Network or Alpha section. Looks to be factions in the video game Beyond Good & Evil. No reason to categorize past the parent category, as it would be far too specific and would not facilitate collaboration further. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Users with OTRS access

Needs a rename to Category:Wikipedians with OTRS access. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Rename, probably don't delete. I believe we keep lists of everyone else with special access types, so I don't see the point of deletion here. It's voluntary to use the category anyway. --tjstrf talk 03:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedians who like Fast Food

Who cares who "likes fast food"? Knowing who enjoys the tase of a particular type of food is not something we need to categorize. At minimum needs a rename to be more encyclopedic, and for proper capitalization. VegaDark 21:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedians who live in Chattanooga

April 24

Category:Wikipedians who have written an AP Exam

Wikipedians who Support/Oppose X to Wikipedians interested in X

High school categories

Category:Commons users

Category:Bryce users

Category:Users who have the Ben Bulben award

Category:Wikipedians and Potato Skins

Category:Myself Wikipedian

Category:Wikipedians formerly in Munich

Category:Wikipedians who are one of an infinite number of monkeys

Category:Wikipedians who survived Hurricane Katrina

Category:Users who read Milenio Diario on a regular basis

Category:Wikipedians who have been hacked on Habbo Hotel

Category:User uz-0

Category:Wikipedian /b/tards

Wikipedians by former religion

Pokémon Collaborative Project members

April 23

Category:Flying Spaghetti Monsterists

Category:User standards compliant

Category:Wikipedians who ♥ NY

Category:Fwarn recipients