User talk:Harryzilber

Enjoy some jazz while you're here....

Unless requested, I'll respond to posts on the page where the conversation started as a means of keeping it together. If you leave me a message here, please watchlist this page for the duration of the discussion. If I post a query or comment on your talk page, then I'll watch your page for responses.

HarryZilber Archives No. 1

Archives contents
   
   * 1 Thanks!
   * 2 You can call me "STEW"PID
   * 3 Kindly point me in the right direction
   * 4 Re:_Vandalism 
   * 5 File copyright problem with File:Japan-Korea tunnel.png 
   * 6 Canadian Parliamentary Motion 37/1-1205
   * 7 Unreferenced tag
   * 8 Articles for deletion/Russell Blaylock
   * 9 Japan-Korea Undersea Tunnel
   * 10 KV33 changes moved to TT33
   * 11 File permission problem with File:Ericsson videophone -color image w-licence- GetImage.ashx.jpg
   * 12 Congratulations.
   * 13 Hydyne
   * 14 File permission problem with File:Ericsson_videophone_-color_image_-_GetImage.ashx.jpg
   * 15 Please help in deletion
   * 16 Meucci's 1871 caveat
   * 17 DYK nomination of Alexander Graham Bell
   * 18 Links
   * 19 LAV III
   * 20 ICU Global
   * 21 Transcluding page content
   * 22 Pre-WWII public videophone services
   * 23 errata
   * 24 Removal of 'Alleged holocaust perpetrators' cat from the Charles Zentai webpage
   * 25 Possibly unfree File:Ericsson videophone -color image w-licence- GetImage.ashx.jpg
   * 26 First Telephone Central Office photo
   * 27 Notice: Use of Holocaust template on Zentai bio
   * 28 Improper warning of 24.173.92.65
   * 29 WP:AIV
   * 30 Videophone / Video phone
   * 31 Re: ISP Followup
   * 32 Fonts – Inability for browsers to render all characters or ligatures within an article
   * 33 File:Ericsson videophone -color image w-licence- GetImage.ashx.jpg
   * 34 In regards of external link-spam. Yes or no? That is the question ;)
   * 35 approaching 3rr 
   * 36 Barry Fox as RS?
   * 37 Meucci
   * 38 V-mail
   * 39 False vandalism report on IP address
   * 40 Which Britannica editions are Public Domain and available for inclusion into Wikipedia?
   * 41 Your warning on User talk:76.206.249.101
   * 42 User :115.117.8.5
   * 43 Bell Postage Stamp
   * 44 CSI
   * 45 Elisha Gray and Alexander Bell telephone controversy
   * 46 Personal Attacks
   * 47 RE:Using Wikipedia for advertising or promotion on Camgirl.
   * 48 Formatting unique to Video Relay Service
   * 49 Rank bias and inaccurate POV against Meucci's contributions to invention of telephone by editors...
   * 50 Japan–Korea Undersea Tunnel
   * 51 Michaëlle Jean
   * 52 Japan–Korea Undersea Tunnel
   * 53 Sign language
   * 54 Whitespace
   * 55 TIN CAN PHONE
   * 56 Re: Removal of section heading blank lines and spaces
   * 57 No offense was intended
   * 58 Georg Rosen
   * 59 Grammar and Michaëlle Jean
   * 60 Jesus Christ
   * 61 AT&T
   * 62 Refspam in Pragmatics article
   * 63 William James Wanless GA review
   * 64 Telectroscope 
   * 65 Selection of Today's Featured Article (TFA)
   * 66 Bell Telephone Memorial
   * 67 WikiLeaks 
   * 68 Pedro II and Bell 
   * 69 Merry, merry 
   * 70 Happy, happy 
   * 71 Please Explain (American Telephone and Telegraph) 
   * 72 Happy 10th Anniversary of Wikipedia! 
   * 73 Food for thought, knowledge for change 
   * 74 thank you Mr. Zilber 
   * 75 BTMC History 
   * 76 Meucci and Telecommunication 
   * 77 a level 4 warning to User talk:198.38.68.5 
   * 78 Blockquotes 
   * 79 Jewish settlement in Imperial Japan 
   * 80 Harvey Fletcher 
   * 81 Chernobyl disaster 
   * 82 Volta Laboratory 
   * 83 WP:AIV 
   * 84 Airspeed  
   * 85 Thank you 

[Small toolbox: {reply|User_talk:Harryzilber#topic} .....]

Volta Laboratory and Bureau

The 1893 Volta Bureau building in Washington, D.C.

Did You Know: ... that Alexander Graham Bell's Volta Laboratory, funded by France's Volta Prize, invented the world's first non-electrical radiophones and tape recorders during the 1880s? 5x expanded by Harryzilber (talk) at 19:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

• Nice additions, but no 5-fold expansion in last 5 days (gradual expansion since Dec. 2009). -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 14:16, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Awarded to a conscientious editor who is always on the lookout for ways to improve article quality. Johnfos (talk) 00:21, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

{telecommunications} template

Please, note that your recent actions were contested. Regards, Incnis Mrsi (talk) 13:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we improve the value of the telecommunications template by putting it in every article that has anything to do with making signals. Eventually it will creep into battery and generator and table and chair, all of which may have something to do with telecommunication. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Wtshymanski: are you trying to imply that electric chairs didn't help people communicate?

Meteor burst communications and smoke signals are on the esoteric side for general telecommunications subjects and can be easily eliminated. Some of the network articles are highly specialized and likely of little value to lay readers. Do you carry care to nominate a few others to thin out the template? Best: HarryZilber (talk) 17:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd just hit the main overview articles for technology of communications and not tag every sub-article. Radio for example, but not every modulation scheme. Telephone, but not answering machines and pay phones. Etc. I would focus more on articles that talk about telecommunication as an activity and not so much on documenting every nut, bolt, brick and nail that might have been used in some telecommunication context. --Wtshymanski (talk)

This is another case of zealous template spam, that almost borders on vandalism, since the author does not seem to have any sensible idea of what is appropriate. Please stop spamming articles with this template. With similar intent, every article on WP could have dozens of templates attached. Kbrose (talk) 15:40, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Quoting Kbrose: "...zealous template spam...borders on vandalism...". Your insinuation of spamming and vandalism is patently silly; please look up the words in a dictionary and recognize that Wikipedia is not your personal fiefdom, and that article edits shouldn't be reverted because you just don't like it, as with your reverts to transmission medium and similar which bore no basis in the English language. You've now removed the general telecommunications template from data transmission and serial communication, amongst others. Exactly how are those two articles unrelated to telecommunications? The word 'telecommunications' is used in the very first lede sentence just in case you haven't looked -will you now delete any references to 'telecommunications' in such articles so they only appear to be software and computer-related?

An editor with a PhD should be able to appreciate that telecommunication-related articles bearing a collapsed navbox on general telecommunications helps readers better understand the full scope of the topic. Perhaps you don't care about lay readers –however that's your issue, not Wikipedia's. Unfortunately your conduct now verges on edit warring. HarryZilber (talk) 16:24, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Frankly, I agree. Navboxes are usually only trans lyres in the articles that are included in the navbox. The idea of a general link would be better served by a link to the telecommunications portal. That would allow readers to explore the topic without placing an overly large navbox (which loads slowly) on the page. oknazevad (talk) 21:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

A navbox, like a photo, takes extra time to load? -that's not new. The same can be said of every other navbox in WP, about 1.5+ million of them, including this very long telecommunication box: {Mobile telecommunications standards}, which appears twice as long as {Telecommunications (general)}. In the present day era of high speed broadband, navboxes add negligible bandwidth to the downloads; and since they're principally text they're also small enough not to significantly impact those who are using dial-ups. If you have strong negative feelings about navboxes you're free to suggest they should all be banned, but I doubt that many others will agree with that. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 03:45, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Well not everyone has a high-speed broadband connection. Don't forget, Wikipedia is read from people around the world. That, along with the potential for creating unneeded distraction is why they should be used judiciously and with a focus on relevance. Adding the full telecommunications navbox to a single Verizon or AT&T operating company, which is what brought my attention to this, is of questionable relevance. A portal template would be better focused and more beneficial to readers, I think. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of telecommcompanies in the world. Not all of their articles need to contain the telecom navbox; it's really just a bunch of irrelevant links for many of them. oknazevad (talk) 04:43, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I second Kbrose's words. You are acting in complete disagreement and ignorance of each other editor that commented on this issue, and you continue to add the telecom navbox to articles clearly dealing with subjects that are studied under computer science and computer networking. As I have said before adding the navbox to each and every article is not helpful; any reader interested in an overview of telecom subjects when reading a very specific article such as VoIP is going to look up those articles by him/herself. Arguing that the navbox will help readers "explore the topic" of telecommunications is just plain wrong. Considering this ongoing attitude of you I will support any other user bringing this up at AN/I or a similar place. (I just don't find the time and energy to start it on my own.) Cheers. Nageh (talk) 20:13, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Adding to this, inserting the navbox into an article is useful and helpful when the article itself is covered by the navbox, so it is possible to jump between these articles. If the navbox were helpful in articles of more specialized subjects then why wouldn't it cover also an outline of that subject's related articles? Because that is what more specialized navboxes would be for. So in the end you would accumulate more and more navboxes in an article the more specialized a topic it covered. Not helpful. Nageh (talk) 20:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately you feel that computer networking and science is unrelated to telecommunications, while I feel that it plays a direct part in some of those fields, e.g. email, SMS and text messaging. Never-the-less I'll avoid adding this particular navbox in the future to computer science webpages unless they're overtly related to telecommunications. Best HarryZilber (talk) 20:33, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Redlinks

Why do you remove the redlinks from IEEE Alexander Graham Bell Medal? Ntsimp (talk) 17:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ntsimp: a webpage with a few redlinks that will be converted to normal Wikilinks when a new bio article is created is not a great visual burden, however this particular article is years old and the four people who just had their redlinks removed are unlikely to have articles created about them anytime soon. The redlinks themselves detract from the articles appearance, red generally being a codified colour for something that is errant or incorrect.

The Wikipedia webpage on redlinks says: "Articles should not have red links to topics that are unlikely ever to have an article..." .....and...... "Do not create red links to articles that will likely never be created..."

If you or others create new bio articles on any of the four laureates, by all means convert their names to Wikilinks at that time. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 18:16, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of 'Category: Aircraft flown by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'

Category: Aircraft flown by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 23:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Food for thought, knowledge for change

Hello, Harryzilber. I read your suggestion for rewarding contributors and other stakeholders in Wikipedia [1] and I immediately thought, this reminds me of Project Xanadu. The Wikipedia article doesn't really convey the richness of the Xanadu idea, but it lists 17 rules for Xanadu documents including (relevant here) #5: "Every document can consist of any number of parts each of which may be of any data type," and #9: "Every document can contain a royalty mechanism at any desired degree of granularity to ensure payment on any portion accessed, including virtual copies ("transclusions") of all or part of the document."

Rule 5 (with rule 10) means that every word of every edit to a Wikipedia article (or anything else on the Internet) can be a "document" in the Xanadu universe, each with a unique address and a registered 'owner'. Rule 9 means that the owner can specify if and how that document may be used or reused and put a price on it. In the context of your 'food for thought' proposal I suppose the owner of each document (sentence, word) would be (say) Wikimedia_Foundation/Contributor_UserName with the Foundation setting the rules and the contributor getting the pro-rated credit along the lines you suggested.

I gather that the problem with Xanadu (as you will discover should you follow the links from the article) is not in its conceptual quality (quite brilliant) but in the difficulty of its software implementation. I can't help thinking that somewhere in the multiverse there is a parallel world where Wikipedia is implemented inside a Xanadu framework and that the two could still merge in this world, should people with better technical and organizational skills than myself start talking about it.

According to Xanadu creator Ted Nelson's current Transliterature website Xanadu (in the Transliterature form -- I'm not sure about the distinctions) is now being developed open source at: University of Oxford; University of Southampton; Project Xanadu; Xanadu Australia; Liquid Information, London; and University College, London. As you probably know, the Wiki software is open source and it is within the Wikipedia license to fork the entire Wikipedia, which means that a proof-of-concept Wikipedia under Transliterature could certainly be attempted. I venture to say that everyone at all of these projects is familiar with Wikipedia, but who knows if they would agree with me that a marriage would be possible and desirable? I will copy this message to Ted Nelson at the address he posted at Transliterature.org and I'll let you know if I get a response, or better, perhaps he would leave a comment here on your page: User_talk:Harryzilber.

More food for thought? —Blanchette (talk) 18:36, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Blanchette: your post is interesting as a study of the development of the WWW; I hadn't looked closely at its link to similar projects such as Xanadu although I'd seen it mentioned in the Vanabar Bush article.

However, you're proposing the forking and cloning of the WP project as a separate entity to allow for incorporation of Xanadu features, which appears to me as an infeasible step, I suppose mainly because of the huge infrastructure required to implement it. I also believe that several previous attempts of forking off the WP project into improved versions have essentially gone nowhere -if any have they certainly haven't become widely known; I don't know when I last looked at Google's Knowl project or the one started by Jimmy Wales original partner.

I'd rather work at pitching the concept to the higher level admins within WP, to implement (on a voluntary basis) Rule 9 in conjunction with (mandatory) tracked and cited changes as shown here, which is a proposed system compelling editors to provide inline reference sources for each revised or new sentence incorporated into an article. Since WP is basically a complete information system in itself, there'd be nothing to stop our programmers from incorporating Transliterature's rules as future upgrades. It will be interesting to see if they'd like to contribute resources to WP. Good luck.

Incidentally, a micropayment system created by MuCash is currently in use, in websites such as Cleantechnica, where you can see a Java-linked "Donate 25¢" button at the bottom of each article. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

You're right, Harryzilber, and Ted Nelson also agrees with you. He replied to my inquiry and writes:

"As to WIkipedia: they have their own methods.

Just try to change somebody else's software !-)

However, note that Wikipedia is entirely based on THEIR

kind of transclusion (look up there: 'Wikipedia:transclusion')"

Mr. Nelson also informed me that although the latest version of Xanadu is about to go into beta testing, payment schemes will not be in any initial release. So it's clear that some micropayment system like the MuCash one you mentioned coupled to user contribution data under the current Wikipedia software is the most direct path to your goal. For all I know it would not be too difficult to write the software to connect the elements of your suggestion on Wikipedia, and I share your view that such a system would be beneficial to The Wikimedia Foundation. I see no practical, moral or legal impediment to allowing editors to sign up as independent contractors to the Foundation and the motivational effects — even if the payments amounted to little more than "honoraria" — could be substantial, whether or not the level of donations was high. —Blanchette (talk) 20:55, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback from TN and for your comments. Any assistance you can provide in putting these ideas forward in the relevant WP forums would be appreciated. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 06:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Great idea, Harry! How can I sign up to receive my payments? -- -- -- 22:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

(MMM), feel free to contact 'Jimmy' over here, and he might set you up. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 23:34, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The article Wikimedia_Foundation does not seem to be the place to contact Jimmy personaly. -- -- -- 22:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh. Please contribute towards this goal whichever way you can. Thanks. HarryZilber (talk) 23:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Harryzilber. You have new messages at Talk:Gyrocompass. Kubanczyk (talk) 21:02, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Videoconferencing‎

fwiw - unlinked numbers in [brackets] are a dead giveaway to a copy/paste, usually from a wiki page. I just didn't have time to hunt down the source. --Versageek 20:19, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

No worries. It turned out that the section you excised was apparently just a vandalism edit from an I.P. who copied a previous section earlier in the same article and pasted it into a lower section. I only realized that after my revert when I spotted the duplication. The duplicated material has now been exculpated again. Please forgive my confusing edits. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Telephone Pavilion (Expo 67)

Harry, I think you're being unreasonable here: it's a pavilion, not a film. Can I suggest you create a redirect for the film which was shown in the pavilion? That way, we can categorize that and it will make sense. I'll even help you. We could add a section on the film to the article. In time, it could even become a stand-alone article, if merited. What was the name of the film, again? I saw it as a kid, but that's all I know. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:09, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

'Revert vandalism' button ?

Harry, you said "I recommend that when we revert those edits, we click on the 'Revert vandalism' button, so that 'vandalism' shows up on the history tab."

I could not find a 'Revert vandalism' button. Where do I look for it? Or do you mean I should put the words 'Revert vandalism' in the comments field? Greensburger (talk) 05:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

File:DreadnoughtHoaxCartoonDailyMirrorFebruary1910.jpg

Hi there, I see you changed license for above to {{PD-because|the drawing was likely a Work For Hire first published more than 90 years ago.}}. I originally used PD-US because it was published in Britain before 1923 but drawn by a cartoonist who died in 1953 (i.e. less than 70 years ago) - which as I understand it means it is PD in US only but is still under copyright in UK until 2024, i.e. original country of publication, and hence cannot be moved to commons until then. What does the license you give indicate ? The distinction between being PD only in US or in original country of publication is crucial as it determines whether the image can be transferred to Commons - if somebody goes ahead and transfers it to Commons when it is still under copyright in UK, Wikimedia is guilty of a copyright infringement, and the license info I used was intended to prevent this. regards, Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 23:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Rcbutcher, I changed the license with the view that most artists and writers' works are done as employees of the newspapers they were working for, making each such work a 'Work-for-hire'. Occasionally you see a copyright symbol notice on a drawing or cartoon, such as those drawn by Pat Oliphant, which clearly indicates that person owns the rights to the work. When I viewed the Dreadnought cartoon, no such copyright symbol is apparent. Has British copyright been misinterpreted here? HarryZilber (talk) 14:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

The way I understand Work for Hire in EU and UK, which applies to this work as the place of publication, is that it only affects the ownership, not the duration : the employer & publisher, the Daily Mirror, owns the copyright which expires 70 years after the author's death - very different to US law. So - that is why I used {{PD-US-1923-abroad|out_of_copyright_in=2024}}. I think the licence you changed to only applies to a US work, and since it was published outside the US before 1923, it is definitely PD now in US. regards, Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 05:45, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Rcbutcher: you appear quite familiar with British/EU copyrights and your discussion of when it falls into the PD sounds reasonable; I've therefore reverted my change in the cartoon's license status previously made so as to return it to its previous US PD status. Wikipedia obviously needs a full-time c/r consultant to handle these issues! Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy between US and UK works-for-hire. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 18:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

See Canadian Parliamentary Motion on Alexander Graham Bell

Discussion ensuing. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC).

Season's tidings!

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 03:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC).

History of wind power

Perhaps you can explain why my recent edits to history of wind power are wp:vandalism? Please also see talk:windmill and talk:history of wind power before threatening blocks. Ghughesarch (talk) 01:18, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that your edits were legitimate changes as per Talk page discussions. Unfortunately you made a radical change to the article without advising others of what was occurring on your change edit summaries, which is an MOS requirement. In the future, please follow WP requirements so others won't surmise someone's account was hacked to conduct vandalism. Thanks. HarryZilber (talk) 02:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

It was a handful of minor changes of terminology. Sorry not to have said so in the edit summary, however in future perhaps you could actually look at the changes rather than jumping straight to the conclusion that they're vandalism and threatening an instant block? Ghughesarch (talk) 02:05, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ghughesarch: unfortunately the radical edits in terminology appeared, at first blush, to be sneaky vandalism (horizontal-axis to vertical plane, and vice versa); I've done vandalism patrol from time to time and seen several similar instances. Your Talk page listed no other instances of vandalism, so it looked like someone may have hacked your account to conduct the changes. I've now retracted the vandalism notice from your Talk page, but again please add a short edit summary to your changes in future to alert others on what's occurring. Thanks. HarryZilber (talk) 02:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

See Canadian Parliamentary Motion 37/1-1205

Don't know what happened here, but it appears to be a "midnight" move when no one was watching. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 06:22, 11 January 2012 (UTC).

Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell controversy (update)

Harry, thank you for the link to the American Haritage viewable version. I just used it to replace the broken link in the Elisha Gray and Alexander Bell Controversy article. Also, thank you for all the work you have done improving Wiki articles on the telephone and other subjects. When I was about 11 or 12 I began taking apart old abandoned telephones and other electrical equipment. I still have a small bottle of carbon granules from serveral telephone transmitters that had mica disk diaphragms. I also still have a carbon amplifier from my uncle's hearing aid. My interest in Bell and the telephone began when I first watched the Don Amiche bioflick. Greensburger (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

National Book Award category and article names

HarryZ, Thanks for the barnstar. Only this hour I finished briefly covering the Young People's Literature awards in all of our articles on the books. See Category talk: National Book Award winners - Young People's Literature.

When I returned to the Category, i noticed the call for speedy deletion (rename). Some rename of the category(s) is appropriate but i'm not sure which. Maybe the articles should be renamed in accord with wiki policy. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy, which includes my brand new Comments. You may be interested.

Now I must run. --P64 (talk) 20:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

By the way: After my pass through all articles on 1935 to 1941 "National Book Award winners" (ie authors), all are now in Category:National Book Award winners; all include the basic fact of the award, almost always in the lead section, almost never in the {infobox} (but other editors add them to infoboxen). Generally I put all the award details in the lead section, and didn't edit elsewhere, if the article did not mention the winning book. Generally I put a simple statement in the lead, with award details below, if the article did mention the winning book in prose (the usual case). That is how you have revised Antoine dSE, trimming the details from the lead. In the latter cases I tried to link once to National Book Award in the lead, once to List of winners of the National Book Award#1935 to 1941 in the discussion of the book. At Antoine dSE you have done vice versa which I don't care to disturb.

Sometime after simplifying the NYT references in the [List...] I may return and simplify those in book and author articles, at least where I have referred to multiple NYT articles. I tried to remember to format NYT dates dmy or md,y depending on author nationality but certainly missed some.

I plan this week to get basic coverage of pre-war awards into the main articles National Book Award for Nonfiction and so on. --P64 (talk) 15:00, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Would you like a hug?

? (Original unsigned post by: user:79.70.239.52)

Hmmm.... two tries to write right gives a good picture of your keyboard. Maybe its better to take a timeout and have a Jazz. HarryZilber (talk) 21:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

edits to THI

Sorry for the quick revert, but either I'm not reading your edit summary right or you're mistaken. You say in your edit summary that "Source states specifically that Heartland's message "...however, has no basis in fact."" If by "source" you mean the NYT piece that was supporting the sentence you removed, that's inaccurate. Do you feel that the claim made - that the document alleged to be false detailed these curricular plans - is not supported by the NYT piece? Could you explain? Sindinero (talk) 17:52, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

[ discussion moved to Talk: The Heartland Institute: K-12 school climate science curricula documents -Z ]

Genocide discussed in Nanking Massacre

Nobody was "trashing" anything [in ref. to this section of the article ]. It was the nature of the quote itself---"genocide" was only mentioned in passing in an article that wasn't even about the Nanking Massacre, and based on that and that alone, "genocide" was added to the opening sentence of the article. You're not seriously suggesting that was an acceptable thing to do, are you? I mean, if one random quote like that is acceptable, then it would be easily countered by the multiple, sometimes book-length sources that claimed the massacre never even happened at all. Is that what you want to see happen to the article?

Also, on neither page of the Christian Scinece Monitor article is the word "genocide" used, nor in the HyperWar or Hata articles, and the Kasahara article is a dead link. Please don't play fast and loose with your sources. The Massacre is heavily documented, and outside of Japan denialists are extremely rare. If it were widely believed to be a "genocide", then you should be able to find a mountain of sources that describe it so. The fact that none of the major sources do (even the ones that go out of their way to demonize the Japanese) suggests strongly that maybe it is not widely believed to be a genocide. If you strongly believe it was, then feel free to go blog about it, but please quit sticking your POV in the article until you can unambiguously back it up. CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 23:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Curly Turkey: You're mistaken implying that I edited the lede to the article, which I did not. I objected to your deletion of the material and citation referring to genocide which was positioned after Line 149, shown here, directly relevant to the section "Massacre of civilians", and which quoted in its reference "Also, genocide may occur in the aftermath of warfare when mass killings continue after the outcome of a battle or war has been decided. For instance, after the Chinese city of Nanking was occupied by the Japanese in December 1937, Japanese soldiers massacred over 250,000 residents of the city." Extra citations are added to corroborate the figure of 250,000 killings.

Let's not debate the validity of the United Nation's Genocide Convention and let's not delete an established journal's description of it occurring at Nanjing in an appropriate section of the article. If you want to contest Sociological Theory as a valid source, or Bradley Campbell's work in it, you're free to provide other sources which do so. However labeling them as "POV" and removing such material projects the appearance of censorship, not good editing. HarryZilber (talk) 03:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

1. Cold Season and I have agreed to a rewording of the sentence, take a look. Baldly, stating that it was, flatly, a "genocide" without qualification is unambiguously POV, as none of the major sources agree it was so. It's not like those sources are known for taking the Japanese side.
2. Also, I didn't remove the extra sources (except the dead link). Loading up a hotly contested the sentence with five sources sure looks like padding, however. If that was not your intention, sorry, but it was extremely hard not to see it that way in the context. After all, the 250,000 number is cited at other points in the article already.
3. "Validity" and "appropriatenes" are separate things. Nobody accused the source of being unreliable, only of being inappropriate. Accusations of genocide should never be taken lightly. If the major experts, and even the Chinese themselves, are not making these accusations, then how is it appropriate to include it in the article? CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 03:37, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks are extended to User:Cold Season and to you, Curly Turkey, for coming to a consensus view on the inclusion of the usage of 'genocide' withing the body of the article. I agree with the new wording in that subsection (Massacre of civilians), and I also agree to refraining from its usage in the lede (unless new major reliable sources describe it as such) to avoid WP:Undue.

You most likely understand that there are no specific black-and-white definitions of 'genocide', such as committing X number of murders. What may be considered a 'war crime' today by the international community may be reclassified as a 'genocide' or a 'crime against humanity' tomorrow since sociological and legal perspectives are always subject to change. As an example, from the article Crimes against humanity: "The definition of what is a "crime against humanity" for ICC proceedings has significantly broadened [around 2002] from its original legal definition or that used by the UN¹⁹..... " Let's hope all such events disappear from humanity's record forevermore. HarryZilber (talk) 18:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

thanx

Thank you for your additions of Climate change denial regarding The Heartland Institute and Climate change policy of the United States. Please see wp:Tea. ^{[Original post contributed by: 108.73.113.5 (talk) 10:03 pm, Yesterday (UTC−5)]}

[Note: the original post above was contributed by IP 108.73.113.5, and removed this a.m. without this user's permission, as shown here, by User:Arthur_Rubin. HarryZilber (talk) 15:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)]

Boldface in Image Captions

I'm genuinely curious to know where the MOS allows for accentuation in image captions by bolding. I've skimmed Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Captions and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Boldface, which don't seem to endorse it. The boldface article only endorses using bold in table captions, not image captions. A.Roz (talk) 04:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi A.Roz: actually, I think not, as copied below from the subsection on Boldface in Text Formatting:

Other uses

Use boldface in the remainder of the article only in a few special cases:

• Table headers and captions

My interpretation of this is that its use is applicable to captions in general, not to 'table captions', since tables usually use headers, not captions. I don't apply bolding to every caption, but use it here and there selectively to help readers better skim articles. Out of curiosity, what drew you to the Bell Memorial article, an interest in Bell, Allward, Brantford, or something else? Best: HarryZilber (talk) 13:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Myanmar/Burma

There is never any need to say the same thing twice in same sentence. The guideline gives the example of Calvin Coolidge. If you give his full name, you don't have to mention that he was also called "Calvin" and "Mr. Coolidge". See Wikipedia:Lede#Alternative_names. Kauffner (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Cut and Paste Warning

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give Musée de l'Air a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. MilborneOne (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

If you feel the article should be moved then please start a discussion on the talk page per Wikipedia:Requested moves to gain consensus, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 20:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Please also note that as a cut and paste move breaks the chain of attribution, this makes the cut-and-pasted page a copyright violation. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Spacedoutonspacing

HiBZuk,Greetingstoyouthisfinefallday.WhileIrecognizethatextraspacingwasanissueattheearlystartofthecomputerandITerainthe1950sand1960s,itismuchlesssotodaywhenoodlesofcomputermemoryareavailableforafarthing,oritsmoderndayequivalent.Additionally,whilewritingformachinereadersisanicetouchIalsotendtothinkitsnicetowriteforthebenefitofhumaneditorsaswell,whousuallyliketoseeclearlywhatthey'retryingtoread.Justathought. Best:HarryZilber (talk) 18:59, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

The extra spaces don't even show up in formatting so they are essential l y n o t u s e f u l. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 20:33, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi again Bzuk: I quite agree the extra spacing doesn't appear in the finished article viewed by readers, but that's not why I add the spacing; its added as a courtesy to new and inexperienced editors. I can recall my first impressions as a newbie editor several years ago attempting to edit formidable citation-laced articles: the edit boxes appeared so jumbled with wikicode that I had no clue where or how to proceed with small cursory edits -I was put off editing for quite a while. Researching citation and other procedures, combined with patient trial and error obviously got me past that stage, but it became apparent to me that the same unnecessary hurdles are faced by other people who want to contribute to Wikipedia's articles but who don't possess higher level technical abilities. As a courtesy to such less experienced editors we can remove this obstacle with extra spacing in the wikitext of our articles, IMHO. This helps separate text from cites and clearly shows section structure as its principle benefit. My 2¢s. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 14:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

99.57.136.216 (talk) 01:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you asked me to put a message here.

You have threatened to block me, for making changes to the Antoine de St-Exupéry page. I don't know what changes you mean, and I imagine you've already reverted them. I wish to avoid trouble, but am not able to communicate with WP.

My name is Don F B Reed. I used to be registered as "donfbreed", but my 2005 Mac Mini computer died in October 2011, and my WP password was lost with it. (I bought a newer one, which is similar but not the same.) My IP address, which miraculously has been constant for over a year, although AT&T U-Verse doesn't guarantee it, is 192.168.1.65 . I have had several email addresses over the past decade. The only one now working is "donfbreed@att.net". I've asked WP to send me my password (or a new one)> Possibly one was sent to an address that no longer works, or it was received and buried by bulk emails I never asked for: I am unable to filter msgs and am about 1000 msgs behind in my reading. If you send me a msg, I will look for it, but I may not find it. Alternatively, my listed phone number is 408-257-6859. My snail mail address is

Don F B Reed 19608 Pruneridge Ave, Apt 3107 Cupertino, CA, USA 95014-6759

99.57.136.216 (talk) 01:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello Don Reed at IP 99.57.136.216: if you review the earlier caution you'll see that the message says, at its bottom: "If this is a shared IP address, and you didn't make the edit, consider creating an account for yourself so you can avoid further irrelevant notices". If you didn't make this edit then its possible that you're using a dynamic IP, and/or another person using their computer or your computer made the edit which deleted valid material from the Saint-Exupery article.

I'm not an administrator and I'm unable to assist you in restoring your old Wikipedia account, however you may wish to start a fresh new Wikipedia account to avoid receiving vandalism-related messages. To create a new account, visit this Wikipedia help page for instructions. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 19:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

99.57.136.216 (talk) 09:16, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello, HarryZilber. I'm glad you replied to my post on this page. I am trying to avoid damaging people's work and irking their ire. I am not exactly sure what constitutes removing or blanking page contents or templates on the page in question. I'll try examining the change logs for the page.

PS: Why do you refer to me as IP 99.57.136.216 ? My machine's System Preferences:Network page says I'm at 192.168.1.65, and have been there for over a year. (My last ISP used to switch me all around randomly. Perhaps you're seeing the IP address of a gateway, switch, or name server along the route between me and you. Is 216 a reserved value with a special meaning, like 0 and 255 ?

Believe me, I am considering creating a new user account—without one I feel like an outsider or a pirate—but my efforts have been unsuccessful. My proposed userid's and passwords have been rejected, without explanation.

I also don't know how to consolidate the two sets of changes. Is there some way I can actually converse with an administrator who could help me? My goal is simply to become a useful contributor, one among many, worthy of at least a little trust. I have done silly things before (under another name) but nothing malicious. In general, I started with commas. I then looked at obvious errors and inconsistencies. Eventually I filled in details. It's hard to the limits without guidance: commonly, the first hint I get is:"You've just gone too far. Do it again and you're exiled." I'd like to know where the line is, before I reach it. I'd like to stay well within normal limits, and I think I can. 99.57.136.216 (talk) 09:16, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Question: did you remove material from the External Links section of the Saint-Exupery article, as discussed earlier? Note that for general guidance on Wikipedia procedures, you can see this manual. HarryZilber (talk) 14:11, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Bite much?

Issuing this uw-delete4im warning for the simple removal of an external link is highly inappropriate and just plain wrong. You have no indication that the editor acted with a deliberate intent to harm the encyclopedia. There is no history of disruption from that address, and the blanking was absolutely petty. Any 4im warning is completely inappropriate in a case like that. In fact any message stronger than {{Uw-delete1}} is probably not cool.

You owe that IP an apology and consider this a warning for WP:BITE and WP:WikiBullying. Toddst1 (talk) 16:53, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Reduced protection level request: 2012 Quebec student protests

This page appears to have been fully protected by you on October 20th, 2012, with the comment: "Protected 2012 Quebec student protests: Persistent sock puppetry: sock(s) of MrBoire still targeting this article (which led to previous protections) (‎[edit=sysop] (expires 14:43, 20 April 2013)"

I can see putting full protection in place for a short period of a few days while dealing with the sock puppets noted, however lengthy protection for a period of six months is overkill and does a disservice to Wikipedia. For example the Liberal Charest Government is no longer in power, yet it still referenced as the government in power within the article's lede sentence. Newer events are missing from the article, which also contains numerous grammatical errors. Kindly remove full protection from this article and reduce it to a lower level of protection if needed. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 14:20, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

There's no reason the article can't be edited now. You can and should use the {{edit request}} template on the talk page.

The sock-puppetry has gone on over a period months targeting that article. It has led to edit wars and more than a few blocks. Had you bothered to investigate that history, you would likely see that the protection is not overkill. It's unfortunate that you think my work here is doing a disservice to wikipedia.

Despite your charm, I'm willing to consider unprotecting the article. Are you willing to monitor that article for the recurrence of the sock's edits if I do? Toddst1 (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok, looking at your extremely poor judgement on User talk:99.57.136.216, I have no faith that you'll constructively deal with any sockpuppetry or other nonsense there. I'm retracting my offer. See discussion of wikibullying. Toddst1 (talk) 16:49, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Toddst1: you may be missing a bit of history related to Saint-Exupery. There has been a long-standing dispute over who can be allowed to represent the author's legacy: there are two camps, the relatives of his paternal family and the heirs to his wife's estate. Each has formed their own network of associations/societies and they have occasionally both clashed in the courts and in the media. I side with neither side and respect the contributions each brings to the memory of Saint-Exupery, whom I admire for his service to humanity. The deletion of the external link representing one of those camps, as may have happened in this case, can be seen as deliberate and offensive. I do not believe that it was simply some middle school editor's prank or a newbie experimenting. That's my view related to the Saint-Exupery article, which appears to have some parallel to your views of edits on the Quebec student protests. HarryZilber (talk) 20:21, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

History shows you as by far the primary contributor to that article. Your reaction to that deletion smacks of article ownership. In my quick perusal of the history of that article, I see no other time that EL was removed. Nor do I see any other time when that IP or its stated owner has edited the article, other than to add a wikilink which can only be viewed as the best of good-faith constructive edits. Your actions seems like some of the worst WP:BITE and failure to WP:AGF I've come across in a very long time to me. Toddst1 (talk) 20:53, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

If you could find an edit where I've interfered with others contributing to the article you might have a valid claim, but since you won't find such edits, you don't. Saint-Exupery, despite his name, was no saint, and that has been readily pointed out in the article by many, including myself. I suspect that most WP editors would view that an IP who comes to the article in order to delete the mention of an apposing 'camp' of heirs is not contributing to the article so much as detracting from it. If the IP had a valid reason for deleting the external link it should have been stated in the edit summary (per the MOS) which was blank, as is often the case with malicious edits. Again, I believe the deletion was a deliberate act of vandalism. That's my view at least.

I would appreciate if you could update the Quebec student protest article for the issues as noted earlier. HarryZilber (talk) 21:38, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

The talk page where you can propose changes, get consensus and post an {{edit request}} is ->that way. Toddst1 (talk) 23:27, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Matt Jr.

I'll look at it later. Can you try to match the article referencing format? If that's difficult, I'll see if I can do something about it. I guess a brief mention is OK. I think you should try to integrate it in the existing sections, though. In addition to whatever's put in granddad's article, I do encourage you to start an article on the grandson, it would be good for DYK credit for one thing.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Wehwalt, thank you for your patience –I've gone ahead and cleaned up the new section with Harvard style {sfn} tags. MPW Boulton's achievements in aeronautics can hardly be overstated: his device, as described (I haven't yet been able to view a copy of the patent), is used to allow safe and efficient flight on virtually every aircraft you or I travel on (helicopters do not use them), or built since about 1915. I have nothing against the Wright Brothers as they did enormous amounts of groundbreaking and pioneering technical work in the science of aeronautics; however they profited unjustly and excessively from other peoples' earlier works, Boulton's aileron being a notable case in point.

A new article on M.W.P. Boulton is definitely on the to-do list. From a preliminary Google scan of what's available it may be a tough slog since there appears to be little readily available, which likely means ordering or finding access to out of print works, including a copy of his patent which I unsuccessfully tried to locate last year. In the meanwhile a short section on M.W.P. in the Matthew Boulton and Matthew Robinson Boulton articles seems appropriate. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 15:25, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. Once the article is written and a link is available for interested readers, it may be wise to shorten it. Thanks for matching the referencing.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:02, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

You are appreciated

		The Biography Barnstar
		Excellent work on Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. Pleasure to read. Parsh (talk) 13:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

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December 2012

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 3 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Drmies (talk) 05:40, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Harryzilber (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

Since I did not perform more than three reverts, and since I did not remove other editors' material—they were removing my elaboration—Drmies imposed censorship on a protion of an article he didn't agree with using the flimsy argument of edit warring, without even applying its rules intelligently. I categorically did not violate the 3RR rules given that my edits were being deleted and that I revised an edit others didn't agree with by providing a direct quote from its reliable source. I am very well aware of 3RR and edit warring policies and rules. HarryZilber (talk) 06:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Notes:

• In some cases, you may not in fact be blocked, or your block has already expired. Please check the list of active blocks. If no block is listed, then you have been autoblocked by the automated anti-vandalism systems. Please remove this request and follow these instructions instead for quick attention by an administrator.
• Please read our guide to appealing blocks to make sure that your unblock request will help your case. You may change your request at any time.

Administrator use only:

If you ask the blocking administrator to comment on this request, replace this template with the following, replacing "blocking administrator" with the name of the blocking admin:

{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=Since I did not perform more than three reverts, and since I did not remove other editors' material—they were removing my elaboration—Drmies imposed censorship on a protion of an article he didn't agree with using the flimsy argument of edit warring, without even applying its rules intelligently. I categorically did not violate the 3RR rules given that <u>my edits were being deleted and that I revised an edit others didn't agree with by providing a direct quote from its reliable source</u>. I am very well aware of 3RR and edit warring policies and rules. [[User:Harryzilber|HarryZilber]] ([[User talk:Harryzilber#top|talk]]) 06:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

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{{unblock reviewed |1=Since I did not perform more than three reverts, and since I did not remove other editors' material—they were removing my elaboration—Drmies imposed censorship on a protion of an article he didn't agree with using the flimsy argument of edit warring, without even applying its rules intelligently. I categorically did not violate the 3RR rules given that <u>my edits were being deleted and that I revised an edit others didn't agree with by providing a direct quote from its reliable source</u>. I am very well aware of 3RR and edit warring policies and rules. [[User:Harryzilber|HarryZilber]] ([[User talk:Harryzilber#top|talk]]) 06:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1=Since I did not perform more than three reverts, and since I did not remove other editors' material—they were removing my elaboration—Drmies imposed censorship on a protion of an article he didn't agree with using the flimsy argument of edit warring, without even applying its rules intelligently. I categorically did not violate the 3RR rules given that <u>my edits were being deleted and that I revised an edit others didn't agree with by providing a direct quote from its reliable source</u>. I am very well aware of 3RR and edit warring policies and rules. [[User:Harryzilber|HarryZilber]] ([[User talk:Harryzilber#top|talk]]) 06:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

• You were warned, you continued to edit-war against consensus on the talk page, you didn't participate in that discussion, et cetera. Drmies (talk) 05:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Drmies: you've apparently applied a block against me in violation of the WP:3RR rules, which state specifically: "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing other editors—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert."

Since I did not perform more than three reverts, and since I did not remove other editors' material—they were removing my statements—you have imposed censorship on an article you don't agree with using the flimsy argument of edit warring without even applying its rules intelligently. This will be appealed. HarryZilber (talk) 06:04, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Edit warring makes it clear that an editor can be blocked for edit warring even if they don't make 4 reverts. The fact that you originally added the material does not mean your further edits don't count as a revert. Ryan Vesey 06:07, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to appeal. I did block you for warring. How a long-time editor could do this on such a contentious article is beyond me, and that it made no sense to me is why I blocked you for only three hours--that's AGF. Drmies (talk) 06:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Your explanation of justifying censorship under the guise of 'warring' is duly noted. You are still wrong and will be appealed. HarryZilber (talk) 06:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC)