User talk:Corinne

the Moon

3rd quarter, 65%

Scene with flowering tree, Foy's Lake, Chittagong. Photo by S. M. Anisur Rahman. 2014. (Maybe it was a misty morning.)

You are welcome to continue discussions which have already been archived.

Useful Wiki-links

Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests WP:TFAA Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates Google Art Project Template:Convert/list of units Help:Advanced text formatting Guild of Copy Editors' templates: {{GOCE inuse}} {{GOCE|user={{subst:REVISIONUSER}}|date={{subst:date}}}} {{GOCE|user=Corinne|date=September 15, 2015}} Useful external links: Google Translate Merriam Webster Wiktionary To link a word in an article to a Wiktionary definition, use this at the word: (example) [[wikt:skill|skill]] or just [[wikt:skill|]]. Putting the pipe hides the "wikt:". Tool for counting characters Copy text you want counted and paste in empty box. TFA summary char. count guideline: 900–1200; 1000–1150 great. Earwig's Copyvio Detector Per 7&6=13, the one limitation of this tool is that it will also find sources that used/plagiarized Wikipedia articles, so just be aware of this when using the tool. Useful no-break hyphen: ‑ Link to conversion templates: {{convert}} Example conversion templates for high numbers: {{convert|13100000|km2}} → 13,100,000 square kilometres (5,100,000 sq mi) or {{convert|13.1e6|km2}} → 13.1×106 square kilometres (5.1×106 sq mi)

Would you like to help out at WP:TFA?

Hi Corinne. I'm somewhat familiar with your copyediting work (having crossed paths at FAC and having checked some of your recent edits), and I'd like to invite you to do a few WP:TFA summaries. If you're interested, pick a subject area you enjoy or a wikiproject you have a good relationship with, and keep an eye out for new articles that Chris and Brian post at WP:TFAA. I'll be happy to help. - Dank (push to talk) 23:24, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank Ooo...thank you. I'd love to help. I clicked on the link WP:TFAA and saw what looked like summaries of featured articles, with a date above each one. It looks like those summaries have already been written. I guess I'm not clear on what you want me to work on. Corinne (talk) 00:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Great. I recommend you watchlist these four pages:

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 9, 2015
• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 10, 2015
• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 11, 2015
• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 12, 2015

Within a few days, all of those links will light up. Pick one of those to work on that you're comfortable with ... they will come either from article leads or from WP:TFAR (and most of the work will be done already if they come from TFAR, but there will probably be things you'll want to tweak). You're welcome to pass on those if you like and pick one from the next batch of four. I reserve the right to fiddle with your results to comply with other people's rules (MOS, FAC standards, etc.), but don't worry about that ... just do whatever seems right to you. - Dank (push to talk) 14:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

They're up ... do any of those appeal to you? - Dank (push to talk) 02:29, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Even though I read the fourth one out of curiosity, I'm more interested in the first three. I can get to one or more of them tomorrow, after I finish copy-editing Termite. Corinne (talk) 03:22, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Great. - Dank (push to talk) 13:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank, I've done all I want to at Termite (I went through it once and then about 2/3rd's of a second reading. It's a very long article.) So now I can start on this project. I'm a little confused, though. When I click on each link, above, it looks like a summary has already been done. The summaries look like the ones you see on the Main Page that end "Full article...". What do you want me to do? Did I wait too long, and someone else did the summaries, or am I supposed to write a one-paragraph summary? (If I'm supposed to write a one-paragraph summary, what is that for?) Corinne (talk) 01:54, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

You didn't wait too long; the pages haven't been edited since Chris created them. For Oct 9, he copied in the current article lead, which is 1394 characters. (I can tell by using this page.) That needs to be reduced to between 900 and 1200 characters (not including "(Full article...)" at the end), and I try to aim for 950 to 1150. I also tend to make small tweaks for grammar and readability, because the Main Page gets 10M hits (as opposed to up to around 20K hits that the article itself will get on its TFA day), so I do a little rewriting for a readership that includes less sophisticated readers. I also try to minimize redundancy. You can look at some of the TFA summaries I've done to see what I mean ... it's easy to create a diff between the page that Chris or Brian created and my final version. - Dank (push to talk) 02:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I see Oct 10 isn't identical to the lead of the article; that's because it was nominated at TFAR for TFA, and the nominator did their own article summary. I usually find things I want to tweak, even when a summary has already been done. - Dank (push to talk) 02:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Btw, when I count characters, I'm counting the text the readers see, not wikitext in the edit window. - Dank (push to talk) 02:18, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank Oh.... Thanks! I have two more questions:

1) Where do I work on the summary? In my sandbox? Here on my talk page? Or somewhere else?

When I was getting started at TFA, I used my sandbox ... you're welcome to do that or to make the edits directly to the page. - Dank (push to talk) 02:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

2) When you count characters, do you just copy what you've written and paste it into the blank box that's at the link you gave me, or am I supposed to copy the script that is under that blank box and paste it somewhere? I tried copying it to my talk page, but it looked weird in preview so I didn't save it. Corinne (talk) 02:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I paste text into the blank box and click on "Calculate characters". - Dank (push to talk) 02:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Dank. I finished the first one. How does it look? I got it down to 1,076 words. If you don't like it, perhaps you'll like the previous version, one edit back. Corinne (talk) 03:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

You're doing great ... you see some of the same things I do, and you're doing some things I wouldn't do. The mental workout this gives me is worth the price of admission. Before we get started: I'm going to be insisting that we do some things my way rather than your way ... but I want you to know that this isn't the way I usually operate, it's a reality that comes with TFA. People want their FAC and TFA copyeditors to make the same calls that have been made before, and the coordinator job requires a certain fussiness. So for now, I need to be pretty hands-on. I hope that's okay. So, some comments:

• "and their colour has inspired more unusual common names such as port wine banksia and strawberry banksia.": The rule at TFA is: no aliases or alternative names, apart from one common name if the article has a scientific or foreign-language name.
• Paragraph break: sadly, TFAs are written without paragraph breaks. (There are times they'd be really handy, but space is limited and paragraph breaks are frowned on at the Main Page.)
• "relatively hardy": stet. Wow, this one is hard. I'll run through the relevant issues so you can plug this into your calculations in the future. Yes, academese and journalese are stuffed full of adjectives used mainly to CYA (cover your anatomy), to vague-ify any assertion to the point where no one will ever successfully challenge it, without a lot of thought given to whether the noun alone might suffice. But that's the point ... these (sometimes awful) choices often come from the sources, and on Wikipedia, some level of faithfulness to the sources is required. I think it's a great idea to skim a Wikipedian's prose to see if they're the culprit, the one who seems to be inserting unnecessary fudge-words ... in this case, Cas is either writing the prose or vetting it, and he doesn't have this bad habit, so my usual call would be to just leave this alone and not bring it up (but note that I just pinged him, so I guess I'm bringing it up :). Also, note that technical terms can have a meaning for experts different from the common meaning, so for all I know, the word "hardy" implies survivability under particular conditions, and this banksia doesn't quite rise to the challenge, in which case "hardy" alone would be technically incorrect. Cas might enlighten us on this.
• "It is a gnarled tree up to 10 m (33 ft) tall": stet. When I hear "gnarled tree", I'm not thinking of something 33 feet tall, and the image alone doesn't give a sense of scale, so I think we need the numbers here.
• "1–3 m (3.3–9.8 ft)": Good call on ex-ing this. A rule of thumb at TFA is: most readers who see our TFA summary weren't planning on reading it, it just happens to be the first thing that comes up on the Main Page, so as soon as we throw in a lot of numbers (of any kind) or scientific jargon or lots of long words, we've lost most of our potential readership. (That has to be balanced of course against the needs of accuracy, clarity, and fidelity to the article.)
• "or a lower spreading shrub in the more northern parts of its range.": In general, I'm not looking for a reason to toss the writer's text, I'm looking to keep it. My instinct is to keep this bit, but I'll have to check the character count when I get done. But I'm going to rewrite it: "or, in its northern range, a spreading shrub." (Make sense?)
• "firewood banksia": No bolding at TFA. I will of course use italics or quote marks for words-as-words, but not for common names, except that I'll use italics for a name in cases where it would otherwise be mistaken for running text. (I'm leery of the inherent ambiguity with quote marks ... do they denote scare quotes? words-as-words? post-modernism gone wild? a title? a word I think the reader won't be familiar with? an attempt to disambiguate from a more common meaning? I'm comfortable with quote marks when I know my reader, but I'm very careful with a broad readership.)
• "paler grey green": I'm fine with the change to "paler green"; we have to cut somewhere, and this place is as good as any. I also agree with your choice to leave it alone in the article; it's not a mistake, just a stylistic choice. Cas, if you're reading this, it would also be fine to restore it, it's not like we're tight on space here.
• "are often two-coloured red or pink and yellow": stet. Removing "often" changes the meaning, and FAC writers sometimes get ornery over these kinds of changes.
• "birds and in particular honeyeaters are prominent visitors.": We've got room for this, though I rewrote it to: "honeyeaters and other birds are prominent visitors."
• Okay, 1008 characters now. Anything between 1000 and 1150 is great, and 900 to 1200 is allowed.
• No need to do anything with the images; David Levy and Chris have those covered.
• Nice work! - Dank (push to talk) 19:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
• Oh, I just noticed you gave me the option of restoring "but its sensitivity to dieback from the soil-borne water mould Phytophthora cinnamomi makes it short-lived in places with humid summers." I don't have a preference; Cas might. - Dank (push to talk) 19:31, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
• Btw, great work on Termite. - Dank (push to talk) 20:46, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
• The Oct 10 TFA is a tough one, I'll do it. Oct 11 looks fun, if you want it. - Dank (push to talk) 21:36, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) User:Dank Thanks! and thank you for the pointers. When deciding whether to leave a word in or take it out, do I need to look at the original source? Corinne (talk) 21:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I never go that far. Sometimes I'll ask the writer if it's okay to take it out. - Dank (push to talk) 21:55, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

User:Dank I just finished the October 11, 2015, TFA summary. What do you think? I got it down to 1,063 characters. Whew, it's difficult to keep cutting and consolidating! I took out things that seemed either less important or less interesting than what I left in. Corinne (talk) 22:27, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank Did you see this yet? I may have added the link to your user name after I signed, so you might not have gotten the notification. By the way, other science and technology articles I helped with to get them to FA are Epacris impressa, Radiocarbon dating and Oil shale in Estonia, in case you'd like to look at them. I have another question: I see a note at the top of the page when I am working on a summary that says I am supposed to purge something after I work on it. What is that? Corinne (talk) 23:36, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll get a chance to look at it in an hour. If you add "?action=purge" after a url, that makes transcluded pages show the most recent changes (for instance, if you're looking at WP:FAC, it will fetch the most recent version of all the individual FAC pages to display). You don't need to purge when you're working on an individual TFA to see your changes. - Dank (push to talk) 23:54, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

My ears were burning....menziesii is really grey-green not green but otherwise reads ok. thx for playing with it.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:11, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Heh ... I hope your eyes were burning too, I pinged you above. (If you didn't see the ping, I'm going stop pinging entirely, it's too unreliable.) I've restored the one "grey green" from the original text. - Dank (push to talk) 12:50, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank I just learned about a week ago that if you add the ping after you have signed, the ping won't work. You have to sign again if you add a ping to a comment that's already been signed. Corinne (talk) 21:27, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I did sign, but the signature was several paragraphs down; I'll try signing the same paragraph with the ping from now on. - Dank (push to talk) 22:08, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

P.S. I looked at the October 12, 2015, TFA (the last one of the four, above), and it looks like the summary has already been done. It's at 1186 characters. Do you have any other summaries that need to be written? Am I supposed to look somewhere for further ones or wait for you to provide links? Corinne (talk) 21:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I did October 12. Up to you ... if you like, you can watchlist all the remaining October TFA pages (the ones at WP:TFAA), so that as Chris creates new TFA pages this month, you'll be able to get to work on the ones you like. - Dank (push to talk) 22:08, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

O.K. I'll watchlist the TFAA page. Thanks for all your help. (I'm sure I'll need it again.) Corinne (talk) 22:26, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Watchlisting WP:TFAA itself will work if you pull up the page daily with "?action=purge" at the end; then you'll be able to see when the red links turn blue. OTOH, I'm watchlisting all 31 days in October (before most of those pages have been created), so that they show up on my watchlist as soon as the pages are created. You may want to do that too. I also need to watchlist the pages so that I can respond if someone edits the pages. - Dank (push to talk) 22:31, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Dank, but I couldn't find anything with the "action-purge" thing at the end. I don't even know what you mean by "page daily". Regarding watch-listing all 31 days in October, I found the list for each day of October. I clicked on "watch". There was a question: "Do you want to watchlist this article?" and I clicked on "Yes", and it said, "This article has been added to your watchlist." But how do I get back to the list to add others? If I use the back-arrow, am I erasing the addition of that article to my watchlist? Corinne (talk) 22:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

If you watchlist all the pages, you won't need to purge, but in case you ever want to purge a page: you won't find "?action=purge" in Wikipedia; you have to type that in yourself in your url bar (the one that starts https), after the url, then hit Enter, to "purge" a page, which will reload all the pages transcluded into that page. (So, for instance, formerly red links will turn blue, if those pages have since been created.)

Using Alt-backarrow will not unwatchlist a page; I use Alt-backarrow repeatedly to get back to WP:TFAA after watchlisting. "page daily" meant "page, every day". - Dank (push to talk) 22:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Thank you. Now I understand. So if I watchlist WP:TFAA, then, every day, or every few days, I add the "action-purge" thing to the url, hit enter, then it's updated.

Yes, but you won't need to do that if you watchlist Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 13, 2015, Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 14, 2015, etc. - Dank (push to talk)

Regarding what to do after watchlisting a particular date-page/article, I guess you hold the ALT key down while you press the back arrow (the one on the keyboard in the group of up-down-left-right keys). I've never used that combination (but of course I will if that's the best thing to do). I usually use the back arrow that's in the upper-left-hand corner of the screen. Do you know if these have the same result?

Exactly the same, whichever is easier.

Dank, would you mind explaining two things to me? One is "transcluded". What does that mean?

If you pull up for instance WP:FAC, you'll see a very long page that has a bunch of Featured Article Candidate pages on it, one after another, including (currently) Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Runaway Scrape/archive1. The individual FAC is said to be "transcluded" to the WP:FAC page: if you make an edit to it, you'll be editing the individual FAC, not the WP:FAC page. Likewise, WP:TFAA transcludes each of the individual TFA pages for a whole month, and displays them all, but if you start to edit one of them, you'll suddenly be working on the the individual TFA page for a particular day.

The other one is this: I don't understand what you mean by a page being created. I thought these articles have already been written, some, apparently, a while ago. What is the new page that is being created? Is it just the summary page? Who creates that initial summary that needs paring down? Thank you in advance for your patience. Corinne (talk) 23:44, 27 September 2015 (UTC) Dank... Corinne (talk) 00:18, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

The Featured Articles have already been written. Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 10, 2015 is an example of a TFA page, a short summary that will appear at the top of Wikipedia's Main Page on October 10. Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 15, 2015 hasn't been created yet ... if you click on that red link, it will take you to a page that doesn't have any article text, and you can watchlist it just like any page. As soon as Chris creates that page, it will show up in your watchlist. - Dank (push to talk) 01:48, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

Dank I was just looking at the TFAA page, and I looked at the summary for Charles Domery. I wondered why there was a comma after "Polish soldier" in the first sentence. I would not put a comma there. Corinne (talk) 01:06, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

How about these sentences? George Washington was our first president, known as the "Father of His Country". Bunny Bread is a market leader, available in grocery stores statewide. Are these commas okay? - Dank (push to talk) 01:17, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank Yes. There's a difference between these two sentences and the first sentence in the Charles Domery paragraph. In these two sentences, the subject is already known and/or identified.

That doesn't seem to be the difference. In "Bunny Bread is a market leader", the subject is unique, and the predicate nominative is one of many, just as in "Charles Domery was a Polish soldier". In both sentences, the subordinate clause is being used in a nonrestrictive sense. There are a few who would be offended by the Domery sentence if we left off the comma to give it a restrictive sense, for the same reason that "He was an Italian with a big appetite" might be read as offensive ... are we implying "He had a big appetite, even by Italian standards"? The nonrestrictive comma gives it the meaning, "He was a Polish soldier, and he was noted for his appetite". - Dank (push to talk) 03:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

In the first sentence in the Domery paragraph, the two phrases, "a Polish soldier" and "noted for...", are both being used to identify Charles Domery. He was a Polish soldier who was noted for eating a lot (whatever it says). If you put a comma before "noted for", you are making it an afterthought, which minimizes it, when in fact it is the most important part of the identification.

Other way around ... the "payload" of a sentence, the new information or the intended point, is most likely to be the last thing said, not the first (although there are exceptions, of course, and the first sentence in an encyclopedia article sometimes reverses the usual order). Chapter 4 of The Sense of Style covers this in some detail. - Dank (push to talk) 03:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

He was not just a Polish soldier. He was a Polish soldier who was known for eating a lot. (I think I prefer "known for" over "noted for".) Also, in your first example, it says "our first president". It doesn't say "a president". If it said, "was a president [who was] known as the father of his country", then you could leave out the comma because the phrase "known as the father of his country" is essential to identify the person.

In the second example, "Bunny Bread is a market leader, available in grocery stores statewide", it is really, "Bunny Bread is a market leader, [and it is] available in stores statewide". The last phrase (a shortened clause) is giving additional not-particularly-important information and is not being used to identify Bunny Bread.

You could also say that the sentence is really, "Bunny Bread is a market leader that is available in stores statewide." If this is intended, the adjective clause "that is available in stores statewide" is modifying "market leader" and is restrictive – it is essential for identifying "market leader" – thus, no comma before it; and, if this is intended, it can be written like this, or "that is" can be removed, leaving: "Bunny Bread is a market leader available in stores statewide". In this case, "available in stores statewide" is important information. In the first way, preceded by a comma, this information is less important.

Bunny Bread is a market leader, [and it is] available statewide.

Bunny Bread is a market leader that is available statewide. Bunny Bread is a market leader [that is] available statewide.

At least that's the way I see it. Corinne (talk) 02:55, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank Should I assume that you skipped the rest of my verbose post since you commented early on (above)? ;) I hadn't thought that those types of sentences would offend anyone. You think it might be offensive if it were worded, "Charles Domery was a Polish soldier who was noted for his unusually large appetite"? I don't see how that can be offensive. What if it just said, "Charles Domery was a Polish man who was noted for his unusually large appetite"? If you took "who was" out of each one of those sentences, would you write, "Charles Domery was a Polish man, noted for his unusually large appetite"? I wouldn't. Those "who" clauses are restrictive, not non-restrictive. Here is a non-restrictive clause: "That man is Charles Domery, who is known for his large appetite." Here, the man is already identified; the information in the clause is extra information and not needed to identify him. I think you'd like it to be, "Charles Domery was a Polish soldier, and he was known for his unusually large appetite." That makes being a Polish soldier and being knownn for his large appetite equal in emphasis. Is that what you want to convey? If so, I would write the sentence just like that. If you think one is more important than the other, then you use subordination, or you could write, "A Polish solder, Charles Domery was noted for his unusually large appetite", or "A soldier in the Polish army in the late 18th- to early 19th-century, Charles Domery was noted for his unusually large appetite." What do you think of that? Corinne (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I read the whole thing ... I replied inline because I was responding to specific sentences. I was about to add roughly the same thing you just did ... that if this sentence were any sentence other than the first sentence of the article, then "Charles Domery (c. 1778 – after 1800), a Polish soldier, was noted for his unusually large appetite" or "The Polish soldier Charles Domery (c. 1778 – after 1800) was noted for his unusually large appetite" would be preferable to what we have now, for exactly the reason you give. Unfortunately, it's the first sentence, so we're somewhat constrained by WP:LEAD. (Although ... you make a good point, let me think whether I want to be bold enough to deviate from LEAD, since this is TFA and not an article.) - Dank (push to talk) 03:51, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I just saw your second comment. Where is, or who is the author of, The Sense of Style? Also, I have been wondering whether this is a British English/American English difference. I have noticed British English-speaking editors adding commas in places where I would not use them, such as this kind of shortened clause. I would actually never write, and in fact have never even seen before I began editing on WP in 2012, I think it was, the kind of sentence with which I started this conversation. Are you, by any chance, a British English speaker? Corinne (talk) 03:46, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Lifelong US resident. See The Sense of Style. - Dank (push to talk) 03:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Okay ... LEAD be damned, we'll do it our way. - Dank (push to talk) 04:05, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

There's another issue we hadn't broached yet ... there are Wikipedians who go ballistic over any occurrence of "known for" or "noted for". Till now, I was thinking that we couldn't get around it, but now that we've reworded the sentence, I think it works without "known for" ... what do you think? (See Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 12, 2015.) - Dank (push to talk) 04:11, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Btw, back to where this all started: I'm looking for people to write a few TFA summaries. I've been suggesting this plan for many months, and gotten basically no support for it, because FAC writers would apparently prefer to deal with one person rather than several. Things came to a head recently when there were a couple of TFAs that I didn't want to work on, for one reason or another, but now that I've gotten started with looking for help, I want to try to make this work. My position is that wikiprojects react very positively at FAC and TFA when they feel they have a copyeditor "of their own", someone who knows their wikiproject standards as well as FAC and TFA standards, at least well enough to get the job done. So, where this is going is ... be thinking about which wikiproject(s) you enjoy working with the most, and after you've picked a few more TFAs to work on, I'll ask you to specialize in TFAs for one or more wikiprojects. - Dank (push to talk) 16:59, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank O.K. I'll give that some thought. I see you re-worded the first sentence of the Charles Domery summary. I like it. It's nice and short and simple. I don't know what you mean by "LEAD be damned". Was there some sentence pattern we were supposed to use? I just want you to know that I'm always open to learning something new and hearing other viewpoints, and unless something is clearly ungrammatical, apart from explaining my point of view on a style issue I'm not going to get upset if something doesn't end up the way I would write it. I appreciate being able to discuss things with someone as knowledgeable, courteous and kind as you are. Corinne (talk) 18:03, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Why thank you, you're very easy to work with too. Many have interpreted LEAD to require a "was" in the first sentence of this type of article; I took the "was" out for a while, but I changed my mind and put it back. I think this is the first version of the first sentence we've arrived at that's unlikely to cause a problem at WP:ERRORS ... so thanks for bringing this up, you were right that there was a potential problem. - Dank (push to talk) 18:10, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Dank I thought you were going to assign articles to me for writing or shortening summaries. I see you've been writing quite a few, and you haven't asked me to write a single one. Corinne (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

You gave me a list of topics. It won't work for you to do all the history or biography TFAs; that's too broad. You asked about art history; I can add that to your list if you like. Other than that, none of the new articles have been in your list of topics (except Oct 31, Cucurbita, which I had done before it showed up). Is there a TFA I've done that you were looking forward to doing? - Dank (push to talk) 16:24, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Dank No, I hadn't been looking. I only saw them as they appeared on my watchlist as either being already completed or still being worked on. I was just waiting for assignments. Can you give me some history and biography articles? Corinne (talk) 23:17, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure, I'll find some for you to work on in the next batch. Sorry for the miscommunication; I was just looking for a few people to work on a few TFAs. - Dank (push to talk) 01:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Dank Kind of on this same topic, I thought you were going to assign TFA summaries to me occasionally. Would you prefer that I just choose one that looks interesting and just start editing? Corinne (talk) 00:15, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

No, please don't edit random TFAs ... as I've said, I'm keeping an eye out for TFAs in your subject areas and I'll let you know. (Btw, Nov 21, which was scheduled today, was mostly done already when it arrived.) I've got a lot on my plate and a very busy week, I'll try to answer your questions next week. - Dank (push to talk) 00:35, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

CE

Hello there! I was looking for a copy-editor for Sonam Kapoor. A wiki-friend of mine suggested me to ask you. Would you mind copyediting (it's been already ce'd by a user so it's looking much better)? -- Frankie _talk 14:38, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Frankie Thank you for your request. Have you already posted a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests? If not, would you do that, and if another editor hasn't accepted the assignment before I do, I'd be glad to look at it. I'll be looking for the request. Corinne (talk) 15:29, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I would bother GOCE if it were not at FAC at the moment (GOCE takes a long time to consider a request). But I did post it outside GOCE and I wasn't lucky enough to get a response. -- Frankie _talk 20:12, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

FrB.TG I can only accept one assignment at the GOCE requests page at a time, but I'm between articles right now. I've just finished one article and haven't yet accepted another one. If you post a request right now, I will go to the requests page and accept the assignment. I'm just curious: is there a time limit or some kind of deadline on this? Also, if your article is up for review for FA, isn't there a special peer-review page for those articles? Corinne (talk) 00:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay I've posted the request at GOCE. There isn't a deadline for FAC but if an article does not get a response for a long time, it might fail. Also, I am looking forward to your work. :-) -- Frankie _talk 07:50, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

FrB.TG Oh, my gosh. I just realized that I had forgotten about your request and my promise to copy-edit this article. I will accept the assignment right now and get to work on it. Next time, feel free to remind me if I let too many days go by. Corinne (talk) 00:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

OMG again. I just realized that I had already copy-edited this article. I placed a GOCE template on the article's talk page on October 27, 2015. I guess I forgot to add the "Done" template on the Requests page. Let me know if you need help with anything in this article or any other articles. Corinne (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

You absolutely did not forget the copy-editing. It's just that your and the two others' copy-edit didn't satisfy some reviewers. Let's see if it attracts another copy-editor. Thanks very much for your copy-edit. -- Frankie _talk 14:20, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

En-dash and em-dash

Baffle gab1978 I thought I had asked you a few weeks ago why you used the en-dash and em-dash templates {{ndash}} and {{mdash}}, and you said it was just easier than typing the code for a no-break space and then the en-dash, but that they were essentially the same. I replied that I liked seeing the en-dash or em-dash in the edit window because it helped in editing. Was it you who I asked about that? I have looked on my talk page and in the last two or three archives, but I can't find it. I'm asking because another editor, Checkingfax, changed a no-break space plus en-dash to two separate templates, one for the no-break space and one for the en-dash, in Allegra Versace: [1]. I want to know if there is a good reason for using those templates instead of a no-break space and then en-dash. Also, what does the {{mdash}} accomplish that an em-dash (—) doesn't? Corinne (talk) 01:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Corinne, a Bot came through many pages I had edited and removed the HTML sequence codes like   commenting that they were "invisible Unicodes" which they are not, so now I just replace those codes with templates when I see them. The templates that are wrapped in curly braces just lead back to the same HTML sequence codes, but the Bot can't see that.

I just make my first template that combines a non-breaking-space, an en dash, and another non-breaking-space in to one tiny template. Here's the shortcut for it: {{snds}}. Note: (mnemonic: s= space, nd= ndash, s= space). I created several other mnemonic shorthands to pull it up. The full template name is: Spaced en dash space.

I'm still working on the documentation for it, so some of it does not apply. I cloned it and edited it from the {{snd}} template documentation.

I don't have an endash or mdash on my keyboard, and the ones we can click on in the edit window don't land at my desired insertion point and I have to go find them and then copy/paste them to the correct spot.

In summary, I stopped using the HTML sequence codes directly because the bot was replacing them anyway. I hope you find a use for my brand new template too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:18, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Hmmm... Very interesting. I'm surprised you don't have an en-dash or em-dash on your keyboard. All sorts of useful things, including those, are right below my edit window when I'm in Edit Mode. Do you see, under where it says "Save page", "Preview", and "Changes", and below that is "This is a minor edit" and "Watch this page", and below that "Common edit summaries - click to use"? Below that, at the left side, is a box. if you click on the tiny black arrow, a menu opens up. If you click "Wiki markup" to select it, you will see all the useful things to the right of the word "Insert". Then, when you want to use one, such as the en-dash, you put your cursor where you want to insert the en-dash (with a click), then click on the en-dash. Sometimes (especially when I'm working on a long article and am making a lot of edits that I don't want to lose if something goes wrong), I highlight what I want to replace the en-dash with, and then click on the en-dash. For example, if I want to change an em-dash to an en-dash, I highlight the em-dash and then click on the en-dash (from the list of symbols, etc., after "Insert").

The reason I use no-break-space, and then en-dash, and then a regular space, is because if the en-dash comes at the end of a line, I want the en-dash to stay just to the right of the last word. I don't want the en-dash to appear at the beginning of the next line. The regular space after the en-dash ensures that the line will break after the en-dash. I wonder, with your template that has the space in the template, whether it will allow a line-break after the en-dash. I don't know what happens with an em-dash. I don't know whether the template mdash automatically allows a line-break after the em-dash, or whether the word just before and the word just after the em-dash stay stuck to the em-dash. I usually use the spaced en-dash instead of an em-dash anyway; I like what it looks like better. Corinne (talk) 02:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Corinne, yes I've tried using those wiki markup buttons, but my laptop and my mobile phone both lose their insertion point and the wiki markup lands wherever it pleases, so I gave up using it.

My new macro template {{snds}} (or one of its many aliases) will be helpful for words like where you want both words to stay conjoined but you want a space on both sides of the en dash. I come across a lot of articles that have regular-space/hyphen/regular-space and my template would serve those. If you want the 2nd word to wrap on to the next line if needed you should use the {{snd}} template instead. That one puts a regular space after the en dash so the word will still line wrap. My new template puts a non-breaking space before and after the en dash. As for em dash, if you put a regular space before and after it, then it will break before or after the em dash as the line space dictates. The {{snd}} template is more suited than mine if you have long lists of en dash spaced items inside a table or such and you want them to break in to natural paragraphs but always ending each line with an en dash. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

(←) Hi Corinne; yes it was me you asked about the dashes, but I can't find the conversation right now and I can't remember where we had it either. {{mdash}} doesn't do anything special; it renders —; I normally subst it (type {{subst:mdash}} to leave an actual mdash in the code. The same isn't true of {{spaced ndash}}, which renders & n b s p ; & n d a s h ; & # 3 2 ; (minus spaces) when substed. I also prefer seeing the actual dashes in the code, but I'm lazy and don't want to have to type & n b s p ; – all the time, or fish out an ndash from the character map (as I just did!). Each to their own, I s'pose, and it's all valid code. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:29, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Here we go: [User_talk:Baffle_gab1978/Archives/1#Indian_National_Congress its here]. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Baffle gab1978 and Checkingfax, both. Checkingfax, I may use one of your templates from time to time. I'll try it out. Regarding your difficulty in inserting an en-dash, I also use a laptop, and I discovered that the cursor moves and other things change if I don't hit the key to lock/disable the built-in pad, the one you use with your finger. (I use a mouse.) If I don't lock/disable that pad, then while I'm working, my hand will inadvertently touch that pad and all sorts of crazy things will happen such as the screen zooming out or scrolling down when I don't want it to, and difficulty getting the cursor to stay where I want it to. Of course, if you're used to using that pad and not a mouse, you can't lock/disable it. Regarding the em-dash, according to MOS:ENDASH, an em-dash is supposed to be unspaced, that is, no space either side of it, so when I see a spaced em-dash, I remove the spaces. If it comes at the end of a line, I'd rather it break before the dash than after it, but I suppose it's not a big deal if it doesn't. I just wondered if one of the templates for the em-dash ensured that it broke at the end of a line (right after the em-dash and before the next word), even without a space being there. Corinne (talk) 13:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

---

Sticky on the left, loose on the right em dash

CC: Natalie.Desautels
Dear Corinne, I made a sticky on the left, loose on the right em dash template, using a zero width joiner on the left, and a zero width non-joiner on the right, and an em dash in the middle.

The template is a mouthful: {{zero width joiner em dash zero width non joiner}} (click on the blue link to see the documentation).

I created three shortcuts for it including: {{nsmdns}}

The mnemonic for that is: no-space m-dash no-space

You put no space before the template and no space after the template. I hope you like it. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 15:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Wow! Just like that, you made a new template? I'm so impressed! Did you make all those others, with the various sized bullets, too? What's the "tlx" at the beginning of the template (in edit mode)? Corinne (talk) 16:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, no I've only made two simple templates so far. Those others were already there.

The tlx keeps the template from "firing" on this talk page. Click on blue link {{tlx}} to read the documentation on that. On a Talk page without the tlx the template show up as the end result (an em dash). tlx is a way to display the template. It's a bit confusing to me because if somebody looks at the code they might copy the tlx part too when all they really want is the nsmdns part of the template. There are other ways to display templates without them "firing" like: tl, tlq, etc. Each one displays a different way or has limitations, like tl is similar to tlx but tl does not allow any piping within the template or it will truncate the displayed template. You can use nowiki too to keep them from firing, but then they don't show up with a blue clickable link like tlx or tl allows. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, More on using {{tlx}} when showing a template example: in your copy/edit cheat sheet up above if you use this code:

{{tlx|convert|13100000|km2}} it will render like this:

{{convert|13100000|km2}} which will make the word "convert" show up as a blue clickable link that will take you to the "convert" documentation page that will show you all the various parameters for the "convert" template. Take out the nowiki tags around the first example of the template, and replace it with the tlx and the pipe, then the word "convert" will light up in blue and the tlx will not render (you won't see it when you look at your cheat sheet). I find it's handy to be able to quickly get to the various "convert" parameters that way. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 20:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Thank you! This is helpful to know, but I decided to keep the example conversion templates for high numbers separate from the link so that an editor who wants to use them doesn't think they have to put in the "tlx" and create that blue link to the conversion template page. They, or I, can just use the template as it is, just changing the numbers as needed. I had already kind of memorized most of the common conversion templates; it was the high numbers and the square kilometers that I sometimes couldn't remember. But it's always good to have that direct link to the conversion template page. Several times I haven't been able to find it. I wonder if you would look at the way I formatted it above. Is there any way that the link to the conversion templates could be made other than with curly brackets? Corinne (talk) 21:53, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Allegra Versace

Checkingfax I was surprised when I saw these two edits to Allegra Versace: [2] and the next edit, [3]. In the first one, you changed a hyphen to an en-dash between "long" and "standing". This word can be one word. See [4], or it can be a hyphenated word (see the alternate spelling in that Wiktionary entry), but I have never seen it with an en-dash. I really think you should change that back. In the second edit, you changed a hyphen to an en-dash between "ex" and "fashion model", in the noun (or noun-as-adjective) "ex-fashion model". That's a normal use of a hyphen. See all the example words at [5]. I don't understand why you changed it to an en-dash. I hope you'll consider changing it back to a hyphen. Best regards, Corinne (talk) 17:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, let me do more research on when a hyphen is required. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, OK I made the requested changes at Allegra Versace. Sorry about that.

I also made a new template to make a no-space bold middot: {{bolddot}}. That is just one of the shortcuts to the actual template name. It's sticky on the left, and will allow word wrap on the right.

Can you do me a favor and help out a friend to actually copy-edit the lead for the Michael Laucke article? Everything in the lead is well researched and well referenced in the body, but the lead sentence structure and flow is still a bit awkward. Whatever grabs you, just fix it. Thank you.

PS: I finally figured out to do interwiki links properly. For longstanding you do: [[wikt:longstanding]] or you can do [[wikt:longstanding|]] or if you forget the abbreviation, you can do: [[wiktionary:longstanding]] or [[wiktionary:longstanding|]]. In the second examples, the pipe is a "magic" pipe which makes the colons disappear and what comes before the colons disappear too. In all cases you don't get that blue flag in the upper right corner of the link either‍—‌it just looks like a regular wikilink.

If you want to do long links for interwiki or for diffs the guidelines also tell us to strip off the https: part and only leave the remaining link from the //. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Oh... Thank you! I hope I can remember all this. Corinne (talk) 15:03, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax I am ready to work on the lead in the Michael Laucke article, but I see you are working on the article, so I'll wait. I'm sorry I didn't get to it right away. I had things to do today, and when I finally logged in to WP, I felt I ought to finish the article I had been working on (Urumi (film)) before I started anything else. Corinne (talk) 00:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, can you copy edit the whole Michael Laucke article? BTW, it's already getting 5000 page views a month! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Joyce Vincent

Hi, Corinne. You might be interested in investigating the moving date of birth in this article (which incidentally tells a remarkable story). I left a note on the talk page. Rothorpe (talk) 03:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe Thank you. I'm not so interested in the changing date of birth, but I did read the article. It's quite a sad story. She seems to have had so much potential. I was puzzled by "bedsit". We don't use that word here. I read the article linked at the word, and saw the equivalent words and phrases (SRO and rooming house), but even those are not really common here, even in the big cities. More common are studio apartments (besides regular 1- or 2-bedroom apartments). I also thought it was interesting that no one at the public housing agency noticed, or was notified, that the other half of Vincent's monthly rent was not being paid. Here, I think the accumulating arrears for the part of the rent for which she was responsible would not have gone on for so long. The article also said Vincent's television and heat continued to be paid through automatic debits and "debt forgiveness". Did she really have that much money in her bank account that her bills could be paid every month for more than two years? I didn't read the link at "debt forgiveness", but I doubt we'd find anything like that here. There are a couple of puzzling things about this story. Corinne (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Corinne. I remember reading this. It looks as if I forgot to reply. Sorry! Do you still want to elaborate? Rothorpe (talk) 02:36, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Urumi

Hai, could you please help copyediting this Indian film article Urumi (film). Article contains a lots of matter, but badly written. So need good copy editor to do some work. Requesting for your help. --Charles Turing (talk) 18:48, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Charles Turing I'd be glad to copy-edit the article. I'll do it as soon as I finish working on another article I've just agreed to copy-edit. Would you please list it as a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests, either now or when I've finished copy-editing the other article (you'll see the one I'm working on). Thanks for asking. Corinne (talk) 19:49, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. I had submitted the request. Charles Turing (talk) 19:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank I need your help. I've gone through the article once, and made a number of edits, but I feel the article still needs some work, and I've kind of reached my limit of interest and knowledge. I'm thinking particularly about these issues:

• Some sections may be a little long;

• the formatting of both the film Urumi is different; outside of quoted statements it is in italics, but in some of the quoted statements it's in single quotation marks or even double quotation marks. I hesitated to change anything in a quote;

• here and there are a few colloquial phrases such as "The box office fetched" and "caught the eye of" (though not as many as before I started editing). I don't know if those can stay or not;

• I wasn't sure about the correct formatting for groups/magazines/on-line sites (?) "Nowrunning", "Syfy" and "Rediff" in the section Urumi (film)#Reception. Anything you can do to help would be appreciated. If you'd like credit for copy-editing at WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests, I will let User:Baffle gab1978 know. Corinne (talk) 23:40, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

• P.S. I just remembered: there is an error in one of the references at the bottom of the page. Corinne (talk) 23:48, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Baffle gab1978 See my comments just above this. Can I write "Done" at the Urumi request for a copy edit even though I think a few more things need to be looked at? I've done what I can. Corinne (talk) 00:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC) If you want to address the issues I raised in the list above, I don't think Dank would mind. Corinne (talk) 00:19, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

India House

Dank I was just looking at your edits to India House, and I saw this edit: [6]. I know that in the next edit you moved the period to outside the double square brackets of the link, but I don't understand your addition of "Bal Gangadhar Tilak" after a pipe. It's the same name as before the pipe. What am I missing?

It wasn't my choice, I was using VisualEditor. Neither I (per my standard disclaimer) nor the people who coded VE (judging from the thing you just pointed out) care a lot about things the reader can't see. - Dank (push to talk) 13:55, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

On another issue, I've seen you placing commas before adverbial clauses ("......., although....."). I've always understood that no comma is to precede an adverbial clause that comes after the main, or independent, clause. Corinne (talk) 04:18, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I follow FAC style (to the best of my ability), and that's not FAC style. Also: The Sense of Style is currently available for $8.48 at http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=sense+of+style&sprefix=sense+of+style%2Caps%2C191. I recommend it highly. Two things are relevant here: the first part of the last chapter, which talks about why bad writing advice seems to be so persistent in certain style manuals, and the section on commas, especially the very first sentence in that section: "The first of the comma's two major functions is to separate parenthetical comments about an event or a state – the time, place, manner, purpose, result significance, writer's opinion, and other by-the-way remarks – from the words that are necessary to pin down the event or state itself." (p. 285) Also see the advice to insert a comma "Before a contrast adjunct" (p. 290), and the general advice on "prosodic" commas, commas that indicate a breath or pause. - Dank (push to talk) 13:55, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank I looked at the page Wikipedia:Featured article criteria and I didn't see anything specific about the style to be used in featured articles. Is there a separate page on that? Corinne (talk) 00:01, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. - Dank (push to talk) 00:11, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		For your excellent work on Kingdom of Hungary (1000–1301). Thank you. Have a nice week! Borsoka (talk) 04:46, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Borsoka Thank you so much for the barnstar and for your good wishes. They are much appreciated. Corinne (talk) 23:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2015)

Marie Serneholt at the 48th Guldbagge Awards. Hello, Corinne. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Marie Serneholt Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Allegra Versace • Comedy horror Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:34, 9 November 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

TAFI talk

• Hello Corinne:

You are invited to participate in this discussion at the TAFI talk page regarding improving the automation of project processes and management of the project. Your input is appreciated.

Sent by Northamerica1000 using mass messaging on 15:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

A usage question at Talk:Foundation of Moldavia

Hi Corinne, I've chosen the Foundation of Moldavia article as my next GA review. Borsoka and I started a discussion of whether the word, "founding" better befits the title than "foundation". Perhaps you could look over the discussion at Talk:Foundation of Moldavia#Questions prior to GA review and give your opinion, since I see that you are interested in and knowledgeable about English usage. Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 21:24, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

TFAs for you, if you want them

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 28, 2015. - Dank (push to talk) 18:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thank you for your helpful edit summaries accompanying your copy-edits to this article. I will learn from them. Not that you need anyone to agree with you, but I agree with all of them. However, I hope you won't mind if I discuss one with you: [7]

Here is the sentence as it is now:

• Ants in these groups measure around 5 to 15 millimetres (0.20 to 0.59 inches) in length, apart from the larger queen ants.

I also don't like to see "being..." used too often, but the way it was worded before, with "..., with the queen ants being larger", was correct. Perhaps you have a particular reason for wanting to avoid it, but in any case I can understand if you prefer not to use it. If you really don't want that construction, I think another wording needs to be found because I don't think "apart from the larger queen ants" is right. The fact is right, but the construction isn't.

Perhaps:

• All ants of this species apart from the larger queen ants measure around 5 to 15 millimetres...in length.

Once you specify "ants in these groups" (i.e., the major and minor workers), you no longer need "apart from..."

Or:

• Ants in these groups measure around 5 to 15 millimetres...in length; the queen ants are larger.

Also, the heading for this section says, "TFAs for you, if you want them", but you only gave me a link to one article. Are there any others? Corinne (talk) 00:40, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Drat! I knew it didn't sound right but couldn't spot the error; thanks for that. I've fixed it. On the other question: yes, there will be others. - Dank (push to talk) 00:52, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Also: yes, "with the queen ants being larger" was correct. Just FYI, it's hard for me to explain the whole ranges of responses we get at FAC to "with" + a present participle. All I can do is just make a judgment call when I see it. - Dank (push to talk) 01:01, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank I understand. I also think that construction should be used sparingly, but I don't think it is incorrect. It's just got to be used in the right place, and not very often. But if there is widespread objection to it, I can see why it would be easier to avoid it altogether. [See below for response to your other comment.]

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 29, 2015: This one has 787 chars so it will need to be a little longer. We get a lot of FAs tagged by WP:MA. The prose tends to be quite good, but they can be technical sometimes; are you interested in these? - Dank (push to talk) 00:55, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank First, I'm glad you weren't upset with me.

I'm not.

Second, the November 29 article looks interesting. If it's short, that means I've got to read the article and add a bit from the article to the paragraph, right?

Yes.

What do you mean "We get a lot of FAs tagged by WP:MA? I'm sorry. I don't know what that means. I'm always interested in history, so yes, once I understand what you're referring to. Corinne (talk) 01:05, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I mean that a lot of Featured Articles that we see at WP:TFA have a tag from Wikiproject Middle Ages on their talk pages, that is, those guys have decided that the article is one they're interested in. On the upside, the writing tends to be good, and the writers are knowledgeable and friendly. On the downside, there's a bit of a learning curve. But sure, I'll start giving you those. - Dank (push to talk) 01:29, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Thanks! Corinne (talk) 01:35, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

With Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 29, 2015, and TFAs in general, time is of the essence, as the lawyers say. I'd prefer not to notify the nominator until they have a summary to look at, and Brian and Chris would like for me to notify nominators as soon as possible ... they'd like for nominators to have a couple of weeks to work on the article, if it needs work, before it hits the Main Page. If you'd like to do some research on how to handle these Middle Ages articles before you give it a try, then I'll take this one and you can do the next one. - Dank (push to talk) 14:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

O.K. I'll do that. Corinne (talk) 15:23, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank, was I supposed to do the summary for Israel the Grammarian (Nov. 29)? Is that why you said "Time is of the essence?" If so, I'm very sorry. I guess it's because my talk page is getting so full of different things that, if you assigned it to me, I didn't see it or didn't remember. Regarding doing research on articles about the Middle Ages/medieval history, I don't know where I'm supposed to look. I found a list of past featured articles organized by subject matter, and in the history section there is a long list, and I saw only one on the Middle Ages, History of Lithuania (1219–95), but when I clicked on it I only saw the full article. Did you want me to look at TFA summaries of those types of articles? If so, where would I find them? Corinne (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

This is the list of Middle-Ages FAs. Just pick out a few that interest you and read the lead sections. Don't worry about getting up to speed; I'll always go through after you're finished. I'll try to be clearer about which articles I'm giving you. - Dank (push to talk) 01:22, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thank you. I've already read one, and I will read more. I have to ask you, though, something that puzzles me. You said to read the lead sections. Does that mean that the summaries we write for the Main Page then become the lead of the article? I know leads can be quite a bit longer than the summaries we write. So, what is the connection between the summaries we write and the leads of articles? What am I supposed to be looking for, or learning from, in the leads of the articles on the Middle Ages? Corinne (talk) 21:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

My work at TFA hasn't usually been reproduced in the article lead, unless someone decided they liked the way I put something. It's not necessary to read our Middle Ages articles, if it doesn't feel like a useful exercise. - Dank (push to talk) 21:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thanks for your reply. Sorry to bother you. I know you're usually busy. I guess you thought that it would help me to become more familiar with the subject matter, and I'm sure you're right. I've read (and copyedited) a few Middle Ages articles, but I certainly wouldn't mind reading more. Corinne (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Sarah Chauncey Woolsey

Hello, Corinne. Does this name mean anything to you? You might be interested in my talk page note. Rothorpe (talk) 18:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe No, I had never heard of her, nor any of her books. Perhaps the books were outdated by the time I was reading children's books. I wanted to ask you about one of the titles in the left-hand column. It's called A Round Dozen, and it is followed by "by Roberts Brothers". When I hovered the mouse over Roberts Brothers, it says they were publishers. (a) Shouldn't it say, "published by Roberts Brothers"? and (b) why is the publisher given for this book and not the others?

Quite so. I'll change it - or do you think it should be removed? I'm inclined to keep it; others may appear. I first heard of What Katy Did long ago, though couldn't have named its author.

I have no opinion about the title of the article.

I was curious about the question raised in the comment just above yours, so I was reading the article about Calvin Coolidge to see if he was president while Woolsey was writing, and he wasn't. I could find no connection, except that there apparently were quite a few Coolidges in New England. See Calvin Coolidge#Birth and family history. Corinne (talk) 02:49, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! Rothorpe (talk) 03:41, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Marie Serneholt

If you want to, please take a look at the article about Marie Serneholt, which is this weeks selected TAFI article. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 16:27, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Precious again

teaching English to speakers of other languages
Thank you for quality collaborative contributions to articles such as Cucurbita, teaching English to speakers of other languages, achieving to make "sentences clear and concise, flow smoothly, and make sense", for exquisite edit summaries, for a bounty of inspiration on your user page full of colourful and peaceful images, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:56, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

A year ago, you were recipient no. 1032 of Precious, a prize of QAI! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:47, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt Thank you so much, Gerda! You cheered me up. Your recognition and praise mean a lot to me. Thank you for thinking of me. I hope you are well and enjoying the fall. Best regards, Corinne (talk) 16:25, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

David Rolf

Dank and Rothorpe I need both of your opinions:

In response to a request for a copy-edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests, I have been reading and copy-editing the article on David Rolf. It was pretty well written as it was; I only made a few small changes. However, there is something that is bothering me, and I'd like your opinion. In the lead, the first sentence of the second paragraph is:

• Rolf grew up in Cincinnati and was influenced by members of his family, including his mother, who worked as a unionized teacher, and his grandfathers, one of whom was a General Motors employee and United Automobile Workers (UAW) member who participated in labor demonstrations, and the other, his paternal grandfather, a Procter & Gamble employee who funded law school and eventually became a lawyer and politician.

Well, now that I look at it, there are two things that are bothering me. I'll take the easy one first:

1) Do you think the sentence is too long? If so, how would you break it up?

(a) Rolf grew up in Cincinnati. He was influenced by... (and all the rest).

(b) Growing up in Cincinnati, Rolf was influenced by... (not really breaking the sentence up, but the sentence could still be broken up)

(c) Rolf grew up in Cincinnati and was influenced by members of his family, including his mother, who worked as a unionized teacher, and his grandfathers. [BREAK SENTENCE HERE] His maternal grandfather was a General motors employee....... His paternal grandfather was a Procter & Gamble employee who....

2) The other thing that bothered me was "a Procter & Gamble employee who funded law school". It wasn't clear to me what was meant by "who funded law school". I figured it was "who paid for law school" because right after that it says he "eventually became a lawyer", but I think "who funded law school" sounds odd. (Also, it says that David Rolf's father was a lawyer, so I thought, maybe he was paying for his son's law school education.) Later, in the second paragraph in David Rolf#Early life and education, we read:

• He observed the evolution of his paternal grandfather's career, who worked a third-shift job at a Procter & Gamble soap factory in order to fund law school, eventually becoming a lawyer and local politician.

Here, "worked...at a Procter & Gamble soap factor in order to fund law school", is a little clearer, but I think I still prefer "in order to pay for law school" or "in order to put himself through law school". What do you think? Corinne (talk) 01:25, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

1. I prefer version C. 2. Yes, that school doesn't need funding. 'In order to pay for' is plain English. Rothorpe (talk) 02:21, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't have time to copyedit much more than the articles at TFA, FAC, Milhist A-class, and Milhist Peer Review. Sorry. - Dank (push to talk) 03:03, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Barnstars

Vsmith I've never given much thought to collecting and prominently displaying the few barnstars I've received, but I've been thinking that it might be nice to put them all in one place. Is there any way to find them easily and put them on my user page? I think it would be too tedious to search for them manually. Corinne (talk) 23:43, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Sorry - never bothered with those, just archive them and roll on. Guess you could do a search on your talk archives for "barnstar" or something like that. Well - I did keep one on my /experimental subpage from Feb. 06 because it was personalized and neat. Vsmith (talk) 03:32, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Vsmith O.K. Thanks. Corinne (talk) 14:21, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2015)

A continuum of goods and services Hello, Corinne. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Goods and services Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Marie Serneholt • Allegra Versace Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:16, 16 November 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

FAC request

Hi Corinne, I would be really grateful if you could do a prose review of this article. Thanks, —Vensatry _(Talk) 07:05, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Vensatry I will. Normally, I would ask you to post a request at the WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests page, but since I'm already working on an article there, I can't accept another assignment on that page until I finish that one. I will post questions and concerns here. I skimmed the FAC review page to which you provided a link. I saw there was some discussion of "works predominantly" (but didn't read it carefully). I also wonder about that phrase. The verb "works" has a kind of general meaning; it doesn't say much by itself. I prefer something closer to what she actually does.

• An actress who has featured predominantly in American and British films

• An actress who has appeared mainly in American and British films

• An actress who appears mainly in American and British films

• An actress whose career thus far has been mainly in American and British films

- Corinne (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Providing link to the article: Freida Pinto. Corinne (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe I haven't received a reply from Vensatry, so I'd like to ask you for your thoughts. Corinne (talk) 19:18, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I like the second one best. Viva the present perfect! Rothorpe (talk) 21:38, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe Thanks, and I agree. Here's another one for you. The very next sentence is:

• She was born and raised in Mumbai, India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.

(You'll see in the revision history that I added the comma after "India", following the model of city + state: ...Chicago, Illinois,...) But upon second look, I wondered if it would read better as:

• She was born and raised in Mumbai in India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.

Do you like "in Mumbai, India,..." or "in Mumbai in India,...", or even "in the city of Mumbai in India"? Does the first one look and sound too much like an address? Corinne (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Of course she was born and raised in Bombay, India, actually. Thus does English pay for being a world language... Any example which shows the postparenthetical comma after a location is fine by me, as there are so many missing in WP. And I usually go for the shortest version, which that happens to be. Rothorpe (talk) 23:16, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

O.K. I'll leave it as it is, then. Thank you. Corinne (talk) 23:42, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

@Corinne and Rothorpe: Sorry for the delay in getting back; I was terribly busy in real life for the past two days. Actually, I wanted Corinne to review the article. Thanks for the copyedits. I can see some improvements in prose. As for this sentence – 'She was born and raised in Mumbai, India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.' – I don't think a comma is needed after India as the second clause is a dependent one. What say? —Vensatry _(Talk) 09:47, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

I'd say the comma is essential to seal off the parenthesis that is 'India'. Rothorpe (talk) 14:07, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Fine by me. Thanks to both of you! —Vensatry _(Talk) 06:41, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Oba Chandler

If you find time for it, please take a look at the article about Oba Chandler. It is a article that I have edited a lot over the years. So any improvements etc are welcomed. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 09:32, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Bot automation at Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement

Greetings WikiProject TAFI members!

Over the past two weeks, there has been extensive discussion on introducing bot automation to assist with maintenance of the Today's Articles for Improvement project. A bot has now been approved for trial and will carry out the weekly duties. The bots first run will occur around 00:00, 22 November 2015 (UTC) (midnight on Sunday).

If you have been assisting any of the weekly maintenance tasks, please refrain from doing so this week. The bot needs to be tested and proven it can do the job, and it only gets one chance per week. The tasks will include:

• Adding the new scheduled article to Wikipedia talk:Today's articles for improvement and removing the entry from Wikipedia:Articles for improvement
• Set up the schedule pages for the new TAFI, except the adding of an image and caption
• Adding {{TAFI}} to the new article for improvement, remove {{TAFI}} from last week's article and add {{Former TAFI}} to the talk page
• Notify relevant WikiProjects that the new TAFI is within their scope
• Send a mass message to everyone on the notification list of the new TAFI selection

Updating the accomplishments and archiving selections is still done manually, along with daily tasks such as adding approved entries to the articles for improvement page. These will become automated in the near future.

We hope the bot proves to serve well, and by carrying out the routine housekeeping tasks we can boost the overall efficiency and effectiveness of the project. MusikBot thanks you for your service in helping with the weekly tasks in the past, and for your cooperation during this trial period :)

Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:48, 21 November 2015 (UTC) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • for all project notifications

Is this what you meant to say?

Tryptofish I am not very knowledgeable about the workings of ArbCom, but I hated to see what you've been going through recently, and I wanted to express some kind of support for you. I've been reading all the comments on your talk page, and I came across a sentence you wrote that I wanted to ask you about. It's in this edit [8], and it is this sentence:

• If one looks at my initial reaction after the block was lifted, none of what I am doing in this poll would ever have happened if some members of ArbCom (with, let it be noted, some notable exceptions, who you can see commenting wisely in some talk sections above) got defensive and in effect lawyered up, or actually went on an offensive and started making further attacks on me.

I wonder if this is what you really meant to say. Shouldn't it read:

• If one looks at my initial reaction after the block was lifted, none of what I am doing in this poll would ever have happened if some members of ArbCom (with, let it be noted, some notable exceptions, who you can see commenting wisely in some talk sections above) had not got[ten– in American English] defensive and in effect lawyered up, or actually went on an offensive and started making further attacks on me.

Weren't you missing the negative there? This is now early in the discussion, but, if I am right, you may want to correct it so that anyone reading this in the future is not confused by it. If I am wrong, then I guess I don't understand what you were saying. Best regards, Corinne (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! You are absolutely correct, and I'll fix that now. Honestly, this whole thing is just frying my brain. But you made a good catch there. (As expected for a good copy-editor!) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:09, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

User:Tryptofish I think the reactions you've gotten to your informal poll are interesting, and probably somewhat predictable. Your friends will support and encourage you, and those editors who are normally contentious will continue to be so, and some seem to be using your page to vent about ArbCom, going a bit off-topic. I can certainly understand your reasons for wanting to conduct the informal poll (may be useful in the future, may influence some ArbCom members either now or later), but at some point I think you will probably say to yourself that further discussion is a waste of your valuable energy, and that you have more important things to do; only you can decide when that will be. I wish you the best, though. Corinne (talk) 00:31, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Understood, truly. And thank you. Barring the very unexpected, this is the last discussion that I plan. Do this, get done with the awful GMO case, and then archive everything at my user talk and go back to content editing. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:30, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and the people who have been sympathetic to me are not just my friends, also some admins and other editors who never posted at my talk before. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Vaudeville

Rothorpe If you'd like to hear an amusing song, listen to "How can they tell that I'm Irish?" The recording is at the lower right-hand corner in the article on Vaudeville. Be sure to put the volume up to at least 75% on your computer so you can catch as many of the words as possible. Corinne (talk) 02:25, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Almost nothing amuses me nowadays, but I'll give it a try... Rothorpe (talk) 02:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

They can 'tell that he's a Mick' because of the accent, presumably. Which was largely impenetrable. However, a good set of pictures to go with it. I couldn't get a sound out of Wikipedia, but loud and (at least in theory) clear at YouTube. Rothorpe (talk) 02:54, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe So it didn't amuse you at all? I thought it was a clever song, and sung well. What pictures are you referring to? Corinne (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

My hearing isn't perfect and all those years of EFL... The pictures come with the version of the song at https://www.youtube.com. Just type in the title. Rothorpe (talk) 14:17, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2015)

Coffee production in Cuba – Robusta coffee beans at a coffee plantation in Viñales valley in Cuba Hello, Corinne. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Coffee production in Cuba Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Goods and services • Marie Serneholt Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

Elections

Vsmith I see in my watch list that a lot of editors I know (through editing) have gotten a notice about the current ArbCom (or is it Arbitration Committee, or is that the same thing?) elections. I didn't get one. Am I allowed to vote? If not, why are some other editors who are not administrators being invited to vote? Corinne (talk) 01:48, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015 page

An editor is eligible to vote who:

(i) has registered an account before Wednesday 00:00, 28 October 2015

(ii) has made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday 00:00, 1 November 2015 and,

(iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of their vote.

I'd say you are quite eligible. I don't know what criteria the mass mailing used - maybe those who voted last year (?) Vsmith (talk) 03:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Vsmith Thank you, V. I did vote last year (I think). Maybe it's because I changed my user name within the past year. Corinne (talk) 03:08, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah, that's just what I came here to say. Rothorpe (talk) 03:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish I read your recommendations regarding the best people to vote for in the ArbCom elections, but now I can't find them. I wanted to look at them again, and then vote. Can you direct me to them? Thanks. Corinne (talk) 16:55, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

User:Tryptofish/ACE2015. Also, if you go to the candidates description page or most other election-related pages, there is a template at the bottom that links to all the voters guides (but of course we all know that mine is the best!). Thanks for asking! As for that notice of eligibility to vote, I see that a whole lot more went out today, so they seem to be coming in successive batches. (I also saw that some notices were attempted to be delivered to article talk pages, so it's not the most infallible software.) In fact, I got mine today, even though I already voted yesterday! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish Thanks. I just voted. I clicked on "Submit Vote". Then it gave me an option to save a "receipt" as a record of my vote, but I didn't need that, so I hit the back arrow in the upper left corner of my screen, and it said "Hello, Corinne, you have voted..." then gave an option saying that if I wanted to vote again, I could, but I didn't want to. Then I used the back arrow a few times to get back to my talk page. I hope that using the back arrow doesn't cancel out the votes I submitted. Corinne (talk) 22:36, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

You are very welcome, of course. And I see that you finally got the invitation, below! There is a way to check whether your vote was recorded (or if you need to do it over). If you go to any of the election pages, look for a link to the Voters Log. It's a list of everyone who has voted. You can page through until the end, and look to see if you are listed there or not. If you are listed, you are all set. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish I found my user name there, so I guess my vote was recorded. I'm sorry to bother you again. I wanted to ask you about something I saw on your talk page and maybe other talk pages, too. It's "tl;dr". What is that? Corinne (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No problem (and I'm watchlisting your talk page now). TL;DR stands for "too long; didn't read". --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh... Thank you. I can see how that could be useful. Corinne (talk) 22:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC) Right after I saved this, I saw a notice at the top of the page that said something like "This month is Asian Month", but it contains a grammatical or typographical error. Corinne (talk) 23:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC) Now I don't know where I saw it. It's not on the Main Page, and it's not at the top of my watchlist or talk page. It was one of those banners that one sees from time to time at the top of either the main page or the watchlist page. Corinne (talk) 23:02, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

There are pages like MediaWiki talk:Watchlist-details, where various messages of this sort are prepared (other categories of notices are described at the top). I wasn't able to track down which kind of site notice that particular one is, but I think the place you could report that, if you want to, is Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Asian Month. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you again, Tryptofish. I looked at that talk page, then looked again for the banner and couldn't find it. I decided not to leave a comment, at least not at present. I wonder if it was removed as soon as it was added because someone noticed the typo. Corinne (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No, I've been seeing it on and off for several days. When I see it, I very quickly (as in, without even reading it) click on the "dismiss" button, after which I never see it again as long as I am logged in. But if you delete all cookies on your browser, and/or exit and restart the browser and log in again, the notice will come back. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I just found it. It's at the top of Climate of Argentina, an article I've been copy-editing. However, it has been changed since I saw it twenty minutes ago. Before, it had a phrase that included "you contributions". Of course, "you" should have been "your". But that phrase is not there anymore. Now there is another error. It says this month is "the Wikipedia Asian Month". There should be no "the". I think I'm not going to say anything about it. Probably someone from the project will notice it. Corinne (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC) And why is it at the top of the "Climate of Argentina" article? Is Argentina now considered part of Asia? ;) Corinne (talk) 00:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

The World Is Flat. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:03, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Argentina

I'll leave the credit to you. I also happen to be fairly young and headstrong, so apologies for any consternation that it might have caused you. I'll hop on over to the requests page and see what I can do. dschslava 01:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twomcvms (talk • contribs)

Twomcvms Thank you. No problem. Just a word of caution regarding the requests page: you can only accept one article for copy-editing at a time. When I first started working on that page, I would accept two or three that looked interesting to me and work on all three at the same time. I was told I couldn't do that. You have to finish one, and add the "Done" template, before you can accept another one. Once you accept one, try to finish it in a day or two for a short article and within three or four days for a longer one. The GOCE keeps statistics to show how quickly we get the copy-editing done (you can look for the statistics). Finally, when you finish copy-editing an article, you can post the GOCE template on the talk page of the article, below most of the other things at the beginning of the talk page. See the templates in the box at the upper right corner of my talk page. (Use the first one if you are posting the template on the day you finished the copy-edit. The date and your user name will appear automatically. Use the second one if you are posting on a later day. You would manually enter the date you finished the copy-edit and manually add your user name. Be sure to put your user name, not mine.)

If you have any questions, you can ask User:Baffle gab1978. Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~ You forgot to sign your post just above. Corinne (talk) 02:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Corinne I'll just lurk about in the depths of wikipedia and catch the little errors for now, as I'm going to be really busy soon. Thanks for the advice.

dschslava 02:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I know

There should be a en dash in that article. So you are correct. From what I can see atleast. If you have more questions or thoughts please contact me again. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 22:23, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

TFAs for you

• December 11 or 12, your choice. - Dank (push to talk) 01:50, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
• December 16. - Dank (push to talk) 01:33, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
• December 15. - Dank (push to talk) 20:51, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
• December 19, but only if Middle Ages articles interest you enough that you're willing to copyedit most of the ones that go through FAC. We'll start transitioning now to a job that involves both FAC and TFA, as much or as little as you want to do. - Dank (push to talk) 23:45, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
• December 20 ... same deal, do this one if you want to also copyedit art history FACs. - Dank (push to talk) 02:49, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
• Okay, you've done well. Which two wikiprojects would you like to do FACs and TFAs for? (You can change your mind at any time.) - Dank (push to talk) 15:49, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I guess Geosciences (especially Geography and Geology) and History (other possible ones are Paleontology, Astronomy, Engineering, Animals/Zoology, Botany). Corinne (talk) 23:09, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Few articles have WP:HIST's wikilabel on the talk page, because that wikiproject is mostly defunct. You probably want a more active wikiproject. - Dank (push to talk) 23:16, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank Is this the page I should be looking at to find the most active projects? Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProjects by changes (I thought I saw another similar list but can't find it now.) Not many of the topics I named are near the top of that list. I guess I don't care which topic, within those areas I listed, plus literature, biography, exploration, entomology, ecology, and birds. Can you help me find two active projects? Corinne (talk) 23:40, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Sure, give me a few days. - Dank (push to talk) 01:26, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank I'll do December 11, about the fish. Thanks! By when should I have it done? Corinne (talk) 02:09, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

There isn't a deadline on doing it, exactly, but Brian and Chris like for nominators to have two weeks' notice that it will appear on the Main Page, so I'll leave a note on their user talk page no later than this Friday. It would be nice if it's done by then, but not necessary. - Dank (push to talk) 02:17, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank O.K. I will get to it later today. May I ask you something? You'll see in the next section below this that an editor asked if I had copy-edited the "Notes" section on an article, Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman, that I had copy-edited about two weeks ago. Upon looking at the article again, I remember now that I was unable to access the "Notes" section. I've tried by clicking "Edit" in that section and by clicking "Edit" at the top of the article. I only see "Notes - Reflist". How can I access the notes so that I can copy-edit them? Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving. Corinne (talk) 17:37, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

In the editing window, the footnotes appear throughout the text, just as references do. - Dank (push to talk) 18:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank I got it down to 1075 characters. I was trying to figure out a way to incorporate this short sentence into a nearby sentence: "The pallid sturgeon can live up to a century", but couldn't. Also, I saw "the pallid sturgeon" is repeated a few times and probably should be reduced. I'd have to give it more thought (and possibly do more re-arranging) to accomplish both of those. If you do manage to reduce those, perhaps the fact that it matures at about 15 years could be re-added. Feel free to work on it, as always. Corinne (talk) 01:00, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Sure, happy to help, I'll do a bit more on it tomorrow morning. - Dank (push to talk) 04:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Wow! You did a great job improving the December 11 summary. I'm sorry you had to do so much, though; I hope I haven't disappointed you. I guess I wasn't aware I was free to change the wording as much as you did. I thought I was just supposed to shorten the summary by removing as much as possible to get it down to the right number of characters. What you did with this summary is what I normally do when I'm copy-editing articles for GOCE, so I'm capable of doing that, but I'm sure you could probably improve whatever I come up with . Corinne (talk) 15:55, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm not disappointed ... I'm only guessing what people will want. I'm glad you liked it. - Dank (push to talk) 15:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Btw, after recent discussions at WT:MAIN, I'm putting more effort into raising the character count to the mid 1100s, if it's below that. I just expanded this TFA a bit. - Dank (push to talk) 16:36, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Can I do the summary for December 15, December 16, or both? Corinne (talk) 01:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank I finished December 16. It's at 1101 characters. What do you think? Corinne (talk) 03:53, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I removed one linked word; otherwise it looks excellent. I'll look again tomorrow. - Dank (push to talk) 17:31, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank I finished December 15. That one was more difficult than December 16. I got it down to 1129 characters. What do you think? Corinne (talk) 03:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank I finished December 19. It's at 1194 characters. I don't know if you want more taken out. If so, perhaps "including the right to a mint" could be taken out. Corinne (talk) 01:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Brava. This one and Dec 16th are really excellent. - Dank (push to talk) 02:10, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thanks! I just finished December 20. It's at 1149 characters. Corinne (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2015 (UTC) Corinne (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank I just saw your edits at [9] and read your edit summary. I think both the "s" on "painting" and the re-wording are excellent catches. I didn't like that "was making" anyway, and I think you're right to make it clear that the motivation for this painting is unknown. I also wonder about this sentence:

• Etty was best known for his paintings of nude or near-nude women in historical and mythological settings but had also painted men involved in various forms of combat.

I'm wondering whether this would sound smoother:

• Though best-known for his paintings of nude or near-nude women in historical and mythological settings, Etty had also painted men engaged in various forms of combat.

[Changed "involved" to "engaged".] What do you think? – Corinne (talk) 00:34, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Iridescent, those were your edits ... thoughts? - Dank (push to talk) 00:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Dank and Iridescent Oh my gosh, I just realized those were Iridescent's edits. I was so used to seeing a few edits by Dank after I finished working on a summary that I didn't notice Iridescent's user name there. So, Iridescent, the accolade goes to you. Corinne (talk) 01:20, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Not "Though best known"; Etty is a quintessentially English topic, and "Though" to start a sentence is an archaism in BrEng which only really survives in "Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer". I'd be reluctant to use its BrEng equivalent, "Although best known…", as starting a sentence with a conjunction on the main page will bring down the wrath of Eric Corbett (and light up WP:ERRORS like a christmas tree). This is a bit of a tricky sentence, as although Etty's best remembered now for nude history paintings he painted pretty much every subject you can think of, and the point being made is "men wrestling wasn't a significant departure for him, even though it may seem incongruous to readers who only know him for nude women" (which will be most readers who know the name at all). Maybe While nowadays best-known for his paintings of nude or near-nude women in historical and mythological settings, Etty work also included men engaged in various forms of combat, but that's a bit of a mouthful. ‑ Iridescent 20:10, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Iridescent Hmm. That's interesting about "though". I hadn't heard that before. (It's too bad the Brits gave it up; it's quicker and lighter than "although".) Regarding the sentence, do you really need "nowadays"? Since the "best known for" is true for many but not all readers, how about using "perhaps" instead of "nowadays"? Also, instead of "Etty's work also included", how about "Etty's work often depicted" or "Etty's work also depicted"?

• While perhaps best known for his paintings of nude or near-nude women in historical and mythological settings, Etty's work often depicted men engaged in various forms of combat. – Corinne (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

• "Often" is stretching it—he churned out around 1000 significant works in his lifetime, of which perhaps half a dozen were combat scenes (The Combat is probably the best-known). He's a bit of a pain to summarize briefly, because he was so prolific in so many different fields, which is why the lead of William Etty is longer than a fair few articles. I don't really see a problem with "best known for" unvarnished; it's undoubtedly true that those who know of him, will know him best for his nude female studies. "True for many but not all readers"; with a few exceptions like Sky, Earth, etc there's no topic with which one can assume every reader is already familiar (30% of American adults are unaware of the date of the 9/11 attacks), and "best known for" carries an implicit "best known among those who know". ‑ Iridescent 23:40, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Iridescent O.K. I understand. So you're saying, just "While best known for..." How about "also" instead of "often" in the second clause? Corinne (talk) 23:44, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

"Etty had also painted"? (I wouldn't lose much sleep over this one; as low-traffic TFAs go, this will be right up there. Some Ettys work as clickbait—the most-viewed DYKs in June and August this year were both on Etty—but this one doesn't have either a particularly eyecatching image, a striking story for the blurb, or a title that piques the curiosity. If and when Musidora: The Bather 'At the Doubtful Breeze Alarmed', which has all three, runs, it will be a different matter.) ‑ Iridescent 00:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman

Hello, I am not sure if you already did this or not but was wondering if you proofread the footnotes for any problem as well as the main body. Thank you. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

User:KAVEBEAR I guess I had not proofread the footnotes. I guess I didn't even realize those were footnotes. Thank you for pointing this out to me. As I copy-edited the footnotes, I also made a few more small edits to the main text. I changed "his" to "Henry's" twice to avoid ambiguity. If you prefer "Pitman" or "Hoʻolulu", we can change them. Corinne (talk) 00:35, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Srimanthudu

I feel very happy to inform that Srimanthudu, an article you copy-edited upon a request at WP:GOCE/REQ, has become a GA today. It also happens to be my 20th consecutive one (a streak of 20-0) and i thank you for the c/e which helped me a lot. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Pavanjandhyala Thank you for telling me, and congratulations! I was glad to help. Corinne (talk) 18:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2015)

The First Geneva Convention (1864) is one of the earliest formulations of international law. Hello, Corinne. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: International law Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Coffee production in Cuba • Goods and services Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

barnstar

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		For improving Trevor Kincaid. LavaBaron (talk) 00:49, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, LavaBaron! It's much appreciated. Corinne (talk) 13:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Devadasu

Hi Corrine, this is Srivin, thanks for copyediting Devadasu, regarding the "clarification needed" tags, I dont think it is needed anyway. Please nominate the article. Srivin (talk) 13:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Srivin First, you're welcome. Second, I looked again and re-read my edits, including the two "clarification needed" tags and accompanying notes to editors. Those things really need clarification. If you don't clarify them, there is ambiguity, which is not good in expository writing. These are rather simple to clear up. Just answer the questions that I posed in the notes that accompany the tags. If you need help, perhaps Kailash29792 can help you. Third, I've never nominated an article for anything. Baffle gab1978, am I permitted to do that? If so, how do I do that? Corinne (talk) 14:05, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Srivin, you have already nominated the article for GA status. All you have to do is, clarify the issues and wait for a reviewer to take up. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 02:13, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

What was that template?

Baffle gab1978 What was that template you gave me a while back that I could put at the top of an article to ask editors not to edit the article until I am finished copy-editing? I couldn't find it on my talk page. Corinne (talk) 02:08, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Not quite "fixed the ping", as pings require a signature to be placed in the same edit as when they are made/corrected. Also, I got pinged for this as well likely because you transcluded Baffle gab1978's user page. At any rate, the template should be {{GOCE inuse}}. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Drcrazy102 Thank you! I am so sorry. I hadn't pinged anyone in a while, and I got the template wrong. I am very sorry about that. Corinne (talk) 02:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

No worries Corinne, ironically I just finished an updated version of WP:Notifications when I got notified via the transclusion. Have a good week; Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 10:52, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, I don't see your pings because I've turned them off in my preferences. I don't particularly like pings; i think they're analagous to shouting at someone across a room rather than walking up to the person and speaking directly. "Oi, you over there—yeh you! I've just mentioned you in a conversation, you'd better listen cos we're all talking about you over here." That's not my style—your page is on my watchlist anyway, and you can always use {{whisperback}} if needed. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:35, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2015)

Princess Leia with characteristic hairstyle cosplayed. Hello, Corinne. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Princess Leia Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: International law • Coffee production in Cuba Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

Text formatting question

I have just finished copy-editing the article Edith Södergran. Throughout the article, but especially in the section Edith Södergran#Bibliography, the titles of some of her poems or collections of poems, which are mostly in Swedish, are written first in italics and followed (usually in parentheses) by the translation of the title in English, in Roman (regular) font and enclosed in quotation marks.

I wondered whether the quotation marks were needed around the English translation of the titles. I had seen somewhere in the MoS that translated titles should not be in italics and should not be in quotation marks, but now I can't find it. If you can show me the relevant guideline in the MoS, I would really appreciate it.

I even wonder whether the titles in Swedish need to be in italics. I wonder whether it makes a difference whether it is a title of a poem or a title of a book, because in English, according to the MoS, a book is a major work and is supposed to be italicized while a poem is a minor work and is to be in quotation marks. Does that hold true even if the title is in a foreign language?

Rwood128 Do you know anything about this? Corinne (talk) 02:09, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Red user name

Drcrazy102 I saw an invitation to vote on wishlists at the top of my page, so I looked, saw a category titled "Editing", clicked on that, and read the various proposals. There is one I thought would be very helpful, so I voted support (had to correct an asterisk to a number symbol) here: [10]. After I saved, I saw that my user name was red. Why is that? It's also red in Commons (the pictures). Corinne (talk) 03:10, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Can you help me with the question I posed in the section above this? Corinne (talk) 03:11, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

That's more because you haven't created a profile page on WP:Meta or WP:Commons. They are separate wiki-places, as well as WP:Wikinews. Each one uses a "different" login, even though Editors have a "universal" login - hence the fact that you could edit without creating a Meta or Commons account first, because you already had one. There are a lot of technical details which I don't have a clue about, but this is the bare-bones reason for why you have a "red user link"; you don't have a profile on those servers - yet. Once you make a profile page on those servers, the links should change to the normal blue colour which indicates that the page-link works, i.e. that there is a profile page at the target URL. Hope I made some/enough sense in that ramble.

I'm just responding to your question/s about the diff-link template from User talk:Drcrazy102#Murder of Meredith Kercher, I'll be a few minutes while I hunt down the coding parameters of the templates to better explain what I was implying, then I'll see about finding something for your questions above but it should be somewhere in WP:MOS, probably WP:MOS#Naming maybe?. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 03:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)