Talk:Ethiopia

The phrase "known to scientists" in the lead

There's a discussion about the phrase "known to scientists" going on Wikipedia:NPOVN#Attribution_issue_at_Ethiopia_-_do_we_need_to_say_.22known_to_scientists.22.3F. Comments are welcome –Jérôme (talk) 13:27, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

An incredible argument, indeed. "Known" is surely the stronger term, as "known to scientists" may carry an implication that some non-scientists know something different. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Thanks. I don't know why Til decided to pick this to edit war about, maybe it was simply because it was me reverting him, which I did simply because it was so obviously wrong (and pov, although he seems to think he was the one following NPOV). Dougweller (talk) 15:06, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Was Ethiopia previously landlocked?

I don't know all that much about Eritrea, but I know it was considered part of Ethiopia for a while. Now that Eritrea is independent, we know that Ethiopia is definitely a landlocked country, but was it landlocked BEFORE Eritrea became part of Ethiopia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:56, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

In general, yes. The Red Sea coastal regions, right down to Somalia, were part of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th century onwards (to at least the mid-19th century I think). Not sure exactly when that ended, but at any rate Ethiopia certainly didn't have any kind of effective control over any area near the coast in the late 19th/early 20th century. 83.254.159.43 (talk) 05:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

—168.187.28.120 (talk) 18:07, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

You haven't explained what you think is erroneous, but I've tweaked the coordinates in the infobox slightly. If you still think that the coordinates need to be corrected, please post a clear explantion of the problem below, including the {{geodata-check}} template, and someone will be along to address your concerns. Deor (talk) 10:17, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Dictatorship, one-party state or an authoritarian democracy

Is Ethiopia a dictatorship, a de facto one-party state or an authoritarian democracy (in the mold of Russia)? --TIAYN (talk) 20:40, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Rastafarianism

Rastafarianism is not a religion of Ethiopia, nor are Rastafarians one of Ethiopia's recognized populations. They are therefore WP:OFFTOPIC in the lede. See the Israel wikipage for the similar Hebrew Israelites, who by contrast do have a notable presence in that country. Middayexpress (talk) 21:55, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

:Nonsense, there is a significant Rastafari presence in Ethiopia, do not try to sound like an authority on things you are clearly not Binghi Dad (talk) 22:31, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, and there's a tourist presence too. Neither is sizable or one of the Ethiopian government's recognized local populations. Also, kindly refrain from using anonymous ips. Middayexpress (talk) 22:44, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

:::It is obvious that you have issues. However wikipedia does not care what your issues are or if you consider Rastafarians (not -ism) something like a tourist movement in your esteemed opinion. Ethiopia is significant as a spiritual homeland to the Rastafari movement and this fact should not be unilaterally and repeatedly censored from the lede by you. Binghi Dad (talk) 22:51, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm aware that Rastafarians claim Ethiopia as their spiritual homeland, just as the Hebrew Israelites claim Jerusalem as their spiritual homeland. That doesn't change the fact that Rastafarians similarly are not one of Ethiopia's officially recognized populations nor is Rastafarianism one of Ethiopia's major religions. Neither have roots in the country, so mentioning them in the lede when not even Ethiopia's own actual populations are is undue. Ironically, you also simultaneously removed historical material on the Kingdom of Aksum (an actual Ethiopian entity) from the Book of Aksum. Middayexpress (talk) 23:22, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

"Nonsense, there is a significant Rastafari presence in Ethiopia", you must be joking. If this community was "significant" as you claim why did you not provide a source? Seeing how "significant" they are it would have been quite easy for you to find one. I would also like to point out how you removed sourced content without a legitimate reason. There is absolutely no reason for such act on Wikipedia. AcidSnow (talk)

You must be joking, it is absurdly easy to verify that the Rastafari presence in Ethiopia is significant - and even includes non-immigrants, are you saying you did not know this without a source? That is only why I disputed the edit, nothing to do with Aksum. Binghi Dad (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

You have completely missed the point if this discussion. You might want to see WP:VERIFY and WP:UNDUE. As for this, "That is only why I disputed the edit, nothing to do with Aksum", there is no reason to take a dispute out on Wikipedia. That is a complete violation of Wikipedias policies. AcidSnow (talk) 23:44, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

The WP:BURDEN is not on us to disprove the allegedly "significant" presence of Rastafarians in Ethiopia, but rather for you to prove it. Regardless of whether or not it was a mistake on your part, you also removed the historical testimony on the Kingdom of Aksum's first capital and builder. Middayexpress (talk) 23:50, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::This is starting to look like a case of "article ownership". User Middayexpress feels that he OWNS this article Ethiopia. He looks at it, says, "We're not going to have any mention of Rastafari in MY article." and fights like hell to get it out, including running first and only to his collaborating partner who always backs him up regardless. The important thing you are forgetting though is, even if you do not care for Rastafari in Ethiopia, this still isn't just YOUR article. Binghi Dad (talk) 17:34, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Personal attacks and incivility like the above are both against policy and counterproductive, "Binghi Dad". It's also peculiar that you keep alluding to website policy when you just registered this account a little over a month ago (per WP:NEWBIE, "it is very unlikely for a newcomer to be completely familiar with all of the policies, guidelines, and community standards of Wikipedia when they start editing[...] even the most experienced editors may need a gentle reminder from time to time"). At any rate, the WP:BURDEN is still very much on you to disprove the allegedly "significant" presence of Rastafarians in Ethiopia. More than that, you must also prove that "Ethiopia is also the spiritual homeland of the Rastafari movement" since that's what the wikitext actually indicated. That's a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice, not of personal belief attributed to Rastafarians. It is also undue for the lede, where not even Ethiopia's own actual populations are mentioned. Similarly, asserting that "Israel is also the spiritual homeland of the Hebrew Israelites movement" would be undue for the Israel wikipage's lede (although the Hebrew Israelites do, by contrast, have a sizable presence in that country). Unfortunately, the late User:Til Eulenspiegel (who coincidentally specializes in this area) is no longer with us to provide clarification. Middayexpress (talk) 18:26, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

The above is a living example of your repeated attempts to deflect from the basic simple question at hand, (i.e. Could the Rastafari connection to Ethiopia and Haile Selassie I be noteworthy to readers of this article even though it is not noteworthy to you?) and deflect attention onto me as your opponent. Even if you could make me "go away" by using some technicality or another do you seriously believe to yourself that you are making the "problem" go away? It won't go away, it will come back to bite you and expose you before the whole world in so doing. Binghi Dad (talk) 18:35, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

You might want to stop with the accusations like I recommended earlier. Nowhere does Midday state ""We're not going to have any mention of Rastafari in MY article.". You might want to read WP:NPA and WP:CIV and the others that you previously ignored. AcidSnow (talk) 18:47, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

You're now arguing something different. You wrote above that "Ethiopia is significant as a spiritual homeland to the Rastafari movement and this fact should not be unilaterally and repeatedly censored from the lede by you". Now you are suggesting that the matter is actually whether "could the Rastafari connection to Ethiopia and Haile Selassie I be noteworthy to readers of this article". I actually agree that the latter is probably notable, just not in the lede or on Haile Selassie's image. It would also need qualification since, for one thing, Haile Selassie did not regard himself as a living God and is on record as having expressed confusion over the Rastafarians' worship of him. He was also lambasted by the Rastafarian founder Marcus Garvey, after Haile Selassie had rejected an invitation to attend one of the Garvey organization's functions abroad. Middayexpress (talk) 19:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

::It is your assertion that "Haile Selassie did not regard himself as a living God and is on record as having expressed confusion". I believe this has been explained patiently to you before, but this is only your assertion, since there is no such record of him expressing any confusion, so you must be careful not to prevaricate. Western governments are on record as repeatedly begging him to issue such a clarifying statement but he pointedly refused on several occasions to their considerable disappointment. Not content with that, the Wetsern media such as the BBC and Time Magazine sought to put these words into his mouth following the end of his reign. However all of his public statements regarding the Rastafari movement and directly to the Rastafari movement are on record. We had hoped that you were ready to drop this stick but if you want to take it up again now let us know. Binghi Dad (talk) 19:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Who exactly is "we"? lol The discussion above is between myself, you and AcidSnow, and your account was just registered. It's also amusing that you should try and project Haile Selassie's own assertions onto me and the vague "Western media". But alas, it's indeed Haile Selassie himself who asserted this [1]: "Selassie said, "I am a man; I am mortal. I will be replaced by the oncoming generation. They should never make the mistake of assuming or pretending that a human being is emanated from a deity."" Middayexpress (talk) 20:35, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

A very interesting statement for a man that has "no such record of him expressing any confusion". AcidSnow (talk) 21:05, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::Where did Haile Selassie I ever state "I am confused about this" ??? Where did he ever state any words suggesting to you that he was confused? He was not the least confused and never said he was; thus if you say he admitted to being confused you are "prevaricating" about his words.

Where did he say he did not regard himself as living God? Once again you are falsely putting the very words into his mouth that he was repeatedly requested by Whitehall (on record) to utter, but refused even once to do so during his lifetime. He said he was a man and he was mortal, sure. In case anyone out there is still ignorant about his subtle answer, according to Ethiopian Christianity Jesus Christ is a man and was mortal,in addition to being God. Haile Selassie was asked directly the question if he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. He did not say yes or no, however he wisely gave two points of similarity between himself and Jesus Christ, ie his being a man and mortal, that answer does not rule out their being the same nor does it rule out if he thought he was God (which is not what he was asked). I am quite aware that this very question was the matter of a previously settled arb-com case, which is why I wonder why you have chosen this moment to begin again militating against inclusion of information on Rastafari views, and I strongly question your wisdom in doing so as well. Binghi Dad (talk) 21:42, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

This is quite confusing. you keep asking "where?" when we have always already shown you. What is even more confusing is how you have yet to provided us with anything other than your own original research. It would be nice if you could do something other than that. Anyways, read this: "He wanted to be absolutely clear that he was not a saint or a messiah or whatever. He was just an Emperor of Ethiopia". AcidSnow (talk) 21:50, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

The man indeed could not have been clearer. He was actually an observant Ethiopian Orthodox Christian throughout his lifetime. Middayexpress (talk) 22:08, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

::::::::You cannot show a single quote from him expressly denying being either Jesus or God, although he was on record repeatedly refusing to. He told the Prime Minister of Jamaica in 1966 expressly that he would agree to no such statement, saying "Who am I to tell them what to believe?" It was a similar story with the British government as far as the 1950s. At no point did he once say nor imply he was "confused"; that is a bald faced prevarication. This has all payed out before in arb-com as no doubt you were aware, or should have been. You have only provided materials attacking the Rastafari faith and your opinions about their faith should not be reason for you to censor mention of them fro this article. Binghi Dad (talk) 23:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

You must be joking. Can you at least provide one source backing your statements? Anyways, this whole discussion has become WP:OFFTOPIC. AcidSnow (talk) 23:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you expect me to believe that you - presumably an adult - are honestly incapable of finding any source verifying these statements removed from the article and therefore as far as you are concerned it is all bogus, like you are the supreme judge here and everything has to be run past you to see if it is acceptable? On the contrary it is you who have pulled arguments out of the woodwork to censor mention of a religion because of your expressed opinion of it, and you say I am the one who must be joking, no sir I am not joking Binghi Dad (talk) 23:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Have you read WP:BURDEN? " AcidSnow (talk) 00:11, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::::If you are pretending you do not know these were true statements, and are too lazy to do a simple five second google search in case you honestly were ignorant of these things, what right do you have to lay a burden on me to "prove" them to your satisfaction? Binghi Dad (talk) 00:17, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Then why are you asking us to prove ours when you to could have done the same? This would have nerver became a "burden" for you if you had done it earlier. Anyways, I have yet to make any "attack" against Rastafarianism let alone any form of "censorship". In fact, you asked us to prove that Haile Selassie stated that he was not God after Midday pointed out. Anyways, this disscusion has become WP:OFFTOPIC. You might also want to read: WP:BURDEN, WP:VERIFY, WP:CIVILITY, PERSONALATTACKS, and most of all WP:IDONTLIKEIT. AcidSnow (talk) 00:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::::::No actual quote of Haile Selassie I ever once stating he was not God, was ever found, and once again, this very point has been arbitrated upon. Binghi Dad (talk) 00:34, 11 August 2014 (UTC) "No quote", you must be joking. Midday and I have pointed it out several times. Here it is again: "Selassie said, "I am a man; I am mortal. I will be replaced by the oncoming generation. They should never make the mistake of assuming or pretending that a human being is emanated from a deity."". As you can clearly see, he has stated that he is "mortal" (a human) and that you must not mistake a human (a mortal) for a "deity" (a God). This means that he is not Jesus, a Messiah or a God. I have now broken this quote down for you. Anyways, as I pointed out earlier, you have a clear case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. AcidSnow (talk) 00:52, 11 August 2014 (UTC) :More like you have a case of "ICANTHEARTHAT"... One more time: This entire side argument has been played out thoroughly in arb-com, bringing out a few pages worth of all the recorded statements he gave over the years regarding the Rastafari movement, and never would he dissuade them in the slightest from their faith. At any rate, what does your estimation of the claims of someone else's firm belief system, really have to do with whether the article about them can be linked or mentioned from this one? Binghi Dad (talk) 00:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

You must be joking. I told you several times that this discussion has become off topic but you have refused to acknowledge it. Instead, you asked us constantly to prove pointless things that were off topic. AcidSnow (talk) 01:17, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

You just keep pasting the same irrelevant quote. As for that quote that you "broke down" for me, let me try to explain it like this. If we believe that Haile Selassie I was a man and mortal, and if we believe that Jesus Christ was a man and mortal, and if we believe that one is the reincarnation of the other, then how is that quote any problem for us? But more importantly - and this is what I do have trouble understanding - why should it be a problem for you if that's what we want to believe? And what do you hope to accomplish by mounting your own attack on doctrines Rastafari believe, as a rationale for excluding them as unworthy of mention in this wikipedia article? Thanks Binghi Dad (talk) 01:23, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

"same irrelevant quote", you must be joking. You asked us several times to prove that he said he was not God. So explain to us how it is "irrelevant'? I have never made an "attack" against Rastafaris or their beliefs. So please stop with these personal attacks. You are seriously risking being blocked for this behavior. Anyways, as I stated earlier you are arguing pointless and off topic stuff with me and Midday. AcidSnow (talk) 01:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::Ooh, then I take it from that response then that it is definitely a problem with you if we believe that Haile Selassie is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Binghi Dad (talk) 01:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Take what you want but I doubt it is the truth. Your belief is not the problem but how you keep arguing pointless and off topic things. I don't care what you believe but keep it off Wikipedia. AcidSnow (talk) 01:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I am only here to argue for the continued inclusion of mention of the Rastafari belief as a worthy and notable topic for researchers in this article. Your response was to mount your own direct rebuttal of core Rastafari tenets, and threaten me with block for disagreeing (and agreeing with arb-com). You ought not to get off that easy. Binghi Dad (talk) 02:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I have never threaten you with anything. "Your response", you asked us to prove this! "threaten me with block for disagreeing (and agreeing with arb-com)", what are you talking about? You were warned about being blocked for your inapproabte behavior! Can you please stop making things up? AcidSnow (talk) 02:06, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::As anyone may read above, from the beginning when you raised the quote, I advised you that this was the outcome of an arb-com decision and that your own peculiar reinterpretation of the quote is not at all relevant to the question of including a mention Rastafari on this page. You proceeded to adduce your reasoning that this must mean Haile Selassie cannot be God, even though he pointedly did not even address that particular question at any time (that takes basic reading comprehension). You falsely claimed that His Majesty stated he was confused (about what was he confused?) Your argument constitutes an attack on the religions of other editors and readership among others, then you seek to have me penalized with an admin, just for being here and responding to your falsehoods instead of saying "Sure, that's fine! I have no problem with your attacking other religions as an argument for excluding relevant mention of them, go right ahead." If that's what I was expected to say, go ahead and block me for disagreeing with you. Binghi Dad (talk) 06:30, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Binghi Dad What is all this about ArbCom? ArbCom doesn't make content decisions (I used to be an ArbCom clerk). So what exactly are you claiming? Dougweller (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I certainly support a reliably sourced mention of Rastafari in the article, it clearly passes any notability threshold because in the world rasta and Ethiopia are associated in a reasonably mainstream way. It doesnt seem to me that a significant presence of rastas in Ethiopia is required but signioficant sources that connect Ethiopia and Rastafari. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 20:30, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Among Rastafarian adherents there's perhaps a close connection, just as Hebrew Israelites feel a spiritual connection with Israel. However, on the ground in Ethiopia proper, Rastafarianism barely has a presence [2]: "Selassie, a devout Ethiopian Orthodox Christian, rejected the notion that he had divine powers[...] Selassie was alternately bemused and perplexed by the Rastafarians, and by the adoration he encountered whenever he traveled outside his country[...] But he also firmly rejected their theology, and Rastafarianism never took root in Ethiopia." Given this, a note in the body mentioning that Rastafarians regard Ethiopia as their spiritual homeland wouldn't seem out of place; however, placing it in the lede would be undue. Middayexpress (talk) 20:46, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I dont disagree that Rastas from outside Ethiopia are rare in Ethiopia and perhaps it has not spread there as much as in other parts of Africa though even so its a minority religion everywhere in Africa where it is found. Having said that google books are NOT a reliable source for anything on wikipedia. I dont though agree with your comments re Selassie and Rastafari at all, they sound like they have come form an anti rasta Christian website, of which there are a number. He firmly rejected disturbing their faith but there is no evidence whatsoever that he rejected their theology. I would have thought a mention of Rastafari and the movements connection to Ethiopia would be entirely right, posibly in connectionw ith Bob Marley. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 20:57, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

The material above isn't from anti-Rastafarian websites (which by the way I agree aren't reliable sources). That said, this page is under WP:Countries, which has specific guidelines as to what is appropriate on country wikipages. For the lede, it indicates that the name of the country, location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like should be noted, as well as "a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for" i.e. its main attributes. That's why whether or not Rastafarians have a significant presence in Ethiopia matters. According to the Pew Research Center, which documents the percentages of the major and minor religions in all countries, Rastafarianism is neither a major nor a minor religion in Ethiopia [3]. WP:Countries also indicates that only a country's "major religions" should be noted. Despite this, an exception could perhaps be made. It could be noted in the relevant religion area that although Rastafarian adherents do not have a significant presence in Ethiopia, they nonetheless regard the nation as their spiritual homeland. Middayexpress (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It also matters how the world sees Ethiopia. May not be for the opening but its a significant enough fact about Ethiopia that Rastas for instance use the Ethiopian flag and see it as a homeland (spiritual? not exclusively). How the world sees Ethiopia is also important, not merely how it percieves itself, and rasta should not be mentioned because its a rleigion practiced in Ethiopia but because itis soemthing well knownm int he world connected to Ethiopia so a rasta presence in the country is NOT required to include something about them. And Selassie's views on Rastafari are not appropriate in this article. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:42, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Please have a look at WP:Countries for the appropriate national criteria; it is strictly centered on the actual country. I realize that Rastafarians feel a tie with Ethiopia. The fact remains, though, that they aren't literally Ethiopian expatriates; Ethiopia is not where their ancestors emigrated from to the New World. The Rastafarian situation thus parallels that of the Hebrew Israelites in Israel, who both spiritually and literally regard Israel as their homeland, and consequently cherish the Israeli flag of David. The difference is that Hebrew Israelites do have a minor presence today in Israel. At any rate, if I understand you correctly, you appear to be suggesting that we should indicate that Ethiopia is the spiritual homeland of Rastafarianism, with no attribution that this is what Rastafarians specifically believe. If so, this cannot be done since that would be asserting a personal belief of Rastafarian adherents as a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice. Middayexpress (talk) 22:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It is not that rastas feel a tie to Ethiopia, it is that they are perceived to do so by reliable sources. That link is to a wikiproject not a guideline and I cant see where it says what you are saying, can you give me a quote to search on the page? I think we should attribute what the sources say, and it is a belief, yes, rather than them say being ex-pats, so we wouldnt include Bob marley on a list of famous Ethiopians and I havent said we shouldnt say it is their belief, you misunderstood me there, though not sure why. As a side issue I suggest we dont use the word Rastafarianism in the article. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:21, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's a Wikiproject, and as it indicates, it helps develop and works toward standardizing the formats of sets and types of country-related pages. The relevant clauses therein are already noted above, though there are others. That said, Rastafarians do apparently feel a homeland tie to Ethiopia since they believe that Zion (their suggested birthplace of all humankind) is in Ethiopia, advocate "repatriation" to Ethiopia, and regard Haile Selassie as God incarnate. This perhaps could be briefly noted in the appropriate religion area. I'm not sure what you mean by not using the word "Rastafarianism". Are you suggesting that we don't refer to the faith itself? Or do you mean that "Rastafari" is preferable over "Rastafarianism"? I understand that some adherents prefer the former term. If "Rastafarianism" is perceived as pejorative, unrepresentative or otherwise inappropriate by many of the faith's practitioners, it indeed should be avoided per wp:label in favor of "Rastafari" or another acceptable alternative. Middayexpress (talk) 15:04, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Struck sockpuppet comments

See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Til Eulenspiegel. Dougweller (talk) 13:49, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Global Fire Power

Global Fire Power is the original ranker and its system is global; hence, its tradename. It has Ethiopia at 40th in the world, not 1st in Sub-Saharan Africa [4]. The latter is from the Nazret blog, which is merely relaying Global Fire Power's ranking, albeit with its own angle. Given the foregoing, I've linked directly to Global Fire Power's actual 40th worldwide ranking. Middayexpress (talk) 17:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

first hijra in Islamic history

This could use some explanation or sourcing. The first Hijra in Islamic history was from Mecca to Medina. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 04:34, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

I believe what was meant is the First Hijirah, in capital letters. Middayexpress (talk) 17:52, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Population Estimation

How can an estimate of Millions be accurate to a single digit? That number should be rounded sensibly. Stefanhanoi (talk) 09:48, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, it should've read 88 million. Middayexpress (talk) 21:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Question

This article:

"The new Provisional Military Administrative Council established a one-party communist state which was called People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia in March 1975."

But go to People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia:

"The People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia (PDRE) was the official name of Ethiopia from 1987 to 1991…"

--YeOldeGentleman (talk) 23:43, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposition of subsection on landgrabbing in Ethiopia (new)

Hello,

I suggest a subsection on landgrabbing for the section on the economy. Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 17:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Human Rights Notable enough to be in Lead of Ethiopia and as Separate Section

If the human rights situation in Eritrea is notable enough for consideration in the Lead of the Eritrea section, then the Human Rights Situation in Ethiopia should have its own section as well as mention in the Lead in the Ethiopia article:

This and following content is extremely notable and should have good representation in the lead. GregKaye 05:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, this seems entirely appropriate. Cpsoper (talk) 23:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

This from the Talk on Eritrea Article. --Puhleec (talk) 22:24, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

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About the ethiopian orthodox tewhado church

The church was referred as a monophysite and that is completely false. The church itself claims it is miaphysite and believes in the united nature -[divine and human united] of Jesus Christ. Even its name explains that. Tewhado means united when translated to english- which describes unity of divine and human nature. So i hope it gets corrected. date jan 9/2016...i am waiting

Please Update the numbers

Most of the economy and demography related numbers are unbelievably 4 (FOUR) YEARS OLD. Please update it. Ethiopia has shown so much change in those four years in every aspect. So please update your info as you have the duty to spread true,updated and unbiased information.

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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Ethiopia. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:

• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.csa.gov.et/index.php?option=com_rubberdoc&view=doc&id=264&format=raw&Itemid=521
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://gargaaraoromopc.org/OPC_Program.aspx
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=87&art_id=qw1145360700509B231

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Ethiopia Flag should show All Flags of Ethiopia not only current flag

If this Ethiopia wiki article is about Ethiopia from Past to Present, then referring to Ethiopia as "Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia" which is based on the current Ethnic federalist regime (since 1993). The Flags of Ethiopia under the Haile Selassie, Menelik II, Atsi Yohannis, etc (Solomonic Dynasty) should also be shown as those were for over a thousand year. Also, the reign of the communist Derg regime , the Flag was just the colors (no symbol in the middle). The current flag of "Ethiopia" is the Flag of the EPRDF/TPLF ethnic federalist regime. This article is not showing a Balanced Neutral view of Ethiopia via it's flag. Otakrem (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

There is really no bias here. In the infobox we show the flag used by the United Nations member currently recognized by the other United Nations members. If you click on the article for the flag of Ethiopia, you will see there all the historical flags of the past. This is exactly the same as we do for every other country. 71.246.156.3 (talk) 21:52, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

This flag is Pro-EPRDF/TPLF. The UN is not the final Arbiter of the Existence of Countries. Obviously Palestine(UNbacked) doesn't Exist but Israel(USbacked) does. So you are saying that if the Nazi Swastika Flag was Germany's flag of today, that you would show that Flag to represent Germany all through Germany's history (majority of it Non-Nazi)? Otakrem (talk) 23:26, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

The UN may not be the final arbiter of the existence of countries, but there is at present no other arbiter in existence that we go by here. 71.246.156.3 (talk) 01:00, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Ethiopia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130603122801/http://www.startribune.com/world/15860017.html to http://www.startribune.com/world/15860017.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120521002539/http://www.globalmarch.org/resourcecentre/world/ethiopia.pdf to http://www.globalmarch.org/resourcecentre/world/ethiopia.pdf
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110205045029/http://www.africanculturalcenter.org:80/3_0wildlife.html to http://www.africanculturalcenter.org/3_0wildlife.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140627000000/http://www.iucnredlist.org to http://www.iucnredlist.org
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ethiopianreporter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7303
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.time.com/time/europe/timetrails/selassie/hs260809.html

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Name Section

I want to make a minor change in this section by replacing the phrase "Abyssinia, derived from Habesh, an early Arabic form of the Ethiopian Semitic name "Ḥabaśāt" (unvocalized "ḤBŚT")" (before I made the edit by 24 September this phrase has been tagged with "citation needed") to "Abyssinia, derived from Al-Habasha which Arabs used it as a translation for the Greek word Aethiopia." based on the following citations:

Abyssinia derived from arabic word Al-Habesha

1) "ETHIOPIA (etheo'peu) or, as it is often unofficially called, Abyssinia (derived from Arabic El Habesha)" [5]

2) "Abyssinia (the European term for the ancient Arabic term al-Habasha)" [6]

Al Habasha used by Arabs to refer people south of Egypt as a translation for the Greek word 'Aethiopia'

1) "The original use of the Greek designation `Ethiopia' was either as a general designation for the black peoples south of the Egyptian border (as the Arabs later used `al -Habasha' or its plural `Ahabish' for groups like the Zanj, Beja, and Nubians as well as the Abyssinians or more specifically as a reference to the kingdom of Kush or Kasu, with its capital at Meroë on the Sudanese Nile. But after the eclipse of this state, the kings of both Aksum and Nubia used the name `Ethiopia' to refer to their own countries and peoples" [7]

2) "‘Habasha’ and it’s variants have been used to name various geographical pockets that are located in the vast territory extending from the southern Arabian peninsula to the southern tip of the African continent and the groups of people inhabiting these areas" [8]

The meaning of the Greek word 'Aethiopia' or 'Aithiopis' which are known in English as 'Ethiopian'

1) "The Greeks added their word opsis, in the sense of “face” or “countenance,” to their word aithein, “to burn,” to form the name of the Africans they called Aithiopis, or the “burned-face” ones – a name preserved in modern English as Ethiopian." [9]. For more see the article for Aethiopia

Before I make this change I want to get comments — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 13:21, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, as explained, that last bit on Habasha stretching all the way to the southern tip of Africa is false and irrelevant here anyway. As to the actual Aethiopia etymology, Aethiopia was originally the toponym for Nubia, not the modern Ethiopia nation-state (which did not exist in antiquity). The appellation was only later adopted by the Aksumites when they conquered Nubia. An etymology that does not explain this ancient conquest and appropriation is misleading, so the following works better:

The Greek name Αἰθιοπία (from Αἰθίοψ, Aithiops, 'an Ethiopian') is a compound word, derived from the two Greek words, from [Template:M used with invalid code 'grc'. See documentation.]αἴθω + [Template:M used with invalid code 'grc'. See documentation.]ὤψ (aitho "I burn" + ops "face"). The historian Herodotus used the appellation to denote the parts of Africa below the Sahara that were then known within the Ecumene (inhabitable world).

In Greco-Roman epigraphs, Aethiopia was a specific toponym for ancient Nubia. At least as early as c. 850, the name Aethiopia also occurs in many translations of the Old Testament in allusion to the latter territory. The ancient Hebrew texts identify Nubia instead as Kush. However, in the New Testament, the Greek term Aithiops does occur, referring to a servant of Candace or Kandake, possibly an inhabitant of Meroë in Nubia.

Following the Hellenic and Biblical traditions, the Monumentum Adulitanum, a third century inscription belonging to the Aksumite Empire, indicates that Aksum's then ruler governed an area which was flanked to the west by the territory of Ethiopia and Sasu. The Aksumite King Ezana would eventually conquer Nubia the following century, and the Aksumites thereafter appropriated the designation "Ethiopians" for their own kingdom. In the Ge'ez version of the Ezana inscription, Aἰθιόπoι is equated with the unvocalized Ḥbštm and Ḥbśt (Ḥabashat), and denotes for the first time the highland inhabitants of Aksum. This new demonym would subsequently be rendered as ’ḥbs (’Aḥbāsh) in Sabaic and as Ḥabasha in Arabic.

In the 15th-century Ge'ez Book of Aksum, the name is ascribed to a legendary individual called Ityopp'is. He was an extra-Biblical son of Cush, son of Ham, said to have founded the city of Axum.

In English, and generally outside of Ethiopia, the country was once historically known as Abyssinia. This toponym was derived from the Latinized form of the ancient Habash.

That is how and when the Aksumites actually came to adopt the toponym Aethiopia for their ancient kingdom. Soupforone (talk) 16:56, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Files

EthiopianHabesha, please stop with the file jamming. It is contorting the layout per MOS:IMAGES. You appended those superflous files in February without discussion much less consensus, and in the process you also removed and replaced a few too (such as the Aussa Sultanate flag). It's therefore disingenuous to now claim that the jammed files were somehow the original files, when they in fact weren't. Anyway, no hard feelings, but please heretofore adhere to the standard discussion and consensus process as per policy. Soupforone (talk) 16:03, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Soupforone, Actually, why I am reverting your edit has got to do with how you make edits i.e. deleting several images & phrases and moving paragraphs up & down in one edit and in your edit summary saying you just did sorting while your edit is not just simply sorting but a major change in the article. My opinion is if you think this kind of editing is appropriate for whatever justification then we we will request administrators or other editors intervention and they will solve the issue. I will revert to last edit made by the administrator Materialscientist on 19th October and I will also explain the issue in the users talkpage. Soupforone, please make 1 edit for deleting images, 1 edit for deleting paragraphs and 1 edit for moving paragraphs/phrases up & down while providing reasons for each. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 13:40, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

And I didnot delete Aussa flag, please check the edit history. Make your edits transparent and for what ever reasons you may have as to why you need to roll to an edit made 8 months ago we may ask other editors opinion (rfc, 3rd opinion, dispute resolution or administrators opinion). — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 14:43, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Comment:I assume that "jammed files" just means "too many files crowded together, which translates into a poorly formatted, clustered, over-busy crowd of images". If that's the case, then I agree, there are rather too many images for comfortable reading of text. On the other hand, the formatting could be adjusted appropriately; as a gallery, for example.

There's nothing wrong with bold editing, whether in addition or removal of material; but it's certainly better to provide a straightforward, self-explanatory edit summary for every particular change. If an edit can't be adequately explained or justified in the edit summary box, I suggest that such an edit merits additional explanation on the talk-page, whatever its nature. I also strongly suggest you guys try to reach a compromise here, as an RfC is unlikely to be accepted unless you've exhausted talk-page procedures. Haploidavey (talk) 15:00, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, and agreed. Soupforone (talk) 15:07, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, actually, I simply rolled the files only, no text (though the consensus policy applies to text as well). And specifically because they contorted/jammed the layout contra the manual of style and were undiscussed to begin with. Anyway, please note that per WP:BURDEN, "the burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material". The onus here would therefore be on you, not me. I rolled to the original files prior to your undiscussed file changes from a few months ago. I did this because the file jamming was contorting the layout, and also because you erroneously claimed that you were rolling to the original files, when in fact you had apparently changed the original files without discussion to begin with. This is not to finger-point, just an observation. Why, for example, append an 1840 geopolitical map of Africa (which was mislabeled 1884) in the Menelik area, when there was already an 1891 map of Ethiopia specifically alongside another file on the king [10]? This is what I mean by superfluous. These and the other file changes needed justification in the first place. Anyway, discussion and agreement is necessary per WP:BRD. Soupforone (talk) 15:07, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Soupforone, you claimed I deleted Aussa flag and Addis Ababa stadium, could you show me the diffs supporting this claim of yours because I didnot remove those images. As said you didnot specify to which specific date you have reverted the whole article (which you claim is original edit). You have made several unexplained changes in various sections and for all your changes in several sections it's not fair to give reason in your edit summary saying file jamming (because 4 images in one section). — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 15:12, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, my apologies. Other than the geopolitical map from 1840, it was apparently the user Henocksey who made the major, undiscussed file changes and in April rather than in February [11]. This is the user whose edits on the political riots you reverted the other day [12]. Since the file changes were undiscussed and contorted the layout, I simply rolled to the original files, as you did with the political stuff. Soupforone (talk) 15:24, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Haploidavey, the edit is made on various sections and it would have been better if one edit per section besides the reason given is vague. In the edit summary 'rolled back to original file' and 'file jamming' are stated and I am not sure either the editor just reverted to past edit while not making any changes or user made changes on the most recent edit. I think it is better if it is rolled back to 19th October edit and then user makes 1 edit per section or may be list down the the changes and the reasons here in talk page. As for file jamming it is better we discuss here on which images we should keep and which one we should delete and if we don't have consensus on this matter then we may ask other editors opinion. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 15:44, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Obviously, the rolling was in various areas because the initial, undiscussed file jamming from April (not October) was in various areas. Likewise, the rolling of the political text was for the same reason limited to the political area. It's also quite easy to see from the actual dif that indeed only the original files were rolled to [13]. Anyway, the WP:BURDEN is on the user to justify each of his initial changes and obtain consensus for them. For one thing, the Homo sapiens idaltu skull would probably work better in the prehistory area, as it is normal-sized and the hominid species is actually linked to there. Soupforone (talk) 16:24, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Visual overcrowding is always a risk when adding images to the inevitably shortish, summary sections of text employed in such general articles. Tastes vary, I guess. So do expectations, and I'm accustomed to dealing out huge chunks of text, with very few supporting illustrations, or (sadly) none. That said, the prehistory section needs something; the Lucy (Australopithecus) illustration has little immediate impact - perhaps a scholarly reconstruction is available, somewhere. Anyway, I'll keep an eye on this talk-page, in the hope of a speedy consensus. Haploidavey (talk) 16:48, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The Homo sapiens idaltu skull could probably work [14]. It's pretty small, so the size would be ideal. Soupforone (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

I could live with that - as long as it's dealt with in the text (being lazy, I've not checked), which it is, of course, ahem. And of course, size matters. Imo, images should be of sufficient size and clarity to remain readable without resort to magnification. I don't know if that's policy or not, but its also pertinent to the number of images per section. Better two decent sized images than three that must be made unreadably small. Haploidavey (talk) 17:11, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. Soupforone (talk) 17:17, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Omission?

The article's missing any historical information between the late Axumite Empire (ending? or at its peak? around the late 4th century or so) and the Zagwe dynasty (beginning in the early 12th century). That seems an implausibly long time for nothing in particular to be going on; but according to the article on the Aksumite Empire, very little is known of its long, slow fading out. So that probably needs clarification here. Haploidavey (talk) 19:12, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

As the Aksumite kingdom gradually declined, one of the earliest local Muslim kingdoms, the Makhzumi sultanate, was established. Its ruling dynasty was deposed in the late 13th century around the time the Zagwe dynasty ended. Soupforone (talk) 02:49, 29 October 2016 (UTC)