Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 September 24

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September 24

Two-day-old cooked Chinese food: safe to eat?

Okay, long story short, I had swine flu last week and I'm extremely behind now, but have to pull an all-nighter for a couple of tests tomorrow. I'm going to have a can of NOS (not all at once, but 260 mg of caffeine over a period of three or four hours), but I'm guessing it's better having eaten food. I'm not going to drink it until around 1 AM or so, but I had dinner at 5:30; I have some leftover Chinese food from Monday that has not been refrigerated, and other than that no food. Safe to eat, or...? · AndonicO ^Engage. 01:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Man, just throw it out and go get a cheeseburger. You don't have time to worry about this! And if you can't tell if it is spoilt or not, we surely can't. Instead of procrastinating, just go grab something quick at the closest place that sells food that would still be open, then hurry on back. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:41, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

All kinds of bacteria could be living in that stuff - and even if you cook it and kill off the actual germs, their toxins would still be there. It's just not worth the risk. Shuttlebug (talk) 02:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I bet if you called the place you got it from and asked them they would say definitely not! It's probably only a small chance you'll get sick, but there's also a small chance you'll get really really sick. Vespine (talk) 05:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

females on banknotes

the US. has only males on banknotes. How many other countries are like this, having no females at all? Most countries have at least some. I noticed on my last trip in Australia every single note had a female. Are there other countries like this too?

[[:Image:10royals.jpg|thumb|James Cook on proposed Australian 10 Royal note (never issued)]]

Well, at the very least that's not true due to this image. I have no information, but it depends on how each nation decides who appears on their currency. In the US, they are all Presidents or people who deserved the position more than others, and as such there are no men. There have been two US coins featuring women, namely Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 03:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Various U.S. coins, such as the Dime (United States coin), used to feature "Lady Liberty", but those images were eventually replaced by Presidents and such. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

(EC)The situation in the U.S. is largely due to the the attitude towards banknote design in general; unlike many countries which do more frequent redesigns of their banknotes, and change portraits on a regular basis, the U.S. has had the same set of portraits on its bills since at least 1928, probably earlier (see Federal Reserve Note). Indeed, from 1928-1996, the notes were virtually unchanged for almost 70 years, except for very minor changes. Since 1996, all bills larger than the $1.00 have gone through two additional designs, the "large portrait" version from 1996-2003 and the "multicolored" design which has been in place since 2003. Still, in all that time, every denomination has had an invarient subject for its portrait. The same "dead president" has appeared on the same bills for at least 80 years at this point. Large-sized note indicated that the 1914/1918 series was similar to the current distribution, with the $5, $50 and $100 having the same portraits as today. The $1.00 bill has undergone no major changes at all, at least on the obverse, and looks pretty much identical to what it did in 1928, when it was a "Silver Certificate". --Jayron32 04:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how much the situation in Australia and England is due to the fact that England has had some powerful and respected Queens as Monarchs. By default it means a women's face on every coin in Australia, it seems plausible this has at least had some effect towards acecptnace of other women's faces on the notes also. Vespine (talk) 05:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There was also a degree of cynicism in putting women on the dollar coins, since the typical American does not use dollar coins at all and typically gets rid of them (i.e. spends them) as quickly as possible if getting any in change. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

For money without women, I'd look at countries where women have relatively low status and that are currently ruled by a male monarch or dictator. The Saudi Arabian riyal article says their king is on all their denominations of paper money. --Anonymous, 04:40 UTC, September 24, 2009.

Fascinating reading. If it only it weren't a redlink. Maybe he meant Saudi Arabian royal family →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

No, I meant Saudi Arabian riyal; I just didn't notice the article was called something else. Thanks to Sluzzelin for supplying the redirect. --Anonymous, 09:08 UTC (copyedited later), September 24, 2009.

In the UK it is a legal requirement that the Queen's head appear on banknotes. Presume that Australia as part of the Commonwealth follows the same path.Froggie34 (talk) 07:33, 24 September 2009 (UTC)DT

My understanding is that in Australia, the lowest denomination Australian bank note always has the Queen on it, but the others do not. I don't know if it is a "legal requirement" or just a convention, and I can't find anything to cite as a reference, so I could be wrong. "Lowest" used to be one dollar, but is now five dollars. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The pre-1966 £sd notes had the Queen on the 1 pound note but Matthew Flinders on the 10 shilling note, so the "lowest note for the monarch" rule has been around only since 1966. -- JackofOz (talk) 13:03, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

When a monarch dies, do the old notes stay in circulation, gradually replaced by the image of the new monarch? Or do they try to replace them as soon as possible? →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Certainly old coins stay in circulation; there were still plenty of George V and VI coins in circulation when the UK and Australia decimalised, and even coins with Victoria on were not unheard of. I imagine a similar policy would exist with banknotes, although paper notes only last a couple of years anyway. FiggyBee (talk) 15:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The current England & Wales £5 bank note shows Elizabeth Fry. The £10 notes in circulation 1975-94 showed Florence Nightingale. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

All of this pales next to France's old 100 Franc bill, which featured a rendition of the topless lady, Liberty Leading the People. Maybe the U.K. should spice up their currency by featuring Page 3 Girls. And with modern engraving techniques, they could be rendered in three dimensions. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:13, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Danish banknotes had females on 3 out 5 (admittedly one had both a male and a female on it, so it was an equal score), (Johanne Luise Heiberg, Anna Ancher and Karen Blixen). But now Denmark is in the process of getting some new banknotes with no persons on them at all, only bridges. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:21, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

That image above is of a proposed note for a proposed currency that never saw the light of day. The Australian Royal was the name favoured in the early 1960s by the then Prime Minister, Sir Robert Menzies, an über-arch-royalist; it was roundly pooh-poohed and was shelved in favour of the more acceptable, if more pedestrian and unimaginative, Australian Dollar. I've changed the caption so as not to mislead our readers. If we discount the Queen, on the original 1966 series of Australian decimal currency banknotes there were 6 men and no women at all. The $5 note was issued in 1967, and it had Caroline Chisholm on one side and Joseph Banks on the other; the score was then 7:1. They later issued two more notes that had 2 men each; the score was then 11:1. The current series, released between 1993 and 1995, has a man and a woman on every note apart from the one the Queen is on (her note has a design of the Parliament House on the reverse), and if we add the Queen back in, there are in fact 6 women and only 5 men. How times have changed. -- JackofOz (talk) 10:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Of the five current regularly Banknotes of the New Zealand dollar, two have females albeit one is QEII i.e. the current monarch. All 5 do have watermarks of QEII as well. All the Coins of the New Zealand dollar also have QEII. All banknotes and coins only have portraits on one side. Nil Einne (talk) 10:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

All of the banknotes of the Malaysian ringgit past and present feature the first Yang di-Pertuan Agong Tuanku Abdul Rahman. Featuring the current Agong is problematic as it changes every 5 years. None of them, except for the very latest which features the first Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman Putra Al-Haj albeit not as a potrait have/had other people on them. The coins don't and haven't ever had any potraits or people Nil Einne (talk) 10:44, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The Japanese Yen has only ever had males on it and the Euro banknotes have neither men or women. Nanonic (talk) 10:39, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, according to the article, the 2000 Yen note (which admittedly sees even less circulation than the US dollar coin) has a portrait of Murasaki Shikibu. FiggyBee (talk)

In Canada the Queen is only on the $20 bill (although she used to be on the $2 bill as well). However, the current $50 bill also has The Famous Five. Otherwise all the portraits are (male) prime ministers (no Kim Campbell!). Adam Bishop (talk) 12:56, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Banknotes of the pound sterling show the United Kingdom isn't exactly pushing back the boundaries of representation. Only Florence Nightingale and Elizabeth Fry since the introduction of "famous Britons" in the 1970s. With the £20 and £50 redesigns featuring men, the race for a woman to replace Charles Darwin or Elizabeth Fry (or both!) is on.... 80.193.130.5 (talk) 13:01, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Can't wait for the arguments once Margaret Thatcher passes on.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Arguments about what? The order in which British citizens will have to line up in order to dance on her grave? SteveBaker (talk) 18:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There have been females on the obverse side of US coins, most recently Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 15:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

...always on those popular $1 coins then? SteveBaker (talk) 18:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The unpopularity of dollar coins is a recent phenomenon. The gold and silver dollar coins (generally featuring Lady Liberty) certainly circulated widely. --Carnildo (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Folding-money is much more convenient. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes - but a US $1 bill costs 12 cents to make and only lasts 2 years. A $1 coin could easily last 50 years and costs 40 cents to make. Coins are therefore something like 10 times cheaper than notes - and they are much less economical to forgers. As inflation gradually decreases the value of $1, it makes sense to switch to a coin. People argued the convenience point in the UK when the 10 shilling note, then the pound note were turned into coins. Now we have two pound coins - and I don't think many people would go back to the grubby banknotes. An alternative would be to switch to plastic banknotes - some of the countries that tried that have had success - others have had disasters. SteveBaker (talk) 03:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The only reason I can think of that coins might be less convenient than notes is that the people you deal with aren't used to them. Even the Canadians can figure out the C$1 "loonies" (loon on one side, some sort of waterfowl on the other) and C$2 pieces. The US has lots of virtually unused small currency: the $1 coin is found only in Post Offices, the $0.50 coin only in Vegas, and the $2 note noplace. People have even had interesting adventures trying to pass a Jefferson. PhGustaf (talk) 04:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"Even the Canadians", heh. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

People don't like having to carry more coins than necessary, because they are heavy. It's been said that a lot of men in Europe carry "purses", due to the weight of the dollar coins that the government has imposed on them. American men don't like to carry purses for some reason. Also, people are much wealthier than they were in the 1910s when a large, heavy silver dollar was something you likely would not have had all that many of in your pocket. Of course, men wore suspenders a lot more in those days - maybe because their pants pockets were their "purses". →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

It was more likely that because the buying power of $1 in the early 1900s would be closer to $10-$20 today, one would not have needed to generally carry around more then a couple of dollars in coins to have a reasonable amount of purchasing power for day to day activities. $20-30 worth of purchasing power in today's coins would be quite annoying. Googlemeister (talk) 16:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I learn from clicking on the link that fob pockets were designed to carry a pocket watch, but surely they've always been used for coins too. I've seen countless old movies where some avuncular type produces coins from his fob pocket and hands them to a child. These days they're in the trousers. Was that the case in the good old days, or were they only in waistcoats? -- JackofOz (talk) 19:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Ooo. I'll take any chance to pipe up with my opinion that any unit of currency that can't by me a Coca-Cola belongs in my pocket with my jingling money, not in my wallet with my folding money.

It's time to retire the dollar bill in favor of the coin. I don't want it associating with the REAL money in my wallet any more.

(While we're at it, lets eliminate the penny and the nickle as well, that'll lighten our pockets a bit at no real expense to us.) APL (talk) 18:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

arm socks

Could you tell me if these things have a specific name. I've always just called them "arm socks" but I'd like to know what their real name is, if they have one. Many thanks!

Arm warmer.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:01, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

For complete warmth I need 5 of them and the 5th has to be elastic.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The latter item is in fact marketed, and is called (on the packaging) a willy warmer, but surprisingly we don't yet have an article on this clothing accessory (and no, I'm not about to write one). 87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Sensory illusion

We have articles on optical illusion, auditory illusion, vestibular illusion, even touch illusion and thermosensory illusion. Does anyone know good examples for illusions of taste or smell? (I mean reproducible illusions, not hallucinations). Thanks! ---Sluzzelin talk 10:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Given that taste and smell are not so cleanly defined in the physical world, I doubt it. What would constitute such an illusion?--Leon (talk) 10:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The acetone in nail varnish makes it smell like pear drops. Someone[1] says their urine smells the same.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:21, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

(reply to Star trooper): Simply put: The reproducible sensation of tasting or smelling something that isn't there. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Orange juice tastes really different before and after using toothpaste - does that count? SteveBaker (talk) 12:50, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's the obvious connection between expectations and taste/smell. If you think that each of the different colors of Fruit Loops are really different flavors, one can easily perceive them as such. Close your eyes and pick randomly, and you find they're all a similarly indistinct "fruit" flavor. Your eyes and associations are what make the red ones cherry, the yellow ones lemon, etc. There are lots of other examples, popular amongst elementary science fairs. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

It's always struck me as odd that shampoos and soaps have quite different smells to their taste, considering how close smell and taste are. You can get peach flavour shampoo which smells lovely but I can assure you it doesn't taste too good.Popcorn II (talk) 15:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

In order for something to have a smell, it needs to give off airborne particles that can reach your nose. The chemicals that contribute the strong bitter taste of soap are water-soluable solids, so they can contact your tongue, but not your nose. --Carnildo (talk) 23:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

My guess would be that if you took away the perfumes, you could, in fact, smell the soap's natural smell to some extent. Which is presumably part of the reason they add those perfumes, to overwhelm that natural smell. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:32, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, it is very easy to fool a human sense of taste, but I do not think it is customary to call that an "illusion". For example, Saccharin and Cyclamate (artificial sweeteners) or Lead(II) acetate (a poison) taste sweet even though they have little or no nutritional value and are not related to sugars chemically. Some fruits (e.g. "miracle berry") alter the sense of taste profoundly, producing an illusion of sweetness in foodstuffs not normally perceived as sweet. Salt enhances the flavor of food even if that flavor is not perceived as "salty"; and so on. --Dr Dima (talk) 18:01, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - Monosodium Glutamate is an obvious example. It makes everything taste...more...more of whatever it tastes of already. SteveBaker (talk) 18:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Cranberries in cranberry sauce taste like cherries when eaten with vanilla ice cream. With the nostrils pinched shut, an onion tastes about the same as an apple or a potato. Similarly, various flavor jellybeans can't be distinguished without the sense of smell.If one is habituated to his own body odor or flatulence, he can't smell it. PTC is a chemical which tastes bitter to some, and is tasteless to others, depending on their genetics. Edison (talk) 21:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The Bitter End (short story) —Tamfang (talk) 00:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Brain tumours and the like can sometimes cause the sufferer to perceive smells that have no external source. One famous example of this is George Gershwin, who complained of smelling burning rubber on and off for three years, before he was diagnosed with a tumour, and died on the operating table. See also Phantosmia and Parosmia. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Steel axle

My carburetter has a cast aluminium housing in which turns a steel axle. The diagram shows the metals a = aluminium, s = steel. My problem is that the axle surface has rusted so that it can no longer turn in the housing. I have tried prolonged soaking with WD40 (a penetrating oil in spraycan) without success. I don't mind damaging the axle because that can be remade but the housing is valuable. It is a Weber 40IDF twin-choke carburetter. Have you ideas for getting the axle out ?

 aaaaa     aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa     aaaaaa
 aa     -      aaa   aaa     -      aa
 aa   -- --    aaa   aaa   -- --    aa
 aa  -     -   aaa   aaa  -     -   aa
:aa -       -  aaa   aaa -       -  aa:
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
:aa -       -  aaa   aaa -       -  aa:
 aa  -     -   aaa   aaa  -     -   aa
 aa   -- --    aaa   aaa   -- --    aa
 aa     -      aaa   aaa     -      aa
 aa            aaa   aaa            aa

Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

WD40 is only the measure of FIRST resort. Now, you need to go to your local car parts store and find the serious stuff. The best stuff usually come in cans with extremely poor standards of graphic design. If you can find one covered in writing in three different fonts and four colors - with lots of exclamation marks (it should have the word "MIRACLE!!!" somewhere in the name) - then that's the stuff you need! But seriously - there are much better penetrating agents out there than WD40. However, that may only be enough to get it to rotate...if the diameter of the steel shaft has been increased by the corrosion then penetrating oil isn't going to help - it doesn't get rid of the rust. Drilling it out is a possibility - but it's going to be tough because one slip off of the hard steel onto the soft aluminium is going to wreck the housing. Using force is similarly not recommended - those aluminium carb housings crack quite easily. If I were restoring this - I think I'd try to get the shaft to rotate using penetrating oils and other mystery unguents (sorry "MIRACLE!!! MYSTERY!!! Unguent!!!!") - then clean up the visible rust using a dremel tool with the wire-brush attachment. SteveBaker (talk) 12:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I would take it to a machine shop. I wouldn't like to guess what they would do but maybe with a very accurate rig or lathe they could drill out even a hard metal from a soft one, then fabricate an oversised axle. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I want to agree with a mechanic what he may try in advance because the job will certainly be at my own risk. My non-progress so far has been to drill little holes through the housing towards the axle and attempt to squirt WD40 into the bearing. Using force to turn the axle has only caused it to twist. The outer bearings are ball races (which I added to the artwork) and seem ok. It is the inner steel-in-aluminium bearings that are seized. Reboring for an oversize axle is a good suggestion for after the rusty axle is out. I think the new axle should be stainless steel and that SteveBaker is promoting snake oil. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:54, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried hitting it - ie impact wrench - rust sticks - but isn't very strong. You can also soak in petrol or diesel (don't use lube oil) - they're pretty much the same as WD40 in effect.And whatever S.baker is selling I'm buying83.100.251.196 (talk) 16:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Any excuse for a photo of Toad!

[[:Image:Toad map.jpg|thumb|200px|Toad plans his drive.]]

I restore classic cars as a hobby - I run a mailing list for fellow classic car restorers - I actually know what I'm talking about. WD40 (and stuff like gasoline and diesel) are only the first line of attack. Trust me - there are MUCH better penetrating gunks out there. I've had all manner of stuck bolts and seized bearings the WD40 wouldn't shift - yet other mystery 'stuff' would free up after one night of soaking. I have a collection of four or five of these 'snake oils' - and it's rare indeed that one or other of them doesn't work...they are certainly poorly marketted - and some of the best ones practically say "dubious snake-oil" right there on the can! But they work. I strongly advice against using force...DEFINITELY not an impact wrench! Thin, 50 year-old (or whatever) aluminium castings are very easy to crack - and insanely difficult to repair because aluminium is hard to weld. If this part is "valuable" (as our OP says) - then some patience and some better penetrating stuff is worth trying. Try (for example) "Marvel Mystery Oil" (Look! It says "Marvel" and "Mystery" right there on the bottle - it's even written in a horrible font - so it must be good stuff!) Trust me - I'm honestly not kidding. I've been there - dozens of times! SteveBaker (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

You could try encouraging more rust so that the steel will completely rust and can be removed by force. Saltwater would probably work, or you might be able to set it up so the steel acts as a sacrificial anode. anonymous6494 19:38, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - I think the guy who sold me my last Mini used that restoration technique - he was evidently taking that approach over almost the entire car! SteveBaker (talk) 03:29, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I shall consider heating the object. Axle diameter is 8mm. Estimated difference in expansion coefficients of aluminium and steel is (23 - 12) = 12 µm m^-1K^-1. So every 100 deg C rise will expand the gap between the metals by .05mm. Aluminium melts at 660 deg C. My known unknowns are what the rust layer will do when heated and whether the cast aluminium alloy housing behaves significantly differently to pure aluminium. How am I doing so far? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Probably ok - but I think the rust maybe acting as 'glue' rather than jamming (it can be 'sticky' stuff) - I was thinking about something to dissolve the rust - eg like kettle descaler etc (specifically the non-acidic EDTA type)- maybe that is an ingredient in some of the MAGIC WONDER SPRAYS steve baker recommended - there is plenty of stuff that will dissolve rust but not attack steel. However Al is a different thing - before trying anything 'wet' or 'chemical' I'd try it on some Al foil first - see if it does anything..83.100.251.196 (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Just realised there's an issue with this - the Al might reduce the rust and be corroded itself.83.100.251.196 (talk) 23:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Your unknown unknowns include the alloy in use (pure aluminum melts at 660C, but nobody uses pure aluminum) and the temper condition (if you heat it too far, you'll convert it from the tempered version to the annealed version, with an enormous loss of strength). --Carnildo (talk) 22:03, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

There's some figues here for generic Al alloys [2] - probably ok for a few minutes at 100C when the lowest annealing temp is ~300C for 2-3hrs.83.100.251.196 (talk) 23:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The thing with aluminium is that while it does corrode easily, for some reason, the initial corrosion seems to rapidly isolate the pure metal from the environment - so you get a thin layer of corrosion - then it stops - and that's that. The characteristic dull grey of aluminium is really the oxide. Shiney aluminium turns dull in just days. These miracle/magic/mystery sprays are intended for automotive use - you don't have to worry about them reacting with aluminium. Using heat certainly might work...I tend to use that with care because once your part has been soaking in WD40 for a day or two, it has a tendancy to burst into flames when exposed to anything really hot. But using a hot air gun should be OK. SteveBaker (talk) 01:27, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

To heat it I would use a temperature controlled oven. The one in my kitchen is calibrated to 300 deg C. That will make the thing too hot to touch. I wonder whether Weber carbs work in Antactica where -89 deg C has been recorded. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:39, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Letter 'e' on shampoo bottle

I've noticed on some fancy shampoos, conditioners, and possibly some other beauty products, there is a lowercase "e" printed on the bottle. It seems to always be next to the bottle's capacity. What does this "e" signify? You can see a picture of it on the bottom of this bottle. Thanks! StephenJennings (talk) 11:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

See Estimated sign. Nanonic (talk) 11:21, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

A-ha, thank you. I don't know how I would have figured that out otherwise StephenJennings (talk) 11:34, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah, interesting. I was pretty sure this was one of those EU standards things, but I always assumed that therefore the E must stand for Europe. Thanks for the explanation! --Anonymous, 19:20 UTC, September 24, 2009.

2nd degree burn marks on legs when will they go?

I was burned with hot oil about 5 months ago on my legs. They healed fine but I am left with brown and red spots from where the oil was. I have used cocoa butter, vitamin E oil, Bio- oil and diaper rash cream. It is barely fading, the doctor I went to didn't have much advice. But I have heard they will fade, how long does it take? Is there hope?

Yes, your best hope is time. Congratulations on having healed already. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the color will fade with time. However, scar tissue (which is usually white), doesn't ever seem to totally go away. There are a number of cosmetics specifically designed to cover up scars, and you might want to look into them, or perhaps use a more general "foundation" type cosmetic. I'm assuming you're female, but if you're a typical male the scars are likely less traumatic than being caught wearing make-up. In that case, just wear long pants until the scars diminish. StuRat (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

It is exactly because we are liable to make unqualified assumptions that we do not offer any medical advice on treatment or prognosis here. The fact that skin cells are continually replaced gives a good expectation, that's all. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

It seems clear to me that the question is asking for a medical prognosis, which we can't give here. If your own doctor can't help you, you could try getting a referral to a dermatologist. On the other hand, the use of makeup does not fall under the category of "medical prognosis", so I'm not going to delete the answers given above. --Anonymous, 19:27 UTC, September 24, 2009.

Minimizing the appearance of a scar falls under cosmetics advice, not medical. That's why the doctor didn't have any advice, it's outside of the medical arena now. StuRat (talk) 12:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

While your advice on how to cover up the scars was fine, as anon mentioned, it sounds to me like the OP was looking for therapeutic/medical cosmetic advice not cosmetics advice. They want a way to treat the scars including making them fade, not simply cover them up. In a number of countries products making such claims are indeed regulated accordingly. [3] [4] (yes outdated but from what I can tell the new law still has the same effect [5]) [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]. There may be ways to get around these regulations (e.g. by making it clear you aren't making a therapeutic or medical claim) and this doesn't apply everywhere but I think as the RD we shouldn't be supporting loopholes some unscrupulous manufacturers use to mislead people into thinking their products are actually effective at treating the appearance of scars. Indeed as the RD, even though this isn't the science RD, we should be be concentrating on the science. And yes, the way to treat the appearance of scars IMHO is clearly medical advice and a doctor of some sort (perhaps a dermatologist or a cosmetic surgeon) would be best suited to provide advice. Which brings me to my main point. The reason the doctor was unable to was likely not so much because it was outside their field of expertise but there is little to recommend. Our article scar doesn't mentions this very well but from what I can tell from e.g. [11] many products which are claimed to be able to treat the the apparance of scars actually have little evidence for their effectiveness and some of them may even make the condition worse. P.S. Notice the article is in "Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology" not Cosmetics or some such? Nil Einne (talk) 17:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Crazy dream about me and the devil

I have had this dream 2 times, Im in what I assume is hell. And I'm floating in this ball of fire, the devil puts this bone mask on my face. Kinda like phantom of the opera style. Which I took as some sort of wedding ceremony. Then I get extremly turned on and we have sex. Afterward I wake up just so freaked out!! Im sweaty and then I cry. I would like this interpreted, does it mean im a bad person or what?

Why do you suppose that your nighttime dream can be interpreted any more than any other idea you have? Because it was non-premeditated and sort of random and arbitrary? If so, why do you suppose a random, arbitrary thought would mean anything? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 12:19, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Carl Jung and others believe that dreams are messages from the subconscious to the unconscious. They are in symbolic form, and only the dreamer really knows what the symbols "mean" when converted into language. There are various books that purport to reveal the meanings of dream symbols; whether they're on the money in any particular case, only the dreamer could verify. But I feel quite safe in assuring you that no dream means you're a "bad person". -- JackofOz (talk) 12:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I find that dreams typically symbolize something going on in real life, or more likely, multiple things going on that kind of get rolled together. Recurring dreams usually reflect an anxiety of some kind. Think about things that have happened to you recently and see whether any of it vaguely connects to the dream in a symbolic way. Otherwise, write it down and maybe you can turn it into a B-movie script someday! →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:59, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK you are not crazy nor bad. A book Interpretation of Dreams by Sigmund Freud may interest you. You can read it online but please be aware that Freud's simplistic interpretations are not the final word. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Just to put it out there, it's not at all clear that interpretation of dreams does anything except act as a post facto way for the dreamer to talk about what's on their mind. Dream symbolism is highly dubious, and it's not clear that dreams aren't mostly just firing of random neurons while your brain takes a break. Jung and Freud both believe that dreams are a magic code into the subconscious, but there's no evidence of that, and in Freud's work it's quite clear that he was just making up a lot of it as he went along (his whole game is taking something innocent and saying it is obscene, and taking something obscene and saying it is innocent). If talking through the dream helps you talk through your own life, by all means, give it a shot. But if you're willing to just say, "the mind does funny things when one dreams, and I'm certainly not personally accountable for anything that I dream," then go ahead and do that. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you that's very interesting. Tell me, how long have you had this feeling that random neurons fire in your brain? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:34, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Dreams don't mean ANYTHING. Everyone who ever claimed that they do mean something has either been discredited (notably: Freud) or had no evidence for that claim in the first place (notably: Freud). Not one single scrap of solid evidence exists that dreams predict anything or inform us of anything. As far as we can tell, your subconscious is doing the equivalent of 'defragging' the hard drive in your computer - rearranging memories in order to store them more efficiently. If you happen to awaken in the course of doing that, some crazy juxtapositions of half-rearranged thoughts and memories happen - fortunately, our brains are wired to erase the memory of dreams fairly soon after this happens - and we don't remember dreams at all if we don't wake up in the middle of them. So don't worry about it. SteveBaker (talk) 18:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please remember that Freud's and Jung's "theories" (technically hypotheses) have no evidence and are currently unfalsifiable. Mr Baker can say that dreams are the result of EM waves sent from the pink, piano-playing aardvarks on the dark side of the moon and it's equally as likely to be true. --Mark PEA (talk) 19:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you could falsify that theory in that EM waves do not pass through the moon (Hence no radio contact). Googlemeister (talk) 19:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I was in a rush and didn't think it through. I meant some sort of (currently) immeasurable entity, like gravitons/gravitational waves were in earlier history. (If my understanding of physics is completely false then just ignore me!). --Mark PEA (talk) 21:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The aardvarks use relays at L4/5. —Tamfang (talk) 03:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

It is not the case that dreams don't mean anything. They are typically symbols about things that are going on in your life or about various anxieties. But they don't predict the future, they reflect the past. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

On what possible basis can you claim that? Where is your evidence?

There is zero evidence - it's nothing more than urban legend. If there was solid evidence, there would be a broad agreement across the field of study - and there is not. What we have is a bunch of guesswork and wishful thinking - along with some tentative inferences based on solid science - but not 100% conclusive. Such neuroscientific evidence as there is reads like this: (quoted from Contemporary dream interpretation): "Hobson & McCarley’s activation-synthesis theory was the first neuropsychological theory of dreaming that strongly criticized Freud (Cheniaux, 2006). According to this theory, during the REM sleep there is a reduction in the aminergic activity, and an increase in the cholinergic activity, particularly in the brainstem. As a result, during the REM sleep the ponto-geniculo-occipital (PGO) spikes periodically generated, which are considered to be the main stimuli of dreams. Their origin is in the brainstem. They are reproduced in the lateral geniculate body of the thalamus and reaching to the visual cortex (occipital), they activate it. Thus, the images of the dream are generated based on stored visual memory traits. This cortical activation takes place randomly. Thus, chaotic images are formed, which subsequently undergo a process of synthesis, building a sequential narrative. Therefore, dreams are generated in the brainstem without any meaning, reflecting clearly the brain activity (Hobson, 1999; Hobson & McCarley, 1977; McCarley, 1998)." - contrary opinions come from people who aren't using fancy scanners to actually measure what's going on - they come from people who are guessing. SteveBaker (talk) 02:28, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

It would probably be more accurate to state that, for the observant, the symbols in dreams can be recognizable to the dreamer. In that sense they can be "meaningful". Not in the Biblical sense, where God warns people in dreams, and such stuff as that which is arguably in the realm of fairy tales. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Obviously dreams are based on your memories, they are just crazy visions with bits from many memories mxedtogether. Your defragging the hard drive explaination backs this up.

Getting back to the original question, Jack had it right when he cited Jung's viewpoint that only the dreamer himself can really know what the symbols mean. As far as the "bad person" thing, that's false. Dreams are just dreams, and have nothing to do with morality. Words and deeds define morality. Dreams do not. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

We can note correlations in the OP's dream narrative. It's duducible that the OP is familiar with English language and culture and has specific experience of wedding ceremonies, the theistic concept of The Devil, a popular musical and has a low emotional threshold. Then before trying any psychoanalysis, look for a physical cause. These expressions: hell, ball of fire, (something) on the face and sweating could all be prompted by overheating. Tonight try sleeping with thinner bedclothes and better bedroom ventilation! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:32, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I need to make enough money to by a laptop

So are there any good jobs a 17 year old could do to quickly earn the required cash?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

must...resist...making...obvious...suggestion. Sadly it's not easy to gather enough money to buy expensive items, otherwise everyone would be doing it. I would say most jobs suitable for 17 year olds aren't going to net you enough to make buying a laptop a feasible proposition in the near future. You'd have to save up for quite some time. If I were you I'd look at alternatives. In the first place, though, do you really need a laptop, or would it just be nice to have one? You obviously have access to a computer already; will that do for now? If you really, really need a laptop (which I doubt, quite honestly) then maybe you could borrow one off of a friend or family member? Or borrow the money from your parents? Or maybe look at payment deals where you pay off the money a bit at a time, although I'd be surprised if many computer shops would advance that kind of credit to a teenager. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I have seen many teens get enough money to get one. There are 100-300$ computers you know.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:44, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Let's say a teen gets a job that pays $5 an hour after taxes and crap are taken out, and works 20 hours a week, that's $100 a week. At that rate it will only be a few weeks. Working and saving for items you want is also an excellent life lesson. StuRat (talk) 13:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Then you've already got your answer, it seems. Take cues from your peers, find a similar job, and there you go. $300 doesn't take long to save, even from a low-end job, when you're not having to pay rent or utilities. — Lomn 13:49, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Be a barrista, waiter/waitress, something like that. I have a friend who has worked at McDonald's since he was 16. Everyone says it's a bad idea, but he said it was great - paid well, good flexible hours, and tons of free food. If you work after school and a weekend day, let's say 12 hours total a week, at 10 bucks an hour that's 120 a week; you'd only need a month. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 13:52, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Other jobs that don't require experience are delivering ads to houses, delivering newspapers, working as a stockperson in a store, etc. StuRat (talk) 13:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, your userpage doesn't have any useful information about where you live and such but some possible suggestions are doing yardwork for your neighbors (raking leaves if you live in the northern hemisphere, cutting grass in the southern), waiter, busboy, dishwasher, golf caddy, etc etc etc Dismas|^(talk) 13:59, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Laptops that are several years old are almost worthless e.g. because they lack functions such as USBs, DVD, CD, camera and SVGA graphics. People throw them away. Find a thrower. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "several," but a laptop from 10 years ago would almost certainly have USBs, DVDs, CDs, and certainly SVGA graphics. (Probably not an integrated camera, as those are more recent. And, most importantly, probably no Wifi!) 20 years, probably not. They are almost worthless not because they are from the stone age, but because they often lack in speed and size compared to current ones. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually I'm pretty sure many 1999 laptops would not have DVD drives. They would most likely have CDs, USB (albeit only 1.0 or 1.1) and SVGA graphics though Nil Einne (talk) 23:57, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

If I understand you, you're suggesting that he buy a secondhand laptop. But if it's so useless as to be thrown away by its previous owner, it's unlikely that it'll meet the OP's needs either. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:50, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

We can not determine that as we do not know the OP's needs. Googlemeister (talk) 15:49, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

My needs are that it has a wifi card installed.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 17:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

When I was in High School, some 18 years ago or so, I worked at a local mom-and-pop pizza delivery place and easily cleared $100-$200 a week. I'd work a 12 hour shift on a saturday would often clear $100 in tips alone. And that was 18 years ago. --Jayron32 17:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you considered a netbook? Such a thing would be slower than a regular laptop, but brand new, and cheap. Also look into the OLPC machine, which may fit your needs. And keep looking on Craigslist, though the owners of those laptops always think they are worth a lot more than they are. Keep working at that $10/hour job. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a tough time for anyone to be finding a job in most parts of the world. However, I managed to find a job during the last deep recession, when I was 18, and when US unemployment rates were similar to today's. I got a retail job working as a stocker and cashier in a chain drugstore. It didn't pay a lot. As others have said, if you don't have to pay for rent or food, you can quickly save hundreds working even at this kind of low-wage job. The trick to finding the job, for me, was pounding the pavement. I went door-to-door and probably filled out more than 50 applications before the drugstore manager looked at my application and granted me a quick interview on the spot. She told me to show up for a trial week of work the next Monday. I got through the trial and kept the job for a few months until I found something better. Ask your parents' friends if they know of any jobs you could do. Ask your friends' parents. Ask other adults you know. Pound the pavement. There aren't a lot of jobs out there, but there are a few, and if you're persistent, you'll find one. Marco polo (talk) 18:31, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Not sure where you live, but here in the UK a lot of computer companies now give away free laptops when you subscribe to mobile broadband (typically £10 a month), so as long as you can earn £10 a month from a job you can in theory have a laptop straight away... This does however mean you also need to have a mobile phone but you can also get those on reletively cheap tariffs or even Pay As You Go, which I am sure also works with mobile broadband... Either way there are cheap options out there... Not sure whether this setup exists in US or not if that's where you are... Gazhiley (talk) 08:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Who'd have thought 30 years ago that teenagers would be expecting wifi cards... We made do with these. But we were happy then. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:31, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Supermarket? I work in one and I'm 16. I earn €9.50 an hour, a phenominal amount of money for a job like it. I bought this high spec computer with the money (Well €9.50 goes miles when I odn't have to pay the bills or for food). 92.251.255.16 (talk) 21:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Effective cat deterrent for the garden

We've tried powders, granules, gels and sonic repellents but the darn things keep crapping in our garden. Can anyone recommend any more effective deterrents, short of buying a dog or placing mousetraps in the borders? Would a bird deterrent like this work at all?Popcorn II (talk) 15:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There's this page from WikiHow, but the first deterrent is ridiculous. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 15:50, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The others are not that much better, either. Trap the cat and drop it off at the animal shelter? Come on, it's probably just your neighbor's, and if we start trapping each other's pets every time they annoy us, god knows what happens next. Cover the ground with chicken wire? Surely the cat crap is easier to ignore than that.

It sounds like the OP has tried everything sane, short of the dog (but even with a dog, the cat may come at night—though in my experience they start avoiding the yard after a few run-ins). (No, mousetraps aren't not sane, that's just cruel.) The thing about cats is that they are extremely mobile, intelligent up to a point (but not great at generalizing lessons), and if they enjoy pooping in your garden, they'll probably keep that up. My recommendation would to buy a little pooper scooper and just throw it out. I know, technically it ought not be your burden to carry, but having a garden means maintenance, and this is really not that much work, as far as gardening goes. Sometimes dogs crap on our lawns, too—that's life. --Mr.98 (talk) 17:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Get your own cat. This will keep everyone else's out of your garden. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Just make sure it's a bigger cat. I've heard ocelots make nice pets. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:35, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I've got a book that recommends rue, onions and vinegar. Hut 8.5 18:27, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

How about a cardboard cut-out of a cat's predator? (I've know idea what their predators are though). --Mark PEA (talk) 19:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

They don't have predators, and I'd be surprised if a cat was fooled by a cutout. They are not as smart as a dog, but they are smarter than that. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:43, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Theyre a lot smarter than dogs, which is one of the reasons they would never be fooled by cut-outs or scarecrows.--Saddhiyama (talk) 21:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Your typical cat ignores the TV, so a cardboard cutout wouldn't likely do anything. However, if a cat hears a cat or dog on TV, it catches their ear. So if there were a motion-sensor that would trigger the loud, angry bark of a dog, that might have a chance of scaring them off. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

According to Cat deterrent and Cat repeller, lion dung is often effective (why do we have 2 articles on this subject?). I suspect that spending a few evenings squirting water at any cats which approach your garden, might be just as effective and easier to obtain the materials. Astronaut (talk) 04:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

They're merged now. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

You want to replace cat dung with lion dung? Good idea. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

When I was a kid (30 years ago), it was common practise in my neighbourhood to put orange peel in places where cats were suspected of entering gardens to do their business. That seemed to work. --KageTora - SPQW - (影虎) (talk) 08:31, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Orange peel sounds easy enough, I'll give that a go. It's just we've got 4 cats on one side and 1 cat on the other side and no cat of our own so our garden is just a toilet for the local cats.Popcorn II (talk) 12:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

1) If you can identify the cat(s) and their owners, and prove this (maybe with a pic), you can take it to the neighbor and request that they either keep their cat inside or clean up cat turds on your lawn from that point on. I would have said you could ask them to train their cat(s) to use a cat pan, but that's unlikely to work if they are now adult cats. Be polite when talking to the neighbor(s).

2) You could also build a better fence. Cats are good climbers, so either a wooden fence or a chain-link fence are easy for them to climb. What you need to add is that part on top of the fence that extends horizontally out from your fence. It's normally made of barbed wire, but that's not needed here. Make sure local ordinances don't forbid this type of fence, or get a variance. Of course, you also need to make sure there's no holes in the fences or open spots at the bottom.

3) If they only visit at night, maybe a motion-sensitive light would scare the cats off. StuRat (talk) 12:45, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I've heard that artificial bobcat urine, which should be available in hunting supply stores, is pretty effective at scaring cats away. You might want to try that. John M Baker (talk) 18:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Cats like to use as toilet a loose granular surface which they can claw over to bury the evidence. Cat sand from a pet shop is ideal. The OP can put out a tray of sand (out of the rain) and maybe that will divert the cats. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:31, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Record a big dog barking and play that occasionally. If neighbours complain you know what to say. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Coleus canina is a plant marketed under the names Pee-off and Scaredy-cat. It is said to repel cats and other mammals from the garden. SteveBaker (talk) 22:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

An option if your neighbours cherish their cats but you don't particularly cherish their opinion of you is to put up a sign saying CATS WANTED FOR MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Sunscreen - how thick?

When I put sunscreen on I rub it until it disappears and my skin no longer feels greasy. My wife slathers it on thick so that her skin is clammy and I can tell where she has applied it. Is she going overboard, or am I not applying enough? Also, what effects do wearing light or dark clothing have on blocking UVA and UVB?

I've seen articles stating that most people use too little sunscreen. Here's one such. Marco polo (talk) 19:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Package instructions also mention the need for repeat application at intervals depending on activity (swimming, sweating). Product-specific information can be searched on manufacturers' websites, which usually have FAQ and Contact us features. For personal sensitivity and local solar radiation levels, it might be worthwhile consulting your family practicioner or perhaps a dermatologist. -- Deborahjay (talk) 13:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

ICBM numbers

I would like a list of the 5 permanent members of the UN security council with the number of nuclear armed ICBMs each possesses. We don't seem to have such a list here, does anyone know that data? Googlemeister (talk) 19:49, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

They are in List of states with nuclear weapons with the amount of warheads they possibly have, but not the amount of individual missiles as some will be multi-warhead and some will have no warhead fitted at this time. Nanonic (talk) 20:05, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

That list of warheads will include things like gravity bombs and short ranged cruise missiles as well as ICBMs. I am looking for # of ICBM warheads only. Googlemeister (talk) 20:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Our article on ICBMs references this estimate of the US and Russia's inventories. Per ICBM, France and the UK deploy only sub-based ICBMs (and on comparatively few subs), so those should be easy to tabulate. This site estimates China's inventory. — Lomn 21:09, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

On the "List of states" page there are references in the total numbers that lead back to articles published by the NDRC in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Those generally break down the total numbers (estimated, of course, since stockpiles are closely guarded secrets) of deployed weapons and the particular delivery vehicles. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)