Talk:Mariah Carey

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2022

105.9.169.249 (talk) 19:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Mariah birth day is 27 Match 1970 not 1969 source billboard.com

 Not done: please refer to the discussions and FAQ near the top of this talk page, the note next to the birth date in the lead section of the article, and this discussion. Consensus has been established that the birth date currently listed in the article is almost certainly correct. PlanetJuice ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Correction

Mariah Carey's birthday is incorrect. On Wikipedia the birthday says 1969 but it is 1970. Her mother, Patricia Carey, verified that Mariah Carey was born in 1970. She said this during a major interview with Oprah in the mid '90s while they were discussing racism and the effects that it had. Please Google it and correct this on the website. Thank you Sarah Julianne (talk) 20:34, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Not done. See Note A in the article which reads as follows:

While some sources give a birth year of 1970, a birth announcement in Carey's hometown newspaper The Long-Islander indicates 1969, as do others.

Shearonink (talk) 21:29, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested edits - Introduction to 'Mariah Carey' page + 2020–present: The Rarities and The Meaning of Mariah Carey' section

Hello. I noticed there was some doubts about some of the edits I'd made to the 'Mariah Carey' page so thought I'd explain them in more detail.

(1) 'Carey is regarded as one of the most celebrated singer-songwriters in music history and is one of the best-selling music artists of all time, with sales of over 220 million records worldwide.'

- This is directly paraphrased from the cited source, which is from her profile on the Songwriter's Hall of Fame page. This is not a direct reference to her nomination, which is listed later in the paragraph. The basis for this edit was the introductory paragraph on Prince's page, which is cited from a Billboard magazine profile: 'Widely regarded as one of the greatest musicians of his generation, he was known for his flamboyant, androgynous persona and wide vocal range, which included a far-reaching falsetto and high-pitched screams.'. The aim is to signpost the information listed later, namely her chart statistics as a solo artist, songwriter and producer, as well as her awards and nominations.

(2) 'The remix reached number one on the US Digital Song Sales chart, became a top 10 hit in Australia, and was certified 'Silver' in the United Kingdom. The song was also nominated for the Song of the Summer Award at the 2022 MTV Video Music Awards, earning Carey her first nomination at the ceremony in fourteen years since "Touch My Body" in 2008.'

- This is all factual information about the song, 'Big Energy (Remix)'. It is correctly sourced and is directly relevant to the career section '2020–present: The Rarities and The Meaning of Mariah Carey'. The wording in the section is in accordance with how other paragraphs in her Wikipedia page regarding singles have been worded.

Would it be possible to get some consensus on these requested edits before potentially adding them in?

Cucas1234 (talk) 14:13, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I have no objections to adding Australia or UK bits for the "Big Energy" Remix, but component charts like the digital songs chart are better reserved for the song's article and nowhere near as important as primary charts for nations. As for the award, let's wait until a winner is announced before talking about that here. No strong opinion on how exactly to phrase that bit for the lead. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 20:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I definitely agree with SNUGGUMS. The page is on Mariah, not her songs. If the charting was perhaps important to her career (like longest running number one, etc), then I would agree. Else it seems irrelevant in comparison to the song release itself. As for the VMA, she has an awards page already and if every single award was mentioned, it would seem like we are just adding extra and superfluous information.

As for the lead, I would say that specific phrase is very loose and could apply to anyone. Perhaps if you had more sources with similar phrasing? But even then, several articles could say Mariah is the greatest vocalist of all time but it would seem imprudent to add it to Mariah's page when we could also do the same to Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, Aretha Franklin, Christina Aguilera, Jennifer Hudson, etc. Also FYI, the Prince example you've used has already been reverted. Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 12:04, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, seeing as though the Prince edit was reverted. I'd be happy for the Australia and UK bits of the 'Big Energy' Remix to be added - as for the VMA, that could be mentioned following the ceremony (whether she's merely nominated or wins).

As for the 'most celebrated singer-songwriter' sentence, I was only suggesting it for consistency / signposting purposes as it seemed slightly odd that there was no build up to the list of chart achievements listed in the third paragraph. If you decide to add the sentence, there's more sources that identify it as a distinguishing point:

(1) https://www.theringer.com/music/2020/9/29/21493233/mariah-carey-unified-theory-the-meaning-of-mariah - 'Hardly any of Mariah’s contemporaries or successors in the pop music sphere write or produce their own music; but generally speaking, instead of being lauded for their singular vocal techniques, they’re framed as simple, pretty faces'.

(2) https://jezebel.com/mariah-careys-current-moment-legacy-dahling-1845289199 - 'Most outstanding is the perennial reminder of her greatness, “All I Want for Christmas Is You,” a snapshot of Carey at her vocal peak and in full mastery of her songwriting prowess that has reached across generations'

(3) https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurenalvarez/2020/09/27/why-doesnt-mariah-carey-get-the-songwriting-credit-she-deserves/?sh=268fdaea79cd - 'Mariah Carey has proven herself as a songwriter, yet many don’t give her the credit she deserves. Her memoir is promising because it will lay out how she has influenced popular culture and music on deeper levels. It will also reveal what she has had to sacrifice to do so — disclosing the exact details that solidify her placement as one of the best musicians in the last four decades. It’s about time an expanded audience (far more than Lambily) will acknowledge her talent, especially how she paved the way for so many pop stars today and how not one artist has come close to her chart-breaking records throughout the years. Fans have stood by Carey and continue to stand by her because she is the real deal, but it will be even more refreshing for the world to understand the artist’s longevity as a songwriter with her truth in the new memoir. It will further give music fans insight into what a historic songwriter she has been.'

These are just a few of the sources I could find, so do let me know if you think it could be mentioned - artists such as Michael Jackson ('he is regarded as one of the most significant cultural figures of the 20th century'), Madonna ("A prominent cultural figure in the 20th and 21st centuries, Madonna remains one of the most "well-documented figures of the modern age"), and Jay Z ('He is regarded as one of the most influential hip-hop artists of all time') have similarly phrased sentences in their introduction, and so it wouldn't be remiss for someone like Mariah to have one. Cucas1234 (talk) 13:20, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

For the record, Maxwell King123321, we can add some chart details for songs here. The reason I would support adding how it made the top 10 in Australia is because it was on the main ARIA Charts and not some Australian component. In fact, it seems to be her most recent track to reach that range since 2013's "#Beautiful" with Miguel (outside of "All I Want For Christmas Is You" going number 1 in 2018 after its 1994 peak of number 2). Maybe we could use it to signify some sort of resurgence there? Either way, America's primary chart is Billboard Hot 100 instead of the Digital Songs. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:12, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I definitely find the sources credible exccept Jezebel as per WP:JEZEBEL. Otherwise, I see no fault in adding it but I think we would benefit from more opinions. And thanks for letting me know Snuggums. I just assumed we only mentioned Billboard Hot 100 and other big charts like that. . Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 22:32, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Unless someone makes a record on component charts, I generally recommend having musician bio pages stick to primary charts (or "big charts" as you call them) like Hot 100 for US, the UK Singles Chart, Australia's ARIA charts, the Canadian Hot 100, etc. for nations when talking about their songs. This is one of the bigger charts for sure. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:48, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Perfect! I'll add in the Big Energy (Remix) information and make sure the US Digital Charts information is excluded (so will only be adding information about Australia and the BPI certification in the UK - I can update the VMA information once the ceremony is completed).

As per the additional sources for the 'most celebrated singer-songwriter' line, in place of the Jezebel source, there is also this Vibe magazine profile: https://www.vice.com/en/article/wj3dvm/mariah-carey-best-songs-guide-playlist-essay

"Beyond her unnatural ability to sing, the voice she possessed in her songwriting was equally as strong. “Even from the beginning, I said, ‘If you want to put me with people to write with and collaborate, that’s fine, but don’t try to force me to record someone else’s song,” she told Rolling Stone in 2006. Writing was a part of establishing her autonomy."

It is impossible to identify every source / review that mentions her songwriting - in light of the listed sources (from such institutions as the Songwriter's Hall of Fame, The Ringer, Forbes and Vibe), would it be possible to include the line? Cucas1234 (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

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