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Candidate colors/gradients

I've reverted the colors of each candidate in the infobox to what I orignally put for them, the actual colors themselves I am not fussy about but I would suggest we use the shadings of 70-80% in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Elections and Referendums/USA legend colors/proposals so in the future when county maps of the primary are done it's easy to create shadings for how much each candidate won each county by. Matthew McMullin (talk) 13:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

to add to this also, I've saved the red color shadings for the potential that DeSantis does run for the nomination, if he does not we can swap somebody else in for that color at a later date Matthew McMullin (talk) 13:31, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken the liberty to update some of the colors using the hue subpage on Wikipedia:WikiProject Elections and Referendums/USA legend colors/proposals/2023a all and have a list of hues below, I welcome all feedback on these so we can have a proper forward thinking agreement on which hues to use for candidates, the proposal I have put below draws inspiration from the 2016 GOP primary colors used

Update: I've added potential colors for Chris Sununu & Tim Scott, should they eventually decline a run I'll remove them

Update 2: added Chris Christie colors should he run

Update 3: changed Chris Sununu to purple on request, also removed (should he run) from Tim Scott

Update 4: updated DeSantis name

Update 5: swapped Elder & scott colors, added Burgum

Update 6: removed Sununu

Update 7: added pence

Update 8: added Francis Suarez (should he run)

Donald Trump
Hex code	Percentage
`#eef1fd`	<30%
`#dee3fb`	30–40%
`#b5bded`	40–50%
`#8d9ae2`	50–60%
`#6778d7`	60–70%
`#4156cd`	70–80%
`#3343a2`	80–90%
`#243179`	>90%

Ron DeSantis
Hex code	Percentage
`#fcebf0`	<30%
`#fad7e0`	30–40%
`#efa6b8`	40–50%
`#e7728f`	50–60%
`#dc3962`	60–70%
`#c81945`	70–80%
`#a8002a`	80–90%
`#7f0020`	>90%

Nikki Haley
Hex code	Percentage
`#fceee6`	<30%
`#fadecc`	30–40%
`#eab591`	40–50%
`#dd8c55`	50–60%
`#ce5e13`	60–70%
`#ba4f08`	70–80%
`#993d00`	80–90%
`#742e00`	>90%

Asa Hutchinson
Hex code	Percentage
`#feeffe`	<30%
`#fcdffc`	30–40%
`#efb6ef`	40–50%
`#e68ce6`	50–60%
`#dc63dc`	60–70%
`#cd39cd`	70–80%
`#a526a5`	80–90%
`#7b1b7b`	>90%

Tim Scott
Hex code	Percentage
`#ecf9f6`	<30%
`#d9f3ec`	30–40%
`#a9ddce`	40–50%
`#7cc9b3`	50–60%
`#4bb597`	60–70%
`#11a279`	70–80%
`#0e805f`	80–90%
`#095e46`	>90%

Vivek Ramaswamy
Hex code	Percentage
`#f9f2e0`	<30%
`#f3e5c0`	30–40%
`#dcc17b`	40–50%
`#c79e36`	50–60%
`#b17f00`	60–70%
`#9b6f00`	70–80%
`#7c5900`	80–90%
`#5e4300`	>90%

Larry Elder
Hex code	Percentage
`#eef6fd`	<30%
`#deedfb`	30–40%
`#b4d0ec`	40–50%
`#8db8e2`	50–60%
`#679fd7`	60–70%
`#4187cd`	70–80%
`#336aa2`	80–90%
`#244e79`	>90%

Chris Christie
Hex code	Percentage
`#ecf7e6`	<30%
`#d9efcc`	30–40%
`#aad691`	40–50%
`#7dbe57`	50–60%
`#54a625`	60–70%
`#348e00`	70–80%
`#297000`	80–90%
`#1e5300`	>90%

Doug Burgum
Hex code	Percentage
`#fceeeb`	<30%
`#faddd7`	30–40%
`#efb2a6`	40–50%
`#e78572`	50–60%
`#dc5439`	60–70%
`#c83619`	70–80%
`#a71c00`	80–90%
`#7f1500`	>90%

Mike Pence
Hex code	Percentage
`#f2fae0`	<30%
`#e5f4c1`	30–40%
`#c2de7c`	40–50%
`#a0c938`	50–60%
`#81b300`	60–70%
`#719d00`	70–80%
`#5b7e00`	80–90%
`#445f00`	>90%

Francis X. Saurez
Hex code	Percentage
`#FDF5ED`	<30%
`#FCECDD`	30–40%
`#EED0B2`	40–50%
`#E4B78A`	50–60%
`#DA9F64`	60–70%
`#D1873D`	70–80%
`#A56B30`	80–90%
`#7C4F21`	>90%

Mike Rogers/John Bolton (should either run)
Hex code	Percentage
`#FEE5E9`	<30%
`#FCE3E7`	30–40%
`#EFBEC7`	40–50%
`#E699A9`	50–60%
`#DA3877`	60–70%
`#A52657`	70–80%
`#8A1743`	80–90%
`#77153A`	>90%

Matthew McMullin (talk) 14:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:72.183.119.220 I hope this is helpful to you, I've made Trumps color a very close match to his 2016/2020 color as you requested Matthew McMullin (talk) 14:14, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest maybe changing Sununu's color to something more distinct, as the current color is very close to Haley's. Maybe a violet/purple? QuailWatts (talk) 01:00, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A lavender color would work very well, it fits the state flower of New Hampshire, the purple lilac. HurricaneKappa (talk) 19:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

will do, give me a couple minutes to find a decent color pallete Matthew McMullin (talk) 13:49, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I like the purple you've chosen for Sununu! HurricaneKappa (talk) 00:32, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wait what was Sununu’s original color? 2603:6080:2105:AA26:24C8:2F05:A6D6:C1D7 (talk) 01:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great color you using for Doug 2603:6080:2105:AA26:950A:E67C:38D1:C8D0 (talk) 23:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What about Mike Rogers? 2603:6080:2105:AA26:70E9:D2B5:6EF8:E8A0 (talk) 21:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Mike Rodgers would be a major candidate, he was only in congress and that was 10 years ago Matthew McMullin (talk) 21:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also what about Francis X. Suarez? 2603:6080:2105:AA26:70E9:D2B5:6EF8:E8A0 (talk) 21:53, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

atm Suarez isn't a major candidate imo, unless he either gets a big media coverage session or a decent polling number Matthew McMullin (talk) 21:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to use the lime color you wanted to use but that didn’t work so I tried to do a revision and it is still messed up WONKAKlD (talk) 20:03, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest using a pink magneta color for Mike Rogers WONKAKlD (talk) 17:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

mike rogers is not a major candidate so he will not be receiving a color Matthew McMullin (talk) 20:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Currently all candidates are different shades that vastly rade on shade, with ome having a 40-50 shade while others use the 70–80% shade, I feel this leads to the candidate's page feeling like a disorganized mess, with very few colors complimenting/balancing the others out. Thus, I'd like to open a discussion to change all candidates colors (barring trump) to a uniform shading. 2603:8080:4D01:6516:1941:3E6F:67D3:3754 (talk) 18:04, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the reason the candidate shades are different is to avoid colours clashing with each other so each candidates colour is easily recognizable Matthew McMullin (talk) 22:37, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think all candidate colors should be same shade I suggest using 70-80 WONKAKlD (talk) 12:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please change Doug’s color it is too similar to Haley’s and Ron’s maybe make it a toothpaste color like what they were originally using for Pence WONKAKlD (talk) 13:22, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How about Pence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2806:103E:D:9361:AD05:2DC3:674A:9099 (talk) 22:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just bumping this to stop the archive bot. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 20:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I plan to add a color for Pence once we get an expected formal launch time frame, currently he's still pending a decision but if he does in fact run I'll most likely use a lime green for him Matthew McMullin (talk) 21:15, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What about Burgum? HurricaneKappa (talk) 00:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

personally I don't plan on adding a color palate for Burgum as I myself don't consider him to be a "major candidate". his potential best primary performance would be in North Dakota itself but ND doesn't have a GOP primary until June so I imagine he'll have dropped out by that stage. if he manages to get himself up to polling 5-10 in Iowa I might make one for him Matthew McMullin (talk) 11:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could be just my eyes but I see Trump/Scott and DeSantis/Haley/Ramaswamy as closely matching colors. Given these are currently the top polling candidates, perhaps switching some to the more distinct purple & green would be a good idea, if the polling doesn't change of course. Twentytwenty4 (talk) 20:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Scott has a genuine chance of winning some counties in South Carolina because he's their senator, which will make a county-vote-margin map really questionable if Trump and Scott are both winning in counties next to each other and they're both colored blue. My suggestion is that Tim Scott be colored a bright (as opposed to Trump's dark blue) turquoise or a bright orange. Trajan1 (talk) 17:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could swap scott and elders colors, would that be suitable for you? Matthew McMullin (talk) 21:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think Tim Scott is gonna withdraw before the primaries WONKAKlD (talk) 12:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Burgum would qualify as a major candidate under the "current or previous holder of significant elected office" criterion, if he runs. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really think the governor of North Dakota is a significant elected office, rarely is north dakota or bergum himself mentioned in mainstream news networks and the state of north dakota itself and the events which happen in it is rarely discussed nationally/internationally. if Bergum had a national noteworthy story which propelled him to the national stage such as what Chris Christie had in 2012 or Ron DeSantis currently Matthew McMullin (talk) 21:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Burgum is a governor, ergo he qualifies. It's pretty cut and dry. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

this doesn't hold up when we look at past primaries, in 2016 people such as Jim Gilmore, Chris Christie, George Pataki, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker and Rick Perry all ran as governors but they were not given a specific color shading Matthew McMullin (talk) 22:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, giving Burgum a pre-emptive color is no big deal. The universe will not come crashing down because we gave the Governor of North Dakota a specific color shade. He is self-funded which gives him at least the plausibility of getting through 2023 and holding on until Iowa and New Hampshire. Trajan1 (talk) 19:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, Pence declared yesterdasy. I assume thatmeans we can add him. 8.243.213.122 (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've now added him Matthew McMullin (talk) 20:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not here to say who is "major" among the major candidates and who isn't, but right now we have 10 (current or expected) candidates assigned colors, with eight gradients for each candidate's color. That means 80 potential shades so far. When we actually have to start filling in the counties and states next year, we may want to revisit these colors and gradients to ensure that the maps are comprehensible. Let's be open to changing the color decisions in the future. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:06, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with Metropolitan90's suggestion to be open to changing the color decisions for the candidates in the future. With 10 major candidates already assigned colors and gradients, possibly revisiting these choices when filling in counties and states next year will ensure that the maps remain comprehensible. Expoe34 (talk) 23:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

of course, when all is said and done and the primaries are over looking back at the color pallette is needed, I myself doubt that even half the people listed will actually win a county so we'll have plenty of options Matthew McMullin (talk) 14:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Starting to realize that Ramaswamy and Suarez's colors kinda look the same, thinking about a green like what's used by the University of Miami, like what I suggested when Sununu was a potential candidate relating to him being governor of NH and NH's state flower. HurricaneKappa (talk) 18:13, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Burgum's recent color change was almost identical to Haley's color. I changed it to the previous color used because I think it worked best as it was more distinguishable than the colors used on other candidates. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:03, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You should add a color for John Bolton, Rick Perry and Glenn Youngkin *should they run) 2806:103E:D:F5D3:50E6:A51B:B527:6A85 (talk) 22:18, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Revisiting Perry Johnson as a Major Declared Candidate Again

In the past, many people have argued that Perry Johnson should be considered a major declared candidate. While 27 different sources that specifically covered his candidacy were cited, 23 of them were disqualified for a variety of reasons, including them being syndicated, too local, not focusing enough on the candidacy, the sources not being reputable enough, along with a variety of other reasons. As a result of these disqualifications, he was then declared ineligible to be a major declared candidate. The full list of these sources and the discussion about them can be visited in the archives for anyone who wishes to see them. As of April 26th, TulsaPoliticsFan stated that Perry Johnson appeared in five polls according to FiveThirtyEight. Regardless of his poll situation, I think that at this time, Perry Johnson clearly has the consensus five national source requirement to appear as a Major Declared Candidate. The following sources were agreed to have fulfilled the requirements before the aforementioned discussion was archived:

He has since gained considerably more traction. For example, these articles have all appeared in the past week, are specifically about his candidacy and each have national reach: Market Realist, VB News, Ground News, another VB article, USA News, Head Topics I'm not sure how videos are counted, but for what it's worth, this is a YouTube video from Forbes specifically about Perry Johnson's candidacy posted in the past week: Forbes YouTube Video

Keep in mind, all of this was in the last week and there are many, many more articles that have appeared about him before then. However, as per the consensus requirement for significant media attention, only five sources are required and Johnson clearly meets that standard. Perryj1622 (talk) 04:28, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, correct me if I'm wrong, but I actually don't think we came to a five-article consensus. If you recall, I was arguing that there should be no specific threshold and that significant media attention was more of a "I know it when I see it" kind of thing. If there must be some kind of objective measure, it should be 25 articles. I know someone suggested five, but there were suggestions for ten and fifteen, as well. I thought the debate trailed off at that point, and no consensus was reached. Vrivasfl (talk) 12:04, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I recall when we discussed this earlier that 20 was considered too many by most parties. The more recent archived section "Larry Elder Declared Classification" seems to suggest that 5 is consensus. Perryj1622 (talk) 17:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think Perry Johnson can come to the Declared Major Candidates but I think he needs a Picture which will be hard to do. 2603:6080:2105:AA26:950A:E67C:38D1:C8D0 (talk) 23:14, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I need to apologize for my prior comment on 538. I misread two state polls as national polls which puts Johnson at 3 national polls, not 5. That's my mistake and I should have read more carefully. As far as the substantial media coverage goes, I don't really have an opinion and will defer to consensus.

Also just for ease of access here are the archived discussions on Johnson: Johnson 1, Johnson 2, Johnson 3 Johnson 4 TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 16:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we've reached a consensus as to how many articles are needed to satisfy the media coverage standard. If I had my preference, it would be a lot more than 5 articles. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:28, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elder was admitted with very few actual sources that satisfy the requirements that were solidified in the last Johnson topic page. Refer to "Larry Elder Declared Classification." Out of those, two of the articles are videos, which was enough to disqualify some sources for Johnson. Four of the articles are syndicated. Even if the requirement were ten, Elder would not have met it (he may not have met seven), yet he was admitted as a Major Declared Candidate, at the time, solely based on his media attention. Now he does also meet the polling requirement but during the time he was first added to the section, he didn't and those few articles were enough to qualify him. We have to apply the standards we are using to include candidates equally. Perryj1622 (talk) 23:46, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. If we make a mistake and add a non-major candidate, then that shouldn't be an excuse to compound error. If some editors added Elder before he should have been added, that is not a reason to add Johnson before he should be added. It's silly to argue that we both listed Elder too early and that we should list Johnson now. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:33, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not arguing that Elder was admitted before he should have been. I'm saying he was admitted using standards that obviously align with consensus by virtue of the fact that he was admitted (and which I view to be reasonable) and that we should apply those same standards to all other candidates. Otherwise, we are giving preferential treatment to some candidates over others. Perryj1622 (talk) 00:40, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, I believe that was a mistake. He only barely qualifies now based on polling, which strengthens my belief that the polling threshold is too low. I agree with you that he really hasn't received significant media attention, and he should not have been added on that basis. I'm not in the business of moving goalposts, but if it were up to me, I'd remove Elder. I don't think he's a serious major candidate. Alas, he meets the agreed-upon polling threshold, so what's done is done. Vrivasfl (talk) 00:39, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We could revisit Elder, there is still an open discussion from a few days ago on it, it might get more traction if more than one editor wants to revisit it. But I don't think we're too far off the mark. The NYT had Elder in their major candidate list alongside the Desantis announcement announcement; 538 wasn't including Elder polling averages last I checked. It seems WP:RS are divided; I'd be more worried if no RS was listing Elder with their major candidates. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:47, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no consensus to if the Washington Times is a reliable source per WP:RSP so it should probably be omitted. The ground news article is a regurgitation of the Des Moines Register story. Ground news, despite its name, isn't a news site in its own right, it just hosts stories from other networks and sorts them based on political affiliation and other factors to check for biases. None of the national reach articles you mention appear on WP:RSP, ill open discussion about them in WP:RSN.

I still don't think that he should appear on the list of notable candidates. 1) we still haven't established if he has significant news coverage, that could change depending on how the RSN talks go. 2) he hasn't been in enough polls 3) he's held no prior notable office. By all accounts he should be included as a minor candidate at best.Scu ba (talk) 16:32, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Articles with no consensus have been added in the past for candidates to verify media attention, such as Ramaswamy. For The Washington Times specifically, it is reliable by WP:RSP when there is a lack of other sources. Since we are having this discussion, it should be included. We had the argument for its inclusion over a month ago which seemed to end in the consensus that it should be included. Perryj1622 (talk) 17:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

regardless, you'd still be one short. As per WP:RSN VB is closer to a blog than a news source. Scu ba (talk) 14:08, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem a bit off to me that candidates such as Perry Johnson, running and featured in major media and some polls, are less prominent in the article (due to lack of a picture) than potential candidates that only require a couple of local news sources to be listed. 2.103.101.211 (talk) 13:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. Potential candidates shouldn't have photos. Vrivasfl (talk) 14:45, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be another push to have him added to the "Declared major candidates" section. David O. Johnson (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then How are we determining who is and isn't based major based on media coverage.

Perry Johnson has seen far more coverage than people like Mike Rogers, Steve Laffey, and Corey Stapleton, yet Rogers has hardly any coverage the past month Rhian2040 (talk) 04:08, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Johnson may make it by polling now. He was included in another national Quinnipiac poll and a McLaughlin and Associates poll, where someone named "Perry" polled at one percent, but since there is no one else in the race with that first or last name, I think it's safe to assume that is referring to Perry Johnson, who likely got that as a write-in.

Since I am not sure if the other 3 national polls have been included, I will write them here for reference:

Quinnipiac poll

Cygal

Quinnipiac University. Perryj1622 (talk) 14:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am on your side but Perry probably refers to Rick Perry as they go by surnames. Rhetoricalnoodle (talk) 15:46, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right. If that is the case, that would put him at only 4 polls. Perryj1622 (talk) 15:58, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

National polls that is Perryj1622 (talk) 15:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should make Johnson a major candidate now. In my opinion, he is getting sufficient media coverage and he has been in various polls. Many news sources include him when listing out the major candidates. Rhetoricalnoodle (talk) 15:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with that assessment. Perryj1622 (talk) 15:58, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Out of interest, are you Perry Johnson or part of his campaign? Your username has perryj in it and all your contributions are on this talk page. Rhetoricalnoodle (talk) 16:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, just happen to have a very similar name. I thought it was funny a candidate was running with the same first name as I had and thought that based on the media attention he had received at the time that he should be included so I created a Wikipedia account to make my case here. Perryj1622 (talk) 17:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That really stretches believability, and I note you haven't responded to COI questions on your talk page or the COI noticeboard. --Pokelova (talk) 17:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any harm in listing him. He just about makes it on media coverage from what I can tell, and is 4/5 in polling, but candidates only need to meet 1 of the criteria anyway. It doesn't look like there are that many potential candidates on the horizon so the page isn't going to be swamped, I think someone said the 2020 Democrat page had 20+ candidates. Twentytwenty4 (talk) 20:36, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I know Wikipedia isn’t a bureaucracy, but I like sticking to whatever criteria was agreed upon. It is important to be consistent with our criteria, especially since we do not know if we will be swamped in the near future. Prcc27 (talk) 20:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a criteria of substantial media coverage, but as far as I can see it has never been agreed upon what this actually means. Twentytwenty4 (talk) 21:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To summarise the media coverage he has received so far,he has the big four listed in the opening post, the AP article was shared by the independent and the hill, which are 2 major media organisations with national reach in their own right.

He is talked about amongst other candidates in Politico and Reuters articles,he has been covered by fox news,huffpost, Forbes video and dozens of local sources.

Not going to get a much better spread,going forward it's unlikey there will be articles solely about him, they will be like Reuters in which they talk about the positions of all the candidates on certain topics. 2A00:23EE:2500:91C0:964E:2740:4989:8297 (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

per Wikipedia:Syndication the AP story repeated by the Independent and Hill would only count as one source. He might be listed in Politico and Reuters but they've yet to run an article just on him. Fox news is listed as Generally unreliable in WP:RSP and should never be included. Huffpost has no consensus, and the Forbes video is a video, can't be used as a source. Scu ba (talk) 03:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mediaite can be used and that would be 5. 2.103.101.211 (talk) 13:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I say include him as he has fulfilled atleast one of the needed criteria, however with that said, he currently doesn't have a photo on Wikipedia, and should only be added after someone uploads a (hig quality) photo 2603:8080:4D01:6516:15E2:B8B9:4C09:440D (talk) 08:27, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He doesn't have enough media coverage

he doesn't have a presence in national polls

he has held no prior office

he actually has fulfilled none of the criteria. Scu ba (talk) 03:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Huh... not strange at all. Scu ba (talk) 03:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

he doesn't have major media coverage. Scu ba (talk) 03:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the criteria is 5 sources he qualifies. All these sources are 3 to 4 months old though, I think we need a recency clause of say within 3 months. It shouldn't be hard for major candidates to achieve that.

2.103.101.211 (talk) 14:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Make Perry Johnson a major candidate! According to 538 i=he has been in five national polls!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by YangGang2024 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I still see four national polls on 538. Vrivasfl (talk) 20:19, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yep, same here HurricaneKappa (talk) 18:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Kemp still considering presidential bid, subject to speculation.

Consensus to keep Brian Kemp listed as a declined candidate. IP editors advocated for moving Kemp from 'declined candidates' to 'potential candidates.' Some active editors were open to listing Kemp as a potential candidate after reporting in May an advisor of his said he is reconsidering running. However, the current source has Kemp (himself) saying no in March and current consensus is to prefer the candidate's own statements over the statements of advisors. As I was involved in this discussion, any editor can revert my close and re-open discussion. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 01:59, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2023/05/17/new-poll-shows-how-brian-kemp-stacks-up-against-other-republicans-2024/ Kemp is still being speculated about, his intentions about running are still not very clear. I would recommend returning him to "Potential candidates" 2806:103E:D:48B:0:0:0:3 (talk) 22:34, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with that Perryj1622 (talk) 01:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this source is better than the Wall Street Journal reporting a direct no from Kemp in March. News speculation and polling doesn't outweigh a direct no. Especially because this article says his office made no comment. If they had said "Maybe" or "He's considering it," then maybe we should update it. But not based on this source. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 18:57, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://nowhabersham.com/a-kemp-presidential-run-in-2024-advisor-says-things-can-change-quickly/ 2806:103E:D:BF71:507B:769:CE19:67BF (talk) 02:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hall said that he does not “actively” expect a 2024 U.S. presidential run from Kemp but is open to the possibility. I don't think this is super persuasive that he's a potential candidate either. He said no in March and his advisor says he's not expecting a run in May. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 03:35, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with TulsaPoliticsFan. We do not move someone out of the declined section if they have not recanted their initial declination. Prcc27 (talk) 03:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree with TulsaPoliticsFan, Kemp in plain white and black text said no. The media can speculate on a campaign all they want, but until he personally changes things we should keep him in declined. Scu ba (talk) 16:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other candidates such as Noem and Carlson have also said no, but the media continues to speculate, thus they are in "potential candidates", in the lalst week, 3 seperate articles have commented of Kemp as a potential candidate in 2024. Mister Conservative (talk) 23:50, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have sources for Noem's no? I'm fine removing her if we have a source for a direct no. Also, I believe, Tucker Carlson was in the declined based on his no until he left Fox which is an unique situation that is not really comparable to Kemp. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:46, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was not implying that Noem should be removed, only that Kemp should be added. I think both are still subject to speculation. Mister Conservative (talk) 01:40, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are a lot of democrat candidates in the same situation as Kemp, declined to run but still speculated over. They would need to be relisted as potential candidates if Kemp is listed as such. 92.16.56.134 (talk) 22:17, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kemp is listed in the Declined section, though (as he should be). No matter what the speculation is, if a person has outright declined a presidential run, they go in the Declined section.David O. Johnson (talk) 22:28, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

greed. If they are subject to speculation about a potential candidacy then they should be relisted as potential candidates.a 2806:103E:D:C9B7:4461:E5AE:0:C9FC (talk) 22:47, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Brian Kemp keeps getting re-added to Potential candidates section

A user keeps adding Brian Kemp to the Potential section, without reason.

First edit: [1], second edit: [2], third edit: [3]. David O. Johnson (talk) 01:38, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He has walked back his previous comments and left the door open[4] Twentytwenty4 (talk) 22:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that looks like a change in his stance since the last discussion was closed. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 05:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where does he walk back his declination though? Seems pretty vague to me. Prcc27 (talk) 05:48, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was a direct no before, now it's no plans, but anything can happen. Back in March I had ruled him out, but this new stance and the continued media speculation has changed that. Twentytwenty4 (talk) 13:49, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Youngkin

What has happened to him?

Last I saw he was bouncing between potential candidate and declined candidate, now he isn't in either list. Was that the compromise reached?

92.16.56.134 (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the archives it seems we had listed him as potential since he'd "ruled out a run this year" but there is speculation of him announcing early next year. I'll re-add him now until we get a new consensus or a new source where he declines totally. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 21:56, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It looks like new information has come out since I created this topic, and Youngkin is deciding whether to run, he has been moved to decision pending. That seems to be the right place for him given the information available. 92.16.56.134 (talk) 17:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Youngkin himself hasn't expressed publicly that he's interested. The Axios article said it was a "top source close to Youngkin". I think he should go back to the 'potential' list until Youngkin comments publicly on the subject. Alexjjj (talk) 19:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have a point. Unless the information is coming directly from the candidate, it almost seems like glorified hearsay. Prcc27 (talk) 20:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus can always change, but it's my understanding the "Declined" and "expressed interest" section are for when candidates themselves have said they're interested or said no. Conversely, the burden of proof for the potential candidate section is intentionally lower at media speculation (which is pretty much glorified hearsay, as you put it). TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 18:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For any editor wondering "what happened?": We listed him as potential, a few hours later an Axios (website) article came out quoting an adviser saying he was seriously reconsidering. Youngkin was briefly moved to "Public Expressed Interest," based on this report. However, editors moved Youngkin back to potential since he needs to express interest himself to be in the other section. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think reports should not be considered, an individual's public statements/actions even if they were less recent should take precedence and define what section they are in. Axios simply said an anonymous source told them Youngkin is weighing it. One, just how reliable is that? Two, anybody can be weighing anything. Are they gonna do it though? Veganoregano (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate pictures

Is there guidelines on pictures for the candidates? The pictures seem to be changing every few days for all candidates and is getting a bit annoying. Blake675 (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In past elections I’ve seen RfCs on candidate photos. Might be needed again to avoid edit warring. Prcc27 (talk) 17:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have been trying to put in the best pictures but they keep being taken down. 96.230.191.203 (talk) 01:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should just have them be their most recent official photos/portraits for those who have them. I mean, that's the highest authority there is. They made those for a purpose, they'll be flattering, and that's the way they want to present themselves to the world. Veganoregano (talk) 08:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That works for me. Prcc27 (talk) 19:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://ballotpedia.org/Republican_presidential_nomination,_2024

Ballotpedia chose great pictures, and they have an actually good one for Elder Veganoregano (talk) 23:48, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I Agree Ballotpedia has good pictures so I think we should use those WONKAKlD (talk) 11:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Rogers

Found an article from "The State", says Rogers is to jump in this summer.

HurricaneKappa (talk) 17:44, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think his deadline should be summer 2023 and not June 2023. 2806:103E:D:D866:E918:230E:1ED1:9873 (talk) 22:25, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can't read it because it's paywalled, but unless it's a direct statement from him and more recent (April or later) his statement on CBS should be the final word. He said "late spring-early summer" and "May or June" Veganoregano (talk) 23:54, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 30th - youtube.com/watch?v=N1-mn0J-Qwk&ab_channel=CBSNews Veganoregano (talk) 23:55, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should move Rogers to "publicly expressed interest" after 30 June if nothing else happens. Glasperlenspieler (talk) 03:42, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

agreed Veganoregano (talk) 03:45, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

same HurricaneKappa (talk) 18:03, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some declined candidates still being subject to speculation and being discussed as potential candidates.

Among some of the "declined candidates", are names that have continued to be tossed around as potential candidates in the last days. Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, Brian Kemp: https://www.newarab.com/news/look-prospective-2024-us-presidential-contenders I believe they need to be re-added to potential candidates. 2806:103E:D:B06D:9190:4664:251E:D574 (talk) 20:02, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That site isn't listed on the reliable sources page Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. You would have a better case if you could find some speculation in reliable sources. The site you linked even lists Larry Hogan who couldn't have been more clearer that he isn't running for the Republican nomination. Twentytwenty4 (talk) 20:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like Marco Rubio should be in Potential Candidates but that’s just me. 2603:6080:2105:AA26:950A:E67C:38D1:C8D0 (talk) 23:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree completely. Marco Rubio never gave a complete, flat no, when asked about it, in fact, some sources say he avoided the question. He should be moved back to "Potential candidates" 2806:103E:D:C40F:F593:D145:EF9F:4EAF (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But we can’t change it without people doing revisions on our edits. 2603:6080:2105:AA26:24C8:2F05:A6D6:C1D7 (talk) 11:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What's the position of Rubio advocates,that saying you're not running is different to saying you have no plans to run? 2A00:23EE:14E0:8DD9:F680:1B88:5C45:4F0D (talk) 12:03, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

EXACTLY WONKAKlD (talk) 12:17, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Our last discussion didn't find any sources were Rubio said he would run after he was reported as declining in March. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 16:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's the end of candidate joining season and you guys are looking way too deep into this. No major names are coming in that haven't come in already. Regardless, just because there's some article from a random source lying around that chose to include them on a list doesn't mean anything. Isn't this a "kitchen sink?" The rule if I remember it correctly is multiple reputable sources that actually focus on the individual possibly running. Veganoregano (talk) 03:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Source quality matters. Rubio has declined by any reasonable interpretation of "I have no plans and intentions to do anything, run for anything over the next couple of years." It will take at least two reliable sources with a quote from Rubio or at least his staff or an advisor or someone close to the individual walking that comment back, which is what happened with Youngkin. Otherwise, he stays in declined. Vrivasfl (talk) 11:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will Hurd Placement

Since Will Hurd's decision timeframe has passed and he hasn't given any indication on a new timeframe, does it make sense to move him from 'decision pending' to the 'publicly expressed interest' section? Alexjjj (talk) 01:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Vrivasfl (talk) 02:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It’s past Memorial Day I don’t think he is gonna run. WONKAKlD (talk) 01:03, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not, but we'll give him the benefit of waiting until he specifically says he isn't running, or the six-month rule takes effect, whichever comes first. Vrivasfl (talk) 14:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Corey Stapleton is a MAJOR candiate!

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2023/06/01/2024-us-presidential-candidates-election/9721684804723/ 2806:103E:D:D866:DDC5:BA79:B436:C003 (talk) 00:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We've had this discussion, he isn't. Check back in the archive for more information. Also UPI is not on the WP:RSP and would require an entry in WP:RSN to determine if it is a reliable/major source. Scu ba (talk) 03:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After quite a few discussions, I think the current consensus is he is not. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 23:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, ridicoulous that the page has decided Elder is and Stapleton is not Veganoregano (talk) 00:05, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but if we add Stapleton what should his color be? WONKAKlD (talk) 11:06, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest a Gold-yellow color and I think we should put him under Nikki Haley. WONKAKlD (talk) 12:07, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Look, I am sympathetic to the argument that Corey Stapleton is a major candidate and advocated so myself in past discussions (per the major office criteria), but the consensus has been on the other side for months. He was the first candidate to announce and has been in 0 polls, and that in itself is kinda telling. Rick Perry has 3 polls and hasn't announced. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have found more media coverage https://ballotpedia.org/Corey_Stapleton_presidential_campaign,_2024 WONKAKlD (talk) 12:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ballotpedia isn't really "media coverage," it's a more of a reference/tertiary source. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 16:22, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could support adding Stapleton into major candidates. He's been getting more media coverage. The Hill, Yahoo, MSN. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Hill and Yahoo articles are the exact same article, and it's a list format that doesn't really report on the candidates or their campaign in a meaningful sense. Rather, it just pulls some quotes the author found online. The MSN article is a mere passing reference. Stapleton is specifically excluded from the chart of major candidates in that article. The tenor of these articles is exactly the type one would expect of minor candidates. Vrivasfl (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to be talking about trying to fit Corey into the criteria and not focusing on the faultiness of the criteria itself. Simply having attention paid to you doesn't make you a major candidate. The news gave Elder attention because he's an oddball, not because he's anybody's choice. I've thought about it and nobody's going to come back years later and care about sideshows. The candidate section is the top of the page, naturally it should be for important things. Like on the 2012 page where it's brief, I think the criteria should be changed to something like "Current or previous significant officeholder - or has received at least 1-5% in five national polls." As for the timeline, it shows the progression and heating up of the race so it should feature everybody, no criteria. Veganoregano (talk) 20:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your suggestion is dangerously close to original research. It is not Wikipedia's job to question why the media is giving Elder attention. Rightly or wrongly, "having attention" actually does make you a major candidate, and in case you forgot, sometimes the oddball actually wins. Our job is not to question why the media and the pollsters are giving more attention to Elder than Stapleton, and it certainly isn't to create criteria to adjusts for this. We are here to say it like it is. Elder is a major candidate because the reliable sources we cite treat him as a major candidate by reporting on his campaign and including him in polls. Stapleton is a minor candidate because the reliable sources were cite treat him as a minor candidate by mentioning him only in passing and excluding him from polls. Vrivasfl (talk) 21:05, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not original research to say we're not going to put people polling at 0.5% at the top of the page. Veganoregano (talk) 21:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Polling is fact based and this page is about a big poll that's going to happen in 2024. We also organize things for the reader. I'm saying there's a place where we can tell it like it is, and that's lower down the page where Stapleton and Elder and Burgum and such can go. Veganoregano (talk) 21:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so I understand you argument is the current polling criteria, which is inclusion is five national polls is too generous. It should be inclusion in polls *and* a certain polling threshold. That a perfectly reasonable position, but I oppose it for the following reasons: (1) unclear which polls we should use, or if we should use an existing aggregate. If so, which? 538 is perhaps the most well-known aggregator, but this may cause further argument down the road; (2) more criteria creates more opportunity for needless arguments on the talk page, such as what the appropriate threshold should be, and we should strive to do less of that; and (3) I'm not sure it would accomplish the purpose of the article. The chance that Doug Burgum will be the nominee is basically zero, but that's true of everyone not named Trump or DeSantis. The chart is not "here are the people who actually have a shot," it's "here are the people who are being treated as serious contenders due to sustained and significant reporting on their campaigns and inclusion in polls." The current criteria accomplishes this. Vrivasfl (talk) 12:05, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Liz Cheney mistakenly added to Declined candidates

Liz Cheney is currently listed as declined. While sourcing indicates that Cheney may still run, sourcing also indicates that she has declined to run as a Republican (Cheney said last year that she would not be a Republican on the ballot if she ran for the White House in the future- source). Discussion of a potential 3rd party or independent run should take place at 2024 United States presidential election. Before re-adding Cheney, please provide reliable sourcing that she is considering a campaign specially as a Republican candidate. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cheney was moved to decline candidates from potential candidates. The article that was the cause of this stated that Cheney had not "ruled out a presidential bid", it never said a thing about her declining to run. In fact, she has more than 5 articles all talking about her considering a presidential run. 2806:103E:D:D866:E918:230E:1ED1:9873 (talk) 22:23, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did see that. I moved her to publicly expressed interest, from the articles currently circulating, that is the most fair thing to do. 2806:103E:D:D866:E918:230E:1ED1:9873 (talk) 22:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cheney only discussed a third party run in the article:

"Speaking at the 2023 Mackinac Policy Conference in Detroit, Michigan, the three-term conservative was asked if she would consider a third-party campaign." David O. Johnson (talk) 00:35, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Were do you keep getting this stuff that Cheney won't run as a Republican, she was in potential candidates until last week, when she publicly expressed interest in running. I must admit, I couldn't find a thing where she has said she will not run as a Republican. Plus, unless she has left the Republican Party, then that would make no sense. 2806:103E:D:A84A:388F:FDAB:FC1D:C516 (talk) 22:42, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's in the same article: "Cheney said last year that she would not be a Republican on the ballot if she ran for the White House in the future." David O. Johnson (talk) 23:00, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will not run as a Republican = declined for all intents and purposes for this article. Prcc27 (talk) 00:04, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Doug Ducey in Potential candidates

This discussion is a bring-back WONKAKlD (talk) 13:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The last discussion did not find 2 sources from the past 6 months. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 15:03, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the last discussion it was said that The consensus is, to be listed as a potential candidate, they would need two separate major and reliable news sources publishing articles on them and the prospect of running. That doesn't appear to be correct. 5 of the 6 sources for the current candidates listed in potential candidates are local or unreliable news sources. 92.12.12.233 (talk) 02:47, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think he they just stated the rule a little stricter than it actually is. I think we just need two reliable sources from the past 6 months and a lack of contradicting sources (like a source where the candidate explicitly declines). TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 21:56, 12 June 2023 (UTC) edited TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 06:12, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits

User:Veganoregano, in your recent edit you:

Added the candidacy of someone not deemed a "major candidate" per the criteria (Secretary of State is not a major office) to the lede - Elder and Ramaswamy are deemed notable by virtue of meeting the classifications in the "major candidates" section.
Added candidates who have not declared yet and said that they have announced (one of which purportedly announced on a date that has not arrived yet!)
Changed the "denied" section requirements to something you have no consensus to change it to, and something grammatically incorrect ("about a potential candidacy of them" is not grammatically correct).

Per WP:3RR, you're on the precipice of breaking the three-revert rule and are actively edit-warring to reinstate your preferred version. I invite you to self-revert. — ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 22:49, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you find grammatical errors, modify them!? Say they "will " announce a campaign, change it to "about potentially being candidates." Why would you erase it? State Secretary of State is a significant office, but we have a disagreement there I suppose. To me it makes no sense that someone who's polling at 0% who's never held an office is included but not a former state sec of state Veganoregano (talk) 22:59, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will would violate WP:CRYSTAL which is why we don't say "will announce." TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 23:19, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do believe it is allowed when events are scheduled or near certain though right? Veganoregano (talk) 23:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a tone and style thing, we don't know they will announce (things could change), we only know they say they will announce. It's typically more concise to convey this conditionality with words like "pending" than "has said they will." TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, my edits were to the potential section, not the denied. I made it more specific and with common sense as to not overlap with the denied section. Veganoregano (talk) 23:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ted Cruz announced he was not running for president yet was on the potential list. The criteria of the section was nothing but two sources speculating a run about anyone. I simply specified it to say individuals who say they're not running shouldn't be in two sections at once, and obviously shouldn't be considered potential candidates, confusing the reader. Veganoregano (talk) 23:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source were Cruz says he's not running? the last discussion here resulted in him being moved from declined to potentially partially because no one gave a source where he said he wasn't running. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 23:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What Cruz stated was that he will be running for a third term in the senate in 2024, back in February. That makes it almost certain he's not running for any other office at the same time. That would be bizarre. POLITICO declared him "ruled out."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/politics/ted-cruz-senate-2024/index.html

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/republican-candidates-2024-gop-presidential-hopefuls-list/ Veganoregano (talk) 23:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the source that was after his announcement of his re-election campaign and the footnote you removed that stated he can run for both if he chooses? TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 00:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say he can't run for both, I said it would be bizarre and I've never heard of something like that before. People announcing they will seek a third term can be assumed to mean just that. Veganoregano (talk) 00:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marco Rubio ran in both the 2016 Republican Party presidential primaries and the 2016 United States Senate election in Florida; Corey Booker ran in both the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries and the 2020 United States Senate election in New Jersey. It is definitely not unheard of for someone to run both for re-election and in the presidential primary. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 02:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, with regards to Veganoregano's remark about not hearing of someone running for both the Senate and Presidency; perhaps two better examples (although for the Vice-Presidency) can be brought up, both from Texas (Lyndon Johnson running both for Vice-President and re-election to the Senate; winning re-election before becoming Vice-President, and Lloyd Bentsen doing the same runs for Vice-President and re-election, winning re-election while Bentsen and the candidate at the top of the ticket that time, Michael Dukakis, were defeated). WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 14:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I place Cruz in potential candidates once again, I only need help with the picture. 2806:103E:D:C3F9:2877:9E93:C15C:E55E (talk) 22:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the one warring here? You raised this contention Veganoregano (talk) 23:17, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Colors for the remaining "Decision Pending" candidate (Francis X. Suarez)

Revised: Drawing inspiration from the 2016 Republican primary colors, much like Mathew McCullin, I have incorporated the unused color brown into Francis X. Saurez's potential campaign. In order to maintain a cohesive visual theme similar to McCullin's, I have ensured that Saurez's hues align with those of the other candidates.

Francis X. Saurez
Hex code	Percentage
`#FDF5ED`	<30%
`#FCECDD`	30–40%
`#EED0B2`	40–50%
`#E4B78A`	50–60%
`#DA9F64`	60–70%
`#D1873D`	70–80%
`#A56B30`	80–90%
`#7C4F21`	>90%

Expoe34 (talk) 20:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could get behind this. What color with Doug Burgum be? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ted Cruz not a potential candidate

An article from Yahoo yesterday said that "Only one senator, Tim Scott of South Carolina, has entered the 2024 GOP presidential field eight years after senators defined the non-Trump presidential field, with Ted Cruz of Texas, Marco Rubio of Florida, Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina standing out as major candidates. None of them appears interested in giving it another go." Why is he being removed then re-added, then removed and then re-added again and again, it's getting annoying. Can we get a consensus to add him in the declined section until he explicitly says he might/will run. 2601:249:8E00:420:582C:9FCC:D7F6:5BBA (talk) 22:58, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It’s the other way around: the declined section is for those that explicitly decline to run. Prcc27 (talk) 23:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, Youngkin was in the declined section for a bit since he said "no" to a run but then switched gears on a potential run, hence his placement in the potential candidate section. I think this is what the editor means. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There was already a discussion here that resulted in him being moved from declined to potential. We can discuss moving him again, but there is currently consensus to list him as a potential candidate. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 23:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would back the idea of putting Cruz in the decline section being how any media mentions of the 2024 election to Cruz is that he's not running or isn't interested in running. I think it makes more sense to put him in the declined section until we see reliable coverage saying he's at least considering a bid. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We already had this discution, the media can speculate as much as they want on Cruz or Youngkin, or Abbott not running for president, but until we hear directly from them, they stay in potential. 2806:103E:D:C3F9:F1D0:FE27:7DCD:4A00 (talk) 22:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree completely, Cruz should be in potential candidates. 8.243.213.122 (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some user keeps moving Cruz back to declined, we had agreed that until we heard directly from Cruz, potential was the place to put him. 8.243.213.122 (talk) 16:55, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If he's running for re-election one can assume that he's not running for president unless he explicitly states otherwise. Epicradman123 (talk) 22:32, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Need examples that prove that staement wrong? 2806:103E:D:4099:1026:9027:D90B:907C (talk) 22:37, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guys. He’s running for senate and not running for president with any reasonable doubt. People don’t need to say “I name will not run for president in 2024” to get off the potential list. 70.252.19.143 (talk) 06:27, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i AM IN COMPLETE DISAGREEMENT, cRUZ HAS SAID HE INTENDS TO RUN FOR A THIRD TERM BUT HAS NOT RULED OUT A PRESIDENTIAL RUN, HE HAS ALSO BEEN SUBJECT TO SPECULATION A LOT RECENTLY. 8.243.213.122 (talk) 15:13, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Campaign start dates

This may be trivial but Doug Burgum effectively announced his campaign with this op-ed on the 6th. Are we recognizing the date of announcement or the date of fec filing? Elder announced on April 20th but did not file until May 1st. It looks like the timeline is recognizing the former and the major declared section is recognizing the latter.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-dakota-to-the-white-house-economy-energy-presidential-announcement-election-2024-candidate-552a70a0 Veganoregano (talk) 07:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and Burgum actually released a campaign video earlier on the 5th. Veganoregano (talk) 07:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I set up a discussion in the talk page a month or two ago about the subject and most agreed we should go with the FEC filing date. Alexjjj (talk) 21:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Francis X. Suarez and Mike Rogers

If they run will they be Declared Major Candidates or not? WONKAKlD (talk) 10:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Rogers, as a former U.S. Representative, meets the current or former major officeholder criteria. Suarez meets the polling criteria. Vrivasfl (talk) 11:41, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RfC DeSantis Photo

There's been a constant back and forth over the image used for Ron DeSantis. Since his campaign announcement, his image has constantly changed. I think reaching a consensus here would be beneficial as it would give a justification to end a potential edit war. Here I'll lay out some options, but feel free to add more options you think look better. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option A (current)
Option B

Option B
Option C
Option D
Option E
Option F
Option G

Option B or D I'll start off by suggesting that these two images are in better quality than the current image used. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

why are none of the options his actual official photograph Veganoregano (talk) 21:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you see the 2024 Dem primary page and this GOP primary page, there's this trend of not using official portraits onto these pages per the 2016 and 2020 primary articles. Also if his own wiki article isn't using an official photograph, why should this article use it? TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option B or C: The current option is low quality and honestly not a very good crop, especially compared to the other candidates' photos. Any of the remaining options would be better, though out of this bunch I'd rather go with B or C due to their recency. DukeOfDelTaco (talk) 01:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option B: IMO, the best quality image of the given options. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 01:27, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

~~Option B or D~~, but also open to using official portraits for DeSantis and all other candidates. Option B is good quality and has a good background, but his face is at an angle. Option D is good quality and at a good angle, but not a good background. Options F & G are honorable mentions. Whatever we choose, I am vehemently opposed to option C; I do not like the squinting. Also, this section says “RfC”, but it does not look like this has been made into a formal RfC..? We might not need to formally start one though.. Prcc27 (talk) 02:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changing !vote to Option D or G per discussion below. Prcc27 (talk) 22:04, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option B it is Veganoregano (talk) 06:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Option B adding on to the chorus of editors supporting it after the change has been made. Option G is fine too, but B already seems to be the consensus option. Oppose Option A. It's just a little weird to use in this context. It's a photo of him standing in front of a clearly visible Flag of Japan, which just seems slightly out of place when it was the photo we're using to depict him as a candidate for President of the United States and he has no meaningful relationship to Japan. Vanilla Wizard 💙 01:06, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Option A, Option E or Option G: Because Option B is clearly one of the worst options. It is too dark and he's sideway-looking. Glasperlenspieler (talk) 04:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is honestly my biggest issue with it. Option E would be okay, if it wasn’t for the microphone in the way. Option A has too much squinting, and as someone already said, having the Japanese flag in the background is a little weird. I would be okay with option G though. Prcc27 (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Japanese flag is not recognizable as a Japanese flag in the cropped version though ... so of course it can be used. Glasperlenspieler (talk) 13:26, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The newly cropped version is a little better in that regard, but it's still recognizable to me. Granted, I might just be used to recognizing it because I first saw the uncropped version of that photo. I still find B & G to be preferable images anyways. B seems to be the most popular in this discussion with 4 !votes expressing support, but the last 3 !votes supported G so it's possible it can emerge as a new consensus option if more people express the opinion that it is preferable to B due to the lighting or camera angle etc. Vanilla Wizard 💙 21:49, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’m willing to change my !vote, option G works for me. Prcc27 (talk) 22:00, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guys it doesn't matter just pick one thing Veganoregano (talk) 00:00, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rollan Roberts and Corey Stapleton should be major candidates if Richard Ojeda was in the 2020 Dem primaries page.

Ojeda was only a state senator, yet he made it onto the major declared candidates on the 2020 dem primaries page. Stapleton and Roberts are both state senators, so why aren't they included? Futhurmore, why was Roberts taken off the minor candidates list?! Sure, maybe he shouldn't be on major candidates, but not even minor candidates?! He's still running, you know! YangGang2024 (talk) 19:08, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rollan Roberts, who is a state senator, isn't running for president. His son, Rollan Roberts II, who is not a state senator, is running. [5] As of this writing, Roberts II isn't considered notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, so he doesn't even qualify for the minor candidates list. As to why Ojeda was listed as a major candidate but Stapleton isn't, it's because there was a discussion at Talk:2024 United States presidential election/Archive 1 to tighten up the requirements to become a major candidate. Stapleton hasn't served in a high enough office to qualify as a major candidate automatically, so he would need to be included in at least 5 independent national polls or receive significant media coverage to qualify. To my knowledge, he has been included in zero polls so far. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:56, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ok thanks YangGang2024 (talk) 17:45, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately there are potentially hundreds of people who are minor candidates and they can't all be here Veganoregano (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I say we should have a vote on weather or not Perry Johnson and Corey Stapleton should be in the major candidates. Should I make a google form?

It seems to be very split, and a vote would finally settle it. YangGang2024 (talk) 19:12, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 19:19, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shameful YangGang2024 (talk) 20:53, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@YangGang2024: Based on this response, it appears that you do not understand the purpose and function of this encyclopedia. BD2412 T 18:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also shameful YangGang2024 (talk) 21:48, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've fought for stapleton but there's a bunch of people here with sticks up their ass referencing random rules Veganoregano (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yES, LET}S HAVE A VOTE, ON A GOOGLE FORM 8.243.213.122 (talk) 15:52, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We both do and don't "vote" when making decisions on Wikipedia, it's a little weird to explain. We call them "!votes", which is pronounced not-votes. What this means is that, on the one hand, the option that gets the most support is more often than not going to be the consensus option (as consensus is the fundamental method of decision-making on Wikipedia, but at the same time, Wikipedia is not a vote and the rationale or arguments provided for a certain option matter more than the shear number of users expressing support for an option. That is to say that users simply saying "support" or "oppose" followed by nothing doesn't really matter; you need to provide an explanation for your stance in order for your "vote" to count. One last thing, we don't use external websites like Google Forms, we do everything right here on the Wikipedia talk pages. If you want to hold "a vote" on a matter, consider starting a Request for Comment. Hope that cleared some things up for some of the newer editors. Vanilla Wizard 💙 20:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes very helpful. I would lean towards supporting Perry Johnson as he has more notable endorsements than Hutchinson and Elder. I would lean against supporting Corey Stapleton as I don't see him mentioned by the media as often, however I could change my mind if a convincing argument is put forward.

Bring on the !votes 2.103.101.154 (talk) 21:07, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Johnson yes, Corey Stapleton no. 2806:103E:D:1D8B:FD48:AA74:F100:DE38 (talk) 22:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like the current criteria we're going off of for listing a candidate as a "major candidate" is that a candidate must meet one or more of the following criteria: campaign has received substantial major media coverage; current or previous holder of significant elected office; have been included in at least five national polls. Does anyone have citations demonstrating that either of these two have met said criteria? Vanilla Wizard 💙 23:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Johnson technically meets the media criteria,see Perry Johnson discussion above. 2A00:23EE:14E0:8DD9:F680:1B88:5C45:4F0D (talk) 15:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've read the discussion above a few times and I see no consensus on whether or not he meets the substantial media coverage criteria and that he's one poll short on the polling criteria. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 21:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How can someone "technically" meet a subjective criterion like "has received substantial major media coverage"? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both because they haven't met any of the criteria. Stapleton is a good example as to why the "significant elected office" criterium is limited to President, VP, Governor, Senator or Representative. Only those people are, basically without exception, automatically treated as major candidates. Despite once holding statewide elected office, no one will give Stapleton the time of day. He is not even close to major. Johnson is on the cusp. He has been included is some polls, and he has received some national news coverage, but I believe it falls short. Substantial media coverage means to me that it is overwhelming enough that any reasonable person would have to conclude the person is being treated as a major candidate. It is a high burden. Vrivasfl (talk) 00:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I watched a Fox News video and at begging it showed pictures of 11 Republican candidates and Perry Johnson was on there 64.255.149.196 (talk) 03:54, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. He's a candidate. Being a major candidates involves a lot more than being included on a list of candidates. Vrivasfl (talk) 12:54, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stapleton seems like a no to me. As for Perry Johnson, at least one major media source (Politico) seems to be treating him as a major candidate. See https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/02/first-gop-debate-qualification-00100080/ , https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/republican-candidates-2024-gop-presidential-hopefuls-list/ , and https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/03/roast-and-ride-iowa-gop-primary-00100095 . I'm not sure if one source alone is enough to qualify as "substantial major media coverage," but it's something. Jacoby531 (talk) 00:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/07/rnc-debate-rules-small-donors-00100637

Politico called Perry a "longshot" Veganoregano (talk) 00:59, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They called Burgum and Suarez “longshots” I support Johnson as a major candidate MarblePolitics (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This feels like WP:DEADHORSE territory. It has already been discussed and determined, more than once, that neither are major candidates. David O. Johnson (talk) 02:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^Agreed. This does indeed feel like a case of WP:DEADHORSE. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 03:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And as for Perry Johnson absolutely not Veganoregano (talk) 00:58, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Johnson absolutely meets the criteria needed to be a major candidate, but I will staunchly oppose adding Stapleton to potential candidates. 2806:103E:D:E7E7:BC36:CC33:A43:F1FD (talk) 23:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Johnson absolutely meets the criteria needed to be a major candidate, but I will staunchly oppose adding Stapleton to potential candidates. 2806:103E:D:E7E7:BC36:CC33:A43:F1FD (talk) 23:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that both meet the criteria needed to be a major candidate, and again, many articeles are treating Perry Johnson as a major candidate. In fact, some of the other candidates have mentioned Perry Johnson along side other candidates names and have attacked him, the only reason they would do that is because they consider him a serious aka major candidate. 2806:103E:D:E7E7:BC36:CC33:A43:F1FD (talk) 23:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone point to even one reliable source which explicitly calls either of them a "major" candidate? Ann Teak (talk) 23:18, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've got a reliable source that explicitly calls Perry Johnson not a major candidate. This article from FiveThirtyEight.com says (at note 1): "One name you might not recognize in the table below is Perry Johnson. He’s a businessman running a quixotic presidential campaign who, decent fundraising aside, doesn’t qualify as a major candidate by our definition." --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think Perry Johnson is a major candidate, he has been included in at least 5 polls, and has had substantial media coverage. It could be argued that he has never held elected office before, but then again neither has Larry Elder, Vivek Ramaswamy or even Donald Trump back in 2016. 8.243.213.122 (talk) 15:17, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, I am looking for independent reliable sources, not opinions. Ann Teak (talk) 16:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Johnson has only two national polls listed at Opinion polling for the 2024 Republican Party presidential primaries. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:55, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what its worth, Big Village just dropped a poll that included Johnson. Going by FiveThirtyEight, he has five national polls. I think he squeaks in now. Vrivasfl (talk) 17:51, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yep! 8.243.213.122 (talk) 20:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which offices get bolded?

Looking at all the political party primary pages, going back to 1912. Which offices of the candidates should be bolded? The incumbent offices only? Or both the most recently held offices & incumbent offices? GoodDay (talk) 02:23, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer to bold the first-listed (i.e. most recently held) office or occupation, whether or not the person is an incumbent. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:58, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- This is about the presidential race, the only one who should be bolded is Biden, as he is the incumbent (and this isn't a Biden thing, the incumbent should always be the only one bolded no matter who it is). Everyone else is coming for Biden's job. Bolding them would make them appear as equals to the president, which they aren't. There's only one "big chair", and right now Biden has it, and the rest are looking to knock him out of it. Vjmlhds (talk) 14:08, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  I disagree with you. On all the other primary pages, we bolded every candidate’s most recent experience. If we go with your suggestion, the next presidential election with no incumbent will have no job experiences bolded. I think the bolding is helpfully, especially when there is a long laundry list of 3 occupations per candidate. It makes the most recent position stand out. Prcc27 (talk) 16:44, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Also, this is the page for the Republican primary, where Biden isn't even one of the candidates. But I agree with Prcc27, and even on the 2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries page I would want to bold the most recent experience for Biden's opponents. Nobody is going to be confused and think that Biden isn't the incumbent. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:11, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate Color Shades

Currently all candidates are different shades that vastly rade on shade, with ome having a 40-50 shade while others use the 70–80% shade, I feel this leads to the candidate's page feeling like a disorganized mess, with very few colors complimenting/balancing the others out. Thus, I'd like to open a discussion to change all candidates colors (barring trump) to a uniform shading. 2603:8080:4D01:6516:69B3:3DE9:E498:9735 (talk) 21:37, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You would be best off continuing the discussion which is still on this page at #Candidate colors/gradients. That way, your comments will be much closer on this page to where the colors are being illustrated. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:41, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I made all candidate colors same shade WONKAKlD (talk) 12:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rolland Roberts II

Why isn’t Rolland Roberts II in other declared candidates list when he raised over $1,000,000 64.255.149.196 (talk) 04:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As has been explained elsewhere on this talk page, he is not considered notable. A million isn't very much for a presidential campaign anyway. --Pokelova (talk) 04:12, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jeb Bush in Potential Candidates?

Should Jeb be in Potential I don’t think he declined yet and if he did we should put him in declined to be candidate’s WONKAKlD (talk) 12:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What sources have been identified speculating about him as being a candidate? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 13:22, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am sure we can find some WONKAKlD (talk) 13:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No 70.252.19.143 (talk) 06:59, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Glenn Youngkins 2024 color

Glenn Youngkin (should he run)

Glenn Youngkin = (should he run)
Hex code	Percentage
`#f6f9e0`	<30%
`#eef3c1`	30–40%
`#d3dd7c`	40–50%
`#b9c837`	50–60%
`#a0b200`	60–70%
`#8c9c00`	70–80%
`#717d00`	80–90%
`#555e00`	>90%

WONKAKlD (talk) 13:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That'd be 4 candidates sharing the color green, that might get a bit confusing. I recommend referencing 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries for an example of how to color-code candidates when the field gets too crowded.

Right now we have:

- Red (darkish, slightly maroonish): DeSantis

- Red (not quite pink not quite red): Rogers of Bolton should they run

- Orange (slightly dark and desaturated): Haley

- Yellow (a rather ugly shade of it, too dark and desaturated): Ramaswamy

- Green (regular): Christie

- Green (somewhat lime): Pence

- Green (slightly teal): Scott

- Green (a very slightly olive lime): Youngkin should he run and this color be used

- Blue (lighter): Elder

- Blue (navy): Trump

- Purple (bright, with a small hint of magenta): Hutchinson

- Peach (not that far off from the rogers/bolton color proposal): Burgum

- Brown: Suarez

These current colors have very poor contrast in my opinion. We could improve readability by using more basic colors and intermediate colors, and by keeping in mind accessibility guidelines for colorblind readers. We should consider using bolder colors instead of shades of green that only somewhat lean towards being teal (e.g. just use teal), etc. Adding yet another green color (this time one that'd be quite hard to tell apart from Pence's) is not ideal.

I think we should have a discussion about potentially replacing almost all of these colors with better ones. It really seems like these hues were picked randomly without much thought going into how well they'd work with the rest of them.

Vanilla Wizard 💙 20:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate Colors and Rules

Candidate colors have gone back and forth and we need to define DEFINITIVELY the colors for each candidate. It was mentioned that the colors should be the same shade but this make Ramaswamy and Suarez look very similar and Burgum and DeSantis look Very Similar. Try looking at both the colors side by side before choicing a color for a candidate. There also NEEDS to be rules for Major/Minor Candidates that EVERYONE can agree on to end the back and forth about Perry Johnson for example MarblePolitics (talk) 14:01, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I now see what you mean I think we need to talk to Matthew McMullin about the color situation and for the Major/Minor candidates situation we need to get everyone to agree that Perry is not a major candidate WONKAKlD (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also Even Matthew McMullin said he thinks we should use 70-80% I think people who redo edits like this just like to make edits WONKAKlD (talk) 17:04, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed new color palette to put this issue to rest

There's been way too many threads suggesting new candidates and new colors for those candidates and acknowledging how we've been going back and forth for a while now.

In the above section I criticized the current colors for lack of contrast, ugly hues, and lack of accessibility for colorblind readers. But complaining won't really solve the problem, so I took the time to look up some colorblind accessible palettes and tried to make one that's both visually pleasing and easy to distinguish.

So here is my suggestion:

Red: DeSantis

Orange: Haley

Yellow: Ramaswamy

Green: Christie

Lime: Pence

Teal: Scott

Light Blue: Elder

Navy Blue: Trump

Indigo: Youngkin (Should he run)

Magenta: Hutchinson

Peach: Burgum

Brown: Suarez

Grey: Possible Future Candidate 1

Pink: Possible Future Candidate 2

Any thoughts? Support/Oppose? I think it's an improvement from the old/current colors (see above for comparison)

Vanilla Wizard 💙 20:55, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed! MarblePolitics (talk) 01:56, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Potential Candidates

This section is going to have to go or the criteria be modified at some point. The current criteria is two sources in the past 6 months discussing them running. But launch season is wrapping up. 6 months is a long time when talking about a year long process. In 6 months new people wouldn't even get on the ballots in significant states. It would be absurd if at the end of the year we're still entertaining the possibility of governors starting campaigns, referencing sources that clearly meant the possibility of them launching by now. No sitting official has ever started a campaign that late in modern presidential elections. Not to mention, the sources in this section are very flimsy and some of these governors have signaled themselves they aren't interested. There is always going to be "speculation" over just about about any high-profile figure. This criteria should at least be strengthened. Veganoregano (talk) 23:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deval Patrick and Michael Bloomberg didn't announce until November last time around. I don't think there's any harm in having the potential candidate section, though I think it should be less prominent. I suggested removing the photos. Vrivasfl (talk) 10:51, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

they werent sitting any office Veganoregano (talk) 21:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New colors for candidates

Some candidate colors are WAY to similar to each other so I decided to propose some new colors

Francis X Suarez
Hex code	Percentage
`#ebf7e6`	<30%
`#d6efce`	30–40%
`#a4d695`	40–50%
`#74bd5d`	50–60%
`#47a52b`	60–70%
`#218d00`	70–80%
`#1a7000`	80–90%
`#135300`	>90%

Doug Burgum
Hex code	Percentage
`#ecfafa`	<30%
`#daf5f4`	30–40%
`#ace1df`	40–50%
`#80cfcd`	50–60%
`#52beba`	60–70%
`#1cada8`	70–80%
`#168985`	80–90%
`#0f6563`	>90%

WONKAKlD (talk) 23:54, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone fix this I don’t know how to WONKAKlD (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Burgum color just looks like Elder and Scott and Suarez looks like Pence. MarblePolitics (talk) 01:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Table format is now fixed. --Spiffy sperry (talk) 02:12, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have too many green colored candidates as-is. If we were to use the green color you used for Youngkin, that'd make it even more difficult to tell all the candidates apart, and the suggestion to change Suarez and Burgum to colors we're already using would even further exacerbate readability and accessibility issues. We can't have every candidate be green. Vanilla Wizard 💙 05:46, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can tell from Burgum , Elder and Scott but with Francis you have a good point but what color do you guys think I should change Francis too? (Also thanks spiffy sperry) WONKAKlD (talk) 11:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe like Lilac? MarblePolitics (talk) 14:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Significance of Trump's federal indictment

At this point, I think it is fair to say that the federal indictment of Donald Trump has become a galvanizing flashpoint of the Republican primary campaign. In addition to the event itself dominating international headlines, there is substantial reporting on the responses of other campaigns, with these responses ranging across an entire spectrum from Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson hammering Trump on it to Vivek Ramaswamy pledging to pardon Trump, to attempts to strike various middle ground poses in between. The event has also appears to have reshaped the polls, with Trump pulling further ahead against all primary candidates. In short, this appears to be shaping up to be the defining issues of the contest to this point. I think it would be reasonable to have a section in each candidate's campaign article describing the coverage of their specific response (or non-response) to the event. BD2412 T 06:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Laffey in Declared Major candidates

Do you think Steve Laffey should be in Major candidates? WONKAKlD (talk) 11:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, he does not meet the criteria MarblePolitics (talk) 12:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And just as a reminded to everyone, the criteria are: (1) current or former major office holder (Prez, VP, governor, senator or U.S. representatives; mayors not included); (2) inclusion in five national polls (Laffey has been included in zero); and substantial media coverage (anyone is welcome to make the argument that Laffey met this criterium, but this is well-trodden ground, and every previous discussion has concluded he falls well short of meeting this high burden). Vrivasfl (talk) 12:52, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ballot access deadlines

The article currently says, "At least 17 states have filing deadlines for presidential candidates seeking the nomination of their party in order to appear on the state's ballots. ... If a candidate files in a state without a deadline, but too close to that state's primary, that candidate may not appear on the ballot." This seems to be somewhat confused. Unless it's a caucus state that doesn't even use a ballot, doesn't every state have a filing deadline to appear on the ballot? The states need sufficient time to print the ballots. (And, in the consideration of some states, setting a relatively early deadline may limit the ability of "outsider" candidates to get on the ballot.) But with delegates for the presidential nomination at stake, I can't imagine that a state would go without a filing deadline. How would that work?

"State Division of Elections, may I help you?"

"Yes, I'm calling from the John Doe presidential campaign. Can you tell me the rules to be listed on the Republican primary ballot?"

"Sure. The primary is on March 4, and you will need to submit petitions signed by 1,000 voters who are registered as Republicans in this state."

"Okay. When do we need to submit the petition signatures by?"

"Oh, we don't have a deadline. Just make sure it's not too close to our primary or your candidate might not be listed on the ballot."

"But will we qualify if we submit 6 weeks before the primary? 8 weeks before the primary? Or what?"

"Like I said, we don't have a deadline ...."

This situation doesn't seem plausible. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The presidential primary/caucus calendar for 2024 is still in flux and a lot can still happen. Many states have not set their dates yet and therefore have not issued filing deadlines. Ballotpedia tracks filing deadlines here: https://ballotpedia.org/Deadline_to_run_for_president,_2024 The state with the first filing deadline is Nevada, where Republicans and Democrats must file by 16th October to be on their presidential primary ballots for the February elections. Glasperlenspieler (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you mean, so I'll revise the paragraph to have it make more sense. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:14, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Johnson just got 1% in a poll- has he been in any others? Because I want to know how close he is to the five needed to be a major candidate.

yep YangGang2024 (talk) 21:49, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I counted 3 polls that Johnson was in. I think that as soon as he reaches 5 polls, if he ever does we should consider him a major candidate MarblePolitics (talk) 23:00, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Johnson appears to have 5 different national polls from 3 different pollsters on 538 as of today. His polling average is less than 1%, but he appears to have been in 5 national polls. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 23:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki page on opinion polling only has three polls I believe, MarblePolitics (talk) 00:53, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, than why isn't he on major candidates?! YangGang2024 (talk) 04:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 957: / Line 957: @@
 :Johnson appears to have [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/national/ 5] different national polls from 3 different pollsters on [[FiveThirtyEight|538]] as of today. His polling average is less than 1%, but he appears to have been in 5 national polls. [[User:TulsaPoliticsFan|TulsaPoliticsFan]] ([[User talk:TulsaPoliticsFan|talk]]) 23:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 ::Wiki page on opinion polling only has three polls I believe, [[User:MarblePolitics|MarblePolitics]] ([[User talk:MarblePolitics|talk]]) 00:53, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
+::Well, than why isn't he on major candidates?! [[User:YangGang2024|YangGang2024]] ([[User talk:YangGang2024|talk]]) 04:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)