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Citing Discogs

Hello. I am using Discogs as a partial source for my discography. I know Discogs is not considered reliable but it does host pictures of the record discs I am researching. Since I am using information from the physical discs themselves, should I cite the discs instead of Discogs? Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 18:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Please do not cite Discogs, per WP:RSDISCOGS. Please find another source. You may be able to find assistance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies. Cullen328 (talk) 18:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I provided an answer that is related to this on your previous post under "Citing a record." In a nutshell: I believe that if a record exists, it is "self documenting" (a separate source does not need to be cited to verify its existence). Others welcome to weigh in here, though, if my understanding is wrong. Tony 1212 (talk) 20:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Also note, even if Discogs is not acceptable as a secondary source, you can link to material there (within reasonable limits e.g. not too many items!) via an "External Links" section if you believe it provides information a reader would find of value that is not available elsewhere. Tony 1212 (talk) 20:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans Cullen328 Tony 1212 Discogs is excellent for one thing imo, and that's for finding real names and aliases.

I update IMDB daily, and on the rare occasions I update a soundtrack (once I've added each individual to the music section first, mainly to get new names on IMDB, so they can be linked in the soundtrack section), songwriters and artists nearly always use their real names for songwriter credits in films and TV shows.

There's at least 3-5 big name music company websites I've stumbled across in the past, when searching to see whether a songwriter/s and the artist/s were the same people, however they're mainly for big name artists.

However Discogs is perfect for finding out the real names or aliases of smaller artists, which you can then use to find better sources elsewhere. Danstarr69 (talk) 12:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No, it REALLY isn't. "The real names or aliases of smaller artists" is square in the middle of WP:BLP territory, and you absolutely shouldn't cite Discogs, a mostly unreliable site, for that information. If you want to use it for your own edification, or to chase down better sources, that's one thing, but basically never cite Discogs in Wikipedia for biographical information. --Jayron32 16:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Jayron32 clearly you have trouble reading. Danstarr69 (talk) 20:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes I obviously do. Hi, we haven't met. I'm Jayron32, and I'm a total asshole. Sorry about that. Carry on. --Jayron32 11:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Convention/style for city gov'ts in the infobox

In the info box for New York City, under the heading of government there's just the type of government, along with the mayor and the name of the governing body. For San Francisco, there is a list of supervisors, as well as the state legislators. Is there any convention regarding this? Should all cities have larger representatives? And what about for smaller towns, should they have the city manager and the mayor as the two such as in San Mateo, California? Artwhitemaster (talk) 07:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Artwhitemaster! The place to find this information would be the template page for the city infobox, {{Infobox settlement}}. There will be documentation there that should explain what best practices are. If the documentation is lacking or unclear, then you can start a discussion on the template talk page (it's a widely used template, so you're fairly likely to be able to get a discussion going). Hope that helps, and feel free to ask if you run into any difficulties! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 15:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Almost all cities in the United States are part of larger counties. San Francisco is unique in that it is both a city and a county with the same borders, so it is appropriate to list the members of the county board of supervisors there. New York is unique because it consists of five counties which overlap with its five boroughs. For example, Kings County is geographically the same as Brooklyn. Cullen328 (talk) 17:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

As for city managers in places like San Mateo, Artwhitemaster, cities in in California can either be organized with a "strong mayor" form of government, where being mayor is a a full time job with significant powers, or a "weak mayor" form of government, where the role is largely ceremonial, and the day-to-day power is in the hands of a professional city manager. In the second case, listing the city manager in the infobox seems appropriate to me. Cullen328 (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Just to further elaborate, cities in the U.S. are a very varied and messy lot, and you're likely to find that what makes sense for one city, or for some subset of all cities, isn't applicable to others. There is no universal standard, and thus the infoboxes for cities may, by necessity, end up looking very different given the very different way that cities are organized across the U.S. (and even moreso around the world). --Jayron32 12:44, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Duplicate articles

Shingebiss and Shingebis seem to refer to the same myth. My understanding is that duplicate articles should be merged. However:

a) Shingebis has multiple problems

b) I know nothing about this myth (I was just looking it up and found the two articles)

I'm mainly a reader and very new to editing. What would be the best course of action here?

Thanks in advance! Mogtek (talk) 16:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mogtek! My suggestion would be to copy from Shingebis to Shingebiss any useful information (along with its references) not already there, and then make Shingebis a redirect to Shingebiss.

I am being lazy in assuming that 'Shingebiss' is the 'better' (more commonly used or more authentic), or at least equally good, spelling. If 'Shingebis' is actually preferable, the opposite though more laborious transfer of information could be done, or one could perform a Page move juggle Others may have better suggestions, though. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 19:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mogtek Hi, I merged Shingebiss into Shingebis. Regards Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:41, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Can someone take a look at this

this looks inappropriate Cohere Technologies ? 2607:FB91:34F:8A13:AC39:8391:6763:803 (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. What is inappropriate about it? 331dot (talk) 17:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The article seems to me to just about demonstrate notability, and is not too promotional. It's very thin, though, and could use a lot more meat on its bones, and perhaps more balance from adding some less-than-entirely-positive content.

Perhaps more non-controversial details like address, number of employees, etc. can be gleaned out of the inevitable puffery on its website, https://www.cohere-tech.com/, and added, though as a non-independent source this of course cannot contribute to its notability. More Reliable sources entirely independent of the subject (and its press releases) might also yield further facts from a more disinterested viewpoint. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 22:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Candidate for draftifying, perhaps? It's interesting that the article was written by a new account who seems to know how to write articles. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, at least they're not a single purpose account. Perhaps (like me) they've been editing for quite a while, and only recently decided to create an account. (I've been a regular for around 20 years, but have never created an account, though I might decide to do so some time in the future.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 04:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

We could slap some tags on it, though...notability seems to be given, but, as has been mentioned, more independent, reliable sources would do some good. Lectonar (talk) 10:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding links to an article

Trying to add the fossil finds time part to the page 'Rutiotomodon', which I have found seems to require a citation, but one that cannot be easily accessed (visible as a number). How can I make it invisible? I am basing my change off of the page 'Trilophosauridae', but with edits to things such as time and citation. Mangox88 (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mangox88, could you explain a little further (with direct links if possible)? I don't fully follow what you're trying to do. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I am trying to edit the timeline bar on Rutiotomodon, but it appeared on comparison with other pages that a citation was needed. I tried putting in a citation in the style of trilophosauridae, but it appeared visibly, which is different to Trilophosaurus. Does the fossil range need a citation? Mangox88 (talk) 05:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mangox88, ah, okay, I understand a little better, I think. You're trying to avoid the ugliness of having the citation display on a separate line in the infobox. Citations are very important for verifiability, so I wouldn't make it invisible. However, if you move the citation to the body where the same info about its temporal range should be mentioned, you then won't need it in the lead. Hope that helps! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 05:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Mangox88 (talk) 04:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Is "This Day In Metal" allowed as a source?

I'm fixing up a certain partial block request about a tour date that happened and one source that seems convincing to me but I don't know if it's convincing to others is this. I would like to know if this source is allowed. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Thomas and welcome to the Teahouse. The place to ask is WP:RSN - first search the archives for that page to see if it has previously been discussed, and if not, post your question there. I observe that it has a staff of named writers, which is a good sign, but it needs further investigation. ColinFine (talk) 19:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

ColinFine, I've asked Thomas to begin here at Teahouse to learn to assess sources, as the folks here are experienced and generally patient at helping users understand the basics. SKDB's response below is what I was hoping he'd get here: no, This Day In Metal doesn't look like it has editorial oversight, so see if you can find something better. This may be an iterative exercise. Valereee (talk) 12:26, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Well I'll be honest, we don't have to add something right away at times, maybe I'll look for more sources. Side note, I have been looking at so many pages that needed something removed and so far I got one that I found. If you're curious why I havent been doing requests lately it's because I was looking for things to have removed and working on that Pittsburgh event list. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Thomasthedarkenguine, you could ask at WP:RSN for a more definitive answer. But on brief investigation, the staff writers have only their first names, which is basically pseudonymity, so that's not great. The site has no about page that I can find, and the parent site's about page, here, doesn't say much of anything about its editorial standards. So my inclination were I a writer would be to try to find something better, but to use it if there's nothing better, but only for basic noncontroversial details. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It's nothing controversial, I'm just wanting to have a show added on The Spicy Meatball Tour. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Dr. William Longshaw

Dr. William Longshaw was born in Manchester, England April 26, 1836. I have copies of originals like the the Census of 1841 Manchester, England. Willliam was 5 years old when he travelled to the United States. I do have a copy of the census that I did upload to wikipedia. Toshiye6 (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. What is it that you are referring to? 331dot (talk) 19:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think he refers to his edits to William Longshaw Jr. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No original research may be a relevant read. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It seems that both his birth date and place of birth are in dispute, according to the note in the infobox. Census records alone are not convincing since it is commonplace for two people to share the same name. Cullen328 (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I have proof of his birth place. It's a 1841 census in Manchester England. How do I upload this document? Toshiye6 (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

To reiterate what Cullen328 says above, how do you know it's the same William Longshore? 'William' is a very common name (not in the social sense, of course!); Longshaw is not unusual, and there must be multiple "William Longshaws"s from that era and milieu. The article's references do show that there are contradictory claims about his date and place of birth (unfortunately, there are also multiple "Manchester"s), but you have no proof (so far demonstrated) of a connection between the person in your census record and the subject of the article, it's just one possibility of many. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.15} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

How do you know that it is not a different person named William Longshaw? There is no need to upload a census report, as it is of no value on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 20:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It is Father Is William senior. Mother is Margaret and William junior. This is the Manchester England census 1841. This is from Ancestory .com. Also the ,

Communication and Outreach Division

Naval History and Heritage Command

Have the same facts as me. I have his acceptance letter from the entrance to West Point. (202) 433-7880 142.114.202.157 (talk) 21:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The correspondence of the parental names certainly lends weight to your suppositions, but it is not conclusive proof, and the date and place discrepancies with the published references are unexplained. (My conjecture is that maybe he was born before his parents' wedding, and his date and place of birth were obfusticated in the US records to conceal this, at the time, shameful fact, but my imagining this is of no use whatever). Nontheless, Wikipedia only accepts what published sources say, even when primary documents (such as census entries — see WP:Primary, secondary and tertiary sources) suggest that they are in error (see WP:Verifiability, not truth). Note also that Wikipedia disallows sources with user-contributed information as unreliable (see WP:Reliable sources): this includes Ancestry.com (and of course, Wikipedia itself). A line has to be drawn somewhere, and that's where it is.

A way out of this dilemma might be to more explicitly detail all the contradictory sources and their conflicting information (perhaps in the article's existing Note a.) so that the readers can do their own weighing up, but we can't just decide which one we prefer (even if we could agreed) and suppress the rest.

You and Longshaw, the declared relative who is possessed of all these primary documents (and perhaps some secondary ones, with which we can work) need to discuss these matters further with the dissenting editors on the article's Talk page, which is the preferred venue rather than here, and reach a concensus on a solution. Splitting the discussion over two or more venues is not helping, since we are having to read both to see all the declared evidence. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 23:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well I do have all the corect files. Wikipedia is know for incorrect information. Ancestory is reliable I have all the files. We agree to disagree! I have birthdates dting back to the 1700's. Dr. William and me share the great,great,great,great grandfather. So Wikipedia is not a reliable source! I'll just have to accept that some of the information is wrong on wikipedia. I know what is true facts! Lorraine Longshaw Toshiye6 (talk) 15:41, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

So Wikipedia is not a reliable source!
@Toshiye6: Even Wikipedia doesn't consider itself to be one. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:43, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's what you need to do. Write a historical article (not an encyclopedia article) that concisely, lucidly and persuasively makes your point. Of course, this article must satisfy academic standards. Find a historical journal that is reputable -- is not a mere vanity or predatory enterprise, and is peer-reviewed (by academic historians, not monomaniacs or fringey people) -- and specializes in this area. Submit it to the journal. If it is conditionally accepted, rewrite it and resubmit it as required. Wait for its publication. After its publication, on Talk:William Longshaw Jr., point to the publication, and invite an unrelated editor to consider what it says, describing yourself as its author and thus disqualified from writing up the matter in the Wikipedia article. -- Hoary (talk) 22:09, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

English Variation

Hi, I'm editing Project Zomboid and I was wondering what english variation I should use

The article talks about a game set in the USA, but the development team is British and Canadian

Thanks NotAnInsurgent (talk) 02:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@NotAnInsurgent: Since it is an existing article, use the variant already in place. RudolfRed (talk) 03:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

NotAnInsurgent, it's about an "upcoming" game, but one whose "latest stable release is Build 41". I am confused. -- Hoary (talk) 04:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Understandable.

Project Zomboid is technically in beta, it's been in beta since it's release around a decade ago. NotAnInsurgent (talk) 04:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Mention of beta status would be a help. -- Hoary (talk) 04:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Good thinking, I'll update it when i have the time. Love the talk page btw NotAnInsurgent (talk) 04:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

NotAnInsurgent, the pattern currently used isn't (or the patterns currently used aren't) obvious to me. That being so, what I'd do in your situation is suggest on the talk page the use of OED spelling. People with more appetite than I have for searching for "ardour", "gaol", "jail", "defense", "pretense", "realise" and the like would be welcome to do so, and/or to argue against me. And if nobody did, I'd go ahead and prescribe and use "Oxford" (OED) spelling. -- Hoary (talk) 07:26, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree, It would make sense to use Oxford, as it's closest to both British and Canadian English. Thank you for your help. NotAnInsurgent (talk) 08:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Doreen Virtue

Former new age author from California who converted to fundamentalist Christianity–can someone please check if she meets SIGCOV/GNG?

If not notable for a standalone article, she can get a sourced mention on New Age#Christian perspectives. 118.149.73.154 (talk) 10:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP – not without sources, she doesn't, and preferably multiple secondary and reliable ones at that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:21, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The only maybe WP:N helpful thing I found was [1]. But she is on Rationalwiki and Fandom:[2][3], and has been published in CT:[4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

However, I have hits on JSTOR and ProQuest, there may be sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:13, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Article has been deleted three times before see here [5]. Theroadislong (talk) 11:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, a challenge! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Edited draft, Need re-review still pending from more than 2 months

Need re-review for the draft. I'm confused weather the content is sufficient or need any other sources. Can someone help me out of this. Sandy2205 (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Sandy2205. It is not clear how Tanneeru meets the strict WP:NPEOPLE criteria. Only people who meet the criteria set out in that links can have a Wikipedia article at this time. Qcne (talk) 12:42, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Sandy2205,

I am not a professional reviewer, but I am happy to give a couple words:

1. The last source [6] is from Youtube. Please do not use Youtube as a source (see WP:YOUTUBE).
2. The last sentence Nageswara Rao worked as Jaggayyapeta Division Private Schools Association President from 1997 to 2008 is unsourced.

You had external links in the body of your articles, but I saw you removed them. This is great.

Please see other volunteers' words for the issue of notability.

Cheers, -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 12:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sandy2205: Looking upon your contribution record, it seems that the draft has been the very first thing you work on since you created your account. I would suggest that new users like you should edit existent articles first before creating an article, so that they would know the policies and conventions of Wikipedia better. Cheers, -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Pre-Colombian project

Hello. I mainly edit on the French Wikipedia where I participate in the Pre-Colombian America Project (that is America the continent obviously). On the French Wiki there is only this one project for all Pre-Colombian history. So I searched here and Discovered there was an Inca projet. However this project was inactive. I really only do articles about the Inca, so the Mesoamerica project doesn’t really help. Instead I searched for a Pre-Colombian America project and found nothing.

So now I’m here in order to ask if there is any (actif) project concerning Inca/Pre-colombian Andean history Reman Empire (talk) 13:39, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Reman Empire! Any of the projects listed at Talk:Inca Empire are a possibility; WP:NATIVE might be one. But in general, most projects on English Wikipedia these days are not very active; it's just not how most editors organize. Best wishes with all your work! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 14:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Reman Empire Adding to Sdkb has said, if you do find a relevant WikiProject - even a currently inactive one - take some time to find and understand the Article Assessment Tables. These show all the articles which have been assigned to that Project. Then look at the column headings to see what level of importance they are, then to the row headers to see what quality assessment they've been given. High importance, 'stub' or 'start' articles are the best ones to view to see if you can improve them for the greatest return on you time. Click the number in the relevant cell to see a list of those articles.

If you read and coe to understand WP:ASSESSMENT, you may even find that some articles have since been enhanced, yet their quality assessment has not been upgraded, and you could fix that. WP:RATER is a helpful tool for that. These are useful tasks that a lone editor can work on to improve, even if others feel the project is no longer that active. That could well change, of course! Nick Moyes (talk) 14:13, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Sten Philipson

I am Sten Philipson. On the wikipedia page with presentation of my person there is a message: This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. What kind of 'citation for verifications' is needed here? There are valid citations on the page already. Best regards Sten Stenskonto (talk) 14:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Stenskonto:  Courtesy link: Sten Philipson Hi! Wikipedia:Reliable sources describes what we're looking for. For yourself as an academic, the ideal source would be something like a profile in a reputable mainstream newspaper that talks about your life story, research, etc. Reviews of your books in peer-reviewed academic journals are also helpful. I would suggest that you avoid editing the article yourself because of the conflict of interest you have, but you're welcome to give us links to sources that we could use to improve it. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 14:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

To add to what @Sdkb has said, @Stenskonto- currently the only source on the article is one that verifies that you're a Swedish ethicist- everything else in the article in unsourced! We therefore have no way of knowing if the listed date of birth, graduation, thesis, publications, and various works are true or not. Wikipedia:Verifiability is a key principal on Wikipedia but as we have millions of articles all written by volunteers, a great many of them are sadly of poor quality.

If you have some published, secondary sources that are from reliable places and are independent from you that backs up all the statements in the article that would be useful. Qcne (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and sources in Swedish are fine. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 15:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Stenskonto Even the first external link is now giving a "404" error. For some basic information, Wikipedia does allow primary sources (see WP:ABOUTSELF), so if you have personal webpages at the institutions you have been associated with, please supply the links. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:22, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

For example, the archive of that page at the Wayback Machine could be turned into a valid citation for non-controversial details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

block quoted stuff

i have seen block quoted content that is italicized and sometimes it is not. which is the better way according to the WP MOS? Iljhgtn (talk) 16:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn Normally not italicized unless quoting a foreign language. See {{blockquote}} and MOS:ITALQUOTE for more details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

so if it is normal english blockquotes, not italics. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:36, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Correct, @Iljhgtn. There's only one small exception in this section, which deals with italics being used to mark a particular usage as a term of art, but obviously this applies to a very short selection within a passage, not the whole thing. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:42, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

i was just asking about the use of italics or not for a block quote. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

i appreciate your response too though Iljhgtn (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I know, @Iljhgtn. The MOS bit I linked also applies to blockquotes, same as any other quote. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

ok Iljhgtn (talk) 18:39, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Where to request draft review?

Hi, I submitted Draft:Cornitos for review. I checked the relevant Wikiproject pages, but was not sure where to ask for help (review request queues don't seem to have activity for 3 years). Please help understand the process. Sabih omar 16:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC) Sabih omar 16:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Sabih, and welcome to the Teahouse. What kind of help are you looking for? You have submitted your review, and in time a reviewer will get to it, but there is no way of telling how long that will take.

If there are specific matters you would like help on, you could ask here, or at WP:AFCHD. ColinFine (talk) 17:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sabih omar You only submitted the Draft for review yesterday and currently there is a large backlog of reviews, so it is likely you will have to wait some time. Meanwhile you can continue to improve the draft. The main issue is that companies need to meet the relevant notability guidelines. The citations you have used which are based on interviews don't do that: you need more sources of the type described here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:28, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Rock Hill Mo. Police Dept

How can I incorrect an article without sources except for me. All news about myself as Police Chief in Archives apparently and to old to fine, the article needs to be corrected. Thank you, Terry Good retired Police Chief of Rock Hill Mo. "1997-2004 Hired in 1972. Ginger133 (talk) 17:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ginger133, welcome to the Teahouse. Unfortunately, if you are the only source for the information, there is almost nothing which can be done. If you have an official website and you post the information there, some of it may be usable, but only if it meets the criteria laid out at WP:ABOUTSELF - basically, nothing controversial, nothing about third parties, and only in small amounts. The other option is to convince a journalist or researcher to publish something which contains the correct information - we could then cite that piece.

Since you have a conflict of interest, please do not add such information yourself. Make an edit request on the talk page of whichever article you want to add the information to. - presumably Talk:Rock Hill, Missouri. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The section Rock_Hill,_Missouri#Police_and_fire seems excessively long for a town with under 5000 inhabitants. Maproom (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your response, I think the reason for the long article Rock Hill is in the middle St. Louis city and County, very busy City but dang beats the heck out of me why Iwas left out worked there 35 years. Ginger133 (talk) 19:23, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Citing a URL Source

I have reviewed WP text on citing a URL. My particular problem is that I have sources from Proquest. As you may know this is not a free service. One must be logged in from an institution with an account. The URL varies a bit with the account. Logged in from New York Univ. (NYU) my link is (in one case): http://ezalumni.library.nyu.edu:2048/login?url=https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/ professor-nominated-novel/docview/440313129/se-2?accountid=33843 I am told that the Proquest document ID is 440313129. Should I just cite the DB provider and document ID rather than giving the entire link that I have used?Oldsilenus (talk) 19:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Oldsilenus! You can use Template:ProQuest. So like this: <ref>{{cite journal |blah=blahblahblah |id={{ProQuest|440313129}}</ref>. Let us know if that gives you any difficulties! In general, for services like that, you always want to find the stable URL if one exists, and to use something that allows you to input the ID number rather than a full URL. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:23, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much! In, I guess, my too hurried review of the templates I didm't notice one for Proquest. Unfortunately, for this BLP JSTOR which always givs a stable URL has not been very UsefulOldsilenus (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Deleting Notices On My User Page

I, of course get notices sent to my user page. Some of these are quite old and I would like to delete them. I have looked and see no way to do this. Is an edditor (who is not an admistrator) able to do this?Oldsilenus (talk) 19:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You may simply edit your user talk page to remove the notices, just as you would edit any other article or page. Be aware that(especially for a recent message) that removal is considered an acknowledgement that it was read. 331dot (talk) 19:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry If I phrased things inorrectly. I did not mean notices posted directly to my page. I meant the noties posted in the menu at the top right of each page. These are shown in the "Inbox" symbol. The menu contines "talk sandbox menu preferences ..." I have 7 messages, some are 3 years old and are of no consequece at this point.Oldsilenus (talk) 22:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Oldsilenus: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you're referring to , there is no way to permanently delete them. If the badge displaying the number of unread notifications is what's bothering you, there should be a Mark all as read you can click in the header of the dropdown menu. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Input on BLP Quality Reliable Sources for confirming that an exhibition, award, or event occurred.

Hi! I edit living artist and designers pages and have questions about referencing that an exhibition or event occurred, that an artwork was in a certain museum or collection, or that an award was granted. I would appreciate other editors opinions on if I (and other editors who are doing the same practice) are referencing correctly.

Once it has been established that the article itself has reliable sources, and I want to establish or add to an exhibition or collection list, can a museum website (like MoMA NY), their collection catalog, or press release be a reference to document that the show occurred when a 3rd party independent reliable source is not available?

For example on these pages:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morehshin_Allahyari#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Beaumont#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behnaz_Farahi#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Karle#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Kent#Solo_exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joris_Laarman#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Opie#Exhibitions
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Zucker#Selected_Art_Shows

I'm looking at: WP:REPUTABLE: "Proper sourcing always depends on context; common sense and editorial judgment are an indispensable part of the process.", WP:CONTEXTMATTERS: "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content.... and Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in the Wikipedia article" & WP:RS & WP:BLP

What do you think?

-ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 19:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey. I would say that primary sources such as those are adequate for establishing that a particular event or exhibition occurred, but if the only sources for the event are primary then I would question whether the event should even be mentioned in the article. ColinFine (talk) 08:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Reach Plc Digital Online Brands

Normally when I add a reference from Reach plc digital online brands, I add the name of the newspaper it has come from, which is usually listed at the start of an article next to the writers name, rather than the name of the online "Live" site.

However recently I've noticed the names of the newspapers don't seem to be listed in the articles online anymore, unless it's just on certain "Live" sites.

Should I waste my time searching for the name of the newspaper every time I add a "Live" reference?

Or should I just add the "Live" website names from now on? Danstarr69 (talk) 20:24, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69, I think you'd probably be alright with either, so long as you stay consistent within any given article. If the newspapers still have individual staff, then including their name might be preferable, with Reach plc in the |publisher= field. But that only really comes into play if you're trying to get an article to GA/FA status. Short of that, anything that reasonably facilitates verifiability is fine. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 03:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

NOT A SOCKPUPPET

My accounts have Been Blocked when I am Not A Sockpuppet

WP:SOCK for The Policy. 84.64.168.121 (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

There will be a message on your user talk page about how to appeal the block. You need to follow that process. RudolfRed (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Submit my page to public: Unicode/Versions

There must be a page for Unicode/Versions on Wikipedia, because there's one in Wikibooks and not one in Wikipedia. AshtonTameirao (talk) 20:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

See Unicode#Versions.   Maproom (talk) 21:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

But that's not it, but my article needs to be published to public so everyone can edit my page. AshtonTameirao (talk) 22:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Cartoon disruption by ultras

I have been contributing to the essay Wikipedia:Why is BFDI not allowed on Wikipedia? and I honestly feel like I want to say this (This is based on a few statements I made on its talk page). If you don't know what that essay is about, basically a lot of people who are fans of an animated YouTube cartoon that does not meet GNG caused massive disruption over some years (but especially recently) over trying to shove an article in about their beloved show.

I feel as if a lot of immature kids are on Wikipedia who obsess over children's/preschool TV shows no one else cares about (preschool shows generally don't get more notable–especially in Wikipedia terms–than shows made for other audiences), to the point it can become disruptive and lead to blocks and sockpuppetry. User:Robert McClenon wrote an essay calling these people "ultras". I don't think they can understand the cues here that what they want to happen (i.e. a preschool show and its non-notable characters or settings being promoted by having Wikipedia articles) won't happen (due to a lack of notability and SIGCOV, which in turn could be because they're not relevant in today's world), and sadly they might ignore any warnings and continue until they get blocked.

This honestly makes me concerned, but I do have to feel sorry for those kids who need to understand that Wikipedia isn't just for their cartoons. Furthermore, these kids could be neurodivergent (I am autistic myself), so I can emphasize with them. They need to realize cartoons obsessions that result in things like this are not healthy. There are so many better things they could spend time on rather than just shoving shows into Wikipedia that just don't simply belong here. As CGP Grey said: "Your job is to work on you, and to make yourself an independent person in the world." NOT to spend time on stupid fancruft. 118.149.72.239 (talk) 21:43, 24 August 2023 (UTC) Addendum: some examples are listed on WP:LTA 118.149.80.254 (talk) 04:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Bang on. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 22:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Wow, I learned something today. Thank you, IP user. -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 23:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The most current submission by ultras is Draft:Simon Edward Minter (Miniminter). Miniminter and Simon Minter are both currently redirects to the group, the Sidemen, and previous individual articles on Miniminter have been deleted as not notable. A common tactic by ultras is to change the spelling of the title. With regard to Dream Island, we have had Battle For Dream Island and Battle for Dream Island, for instance.

As I explain in the essay, ultras are sometimes mistaken for paid editors because of their stubbornness, but, when an editor says that they are not a paid editor, but a fan, I usually believe them. That does not mean that they may ignore notability, reliable sources, and neutral point of view. They often do ignore those policies, which is why they are often thought to be paid editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Indeed, I mentioned that a lot of them are likely obsessive fans, which is why I am concerned. They could also be neurodivergent; I am autistic myself which is why I am concerned. Indeed they could have done other, more positive things in real life or contribute to more notable topics here, but let's stick to how to deal properly with these people on Wikipedia. 118.149.80.254 (talk) 04:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

As I've found out as a major contributor on IMDB, a lot of mainstream children's shows from the UK aren't notable enough for a Wikipedia article, as there's not enough information about them.

I'm mainly talking about shows from CITV (which will cease to exist next week after 40 years) on ITV the most watched channel for the majority of British TV history, although most people clearly have short memories.

Why do they have short memories? Partly because ITV is rubbish at promoting it's old shows, and likes to keep its records private, unless you're in the media yourself, then you can get access.

You can find out the basics most of the time, like the fact the show existed, when it was broadcast, a brief plot description, how many episodes it possibly had, and some of the cast and crew members.

However more detailed descriptions, most of the cast and crew, and the episodes themselves are nowhere to be found online at least.

I don't normally do children's shows, however I added/updated a few earlier this year when I randomly found out an actress from my city (who I had never heard of before), who mainly does theatre shows in the West End of London today, was one of the child stars in those shows. Danstarr69 (talk) 01:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69: Indeed, I have seen some sockpuppetry go on with a focus on obscure British preschool TV series that I highly doubt are notable and hence deserve to be on Wikipedia, and which I haven't even heard of before (I don't live in the U.K. but do know some British children's television). I personally don't find it healthy. In my opinion, these kids should move on to more relevant media rather than stay stagnant in life with these obsessions. 118.149.80.254 (talk) 04:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm mainly talking about children's drama from ITV (which always beat BBC One in the ratings), rather than shows for toddlers, but still the fact remains.

Some of them were massive in the 80s and 90s, and are where a lot of the biggest names in British TV today started their careers.

However information about some of them is scarce.

The BBC have the BBC Programme Index (made from Radio Times TV and radio listings) containing every programme they've ever made, including all the spelling mistakes.

ITV, Channel 4, and Channel 5 however, don't have any public archives containing details about their old shows, and there's no TVTimes TV guide archive anymore. ITV used to have a partial programme index of around 8000 shows available to the public until around 5 years ago, but then they made it private, just like their entire online archive, which is based in the city next to mine.

There's many more places I can look like BFI Collections among other places (a lot of which I've added to my user page), but the majority contain just a brief summary of the simple stuff.

With ITV especially, which used to be made up of at least 17 regional franchises, which have had 100s of different names over the last 68 years, it's even harder to find out information for certain shows, especially when they were made by the region, specifically for the region, and weren't shown nationally at a later date.

For example, there's a Pop Idol/X Factor type show from the year 2000 which I randomly stumbled across in some old adverts, made by ITV's Yorkshire franchise, for Yorkshire, which I doubt was shown in any of the other ITV regions, which probably explains why there's no information about it online.

In case you're confused about ITV, it was basically like PBS, except it's funded by adverts, rather than donations.

I also recently stumbled across another 1990s children's drama, which I probably watched but don't remember, as I was 10 or 11 at the time, containing a former child actor as the star, whose former actress sister works as a teacher just a couple of miles from me (which I also found out by accident, as she's got married sometime in the last 10 years, so has a new surname). 3 of it's 9 episodes exist online, from old VHS tapes, but there doesn't seem to be much more information about it online. Danstarr69 (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Folks, please remember that WP:NOTFORUM applies to the Teahouse as well. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Isn't it literally a forum? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69: @Robert McClenon: Some examples of these cartoon ultras are the Bucharest Wild Kratts and horror film vandal, HarveyTeenager, Caidin-Johnson, and the Pinkalicious vandal. 118.148.103.96 (talk) 01:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

citing a diagram

What is the best practice for citing a diagram? It is quite simple and can be represented in ASCII like this:

others      ↔            for-the-sake-of-which          ↔        others

(possibility of Dasein’s Being)

↑     ↑

↑     ↑                         towards-which                     ↑     ↑

\      \                                (work)                            /      /

\                                       ↑  ↑                                   /

\                 equipment ↔  equipment              /

(ready-to-hand entities)

I could also, however, create an image file from the book in which it appears. Or maybe some other alternative is preferable?

Thank you for your assistance!

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 21:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I could also, however, create an image file from the book in which it appears. Please don't violate copyright. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 22:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

That's what I'm trying to avoid! Richard Polt made the diagram, and I want him to get all the credit. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:45, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I see. You want to insert the diagram into the article? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 22:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. It's a helpful representation of the relationships among concepts that are easy to lose track of in discursive presentation. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

...and thus we come into the domain of copyright and fair use, not my area of expertise. Also, depending on how close a representation of the diagram your ASCII version above is, it may or may not be a problem. I'll leave the mucky copyright business to more experienced editors. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 22:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your attention to my query! Absent other advice, I will use my ACSII representation and cite it with the sfn template in the same way I would with plain text. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 23:18, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello PatrickJWelsh,

• A fact or concept cannot be copyrighted.
• An expression like a diagram can be copyrighted, depending on the complexity (this varies between countries).
• If you translate a copyrighted work into another medium, that's a derivative work under US copyright law.
• When editing a Wikipedia article, you must release your edit under the Creative Commons license at the bottom of the page.
• You cannot release a derivative work under a new license without the permission of the original creator.

Regards, Rjjiii (talk) 00:41, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You can use {{Cite book}} to cite your source. But I think you mean "copy" instead of "cite" like a reference? RudolfRed (talk) 22:33, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I would consider this a quotation. But it's visual and I wanted to check in about best-practice. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:47, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

In case it helps, the diagram appears on p.61 of this book: https://books.google.com/books/about/Heidegger.html?id=-CXZN12gHioC.

Also, I should add that I have no connection at all to the author and no particular bias towards his interpretation of Heidegger. I'm just drafting out what I hope will be an improvement on a rather shoddy page about a major philosophical figure (however deeply, deeply flawed he was!). Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 23:11, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@PatrickJWelsh Just a note to point out that the ASCII diagram doesn't display correctly on my phone. I suspect the screen is not wide enough. You could get assistance with creating an acceptable drawing at the WP:Graphics lab, provided the copyright hurdles are cleared of course. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:16, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

So if you go the ASCII route, use a screen-shot to turn it into a .png or similar, and upload it to Commons. Easier to insert, resize and replace if needed. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 13:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Where to report self promotion

I haven’t really done much with the moderation side of Wikipedia. However, I was reading a (relatively niche) article and noticed that a non notable book was cited as a pop culture example that apparently had a direct Amazon link to it in the article. I read some of the “drama boards” occasionally to pass the time and have learned that this kind of self promotion is pretty common. I took a look at the account that added it, and sure enough, the account that added this book to the page had the same initials in the username as the author of the book, and that they had more edits that were just the same thing. However, I’m not sure if there’s a special board to report it to or if just the regular incidents board is fine. I vaguely remember there being a place to report COI editing, but I can’t find it, so maybe stuff just blurred together in my head. Waverfangirl (talk) 05:19, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Waverfangirl: What article were you reading? – dudhhr ^talk_contribs^she_her 05:24, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Wandjina This one. A depiction of this spirit was added to a game I like and I wanted to learn more about it/Aboriginal people’s thoughts on depictions of them. Waverfangirl (talk) 05:25, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@waverfangirl: remove it. it's useless. as for the editor, they haven't edited since august 2022, so reporting is unnecessary. ltbdl (talk) 05:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

forget it: i've reverted their edits.

fur future reference, the noticeboard for reporting conflict of interest editing is here.

and as for your userpage, requests for changing your username is here. ltbdl (talk) 05:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Waverfangirl (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Help for article

Hello, I come here seeking assistance. I had recently made corrections to the page of Brothers of Italy based on the links provided on the page. I have read the rules of Wikipedia and my changes were based on the rules. I understand that all information must be based on links.

However an editor called Vacant0 has undone them all and called them vandalism. I do not know why they undid my change but what I did was not vandalism. It upsets me that my changes can simply be dismissed like this.

I don't know what to do now since Vacant0 never presented an argument for me to contest or accept so I'm asking for help here. I wish to have my changes passed so that it isn't a edit war. Braxmate (talk) 06:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Braxmate, and welcome to the Teahouse.

The right thing to do is to open a discussion on the Talk page Talk:Brothers of Italy, and ping Vacant0 there (as I have just done here).

Please see BRD for how Wikipedia editing is supposed to work - you made a bold edit, Vacant0 reverted you, and now you discuss it. It must be upsetting to see your edits described as vandalism (which has a specific meaning on Wikipedia), but you need to ask Vacant0 why they thought that. ColinFine (talk) 08:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

How will I do BRD if one side doesn't make argument? Braxmate (talk) 09:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Your edits were not based on the rules and you did not correct anything, you have actually violated the consensus for the infobox that was reached on the talk page. If you want to change anything related to the infobox, you will need to start a discussion on the talk page and provide evidence that support your claims. Vacant0 (talk) 08:42, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes they are based on the rules, the rules say all information must be completely supported by links and no modifications to what the links say.

Wikipedia:Verifiability Wikipedia:No original research

The unchanged article has information which are modified, the links say "first far right" but the article says "first right wing", all given academic links say "neo-fascist" but article says "some academics call it neo-fascist" and some links are used to describe what is "radical right" which don't even mention Brothers of Italy.

And why are you calling my corrections vandalism and what consensus are you talking about? There is nothing on the talk page. Braxmate (talk) 09:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

All previous discussions are archived. See Talk:Brothers of Italy/Archives/2023/January, Talk:Brothers of Italy/Archives/2022/September, and Talk:Brothers_of_Italy/Archives/2022/February#Infoboxes_and_political_spectrum. Vacant0 (talk) 10:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

February 2022 archive is not understandable. September 2022 archive says weak consensus because no one gave good links. And in January 2023 archive you didn't even give "neo-fascist" as an option, and no one gave any link, you all just made different personal opinions.

What kind of consensus is this? My changes are supported by the good given links.

What do you want me to do? How am I supposed to make the corrections? You won't make an argument, you won't answer on talk page but you will undo and you have still not answered why are you calling my corrections vandalism? You are just giving me bureaucracy instead of discussion. Braxmate (talk) 10:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Please have this discussion on the talk page - not at the Teahouse. If discussion goes nowhere, your other options are described here. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:01, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

And please remember that Wikipedia is a collaborative project: your goal in any discussion should be "How can we reach consensus?", not "How can I make them admit that I am right?" On the other hand, Vacant0, it seems clear that Braxmate is editing in good faith, so I suggest you withdraw the accusation of vandalism. If somebody is editing in good faith they are not doing vandalism. ColinFine (talk) 15:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Order of templates on the top of the article

Is there any convention to those templates on top of the article -- like what order they should go into? I am wondering if I should put the translation notice or the more sources on top. Artwhitemaster (talk) 06:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Artwhitemaster. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout#Order of article elements mentions some things but not that detail. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:18, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Cleaning up articles that looks like an advertisement

I stumbled upon an article for Armbian, which doesn't conform with the Wiki standards, but I don't pretty much know how or where do I continue with cleaning up the article or at least, make it look like an actual article than an advertisement for it. Thanks in advance. Signed, Lucss21a | Talk | Contribs 06:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

My two cents: that article is garbage. It cites nothing but the product's website. I see no reason for the article to exist. Maybe some subject-matter expert will notice it in an AFD and disagree, but it looks hopeless as-is. Pecopteris (talk) 06:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I have added a notability tag to it, but a cursory search didn't turn up anything like a good reliable source, so imho this should go to WP:AFD to be evaluated. It isn't an obvious speedy-deletion candidate, though. Lectonar (talk) 06:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

It's badly written. It doesn't make it clear what Armbian is. I suspect that the word "image" in its first sentence doesn't mean what most readers are likely to think. Deleting the current version would leave room for someone to write a comprehensible article on the subject, if they can establish notability.   Maproom (talk) 07:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I think almost everyone will agree that this article should go to AFD, so I've sent it there. Pecopteris (talk) 07:31, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Wiki politics

Hello. I mainly edit on the French wiki on articles concerning the Inca, so I usually don’t get in to Wiki polotics. I did cause quite a mess lately because of my, I do admit somewhat irrational, excitement about a complaint about foundation expenditures. Still I’m not getting the big picture. I think I understood the general organization, but I’d like to know if there are any cercles and such. To know some deeper politics. So here I am asking for answers Reman Empire (talk) 08:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if you're familiar with the WP:SIGNPOST, but there may be articles there that you find interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Reman Empire Specifically, WP:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-08-15/News and notes. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

And there's more in the archives. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I want to expand an article but don't know how!

I have been working on an article but so far couldn't have been able to add other topics to the main article Zahirdaud24 (talk) 10:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Zahirdaud24 WP:TUTORIAL may be of help to you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You recently moved Haji Abdullah Shah to mainspace. To continue work on that article, you should edit it in the normal way, as explained in the tutorial. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

thanks Zahirdaud24 (talk) 10:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Whenever I Google search the article, the search results come up with talkpage instead of the actual article.why am I facing this issue Zahirdaud24 (talk) 10:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I suspect it's due to how wikipedia's search engine indexing works: see WP:NOINDEX for details but basically Wikipedia asks search engines not to index articles which are less than 90 days old and have not been patrolled. Once one of those conditions are met, google should start to show the article in its results. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Help to switch off

I can't get off Wikipedia, I had a particularly shitty interaction with a group of editors yesterday and to get over that have been editing Woodcote Park, and trying to reach out to friendly users. But I need to switch off, haven't done any proper work yet (which means I'll have to make that up) and have other better things to do. Really, I'd like someone to say I'm appreciated for what I do and then maybe I can just forget the negative stuff. I know this is perhaps an unusual request, given i'm not a new user and am axtually a host here. All the best Polyamorph (talk) 12:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Polyamorph Welcome here! Firstly, I want to let you know that you're "appreciated for what you do". Being a Reviewer, Page mover, etc isn't an easy job and you're loved for committing yourself here :) Secondly, You did a great job at Woodcote Park seeing your recent edits there.

Lastly, you just can't switch off because that's funny to me.

Regards! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Polyamorph Anyone like you with >25,000 edits is clearly making a great contribution: congratulations! If by "switch off" you mean you would like to be blocked for a period, then I think that admins like Nick Moyes are happy to help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Polyamorph A quick look at your talk page shows that you provide a great help to other users - most recently helping someone out with citations - especially when you consider that not every editor you’ve supported will leave a message there to thank you (I’d wager that it’d be a minority). I don’t think I’ve seen you before today, but if the thanks you’ve been given - both on your talk page and here - is anywhere near reflective of the work you do here (which I have no reason to believe it isn’t), then you seem like the kind of editor this project could do with more of. And I’m certain that you’re silently appreciated by many other editors for the help you provide, and for the improvements you bring to Wikipedia.

If you feel you need to take a wikibreak, by all means go for it: it’d certainly be well-deserved.

All the best. A smart kitten (talk) 13:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Wow, thank you all so much. I felt embarrassed asking, and wasn't sure how well received it would be, but you guys are wonderful. Actually bought a tear to my eye. I'd also turn it around and tell you how much I appreciate your contributions here. I think maybe I will be taking a short break, you've really helped alleviate the negativity I was feeling. Thanks Polyamorph (talk) 13:44, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Polyamorph ❤️ Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Polyamorph I would be quite reluctant to give someone with your long and good-standing an editing block, as it might not look good should you ever feel you wanted to be considered for admin rights at an RfC. But there are other ways. See WP:WIKIBREAK and the wikibreak enforcer script at WP:BREAKENF. Sometimes one can feel burned out by spending so much time and emotional effort on Wikipedia. Getting time away, and making time for real friends and family is really important. But, yes, your efforts are certainly appreciated here. I guess you could also put the Wikipedia url on a blacklist on your own router - but that's not something I've ever tried. Nor can I recommend any specific browser extension, but one of these might be of interest if you use Chrome by default.

Best wishes, Nick Moyes (talk) 16:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Why was my new entry rejected?

hi there! I just submitted my first-ever new Wikipedia entry and it got declined. I carefully read the reasons for the decline and I guess I'm still puzzled. The subject of my article has been cited by many reliable secondary sources. Can you offer advice please? Thank you! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Chris_Molanphy MarcdePezenas (talk) 13:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Asked and answered at the Help Desk. @MarcdePezenas, please only ask in one place (Teahouse or Help Desk), not both. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I note that your draft only has two references, which I would not consider "many", and the first one falls under WP:ABOUTSELF, as it's produced by the subject, and thus not indication of notability – a core Wikipedia concept. Notability is a test to see whether a subject deserves its own article. Your draft was declined as not proving notability. Generally, subjects need significant coverage in multiple reliable sources, but there are exceptions. Would the declining reviewer, Theroadislong, like to comment? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I already commented at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk#August 25. Theroadislong (talk) 14:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Can I have a chat with a Wikipedia Editor

Hi, I would appreciate it if I can talk to an editor? I keep getting this Draft:Freeme Digital rejected and I am really curious to know why. 1. How can a child of this be approved and not the parent company? 2. How is the controversy page here not enough for notability? I mean this incident was and is still talked about in African music ecosystem till forever.

I really need answers.... Factscheq (talk) 13:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You can go to the user's talk page to chat with that user. Cwater1 (talk) 13:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Your draft was rejected, meaning it will not be considered further. Try moving on. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Factscheq: didn't you ask this at the AfC help desk recently? Your question there has been answered. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

how to avoid "Rv, not a forum" have to face being deleted 2 "Talk"´s comments ?

Hello, here is what has been reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Humus&oldid=prev&diff=1172168818

Maybe the ´half´ is forum-like to call from what ever, but I cannot recognize from what, that claim, that pronouncement.
If this is in consent with Wikpedia´s definition of forum and as unacceptable comment for "Talk", then this should be explained some-where, please, how to understand the difference those both.
So what, please, defines a clear to understand the difference of talk and forum ?
Thank You.
Visionhelp (talk) 15:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you looking for WP:NOTFORUM and maybe WP:TPG? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 15:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Visionhelp, the purpose of an article talk page is to discuss specific ways to improve the article, based on what specific reliable sources say. It is not for general, unfocused discussion of the topic. Cullen328 (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

My intention is to improve.
My expectation to Wikipedia is the claims of Wikipedia already with reliable sources.
The statement "humus, is essential a waste product with little food value" cannot find a reliable source anywhere, please.
Pointing to it in "Talk" is not forum, please.
The claim of forum as reason to delete that, to my understanding, this all is being put from foot to head.
This just simple reason (the claim forum) this way, to me not defined clearly, allows to do what wants to be done.
This I cannot take really serious.
Thanks the interesst.
Visionhelp (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Visionhelp: I'm having some difficulty understanding your comments. Are you using machine translation? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 19:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Visionhelp: The diff you linked to showed you commenting about the subject, not making any suggestions for improvements, and linking to a site that violates the WP:NOTHOWTO guideline. I can understand that the previous comment was also forum-like and am surprised that Plantsurfer failed to delete it, as it expressed a personal belief without citing anything. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Questionable draft article question

I've been around the Wikipedia block, but it's been a long time since I've been back to this side of the block. Re-learning to edit/review.

How are draft articles treated when the subject appears to be either sarcasm/humour or outright disrespect (can't assume PoV). Is the subject ignored until it comes up for review, or is there a process to suggest deletion? e.g. Draft:Translender (identity) CMacMillan (talk) 15:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I've tagged it for speedy deletion as a blatant hoax. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 15:38, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Birth dates

Hello. I am planning on making a draft and have some questions about birthdates. How do I know which date to put. I'm quite certain it's 1878 but I have two conflicting sources saying September 16 of that year and the other saying September 18. If I'm not sure do I just put 1878 and explain the discrepancy in the text below? If it helps, the September 18, 1878 date comes from the subjects own hand written for his WWI draft card. Thanks in advance! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 15:53, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans! See WP:BIRTHDATE. I'd personally just use the birth year or September 16/18 and make a footnote. Asparagusus (interaction) 15:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for helping sort this out. Have a good day! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

African American and not African-American

MOS shows that we should not use "African-American", instead we should use "African American".. what is the best way for me to search out this incorrectly hyphenated use and correct for it across Wikipedia? i have heard of some kind of wiki web browser??? Iljhgtn (talk) 16:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I think you're talking about WP:AutoWikiBrowser. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 18:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

maybe, would that help me to search the entire wikipeida for "african-american" instances so that I can work on correcting those to "african american"? Iljhgtn (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I have never used it myself, but making changes like that seems to be one of the main functions of AWB. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 20:44, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Citing Census and other Ancestry Record

Hello. I need to cite some census records and other things from Ancestry.com and I'm not quite sure how. Ancestry gives a source citation you could use but I'm just not sure how Wikipedia deals with it. Thanks in advance! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 17:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You probably shouldn't use Ancestry.com as a source, numerous discussions have determined that as a user-generated cite, any information in Ancestry.com should not be cited directly; in cases where Ancestry.com is being used as a host for documents such as census records, you would cite the census record as though you weren't usinG Ancestry, like if you were looking at a copy of the document in a library somewhere, you could just cite the original documents without reference to Ancestry at all. Furthermore, census records are of exceedingly small utility at Wikipedia, as noted in policy "Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses." I'm not sure what you're using census records for, but if you're trying to use them to show that a person lived at an address, or was a certain age, or had certain parentage or siblings, or whatnot, it's probably insufficient for Wikipedia to do so. You need a secondary source (as explained at WP:SECONDARY) that themselves published such information. --Jayron32 18:21, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Usurping an article without destroying history

Hi, I've been working on cleaning up the disambiguation and primary topics for the 3 people named Francois Morel. Before, the primary topic was the composer, even though pageview statistics are strongly in favor of the actor being the primary topic. I have added a disambiguation page, and moved the composer to Francois Morel (composer), but am unsure how to move Francois Morel (actor) to the automatically created redirect other than copy and pasting, which would destroy the history. Morel8910 (talk) 18:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Morel8910: WP:RMTR exists for this purpose. Well technically admins and people with page mover rights exist for this purpose, but if you don't know how else to flag one down, that's the page to make the request. Thank you for not copy-pasting. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 18:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I have page mover rights (I moved the composer). But I don't know how to move the actor to the main page since the redirect exists. I'm basically looking for technical help Morel8910 (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion, when I say page mover rights, I meant Wikipedia:Page mover, which is more rightly called 'extended page mover'. The page on extended movers mentions the 'delete-redirect' right, which is the thing you're lacking. You'll be wanting that first page I mentioned. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 19:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Morel8910 (talk) 19:12, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Morel8910: A page move like you propose would be controversial, to base a primary topic decision on page views. I have moved the disambiguation page over to the primary title instead. If you want to make one of the three articles on the disambiguation page the primary topic, see WP:RM to start a move discussion. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

period inside of quotes "" or not

should i put the period inside of the "quotation marks" or not at the end of a sentence? ex. john and jill walked up the hill, john said, "jill you are a dolt." or is it, "jill you are a dolt". Iljhgtn (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn Hello and welcome here. As much as I understand, In American English, periods and commas are typically placed inside quotation marks, like this "jill you are a dolt."

However, in British English, the placement of periods and commas depends on whether they are part of the quoted material. If they are, they are placed inside the quotation marks. If they are not, they are placed outside. For example: "jill you are a dolt".

Hope this helps! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

so ENGVAR applies then. i will need to leave these alone mostly so i dont have ENGVAR provlems Iljhgtn (talk) 19:05, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

per mos:lq, the answer depends on the quote, not the variety of english

so quoting an entire phrase like Karol claims that "Collecting the D-O-N-G letters was always the best part of DKC." would be correct and not even wrong

but if you want to quote a phrase until before it ends, like Karol's favorite part of DKC was "collecting the D-O-N-G letters". would be cool and good cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 19:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: In case you didn't see the previous reply. This isn't an ENGVAR thing. We have a guideline, MOS:LQ. If the quotation ends with punctuation, put the punctuation inside the quotation marks, otherwise put it outside. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist Thanks for the reply! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 04:30, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

visual editor

there are notices at the start of some articles that mention redirects and disambiguation pages etc. Check out, Daylight saving time for a good example of what I am talking about. i want to be able to make those from visual editor, source editor is not easy for me to use. how can i do this? Iljhgtn (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

its like ""DST" redirects here. For other uses, see DST (disambiguation)." is what im talking about Iljhgtn (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: That is from the {{Redirect}} template. I don't use VE, but my understanding is that one of there is a drop-down or menu option for placing templates. See Help:VisualEditor#Editing_templates RudolfRed (talk) 20:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

fix ping to @Iljhgtn: RudolfRed (talk) 20:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn Hello and welcome to the Teahouse! This is how you make hatnotes and such in Visual Editor: In the visual editor first type in two curly braces ({{) then type in and enter "for" in the search bar. A menu will then pop up which can allow you to change the template parameters to make it say certain things. Regards, #prodraxis ^connect 20:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft automatically became article?

I tried to create a draft for Stenogale and it became an article? Did not mean to do this, is there a way to move it back into draft space? Chainsawpunk (talk) 19:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I moved it to Draft:Stenogale. Ruslik_Zero 20:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Chainsawpunk: You blanked the article before it was moved to draft. I just unblanked it. Please proceed developing it. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:20, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Crezl

This is a draft article for a new Korean cross-over quartet called Crezl. There is very little information available on the group in English, which was the motivation for creating this wiki article using articles in Korean. Could I get advice on how to increase the possibility of review and approval for the article if sources are written in a foreign language? I have tried to follow the Forestella wiki article as reference, as they have many citations written in Korean. In previous q I have posted here, suggestion was to use translation citation, which I have done. Anything else? Echohk (talk) 20:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! As for the sources, whether they are in Korean or English it does not matter; they just have to describe the subject in detail and be reliable. However, please read the comments submitted in the draft as well. You cannot use Namuwiki as a source as it is unreliable and edited by ordinary people just like Wikipedia. #prodraxis ^connect 20:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Per previous guidance, I have removed all references and citations to Namuwiki... Echohk (talk) 21:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

@Echohk: I noticed references 16 and 17 are identical. Please don't duplicate references. Use named references instead to consolidate them together into a single citation, while still being able to cite it multipe times. See WP:NAMEDREF for guidance. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much, this was very helpful. Consolidated the citations, which helped clean up the reference list. Any other suggestion is greatly appreciated. Echohk (talk) 03:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Double entries, sort of...

There is a page on artist Monika Fleischmann which I am working on updating now. There is also a page on this artist at Monika Fleischmann and Wolfgang Strauss. What is the best way to handle this? Should they be merged, stay separate, etc? Thank you LWu22 (talk) 20:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC) LWu22 (talk) 20:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You might want to discuss this with contributors at the other article, it looks like there's been activity there quite recently. You can try posting on their user talk page to get their attention, in case they're not keeping an eye on the article talk page. In any case, some useful questions to consider include:

- do reliable sources show that each one is independently notable enough to have their own article?

- if the combined article is split into separate pages Monika Fleischmann and Wolfgang Strauss, how much overlapping content would there be in the separate articles?

- how much prose (not lists of works, exhibitions, awards or publications) can be written about Fleischmann without involving Strauss?

Hope that helps, —2406:3003:2077:1E60:B664:BB58:22E3:BD8D (talk) 03:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Hiatus

When a artist announces a temporary hiatus, how should that be reflected in their page? Should it remain 2000 - Present / or / 2000 - 2023 / or / 2000 - 2023 (Hiatus)? Ladybord (talk) 22:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Ladybord. If the source you have cited states that an artist has stopped being a creative artist, you can cite that source as saying that, at point X, they ceased being creative. 'Present' is not a useful term, as it depends on when one encounters it. Now? Or 30 years in the future?

I would suggest something like: "In 2000, artist X announced that they would stop working" [cite source]. Leave it to new sources to indicate if/when they resume activity. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification on this matter! Ladybord (talk) 03:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Qingling Taga

Can someone else please handle the clueless (?) new user turning the abovementioned into an outright advert; I've already made two reverts. (Possibly connected with earlier reverted edits by other user / ip, all insist on changing the make to Isuzu.)
Thanks in advance! 2406:3003:2077:1E60:B664:BB58:22E3:BD8D (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Done. Restored the most recent stable version and warned the user on the talk page; though I see that the user already has been warned. SpaceEconomist192 ✐ 03:44, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Remove attached accounts

Hi there! I was reviewing my global account information and noticed that I currently have 78 accounts linked to my global account. These accounts were created by simply accessing the corresponding project's website. I was wondering if it's possible to detach these accounts from my global account? I don't wish an Armenian or Vietnamese account. Many thanks. SpaceEconomist192 ✐ 03:30, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

@spaceeconomist192: this is currently not possible. ltbdl (talk) 05:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

@SpaceEconomist192: they're not accounts per se, more like local branch offices for your global account; in any case, most are likely to be just empty placeholders with no edit history. The system sets them up when it sees you access a different language version of Wikipedia, so that if you decide to do any editing, it has somewhere to log your edit history. Don't worry about them, they do no harm and cost you nothing. :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

To be perfectly clear, SpaceEconomist192, you only have one account. If you use your account on other Wikimedia projects, you may see an illusion that you have multiple accounts. But what you really have is a single account active on multiple Wikimedia projects. Cullen328 (talk) 06:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia source for Wikipedia?

Hi!

I was looking at the Group 9 elements and I noticed that barely anything was there. Then I looked at each of the elements and saw that a lot was written, so can I use the elements' article as info for another article? UB Blacephalon (talk) 03:53, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

@Blacephalon, unfortunately no, as per WP:CIRCULAR, Wikipedia articles can't be used as sources. You are welcome to add reliable references that is used from one article to another! Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 03:57, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Am I allowed to use other articles for info to put there? UB Blacephalon (talk) 03:59, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

For Wiki as a source, no. If you would like to copy text from one Wiki article and paste on another Wiki article, you can do that and follow directions at WP:PATT. Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 04:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

It appears i dont understand the directions on that. Could you explain it in simpler terms? UB Blacephalon (talk) 05:13, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

So, if you want to copy text from a Wiki article and paste it on a different Wiki article, then you need to provide attribution – which WP:PATT explains. Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia also states Wikipedia's licensing requires that attribution be given to all users involved in creating and altering the content of a page. This applies for copy-and-pasting text from one article to another, as stated above. Hope this helps! Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 05:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

So I just have to say that I copied it and this is where its from? UB Blacephalon (talk) 06:00, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Yep! For example, copied content from Oklahoma; see that page's history for attribution. Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 06:04, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Huh. Is there any way I have to say it? Formally of course. UB Blacephalon (talk) 06:21, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Blacephalon, this is an informal project with great flexibility. Simply state clearly and unambiguously in your edit summary where, specifically, you are copying the content from, and for what purpose. You are the only person who can state your intentions clearly. That is the purpose of edit summaries. Cullen328 (talk) 06:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Damodran Nair to Damodaran Nair

Per latest sources available on the internet, [7][8][9][10][11], I guess this should be moved? Jeraxmoira (talk) 06:48, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Aspect Ventures

Does anyone have time to merge this and delete the article. The one founder looks like she already has a substantial section on it.. the other needs a couple sentences.. Aspect Ventures 2607:FB91:8808:D6E6:AC39:D1F1:66E0:DB84 (talk) 07:40, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

edited article disappeared

I am trying to submit my first article 'Arne Johnson', nuclear physicist and spent yesterday 6 hours to totally rewrite the article. When switching to the talk page to get some feedback, apparently everything disappeared, only some sentences at the end, that should not be part stayed in the text. Are there ways to retrieve what has been lost? Do edited pages disappear when switching to the talk page? RamonWyss (talk) 09:01, 26 August 2023 (UTC)