Talk:Yevgeny Prigozhin

Kirill Ziminov

Since the page is protected, I cannot edit to correct the spelling of this name, currently written Kiril Ziminov. Please correct. Avemundi (talk) 14:51, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Gaping hole in biography

Reading this article there's clearly a question that goes unaddressed. One can't help but wonder how this petty thug turned businessman and caterer ended up forming a mercenary corps and leading it at the frontlines, a mercenary group now well-known for its efficacy. That's not something that just about any chef can do, in fact usually it takes some relevant military experience. Yet here we read his life story and without explanation we learn that this chef turned into a general of his own private army of convicts. How? 80.68.228.217 (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2023 (1)

We should remove the claim that "His father and stepfather were of Jewish descent", and his listing in the "Russian people of Jewish descent" category, as well as the reference to the Times of Israel article, whose source is a false confirmation (circular reporting) as I explained here Talk:Yevgeny_Prigozhin#Jewish_Ethnicity Ketchupsource (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Not done. Wiki follows what Reliable Sources state. See policy. HammerFilmFan (talk) 11:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy WP:NEWSORG actually states that circular sourcing is not a valid source and should be bewared of so the request still holds. "Some news organizations have used Wikipedia articles as a source for their work. Editors should therefore beware of circular sourcing." Ketchupsource (talk) 05:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Non sequitur. Read original reply. HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:40, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Are Ilya and and Yevgeny related?

Prigogine and Prigozhin - Perhaps handled better by a Russian scholar than me. Doug youvan (talk) 11:39, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2023

Edit proposal:

1. Edit position: Introduction section After this sentence: "Prigozhin agreed to move to Belarus and criminal charges against him for rebellion were dropped. Wagner mutineers would not be prosecuted if they agreed to either sign contracts with the Defense Ministry or move to Belarus.[20]"

2. Edit content: As of the 6th of July 2023, Prigozhins whereabouts are subject of speculation after Belarussian leader Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko, after having been asked by British CNN reporter Matthew Chance in a press conference, claimed that Prigozhin is still located in Russia, possibly St. Petersburg or even Moscow, but not Belarus.

3. Sources - CNN article and video: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/06/europe/wagner-chief-prigozhin-russia-intl/index.html - The Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/wagner-boss-yevgeny-prigozhin-russia-alexander-lukashenko-belarus

4. Additional request If it's possible to support the work of the Wikipedia community by adding neutral information and/or sources, especially on hard or controversial topics that could be subject to manipulation like this (edit-protected) article, I would really like to do so. Unfortunately, I am a bit new to the community (about half a year), so I don't know how to apply for this qualification, but I would be thankful if you could inform me about how to earn this qualification. I would be really happy if you could leave me a message on my profile or something like that. If you would need additional information about me or anything like that, I would be happy to oblige.

Up front: My language skills in English might be imperfect due to me being German, but I'm doing my best.

Thank you for reading! NeutralerNutzername (talk) 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Article quotes Alexander Lukashenko as saying that "as for Prigozhin, he's in St Petersburg. He is not on the territory of Belarus." Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 14:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Was his mom a nurse or dr?

Its says in two different things in two sections. In one that his mom was a nurse and in the other that hos mom was a doctor and educator. Which one is true ? 80.208.65.190 (talk) 19:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 July 2023

Shoudn't we add Prigozhin's feud with Igor Girkin and Ramzan Kadyrov DitorWiki (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 13:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

i am telling that you have to add a section

e.g -

Yevgeny Prigozhin's feud

With Igor Girkin

...

With Ramzan Kadyrov

... DitorWiki (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2023

I want to add the titles of Yevgeny Prigozhin in his Africa operations. On July 6, the FSB raided Prigozhin's residence and discovered wigs and many fake passports. All of this was revealed to the public. A few hours after this was released to public, Wagners telegram channel announced the titles and ranks of Prigozhin on African operations, hence describing why he uses the wigs. In PMC Wagner's message they said;

" On the eve of the public in the face of the TV program "60 minutes" of the TV channel "Russia 1" was excited at the sight of wigs found at Prigozhin during the searches.

Why would a person we already know need so many wigs, they asked.

Everything is outrageously simple: for trips abroad. And here are a few selfies of Prigozhin after the reincarnation. "

The titles and ranks are listed below.

1. Ministry of Defence officer in Sudan 2. Assistant Diplomat from Abu Dhabi 3. Senior Lieutenant from Benghazi 4. Colonel from Tripoli 5. Merchant from Syria 6. Field commander Mohammed.

There are many more things to add to this article such as pictures and more detailed descriptions. If these changes are added people can be more aware of the duty of Prigozhin in Africa. Utkutibet (talk) 11:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -Lemonaka‎ 02:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Death rumors

I’m hearing on social media that his plane crashed and he’s among the dead. Any reputable sources? [1]https://x.com/bnonews/status/1694395180365775245?s=46&t=w--g3vBTVqlOqfreZuTGdQ 2601:3CB:100:84C0:98E8:F503:9352:32FE (talk) 17:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His plane crashing seems to be more or less confirmed. However we do not yet know if he died or not. 10 people seem to have died according to tass (which to be fair isn’t a very reliable source) 188.150.162.83 (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

was just wondering about this myself. has Prigozhin died or not? It's on the news now too. Serafinowicz (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

according to RIA Novosti all 10 passengers died. If Prigozhin was on the plane it seems likely he died. 188.150.162.83 (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Now confirmed dead by the Kremlin. R3SPACE7 (talk) 04:43, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

He's dead, BBC confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-665997332A00:23C6:1403:B801:155C:6C9F:5F04:50CF (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

He was "believed to be" on the plane, no one knows for sure yet. 145.53.180.223 (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Telegram indicates that there were two planes and that the plane suspected to be carrying Prigozhin recently landed in Moscow on a flight from St. Petersburg 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Let's hope that he's alive - such a valuable and intresting person! It'd be a shame if this Wiki article ends today. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

please stay with the improvement of article. your personal opnion is not really important. @GreatLeader1945 ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 18:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Modern primat That's according to you. I'm sure that it's very important to the other Wikipedians. Cheers! GreatLeader1945 (talk) 18:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@GreatLeader1945 ""This page is not a forum for general discussion about Yevgeny Prigozhin."" this is in top of the talk page, come on...... ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 02:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023

This man is dead as stated by the bbc 86.28.172.52 (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (2)

He died https://news.sky.com/story/ten-killed-in-private-jet-crash-north-of-moscow-wagner-leader-yevgeny-prigozhin-on-passenger-list-12946006 144.51.12.131 (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

This should be added in it just happened Sunnyediting99 (talk) 17:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Dead

Killed in plane crash today according to Russian Civil Aviation Authority 2603:7000:9C00:6581:60E4:5994:9341:9F2D (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Logically does not make sense whatsoever, he was in Africa yesterday, in a wagner hotspot, do you have sources in RUSSIAN? Vatily.varistokovko (talk) 17:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Not quite. He released a video of himself in Africa yesterday. Doesn’t mean he was there yesterday. Volunteer Marek 17:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

• The BBC source used to cite his death says his plane was shot down by Russian air defense, not that it was just a crash. 331dot (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His second plane just landed in Moscow, its possible that Prigozhin is on that plane. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (3)

add to that he died in tver region/oblast which is north of moscow St1vaida (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

sky news have said that just wanna say St1vaida (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The article is being updated with the latest news about the crash. Giraffer ^{(talk·contribs)} 17:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Sourcing about death

According to the FT, it seems like Russian officials have reported that a plane crashed, and that Prigozhin's name was on the passenger list, but they have not confirmed whether Progozhin was on the flight. BBC News and Sky News also both say he was "believed" to have been on the flight, so there doesn't seem to be official confirmation of his death yet. Giraffer ^{(talk·contribs)} 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The BBC reports that social media claims that the plane was shot down. 331dot (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No sources have confirmed his death, only saying he was listed as a passenger on the plane and that there were no survivors. 331dot (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Any official confirmation/denial regarding Utkin also being on the plane? Volunteer Marek 17:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (4)

Death is not confirmed, remove until it is RomantiusAegypt (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

everyone there is no way to confirm his death, this is probably some PR move by Putin and Prigozin just like the fake wagner coup Akb0y47 (talk) 17:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: that's what reliable sources say. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No reliable source has confirmed his death, it is only "believed" that he was on the plane. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WSJ: Plane Carrying Wagner Owner Prigozhin Crashes in Russia, All Aboard Killed

FT: Yevgeny Prigozhin in fatal plane crash, Russian officials say K. Oblique 18:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Both the articles you provided require a subscription to read. Other news sites haven't confirmed his death yet. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Maksiwood 2: Have you tried internet archive? IT tends to let you get around paywalls. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 18:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

That’s not a reason to ignore them. Sometimes, we even cite books. In any case, the headlines alone are sufficient here. And there will always be news sources that don’t write about something. K. Oblique 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Reading the part of the WSJ article that you can see, it seems like they they had the "He was on the passanger list" thing and just ran with a clickbait headline to get people to pay. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I managed to get past the FT paywall using Internet Archive (Thaks @Blaze Wolf)

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230823172612/https://www.ft.com/content/812c9da3-80f2-4fe1-8fad-0b4441d1977a

"A plane said to be carrying notorious warlord Yevgeny Prigozhin, whose Wagner group launched a failed coup against president Vladimir Putin in June, has crashed on a flight from Moscow to St Petersburg, according to Russian officials.

All 10 people on the plane, including three crew members, died in the crash, Russia’s emergency ministry said, according to state newswire RIA Novosti.

Russian officials said a man with Prigozhin’s name was among the passengers, without elaborating further."

So they haven't confirmed it either. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I use internet archive if I wanna look at a new york times articles or something similar. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 18:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Religion

He seems to be of Jewish decent, but is not religious himself? Is it possible to add this to his page.

https://c2donghungtl.edu.vn/en/yevgeny-prigozhin-religion-is-he-christian-or-jewish-ethnicity-and-parents 2A02:A03F:8B2C:9200:ADB0:DA0E:B15B:4C57 (talk) 17:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Speculation of no use on Wikipedia. — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His Ancestry and racial background is absolutely relevant to his biography. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. 2804:388:4103:EAFD:1:0:C2CA:1F43 (talk) 18:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

We require reliable sources for any information like this. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

we have a photo of the plane

©Geni (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

What is your source of this? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The registration is mentioned at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/23/yevgeny-prigozhin-on-private-jet-that-crashed-near-moscow-russia-wagner among other places.©Geni (talk) 17:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Also a nice photo of the jet plunging to the ground Teenyplayspop (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

"The jet reportedly had the tail number RA-02795."

There is no official confirmation of this being the crashed plane, so it should be held off until either a lot of sources claim that number or an official source (Russian Aviation Authority, for example) claims it. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure any Russian government source should be considered reliable here. 331dot (talk) 18:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Any source is better than speculation. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'd agree with 331dot that the Russians aren't necessarily the best source. The BBC is currently trying to verify reports. This is their current article: [[2]] MetricPin (talk) 18:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Here’s the NYT, citing video and flight tracker: [3] K. Oblique 18:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add the place of his death

The plane crashed in Kuzhnekino apparently Deus vult fratres! (talk) 17:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hes not *yet* confirmed dead, and besides, there were not one but two planes. According to some informations, the one on which he was on board landed in Petersbug. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 18:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It landed in Moscow,it came from St Petersburg. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Genuinely interested, where did you find the info that there were two planes? Chaotic Enby (talk) 18:51, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The BBC has claimed that there was a second plane earlier:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66599774 Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Chaotic Enby (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Status

Is there a standard on WP for this kind of situation where someone's death is presumed but not confirmed beyond doubt? The only one I can think of is the disappeared status which was used during the Titan submersible incident but I'm not sure what is most appropriate here. U-dble (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Usually, we fight about it until everyone stops caring. K. Oblique 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

He is alive. Media hit job. Smartmarty123 (talk) 18:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Source? 331dot (talk) 18:38, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I just said it was a media hitjob and your asking for a source Smartmarty123 (talk) 18:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Source? Chaotic Enby (talk) 18:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Co co co cope about it Smartmarty123 (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay so, genuinely asking: which media were "on" the hitjob? How did you get the info? Is there anyone reporting the "other side"/claiming that Prigozhin is still alive? Chaotic Enby (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

In your defense you'd be mad to believe me. He's still heading to Leningrad or downed at Moscow. At the moment, the situation remains the same: there is still no confirmation by Wagner about the death of Prigozhin. Media have falsely claimed his plane crashed, and he promptly died. Planes don't just crash in the sky. Surfaced videos of the downed plane only show few corpse.

Two planes took off from Moscow both belonging to him aswell, the one that has crashed, and one that followed behind but returned due to the crash. Smartmarty123 (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

https://ibb.co/X7HgRW2 Oh? Was I right? Smartmarty123 (talk) 19:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't asking if you were right or wrong, I was asking for a source for your claim (which a mere picture is not, as it could have been taken days or weeks ago). Chaotic Enby (talk) 19:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

A reverse image search reveals that this image is older that 10 minutes. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I got hacked Smartmarty123 (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

If you were really hacked, I suggest looking at Wikipedia:Compromised accounts#After being compromised and m:Help:Compromised account to see what to do regarding your account's security. Chaotic Enby (talk) 20:41, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

"Media have falsely claimed his plane crashed, and he promptly died."

Not just the media, but the Russian Aviation Authority released a statement saying that he was on the passanger list of the crashed plane. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Being on a list ≠ being dead. — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

We're not talking about if he is dead or not. The argument is "Is this a media hitjob" or not. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:39, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Plus, The Grey Zone just posted that Prigozhin is dead. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The Grey Zone?

If you mean this then I wouldn't trust it. Smartmarty123 (talk) 19:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No, this: https://t.me/s/grey_zone Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I see. So has the Wagner channel, but the Wagner channel seems to bottomfeed from the Grey Zone which seem to be bottomfeeders theirself.

Oh well. We'll just have to wait for a real statement I guess. Smartmarty123 (talk) 19:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

That would be the best option. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 19:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, we can't put "Smartmarty123 says Prigozhin is alive and everyone else is lying". It has to be verifiable somewhere. 331dot (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother with obvious trolls if I were you, 331dot. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 19:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

• The Michael Medved Show (AM radio) said that there were reports that he could be using a body double. Didn't say who claimed that, though.

Something about this is in a June report at Hindustan Times. ☆ Bri (talk) 19:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Schrödinger's Prighozhik.

Really guys, just be patient and wait for more news. Synotia (moan) 19:56, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. Just a lot of smoke and mirrors and presumptions currently. kencf0618 (talk) 23:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keir Giles, a Russia expert with international affairs think-tank Chatham House, urged caution about reports of Prigozhin’s death. He said “multiple individuals have changed their name to Yevgeniy Prigozhin, as part of his efforts to obfuscate his travels. Let’s not be surprised if he pops up shortly in a new video from Africa,” Giles said. Associated Press. -- GreenC 20:07, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (5)

As a close official with the US Military, I can now confirm that he has died. 2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF (talk) 19:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by "As a close official with the US Military"

Are you in the military or are you close with someone in the military? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 20:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well I have taking an oath to never reveal how I get information but I can confirm he is dead 2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF (talk) 20:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

yes, and I can say I have close ties to the Russian Government, that doesn't make it any more true than you, does it? Editor 5426387 (talk) 00:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

We’re gonna need more proof than my dad works at Nintendo. Swyix (talk) 20:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Death at 1:30 P.M. EST 2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF (talk) 20:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

You gotta give a source or we can’t use it Swyix (talk) 20:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not a publisher of original research. You will have to get your story published by multiple major news sources before it lives up to WIkipedia's standards. Dieknon (talk) 20:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 21:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Confirmed dead

The main telegram channel for the wagnner group has confirmed that prigozhin is dead https://t.me/grey_zone/20178 TheHaloVeteran2 (talk) 20:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

...and directly accused Russian authorities of the act.

Still, we need to wait for reliable sources reporting on the death. BBC, CNN, etc., usually require a much higher threshold of evidence than social media. — kashmīrī ^TALK 20:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

As a close official with the US Military, I can now confirm that he has died. 2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF (talk) 20:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No you can’t confirm that as that’s not your job. We wait for credible media sources here at Wikipedia. Swyix (talk) 20:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I work with the military and our spies in Russia are confirming that one of the bodies is in fact his. 2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF (talk) 20:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, Rossaviatsya has apparently confirmed this.[4] — kashmīrī ^TALK 20:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No, they have just published the list of the people on board.

https://t.me/s/favt_ru Maksiwood 2 (talk) 20:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate your initiative, but one wonders how such classified info ends up within minutes on the desk of someone sitting in front of Wikipedia and having nothing else to do than sharing it with the world. I'd believe that such information is handled differently. — kashmīrī ^TALK 20:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

If you really worked with the military I doubt that you'd be talking about "your spies" openly like this. Chaotic Enby (talk) 20:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. Probably they'd say something like "Don't feed the trolls". 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:51, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Chaotic Enby 100% correct... maintaining some semblance of integrity here is just as important as 'getting the word out'... as someone who was in fact previously in the military, and has a son currently in a marine corps intelligence battalion, I would agree with your statement above wholeheartedly Toastt21 (talk) 00:12, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@2601:47:4300:B120:8C53:1F1C:8F80:8FDF Our "Spies" in Russia, I'm just now realising that if you are acturally working with the Military, you would never reveal this, and if you are a close official, where is your proof? Editor 5426387 (talk) 00:22, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

He's just trolling dude. R3SPACE7 (talk) 04:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

They already removed the "presumed dead" in the "died" section, but forgot to remove the "presumed dead" at the beginning of the article. Someone who can edit should do that 193.37.192.149 (talk) 23:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think some are so anxious to declare him dead for whatever reason they loose their head a bit. There is still uncertainty. The NYT says Russian authorities have not confirmed his death.[5] The Times further states "Conspiracy theories and misinformation flowed across the internet on Wednesday about the founder of the Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny V. Prigozhin" and that the Times was unable to verify any of it. -- GreenC 22:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

He is confirmed dead by every contact I have for every army which works with the Russian arm forces. Mathsquare (talk) 03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

According to CNN he is now confirmed dead. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/23/europe/russia-wagner-prigozhin-plane-crash-intl/index.html DrKilleMoff (talk) 08:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

No. That's just sloppy wording - a clickbait title - by CNN, which later clarifies that it has no more info than any other source: Among those on the plane were ... and ..., according to list of passengers shared by the Russian aviation agency. Boud (talk) 08:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC) "Clickbait headlines often add an element of dishonesty, using enticements that do not accurately reflect the content being delivered., per clickbait in Wikipedia. Boud (talk) 08:55, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

BBC now providing confirmation [6] OGBC1992 (talk) 10:53, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Update to the front page?

Certainly this should be updated to the front page as Prigozhin was a very notable person and the circumstances of his death add to it all the more: even his mutiny a couple of months ago was on the front page. --Carius (talk) 20:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

That is being worked on, but it hasn't been confirmed that he has died. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 20:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Carius, if you're interested, those discussions take place at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates. That particular discussion is currently at the top. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Passenger list vs on board

Both Novaya Gazeta and The Guardian interpret the Federal Air Transport Agency's statement(s) to mean that the agency is sure that Prigozhin was on board the plane. In contrast, most English sources interpret the agency's statement(s) to mean that he was officially on the passenger list - which only means that standard procedures of identity verification (whatever they are) were used, not that the agency has questioned the airport staff or monitoring cameras or used other identity verification beyond "regular" procedures. In many countries, IDs for domestic flights are usually not checked; having a valid ticket is enough.

The interpretations of the agency's text are not in themselves notable, so until there's confirmation one way or another, sticking to "officially on the passenger list" or the equivalent is the only verifiable information in the Wikipedia sense. I made a correction in the plane crash article to avoid over-interpretation of the agency's statement as described by Novaya Gazeta. Boud (talk) 00:03, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

All 10 bodies have been recovered from the site and the search operation has been completed, authorities said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/23/russia-moscow-private-jet-crash-wagner-prigozhin-live/ Synotia (moan) 07:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

it's according to this telegram channel, has not been officially confirmed. Synotia (moan) 07:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Per The Kyiv Independent, a good source, "Russian media" confirm that all 10 bodies were taken for examination but The warlord's death is yet to be confirmed by official sources, however. Boud (talk) 08:33, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Per Meduza, a good source, Prigozhin was almost certainly killed in the crash. But interpretations by media are only of temporary notability. People who study media might be interested. Boud (talk) 08:36, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

We had best stick to official reports, which are currently coming from... Russian organs. kencf0618 (talk) 10:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Trimming

Hello @Kashmiri:

I do not object to your recent trimming of the article. However, you're deleting 25 kbs of content that might be used in other articles such as Wagner Group or Wagner Group activities in Africa, etc...

Could you please consider moving rather than deleting? -- Jabbi (talk) 09:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

We had best stick to official reports, which are currently coming from... Russian organs. 2023 Tver plane crash already has a sufficient reactions section. kencf0618 (talk) 10:12, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Jabbi, thanks. I won't be immediately able to focus on editing the articles you linked due to time constraints, however editors of those articles are welcome to reuse the passages I removed, as they are preserved in the edit history. On a quick glance, these articles contain quite detailed sections about Wagner Group activities, so it would be surprising to me if Prigozhin's biography contained details that are missing there. However, as I wrote, unfortunately I won't be able to carry out a detailed comparison today. Cheers, — kashmīrī ^TALK 10:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not against trimming content about Wagner that doesn't involve Prigozhin, but I think you've trimmed the lead too much. For example, Prigozhin saying the reasons for the invasion were lies is lead-worthy. It was much more serious than just criticizing the Defense Ministry, and the sources highlight that. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 12:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Direct quotes from article subject don't normally belong in the lead section, especially when they have no relation with the subject's biography (Greek: βιογραφία, lit. 'description of life'). I know that some Western editors get soooo excited when someone in Russia/China/etc gets critical of the government policy, and they want to stick this news everywhere as if in confirmation of their own criticism – but please, we're trying to write up a decent biography here, not an analysis of the "strange things out there beyond the Iron Curtain". — kashmīrī ^TALK 18:19, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Confirmed by Putin

Hi

Putin have confirmed the death. Panam2014 (talk) 16:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Panam2014 Source? Parham wiki (talk) 16:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

[7] Panam2014 (talk) 16:43, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Panam2014 Thank you Parham wiki (talk) 16:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Putin evidently was not waiting for a body to be identified as Prigozhin. 331dot (talk) 17:55, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Putin is not a Wikipedian. kencf0618 (talk) 08:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Main Belgian news have Putin officially confirming he's dead.

https://www.hln.be/buitenland/live-wagner-poetin-bevestigt-dood-prigozjin-hij-was-een-getalenteerde-man-die-fouten-heeft-gemaakt~a8ab6578/

Is this the first Western report? squirrel. kencf0618 (talk) 08:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

His body has been identified in the morgue by a Wagner commander. I doubt Putin would say this if there was any chance of him being alive. Pat2dv (talk) 18:22, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Putin might say that if he ordered the plane shot down, but point taken. 331dot (talk) 19:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Agree that this is confirmation from Putin. (Chances are Putin 'did' wait for forensic confirmation, but that's just my personal speculation.)

• Meduza: He was a person with a complex fate' Putin comments on Yevgeny Prigozhin's apparent death nearly 24 hours after plane crash - Meduza is now being more conservative than Putin
• The Moscow Times He was a man of complicated fate, ...

I've added The Moscow Times citation. Which raises an interesting question —should they be chronological order? kencf0618 (talk) 08:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Boud (talk) 20:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Pentagon assessment: he's dead, Jim.

Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder says the Pentagon believes Prigozhin was "likely" killed in the crash. From the New York Times here. Overlasting Peace (talk) 19:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding same reporting from NBC News here. Overlasting Peace (talk) 19:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@Overlasting Peace I added in 2023 Tver plane crash. Thank you Parham wiki (talk) 19:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The FBI still wants him, and a reward of up to $250,000 for information leading to his arrest is still on offer. https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/counterintelligence/yevgeniy-viktorovich-prigozhin/download.pdf kencf0618 (talk) 08:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean both the DOD and the UK's Ministry of defence say its highly likely he's dead TheHaloVeteran2 (talk) 08:24, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

The U.K. defence ministry said that he's likely dead but that there's no definitive proof, so keeping the page as presumed dead is the best port of call OneRandomBrit (talk) 09:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

"Likely". You can't arrest a dead man. kencf0618 (talk)

"Wagner Boss Prigozhin’s Body ID’ed in Morgue by Missing Finger: Report". The body of Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin has been positively identified in a Russian morgue by a commander of the mercenary group. -- GreenC 15:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

A "well-connected VChK-OGPU Telegram channel" is not a state organ. For that matter, this is the first time I've heard of the man missing a finger (shall look closely at photographs). For that that matter, there are DNA forensics, surgical records, and dental records. kencf0618 (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed dead.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has been officially confirmed dead, I have the article citation plus the Russian Federal Air transport agency has also confirmed his death. Kindly edit the article in light of this new development, thanks Mujiwins (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Post it. kencf0618 (talk) 10:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Kindly provide us with the article citation in question then, please. Drunk Experiter (talk) 17:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore the NYT notes that his death has not been officially declared. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/world/europe/yevgeny-prigozhin-dead.html kencf0618 (talk) 18:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Can we even trust any sort of declaration from the Russian authorities? Putin said he was dead, and very little happens in Russia without Putin's knowledge. 331dot (talk) 18:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

In point of fact, Putin did not confirm his death. Read his "eulogy" closely. Past tense? So what‽ And it's hardly a matter of trusting Russian sources, it's a matter of as per Wikipedia:Verifiability of verifying Russian sources, whatever they say—and we haven't heard from the official investigation, which is officially being run by the Ministry of Emergency Situations (Russia). At some level we'll to cite the official statements of Russian organs such that if the final report of the Ministry of Emergency Situations declares that, say, Prigozhin was asphyxiated in his hovercraft full of eels and that he was in a state of cardiac arrest, that still wouldn't be a report from a morgue or an official declaration of death. kencf0618 (talk) 11:58, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

There is some degree of trust involved, as to if something is a reliable source. Presumably Putin would not have spoken in the past tense if he did not think Prigozhin was dead or would otherwise have been less definitive("I'm waiting for official confirmation, but....") 331dot (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

The russian prosecutors office just now officially confirmed his death by DNA investigation. And other news, no one ever now has the right to make memes about "famous person: *dies* wikipedia editors on their way to change "is" to "was":", because yall cant admit that he is dead for a whole week as of now 193.37.192.149 (talk) 10:58, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Defense or Defence?

Both spellings are used in the article. Note that Ministry of Defence (Russia) uses the spelling with a C. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 17:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Should we really waste our energy on this issue? You decide Mujiwins (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

It's not a waste of energy to make sure appropriate policies like WP:ENGVAR are applied properly. 331dot (talk) 11:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Tver Plane Crash

This article references the plane crash that presumably killed Prigozhin and Utkin (details still developing). There is a wikipedia article on this, 2023 Tver plane crash. I propose that it is linked within this article. I can not directly edit the page. If editors with editing rights agree, please do so.LWu22 (talk) 20:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

it is linked, in the final paragraph of the lead. Moons of Io (talk) 20:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! LWu22 (talk) 20:24, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 August 2023

Prioghzin has been confirmed as dead 188.65.190.78 (talk) 11:07, 27 August 2023 (UTC)