Talk:Taiwan

Administrative problem: first level divisions

My edit of Douliu was removed and reverted by @Canterbury Tail as "disruptive". I added Taiwan Province as a first level followed by Yunlin County as a second level division. We have a big problem regarding ROC administrative divisions in the free area. So how about this: I'm opening up an RfC if we can propose two options in regards to the ROC subdivisions.

A. First level:

• Provinces: Taiwan, Fuchien
• Special Municipalities: Taipei, Kaohsiung, New Taipei, Tainan, Taichung, Taoyuan

B. First level:

• Autonomous municipalities: Keelung, Chiayi, Hsinchu
• Counties: Changhua, Chiayi, Hsinchu, Yunlin, Miaoli, Hualien, Taitung, Yilan, Pingtung, Penghu, Kinmen, Lienchiang
• Special Municipalities: Taipei, Kaohsiung, New Taipei, Tainan, Taichung, Taoyuan

While Google Maps and some maps online treat option B as main subdivisions, do you guys want the Province on the Infobox in its second, third and fourth level subdivision articles?

It's worth noting that Macau SAR got rid of parish governments in 2001 while Lithuania abolished county governments in 2010. The ROC kept Taiwan and Fuchien provinces for administrative and statistical purposes within the government especially the ROC Ministry of Interior still uses it. Getting rid of provinces from the ROC administrative structure would provoke the PRC.

@Amigao @Remsense @Game2Winter @matt smith, you're more than welcome to debate and discuss. -- Silence of Lambs (talk) 15:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I am inclined to oppose any framework that uses [[Taiwan|Republic of China]], since it clearly goes against the spirit of WP:COMMONNAME. I’m also inclined to oppose including Taiwan Province in the infobox just because it has no administrative function practically. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Taiwan Province only covers Penghu, 10 counties on Taiwan island, but it could be included with the exception of six municipalities. However, Fujian can stay for Kinmen and Matsu. Silence of Lambs (talk) 20:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

This discussion may be better held at that talkpage or at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Taiwan, as it does not directly concern this page. CMD (talk) 00:18, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks dude. Silence of Lambs (talk) 20:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Republic of China (Taiwan)

Add Republic of China (Taiwan) as an official name in the first sentence. According to Taiwan government website, Republic of China (Taiwan) is the official name. https://www.taiwan.gov.tw/about.php JDCohan (talk) 03:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Caption fix

Grammar fix in image caption in section "Relations with the PRC"; "Ma–Xi meeting was the first" should be "The Ma–Xi meeting..." 104.232.119.107 (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 03:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Taiwan is an island country

Taiwan is an island country. It's even listed on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_island_countries as such, and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Taiwan begins with "Taiwan is an island country in East Asia." Other articles like that of Japan or Madagascar also begin with "X is an island country in Y / off the coast of Z..."). It's not strictly necessary but how come this article doesn't begin with "Taiwan is an island country"?

This is pretty much an edit request (please edit the article with this suggestion if it's valid) but I'm more interested if there's a reason why it's not already since I'd assume it to be obvious. Sorry if it's been brought up before, I did check the recent archives of this talk page but couldn't find anything. Thank you 2A02:C7E:3188:4C00:D9C6:AE8B:9464:59DB (talk) 15:11, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hope it's clear this is a geographical, not political, issue 2A02:C7E:3188:4C00:D9C6:AE8B:9464:59DB (talk) 15:11, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes that is clear, i see no reason not to add island. Slatersteven (talk) 15:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done See the 2020 RfC. Remsense诉 16:18, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

This request does still call it a country. Slatersteven (talk) 16:29, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

If RfC participants thought island country was permissible, they likely would've specified. Very few did so. Remsense诉 16:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

That would be an assumption, not covered by the close which only covers the issue of county, which this does not change. I can only go by myself, but I try to answer the RFC question asked, not any ancillary matters (so if asked whether we call dogs animals I would say yes, not yes but also call them 4-legged) Slatersteven (talk) 16:37, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm only an IP and I'm just repeating Slatersteven's point but I would disagree, the debate was over whether Taiwan should be referred to on Wikipedia as a "country" or as a (sovereign) "state", not over the geography. If Hungary's status was disputed for some reason you wouldn't bother specifying in an RFC that you believe it as a "landlocked country" in place of a "landlocked state", right? You would just comment "I think Hungary should be called a country", I don't think the fact that most didn't specify in the 2020 RFC is worth much. Adding "island" does nothing to dispute Taiwan's political status. Ultimately this is only a minor and not-necessary change and it's up to actual editors like you though. Thank you 2A02:C7E:3188:4C00:D9C6:AE8B:9464:59DB (talk) 17:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I mean we can but in general it can get a bit wordy... And there is wide variation across the project, for example we use just country for Indonesia and for the Phillipines we use "archipelagic country" but with a link to archipelagic state. Personally I would rather that they all just say country in the first sentence of the lead and do geography elsewhere in the lead. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Agree it doesn't matter much, the lead is clear it is made of islands, the inclusion of it as an adjective or not is just flavouring. CMD (talk) 02:09, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree it is just flavoring, but I think “island country” would be quite descriptive and helpful both in the first sentence and in the short description. I think we all agree this would still satisfy the 2020 RfC consensus to use “country.” Butterdiplomat (talk) 03:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Certainly agree it doesn't affect the RfC result either way. CMD (talk) 03:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I would be in favour of the change, but some people have objected to it in the past. As I recall, the arguments were (a) it's not just one island, but several little ones too, and (b) claims to the mainland. Of course the first is true of all the other island countries too. Kanguole 12:10, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

not true! CMD (talk) 01:35, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Just add the link.. Island country ....not a big deal and leads readers to info like "a country whose primary territory consists of one or more islands or parts of islands. " and a map that talks about this small country. Moxy🍁 12:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think claims to the “mainland” (a historical and partisan claim) should dictate how the country is factually described. This description also does not prevent the historical ROC claims from being included elsewhere in the article. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)