Talk:Ohio

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Redundant table of facts

There are two tables of facts here. One is redundant. -- Zoe 22:55, 31 December 2002

Region

On the issue of what region Ohio is in -- there are no hard-and-fast definitions of regions in the United States. Usually, Ohio is considered Midwestern, but there are plenty of people who believe Ohio is too far east to be in the Midwest. It's not incorrect to say that Ohio is in the northeast, well, because look at the map. And for some purposes Ohio has more in common with Pennsylvania than with Iowa. I'm not going to change this, but I just wanted to note that there is no definitive regional definition here. Acsenray 15:00, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I agree about the frailty of regional definitions. From my perspective, having spent the first 25 years living in Ohio--I always thought of the midwest as consisting of the states that were formed out of the Northwest Territory. West of that were the Great Plains states. I may be wrong, but I think it is a relatively recent U.S. census-driven thing to refer to the entire area as the midwest. While there may be affinities between Ohio and the northeast, from a traditional persepective, it just sound very odd to say that Ohio is part of the northeast U.S. Many of the said affinities are likely due to the fact that many of the early settlers (at least in northeast Ohio (now there's an ironic coincidence) were from the northeastern states. But the same could be said of Michigan and Wisconsin--the Town system in Wisconsin is quite similar to that of New York. older≠wiser 15:43, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'd say Ohio is in the Northeastern corner of the US! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.104.20.14 (talk) 17:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Historically "Midwest" certainly applied to the original states of the Northwest Territories, but as time moved on the concept of "Midwest" shifted much farther westward than the term originally meant. Further, in doing so, it picked up a very rural connotation, which is not applicable to a lot of Ohio. As for Ohioans themselves, their comfort level with the term "Midwest" depends on where they are from--as a native Clevelander I was raised in believing that Ohio was unquestionably a Northeastern state. I find that Cincinnatians, however, happily call themselves Midwesterners. Today I have an affinity for the term "Great Lakes" as well as my own term "near-east." In my mind, Ohio sits solidly in Eastern time, and is closer to New York and DC than the Mississippi. My experience is that New Yorkers and other Northeasterners are the most likely to think of Ohio as Midwestern, but people to the west of Ohio are less sure. Jimbobjoe 10:50, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I finally went crazy enough with the regional definition of Ohio to soften the "midwestern" concept and begin implying that a.) Ohio is multi-regional, or, regionless, depending on how you look at things, b.) "Midwest" is not really a well-defined concept anyway, c.) there's quite a lot of disagreement regarding this issue. I left the basic concept of Ohio being a midwestern state reasonably intact, but I did so more out of history than anything, since I didn't really attempt to justify it all that much.

In time, the few lines that are there will likely, and should, grow into their own section discussion on region and Ohio. To that end, I would ask that people who are considering editing that section, to add to this discussion and the different sides of it, as opposed to attempting to pigeonhole Ohio into a region based on definition X or concept Y. Locking the first line of Ohio's wikipedia article into a definition of Ohio as a midwestern state doesn't give this controversy the due time it deserves. Jimbobjoe 08:35, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've always been comfortable with the decision to consider Ohio in the "Midwest", and really see no reason to debate the issue. The Northeast U.S. has colder climes, is generally a lot closer to the Eastern seaboard, and usually exhibits a more leftist (socialist) worldview than most of the folks in Ohio, so politically there are differences as well. Saying that the state isn't rural is a bit misleading as well. Sure, we have cities, but if you took anyone from China or India and tried to convince them that we were crowded, you would have a hard time convincing them in most of our counties. Just drive from Dayton up to Toledo along I-75, and you'll probably see more tractors than people along the way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.88.221.97 (talk) 18:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I've lived in Ohio almost my entire life and in my experience Ohioans universally refer to Ohio as part of the Midwest. I have many friends and family in Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus -- and have lived in these cities myself -- and I've never once heard someone refer to any region of Ohio as anything but Midwestern. After all, Pittsburgh is considered a Midwestern city and Buffalo is often described as being on the border of the Northeast and Midwest and both cities are obviously located a considerable amount further to the east than anywhere in Ohio. Furthermore, it may be true that Plains States such as Iowa, Missouri, or Nebraska have been referred to as part of the Midwest in recent years, but this is simply due to misuse of the word Midwest. Those states are the Heartland. And this is the problem -- people equate the words Midwest and Heartland when, in fact, they are two separate regions with distinctly different geography, culture, etc. The rule of thumb that I've always encountered is that the states at the core of the Great Lakes are the Midwest -- Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Wisconsin. That leaves two "oddball" states that don't exactly fit into any category -- Minnesota which has characteristics of the Midwest and Heartland and West Virginia which isn't really Midwestern, Northeastern, *or* Southern. This is debatable (like I said, it's just a rule of thumb), but one thing is for sure -- to use the word Midwest to describe anything West of the Mississippi is just plain wrong. -- Stereoisomer 19:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

As a native Clevelander, I've never heard Ohio referred to as Northeastern, although when I first heard it, I could understand where they were coming from, at least in regards to the Cleveland area. However, after going to college in New England, I have to say that Cleveland is much, much, MUCH more Midwestern than Northeastern. If I had to compare it to any other city in the country, I'd say that we have a lot in common with Detroit (rustbelt, auto manufacturing,) which is definitely Midwestern. We may not have the feel of Chicago, but we're definitely more likek Chi-town than Boston or New York City. --Confiteordeo 19:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Ohio is northeast. Ohio is not in the Midwest.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.104.114.196 (talk)

Actually, it is not properly either. Ohio sort of falls into both categories, and depending on which source for info you use, the classification will vary. For the record, as a native Clevelander, born and raised, who has resided in Chicago for the past 14 years, Cleveland has a lot more of a Northeastern feel to it than you may care to realize. While the Western half of the state does have a bit of a Midwestern feel to it as well, the northeastern part of the state shares more in common, both geographically as well as culturally, with Pennsylvania than it does with Midwestern states like Indiana and Illinois. Likewise, the southeastern part is more akin to Appalachia and the South. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Technically, Ohio has always been defined as part of the Midwest region. My understanding of the region is that it encompasses the middle and western parts of the country (up until the Rocky Mountains start). If you really want to get into a battle of semantics, though, I will be happy to oblige. Consider it on a global scale. Ohio is as much a part of the Midwest as Iran is part of the Middle East. You can see on this map that the name "Middle East" is a bit of a misnomer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GreaterMiddleEast2.png. "Midwest" is really just a catch-all phrase given to the area between the Appalachian Mountains and the Rocky Mountains. Oubobcat11 (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Politics

What about Ohio's status as a swing-state on the national stage, or the internal political tendencies of the state? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.29.222.241 (talk) 06:38, 29 August 2004 (UTC)

In the "Political Demographics and history" section it states that state politics are currently dominated by Democrats. I am not sure that this is an accurate statement. The information that I have been able to find says that Ohio's General Assembly is currently controlled by the Republicans and despite the election of a Democratic governor will remain in Republican hands for the 127th session. So perhaps the Ohio article should be changed to say that state politics are dominated by the Republicans. ClixTrek 19:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The article used to say that state politics are dominated by Republicans, but following the election, somebody changed it to read Democrats. Since the two parties essentially share control now, I removed the statement. - EurekaLott 20:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Added Bellefontaine...

...to list of important cities and towns. While Bellefontaine is certainly not among Ohio's largest cities, it is important in that the city played a role in many of Ohio's historical periods. From its founding as the Shawnee community of Blue Jacket's Town c. 1770, to the travels of pioneers Simon Kenton, John Chapman, David Jones, and the Zane family, Bellefontaine was an important site at the founding of Ohio. Bellefontaine's importance continued through the railroading era; it was the site of one of the largest railroad terminals in the Eastern United States. As Ohio and America took to the automobile, Bellefontaine was there: The process for paving streets with concrete was perfected at Bellefontaine. And now, Bellefontaine is at the center of Honda of America Manufacturing's extensive Ohio operations. SwissCelt 21:52, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not to mention being the home of the highest point in the state of Ohio! That's significant! *ahem* Actually, I'm very fond of Bellefontaine, and I don't intend to protest its inclusion, though perhaps we should get someone who isn't from Ohio to comment. --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 22:04, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think my bugaboo is with the section heading, "Important cities and towns". "Important" should not be synonymous with "most populous". SwissCelt 23:07, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Date of statehood

The article currently state that Ohio was admitted to the Union on "August 7, 1953, retroactive to March 1, 1803" (in the table) which is explained somewhat in the text with

"Under the Northwest Ordinance, Ohio could begin the process to statehood once its population exceeded 5,000. On February 19, 1803, President Jefferson signed an act of Congress that declared Ohio the 17^th state. The current custom of Congress declaring statehood did not begin until 1812, with Louisiana's admission, so, in 1953, President Eisenhower signed an act that officially declared March 1, 1803 the date of Ohio's admittance into the Union."

I don't think this is quite accurate. First, Ohio was accepted as a State of the Union by the act of February 19, 1903 [1]. The act stated that Ohio had fulfilled the process set out in the enabling act of April 30, 1802, "whereby the said state has become one of the United States of America". Unlike Lousiana and subsequent states, no effective date was declared for this change of status and the language was not as explicit as for subsequent states. Yet there is no question that Ohio had fulfilled all the requirements set out by Congress and was legally recognized as a state on February 19, 1803.

The lack of an explicit declaration of a date of statehood only became an issue as the 150th anniversary approached in 1953. The issue was more a matter of PR and self-promotion than a matter of law, but Congress and Eisenhower played along with the Ohio congressman, George Bender, who introduced the legislation that retroactively recognized Ohio's official date of admittance to the Union. [2] [3] [4][5]

I am going to change the table to read "March 1, 1803, declared retroactively on August 7, 1953 and update the explanation in the text. older≠wiser 18:49, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I don't have the citation handy, but the courts were forced to consider the issue of when exactly Ohio became a state. The issue came up for because as to when officers of the territory ceased to hold their offices and be entitled to pay, expense accounts, etc. The courts determined the date as March 1, 1803 because that was the date the Constitution entered into force and the General Assembly first sat. The first governor was sworn in either on the second or the third. This judicial determination was made circa 1807. PedanticallySpeaking 14:36, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Plaque on Wall Street

The photo of the plaque outside Federal Hall doesn't commemorate the Northwest Ordinance but rather the Ohio Company of Associates of Israel Ludlow et alia that bought a large chunk of southeastern Ohio around Marietta. (I corresponded with the New-York Historical Society on this issue a couple of years ago after I saw a photo of Federal Hall with the unmistakable outline of Ohio visible.) PedanticallySpeaking 14:38, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

The title is definitely about the Ohio Company, as you say, but the caption also describes the Northwest Ordinance and the Northwest Territory. -- Decumanus 17:57, 2004 Oct 23 (UTC)

Ohio school districts

I posted an item for discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. special districts#Ohio school districts on what to name articles on our school districts. I'd appreciate Wikipedians looking at my query and posting comments there. PedanticallySpeaking 18:38, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

Bot for Ohio Townships Project

I created Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio townships yesterday after having gone through and manually created articles on all the townships in Butler, Warren, and Clinton counties, e.g. Oxford Township, Butler County, Ohio.
There is a wealth of data on each township in the Census data, which are also available more easily through Ohio State's site. Bots were used to create articles from this data on all of Ohio's villages and cities and I wonder if someone would be willing to create and operate a bot for me to add the Census data to the existing articles and to create new ones. I have some guidelines on the project page for how these articles should be set up. If someone's interested, please let me know on my talk page. And I'd welcome anyone to join the project as well. PedanticallySpeaking 15:20, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

French and Indian War

The war fought from 1756-1763 is known as the French and Indian War only in the US, and not all of North America, as the article states. In Canada, as elsewhere, the war is called the Seven Years War. Corrected to show this fact.--Simon.Pole 03:00, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Annual rain fall

I looked up Ohio to find out what the annual rain fall was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.135 (talk) 23:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Cities and towns cut

The following cities and towns were cut in the most recent edit:

• Athens, Ohio
• Chillicothe, Ohio
• Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
• Elyria, Ohio
• Euclid, Ohio
• Findlay, Ohio
• Lakewood, Ohio
• Lima, Ohio
• Mansfield, Ohio
• Marietta, Ohio
• Mentor, Ohio
• Middletown, Ohio
• Warren, Ohio
• Zanesville, Ohio

I think Athens, Chillicothe, and Marietta should stay. Chillicothe was the site of the Constitutional Convention and capital city for a few years. Marietta was also one of the capital cities, along with being the home of the oldest college in the Northwest Territory. Athens is the site of the first public university in the state. Rkevins82 20:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Naming convention

I've proposed a standard form for naming articles on Ohio school districts: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ohio school districts), which could easily be extended to apply to districts in other states. I'd welcome some feedback on this. PedanticallySpeaking 16:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Important cities

I feel that Parma, Lorain, and Hamilton should be removed from the list of important cities. This is not due to them being unimportant, rather that they are part of a larger metropolitan area (Cleveland for Parma and Lorain, and Cincinnati for Hamilton). The US census bureau consideres these cities to be part of their MSAs, as they are geographically fairly close to the nearby major city. Bcirker 22:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, unless someone can make a solid argument for including them, I think we ought to remove about half of the municipalities listed, and furthermore, change the heading to Major Cities. Important sounds very POV, and besides, everyone finds his or her own town to be important. The major cities -- meeting the criteria of being either a manufacturing and/or financial center, or a government seat as well as being a population center -- should be listed accordingly. CMSA's or at least MSA's should probably be combined (e.g. Akron-Canton). This article should be a Wikipedia Feature Article, and right now, it looks like a 4-H project. I've already started to work on it a bit... please feel free to jump in. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 08:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I changed the heading on Important cities to Major cities.---OHWiki 01:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Statistics in metric units

Why are all of the statistics for the state showing up in Metric Units? None of the folks I know here in Ohio use Metric units. In fact, most of them have no idea how long 355 kilometers is. I tried updating these to show both English and Metric, but someone deleted all of my work. It only makes sense to have the measurement used in the area in question shown on the page, when most of the folks looking up information on it will be from that area. They have a right to have access to the data in a useable form, without having to do a bunch of conversions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.88.221.97 (talk) 18:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Featured article

I'm trying to nominate my home state as a featured article. Fellow Buckeyes, please help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leoberacai (talk • contribs) 04:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Religion

Here's the Reform Judaism info I trimmed:

"Cincinnati was a hotbed for the American Reform Judaism movement in the 19th Century. Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise, a Bohemian immigrant to Ohio, was a major contributor to this. Under Mayer’s supervision the Hebrew Union College -- the oldest Jewish Seminary in the Americas – opened in Cincinnati in 1875."

Interesting, but it seemed too detailed for the overview nature of the paragraph. The history of religion in Ohio should be a separate topic from the current religious demographic. I presume the same information is available under Reform Judaism; if not, it should certainly appear there. Carboncopy 03:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Question: Amish/Pietist

The combination of "Amish/Pietist" seems very strange to me. As far as I know pietism is a Christian movement among Lutherans (and some other denominations) mostly in Germany. Does "Piestist" have another meaning here in context with the Amish? If so, what does it mean here? Does it make sense? (Sorry, if these questions seem silly to you. I'm not a native English speaker.) The combination "Amish/Pietist" was added to the article by a user with an IP-address on July 1, 2005: [6]. -- Mathetes Ger 09:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Not only is lumping Amish and Pietist nonsensical, but the numbers in that table are flat-out wrong. The best numbers on religious affiliation come from the Association of Religion Data Archivists, and they say that there are 5,101,169 religious adherents in Ohio. The census says that the state population is 11,353,140.

Apparently the census number was used in calculating the Catholics number. There are 2,231,832 Roman Catholics, which is 43.75% of the adherents, or 19.66% of the total population - but that table says that the baptists number 15%. By the time you add together all the churches that have Baptist somewhere in the name, you get 3.28%, and if you add together all the evangelical churches together, you only get 9.95% of the population.

According to Wikipedia:Verifiability, Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Given that there's not a single sourced statement in the entire Religion subsection, and the data doesn't even begin to pass the giggle test, I am removing the entire subsection.

I don't object to religious demographics being in Wikipedia's U.S. States articles. If someone wants to write a religion subsection based on fact instead of fantasy, and provide proper references for it, I would certainly encourage them to do so. A good place to get started would be the ARDA web page on Ohio religious adherents. (Note: if you highlight the table on that page, copy it to a text file, and then open the text file in Excel or other spreadsheet, there's a tab between the columns, making it easy to generate meaningful numbers from the 116 religious groups.) ClairSamoht 01:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and for removing the unsourced contents making Wikipedia less false. -- Mathetes Ger 21:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

State symbols

I have an idea for converting the state symbols list to a more graphical view. See below. --Midnightcomm 04:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

• 
  State animal
• 
  State bird
• 
  State capital: Columbus
• State flower: Scarlet Carnation
  State flower: Scarlet Carnation
• 
  State wildflower
• 
  State insect
• 
  State song: Beautiful Ohio
• 
  State rock song: "Hang On Sloopy"
• 
  State tree
• 
  State fossil
• 
  State drink
• 
  State reptile
• 
  State gemstone
• 
  State motto: "With God all things are possible."
• 
  Unofficial Motto 1: "The heart of it all."
• 
  Unofficial Motto 2: "So much to discover."

• State motto: "With God all things are possible."
• Unofficial Motto 1: "The heart of it all." Used on Ohio's license plates between the years 1991 and 2001.
• Unofficial Motto 2: "So much to discover." Adopted as part of state bicentennial campaign.

--Midnightcomm 04:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Mid west?

The start of the article quotes The Economist saying that Ohio is in the mid west of the united states. From the map it appears to be in the north eastern corner of the country. So how does one arrive at it being in the mid west? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.209.7 (talk) 15:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ohio is part of the Midwest, which is a region of the United States, just like the Mid-Atlantic and New England. Please feel free to read about these regions and learn more! Also, please sign your comments on talk pages. Confiteordeo 22:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The term "Midwest" is confusing not just to non-Americans but to many Americans as well. "New England" has a specific definition and is comprised of the six most northeastern states, no more and no less. "Mid-Atlantic" is rather intuitive and the major question would be if it went on down the Atlantic coast to Virigina or North Carolina (consenus would be that it does not). But Ohio and several other Midwestern states (notably Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois) are certainly not in the middle of the Western United States as currently constituted. The answer lies that they were such when the term first gained currency, which was well before much of what is now the Western United States was settled, or even part of the United States, and this historical term has carried over to the present even though it no longer makes real sense. Rlquall 00:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Ohio is in the Northeast

See the discussion over here. You could probably divide the state down the middle somewhere as to where Midwest meets Northeast. Frank12 16:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Climate

Does Ohio have a climate ;-) and if yes, what is it like? --62.134.233.93 19:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC) Found this pdf. Could someone include it into the article, please? My English is not good enough... Thank You! --62.134.228.22 20:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Other than your understanding of the word climate, I would say your English is pretty darn good.--65.16.61.35 15:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

That PDF is for the 1950's. A more recent chart may be better. S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s ^{(Talk to Me)} 02:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Unofficial motto (spam)

Removed "Build Your Business. Love Your Life." from the list. It's nothing more than an advertising slogan for the Ohio Business Development Coalition, which is a consortium of corporations and chambers of commerce. One of the stated goals in their mission statement:

Develop a brand and messages to aggressively sell Ohio as a profitable location for business investment

This would seem to qualify the "motto" as spam. The article is better off without it.

I'm moving the link to the article provided by ConfiteorDeo, for reference. "Ads aim to lure CEOs to try Ohio" The Cincinnati Enquirer, September 14, 2006. Accessed October 31 2006.

Should any of the other "unofficial mottos" be included in this article? They don't seem like encyclopedic material. --KeithB 04:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Senators

Should the infobox be changed to replace Mike Dewine with Sherrod Brown for our senator, per the elections? Or has he not be sworn in or something? Just checking, seems like kind of a big fact to miss...same with governor, it should be Strickland now. DoomsDay349 17:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No, they haven't taken office yet. (Well, Strickland hasn't taken his new office yet.) Taft steps down in January, but I don't quite know when Congress is sworn in. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 17:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Per Section 2 of the Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution, Congress must meet by "noon on the 3rd day of January". So I suppose the swearing in takes place then, or soon after?

The new governor is sworn in "on the second Monday of January next after his election", per O.R.C. § 107.01.. So the eighth of Jan, 2007.

I'm placing a comment in the article text to attempt to keep editors from changing the pols until then. --KeithB 22:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Sherrod Brown has officially been sworn into office --User:Williamp9 6:53, January 4, 2007 (EST)

Vandalism

It seems someone thinks changing everything on the page to variants of the "your mom" joke is funny. I'm only a novice at this wiki thing, could someone with more experience and authority please undo the damage that has been done? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.132.42.13 (talk)

Speaking of vandalism

Somebody should also remove "Ohio's main export is prostitutes." (It's up near the top.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.0.212.132 (talk)

Done. Confiteordeo 23:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I was just about to ask if a disproportanate number of successful porn stars came from Ohio, when I saw the mention of "exporting prostitutes" in this vandalism section. I've personally noticed quite a few spirited stars come from Ohio. Are there any current references on the sex industry in Ohio? ...

I'd like to know if there is anything about Ohioan culture that's conducive to a healthier attitude towards sex than the rest of America's puritan approach. I'm still doing basic sexological research on this. If noone has any input, I may still add to this comment later. 64.175.42.74 06:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Ohio. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Introductory Paragraph - midwest versus whatever, new proposed language

IMHO, the introductory paragraph is far too focused on whether Ohio is or is not part of the midwestern states. Perhaps the debate could be moved into the Geography section, and a better introduction could be written for that first paragraph. Thoughts? JonathanFreed 19:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's any debate about whether or not Ohio is Midwestern, but I agree that a lot of the information is superfluous. What do you think of this intro, based on the Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan articles?

Ohio is the 17^th U.S. state and is located in the Midwestern region of the United States of America. With over 11 million residents, the state is the second most populous in the Midwest, and the seventh most populous in the nation. The name "Ohio" is an Iroquoian word meaning "good river," and refers to the Ohio River, which forms the state's southern border. In 1803, Ohio became the first state to be admitted to the Union under the Northwest Ordinance.

An alternative first sentence could be, "Ohio is a Midwestern state of the United States, and is located in the Great Lakes region of the country," which is more like the Michigan intro.

--Confiteordeo 20:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe there is plenty of debate regarding calling Ohio "midwestern." As I said in earlier comments on this issue, the issue of region should be put into its own special section.

I think the main issue is that "Ohio is a midwestern state" leads the article of Ohio and that is a mistake because it implies that that is one of Ohio's defining features. If anything, I consider Ohio's "midwesterness" one of its most misleading features and a source of much confusion.

The following is the language that I created in December 2005. I believe this copy does a good job of discussing this issue without pigeonholing Ohio unnecessarily.

Ohio is a state in the United States. Historically (but not universally) considered a part of the Midwest, Ohio is a multi-regional, cultural and geographical crossroads, with elements of the Midwest, Northeast, Appalachia and the South. "This slice of the mid-west contains a bit of...(etc)

At some point in time, someone came along and removed "(but not universally)." I did not consider that line hugely important in lead, though it did imply a certain amount of discussion of this issue (whereas without the line the discussion of the issue is purely alluded to.) The line's removal was fine, except for the fact that people naturally want to simplify it down to "Ohio is a midwestern state" which is actually different from "Historically considered a part of..."Jimbobjoe 09:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, two comments spaced a year apart questioning Ohio's region do not constitute "plenty of debate," and forgive me, but you were the only editor in the above debate who thought Ohio should be classified as anything but midwestern. What JonathanFreed was saying, if I didn't misunderstand him, is that there was debate in the article, which there isn't. The problem with "historically (but not universally)" is that it implies that Ohio is not currently considered to be midwestern, although it certainly is according to the vast majority of definitions. Remember, opinion doesn't matter, only verifiable information, such as this: [7] and this [8]. Confiteordeo 11:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I wouldn't say that I thought that "Ohio should be classified as anything but midwestern." I feel that coming out and having as the first sentence "Ohio is a midwestern state" is misleading all by itself.

Now to be fair, 80% of the changes that I made at that time survived--they were designed to underscore Ohio's multiregional characteristics. (The current language is "Ohio is a cultural and geographical crossroads, which was settled by people from..." which I find a less elegant variation of my original "with elements of the...."

I think someone could make the argument that the current language is slightly more accurate, but the Economist quote which follows is entirely capable of legitimately supporting my original language.

How about taking some of your proposed language and some of mine and creating:

Ohio is the 17^th U.S. state and is located in the Midwestern region of the United States of America. Ohio is a multi-regional, cultural and geographical crossroads, with elements of the Midwest, Northeast, Appalachia and the South. "This slice of the mid-west contains a bit of..."

I actually am not particularly enamored with the IN, MI language. The statehood sequence number, it's sequence in terms of population in comparison to other states--these are just facts that I find best in a table. Unless they are part of an article template, the language is unnecessarily boring. While IL does have that language, it then makes it up for some outstanding language in the second part of the first paragraph. (To be fair, the language I put together at the end of the first paragraph of the Ohio article--which is still there, was meant to deal with people defining Ohio as midwestern simply because the census bureau said so. As things go, it couldn't be a more boring 3rd sentence for the damn article. So it's not like I haven't written god awfully boring copy before.)

Oh, and I'm big on verifiable information. Of the 19 citations on this article, 7 are mine. :-) I believe my citations were the first the article ever had.

Jimbobjoe 04:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The more I think about this, the more I think the current language for the first sentence is problematic and less elegant than it could be. Because I've experienced this language section changing a lot, and not necessarily for well founded reasons in my opinion, I propose the following language with followed by defenses for why it's better than the current text.

Ohio is a U.S. state located in the Midwestern region of the United States of America. Part of the Great Lakes region, Ohio is a multi-regional, cultural and geographical crossroads, with elements of the Midwest, Northeast, Appalachia and the South. "This slice of the mid-west contains a bit of everything American—part north-eastern and part southern, part urban and part rural, part hardscrabble poverty and part booming suburb..."

The main proposal here is to change the current line "which was settled by people from New England, the Middle States, Appalachia, and the upper south" to "with elements of the Midwest, Northeast, Appalachia and the South."

The proposed text is perfectly justified by the quote from the Economist which follows. On the other hand, the current text is harder to justify (particularly because immigration from "middle states" is neither defined nor, whatever it may be, significant) and the inclusion of Ohio's immigration history into the first paragraph is a request for enormous complexity. (This article does indeed lack a good section on immigration to Ohio, particularly that of european immigration which had a huge role in settling the 3 major cities.) However the article's lack of an immigration section should not be made up by a less than ideal second sentence.Jimbobjoe 09:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Ohio's Growth

I see a quote in the "Demographics" section that caught my eye as it is blatantly incorrect.

"Although Ohio grows slowly, it grows faster than states such as New York or Michigan."

Now, I'm not sure about New York, but Michigan grew just as fast as Ohio over the 80's (i.e. 0%), and Michigan grew faster over the 90's (Michigan's 7% vs. Ohio's 5%), and is predicted to have grown faster thus far in the 2000's according to the mid-decade census estimates (Michigan's 2% vs. Ohio's 0.9%), so how can this fact be true for Michigan? --Criticalthinker 06:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, it's complete BS. I'll get rid of it if it is still there.

7FlushSetzer 02:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

On redoing the Lead...again

About mid-February the lead was changed to what I believe is a less effective lead. I have seen the individual editor's justification for the changes, but I don't believe they are strong enough to support the changes, and have diminished the article.

The current lead:

a.) Spends a lot of time mentioning Native Americans and their time in Ohio. However, very little of the article discusses Native Americans in Ohio (arguably a failure point of the article) and, unlikey many other states, Native Americans have not had that much effect on modern Ohio because they were gone by the time of Ohio's ascendancy. Undoubtedly Native Americans have an influence on Ohio, but I'm afraid that influence wasn't strong enough to justify a mention in a 4 sentence summary of the state.

b.) copies some strange, misleading and inaccurate language regarding Ohio's settlement (particularly on the line "was settled by people from...the Middle States"...middle states? what they hell are those? and besides, Ohio wasn't settled by the middle states.)

I propose returning back to an amended lead which had been around prior to the mid-February change.

Ohio is a U.S. state located in the Midwestern region of the United States of America. Part of the Great Lakes region, Ohio is a multi-regional, cultural and geographical crossroads, with elements of the Midwest, Northeast, Appalachia and the South. "This slice of the mid-west contains a bit of everything American—part north-eastern and part southern, part urban and part rural, part hardscrabble poverty and part booming suburb" notes The Economist.

The Economist quote I believe is an extraordinarily elegant, concise and unique way of discussing the complexities of Ohio. In that regard, I think it's perfect for the lead and in that regard many wikipedians did as well, leaving it up there for a good year or so.

The editor who removed it said that the "lead should not contain material that is not in the main text" but I don't see that in the Wikipedia guidlines, nor do I believe that that text says/implies things which are not in the article already.

I'd like to change the lead to my proposed language, and I hereby request comment for feedback on that. I'd like to be able to justify the changes through a process that either included feedback, or no opposition. Jimbobjoe 00:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the OR settlement information, and I think that the proposed version of the first paragraph is pretty good. However, I'd change the first sentence to "Ohio is a Midwestern state of the United States of America," which is basically what the sentence is now. My reasoning is this: saying that Ohio is a U.S. state located in the United States is redundant, and not repeating the word "region" makes the intro flow better. --Confiteordeo 15:53, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Native...whats?

Does anyone know what natives of Ohio are called? C0N6R355 20:59, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Ohioans. -Confiteordeo 22:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. C0N6R355 23:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

More proof that Ohio is in the Northeast

Northeasterners eat their hot dogs with ketchup. Midwesterners would prefer mustard. Ohioans love ketchup on hotdogs so Ohio is a Northeastern state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.104.114.196 (talk)

No, it's in the midwest. Firstly, that is a matter of opinion and original research, as I know many Ohioans who use simply use mustard (I live in Ohio), and have met many northeasterners who use ketchup.

FYI: geography is decided by location, and not eating habits. - hmwithtalk 12:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Ohio is generally referred to as a Midwest or a Great Lakes state. It is definitely not northeast, and I know of no Ohioan who would call themselves a northeasterner. IF Ohioans eat Ketchup, it could be because Northwest Ohio is a large tomato producer. Ohio's state drink is tomato juice. There has been a push to designate the tomato as Ohio's state fruit. I'm a native Ohio mustard user myself. Mbeatty 22:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm an Ohio and I say I'm in the Northeast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.138.185 (talk)

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 12:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, 70.106.138.185, you must be about the only one, because, in all elementary schools in the US, one learns that Ohio is in the Midwest. It's in every existing history book and reliable source. hmwith^[?] 05:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I too am an Ohioan as well, and completely can see both sides of this debate, but especially having been away from the area for a couple years, I definately feel I'm more of a "northeasterner" than a "midwesterner"....west of what? Verbatim, it doesn't make sense. We are right on the border of both geographic zones; "Mideasterner" is probably more accurate, to be honest. A "Great Lakes state" is fine too. I had to laugh at the ketchup thing....I grew up completely with ketchup on my hotdogs (I use mustard occasionally, like at the Jake), while my wife, from Oklahoma, is a mustard user and thought ketchup was weird. :) -BulaJacket —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.178.35 (talk) 06:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Look, I understand why some people feel Ohio is in the northeast, and why others say it is the midwest. I would guess that most people in the north and southwest parts of Ohio would side with northeast, and the middle sections would probably say midwest. I would say midwest, but it doesn't matter. Go to Midwestern United States or search 'midwest' in Google. The definition of what is and is not midwest may differ from source to source, but I have yet to find one that does not include Ohio. It really doesn't matter what any person feels is the midwest, it is a term with a definition, and when the term midwest was coined, Ohio was certainly midwest. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia exists to provide a source for the facts on a topic, no matter how stupid you feel the facts are. Polypmaster —Preceding comment was added at 17:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Ohio Portal

Any interest in creating a Portal for Ohiosimilar to the ones created by other states? Portal:Florida, Portal:California, and Portal:Vermont. Vbofficial 10:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

YES. :D Octane ^{[improve me]} 14.07.07 1735 (UTC)

Agree S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s ^{(Talk to Me)} 02:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

New article

Midwest flooding of 2007 has been created, involving the effects of the recent (and ongoing) rain and flooding. Kablammo 20:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Sports: Cincinnati's "Grand Slam" status

I was editing the Sport section, and did a little rewrite on the paragraph about the Grand Slam status of Cincinnati and Cleveland. This is the status of having a team in each of the four sports leagues: MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL.

I couldn't find any record of Cincinnati ever having had an NHL team. The old text said that Cincinnati had GS status from 1968 to 1972. The NFL Bengals started in 1968, so I see where the 1968 comes from; and the NBA Cincinnati Royals (now the Sacramento Kings) left in 1972. But I don't know of any NHL team that was ever present in Cincinnati. Cincinnati has had some non-NHL teams, but even counting them, the time lines for these don't seem right, either: the Cincinnati Mohawks (1949-1958) were too early; and the Cincinnati Stingers (1975–1979) and the Cincinnati Cyclones (1999-present) were too late.

Am I missing a team, or was the prior entry wrong?

I've taken out the Cincinnati claim, but I took it out with a comment, keeping the text as I rewrote it, including the wikilinks. If anyone can fill in this hole (if indeed there is one), please have at it. -- Terry Carroll 06:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Sports rates

I removed this claim: "One unconfirmed rate said that a poll found residents responded their favorite NFL team as 55% Browns, 25% Pittsburgh Steelers, 9% Detroit Lions and only 6% Bengals, 5% others." Besides being poorly worded (a rate said that a poll found residents responded their favorite NFL team?), it also provides specific statistics without a citation. I've tagged the previous statement about the disparity in merchandizing for citing. -- JHunterJ 17:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I found a poll at [9]. It says: 37% Browns, 19% Bengals, 6% Steelers. Of course, this is from 2003... S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s ^{(Talk to Me)} 02:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I find the fact non-notable. Maybe if there was an articke in Sports in Ohio it should be added, but otherwise, it should stay out. (Sseballos) Spencer^TC 11:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Blacks in Ohio

Merely stating that slavery was not permitted implies an incorrect and lopsided view of the treatment of blacks in Ohio. I think the Black Laws and the fierce discouraging of black immigration at least deserve a brief mention. Cami Solomon 05:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Ku Klux Klan

The article should have a section on how the KKK exercised power of Blacks in the state. The article si very bias and paints a false history of kindness in Ohio to those who are not white. This article needs work. "The Ku Klux Klan was especially strong in Ohio during the 1910s and 1920s. In Summit County, the Klan claimed to have fifty thousand members, making it the largest local chapter in the United States."The link is to Ohio historical society. More info:KKK--Margrave1206 (talk) 19:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I would encourage you to review the articles in Category:History of Ohio to see if there is a place for the topic you are addressing there. The article here focusses on Ohio in the present, with only a cursory history. It would be difficult to do the topic justice in the present broad Ohio article. Carboncopy (talk) 20:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I placed a section about the KKK on the first page in the history section, however it is not long. If you wish to move it to the history page that if fine. --Margrave1206 (talk) 20:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Length of the High School/Collegiate Sports section

As big a fan as I am, and as proud as I am of Ohio's football legacy (particularly when it is played by the Buckeyes, Browns and St. Ignatius), I am looking at the section on the collegiate and high school sports section, and it needs an overhaul. There should definitely be something mentioned about football, but to give a comprehensive list of programs (or anything past a gloss for that matter), detracts from the point of the article itself: to give an overview of The State of Ohio. It makes the article lengthier than need be, and restates info that is already presented in other articles for specific schools mentioned. Besides that, there are NPOV issues. Any thoughts? If no one else has anything to add or debate on the matter, I will begin to edit it in the next few days. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 00:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I see you've already started trimming the sport section. I agree that the sport section in general (not just the high school/collegiate sports) is growing out of proportion to its importance in this article. There seems to be enough enthusiasm about Ohio sports that I suggest that we create a new article, "Sports in Ohio" or "Ohio sports" (I suggest "Ohio sports," to match the template referred to below) or some such, which captures all the info currently here (including perhaps the stuff you've already deleted, to the extent that it's not unencyclopedic in its own right). Then we drastically trim this section down to a few lines. Maybe one sentence mentioning the teams in the "Big Four" majors: Baseball (Indians, Reds); Basketball (Cavs); Football (Browns, Bengals); Hockey (Blue Jackets). Another on other professional sports teams, both in the other lesser (heh, that ought to bring the soccer fans out) major leagues and the minor leagues; and then collegiate and high school. Include a "main" directive like {{main|Ohio sports}} to direct to the other article.

I note that there's a very nice Template:Ohio Sports (backlinks edit) that can be used in the sports article. TJRC (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

That solution might work, although there are extensive articles on all the major teams already (the Browns and Indians articles are nearly as long as the Ohio article). Most of the stuff I removed was either POV or unsourced (and likely unsource-able in the first place). I'm holding off a little while longer on editing the high school/collegiate section to give a fair say to anyone who wants to contest it though.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 17:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Ohio Portal

Looking to start an Ohio Portal. If I can get two others to back it I'll begin it sometime this week. Stepshep (talk) 22:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It's starting, check it out at Portal:Ohio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stepshep (talk • contribs) 23:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting tidbit

I was reading the Ohio revised code, and on the General Provisions §5.30 reads Saturday afternoon is legal holiday. Every Saturday afternoon is a legal holiday, beginning at twelve noon and ending at twelve midnight. No section of the Revised Code and no decision of any court shall affect the validity of any check, bill of exchange, order, promissory note, due bill, mortgage, or other writing obligatory made, signed, negotiated, transferred, assigned, or paid by any person, corporation, or bank upon said holiday, or any other transaction had thereon.

Effective Date: 10-01-1953

Could this be added to the article? §tepshep • ¡Talk to me! 22:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The Ohio State University

An IP editor is repeatedly changing the correct name of The Ohio State University to just "Ohio State University." His first objection here was that the name of the Wikipedia article did not contain "the." That's beside the point; it's the name of the institution, not the article, that matters. But to humor him, I made it a piped link so it went straight to the article without the redirect, while still using the correct university name. He reverted that, too, with no explanation. The indefinite article "The" is part of the university's official name, and should remain. See Ohio State University#History and its references. I personally think that the "The" is pretty lame, but it is correct, and should be retained. (postscript: he again reverted, now saying that the name of the article, not the institution, is what matters, which is patently absurd.) After I fix this again, I'll be at my 3rr limit, so I'd appreciate some discussion here. If the consensus here is that the right thing to do is to use the wrong name, I'll shut up and go away. TJRC (talk) 18:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Link to article name (no "the"), pipe with official name (including "the"), just as you have done. (My opinion). Cheers Geologyguy (talk) 19:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The piped link is the ideal solution as it leads readers to the article without a redirect, while showing the university's correct, official name. The IP in question is already in violation of 3RR (~5 reverts in the last 24 hours.) I have warned him or her to quit edit-warring and asked for his or her input on the talk page. If the warring continues, it will have to be reported. --Confiteordeo (talk) 20:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Largest Metro

The largest metro region of any Ohio city is now Greater Cincinnati, which is a 15 county region which includes counties in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. Please see http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008803270372 for more information.