Talk:Outlaws Motorcycle Club

Comments

From Article: "Each chapter has a clubhouse. These clubhouses are used for "church meetings," parties, and privacy. They are usually secured by concrete walls, steel doors, razor wire, guard dogs, and video surveillance."

Is there proof of this? I'm not sure that every chapter has a clubhouse, and I doubt whether many of them would be secured to the extent that this makes it out to be. 01/30/2006

This should be corrected. 03/24/2006

"The Outlaws collect information on their rivalries with other clubs. They primarily collect newspaper clippings regarding incidents with other clubs. On occasion, though, an Outlaws member will bribe a law enforcement officer to obtain information on the location of a rival club's members. Outlaws also travel, at the club's direction, to the funerals of fellow bikers."

What??? These seem like rumors with NO verifiable facts... I suggest that this entire section be removed, or backed up with sources. 03/24/2006

Regarding: " The Taunton, Massachusetts Club house was raided, but due to immunity of the Brockton club house nothing happened." WTF does that mean?98.176.116.13 (talk) 00:44, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

SS tattoo's

I question the statment that relates SS tatoo's to proof of a members violent history....the same thing was said of the Hells Angels, who also used the SS( "Filthy Few" in HAMC lexicon) symbol. The allegation that these tatoo's denoted certain criminal acts (murder etc.) in the HAMC has been widely discredited 195.7.34.195 10:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC) T.J. McKenzie It is used as a brand perse for the murder of a rival of any kind. I can assert that.

Patched over by the Outlaw's in 1977

Incorrect. Satan's Choice was being monitored with heavy law enforcement tactics during the mid 1990's particularly 1996/7. Satan's Choice was a very strong club in Ontario Canada during thsi period. They were not patched over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TacticalTemplar (talk • contribs) 13:50, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Removed on May 5, 2010. Please clarify if incorrect with sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TacticalTemplar (talk • contribs) 13:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Recent incidents entry

I added that in there because everything else in the article, as far as I can tell, is just rumor and speculation. Since that incident was so recent I knew I could put the link up to the story to verify it. Scoop 20:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Biggest Club?

This article states that the Outlaws MC is now the biggest outlaw biker club, but cites no proof. The Hells Angels would disagree.

Agreed. Also, "biggest" means different things to different clubs. Most number of members? Most number of chapters? Most number of countries with chapters?War (talk) 06:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

The Hells Angels would disagree but that doesn't make them right. They're dropping in membership and the Outlaws are growing quite fast. If they haven't surpassed them yet, they will soon. 72.154.166.199 (talk) 20:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hells dropping in membership? ROTFLOL! Can you cite any source for that claim? In Canada alone, prior to 1997 they had chapters only in two provinces (BC and Quebec - okay 3 if you count Thirteenth Tribe), having opened their first Canadian chapter in 1977 in Montreal (formerly this chapter were the original bad-ass Popeyes). The BC guys used to be Satan's Angels; they were patched over in 1983. In BC alone they went from 5 chapters and about 70 full patch in the mid-nineties to more than seven chapters and over 100 full patch less than 10 years later. Keep in mind quality is more important than quantity for HA, who make good use of associates; maybe not true for other clubs - example Canadian Bandidos (case in point the recent Shedden massacre). Plus you have to factor in all the former independent clubs who are now either full patch HA or affiliates all across the country. By the year 2000 the Canadian Hells Angels had patched over enough former independent or affiliate clubs to now have chapters or affiliates in at least nine of ten provinces and two of the three territories. Plus they are expanding into countries they've never had chapters in before. Worldwide membership is estimated at well over 3500 full patch; Outlaws claim what, 1700? So probably under 1000 in reality. True, membership ebbs and flows as the more hard core ones get killed or sent to prison and as the old guard die off, but there is no shortage of younger hangarounds and puppet clubs who can't wait to become full red and white. A more interesting study would be average lifespan of members of the two groups, or average tenure - i.e. how long on average do they stay as members? Which is more true HAFFA, or OFFO? Garth of the Forest (talk) 05:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Gang vs. Club

I reverted the change in category from Motorcycle Club to Motorcycle Gang. The Outlaws are, in fact, a motorcycle club. The term motorcycle gang has no concensus definition. Mmoyer 02:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Heloo, people this is a a trademarked item you are dictating here in Wiki. Outlaws Motorcycle Club is trademarked and recognized by the Federal Government as a legal Club.... You need to remove the gang reference.The Crips, Bloods, 813, etc are not trademarked...and are gangs... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.114.113.108 (talk) 23:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia's use of the Outlaws name is covered within fair use. If not, see WP:NLT. tedder (talk) 01:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Material

I removed gobs of unreferenced material from this article and have begun searches for refs to support some of the less outlandish claims. Mmoyer 03:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Unsolved Murder of John "Burrito" Klimes

Should a section also be included over the murder of Klimes? He was very prominent in the Lyons, Il chapter, and his murder has never been solved, though there is much specualtion. I remember 100's of bikers driving down 47th street in Brookfield, IL in 1981, when I was 10 years old. Nathraq 17:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikify

Anyone mind if I wikify the history section as per tag? Julia Rossi (talk) 08:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Similar

It is believed that the Pagans have similar restrictions on membership to those of the Hells Angels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.157.255 (talk) 16:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevent. This not an article about the Pagans or the Hells Angels. FYI: just about all OMG's have similiar restrictions on membership.War (talk) 06:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Call to Vote: Criminal Activity

In my opinion, the paragraphs inluding alleged detailed criminal activity needs to be removed or revamped.

A section of the page on alleged criminal activity, in a general fashoin, may be more professional than a crime by crime synopsis as we have on the page at the moment. I can see if an article is about one criminal, whose only claim to fame was crime. But in regards to a whole motorcycle club, listing various murders and others crimes seems out of place. anyone?Nathraq (talk) 17:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, one reason for including verifiable crimes in there would be to help establish whether they are a club or gang. tedder (talk) 18:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If the information is properly referenced, including multiple references that verify that it was a known member or members of the "club" who was (were) charged or convicted, and the crimes are noteworthy, then I vote that yes, by all means it should be included. Especially if RICO was applied, successfully or otherwise. Whitewashing is common on these outlaw biker articles, and should be discouraged. Garth of the Forest (talk) 05:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Allies

I removed Pagans as an ally. The Pagans and Outlaws are not really allies, at the least they might have an on/off relationship. They have been fighting each other in Pennsylvania for some time now. I think the only thing that they do share is a mutual hatred for the Hells Angels. The citation for the Pagans as allies links to a story about the Mongols allying with the Pagans, not the Outlaws allying with the Pagans.98.176.116.13 (talk) 00:48, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

It was sourced to some blog, which fails WP:RS, so it never should have been included in the first place.--Dbratland (talk) 02:09, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Tory politician was a former full patch Outlaw?

This edit is highly dubious. It's sourced to four articles, but in actuality it is one article with original reporting and 3 articles that parrot what the first article says. All they really have is photos of the subject associating with the Outlaws, wearing some emblems of one percenter culture. They assert that he is a full patch member but show no evidence whatsoever that he is any more than a hang around -- if that. Do two photos even prove you're a "hang around"? The articles imply that not only is he a full patch member, but that to be a full patch member you must have committed a crime. This is an egregious violation of Wikipedia's standards. Given that gossip doesn't belong on Wikipedia, what is any of this doing here? In what sense is this encyclopedic?

If these two photos turn out to be meaningful in any way, then reputable media outlets will no doubt report on it, and they'll include some facts. Until that happens, delete it. There should be no great hurry to spread negative claims about anybody. --Dbratland (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm less bothered about the intricacies of if/how/whether he is a full patch member, but having read Wikipedia:BLP#Presumption_in_favor_of_privacy, especially WP:NPF and WP:BLP1E I don't think it is appropriate at this point to add anything in the article about this individual. If the new story develops e.g. if he resigns or is ousted from his role then perhaps his inclusion should be revisited. For now though I have removed it. --Biker Biker (talk) 08:23, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

=Famous and infamous members

David Allen Coe was a patched Outlaw earlier in his life. He initially refused to play in any city that had a Hells Angels chapter. Sources for this are all over the net and print media. Photo with an Outlaw 1% shirt: http://today-is-their-birthday.blogspot.com/2010/09/outlaw-country-music-singer-david-allan.html. 98.176.233.118 (talk) 08:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)