Talk:French language

Edit request on 28 October 2012

Delete the sentence "French is spoken and understood by 23% of the UK population."

This ludicrous statistic has been in the article for far too long. As 178.99.10.14 notes above, the true figure is certainly much lower than that, for any reasonable interpretation of "spoken and understood". There is absolutely no way that 23% of the UK population can speak French with any degree of fluency. 23% probably know how to say "bonjour", and "deux bières s'il vous plaît", and a few more simple phrases.

86.160.221.121 (talk) 02:44, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Ludicrous or not (I found it surprising), the claim does have a reliable source. I have altered the wording to explicitly mention the source; this makes it strictly factual, whether it's accurate or not. Rivertorch (talk) 06:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. "Reliable" source or not, at some point common sense has to prevail. It is obvious that 23% of the UK population cannot "speak French" with anything resembling fluency. Any statistic that says they can is simply wrong. 86.160.221.121 (talk) 12:02, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I would guess that more than 50% of the UK population has, at some time, carried out a conversation in French, even if it was just a basic conversation as part of a qualification. I agree that less than 23% can speak French fluently. Rivertorch's modification warns the reader to take the figure with a pinch of salt, but, until we find alternative research, that's the best we can do. Languages of the United Kingdom clarifies the true situation. Should we link to that article? Dbfirs 17:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

As far as I can see, far from "clarifying" anything, Languages of the United Kingdom just repeats the same bollocks that "23% of the UK population can speak/understand French" and "French is understood by 23% of the country's population". I wish I could find a solid source to totally refute this nonsense. [1] says "fewer than one in 10 British workers could speak a foreign language, even to a basic level". With the emphasis on "basic level", I can believe that. I would guess possibly a third or a half of those cases would be French. 86.181.171.155 (talk) 04:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, then, why don't you try to find the sources mentioned on the BBC website? Unoffensive text or character (talk) 11:26, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, I used to think the same about the British people until I visited the UK in company of some French people (who didn't know English). To my surprise there were lots of people who addressed or replied us in French. Of course we cannot use this anecdote as a source but I guess that the folks who claim that very few Britons speak French have never tried to speak French with them. Also the new Eurobarometer survey from 2012 [2] (see also: [3]) seems to be more carefully conducted and in this one 19% of Britons claim that they can have a conversation in French. However, most of them say that their knowledge is basic and only 11% of Britons claim they can understand broadcast news in French. Aaker (talk) 02:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Gabon's missing in African section

Someone should correctly add Gabon to the enumeration where the African francophone countries are listed with their national flags. 159.51.236.11 (talk) 07:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done. Rivertorch (talk) 15:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 January 2013

Most proficient (and probably also native) French speakers in Brazil are, and probably were in all periods after the start of the Great Migration, Swiss, BTW it is nothing uncommon to people in Rio de Janeiro and Espírito Santo to have significant ammounts of Romand ancestry (as my 6,25%) as they are the 6th most numerous European immigrant group, after the Polish and before the Dutch. The number of Belgians is also historically very low, but they are not so diminute compared to the comparatively little French community.

I would also like to add that historically French was the language of culture and education for the Lusophone countries for the greatest span of time (to the extent it significantly influenced Portuguese vocabulary and perhaps phonology, more than Arabic or Basque), so Brazil, as Portugal, has a tradition in the learning of French as a foreign language. 177.157.206.247 (talk) 11:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. And please provide reliable sources for any proposed additions or alterations. Rivertorch (talk) 19:33, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

This is not all that necessary, as the change can be perfectly infered by logic, but anyway, as you wish...

"Also, the language was used by the community of French immigrants and expatriates in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries." -> "of Swiss, French and Belgian immigrants and expatriates".

The first paragraph does not need reliable sources at all (even because the entire section doesn't have any of them). Swiss Brazilian, French Brazilian, Belgian Brazilian, White Brazilian, Immigration to Brazil, European immigration to Brazil. It is an obvious fact that the Francophone presence in Brazil is mostly strong due to the Romand. See the French names in street plaques at cities such as Nova Friburgo.

About the influence of French as a foreign language in Brazil, just by inserting "língua francesa no brasil" at Google I found out www.gel.org.br/estudoslinguisticos/volumes/37/EL_V37N2_01.pdf http://w3.ufsm.br/revistaletras/artigos_r39/artigo39_001.pdf http://revistaescola.abril.com.br/historia/fundamentos/quais-influencias-pensamento-frances-ainda-podem-ser-vistas-brasil-471230.shtml http://www.cedep.ifch.ufrgs.br/oanodafrancanobrasilaimportanciadadiplomaciacultural.pdf

I wish to be inserted in a new paragraph "Brazil has a tradition in the learning of French as a foreign language due to its prominence as the main language of culture and education of the Western world for a relatively great span of time[, including the time of the formation of the identity of the country and its contemporary elite].[sources] [...]"

About the influence of French in Portuguese, well, http://oglobo.globo.com/boa-viagem/exposicao-no-museu-da-lingua-portuguesa-mostra-influencia-do-frances-na-nossa-lingua-3125512 (it says: "Neles, "trafegam", em todos os sentidos, palavras francesas incorporadas ao nosso vocabulário - são mais de cinco mil!", compared to a small ~1000 of Arabic in many more centuries of direct Moorish occupation), http://ressources-cla.univ-fcomte.fr/gerflint/Bresil_special2/couto.pdf http://www.filologia.org.br/revista/40/A%20INFLU%C3%8ANCIA%20DOS%20ESTRANGEIRISMOS.pdf, I know it is not a source but also http://br.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120131150414AAe5dGl (it is so well documented that the average person knows about it, a matter of knowing how to research).

In the same line, I wish "Portuguese also has a big deal of influence from French in vocabulary and phonology"; I know no source presented doesn't bother to go deep about phonology and all, but perhaps people from the Linguistics Project, WikiProjects of the Lusophone countries and the likes would help. It is already a good start. 177.157.206.247 (talk) 20:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm reopening your edit request in the hope that someone with more knowledge of the topic than I have will notice and evaluate it. If not, I'll take a stab at it, but in the meantime you might contact that WikiProject and ask for an assist. Rivertorch (talk) 07:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Article unprotected, and since nobody else has been able to you may want to make the change. Vacation9 14:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I've unprotected the article as it's been protected for quite some time, so we can essentially consider this request for protection answered. Feel free to request reprotection if the vandalism kicks off again. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 14:44, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Consistency within wikipedia

List of countries where French is an official language has 153 millions french native speakers combined, 120.5 millions in the countries where French is an official language, and 32.5 millions in other countries. Figures are from 2005, but this article has a figure two years later of 75 million. Huh? 82.141.67.203 (talk) 20:33, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in French language

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of French language's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "bbc.co.uk":

• From Equatorial Guinea: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13317174
• From Togo: BBC News – Togo country profile – Overview. Bbc.co.uk (2011-07-11). Retrieved on 2012-03-26.
• From Vlach language in Serbia: http://www.bbc.co.uk/romanian/news/story/2007/08/070817_vlahi_serbia_minoritate.shtml

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Huh? Equatorial Guinea, Togo and Serbia identical? The only thing they have in common is the BBC site, nothing else. They are different pages so I think they can't be combined. I'd leave those as they are. 82.141.67.203 (talk) 04:26, 8 March 2013 (UTC)