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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Coolninad (talk | contribs) at 08:55, 25 January 2021 (→‎2021 Inauguration Memes). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good article nomineeBernie Sanders was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 26, 2015Good article nomineeNot listed
August 28, 2015Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Bernie Sanders' voice

This voice file from Wikimedia Commons is of a speech that Bernie Sanders made in 2019, and it should be uploaded either in the infobox (like Ed Miliband's article) or at the bottom of the article (like A.C. Grayling's) to show his voice: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Senator_Bernie_Sanders%27s_Campaign_Speech_at_UNC-Chapel_Hill.wav Josharaujo1115 (talk) 16:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler lost both elections in 1932

The Nazis lost the German federal election in July 1932, and lost considerable support in the next election in November. The quotation is misleading and should be removed. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 00:05, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

According to July 1932 German federal election, with that election the Nazis became the largest party in Parliament, although they did not have an actual majority. I think it's arguably fair to describe this election as a Nazi "win". In any case it's not so far wrong as to need removal. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Nazis lost in July 1932, which is why there was another election in November. Hitler did not even win the rigged election in 1933, despite massive voter fraud. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 00:27, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
It's quite a stretch to describe the Nazis as "losing" that election when they wound up as the largest party in Parliament. And although they lost some seats in November, they were still the largest party. After all it is very rare in parliamentary governments for any party to win an actual majority. I don't know where you got the idea that Hitler "lost" that election, but it is not factual. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:32, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I studied Nazi Germany at degree level. It is well known that the Nazis lost both election in 1932. Hitler only became Chancellor because Hindenburg decided to appoint him in 1933. Hitler never won an election. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 00:33, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
Well, if you are complaining about Sanders saying that Hitler won the election, that quote is followed by a footnote that explains the situation. BTW, if the Nazis lost the election in 1932, who won? -- MelanieN (talk) 00:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody won, like in the 2010 and 2017 General Elections in the UK. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 00:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
So, everybody lost? Is that how you understand parliamentary elections? -- MelanieN (talk) 00:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would be OK to say the Nazis were the largest party, but they by no means won. Hindenburg could have continued to refuse to appoint Hitler as Chancellor until his death in August 1934. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 00:42, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Well, we have a footnote that says

Although Hitler lost the election for the presidency of Germany on March 13, 1932, when Hindenburg received 49.6% of the vote to Hitler's 30.1%,[1] the Nazi Party which was led by Hitler won a plurality in the July 1932 election for the Reichstag, Germany's lower house of parliament. The Nazi Party retained its status as the largest party thereafter.[2] :
Sources

  1. ^ Kessler, Glenn (August 28, 2015). "Why you shouldn't retweet Sanders's claim that Hitler 'won an election'". The Washington Post. Retrieved March 26, 2016.
  2. ^ Matthews, Dylan (August 28, 2015). "Sanders Gets History Right on Hitler's Rise to Power". Vox via Sen. Bernie Sanders's Official Website. Retrieved March 26, 2016.
I think that is a fair summary of the situation. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A senile Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor in 1933 only because Papen and others convinced him that they could control the Nazis in government. It had nothing to do with any elections as the Nazis lost both in 1932. Sanders' quotation is wrong and highly misleading, so it should be removed. (86.179.156.13 (talk) 03:31, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
This came up before. We don't fact check statements made by subjects of biographies, although we may (in some cases) report a fact check that specifically refers to the person. We usually say someone won an election if they end up as premier or chancellor. David Cameron in his first election and Theresa May for example failed to win majorities but in common speech we say they were elected, since they ended up serving as PM. Very few PMs have won a majority of the vote in the last 100 years. In fact, prime ministers are not elected, they are appointed by the Queen on the basis that they can command the confidence of the legislature, which is how Hitler came to power. After his appointment, a majority of legislators voted him absolute power. Note also that U.S. presidents are not elected by the people, but by an electoral college. Nonetheless, before the electoral college had voted, the article on Joe Biden said he won the last election. TFD (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Biden hasn't won until 6 January. Cameron lost in 2010 and May lost in 2017. The Nazis rigged the election in 1933. (86.154.234.233 (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
There were two elections in 1933. In the first, the Nazis gained the most seats and Hitler became chancellor. The second election was indeed rigged, but it wasn't what Sanders was referring to. Otherwise a lot of the terminology used in reliable sources is inexact. Can you really for example say that someone lost an election, when there were 650 separate elections held in each constituency? Is there any specific reason why you chose this article to begin your corrections? TFD (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Nazis lost the March 1933 election, despite it being rigged: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election Sanders' quotation is so blatantly wrong and offensive that I feel it should be removed entirely. The German people never voted Hitler into power. (86.178.202.96 (talk) 00:35, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
Sure they did, they gave the Nazis the largest share of votes. Do you want to add a footnote stating that the German people did not elect Hitler but gave the Nazis the largest share of the vote? Zloyvolsheb (talk) 00:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are two problems with your edit: (1) Synthesis. You would need a source that says Sanders was wrong. (2) Weight. you would then have to show that this criticism was significant. I don't know why his remarks would be offensive. All parties in the legislature except the SDP and KPD voted to give Hitler dictatorial power in the Enabling Act of 1933. Together, these parties won almost 70% of the vote. So unless you voted SDP or KDP, you were voting directly or indirectly for Hitler. TFD (talk) 02:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The March 1933 election was massively rigged, and the Nazis still failed to win a majority. They had lost considerable support in November 1932 in the final free election. (86.178.202.96 (talk) 03:11, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
So what? Unless you can find a source that says that Sanders was wrong, we can't even consider adding the information. TFD (talk) 03:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even when I was studying Nazi Germany for GCSEs my teacher said Hitler never won an election, and that it was President Hindenburg's choice to appoint him as Chancellor in 1933. (86.178.202.96 (talk) 03:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]
So what? Unless you can find a source that says that Sanders was wrong, we can't even consider adding the information. Also, all parties in the legislature except the SDP and KPD voted to give Hitler dictatorial power in the Enabling Act of 1933. Together, these parties won almost 70% of the vote. So unless you voted SDP or KDP, you were voting directly or indirectly for Hitler. Had they not done that, Hitler would have just been another chancellor. TFD (talk) 05:48, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Nazis rigged the March 1933 election. The Nazis still lost the election and needed a coalition partner. (86.178.202.74 (talk) 08:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

So what? Unless you can find a source that says that Sanders was wrong, we can't even consider adding the information. If you want to persuade the world that Hitler lost the election, this isn't the place to start. TFD (talk) 11:33, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the final multi-party election in March 1933 the Nazis registered a large increase in votes. However, despite waging a campaign of terror against their opponents, they only tallied 43.9 percent of the vote, well short of a majority. They needed the votes of their coalition partner, the German National People's Party (DNVP), for a bare working majority in the Reichstag. (81.147.63.239 (talk) 10:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]
Again, unless you can find a source that says that Sanders was wrong, we can't even consider adding the information. Per no synthesis, we cannot take what Sanders said and what we know about the election of Hitler, conclude Sanders was wrong and add it to the article. We could only do it if news media decided to fact check what he said and came to that conclusion. That's because Wikipedia as an encyclopedia does not analyze but merely summarizes the conclusions that have been reported. So it really doesn't matter whether Sanders was right or wrong, what matters is what whether reliable sources reported that he was right or wrong. TFD (talk) 11:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sanders was wrong: https://lobelog.com/no-hitler-did-not-come-to-power-democratically/ (81.147.63.239 (talk) 23:52, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]
Again, you would need a source that specifically mentions Sanders. That is Wikipedia policy and we're not going to make an exception for you in this article. If you don't like it, get the policy changed or go to another website to argue your case. TFD (talk) 00:22, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This editor is now trolling and it is time to stop feeding it. Gandydancer (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2020

I asked this before in the talk section of the article (I apologize if that's a problem), but I was thinking it would be good to add this voice file of Bernie Sanders giving a speech to his article: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Senator_Bernie_Sanders%27s_Campaign_Speech_at_UNC-Chapel_Hill.wav ——— I see this on the articles for Ed Miliband and A.C. Grayling, and thought it would be appropriate given how notable Sanders is for his rhetoric and tone.Josharaujo1115 (talk) 22:27, 30 December 2020 (UTC) Josharaujo1115 (talk) 22:27, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To editor Josharaujo1115:  done, the voice is in the ibox. Thank you very much and Happy New Year! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 01:19, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To editor Paine Ellsworth: Thank you so much!! I wish you a great New Year too :) Josharaujo1115 (talk) 19:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did You Know Fact

The Did You Know? fact says Bernie was the first socialist mayor in New England since Jasper McLevy. However the article for Bernie says he was a Social Democrat not a Socialist. So why does the Did You Know? section call him a Socialist? Ewf9h-bg (talk) 21:07, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sanders Israel position

The article distort Sanders positions on Israel and Israel conflicts.

The article on his political positions states : Sanders supports a two-state solution, saying that "the Palestinian people, in my view, deserve a state of their own, they deserve an economy of their own, they deserve economic support from the people of this country. And Israel needs to be able to live in security without terrorist attacks."War and Peace Archived September 6, 2015, at the Wayback Machine, Bernie Sanders, Senate website

While this article describes him as anti-israel. This is wrong as Sanders expressed his support for Israel ( and even supported Israel by working in a kibbutz) and claim that his criticism target only the "right wing government". He actually does not criticize Israel but criticize the wars and conflicts and the lack of a peace process.

Regarding AIPAC his comment is just one tweet, not all his thought. This article gives it too much weight and presents it as his main and only opinion. However Sanders wanted to be part of AIPAC conference at several occasions.

Please don't distort political views for propaganda purpose, thank you. --Vanlister (talk) 10:51, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanlister:, where does the article descrine him as "anti-Israel"? He has criticized Israel, that doesn't make him anti-Israel. The article mentions the time on the kibbutz. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:18, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's what is understandable when you read that he only support "Palestinian rights" and has criticized Israel. I also think that adding a tweet about AIPAC is undue, as it is cherry picking between his many tweets and AIPAC comments.

Add that Sanders support Israel. For example few 2020 declarations : https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/views-on-israel-of-u-s-presidential-candidates-2020-bernie-sanders

As a kid, I spent time in Israel. I am not in- anti-Israel. I will do everything I can to protect the independence and the security and the freedom of the Israeli people. But [...] So, I am pro-Israel. I am pro-Palestinian. (“Face the Nation,” March 1, 2020)

The Israeli people have the right to live in peace and security. So do the Palestinian people [...] (@BernieSanders, February 23, 2020)

I have a connection to Israel going back many years. In 1963, I lived on a kibbutz near Haifa. It was there that I saw and experienced for myself many of the progressive values upon which Israel was founded. I think it is very important for everyone, but particularly for progressives, to acknowledge the enormous achievement of establishing a democratic homeland for the Jewish people after centuries of displacement and persecution. --Vanlister (talk) 13:53, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We should begin by saying that he supports the Two-state solution: “Israel has a right to exist in security, and at the same time the Palestinians have a state of their own.”[1] His other views follow from this: opposition to the West bank settlements, moving the embassy to Jerusalem opposition to terrorism. His position is entirely moderate. We really don't need a lot of detail about specific comments on various events. TFD (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would not say his political positions are necessarily moderate, but I fully support your proposal. There is no room for interpretation and cherry picking.--Vanlister (talk) 21:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Inauguration Memes

Which one should we use that can make it through Commons copyright criteria as 4.0? Charles Juvon (talk) 17:34, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I now see the original image of Bernie is attributed to Getty by the NYT Charles Juvon (talk) 18:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Even if one were to argue the memes are a derivative work that could be fair use, we already have lots of Bernie pics and the memes, while hilarious, are not encyclopedic. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would think Bernie and Forest Gump (on the bench) are two copyright violations. I didn't see any of these recent memes on Commons. Charles Juvon (talk) 19:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Its already very late, its now a high time we add section on 2021 Inauguration meme section in main page

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