Talk:Ezra Miller

They?

WP:SOAPBOX ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 17:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Are we really going to fucking refer to a single person as "they?" Insanity. 2A03:C5C0:107E:7501:D893:256:8E7C:54CA (talk) 14:14, 26 May 2022 (UTC) Yes.Unbh (talk) 17:24, 26 May 2022 (UTC) I understand that this is the current cause celebré but I have to say as far as reading the article it makes it entirely confusing. Is there a way to cut back on pronoun usage and use they’s proper name to make for easier reading? 71.190.233.44 (talk) 13:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC) This would not be an issue to take up here, because current Wikipedia policy is that singular they is acceptable in the same manner as "she" and "he". --Roundish ⋆tc) 21:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC) Pronoun preference should definitely be respected, but it's not unreasonable to use names instead for clarity. Singular they can be clumsy and unclear.Unbh (talk) 03:11, 10 June 2022 (UTC) No, "pronoun preference" should definitely not be respected when it contradicts the requirements of grammar, for the same reason that "height preference" should not determine how one reports the height of a person. Miller is a guy. The pronouns for referring to guys are "he," "him," "his." Using "they" etc. with respect to a singular is excusable, if it is, only when the antecedent is indefinite and could be either a male or a female. Wikipedia should correct its absurd policy. 2601:844:4180:BE70:D82:D944:FE83:5238 (talk) 22:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC) I dislike the use of singular they. But if it's about respect for a person or respect for grammar then respect for the person wins out. Language, including grammar, is an evolving thing, Unbh (talk) 04:30, 11 June 2022 (UTC) The 'they' thing is so played out. He's a guy, just say 'he'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:5205:FC00:1C7C:778:C769:EBBD (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2022 (UTC) That of course is the accepted point of view. But since in this case "they" refers to a single person, "they *are*" with a plural verb cannot be correct. You should say, "they is." The acceptable contraction is they's, e. g. "They's very concerned with their pronouns." Wastrel Way (talk) Eric No, singular "they" has been used with "are" for centuries, for example: Who's that shadowy figure in the distance? What are they doing? OrangeCroutons (talk) 23:01, 21 October 2022 (UTC) While it may be acceptable it makes for clumsy reading and is confusing. I’m not suggesting get rid of the pronoun preference altogether, merely stating that the article would read better with the use of proper name as opposed to pronoun in many cases to increase readability. 71.190.233.44 (talk) 21:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC) Exactly this, which is why I returned the last pronoun edits to Miller since using names is obviously clearer in that context. Unbh (talk) 03:50, 11 June 2022 (UTC) "singular they is acceptable", there is no such thing as a singular "they". This is insane world. In 1990 none of this existed. It's a social contagion. So many young people are being destroyed. WIKIPEDIA should not encourage this, it's is causing 1000s of suicides. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/14/more-than-half-of-transgender-male-adolescents-attempt-suicide-study-says/ Disciple4lif (talk) 07:45, 6 August 2022 (UTC) For the Ezra article they should refer to him as "it". That's singular. Disciple4lif (talk) 07:52, 6 August 2022 (UTC) I agree. There needs to be some serious discussion about this, because the current "solution" of referring to a single individual in the plural form is less than ideal to put it mildly. Adriano 7 (talk) 12:44, 16 June 2022 (UTC) There are more important things to discuss seriously than the preferred pronouns of minor celebrities and the consequent readability of wikipedia BLPs! It's 2022, how are we still arguing over singular 'they'? The word has been used as a singular pronoun literally for centuries. Shakespeare had this figured out ya'll. This very website has an article about its use since the 14th century. Language also changes. Look at 'you' and our usage of thy, thine, and thou. This insistence on they being "only plural" is not only grammatically *incorrect* it's just a flimsy excuse to be disrespectful. JuniBug (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2022 (UTC) Singular they has only been a thing for a long time in certain contexts/usages though. It has expanded recently and, as you say, maybe the language usage surrounding it needs to change too. I think using "they is" etc. should be preferred for singular they. 64.72.57.87 (talk) 01:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC) You will be pleased to hear that some 99.%+ of all people don't use they/them pronouns, so this will have virtually no impact on your existence. Have a nice day. Cortador (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2022 (UTC) This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ezra Miller article. This is not a forum for debating Wikipedia policies that apply to all articles. -- Pemilligan (talk) 17:29, 16 June 2022 (UTC) What has this world come to? I literally came to this article to find out if "Ezra" is a boy's or a girls name. NOWHERE in the article is it to be found whether he is a man or a woman and I had to google to find out that he is a man! This is madness. rayukk | talk 01:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC) Luckily there's an article on the name that will help - Ezra (name). But to summarise for you, it's a name for everyone! Unbh (talk) 04:00, 28 June 2022 (UTC) It is the form of address they prefer, please respect their choice. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 07:54, 6 August 2022 (UTC) I thought I was missing something. Who else are they talking about? Please just stop. It makes the article unreadable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.96.67.88 (talk) 01:08, 9 August 2022 (UTC) It would be less confusing to simply use the person's name in place of any pronouns, no matter how many times the name is repeated. Arcanicus (talk) 20:04, 11 August 2022 (UTC) User:Arcanicus, I agree that some uses of they, which can be more ambiguous than she or he, could be converted to Miller. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 20:10, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Really confusing read with all the messed up grammar. I realize that transgender people exist, but factually referring to them (BLP violation removed) defeats the intended purpose of an encyclopedia. The man is clearly a man, so why the ambiguous usage of "they"? I understand singular they can be used in certain contexts, but in this one we know the person is a male, so introducing the ambiguity just makes things more confusing to the reader. What is the intention behind this? There could easily be a section explaining (BLP violation removed) instead of the weird playing along with it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.164.223 (talk) 21:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Delusion? Wikipedia talk page does not exist to announce your bigotry. There is no "gender confusion" and you need to grow up. This talk page is to discuss edits, not cry because you are a bigot that doesn't understand reality. If you can't respect choices, such as pronouns, that do not harm you in any way, shape, or form, then keep your mouth shut and move along. Your transphobia and hatred is not needed here, or anywhere else. JuniBug (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC) Of course it shouldn't be using the subject's own choice of pronouns. This drivel makes the articles (plural because this is going on all over the place) unreadable, confusing, inaccurate and hard to read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.210.240.179 (talk) 00:23, 10 September 2022 (UTC) I was so confused reading this. I saw "they" in the first paragraphs and stood there for 5 minutes wondering who 'they' were. Cause standard English grammar. This isn't even about transgenderism it's about proper writing lol. I know it exists but I relegate that to Twitter and misc internet fringes. Not (supposedly) respectable encyclopedias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:147:C200:83A0:506A:A369:67B0:5BFD (talk) 16:00, 28 September 2022 (UTC) I'm confused, if you're worried about grammar, what is the problem here? Singular they has existed for centuries. As stated before, this wiki has an article on that very thing. Please learn about proper English grammar, and its history, before commenting on it. It's obvious you're uneducated on the subject. JuniBug (talk) 17:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Actor

why is Ezra Miller an actor when they don't define as male?

Because they act...Unbh (talk) 11:03, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

In the future, could we just remove anything along these lines? --Roundish ⋆tc) 15:21, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Actor is a term that can refer to any gender. Google and learn the term before spouting nonsense Justfreddy93 (talk) 14:16, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

plural for verbs

One can use whatever pronouns wishes, but a single person is one person, therefore whatever pronoun one might have, it is singular. English grammar uses singular for verbs when referring to a single individual. Imagine saying "An individual uses pronoun they, but they also use pronoun their. <- This sentence is talking about the same person or a different people? Grammar should be consistent. For example:

• Miller IS set to play the character
• They areIS set to play the character

Or:

• Miller uses they/them pronouns

should NOT be converted to:

• They use they/them pronouns

but to

• They uses they/them pronouns

We are not talking about multiple personality disorders here. The article is written in standard English, therefore standard English grammar rules should apply here. Pronoun preference does not mean that one sentence the action is done by a single entity, while the next sentence there are suddenly multiple entities doing said action. It is pretty sensible to assume that they in Miller's case is a singular pronoun, just like it and zir are.

2A02:2F0B:B20D:2700:1C18:AC45:9356:57EE (talk) 21:46, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Please calm down. You are complaining about English grammar, not the article itself, so this whole thing you are ranting about? - it is off-topic. At least in my opinion.

You are going to get nowhere down this avenue, because this isn't going to be changed, not before English is. --Roundish ⋆tc) 22:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

The poster is referring to proper English grammar. If using singular "they" then the verb is singular (as in Ezra's case), if using plural "they" (referring to multiple people) then the verb is plural. By using a plural verb with what should be a singular "they" then you are both misgendering Ezra and breaking grammar. Please stop advocating for misgendering Ezra. Also, this is not off-topic as that is pertinent to this article. — al-Shimoni (talk) 16:05, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

@Imeriki al-Shimoni, current English grammar is that the verb is plural... regardless of whether "they" is used as singular or plural. --Roundish ⋆tc) 22:43, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

This complaint is illiterate twaddle. Singular they has been in use for centuries, and it has always taken plural verbs. Example: "I don't know the person who lives upstairs, but they sure like to play their music loud." This sentence starts out in the singular, and makes it clear that we are talking about one person; however, it switches to singular they in the second clause, because the gender of the subject is unknown, and the second verb naturally takes the plural form. It would sound pretty strange if we replaced the 'like' with 'likes'. We're not going to start contorting the English language because some folk don't like the idea of people expressing a preference for singular they. Girth Summit _(blether) 23:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I hope this discussion (if we can even call it that) is done now. --Roundish ⋆tc) 23:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I imagine it's only a matter of time before people start giving their preferred verbs. That'll make it much easier! Unbh (talk) 02:46, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, singular they has been in use for centuries, but people only used it if the person they were referring to was unknown. Shakespeare would have never said or written "I ran into Ezra Miller today. They looked pretty messed up." Marrakech (talk) 21:49, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3

Though Shakespeare's women were boys dressed as girls, so he may or may not be the example you want here. Unbh (talk) 01:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

That's utterly irrelevant.★Trekker (talk) 00:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

No, it's not, not when people make arguments to Shakespeare and Dickens about this sort stuff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbh (talk • contribs) 03:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes it is. Also sign your comments.★Trekker (talk) 11:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

. No, it's not.Unbh (talk) 11:52, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

More legal issues

I don't have time right now to evaluate whether to add this to one of the current sub-sections or start another, but this just came out today: Guns, Bullets, and Weed: Ezra Miller Housing Three Young Children and Their Mother at Vermont Farm - Sources claim the living conditions at the Flash star’s farm are unsafe for children, alleging there are weapons lying around and that a one-year-old put a loose bullet in her mouth. June 23, 2022 11:54AM ET, by Cheyenne Roundtree. As with the last Rolling Stone piece, it's being picked up by various news outlets. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:24, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2022

The following line: “ Since 2022, Miller has been the subject of several incidents relating to disorderly…” should be changed to “Since 2011”

The legal issues section of ezra millers page literally contradicts the above line: “ On June 28, 2011, in the midst of filming The Perks of Being a Wallflower, Miller was a passenger in a vehicle that was pulled over in Pittsburgh for a broken brake light; police discovered twenty grams of marijuana in Miller's possession”

An edit to say “Since 2011” would resolve this conflicting information. Justfreddy93 (talk) 14:06, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: A marijuana rap isn't the same as disorderly conduct, or grooming allegations. It appears the serious stuff started in 2022. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2022

The entry is grammatically incorrect by using "they are" when referring to a singular person. "Are" is properly used only for plural subjects. Correct grammar in this instance is "they is." 2603:300A:1D00:3400:D1B1:24BD:DEE6:5AA2 (talk) 20:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: [2] When “they” is the subject of a sentence, “they” takes a plural verb regardless of whether “they” is meant to be singular or plural. For example, write “they are,” not “they is.” The singular “they” works similarly to the singular “you”—even though “you” may refer to one person or multiple people, in a scholarly paper you should write “you are,” not “you is.” ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Ambiguity

I think that I understand this passage, but I do find it pretty hard to follow.

"In 2018, Miller showed support for the #MeToo movement and revealed a personal experience concerning a Hollywood producer and a director, both of whom were left unnamed: "They gave me wine and I was underaged. They were like, 'Hey, want to be in our movie about gay revolution?' And I was like, 'No, you guys are monsters.'" Later that year, they announced that they were in a polyamorous relationship with multiple people, including their bandmates in the rock band Sons of an Illustrious Father."

While I have no particular issue with us using the singular they in a case like this, I think it does require some special attention to be paid to issues of ambiguity. In this paragraph, the quote from Miller uses the pronoun 'they' in the traditional sense in that it refers to two people: a producer and a director. But then we suddenly switch (I believe) to using the singular they to refer to Ezra Miller. For a moment, I thought we were continuing the use of plural they and that the Hollywood producer and the director had announced that they (the two of them) were in a polyamorous relationship, etc.

I thought at first to simply change the final sentence to begin "Later that year, Miller announced..." but it actually still leaves the problem. Did Miller announce that the producer and director were in a polyamorous relationship?

Just to avoid any unwelcome political/moral debate here I'll just note that the same kind of ambiguity can easily occur with traditional use of he/she pronouns - it's just that it's easier to fix in no small part because people are so accustomed to it. As per a comment further up the talk page, about "they is" or "they are" - this relatively new and relatively rare usage gives rise to some grammatical puzzles that require a bit more effort. Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Maybe it would help to split the paragraph into two, or completely rephrase the problematic sentence: "Miller entered a polyamorous relationship later that year, which also included the actor's bandmates". —VersaceSpace 🌃 16:58, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Ezra Miller burglary

Is the burglary in Vermont notable enough to be put in the article? The Hollywood Reporter and Variety have both released articles about it.60isanumber (talk) 23:21, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

CNBC and LA Times too, it is significant. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 04:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Pronouns make it confusing

Why does it say they or thier when it should be he or she? It makes the reading of information confusing to the reader. Once you do figure it out the context of the information. It sounds like the web page has labeled this person as schizophrenic, or that the reader is? 72.85.202.186 (talk) 11:44, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Please read the first note in the article and MOS:NB. Nthep (talk) 11:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah OK but it's still extremely confusing. THEY and THEIR are not pronouns and they never will be. THEY refers to groups or sets. THEIR implies contextual ownership. Words matter. Words actually mean things. Language matters. Language [and grammar, by extension] is vastly more important than the passing trends or phases of popular culture; especially when those trends and phases result in an intense degree of over-correction. Ezra Miller is a man who presents as male in every single possible facet of social and visual determination. He's a man who should be referred to as him. Clearly it's not happening today, but at some point we have to stop kowtowing to this very vocal but very small minority of people who militantly demand the rest of us adopt this utter bastardization of the English lexicon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C42:7900:2F:14:41D2:7237:42D5 (talk) 17:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

"They" and "Their" are pronouns. Check literally any dictionary. Stormx2 (talk) 23:30, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

lol @ "THEY and THEIR are not pronouns". -sche (talk) 23:33, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Definition of "they" on Google: "used to refer to a person whose gender or sexual identity does not correspond to the traditional binary opposition of male and female". Sorry, you can believe what you'd like but English prevails. —VersaceSpace 🌃 23:43, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

The use of they and their pronouns do indeed make the article unclear. This idea of indivudals choosing their own pronouns is ideological and related to the insanity of parts of postmodernism (control of language ideas, and power)--in a sane society pronouns are chosen by others as anaphors for a previous sentence in which the person was named. The pronouns are a communication between the writer (or speaker) and the reader--and should be understood by both. Academicskeptic9 (talk) 09:11, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Tokata Iron Eyes

"Her parents also alleged in court documents that Miller had caused bruises on their child's body and that Miller had manipulated their child to believe she is transgender."

I can't find anything asserting that the parents said that Miller had "manipulated their child to believe she is transgender", one source has Tokata's social media account quoted as *refuting* her parents allegations as being transphobic. Additionally, Tokata Iron Eyes wikipedia page suggests her/their father has identified them as nonbinary. So it'd seem these two pages contradict. I think we should either try to source this claim, or remove it, or at the bear minimum place a citation needed after it. 5.68.219.54 (talk) 13:03, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Either way their request for a permanent protective order was dismissed as detailed in this Vanity Fair article: https://web.archive.org/web/20220918145003/https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/09/inside-ezra-millers-dark-spiral-messiah-delusions?client_service_id=31204&utm_social_type=owned&service_user_id=1.78e+16&client_service_name=vanity%20fair&supported_service_name=instagram_publishing

Any reason this isn't in the article yet? 72.80.0.8 (talk) 00:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Wanted fugitive?

Sorry, but wasn't Ezra Miller wanted by the police after eloping with Tokata Iron Eyes? Her parents put out a report that Miller had groomed, brainwashed and abducted her after which I've read elsewhere the police asked Miller to turn himself in and in response he left a taunt for them on his Instagram page saying "You can't find me, I'm in another universe." Instagram have subsequently deleted his account but if Miller was a fugitive from justice but was then identified as living in Vermont then why has he only just now been arrested after his act of burglary? --The Moderationater (talk) 12:26, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Ezra Miller has never been wanted by the police, it was a lie made up on social media. They have never had a relationship with Tokata Iron Eyes, who is gay, and certainly never eloped with her.

The lie about Ezra taunting police on Instagram comes from a single blogger, it has no truth to it. Ezra shared memes from their girlfriend at the time, and they were aimed at friends on Instagram who had sold Miller out to the press with libellous stories. 92.19.43.245 (talk) 00:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Inaccurate report of Miller' rep declaration about choking incident

As it is written right now on Wikipedia it seems that the rep says that "the strangulation was a spontaneois reaction" while Miller’s rep says that the choking was not a choking nor a strangulation, but “a spontaneous reaction” during which the actor “went at her collarbone.” after having been baited by “a group of teens” about their mixed martial arts skills. Quote from Variety article: Miller’s rep says the actor was baited by “a group of teens” about their mixed martial arts skills. She claims the choking was not a choking but “a spontaneous reaction” during which the actor “went at her collarbone.” Akatty (talk) 15:14, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

This needs to be fixed, agreed 72.80.0.8 (talk) 04:35, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Introduction

The intro regarding their controversies seems a little messy. Not sure we need the bit about them identifying as Jesus, Satan etc as this is alleged at the current time. Could we also clean up the sentence structure of the controversy section? It states 2022, but Miller has caused issues since 2020 plus the list seems unnecessarily long and convoluted, mixing up their actual arrests (burglary, disorderly conduct) with allegations (kidnapping, grooming). I think all is important but just needs cleaning up Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 22:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Bottomlivefan95: The stuff about Jesus, the Messiah and the devil is extremely strange and notable. behavior and therefore deserves mention in the opening. It doesn't matter if it's from one article, it's from one article that's been widely quoted by many other important and reputable news sources. Same for the grooming controversies. Our job is not to save Miller's reputation. Think about it: most of the attention Miller has received for some time has been about child grooming and now Messianic stuff. We need to mention this in the opener.MagicatthemovieS (talk)MagicatthemovieS

Hi there, thanks for your response!

Please don’t think I am trying to save Miller’s reputation. That is certainly not my intent! I would argue the attention (at least from mainstream media and the general public) have been for Miller’s violent behaviour and the kidnapping controversy a few months ago. Everything else is covered in the controversy section. I am definitely open to discussion on the inclusion of the allegations of child grooming but I think the messianic identification can stay in the controversy section for a while, unless wording can be changed to ‘Miller has faced allegations of grooming and cult-like behaviour’? How does that sound? That way it’s not too wordy and everything is included? Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 06:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

There is no kidnapping controversy, it was literally made up on social media and was never in any allegations or reported to any law. 92.19.43.245 (talk) 00:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Bottomlivefan95: I think "cult-like behavior" does not portray the strangeness of the situation. I would much prefer we mention that Miller is claiming to be Jesus, the devil, and the next Messiah.MagicatthemovieS (talk)MagicatthemovieS

The strangeness of the situation isn’t necessary for the opening lines of the article and I do not believe the allegations of them identifying as Jesus, The Devil and The messiah is relevant enough for the opening paragraph. This is merely a factual article on Miller and the introduction is meant to give a clear and concise run through of their relevance in their field and to culture as a whole. Hope this makes sense. I suggest we wait a couple of days to see if any other contributor wishes to have an input and if not, we can pass this on to a moderator. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 13:11, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Bottomlivefan95: I disagree with your opinion but I believe you are handling this matter in a mature and fair manner.MagicatthemovieS (talk)MagicatthemovieS

MagicatthemovieS, I think you're inadvertently signing your comments with five tildes instead of four. That means that no timestamp is added, which breaks some things. To sign, simply end your comment with this: ~~~~. Thank you! Madeline (part of me) 17:20, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

There is actually not much factual in this article at all, it is a rehash of lies sold to gosdip media by Lauren Turner (Ezra’s lying stalker,) Chase Iron Eyes - who used these lies for an extortion scam on WBD, and Cazanova Turner, the Hawaiian ex of Ezra’s then girlfriend. He was trying to force the State to take her children, so not only did he, a domestic abuser, lie to rolling stone etc, he lied to police and the CPS. 92.19.43.245 (talk) 00:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much Magicatthemovies, I really appreciate that. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 18:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I think that the many charges and concerns about Miller's behaviour, going on for years now, are notable enough for the lede. I don't think the paragraph about grooming and the wild claims he's making about himself should have been removed from the lede. Unless there are more substantial arguments against it, I am going to put it back. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi CorbieVreccan, thanks for your input. We were discussing the matter and trying to avoid an ‘edit war’ so it would have been more appreciated if you hadn’t gone straight to editing the article. Also, Miller didn’t claim after the apology to be Jesus, The Devil and the Messiah - this was from an article detailing the events leading up to his statement and isn’t a direct quote from Miller. As I have stated before, I don’t believe this is relevant enough for the lede so I will remove it. However, if you wish to re-add - I would suggest rewording it so it correctly follows the timeline of the events which unfolded. I once again do suggest that this bit be changed to cult-like behaviour as this will encompass all factors: Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Bottomlivefan95: you are the one edit warring with multiple people. You don't have consensus for reverting everyone else here. I suggest you stop with the reverts. If you think there's a problem I missed with the timeline, adjust the timeline, don't cut the content. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 22:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I have restored a pre-revert-war version. I strongly suggest you leave it alone until and unless a different consensus emerges. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 22:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi CorbieVreccan,

There is no need to be rude. I was not ‘edit warring with multiple people’, I was having a discussion on both this page and their talk page on this article’s introduction - as well as asking for input from others. I do not appreciate being treated as if I had broken rules. If I had been outvoted, I would have very happily stood down and I frequently offered suggestions on a middle ground. Your stern tone is unneeded and unnecessary. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 22:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @CorbieVreccan,

There is no need to be rude. I was not ‘edit warring with multiple people’, I was having a discussion on both this page and their talk page on this article’s introduction - as well as asking for input from others. I do not appreciate being treated as if I had broken rules. If I had been outvoted, I would have very happily stood down and I frequently offered suggestions on a middle ground. Your stern tone is unneeded and unnecessary. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 22:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Let's all try to stay civilMagicatthemovieS (talk) 22:48, 21 September 2022 (UTC)MagicatthemovieS

It is among it's preferred pronouns.

"According to a former resident of Miller's farm in Vermont, Miller believes that people criticize their relationship with Iron Eyes because..."

Whose relationship? Miller's? The former resident? The nebulous people? Why is it so difficult to clearly communicate this person's wrongdoing, and why are we obligated to enhance that difficulty?

If the objective is to cause confusion and division, "their" is fine but the objective is to aggregate a compendium of human knowledge... we should at least be writing the article in a way that it's possible to glean knowledge from it.

It's my personal opinion that the human called Miller wants it to be difficult to clearly discuss it's actions and I'm only just now realizing that it also plays directly into it's goals to do it the way that it wants. You cant criticize someone if you cant effectively communicate about them.

Ultimately, I understand that my words will have no impact on the dogma but just be aware that at least 1 person got halfway through reading about grooming allegations before giving up out of frustration with the unintelligible grammar. 172.103.176.90 (talk) 19:35, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I know what he she they 172.103.176.90 (talk) means.

I know what that [i.e., "that" = what 172.103.176.90 (talk) said] means.

He She They 172.103.176.90 (talk) makes a good point. My preferred lede:

Ezra Matthew Miller (born September 30, 1992) is an American actor. Their whose feature film debut was in Afterschool (2008), which they followed by starring followed by starring roles in the drama We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) and The Perks of Being a Wallflower (2012).

And so on.

Please, ladies and gentlemen everyone, be courteous and nimble in your editing without sacrificing grammatical cogency. I'm holding my breath while I await the next wave of preference that pillories any mention of human or person, etc. Kent Dominic·(talk) 14:24, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

They, them run amok

From the Personal life section: "In 2010, Miller dated Zoë Kravitz while they ["they" = Miller and Kravitz, or just Kravitz? or just Miller?] were filming Beware the Gonzo. Miller became engaged to Erin, a woman they ["they" = Miller and Kravitz, or just Miller?] began dating in 2016, but called it off after a spiritual adviser told them ["them" = Miller and Kravitz, or just Miller? or just Erin? or Miller and Erin?] that she was a "parasite". Kent Dominic·(talk) 15:04, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely correct--using they/them for this man is just postmodern insanity. Academicskeptic9 (talk) 09:13, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Singular they

Activists that have hurried to lock the article after introducing grammatical errors should educate themselves with the suggested reading: Singular they. The article currently reads like someone had an epileptic seizure. 2A02:2F0E:D70D:1D00:4870:D60A:77CF:CB59 (talk) 19:13, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Using queer when queer isn't wanted

Miller didn't "come out as queer" if Miller doesn't use the word "queer." It plainly states this in the article, so don't say Miller did something that Miller didn't do. Surprisingly, not everyone wants to jump on the "let's call it queer now" bus. 2603:6080:EF05:973B:D83B:A713:7301:3C68 (talk) 22:22, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

After looking at the cited articles in that section, I added a clarification. Funcrunch (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Pronoms

Mixing conventional pronouns with individually chosen pronouns adds to the confusion surrounding English language use. Is what is important is communicating preference, why not use "he (N)" to denote the person who considered their gender neutral. Then at least we can also communicate the singular without confusion. 2806:102E:3:4385:5C66:963B:3D30:ED54 (talk) 12:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

This is a policy question, not for this page. As far as this page is concerned, we may usefully seek to reduce the ambiguity associated with using they’s preferred pronoun. That would be far more productive than sterile debate here. Good wishes to all, Springnuts (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2022

change pronouns from they/them/their to he/him/his as ezra miller is an adult male so those are the correct pronouns 94.175.156.79 (talk) 18:22, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: see MOS:GENDERID Cannolis (talk) 18:41, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: See Gender neutral language and Singular they. Your lack of familiarity with these issues does not require changes to the subject's pronouns. General Ization ^Talk 19:31, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2023

The last section in controversies has a broken source link, the vanity fair reference. The current URL goes to a 405. Here is the correct URL

https://web.archive.org/web/20220922021200/https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/09/inside-ezra-millers-dark-spiral-messiah-delusions

It’s the first capture that actually works. 107.218.153.45 (talk) 20:13, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done Lightoil (talk) 02:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Making Category:People acquitted of assault

Category:People acquitted of assault 109.247.136.212 (talk) 21:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)