Talk:Turkey

Requested move 20 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:SNOW (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 19:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

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Turkey → Türkiye – The country has changed its English name to Türkiye. 2600:6C5A:657F:D1F5:48D3:2853:9745:8762 (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Won't happen as everyone will keep referring to them as Turkey! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, per WP:COMMONNAME. Even in the period after Erdogan's December memo, 'Turkey' predominates in English-language sources. News in the past 48 hours has described the name change as an ongoing process, with unclear timelines. It's far too soon to make a call on this, and I propose a short moratorium on requested moves until other governments, inter-governmental agencies, and news media can react to moves by the country. Firefangledfeathers 03:36, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Obviously way too soon for such a major change. Wikipedia does not lead, it follows. But if this ever does catch on and the article gets moved, then Turkey (bird) should be moved to Turkey. Rreagan007 (talk) 04:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Since the bird is named for the country, we'll have to change its name to "Türkiye" also to be consistent. :) BilCat (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. As stated above, the most common in the English-language name for the nation is Turkey. Perhaps if media and other sources follow suit with using Türkiye, there would be a stronger argument for the change. ExRat (talk) 05:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Alex2006 (talk) 06:26, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME. Turkiye or its equivalent only used by Turkey major English sources. 125.167.57.203 (talk) 07:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, until the preponderance of reliable English language sources routinely use the spelling "Türkiye". Cullen328 (talk) 07:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose No sign WP:COMMONNAME has changed, as stated above. This needs more than a memo from Erdogan to change it - WP:RS English-language usage has to change before we change. DeCausa (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Firefangledfeathers. Slightly off-topic, this website [1] use the new spelling, but this [2] doesn't yet. Apparently, the word "Turkish" is still ok per government.[3] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The name change is not even adopted yet by the largest two Turkish media in English language, Hurriyet Daily News and Daily Sabah, who continue to use "Turkey" as of now. Due mention of the name change can be slowly phased in if usage in local and global English-language media actually increases. Once the name change will be established and dominate in a wide range of sources (which is entirely WP:CRYSTALBALL), we can address the page title again. –Austronesier (talk) 12:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose the English name is Turkey, not "Türkiye". Super Ψ Dro 13:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Turkish Constiution. Shadow4dark (talk) 13:46, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - obviously not the common name. The limit should probably be the lede sentence and a mention in the prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. This should be a snow close at this point, as it's obvious this RM will fail. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support and make this title a DAB, no clear primary topic for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:34, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • @Crouch, Swale: could you provide a rationale for your !vote? Firefangledfeathers 19:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
    • @Firefangledfeathers: A combination of WP:NATURAL, alternative names may be used to settle titles by using alternative names as well as WP:NOPRIMARY for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:29, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I would note that we have no reason to assume that Türkiye will ever be used a an English word by native English speakers. If we accept Crouch, Swale's argument above, the correct response would be the one they proposed at the August RM. Kahastok talk 18:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

  My point was partly the fact that the country is probably going to sometimes be called "Turkey" and sometimes "Türkiye" so this reduces the chances of the country being primary for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support per noWP:NAMECHANGES.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:17, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • WP:NAMECHANGES would support retaining 'Turkey', as independent, reliable sources since the name change are continuing to use 'Turkey'. See, for example, the first five new pieces I found searching for 'Erdogan': Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal, Times of Israel, The Defense Post, and Reuters]. All but Reuters use 'Turkey' exclusively, and Reuters uses neither version. Firefangledfeathers 19:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 May 2023

At the end of section "History -> Republic of Turkey", change

The 2023 Turkish presidential election is scheduled to take place on 18 June 2023

to

The 2023 Turkish presidential election is scheduled to take place on 14 May 2023

Source:

e.g., the wikipedia article linked to the words "2023 Turkish presidential election" in the text to be changed itself... CM (talk) 09:32, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done with slightly editing. Beshogur (talk) 09:54, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 May 2023

Sorenisxx (talk) 20:29, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

can i edit the religion of turkiye

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Cannolis (talk) 20:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussion about use of "Türkiye" in flag templates

This discussion may be of interest to editors at this page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:04, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

What is the “Article 101 anomaly”?

@Mercresis Again you are making changes which are hard to understand. “Article 101 anomaly” may be obvious to you but I have never heard of it. What does it mean and what is the purpose of your recent changes please? Chidgk1 (talk) 16:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Constitution of Turkey, Article 101. It's on page 77 Mercresis (talk) 19:19, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

"A person can be elected President (Cumhurbaşkanı) maximum two times." Mercresis (talk) 19:21, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

In Turkish: "Bir kimse en fazla iki defa Cumhurbaşkanı seçilebilir." Source: https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/ Mercresis (talk) 19:24, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

In the English translation of the original Turkish text of the Constitution, there is a cleverly made "translation mistake":

https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/media/7258/anayasa_eng.pdf

"A person may be elected as the President of the Republic for two terms at most."

The original Turkish text says "two times" (iki defa), not "two terms" (iki dönem):

https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/

"Bir kimse en fazla iki defa Cumhurbaşkanı seçilebilir."

It makes a huge difference, because according to this definition ("iki defa"), the President (Cumhurbaşkanı) doesn't necessarily have to complete a full term ("dönem"). For instance, Erdoğan may argue that he didn't complete a full term between 2014 and 2018 by calling early elections, but it doesn't matter, because Article 101 says "iki defa" (two times), not "iki dönem" (two terms). Mercresis (talk) 19:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Not taking a side on whether Erdoğan's election was legal or not, but that's not what their main argument was. The main argument was that a 'president', pre-2017, was a different position than what a 'president' is now. Especially since the Turkish legal system seemingly disagrees with you in interpretation, you should not just use the primary source of the constitution to use a clearly leading sentence structure without consulting secondary sources. Uness232 (talk) 22:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Southeastern or Eastern European?

Can i change the term of Turkey’s geographic location from being Southeastern Europe, to just being straight up Eastern European, or does it need more discussion before being edited? CG7000 (talk) 09:10, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Why do you want to do this, may I ask? Turkey (when considered part of Europe) is usually grouped in with Southeastern Europe. This makes sense on a geographical, climatic and cultural level. Uness232 (talk) 09:25, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I think it would be misleading to replace it with "Eastern". DeCausa (talk) 09:45, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I think Turkey should be considered as Eastern European, as many Southeastern European countries, such as Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, and Serbia are usually associated with the term Eastern Europe, so it would make sense if Turkey was included as part of Eastern Europe. Feel free to debate me on this. CG7000 (talk) 12:06, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Do you have sources that support that view? DeCausa (talk) 12:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

https://www.intrepiddmc.com/destinations/europe/eastern-europe I have this source that lists Turkey as being part of Eastern Europe, if you don’t this that this source is the best i can find another one. CG7000 (talk) 13:17, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

That's not WP:RS so couldn't be used. There's a fair few sources that describe East Thrace as being in south eastern Europe - like this one from the OECD. I couldn't easily find one that qualifies as RS that says it's in "Eastern Europe". There may be some out there but even if there are, having now looked, it's clear to me that to use Eastern Europe would be WP:UNDUE. DeCausa (talk) 13:32, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Turkey today is barely part of Southeastern Europe, but certainly not part of Eastern Europe.