Talk:Kylie Minogue
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RfC
- The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Should the lead of Kylie Minogue's article be changed to this lead section I rewrote to include some pertinent, missing information? There is a list of specific changes, with sources to back them up. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Old lead section
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Kylie Ann Minogue AO OBE (/mɪˈnoʊɡ/; born 28 May 1968)[1][2] is an Australian singer, songwriter and actress. Minogue is the highest-selling female Australian artist of all time, having sold over 80 million records worldwide.[3] She has been recognised for reinventing herself in music as well as fashion, and is referred to by the European press as the "Princess of Pop" and a style icon. Her accolades include a Grammy Award, three Brit Awards and seventeen ARIA Music Awards.
Born and raised in Melbourne, Minogue first achieved recognition starring as Charlene Robinson in the Australian soap opera Neighbours (1986–1988). She began her music career in the late 1980s, releasing four bubblegum and dance-pop-influenced studio albums under PWL. By the early 1990s, Minogue had amassed several top ten singles in Australia and the UK, including "The Loco-Motion", "I Should Be So Lucky", "Especially for You", "Hand on Your Heart" and "Better the Devil You Know". Taking more creative control over her music, she signed with Deconstruction Records in 1993 and released the albums Kylie Minogue (1994) and Impossible Princess (1997). By joining Parlophone in 1999, Minogue returned to mainstream dance-oriented music with Light Years (2000), including the number-one hits "Spinning Around" and "On a Night Like This". The follow-up, Fever (2001), was an international breakthrough for Minogue, becoming her best-selling album to date. Its lead single, "Can't Get You Out of My Head" becoming one of the most successful singles of the 2000s, selling over five million units. Follow up singles, "In Your Eyes" and "Love at First Sight" became hits as well. She continued reinventing her image and experimenting with a range of genres on her subsequent albums, which spawned successful singles such as "Slow", "I Believe in You", "2 Hearts" and "All the Lovers". In 2017, she partnered with BMG Rights Management, with "Dancing" (2018) as their first release. In the following years, Minogue became the only female artist to have a number-one album and a top ten single, from the 1980s to the 2020s in the UK charts, with Disco (2020) and "Padam Padam" (2023) respectively. In film, Minogue made her debut in The Delinquents (1989), and appeared in Street Fighter (1994), Moulin Rouge! (2001), Holy Motors (2012) and San Andreas (2015). In reality television, she appeared as a judge on The Voice UK and The Voice Australia both in 2014. Her other ventures include product endorsements, books, perfumes, charitable work and a wine brand. Minogue's achievements include being an ARIA Hall of Fame inductee, Officer of the Order of Australia (AO), Officer of the Order of the British Empire, Chevalier (knight) of the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres and an honorary Doctor of Health Science (D.H.Sc.). |
New lead section
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Kylie Ann Minogue AO OBE (/mɪˈnoʊɡ/; born 28 May 1968) is an Australian singer, songwriter and actress. Referred to by the European press as the "Princess of Pop",[4] she has been widely recognised for her reinvention in music and fashion. Her accolades include a Grammy Award, three Brit Awards and seventeen ARIA Music Awards.
Born and raised in Melbourne, Minogue first achieved recognition in the Australian soap opera Neighbours (1986–1988). She began her music career in the late 1980s, releasing four studio albums under PWL. By the early 1990s, she had amassed several top five singles in Australia and the UK, including "The Loco-Motion", "I Should Be So Lucky", "Especially for You", "Hand on Your Heart" and "Better the Devil You Know". After taking more creative control over her music, she signed with Deconstruction Records and released the albums Kylie Minogue (1994) and Impossible Princess (1997), the former holding the number-one hit "Confide in Me". Minogue returned to mainstream dance-pop after joining Parlophone with Light Years (2000), including the number-one hits "Spinning Around" and "On a Night Like This". Her next album, Fever (2001), was an international breakthrough and became her best-selling album to date. The lead single, "Can't Get You Out of My Head" topped the charts of over 40 countries and sold over five million units. It became one of the most commercially successful singles of the 2000s. Follow up singles include "In Your Eyes" and "Love at First Sight" which both peaked in the top-five. She continued reinventing her image and experimenting with a range of genres on her subsequent albums, which spawned successful singles such as "Slow", "I Believe in You", "2 Hearts" and "All the Lovers". She later partnered up with BMG Rights Management, with "Dancing" as their first release. After releasing Disco (2020), she became the only female artist to have a number-one album from the 1980s to the 2020s in the UK charts. Her sixteenth studio album Tension (2023) received widespread acclaim from critics, with the lead single "Padam Padam" noted as her recording comeback.[5] Minogue is the highest-selling female Australian artist of all time, having sold over 80 million records worldwide. In film, Minogue made her debut in The Delinquents (1989), and appeared in Street Fighter (1994), Moulin Rouge! (2001), Holy Motors (2012) and San Andreas (2015). In reality television, she appeared as a judge on The Voice UK and The Voice Australia both in 2014. Her other ventures include product endorsements, books, perfumes, charitable work and a wine brand. Minogue's achievements include being an ARIA Hall of Fame inductee, Officer of the Order of Australia (AO), Officer of the Order of the British Empire, Chevalier (knight) of the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres and an honorary Doctor of Health Science (D.H.Sc.). |
References
- ^ "Kylie Minogue vs. Kylie Jenner Trademark Battle Has a Winner". Billboard. 7 February 2017.
- ^ "7 of Kylie Minogue's most iconic outfits". Vice. 26 March 2021.
- ^ "National Film and Sound Archive of Australia". NFSA. 23 November 2020. Retrieved 19 March 2022.
- ^ Sources for Minogue being called the "Princess of Pop":
- Granville, Samantha (2023-07-28). "Kylie Minogue announces Las Vegas residency". BBC News. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
Dubbed the Princess of Pop, Minogue has sold over 80 million records worldwide, won a Grammy and three Brit Awards.
- "Padam! Kylie Minogue is Rolling Stone UK's next cover star". Rolling Stone UK. September 7, 2023.
The Princess of Pop will release her latest album Tension on September 22 and our latest issue sees the singer going deep on the record's genesis.
- Curto, Justin (2020-09-24). "Kylie Minogue Waves a Wand, Drops New Song, 'Magic'". Vulture. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
- "Kylie Minogue turns 50: Remembering the star's rise to princess of pop". The Irish News. May 28, 2018. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
- Reilly, Nick (2018-11-12). "Kylie Minogue announces outdoor UK tour for summer 2019 – and it's in time for Glastonbury". NME. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
The Princess of Pop will plays venues including Blenheim Palace, the Eden Project and Hampton Court Palace between June and August.
- Granville, Samantha (2023-07-28). "Kylie Minogue announces Las Vegas residency". BBC News. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
- ^ Khomami, Nadia (2023-05-31). "Kylie Minogue 'bursting with joy' as new single Padam Padam soars up charts". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2023-10-18.
It's been hailed as Kylie Minogue's "comeback" single and has generated countless memes and dance videos on social media.
Specific changes list:
- A mention of her 1994 number one single, Confide in Me
- Extra sources calling her the "Princess of Pop"; some of which are not European but American sources, so the "European press" phrasing is null
- Can't Get you out of my Head topping the charts of over 40 countries; source from The Guardian
- Removed year attached to "Dancing" as the other links to her other notable songs don't have years attached to them
- Removed "the only female artist in the UK that has achieved a top-ten single from the 1980s to the 2020s"; this is WP:SYNT as the source linked says "She is the fourth female artist to received a top-ten single across 5 consecutive decades." Not the same thing.
- Tension, her latest album, is her highest scoring album on Metacritic and the first of her albums to receive a "widespread acclaim" score since Metacritic was established in the 2000s. A woman with such a long career as hers achieving her best scoring album 35 years into her career is unheard of, therefore this deserves its mention.
- Moved "highest selling artist of all time" to the first sentence of the last paragraph, as is done on many other female entertainer articles like Madonna and Beyonce.
- Agree as proposer. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 15:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Malformed RfC. Please clearly indicate what changes are being proposed and what corresponding sections of the article body support the changes to the lede. --Hipal (talk) 15:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Hipal: Done, I added a more descriptive sentence to the question. Additionally, more specific changes of what I'm proposing can be found in the above section of the talk page under "Insignificant but productive lead changes." PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I have no idea what changes are being proposed. You might want to put both the current and the proposed together so people can see them both, or create a version showing the changes via
<del>...</del>
and<ins>...</ins>
. --Hipal (talk) 16:41, 18 October 2023 (UTC)- cc @Hipal: Should I blank this section and start over? The RfC short sentence isn't showing up on the list no matter what edits I make to it. I asked for help in the Teahouse about it.
- As for del & ins, I didn't know that code, thanks. I'm very noobish at templates. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 17:00, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I have no idea what changes are being proposed. You might want to put both the current and the proposed together so people can see them both, or create a version showing the changes via
- @Hipal: Done, I added a more descriptive sentence to the question. Additionally, more specific changes of what I'm proposing can be found in the above section of the talk page under "Insignificant but productive lead changes." PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Disagree, the current lead section is fine as it is, as Drmies already pointed out in this talk page. Also once again, you omitted her achievement for having a top ten single in five consecutive decades (80s to the 20s) in the UK chart. Your proposed lead section is also way too long.TheHotwiki (talk) 15:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: the claim for "Can't Get You Out of My Head" hitting #1 in forty countries is unreferenced within the lead section, and the entire article itself. A big no for the lead section of a featured Wikipedia article.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- First of all, the admin (that you've pinged four times already) did not support nor advertise your reverts. Reread the actual message again. You also cannot "Decline" rfcs.
- Second of all, as I've already pointed out many times, that achievement does not have a direct source and your reasoning for including it is SYNT. According to Wordcounter, the proposed lead section only adds 10 more words, most of which are around adding the mention of "Confide in Me". Which you also keep removing with no reason.
- Re CGYOMYH: The Guardian - The single [...] reached No 1 in around 40 countries. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Your claim of SYNT is false though. The article itself has a reference (from The Official Charts Company) that Minogue has achieved a top ten hit in the 80s to the 2020s, which so far, she's the only female artist to achieve that feat. The other female singers – Lulu, Cher and Diana Ross have achieved their top ten singles in different five consecutive decades compare to Minogue, as pointed out several times in this talkpage. Your reasoning of removing her achievement in singles chart, isn't justified. "Padam Padam" is also not a recording comeback, as she never retired from recording/releasing music, for you to label it as a "recording comeback". Also removing certain mention of specific years, in the current lead section is a big no.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Did the OCC say specifically that "Kylie is the only female artist to achieve a top ten single from the 80s to the 2000s"?
- The Guardian described it as a recording comeback; why do you keep using "you" pronouns as if I am the one who wrote these sources?
- The other singles don't have years attached to them as per MOS
- Still also haven't given any good reason for removing Confide In Me and Can't Get You out of My Head's records PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- You keep asking if she's the only artist to have a top ten single in the 80s to the 2020s. Well other than Kylie Minogue, which female artist managed to score a top ten single from the 80s to the 2020s then? You cannot even argue that there is someone else that managed to achieve, that in the same five consecutive decades. You can clearly google if there is someone else right? The Official Charts Company didn't state Cher, Diana Ross and Lulu had top ten single during the 80s to the 2020s. It is very clear in the reference provided, those three other artists achieved theirs in the 60s to the 2020s, in a different time period as Minogue. The fact that you keep an making an excuse of this in order to remove it from the lead section, is just wild to me.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- WP:OR PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Just because it wasn't copied and pasted, doesn't make it an original research. I'd like to see someone else making a comment about, that its original research. TheHotwiki (talk) 16:41, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- WP:OR PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- You keep asking if she's the only artist to have a top ten single in the 80s to the 2020s. Well other than Kylie Minogue, which female artist managed to score a top ten single from the 80s to the 2020s then? You cannot even argue that there is someone else that managed to achieve, that in the same five consecutive decades. You can clearly google if there is someone else right? The Official Charts Company didn't state Cher, Diana Ross and Lulu had top ten single during the 80s to the 2020s. It is very clear in the reference provided, those three other artists achieved theirs in the 60s to the 2020s, in a different time period as Minogue. The fact that you keep an making an excuse of this in order to remove it from the lead section, is just wild to me.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Your claim of SYNT is false though. The article itself has a reference (from The Official Charts Company) that Minogue has achieved a top ten hit in the 80s to the 2020s, which so far, she's the only female artist to achieve that feat. The other female singers – Lulu, Cher and Diana Ross have achieved their top ten singles in different five consecutive decades compare to Minogue, as pointed out several times in this talkpage. Your reasoning of removing her achievement in singles chart, isn't justified. "Padam Padam" is also not a recording comeback, as she never retired from recording/releasing music, for you to label it as a "recording comeback". Also removing certain mention of specific years, in the current lead section is a big no.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: the claim for "Can't Get You Out of My Head" hitting #1 in forty countries is unreferenced within the lead section, and the entire article itself. A big no for the lead section of a featured Wikipedia article.TheHotwiki (talk) 16:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose I am unsure the lede needs a list of here most popular songs (fOr a start). No this does not look like an improemwnt. Slatersteven (talk) 16:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Even without this RfC, the lead already has her popular songs... what? PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Here from the notification at WP:NPOV. I would suggest actually showing what is going to be changed, rather than just showing what the new lead will be. It's far to much detail to be working it out by flicking back and forth from the current lead to the proposal. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ActivelyDisinterested: Done. Thoughts? PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 06:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- Also please refrain from speaking/writing a different language in the talkpage. We are in English Wikipedia. Speaking/typing in a different language in this talk page, to release your frustration isn't a good look. TheHotwiki (talk) 08:04, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ActivelyDisinterested: Done. Thoughts? PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 06:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Sidetracked discussion
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- I am not going to meddle in the lead changes (although, I think PHShanghai has some points); however, I can confirm that I have felt that Hotwiki has been rude and passive aggressive towards me in the past when it comes discussing/reverting some changes on the Kylie articles. Reading this conversation, I cannot help but feel he has some WP:OWN issues with the content he is contributing on Wiki. Let's not forget that Wikipedia is a joint collaborative project that must be respected and discussed. — Tom(T2ME) 09:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
Slight oppose - (Brought here from WP:RFC/A) - I do think the proposed new section runs a little long. I don't like that the fact she was the #1 highest selling female Australian musician was omitted form the lead paragraph. However I do see you're putting a lot of work into the new section and think there is promise if you can trim it down and keep some of the key points. MaximusEditor (talk) 23:47, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Tension critical acclaim
Tension is one of the highest ranking critically acclaimed pop albums of all time on Metacritic. This being omitted from the lead is confusing. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 07:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not really. Her critically acclaimed singles aren't mentioned either as well in the opening section. Hotwiki (talk) 07:57, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also, please stop changing "highest selling" to "best selling". There's nothing wrong with the term. Even artist Dua Lipa used the term "highest selling" when she presented an award to Kylie Minogue at the Brits Award 2024. This seems like another unnecessary change to the opening paragraph, that doesn't improve the article. Hotwiki (talk) 08:00, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- As for the infobox picture, I like the cropped version from @750h+:[1]. Just use that file from that editor. Hotwiki (talk) 08:05, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Critically acclaimed" singles are most usually never mentioned in the lede (see Ray of Light (song) in Madonna but an album having an 80+ score on Metacritic and winning a grammy is notable for the lead section. Why remove the mention of critics loving her album? It was her first grammy win in 20 years...
- Additionally, the cropped 1 image is too close to her face. If someone can remove the Cantonese subtitles then we would have more space to work with, but we have to make the best of what we have. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:28, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- The cropped file by 750h+ was fine. Also may I remind you, not ALL Kylie Minogue albums have a Metacritic rating. Her first to sixth studio album don't have a Metacritic page. I'm sensing a pattern here, why do you keep the changing the lead section? Before, you mentioned her 4 PWL albums were teen pop albums. You claimed that Disco/Magic had "significant noise". Then you mentioned that the other Fever singles had the same chart success as Can't Get You Out of My Head. Now you didn't like the photo in the infobox, so you changed the picture for the second time. When someone cropped the image, you reverted it to your own upload. And now you keep insisting that Tension being critically acclaimed needs to be mentioned in the lead, and so as Padam Padam winning a Grammy in your most recent change. Hotwiki (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- "and the Grammy-winning "Padam Padam" from the album Tension (2023) respectively" that line is incredibly wordy. Especially compare to her other album campaigns, in which the lead single is the only one mentioned in the lead section: "She continued reinventing her image and experimenting with a range of genres on her subsequent albums, which spawned successful singles such as "Slow", "I Believe in You", "2 Hearts" and "All the Lovers"." Seehow that line didn't mention the parent album/year of those singles. Also "Come Into My world" also won a grammy and it isn't mentioned in the lead section. Hotwiki (talk) 17:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the lead section as it is. You are heavily emphasizing on the Tension era in the lead section, by mentioning that Padam Padam won a Grammy, mentioning that single came from the album Tension, mentioning Tension's year of release (2023) and highlighting that Tension is "critically acclaimed". The lead section should be brief. Hotwiki (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- A: This is literally admitting to WP:OWN behavior. Anyone can change the lead section on Wikipedia, point blank period. Where did I say that the critical acclaim was based on Metacritic alone? Albums can be acclaimed without Metacritic, see Madonna.
- B: Grammy winning Padam Padam is wordy, but "In the following years, Minogue became the only female artist to have a number-one album and a top ten single, from the 1980s to the 2020s in the UK Charts" isn't wordy? You don't seem to care about wordiness when it is regarding something you insist on keeping in the lead...
- C: What is wrong with the album year release date? That's MOS for all singer lead articles, see Katy Perry and Lady Gaga..... PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 07:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- You only edit this article by changing the lead section again and again which is becoming a pattern. You've already proposed a lead section change from RFC, and most of the editors in this talk page have said, it was not improvement. I suggest you edit other articles, instead of drastically changing the lead section whenever you make an edit in this article. Hotwiki (talk) 07:35, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- If we look up at the history of this article, you've always find something to change in the lead article – which in my opinion, doesn't improve the article and you've been proven wrong by your previous claims in the past about Minogue's output. In the next few weeks or days or months, you would continue your pattern, by making another drastic change to the lead section, and like the previous times you've edited the article, I don't think it will benefit the article in any shape of form. Hotwiki (talk) 07:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- As for her Grammy wins, its already been pointed that she won two Grammy Awards in the lead section. No need to point out in the lead section when were those two times. You did that first with Padam Padam. And now you're mentioning her 1st Grammy win (Come into My World). We aren't enumerating all or any of her Brit Awards or Aria Awards wins in the lead section, for you to highlight her which song she got her 1st/2nd Grammy win. Hotwiki (talk) 07:45, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also no need link the Wikipedia article of Time magazine in the lead section, as there's also a link for the Wikipedia article for Time100, which contains the Wikipedia article link for Time (magazine). 1 Wikipedia link related to Time magazine is enough, especially this article isn't about Time. Hotwiki (talk) 08:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- As for you accusing me of WP:OWN, well me calling you out for your "editing pattern" in this article and reminding you about your false claims regarding Minogue's output doesn't mean I am owning this article. I just simply disagreed with your edits, hence why your edits were reverted. I've also explained to you several times in this talk page/edit summaries on why your edits were reverted. Hotwiki (talk) 08:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also to further comment on this drastic change[2] by PHShanghai. There's no need to exclude Charlene Robinson as that was her breakthrough acting role. No need to remove the year (1993), she joined Deconstruction, especially the year when joined Parlophone and Bmg were mentioned. There's no need to mention the parent album of "Padam Padam". The lead section should be selective on which projects should be highlighted, hence why NOT every Kylie Minogue album is mentioned in the lead section. The first product released by BMG Rights Management for Kylie Minogue was "Dancing" not Golden the album."Dancing" was released in January 2018. Golden the album was released in April 2018. So once again, @PHShanghai:, thats another misinformation you've added in the lead section.Hotwiki (talk) 08:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- As for you accusing me of WP:OWN, well me calling you out for your "editing pattern" in this article and reminding you about your false claims regarding Minogue's output doesn't mean I am owning this article. I just simply disagreed with your edits, hence why your edits were reverted. I've also explained to you several times in this talk page/edit summaries on why your edits were reverted. Hotwiki (talk) 08:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also no need link the Wikipedia article of Time magazine in the lead section, as there's also a link for the Wikipedia article for Time100, which contains the Wikipedia article link for Time (magazine). 1 Wikipedia link related to Time magazine is enough, especially this article isn't about Time. Hotwiki (talk) 08:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- As for her Grammy wins, its already been pointed that she won two Grammy Awards in the lead section. No need to point out in the lead section when were those two times. You did that first with Padam Padam. And now you're mentioning her 1st Grammy win (Come into My World). We aren't enumerating all or any of her Brit Awards or Aria Awards wins in the lead section, for you to highlight her which song she got her 1st/2nd Grammy win. Hotwiki (talk) 07:45, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- If we look up at the history of this article, you've always find something to change in the lead article – which in my opinion, doesn't improve the article and you've been proven wrong by your previous claims in the past about Minogue's output. In the next few weeks or days or months, you would continue your pattern, by making another drastic change to the lead section, and like the previous times you've edited the article, I don't think it will benefit the article in any shape of form. Hotwiki (talk) 07:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- You only edit this article by changing the lead section again and again which is becoming a pattern. You've already proposed a lead section change from RFC, and most of the editors in this talk page have said, it was not improvement. I suggest you edit other articles, instead of drastically changing the lead section whenever you make an edit in this article. Hotwiki (talk) 07:35, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the lead section as it is. You are heavily emphasizing on the Tension era in the lead section, by mentioning that Padam Padam won a Grammy, mentioning that single came from the album Tension, mentioning Tension's year of release (2023) and highlighting that Tension is "critically acclaimed". The lead section should be brief. Hotwiki (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- "and the Grammy-winning "Padam Padam" from the album Tension (2023) respectively" that line is incredibly wordy. Especially compare to her other album campaigns, in which the lead single is the only one mentioned in the lead section: "She continued reinventing her image and experimenting with a range of genres on her subsequent albums, which spawned successful singles such as "Slow", "I Believe in You", "2 Hearts" and "All the Lovers"." Seehow that line didn't mention the parent album/year of those singles. Also "Come Into My world" also won a grammy and it isn't mentioned in the lead section. Hotwiki (talk) 17:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- The cropped file by 750h+ was fine. Also may I remind you, not ALL Kylie Minogue albums have a Metacritic rating. Her first to sixth studio album don't have a Metacritic page. I'm sensing a pattern here, why do you keep the changing the lead section? Before, you mentioned her 4 PWL albums were teen pop albums. You claimed that Disco/Magic had "significant noise". Then you mentioned that the other Fever singles had the same chart success as Can't Get You Out of My Head. Now you didn't like the photo in the infobox, so you changed the picture for the second time. When someone cropped the image, you reverted it to your own upload. And now you keep insisting that Tension being critically acclaimed needs to be mentioned in the lead, and so as Padam Padam winning a Grammy in your most recent change. Hotwiki (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also, please stop changing "highest selling" to "best selling". There's nothing wrong with the term. Even artist Dua Lipa used the term "highest selling" when she presented an award to Kylie Minogue at the Brits Award 2024. This seems like another unnecessary change to the opening paragraph, that doesn't improve the article. Hotwiki (talk) 08:00, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Contemporary sources for "Princess of Pop"
New sources for Princess of Pop that I've added to her legacy section:
British Vogue: As the princess of pop celebrates her 56th birthday [...] she shares five favourite looks from her five decades in pop with British Vogue.
NME: The Princess Of Pop has constantly reinvented herself and done things her own way.
BBC Radio 2: A new era of Kylie has officially begun and to celebrate, Radio 2’s Scott Mills sat down with the Princess of Pop [...]
The Irish Times: Our unstoppable Princess of Pop was back, drumming out sensual and joy-filled hits like Slow in 2003, All the Lovers in 2010 and Into the Blue in 2014. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not really needed, as the "Princess of Pop" label is already cited well and didn't need more references. You don't need to add every article that labels Kylie Minogue as the "princess of pop". Hotwiki (talk) 00:50, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is she wasn't referred as the "Australian Queen of Pop"? --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Here are several American sources that label her as the Princess of Pop:
- CNN: Of course, Kylie Minogue has a new album coming out titled “Disco.” The Princess of Pop has become well known for her dance tunes, and her 15th studio album drops on Friday.
- USA Today: Australia's highest-selling female recording artist and "princess of pop" is a Gemini.
- Vulture: The Princess of Pop released a new song today, “Magic,” along with a glowing music video.
- Vulture again: "Just in time for fulfill our summer fantasies, princess of pop Kylie Minogue and Years & Years have collaborated on “Starstruck (Remix)"
- W Magazine: (This one is very relevant) Kylie Minogue is perhaps best known in America for her hit song “Cant Get You Out of My Head.” To the rest of the world, she is known as the definitive “Princess of Pop.”
- All of these are English-language American sources. I am not saying that sources calling her the "Australian Princess of Pop" do not exist (Billboard is one example) but to say outright that non-European/non-Australian sources have never referenced her title is untrue. There is no MOS policy stating that honorific nicknames can only be used for one person. I can find even more North American sources, these only took me around 5 minutes or so. Please discuss further before reverting again PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Every time I edit this article, you always revert it minutes later saying "not needed" and "it's fine as it was" even with proper sources and a talk page section opened. For more information, please see WP:SQS PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:50, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Once again, I disagreed with your changes. You don't need to take it personally, I just don't see how the recent changes you've made benefit the lead section. You have a habit/pattern of changing the lead section everytime you come across this article which isn't really helpful/needed to begin with. Hotwiki (talk) 12:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- [3][4][5][6][7][8][9] That's the pattern I'm talking about. You've been doing this habit for how many months now? Hotwiki (talk) 12:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also, why are you bolding Princess of Pop? and it looked like that in your edits? That is against Wikipedia's Manual of Style. Hotwiki (talk) 12:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- [3][4][5][6][7][8][9] That's the pattern I'm talking about. You've been doing this habit for how many months now? Hotwiki (talk) 12:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Once again, I disagreed with your changes. You don't need to take it personally, I just don't see how the recent changes you've made benefit the lead section. You have a habit/pattern of changing the lead section everytime you come across this article which isn't really helpful/needed to begin with. Hotwiki (talk) 12:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is she wasn't referred as the "Australian Queen of Pop"? --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
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