Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Wiki suitable for translation?

Hi, I'm looking to translate my site, and have many volunteers. I figured the best means of translation is a Wiki (with registered users only) but am undecided on what to use.

Mediawiki is not great because you cannot simultaeneously view the original and translate.

Is there any Wiki created with translation in mind, or suitable for translation? Or is there a relatively simple hack that I could use on the Mediawiki software?

Thanks,--Stepheno 11:27, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It shouldn't be too involved to modify the HTML and/or CSS to show the textarea for editing and the (pre)view of the article so you can see both simultaneously.
Are you sure this would be necessary? Couldn't you just provide the source documents online and have people submit their translations by email, public ftp, etc.? How many documents are we talking about? What exactly is the purpose of your site? ¦ Reisio 19:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have you seen multilingual advice and "How To Write On Multilingual Pages" ? They are running the OddMuse software. --DavidCary 17:44, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Is there a list of people awarded the MBE?

Can someone tell me whether there is a comprehensive list of those awarded the MBE available on the internet, together with a short description of what the MBE was awarded for? If so, please could you tell me the URL.

J Fuller

I assume you're talking about members of the Order of the British Empire? Check out that article- it has a comprehensive history and background of the Order. In addition, I would also check each of the links in the "See also" section- some of the links have lists of members of different orders. In addition, there is also a list of honorary British knights and a list of television personalities who have been awarded the Order of the British Empire. Hope this helps! Flcelloguy Give me a note! d.c. al fine? Desk 14:16, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I had this same question a few months ago. I didn't ask here, I just basically did my own research with Google's help. The conclusion I came to, unfortunately, is that there is no such list on the internet at this time. One place that I thought would obviously have it was some official site of the British gov't but that was no help either. Sorry. Dismas 10:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[The Prime Minister's website] has several lists relating to these honors; just search the site for "Order of the British Empire." I don't know enough about the honors system to know exactly what the lists are (i.e. upcoming honors, existing honors, etc.). -- Essjay · Talk 11:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Ah, an important point I've just discovered: There are over 100,000 living members of the Order. It's highly unlikely that there is a comprehensive list anywhere outside some massive tome hidden in a cave at the Royal Archives. However, you might consider contacting the PM's office (through the website I cited above) to inquire. -- Essjay · Talk 11:25, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, and most of the members are MBE recipients. More to the point... a hundred thousand people, skewed to the old - call it an average of age fifty at receipt. So maybe twenty-five years to live, meaning ~4% of holders die a year, meaning on average about ten are dying a day. It'd be a real bastard to keep that list up to date; I suspect they may just have a list of all awards and not document it by "alive". However, the annual awards lists are certainly public - you read them in the papers - so they're probably easy enough to come by. Shimgray 11:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That must have been what I saw on the PM's website. -- Essjay · Talk 12:05, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

The Honours Lists are published online by the London Gazette [1], and the only way to make a comprehensive list would be to compile one from each of the two annual Lists. (The online archives only go back to 1900, but the Order was established in 1917 so that isn't a problem.) Proteus (Talk) 13:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

over and under-determined

Though it is possible to use 'Search engines' to discover the mathematical use of these concepts, there seem to be no clues available as to how they are being used in a psychological/philosophical sense. Are they Freudian? What is the link with mathematics? Where and when were they derived and first used?

Harold Bloom in his book 'Shakespeare - the Invention of the Human' constantly uses the concepts e.g p. 407 'Hamlet will not do anything prematurely; something in him is determined not be be over-determined.'

There is clearly some meaning at work here - but what? --User:Jeffrey_Newman

You are correct that Bloom, a literary critic, uses it in a psychoanalytic sense. Psychoanalysis was a "school" of theoretical concepts intended to help us understand normal and abnormal behavior and to provide tools and methods for treating mental illness. Freud was the principal originator, but many others contributed. It was very influential in psychiatry in the first half of the 20th century, but has been largely discarded among practicing psychiatrists in the last 40 years with the advances in understanding the brain and the evidence that most severe "mental illnesses" represent biological disease of the brain, and that for more minor degrees of psychological or social dysfunction, one "talking treatment" works about as well as another. Critics say that nothing in psychoanalysis was testable or falsifiable, so that it should not have been considered a branch of "science" in any form.

I have been wondering whether this can be considered an NPOV statement. What is not verifiable or falsifiable today may be tomorrow. The issue may well be limitations of present methodology. Often, as here, it appears in the way that such comments are stated that the shortcoming is in whatever is ruled as 'non-scientific' (and, therefore by implication, 'lesser' - here psychoanalysis)- not in present scientific methodologyJeffrey Newman 04:12, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

First of all, it is accuratey NPOV to say, "critics say...". However, I will freely admit my answer as a whole has no pretensions to being NPOV, just defensible. I would respectfully say that your opinion (that it might be testable or falsifiable tomorrow) is a far shakier POV. There is a difference between whether we can test a theory today and whether it is even a "testable" kind of theory. I can imagine testing the applied process of psychoanalysis in a crude way (by comparing outcomes of patients getting psychoanalysis versus another "talking treatment"), and there have been treatments in medicine which worked by a mechanism we didn't understand or understood erroneously. For example, the efficacy of aspirin for pain was testable a century ago, but only in the last 25 yeasrs have we begun to understand the mechanism by which it works (though the mechanism could have been imagined in 1905). In my opinion, the basic psychoanalytic theories of how the mind works and mental illness arises are not even "testable" kinds of hypotheses, and virtually every advance in our understanding of the brain mechanisms of mental illness of the last 50 years has tended to make basic ideas of psychoanalysis seem less and less meaningful (not just less "true" but even less applicable as a kind of way to talk about mental processes). If you can describe a process by which some of the fundamental psychoanalytic ideas could be tested, you might change my POV, but I am not holding my breath.

Psychoanalysis lived on in literary theory where there is less need for reality testing or usefulness, although among the younger generation of literary critics structuralism has largely replaced psychoanalysis in favor.

All that is background. A simple definition of overdetermination in a psychoanalytic or literary sense is that there are additional motives for a person's behavior which arise from unconscious conflicts and motivations. Thus a person may have a conscious reason for doing something, but a psychoanalyst may claim that there was one or more additional unconscious motivations, thus "overdetermining" the behavior in question. One may recognize that in its orginal, most powerful form, this concept fails the Occam's razor test (as well as falsifiability and perhaps common sense).

Note that in this sense there is no such thing as underdetermined behavior--- psychoanalysts will always come up with an "explanation", although in a logical sense it might make sense to use the term for anything you do "just because." alteripse 18:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In epistemology, underdetermination can mean that any set of facts can be explained in many ways -- a given set of pieces of evidence can never have only one possible explanation. This is often used in philosophy of science, e.g. regarding the underdetermination of theory by data. This is similar to (but much easier to show than) the psychoanalytic sense.

Are you certain you have this right? It sounds almost exactly like the psychoanalytic usage of overdetermination (i.e., that a given action may have multiple explanations). alteripse 23:18, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes. See Google, underdetermination of theory by data, or see this article entitled "Underdetermination". --FOo 04:16, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've also heard the word overdetermination used to refer to a specification, possibly mathematical or technical, which places too many constraints on the possible solutions, such that there may not be any. For instance, three points determine a plane; for any three points in space there necessarily exists a plane containing all three. But four points overdetermine a plane -- given four points in space, there is not necessarily a plane containing all four. --FOo 23:11, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Need the name of a country music artist and lyrics to the song

I am looking for the name of the country music artist and the lyrics to the song. The song contains the words "I thought that you were gone forever, but it's nice here we stand" in it.I sure would appreiate somebodies help. Thank you kindly.--Rick1960 05:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Could it be "Hello Heart" by George Jones? Bovlb 06:04, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)

When I only know a few words of a song but not the artist I normally go to Google and type "lyrics [insert words you know]". For instance, "lyrics "All that you touch and all that you see is all your life will ever be" would return numerous hits of Pink Floyd lyrics. Thus, it's probably their song, which in this case, it is. Normally the first 5-6 links all agree on who sang it. If you want to know who wrote it, some of the links might provide that info as well. Dismas 20:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How to save before being published

I was writting an article on Tullio Campagnolo but I ran out of time and wanted to save the uncompleted entry and work on it the next day. However, when I got back, the article was marked as copyright infringement and my page is now gone. WHile it is true that I did use another web page for info, I did have the author's permision. How can I prevent this and how do I save without publishing?

Eric campagnollo2002

Regarding "saving without publishing": that's not really possible, but if you register an account, you can put these works in progress in your own user space, where you can work on them at your leisure.

Your page is not gone, because possible copyright violations are kept for at least a few days to allow just such an appeal as yours. Tullio Campagnolo now contains a link to Wikipedia:Copyright problems#June 17, and that is where you should go to explain the situation. Your old page is still available as a separate revision: [2]. Do not simply restore it before clearing the problem, though. JRM · Talk 14:53, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)

When I am working on long articles, I usually either save them to my User space or just to a text file on my desktop. Pretty low-tech, but it works pretty well. --Fastfission 18:23, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

measuring weight of a planet

How exactly experts measure the weight or mass of a planet or even a star? Roscoe x 18:35, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there is any serious sense in which planets can be said to have weight, but I think that they estimate mass either by making estimates based on volume and what they think the planet is made of, or by observing its gravitational effect on nearby objects like stars. Natalizer 18:39, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sending a space probe near an object and watching the freqency of radio waves it emits (doppler effect) can give very accurate results. Basically all you need to probe the gravity field of an object is to know its acceleration and distance from the object, but these can be calculated by knowing the period and velocity of an orbiting object. Astronomers can often find these through direct observations of object's position in the sky over time.--Joel 19:31, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Using gravitational constants seems to be the method of choice for mass. 01 02. ¦ Reisio 21:32, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)

If you can find a satellite orbiting the planet it is easy, as the period of the orbiting body (assuming that its mass is much less than that of the body it is orbiting otherwise things get complicated) is found by:

$T=2\pi {\sqrt {a^{3}/GM}}$

Where a is length of orbit's semi-major axis, G is the gravitational constant, and M is the mass of the central body. Evil Monkey∴Hello 00:04, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Where would one look in an encyclopedia for an answer to a question like this? Getting philosophical now, I find that as Wikipedia matures, the "obviously" named subjects are covered. However there are lots of objective facts, like this one, that isn't very well covered in Wikipedia. Is "Weighing planets" a suitable article? Samw 18:39, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm an interesting question. I knew of the formula I gave, so knew it would be hidden somewhere in Wikipedia, finding it in orbital period. I don't know about measuring mass of planets (the pendantic physicist in me shows here — weight is a measure of the force caused by a gravity field, while mass is resistance to change in motion, but anyway…). My guess is the information is in Wikipedia, but spread over several articles. Evil Monkey∴Hello 21:09, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

I seem to remember an undergraduate experiment with two big lead ball called "weighing the earth". — Sebastian (talk) 08:06, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

Sorry about "Weighing planets"; "Massing planets" doesn't quite roll of the tongue.  :-) Anyways, my point remains. As Wikipedia matures, the challenge is to organize the information as much as it is to gather more information. Maybe we could compile a "FAQ" on common questions like this in the Reference desk. "Why does salt melt ice?" is another common question that comes to mind that I don't think Wikipedia answers in a single location: Freezing point depression, Eutectic all allude to it (along with Snow removal) but there's no crisp explanation anywhere. Samw 03:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Identifying Photos

Since this worked so well last time I'll try again. The following is an unindent stick insect:

Unident stick insect	File:Stick insect02.jpg Unident stick insect	File:Stick insect03.jpg Unident stick insect
File:Stick insect04.jpg Unident stick insect	File:Stick insect body.jpg Unident stick insect

Thanks again to those who help out. --144.139.163.207 11:16, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry that was me --Fir0002 01:37, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Where were these taken? ¦ Reisio 12:31, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

Based on the IP and the previous request, I'm betting Australia, though I don't know what region. :-) It think it's a nymph of some member of Phasmatidae, but that's a pretty large family, and I'm no entomologist. In shape it resembles a Podacanthus wilkinsoni, but the characteristic markings are missing. I just spent a pleasant hour or two digging through pages on stick insects and learning all about fibulae, tibiae and filiform antennae, but I'm guessing this is hopeless if you're not an expert. JRM · Talk 13:06, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

My best guess is that it's a Ctenomorpha chronus. Looks right Vital stats X marks the spot Distribution (Stick insect) ¦ Reisio 13:56, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

I think you've got it again Reisio!--Fir0002 01:37, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I seen stick insects simular to those in South Africa.

Opening Macintosh ShrinkWrap disk image files in Windows

I had created some data disks (JPEG, HTML, ...) in the ShrinkWrap IMG format on a Macintosh several years ago. Some of them were compressed disk image files. How do I open these HFS-compatible disk images on my Windows computer? -- Toytoy 11:29, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry I have no experience to draw from, but I can guess based on quick research. It seems only a few Mac applications can still expand ShrinkWrap images; Stuffit Expander can, but only in the Mac version. It is very possible that ShrinkWrap images stored vital data partially in the resource fork; if this is the case, then the image file is practially destroyed as soon as it is copied to/via a non-HFS(+) medium. This could explain the absence of decompressors for Windows. — Sverdrup 12:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The StruffIt .sit format does not use the resource fork at all. Only its self-expander format (.sea) contains a 68k-based executable in the resource fork. You can delete a .sea file's resource fork, you can still recover its contents by opening it with the StuffIt Expander. I guess ShrinkWrap follows the same logic.

The reason why Aladdin did not ship a Windows version that supports disk images, I guess, is a practical one. Since many traditional Mac files are at least supplemented by the resource fork, it is unwise to open them in any non-HFS-compatible machine. Because you could name an image "Me and My Dog" without adding the .jpg or .gif file extension on a Macintosh. If they ship a Windows version, they'll receive then thousand angry calls a day.

I wonder if there's a 3rd party solution to this problem. Otherwise, I may try a simulator. How I miss ardi.com and its Executor emulator. -- Toytoy 12:56, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

My suggestion: Open them on a Mac, burn the files to a CD. If you don't have access to any Macs, a lot copy-machine places will let you rent time on them for pretty cheap. --Fastfission 18:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Doolittle Raid

The article for the Doolittle Raid states that the raid occurred on 18 April 1942.

Under the heading "Aftermath" it states "Following the Tokyo Raid, the crews of two planes were missing. On August 15, 1942, it was learned from the Swiss Consulate General in Shanghai that eight American flyers were prisoners of the Japanese at Police Headquarters in that city."

There's a problem with dates there.

- and I think Wikipedia is better than Google for research!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the problem. I haven't been able to find an explicit date for the held-in-Shanghai thing, but August sounds about right, given the later mention of October seems well-confirmed. Did you perhaps misread April for August? I almost went to correct it before noticing that... Shimgray 13:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

how many books publish in the world a year?

I would like to know how many books publish in the world in 1 year time.. and..how about in a country? Where can I check it? thanks.~coral

There's no central database, so it's hard to be sure. An estimate for the US in 2003 reckoned 141,901 new books - this seems to have been generated by taking every new ISBN issued that year. As such, the number isn't accurate - it doesn't count non-ISBNed publications, and will count a lot of books two or three times, if different editions are published (if a publisher produces textually-identical copies in different covers, it gets a new ISBN). Another source gives ~1,600,000,000 individual copies sold in the US that year; I'm not sure what figure you're looking for.

Worldwide, about 4,000,000,000 copies in 2003 (personally I suspect this is too low) and around a million new books. source. Shimgray 15:57, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ecco mono year 1628 bust of christ

i have a bust of christ dated 1628 thats was my grandmothers. it states on the back of the bust which is in a frame and the head and neck come away from the main portion of the sclupture..it is one of six from an english collert of art.. the original carving was of wood by a artist otto reinvoldt i belive. from 1628.. the last name is hard to see. anyway the other five were destroyed and thisis the last peice. how do i fing out its authenticity.. deb wells

I would check with an antiques dealer/appraiser, or take it to an antiques shop/expert. Perhaps Antiques Roadshow? Flcelloguy | Give me a note! | Desk 16:26, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

well not sure if i know what im doing bere im new log on is moom53 Moon53 i asked the question on ecco mono trying to fogure out how to use this site.. im not sure if antique place would give me the right info since its more historical and antique road show ive already tried and still no response but im sure im one of many who ask questions

Nobody on the internet would be able to verify its authenticity or its worth without seeing it in person. If you think it is truly from the 17th century, you really need to take it to an appraiser. --Fastfission 18:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Just a thought, but perhaps someone at a local museum, or perhaps art/history department of a college or university could put you on the right track? Noodhoog 11:26, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

First day of school in New York City public schools

What's the first day of the 2005–2006 academic year in New York City public schools, specifically Stuyvesant? --anon.

Thursday, September 8. See NYC Public Schools Calendar. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 17:40, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mexican jumping beans

I've got some Mexican jumping beans and they're happily moving around in a box I put them in. Is there a proper way to take care of them so they continue jumping longer? --HappyCamper 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

All they need to survive is air (and non-extreme environmental conditions, of course...putting them at the top of mount everest or on top of a volcano would obviously be a bad idea). I doubt there are any simple ways to extend the period of time they "jump", but if there are I think I would have trouble seeing it as anything but abuse. Of course, if you intend on leaving them in a box where the moths cannot later escape from or keeping them in a place where there are no shrubs for the moths to lay eggs in, that's already abuse, so I guess it wouldn't matter to be more abusive. ¦ Reisio 20:05, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

I was wondering, for example, if these beans needed sunlight and water for the moths to mature. --HappyCamper 22:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you have a picture of them, could you post it on Mexican jumping bean, please? — Sebastian (talk) 08:46, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

I concur. By the way, can we have a picture of the moth? -- Toytoy 00:18, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

what are the different things found in micorsoft power point

• "Things"? You're going to have to be more specific than that. I've got no idea what you want to know. Alternatively, checking Microsoft PowerPoint might be helpful. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:58, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

More photos to identify

I think this is the last series of photos I've currently got on my hdd which need identifying. This time its a wierd fly thing:

File:100 6472.jpg Fly thing

File:100 6490.jpg Fly thing

As you can see it is very well camouflage on the wood planks. --Fir0002 10:35, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

It's kind of hard to determine scale. About how large is the insect? --CVaneg 22:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's about 5 or 6 cm. --Fir0002 07:02, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Where and when did you take these pictures? I want to know it so I can stay away from that place for the rest of my life. That bug gives me creeps. -- Toytoy 00:23, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

East Gippsland Australia, but don't let that thing put you off - it's the first time I've ever seen anything like it in the 8 yrs I've lived here. Australia is a beautiful place - one of the most beautifull places on earth, I think. --Fir0002 07:02, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

There are creepier things than that in Australia - but also many things more beautiful than elsewhere. ¦ Reisio 00:45, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

I think it's some sort of stonefly, but then I still suck at determining insects, so you should probably ignore me. :-) JRM · Talk 02:15, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

Looks like a dobsonfly, but that isn't found in Australia, apparently. Could be something similar. Tuf-Kat 16:03, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, sure looks like a dobsonfly to me, but it's not. It doesn't have the mandibles, and has hairy body and legs. Probably in the same family/order though. I can say it's almost certainly definitely in the fly genre. :) If you really need to know, contact someone at your local university entomology department. An Australian one would be most likely to know of course, but I know Michigan State University has a great entomology department that you could contact. - Taxman ^Talk 01:41, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

It's a dead ringer for one of these - right continent too :) DopefishJustin (･∀･) 20:58, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that's what it is. Thanks a lot! Tell me, how did you find it? --Fir0002 07:48, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

An adult antlion! So that's what those things look like past the larval stage. :-) I knew the antennae were wrong, but I couldn't think of anything better than a fly. I wonder what species it is, though. It looks quite distinctive. JRM · Talk 22:04, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Colloquial phrase in English: "the works"

I sometimes hear the phrase "it's the works" in a conversation. What does this phrase mean, and where did it originate from? What is its proper usage, and in what context does one use it? Thanks in advance. --HappyCamper 12:58, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

the works, refers to "everything", as in "the whole works", it basically means "all of it" or "everything" or "the full treatment". It comes from the term "works" referring to clockworks, watchworks or wheelworks -- or any 'works' of a machine: the guts of the machine. And usage of that word comes from the verb "work" as in "to do work"; as in those guts are doing the work of the machine. I don't really use the phrase "it's the works", maybe as in "that Wikipedia page on Boris Yeltsin is really detailled; it's the works." --Robojames 13:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"It's got this, that; y'know, the works" - I usually hear it like that, not as "It's the works.". ¦ Reisio 14:53, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Thanks for the responses! --HappyCamper 15:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

One of the most common uses of the expression is in reference to toppings or condiments on a food item, such as a pizza or a hot dog. A hot dog "with the works" means one topped with the full selection of condiments -- depending on the location, perhaps ketchup, mustard, pickle relish, onions, cheese, and bean chili. --FOo 23:05, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree with FOo -- the phrase "Gimme a hot dog with the works" means "give me a hot dog with all the condiments you have". Occasionally I hear another similar-sounding idiom -- "We just put up the Spanish web site, and the Italian translation is in the works". That calls to mind an assembly line. Work has already started on building a car (or a web site, or whatever), and you're just going to have to wait for it to go by a bunch of people (in the appropriate specialties) before the completed car (or web site, or whatever) comes out. --DavidCary 00:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Buckminsterfullerene

Would a kind synthetic chemist volunteer to make a small quantity of buckminsterfullerene, dissolve it in a vial of benzene, and take a picture of it for Wikipedia? What colour is the substance in and out of solution? --HappyCamper 15:00, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I think it takes too long to just make it especially for wikipedia, but if someone got it lying around, I think you've got a good chance, I'll check with my local organic chemistry department to see if they know. - Mgm|^(talk) 15:48, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
• I'm sure you know the solvent can influence the color of a solution, why do you want it to be dissolved in benzene? - Mgm|^(talk) 15:50, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I think a dilute solution of buckminsterfullerene in benzene (or even toulene) should give a pretty colour. It would be good for the article, as it would impress on the reader that buckminsterfullerene is indeed a novel substance. Even though it can be found in say, soot (and might even look like soot at first sight), it has some very unique chemical properties. --HappyCamper 23:49, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Q without U

I was browsing the Q without U section of the Hasbro Scrabble site and it got me wondering, aside from qwerty whose spelling is dictated by the placement of keys of the keyboard, how did these words make it into the English language? Is there some odd phoneme between K and Q that does not occur in the english language, or were they just anglicized oddly? --CVaneg 20:05, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Before entering the Latin alphabet, where it was pronounced "kw", the letter "Q" was used in Phoenician to represent a sound which doesn't occur in English (a voiceless uvular plosive or a velar ejective, if you must know), but does occur in many other languages, such as Arabic. Probably for that reason, 19th-century Orientalists started using it to transcribe words containing this sound; and, of course, in these languages it's often not followed by a "u" sound. So its use in English is essentially as a convention indicating to those "in the know" that it should be pronounced like a sound that isn't found in English, rather than like a normal "k". - Mustafaa 20:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Number of instruments in orchestra

I have always been told that the number of instruments (I believe different kinds of instruments) in an orchestra is 32. Where does that number come from?

Thank you, Gary

The number of instruments in an orchestra varies greatly. Standard orchestra has approximately 20 instruments, but the number can vary because of the different amounts of percussion. Here is a list taken from the article on orchestra:

• the strings (violins, violas, cellos, double basses),
• the woodwinds (flutes, piccolos, oboes, cor anglais, clarinets, bass clarinets, bassoons, contrabassoons)
• the brass (trumpets, trombones, french horns, bass trombones, tuba), and
• the percussion (timpani, snare drum, bass drum, celesta, piano, etc.).

In addition, most orchestras have a harp, and may also have different variations of wind instruments (Trumpet in Bb, Trumpet in F, etc). Also, some "odd" instruments- saxophone, euphonium, etc. may be used. Thus, the number varies. Hope this helps. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 21:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Information on Citric Acid

I ask help from the researchers for information on Citric Acid. I wish to know a neutralising agent for the citric acid present in Lemon If anybody can provide me with the information I would be really grateful to him

See citric acid for information. It's a weak acid. You could try mixing it with bicarbonate of soda. Milk is also slightly alkaline if you're cooking, but you should add sugar to sweeten lemon in puddings. Why do you want to do it? Dunc|☺ 22:36, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Printing to card?

Hum. I can print to most types of paper or thin card, easily enough, by using a laserjet or inkjet printer - standard desktop stuff. However, what options are available if I was to want to print to thick card - perhaps of a millimeter or two thickness? I suspect this'd cause most domestic printers to choke... thoughts? Shimgray 23:17, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Alps ( http://Alps.com/ ) used to sell a desktop printer that had a "straight-through paper feed" -- you can put completely rigid slabs of particleboard through them. I suspect other companies may have similar printers.
• At many local stores I see "transfer paper" -- you print on the transfer paper, then put the transfer paper against the thick card (or T-shirt or whatever else you couldn't get into the printer), and the heat of an iron would somehow melt the image off the transfer paper and get it to stick to whatever you were holding it against.
• ... other options ?

Hope that helps. --DavidCary 00:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, the transfer-paper option had occured to me, ditto other ways of trying to bind two layers together. (One eminently sensible suggestion was "Laminate the lot...", but that's horrendous from a tactile point of view)

Now I think about it I have used some of the "flat" printers; I'll see if I've still got access to one, and if not go and poke around print shops. Thanks. Shimgray 01:04, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about one of those inkjet printers that's been adapted to print CD labels? Like this Epson Stylus Photo R800. A rigid tray holding the CD goes right through the printer. You could replace the tray with your piece of cardboard. --Heron 19:08, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When and Where was Chuck Behler, former Megadeth drummer, Born?

When and where was Chuck Behler, former Megadeth drummer, born? Bandleader Dave Mustaine mentions Gar Samuelson, their previous drummer, had selected Behler "from the Detroit area" in the liner notes to the re-released version of So Far, So Good... So What!, but that doesn't necessarily mean Behler was born in Detroit.

I'll ask on the the official Megadeth forum as well. Mustaine himself won't answer now as he is on tour, but perhaps a moderator will. Not much is generally known about Behler. --slonDFW 00:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Does it snow in Australia?

As the title suggests, does it snow in Australia? What is the weather like in the wintertime? --HappyCamper 01:45, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it does snow in Australia, but only in the southeastern areas, where the climate is temperate. And then you'll want to head into the mountains for snow that actually sticks around. :-) (The Australian Antarctic Territory presumably doesn't count for the purposes of this discussion...) I'm sure the Aussie Wikipedians can give more detailed answers. JRM · Talk 02:10, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

It doesn't snow at sea level anywhere in Australia, but Australia has quite decent ski fields right along the Great Dividing Range. Being winter, you can see some of them on live webcams, e.g. [3]. As for what it's like in winter generally, well have a look at this map of daily maximum temperature, averaged over the last week. And keep in mind that most people live along the southeastern coastal fringe. -- Tim Starling 02:29, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Or this July average. -- Tim Starling 02:38, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Canberra is the only large Australian city (if Canberra counts as a large city...) where it ever snows in the center of town; even there it's only once every few years and it doesn't stay on the ground for very long. There are virtually no permanent settlements, aside from ski resorts, in regions where there is snow on the ground for significant periods. --Robert Merkel 02:44, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The townships of Omeo and Benambra (close to Mt Hotham) sometimes have snow laying around for days. --Fir0002 07:17, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

I said "virtually no"; my family is from Tallangatta, so I used to live reasonably close to most of the places in mainland Australia where it does snow regularly. Aside from the ski resorts, you've got Omeo, population 300. Benambra, population 150. To that you could also throw in the thriving metropolises of Dargo (maybe 100), Cabramurra (160 or so, and the most regularly snowbound at an altitude of nearly 1500 metres), and maybe Woods Point (30-50 residents). The biggest one which I did miss was Jindabyne, a town with about 2500 permanent residents, which does get regular light snow, if not particularly long-lasting, in winter. Throw in a few locations in Tasmania, probably. By the way, I've visited all of these places; all of them are very pretty and great fun for summer Sunday drive :) --Robert Merkel 07:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for all the responses everyone! It makes Australia sound like a wonderful place :-) --HappyCamper 05:06, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I was there during June and July a few years ago on vacation; as I understand it, that's winter there. If that was mid-winter, compared to an Eastern US winter, it's not just wonderful, it's paradise. -- Essjay · Talk 05:35, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but you have to have lived somewhere where you have gotten 4 or more feet of snow to truly appreciate that :). I remember once when I was small getting over 5 feet. We weren't allowed outside the house for worry we would get lost. Now of course there are areas that get that all the time, but man can you have some fun building snow forts and digging tunnels when a lot of snow gets piled up. - Taxman ^Talk 01:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Designer's chair

I remember there was a strange chair sold in the 1980s or 1990s. You did not sit on that chair, your body is supported on your knees and you have to keep your upper body straight using your back muscles. What was the name of that chair? -- Toytoy 03:57, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Do you mean a kneeling chair? Our article is only a stub, but Google gave good results for the words "kneeling" and "chair". -Rholton 04:38, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

And they still sell them: I bought one last year. Joyous 16:15, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Ergonomic chair.

Best known one is probably the HAG Balans kneeling chair. Fuzheado | Talk 03:23, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Origin of "Mangosteen, Queen of Fruit"

Does anyone know when the phrase, "mangosteen, queen of fruit" was first coined, and in what media was it recorded? It was not David Fairchild. And in a similar vein, does anyone know if there is any actual written document from the 19th century that records the specific rewards that Queen Elizabeth allegedly offered for the mangosteen?

First off, Elizabeth I of England (often referred to as simply Queen Elizabeth) was queen between 1558 and 1603, i.e. for the 16th and 17th centuries. Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom has been queen since 1953, i.e. for the 20th and 21st centuries. There are various queens consort listed at Queen Elizabeth and those do cover the 19th century however.

Well, maybe he means Queen Victoria. Ornil 04:43, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

douglas county, Missouri

Iwould like a map of douglas county, Mo. I am trying to do research on a family (Freemam) and need to know how to get around so I can visit the cemetaries in the county. If you can't help do you know where i may get one. thank you svw@mchsi.com

If you're looking for an online map you can go to [www.mapquest.com Mapquest] and enter the address. If it's a paper state or county map you're looking for, I'd try a welcome center in the state (they usually have them at Interstate rest stops) which should have free local maps. Also, the county courthouse in Douglas County will probably have county maps available. -- Essjay · Talk 12:56, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Google maps is also good for driving directions: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=mansfield%20missouri%20to%20ava%20missouri ¦ Reisio 14:46, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

Birthdate of Adam

What date would you give for the birth of Adam, the first human? What about the birthdate of Eve?

Thank you,

Lori Harasta

Obviously you have to make certain assumptions here, but try 28 October 4004 BC according to Ussher calendar. DJ Clayworth 13:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You may want to look at Y-chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve. Note however that human population was never, ever, 2 but rather these are the patrilineal and matrilineal respectively shared ancestors of us all. They also lived a long time apart. Dunc|☺ 17:11, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How do I burn paper in a small apartment?

Every time I've tried to burn a bunch of old receipts in my apartment, I end up ruining the pot I do it in. Since I'm burning private stuff, I can't just go out to a BBQ grill.

Is there anyway to make a controlled fire inside an apartment on my stove?

Have you considered buying a paper shredder? Unless you're trying to destroy top secret stuff, that should be quite sufficient and a lot less messy. More environmentally friendly too. --W(t) 16:04, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

• Well, since you already have one ruined pot, why don't you just use that one over and over? --CVaneg 16:12, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have read the sink is a good place, but I haven't tried it. It should work in a pot, though. Try to burn it in smaller units. And use pots made of stainless steel.--Fenice 16:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, just go out and buy something meant for burning stuff in if you're going to be doing this a lot. I don't trust paper shredders. :) ¦ Reisio 16:22, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

If you have a stove, you can brown or blacken your receipts over the stove. Hold the pieces of paper over the heating element, preferably with tongs so you avoid burning yourself. Once they are sufficiently darkened, get a plastic container and rub the burnt papers between your palms so that the paper crumbs will fall into the box. Make sure the crumbs are quite small. Mix with some water and a small bit of detergent - then flush down the drain. A bit more messy, but saves having to start a bonfire in your kitchen. You want to limit the fumes from paper to be stuck in your apartment, especially if you are burning chemically treated papers, like photographs and laminated cards. --HappyCamper 17:00, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Of course, you need not answer this, but Happy Camper - how is it that you are such an expert on this matter??? curious, Mothperson 01:24, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not an expert - just a Wikipedian :-) --HappyCamper 18:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How about acid? Palm probss 02:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Acid would just wet the paper. Well I suppose thast concentrated Sulfuric acid would dehydrate it, but who would want to use that stuff? Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 15:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A chemist with an aptitude for teaching might. You'd need a catalyst to impress students though :-) --HappyCamper 18:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You could just eat the stupid things, come on, who hasn't eaten paper? Well, I guess I'm alone there. 67.160.39.151 03:24, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have you ever heard of papier-mâché? Buy yourself a paper shredder and a powerful food processor or a blender and a sculpture How-To book, you'll become the top artist of your town in six months. (Unless there's another guy who has more secrets than you.) -- Toytoy 06:00, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

If it's just one or two receipts at a time why not just flush them down the toilet? Dismas 18:04, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

how can i find out what prison a person is being sent to?

You really need to add more details if you want an answer. Which country/state are you in for starters?Lisiate 03:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you live in the US, then you probably want to contact your local department of corrections, or equivalent (most of them are named something like "Department of Corrections" or "Department of Correctional Services", Google can help you find the relevant one to your state). Once you've done that, most websites will tell you how to find a prisoner. For example, if you live in Florida, you'd look here. Alternatively, if you're looking for someone who was convicted of a federal crime this site would probably be more what you're looking for. From the way you state your question, I should warn that these databases are probably not 100% up to date, so it may be that a new prisoner won't be in the system for a while or a prisoner who has been transferred from one prison to another may not have up to date information--CVaneg 03:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Palm 500 sync with Thunderbird

I am migrating from Outlook on Win2k to Thunderbird on Win2k. I used to sync my email inbox with Outhouse, and want to do the same for Thunderbird. I am of the opinion that this has nothing to do with the address book / contacts issue, which is all I can find on the web. Any help would be gratfully recieved. Palm probss 02:25, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Help needed for bewildered synth player

Alright, I own a Yamaha portatone PSR-230 synth keyboard, alright? It's specs can be found here:

http://achamilton.co.uk/PSR280.htm

Now, this is my problem, would it be possible for me to record something, then play it back on my keyboard, at the varying pitches? Here's an example, I didn't explain it very well.

http://www.archivestowearpantsto.com/tracks/0047_kazookazookazookazookazoo.mp3

So, tell me, could my synth do that? and if it can, tell me how, tell me what I need to buy, where I hook it up, anything, It's just so cool. English helps too, if for any reason, you think I wouldn't be able to understand something, write it out in laymans terms, I'm a sort of "Plug in and play" sort of guy, you know? Thanks in advance!

-67.160.39.151 03:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So it sounds like what you want to do is record something (say a kazoo note) and then play it back at different pitches according to which key you play on the keyboard? I don't think the Portatone can do that by itself. If you have MIDI cables for your keyboard, what you should probably try is recording the sample you want into your computer, then using a MIDI sequencer or sampler program to handle the playback. It's easier than it sounds.

Say you connect the keyboard to the computer with MIDI cables. Then, you record your sample into the computer and load it into some MIDI-based sampler. You set the Sampler program to receive on MIDI channel 1, and set the Portatone to transmit on MIDI channel 1. Then, when you play keyboard notes, the Portatone will tell the computer program to play the sample at the appropriate frequency. I can't give you precise examples of software to try, since I don't use Windows systems, but I own a Portatone, and I use it to control a couple of drum machines sometimes, so it shouldn't be too hard to make it control a sampling program. Oh yeah, and you asked about equipment you'd need. A microphone (for recording), a set of MIDI cables (they come in pairs), and a soundcard that has MIDI ports. If your sound card has a joystick port, you can buy a set of MIDI cables that plugs into that instead. If you don't want to use your computer at all, you can instead get a real sampler (a piece of hardware which does exactly what you want), but they're expensive and sometimes tricky. Jeeves 03:28, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

PERFECT, thank you so much for that very punctual response, I understood every word of it, my dad is buying me a soundcard within the next... eventually, so I guess I'm more or less set, ah, this is going to be great! I'm giddy just thinking of the possibilities!

-67.160.39.151 03:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I forgot to mention a third possibility. You could probably get up and running faster with a program called ModPlug Tracker, which is free for download. Once you have recorded your kazoo (or whatever) into a WAV file on your computer, you can load it into ModPlug as a sample and immediately start playing notes. Trackers are actually used to make full songs, by specifying which sample to play at which frequency on which beat. The interface takes some getting used to, but is very functional once you get the hang of it. I believe you can control ModPlug with a MIDI keyboard also, but you don't have to — you can enter in the melodies you want directly from your computer's keyboard. If you run into trouble with this stuff, or have more specific questions about how to get something to work, please feel free to email me or leave a note on my Talk page; I do this stuff all the time. Good luck. = ) Jeeves 07:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

God, thank you so much, in a couple of months, with a new soundcard and after I record some samples, I'll be able to pull a Ferris Beuller without even trying! :) Thanks!

67.160.39.151 00:43, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

19th century music box melody

I heard this melody from a beautiful 19th century music box:

File:19th century musicbox melody.PNG

Any ideas what it could be? (I hope I remember it correctly.) — Sebastian (talk) 03:59, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

How did you output this music? It's amazing! -- Toytoy 07:48, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

I used an old evaluation version of Cakewalk Pro Audio and took a screen shot. — Sebastian (talk) 07:55, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

There's also ABCPlus], which is a phenomenal tool for typesetting music with a minimum of hassle, if you're into that sort of thing. It's also open-source! = ) Jeeves 07:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Musicpedia musichound search using Parson's code "*DUDDDUDDUUUUUD" finds only one EXACT hit, and a cursory glance at the many other "possibles" doesn't look promising, though you may want to have a look yourself. (There may be fewer if you include the keyword WALTZ in the search. - Nunh-huh 08:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the link — it's a great idea to simplify it like this. I entered the whole code ("DUDDDUDDUUUUUDrdudddduduududd") but didn't see anything in the music they showed. As for waltz: It doesn't really have the waltz feel (actually I considered 6/8), but that may be because it's a music box. — Sebastian (talk) 08:24, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Music boxes tend not to follow the original contour of the music because it's easier to manufacture the simplified tone. --HappyCamper 11:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It bears a very striking resemblance to the famous duet "Verranna a te sull' aure" from Gaetano Donizetti's Lucia di Lammermoor:

I'd put money on it being that. If you wanted to check further, you could probably find a sample of it on some CD retailer's website.

My image is almost certainly not in the right key, and possibly not in the right time signature, by the way (I agree 6/8 is about as likely as 3/4)--I just did it like this so the resemblance to your original is more obvious (and also because I'm too lazy to find a score).--Camembert 16:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot - this is it! (Interesting, how it mutated in my brain. Make that a party game: Chinese hums  ;-) — Sebastian (talk) 21:37, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

David Bowie song

In the Bowie song The Man Who Sold The World (song), what is the annoying instrument that goes in the background and sounds kinda like a duck? I've heard it in quite a few songs, and each time I think the song would sound better without it. Nirvana's version is better than David's, methinks --Wonderfool t(c)e)

Think it's probably a güiro (Images). ¦ Reisio 13:35, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

That brings me back - we played them in infant school. I was head xylophonist back in those days, so i didnt get to shine on the guiro --Wonderfool t(c)e)

What is the history of the Ethene industry?

I am doing an assignment on the ethene industry and I am having trouble finding information on ethene, such as when it was first manufactured/how and when newer methods were first used ie fractional distillation. And I have tried searching using ethylene and I am still coming up blank. Thanx in advance, Jon Wednesday, June 22 2005

ask for some information about World Intangible Heritage

Dear editors, I am a college student in China,and now I am working with a project to compile a book about World Cutural Heritage.Now what we possess are some translated Chinese editions of this topic.So I am curious if you are kind enough to give me some help or rather some hint on this in the form of Websites or so.Very appreciated.

World Heritage Site here are some places chosen by UNESCO. MeltBanana 23:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Intangible heritage refers to non-permanent traces of the past, things like historic street markets which only exist when people are buying and selling, folk music or pub names. UNESCO have a register here which is largely devoted to artisans and their methods. A general introduction to international heritage management issues is Archaeological Heritage Management in the Modern World Clere H (ed), Routledge 1989, ISBN 0415214483. adamsan 09:06, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

help identifying relatives of Juana D'Armagnac

(cross-posted from Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)#identifying someone)

I have heard. or read, that Juana D'Armagnac, Princess of Aragon, who married Matthieu de Foix did not, after all, die childless but that there was a son, nicknamed "Juan Franchos", who left for Scandinavia and produced two daughters there.

Is there any verifiation of this highly romantic event?

It is highly conceivable that an heir from the first marriage for political reasons may have been hidden, or other-wise disposed of, in favor of expected heirs from the second marriage with Violant de Bar.

The only information on this that I have found has come fom Finn Asbjorn Wang of Norway but I have lost contact with this source.

Identify this household tool

I found this, left by the previous tennant of my apartment. It looks like a can opener, it's about the size of a can opener, but it can't open cans. I found it in a drawer with a can opener and aluminium foil, etc. I have no idea what it is, does anyone? I put a quarter on the scanner bed just so you can get an idea of the size. Thanks! --Robojames 14:47, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A nutcracker? --Wonderfool t(c)e) 14:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looks like a can opener to me. Are you sure it can't open cans or does a poor workman always blame his tools? Dunc|☺ 15:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It looks like a garlic press to me. --Mothperson 15:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) And a pretty good one. Peel the cloves, put in the sieve-like thing, and crush away. Mothperson 15:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It absolutely can not open cans. There's nothing sharp to pierce the can. And it's not a nutcracker, although it could be used to crack nuts. And it doesn't look like a garlic press... there's no sieve-like thing on it. (I need to get a better picture of this) The functional part seems to be at the top (left in photo) it's got these small flat metal bits on the top... one of them lifts up when you open the handle, and the other two stay put. It's like the following:

Open    Closed
]         ]
   [       [
]         ]

It looks like it could be used to press buttons on something, but i don't know. --Robojames 15:53, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That little thingamabob with the holes - the round thingy - that's what I meant by the sieve. You put the clove in there, and then your ] [ ] action presses the garlic into mush. Mothperson 15:58, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I swear this is what it is. I have one. I didn't immediately recognize it because I haven't used it for years. Mincing with a nice knife is more satisfying. Mothperson 16:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No, it's not a garlic press, it doesn't look like any garlic press I've seen, and there's no way this could be used as a garlic press. The 'press' part on this is too small and narrow and doesn't really open wide enough to fit a piece of garlic in there. It only opens about 1cm, if that. Robojames 16:08, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It might just be a device for picking up pots - like a detachable handle if you will. If you've seen Knife in the Water, you know what I mean. ¦ Reisio 16:18, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Yeah, perhaps like part of a trangia cooker. Does it look like this? Dunc|☺ 17:29, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yup, I go with the handle theory. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I think you're right, it seems like it'd be perfect for picking up pots. And it is very similar to that picture. Awesome! Thanks folks! Robojames 18:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Some sort of riveter? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:19, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have a crimping tool that wraps flat metal bands around wire fence panels to hold the panels together. Based on the description of the "head" piece open and closed, this may be some type of crimping tool. But what do you crimp in a kitchen?

• A broken can opener?--Fenice 17:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• It's a pan handle. [4]. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 19:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why don't wild pidgeons have uniform coloration?

All wild birds seem to have uniform coloration. Ravens are always black, robins always have red breasts. But with pidgeons no two are ever alike. What's up with that? -anon

• Assuming, you're talking about pigeons, I guess it's so they can recognize each other. It's probably something in their DNA. I'll leave it to ornithologists to give a more detailed answer. - Mgm|^(talk) 17:26, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
• Not that I'm an ornithologist, but our article on Rock doves (from which we get feral pigeons) says that the difference in plumages is due to the release and subsequent crossbreeding of other domesticated birds. Apparently there is a distinctive plumage for rock doves, but it's not so easy to find purebred ones, especially in urban centers --CVaneg 18:19, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Name Signing

How do you sign your name after adding a comment on someones talk page?

Read "How to ask a question" at the top of this page. ¦ Reisio 18:06, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Use four tildes (those wavy things). On my keyboard the tilde is on the hash key. Four tildes is best because three tildes gives your username only, but four adds the date as well - Adrian Pingstone 18:39, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've made a small edit to the above for clarification. Mgm|^(talk) 19:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

• On my keyboard the tilde is to the left of the "1". - Mgm|^(talk) 19:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

You can also click on the scribbly button thingy (located 2nd from the left) in the window where after you press edit. --HappyCamper 21:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Here's what tildes look like, just for your information: ~~~~ . Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:47, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A special kind of problem solving in which we already know all the possible solutions or choices is what?

Easy? JRM · Talk 23:37, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Wonderful! Do me a favour and factor

25195908475657893494027183240048398571429282126204032027777137836043662020707595556264018525880784406918290641249515082189298559149176184502808489120072844992687392807287776735971418347270261896375014971824691165077613379859095700097330459748808428401797429100642458691817195118746121515172654632282216869987549182422433637259085141865462043576798423387184774447920739934236584823824281198163815010674810451660377306056201619676256133844143603833904414952634432190114657544454178424020924616515723350778707749817125772467962926386356373289912154831438167899885040445364023527381951378636564391212010397122822120720357

for me, will you? thanks.

Seriously though, I'm not sure there's a name for such problems, as deep down you can always enumerate all the possible inputs. (Of course if you already know all the solutions to a problem it's called "solved"). --W(t) 23:46, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Factorization is easy. I only have to successively divide the number by all numbers smaller than it and record them if they don't leave a remainder. Perfectly finitistic recipe, simple steps. Of course, getting a way of factorizing that is quick for large inputs is another matter. Incidentally, I have found a truly marvelous factorization of the number you gave, but unfortunately this wiki page is too small to contain it.

The interpretation you seem to take I cannot reconcile with the original question. For any problem that's well-defined, you of course know all possible solutions or choices. If you didn't, you wouldn't have a problem—you'd have some ill-defined mystery; we not only don't know how to obtain an outcome, but we wouldn't even know what an outcome is! There is no special name for this because it's not a special "kind" of problem.

Conversely, for any "problem", you of course know the complete range of the inputs, otherwise it would be quite hard to even define the problem. The observation that some ranges are impossible to pin down (in that there is no algorithm that will determine whether a given input is in the range) is what gives you undecidability. But I'm starting to think that maybe the original poster was hinting at a deterministic algorithm. JRM · Talk 03:24, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

I beg to differ slightly on the opinion of factorization. The concept of factorization is easy, but to actually do it is extremely hard for large numbers. In fact, many public key cryptosystems are fundamentally based on the difficulty of factorization of large numbers. An example of this is RSA. Yes, you could iterate through all the factors, there there are simply too many of them to do so one at a time. --HappyCamper 04:05, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The thing that makes such a large number hard to factor is that it has two factors, both of which are very, very large primes. As far as cryptology goes, a company can publish the product of the primes and keep the two prime factors secret so that anyone can send an encrypted message but only the company can decode it. This is especially useful for things such as credit card numbers on the internet. --Think Fast 13:54, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if that number really is a product of 2 primes, or if it was just a random number...check out

this link which suggests that the number be factored to cure some boredom. --HappyCamper 20:09, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Windex on a CRT?

The web (as brought to us by google[5]) is full of contradictory information about whether or not Windex (or other ammonia based glass cleaners) are safe to use on a CRT or TV screen. The screen's just glass, right? Is the anti-glare coating really likely to come off? My fiancé just windexed my TV, and there seems to be no harm done - are the effects cumulative? Any experts out there? Key45 22:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You should adhere to the cleaning guidelines that are undoubtedly in your owner's manual. I also hear that plain water can be used to clean stuff - who knew. :p ¦ Reisio 23:16, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

You cannot use it on an LCD screen unless you want to ruin it (it might look fine at first, but your screen will quickly degrade if you repeat the procedure). Your Google query doesn't distinguish between screen types.

Dust can easily be removed by a soft, perhaps slightly damp cloth. Ammonia-based cleaners are fine on plain glass, but some CRT screens have an anti-glare coating that does not respond well to ammonia. An occasional cleaning will really not have a devastating effect (and you usually don't sit close enough to a TV to notice any small change like that) but yes, the effects are cumulative. There are plenty of (glass) cleaners out there that do not contain ammonia which should be perfectly safe, if ordinary water won't do it (such as with those really greasy fingerprints new users tend to leave. :-) JRM · Talk 23:36, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

I'm kind of partial to washing up liquid for cleaning CRTs. It deals with grease and such and doesn't stripe (as long as you wash with clean water and then dry off afterwards). --W(t) 23:47, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Copyright: Mugs shots and other images created by the Texas state government

Such as this one of Ángel "The Railroad Killer" Reséndiz, for example. Any idea what their copyright status is? Shem^(talk) 02:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Could you link to the page you got the image from? ¦ Reisio 02:26, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Surely. This page [6], courtesy this page [7]. Shem^(talk) 02:34, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Only publications of the US federal government and the State of California are public domain (or even otherwise "free"). -- Cyrius|✎ 02:50, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Any exceptions where strictly mug shots are concerned, that you know of? Shem^(talk) 02:57, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

None that I know of. The combination of copyright issues with public records makes my skin crawl at the thought of lawyers. -- Cyrius|✎ 06:35, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, ugh. Ah well. Shem^(talk) 08:46, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Brach's Rocks dino

The commercials for Brach's Rocks candy featured a dinosaur character who ate these pieces of mineral candy. I can't remember whether his name was Rocky B or Rocky D. Does anybody know the name? Wiwaxia 04:26, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Even More Unident photos

You guys must be getting sick of me, but anyway:

An Unident Moth/butterfly

Unident spider (he lives inside a leaf

Thanks for your kind help --Fir0002 09:05, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

The spider looks like some version of the family Araneidae. The article Orb-weaver spider mentions an Australian member of the family that doesn't spin a web. (Third paragraph.) The body type and coloration is similar to Araneus marmoreus, but that particluar example is from Ohio (US). I'm no arachnologist, but that would be my guess. (Frankly, they give me the creepy-crawlies.) -- Essjay · Talk 10:17, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

From [8]: "Phonognatha graeffei, leaf-curling or leaf-rolling spider, builds an orb web with a curled leaf retreat or sometimes a snail shell in the upper part of the web." Go to the very bottom of the page, and there are several pictures of very similar looking spiders. Could this be it? -- Essjay · Talk 10:31, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I've been wondering all along, what is Unident anyway? And that thing certainly is a mothy looking butterfly. Except the antennae are signature butterfly ones and you see it during the day, which according to Difference between a butterfly and a moth is another butterfly characteristic. That's all I've got for you without seeing it opened to see the wing markings. Well, that in addition to the fact I only know North American insects for the most part. - Taxman ^Talk 18:09, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I think "unident" is unidentified. -- Essjay · Talk 18:18, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Community consensus vote

Do Fir0002's pictures make the Reference Desk a better, more interesting place?

Yes - definitely!! :) -- Show your support by adding your name to the list!

• HappyCamper 12:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes -- it's like a treasure hunt.

• Reisio 14:10, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Although I can only speak for myself, I think your pictures are a great addition to the reference desk. It's fascinating to see how people share their thoughts about the pictures, and it encourages interesting questions to be asked on the reference desk!

Of course, if the community feels that this little "vote" here needs to be removed, please feel free to do so; I have no objections to it. I just thought it would be nice to show how appreciative we are of Fir0002's picture taking efforts. :-) --HappyCamper 12:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Standard for Purity of Gold

In India at present the purity of gold is being mentioned as "91.6 KDM". I would like to know what exactly these words mean.

Thanks Srinivas

• "KDM: Gold Jewelry from some places is / was marked with a KDM stamp which means that the Jewelry was soldered with Cadmium. Cadmium called 'Kadium' in some places and marked KDM was traditionally used in soldering of gold jewelry for its good properties of liquidity and melting at lower temperatures, which is not the case any more as Cadmium is known to create toxic fumes when melted, which are very dangerous to health, and may be harmful to humans, some countries have banned the use of Cadmium from use, from workshops. Jewelers in many parts of the world now use gold solders, now which are free from Cadmium." I'm assuming the number in front is the percentage of cadmium, but that's a guess. (source) - Mgm|^(talk) 11:06, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
• Actually, I would imagine the gold is 91.6% pure (916/1000), that is almost 22 carat gold. The only other alternative would be that the Cadmium was assayed at 91.6/1000. --Gareth Hughes 11:38, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia n career

Is there any way that being on Wikipedia can help in a career? Has anyone put down their Wikipedia sysophood or bureaucracy down on a CV? Would jobs be interested if I held a position of power in the Wikimedia ladder? Could you say that this counts as charity work or volunteering? And would the employer care? --Wonderfool t(c)e) 12:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I put it on my CV as an interest. It's certainly how I spend of lot of my leisure time. I think it shows that I'm literate, and want to improve both myself and the world. Bovlb 13:35, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

By the way, I don't list my user name, and I've never been asked for it. Bovlb 14:54, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

In my job, for promotions we prepare long documents describing all aspects of our scholarly activity. In addition to research and writing of peer reviewed journal articles, this can include things that involve communicating science to non-specialists, such as writing popular press articles, or programs to interest kids in science. I considered including a mention of my Wikipedia activity, but decided against it. One reason was that I often contribute to articles on subjects that might make my employer uncomfortable (comic books, for example). I wouldn't enjoy this as much if I had to stick only to work related topics.

As to your other question, I personally consider it valuable volunteer work, but I've never spoken about it that way. I'm not interested in getting into an argument on the subject with someone who doesn't 'get' Wikipedia. ike9898 14:04, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I too have avoided mentioning my Wikipedia activities in my career. As a tenured professor, I enjoy a great deal of freedom in what I can and can't do without recourse, but frankly, I don't want any mistakes here to catch up with me professionally. Further, I don't know how well my university, and my department particularly, would take to me offering up my expertise for free. (Not to mention my publishers!) But, I think if you "don't have anything to worry about" then you should mention it; it may give you credibility as a writer (particularly if you contribute to scholarly subjects) that you couldn't get elsewhere. -- Essjay · Talk 14:12, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

That's true. If you're online and use a screenname, you can be bad or you can be extremely helpful. If you disclose your true identity, people might expect you to act the way you do things online. That could mean trouble. -- Toytoy 15:42, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

• I'd say it depends on what position you are applying for. Sysop-hood includes only few privileges here and if you try to sell that off as an important position a personnel officer who knows wikipedia might even think you're exaggerating. If he or she doesn't, it might impress them. In general: of course Wikipedia is important volunteer work. You should put in on your CV. To most jobs it'll be more relevant than collecting stamps or ballet-dancing in your spare time. In any case, you should instrumentalize your user page for self-marketing and prepare it so as to reflect you're the perfect person for the job (and to reflect that the job is perfect for you). It is very unlikely that he or she will check every single contribution. Probably he or she will not know anything at all about wikipedia and you might have to provide the URL of your user page if they ask. Summarize your contributions on your user-page and post praise/barnstars from other users.--Fenice 16:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In the interview you can also stress how much you have learned on wikipedia in terms of interpersonal skills. Dealing with edit wars etc. and still being productive as a team is quite demanding and for most jobs interpersonal skills are part of the job profile nowadays.--Fenice 17:09, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

CV? This some sort of resume'? Dismas 18:16, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Curriculum vitae - British English (well, Latin) for résumé. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Desktop publishing

I'm looking for a destop publisher that can be used by a group of six, or so, people to produce a community magazine. As it's a community venture, we are not interested in paying a lot of money for software licences. However, it has to be easy to use (some are not too confident), and preferably able to run on different systems (Linux, Mac OS and MS Win). I know it's asking a lot, and I don't expect that there is a piece of software that is perfect for us, but is there anything that comes close? --Gareth Hughes 12:37, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

For a relatively simple publication, you might consider Open Office. The word processor component, while nowhere near as powerful as, say, Adobe Pagemaker, is very flexible and would probably meet the needs of a community magazine. (I've used it for similar projects myself.) It is free (open source) and works with Windows, Mac, Linux, Solaris, and FreeBSD. amysayrawr 13:28, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Amy. I use OO-Writer as my main wordprocessor, but I've never used it to deal with layouts, maybe I should have a play with it. Do you have any thoughts about which version to use? The beta version uses OpenDocument file formats. --Gareth Hughes 15:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hans Zwie(i)d(e)neck von Sudenhorst

Anybody know the correct name of this german fellow Hans Zwieidneck von Sudenhorst and Hans Zwiedeneck von Sudenhorst. He needs merging in one von Sudenhorst but I don't know if one is a spelling error or merely the vagaries of german translation. Google doesn't help as it is a hall of mirrors. MeltBanana 13:57, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I don't think "iei" is a common combination in German. DJ Clayworth 14:13, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Library of Congress has him as "Zwiedineck-Südenhorst, Hans von, 1845-1906", if that's any help. Shimgray 14:23, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1911 mirrors have him as both Hans Zwiedeneck von Sudenhorst and as Hans Zwiedineck von Sudenhorst (see [9]). Confusingly, he also seems to appear as Hans von Zwiedeneck-Sudenhorst (see the end of [10]. Hans Zwieidneck von Sudenhorst is, however, almost certainly wrong. --OpenToppedBus - Talk 14:31, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I've checked on de.wikipedia - they don't have Hans, but they do have an entry for "Otto von Zwiedineck-Südenhorst" Shimgray 14:44, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fertility and age

Does WP have an article about the ages women have had kids in the past and do now? For example, the BBC's "Infertility time bomb" warning says they were intended to have kids late teens/early twenties.--anon

Origin of the phrase "bleed or bled like stink"

I have worked in a hospital operating room for 25 years and have heard this phrase used to describe hemorrhage, but no one has ever been able to explain the origin of the phrase. Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you, marija

I wouldn't be surprised if it, like many other phrases, was the work of the noble anonymous phraseologist (and the masses of unoriginal pukes that must've been around to hear it and propagate it [or merely the masses that knew a good phrase when they heard it]). The meaning seems simple enough: bleeding that spreads out a lot, like a terrible stink. Maybe related to "blow like stink". I'm not a medicine-related-literature buff, though; perhaps there is some interesting text out there that this came from. 2¢ ¦ Reisio 18:03, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

According to the [Oxford English Dictionary|OED], "like stink" is a pretty generic modifier meaning 'intensely' or 'furiously' ie: "If I see a spider, I'm gonna run like stink". It has nothing really to do with odour, my guess is that "stink" is just substituted for to censor hell (as an expletive)as in changing "mad as hell" to "mad as stink". Robojames 20:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Where did Cane's wife come from?

After Cane killed Abel and left his home with Adam and Eve, he went to "the land of Nod," where he met the woman he would marry. Where did she come from?

Iirc, Adam and Eve lived many hundreds of years and had ridiculous amounts of children. She came from Adam and Eve one way or another; that's sort of the entire point of Adam & Eve. ¦ Reisio 20:37, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)