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WP:RD/L C #eee #f5f5f5 #eee #aaa #aaa #aaa #00f #00f #000 #00f language Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language Language WP:RD/L

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October 31

Possible translation, English to French or Italian

I gave a new user (see User talk:Dariobazec a standard Wikipedia welcome message, and then a personalized message explaining why I reverted their edit. The primary reason was the link wasn't in English, and I also mentioned out COI policy because the user name is the same as the author of the linked page. Anyway, flash forward 2 weeks, and the user has contacted my by e-mail and ask if I could translate my message into French or Italian. I personally cannot do that, so I am here to see if anyone wants to give it a try. The user has not continued to edit here, and since English isn't their primary language, they may not contribute much in the future, so the importance of getting my message across to them isn't of the upmost. Thanks for your consideration.-Andrew c ^[talk] 01:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Then you could perhaps make your comment in French rather short and to the point - ""Le lien externe n'est pas en anglais, et il me semble que vous avez un conflit d'intérêt." (The external link isn't in English, and it seems to me that you have a conflict of interest.) Xn4 02:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

What is the adjective for something or someone from Hong Kong?

--166.121.36.10 06:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The Hong Konger Front uses "Hong Konger". "Hong Kongese" gets a fair number of Google hits, although a lot of them are simply people asking if that's the right word, rather than confidently using it. "Hong Kongian" and "Hong Kongish" get some hits too. It's probably most common to just use "Hong Kong" attributively (as in "He's a Hong Kong businessman"; "the Hong Kong government"). —Angr 06:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Our list of adjectival forms of place names, which in pertinent part comes, at least apparently, from Ethnologue gives "Hongkonger" (alternatively, "Hong Konger") as the usual demonym; Angr is, though, as ever, right, I'd imagine, about the most common usage. Joe 03:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Our article Hongkongers claims "Recently, the word 'Hongkongese' is also found and is getting more popular to describe the unique local culture of Hong Kong or to refer to Hongkongers". It refers us to an online article by Angela Poon and Jenny Wong called Struggling for Democracy Under China: The Implications of a Politicised 'Hongkongese' Identity Xn4 03:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Driving while intoxicated

Here in the States it seems to be most common for people to call driving a car while intoxicated by alcohol "drunk driving". I always took this to be a shortened form of "drunken driving" which kind of made sense to me. Recently I just learned that in some places it's more common to call it "drink driving", which, to me, sounds like someone got into a very large brandy snifter and was driving it from place to place. So, why did the phrase "drink driving" come about? Dismas|^(talk) 08:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Per the article driving under the influence, "drunk driving" is an American term, and "drink driving" is primarily British and Australian. szyslak 09:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

We definitely call it "drink driving" here in the UK, not sure why but it might be something to do with government safety campaigns urging people not to "Drink & Drive". "Drunk driving" is not a commonly used term here.GaryReggae 11:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The distinction exists as a disincentive. Otherwise, people might take "drunk driving" to mean "driving when completely plastered" as opposed to "driving under the influence of alcohol", for which a much smaller alcohol intake is required. 80.254.147.52 11:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, "drink driving" sounds odd grammatically to the American ear. It's funny, isn't it, how basic differences in the way a word is understood and used in different places sometimes surface only like this. Yanks have probably heard Brits and Ozzies use "drink" lots of times without realizing they sometimes meant something subtly different than (to) what we heard. And I've never had much luck getting a good answer from the other side as to the difference, as I'm sure they haven't, either. We have trouble getting our heads around the idea that a common word could be interpreted any other way than ours. I just looked in the OED to try to get a handle on this, and the best I could come up with was "drink" in the sense seen in "He took to drink after the untimely death of his hamster." (Not an OED example.) There is also a sense, "We had a big drink last night", which means not "We had a large one" but "We all got very drunk." --Milkbreath 12:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

In fact, in the UK we have "driving with excess alcohol in the blood" - that is to say, the prosecution does not have to demonstrate that driving was affected or influenced by drink, simply that the accused had alcohol in their system above a statutorily defined limit. This is not to be construed as legal advice and is in no way intended as such. It is merely a statement of my personal understanding of the law, and is offered on an "as is" basis, with no warranty express or implied. You are responsible for your own actions and for your own interpretation of anything you read here, and neither Wikipedia nor its contributors make any legal claim as to the veracity or otherwise of any statement contained herein. Caveat emptor. DuncanHill 12:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Its the same in the states as explained in DUI#United_States. -- Diletante 04:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I recently read someone who wrote of "drink driving", and I thought perhaps they were too drunk to type properly. Learn something every day around here, thanks! Pfly 07:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

It's funny, while I (a Brit) would indeed call the offense "drink driving", I would call the offender a "drunk driver". Koolbreez 09:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Those are the terms we use over here, too. Although I (an Australian) would call the offense an offence.  :) -- JackofOz 12:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

DUCKWALK

As promised I quote the reply received this minute from the Webmaster for John Sandford (he of the PREY books).

This is what he says:

<The word DUCKWALK is much used in the Prey books. I understand the context but cannot trace the word. Nor can the good people on the language desk at Wikipedia.

<I'm not sure where the word comes from, but it's VERY well known, to the point of being a "required ability" in the US military.

<Basically, it means walking while in a very low crouching position. Not crawling, not just running along while hunched over, but actually crouching-and- walking.

<It's a very distinctive gait, which apparently someone sometime thought resembled how a duck walks.>

I replied, with thanks, to the effect that it will soon be in everyday usage if it is common to the US Army.

SO NOW WE KNOW86.216.251.162 15:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

Thanks for the followup. Having been in the US Air Force, although several years ago, though, I would have to say this is not a required ability in the Air Force. Corvus cornix 16:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Having been in the US Navy, I can clarify this. It is a very useful skill for an infantry(wo)man who wishes to A) stay on his/her feet, B) move, and C) minimize height-above-ground, and is of very little use for anyone else. Thus, it is commonly taught and used by many in the US Army and US Marine Corps. It isn't taught, tested, used, or even known about, for most people in the US Air Force, US Navy, or US Coast Guard. Of course, each of these services does have small groups of people (SEALs, etc) with infantry skills, so it's not completely unknown. -SandyJax 16:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I think I suggested this as a possibility. ;) FiggyBee 06:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Consensus in a redundant way

Apparently there are some 3210 cases of "general consensus" in the english version of wikipedia: [1]. Since this is a severe case of redundancy, might there be a decent way of changing that, please? A bot, e.g.. The same counts for two other cases of redundancy: "consensus opinion" ([2]), and "consensus of opinion" ([3]). All of these should just read "consensus", nothing more. Thanks. (Unless I am wrong, of course...) --VanBurenen 15:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

You are right. Good call! DuncanHill 15:24, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Usage note from Merriam-Webster: "The phrase consensus of opinion, which is not actually redundant ... has been so often claimed to be a redundancy that many writers avoid it. You are safe in using consensus alone when it is clear you mean consensus of opinion, and most writers in fact do so." Hardly a ringing endorsement. For professional linguists who despise Strunk and White's "omit needless words" advice, see Language Log: "omit needless words" site:itre.cis.upenn.edu. It seems to me that in practice "general consensus" is being used as a weaker version of "consensus": not everybody was happy, but most people were fairly happy. A useful distinction. jnestorius^(talk) 16:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The usual phrase for that here at Wikipedia is "broad consensus". —Angr 19:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

How does it work with this reference desk/Language? If such a fault in the wikipedia breeding has been pointed out, are there people going around busily fixing things or is this just a cry up wolves creek? --VanBurenen 20:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The usual response when some points out a mistake at Wikipedia is {{sofixit}}. —Angr 05:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes, I know. However, to fix about 4000 (as per google count) wrongs... There are those that use bots to fix things in large numbers. I have no IT knowledge to do that. Is there not a quality supervising team that would do this? --VanBurenen 08:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course a bot would make a "correction" even if an article was quite carefully distinguishing a more general consensus from consensus among a narrower group. But perhaps this is a quibble that can be overlooked in the name of progress. Wareh 14:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Other phrases that could be purged are "n-year anniversary" and (with a bit more effort) "the fact that". —Tamfang 01:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

There are many of these - see List of redundant expressions. -- JackofOz 23:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to be a bit bold here and state that it is not necessarily redundant - it all depends on the situation.

Say, for instance, you are talking about the amount of snow in Buffalo, NY, a very snowy place. Here, there is redundancy if you say, "The general consensus was that we had a lot of snow."

However, in Washington D.C., where an inch or two of snow can shut down everything because people don't know how to drive, the "general consensus" might be that half a dozen such snows in one year means there was a lot of snow. However, that would only be a consensus about the general condition of something. The specifics, how it affected people, etc., may vary so much there can be no consensus there, only consensus as to the generalities. Those from the South would have one opinion of the snow, while the representatives from the snowy Northeast might scoff at them and say, "Yeah, it was really snowy because you can't handle it; you should try living in Buffalo!"

One could argue, of course, that those issues on which there is a consensus only as to general facts, but not specifics - such as how true the comment is, how it affects different people - do not belong in the pages of Wikipedia becasue they are not factual. However, "general consensus" does not strike me as redundant.

Generally, at least :-)Somebody or his brother 19:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The use of "Chef <surname>" in the United States

Whilst watching Kitchen Nightmares through interesting internet aided means, I noticed a prevelent bias towards calling Gordon Ramsay "Chef Ramsay". I recall hearing the same whilst watching Hells Kitchen USA as well. As it's not something I've ever heard in the UK, as TV chefs are usually referred to by their full names here, is it a widespread American usage or is it something that was created by a TV show that stuck? Do other chefs in the USA get referred to by "Chef <surname>"? Is there some culinary heirachy at play in respect to method of address? Foxhill 16:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It's used all the time on Iron Chef America. The chefs call each other "Chef <surname>", even if they're apparently good friends. But it only seems to apply to those who actually own restaurants. I don't know if anybody would call Rachael Raye "Chef Raye". Corvus cornix 16:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It is commonly used on the Food Network, as Corvus notes. But its use in the United States in this way predates the existence of that TV network. I agree with Corvus that Rachael Ray would not be called "Chef Ray". However, I think that it is not so much a matter of owning or managing a restaurant as it is a matter of managing a team of sous chefs. Rachael Ray typically works alone, whereas the cooks known as "chef" manage a team of assistants. Marco polo 19:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd say it's a reflection of the American way of referring to people like "President Reagan", "Chief Wiggum", "Mayor Brown", "Sheriff Smith", "District Attorney Jones", "Secretary of State Kissinger" and so on. -- JackofOz 23:18, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget the cultural impact of the Japanese TV show Iron Chef, which has enjoyed tremendous popularity in the U.S. The house chefs are known as "Iron Chef Chen", "Iron Chef Morimoto," etc. -- Mwalcoff 23:46, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Food Network uses it consciously, I suspect, to try and enhance the apparent importance of its stars. It's not often used in real life....and even on TV it's somewhat amusing, as it's redolent of Chef Boyardee (with a pedigree in America since 1940) and summons up the image of a can of overcooked pasta in a non-descript sauce rather than having the desired effect. It is, I submit, an element of the high camp that is "Iron Chef" rather than a real term of approbation. - Nunh-huh 03:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

November 1

Jr. and Sr. within an alphabetized list

Here's a quickie. In an alphabetized list, what would come first: Mike Dunleavy, Sr., or Mike Dunleavy, Jr.? J comes before S, of course, but it just doesn't look right to me to list the son before the father. What do style guides recommend? Thanks, Zagalejo^^^ 03:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

If these 2 people happened to be entirely unrelated, would that make a difference? I don't think so. I'd be surprised if style guides prefer age, relationship or any other considerations over alphabetic order, otherwise it's no longer alphabetic order but some other kind of order, and an order that assumes the readers know what the writers know, which is bound to be a false assumption in the general case. -- JackofOz 03:38, 1 November 2007

(UTC)

Well, looking through some indexes on Google Books, it appears that most list the Jr. before the Sr., although there are some exceptions. Thanks for the reply. Zagalejo^^^ 04:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Latin word needed

What is the latin word for "crossroad" or "cross" and "road"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.61.130 (talk) 16:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

A place where three roads meet: trivium. A place where four ways meet: quadrivium. A more general term for a place where several ways meet in the country: compitum. Wareh 16:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

See, for example, the article on Compitalia festival. ---Sluzzelin talk 17:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

And for a place where two roads meet, just as we might suspect, there is the word "bivium". There is also "decussis" for the shape of an X. For the individual words "cross" and "road", the most usual word for "road" is "via", which leads to the "-vium" in these compound words. "Cross" would be the adverb "trans" ("across") or as a verb, "transire" ("to go across"), or a large number of other words depending on what you are crossing and how you are crossing it. Our word "cross" ultimately comes from the Latin "crux" which would likely denote a torture instrument to a Roman (as in the Crucifix). Adam Bishop 01:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Surely a place where 2 roads meet is called angulus? Unless they meet head on. jnestorius^(talk) 02:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It depends what you mean by two roads. If two roads meet at what we call a fork in the road, that's a trivium, and if they cross each other at what we call a crossroads (or an intersection), that's a quadrivium. I admit I haven't come across a bivium, is that where two ways of different characters meet and end at the same point, so that each could be considered to be the continuation of the other? (I think Wareh's word 'way' is better than 'road', as a via could be narrower than what we think of as a road). Xn4 07:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The trilingual village of Bivio got its name from stabulum bivio (stables at the crossroads). They are in fact two roads forming a Y, dictated by the topography of the local drainage divide (or "watershed"). The main road climbing South from Chur forks off to the Septimer Pass southward and the Julier Pass eastward. These days, the Julier Pass is considered to be the default continuation of the "main road", but at the time Bivio received its name (the first documented mentioning dates back to the 9th century), it might have been the Septimer. More importantly, it doesn't matter: From a traveler's point of view, maybe the prefixes bi-, tri-, etc. can also refer to the number of roads splitting off from "your" road at a certain point, the number of options for continuing your journey (minus turning around). As in the word bifurcation: you're coming from the handle of the fork, and have two or more tines you can choose from. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:36, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Then a bivium is (or can be) the same as a trivium? How odd! Xn4 00:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

But that's not a bivial distinction.  :) -- JackofOz 03:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Bivium is used very generally by Livy: "Did you march your army straight against those whom you had elected to regard as your enemies? Did you not on the contrary make a roundabout march through winding roads, halting at all the cross-roads in order that in whatever direction Eumenes' brother Attalus should direct his march, you might follow him like a mercenary captain, you, a consul with a Roman army?" (38.45) Wareh 12:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

November 2

-tröm surnames

What is the origin of the -tröm part of the Germanic (Yiddish? Swedish?) surnames like Bergstrom and Sandstrom? I just can't figure it out. Steewi 03:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC) (added in wrong day first - didn't think to check the date)Steewi 03:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Could it be that the s is not a genitive marker? So it's Berg-strom (mountain river).--K.C. Tang 03:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Rem acu tetigisti: you have it. Xn4 04:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Spectacular. That won't be bothering me now. My fault for over analysing. Thanks! Steewi 05:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Issue page

Is there a page to post requests for fixing language issues in wikipedia? See my earlier Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Consensus_in_a_redundant_way. Thanks. VanBurenen 09:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

There is Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Typos, which, however, is intended more for misspellings. I'm not sure there is general consensus that "general consensus" is severely redundant. In general it is unwise to leave such things to fully automated bots; for example, we wouldn't want a bot to "fix" the use in Half Man Half Biscuit. BTW, my count of main space articles using the phrase "general consensus" is more like 400.  --Lambiam 10:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not too bad than ;). I'll leave it at that. Thanks. VanBurenen 11:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Children's vs Adult's voices (x-posted from Science refdesk)

• What are the differences between children's and adult's voices, excepting the obvious physiological effects of growth and hormonal adjustments?
• For example, children's voices tend to sound more sing-songy, breathy, and rhymical, but have there been any studies to make quantitative or qualitative measures of the difference in voice-qualities as age progresses?
• It is obvious that human's are readily able to differentiate between younger and older speakers independently of any use of linguistic cues : are computers able to do the same, and under what heuristics would they operate?
• Are there any posited hypotheses of the cognitive causes of these non-physiologically determined variations?

Many thanks 81.153.3.36 10:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I think this belongs in the section on Language and Linguistics. Meanwhile, I'm not well studied at all in developmental linguistics, but I can try to answer with what I know.

Obviously, as you stated, as a child gets older his larynx expands and produces deeper tones as the vocal chords vibrate. Similar resonance differences occur as the size of the oral and nasal cavity expand. However, the prosodic changes (those in rhythm and tone) can probably be traced to what are still not well understood phenomena in child linguistics. For example, a toddler will show reduplication (repetition of words) and other types of word play, depending on age, as he learns to speak. He will also exaggerate and misuse intonation (the parents do this too when they speak to children for the precise reason that intonation is difficult to master). All of this is most likely a result of the problem of learning something as complicated as language simply from cues around you. Computational models of this type of learning are very simplistic, last I've seen, and usually involve limited degrees of freedom (such as a simple robot learning to walk or play the drums according to outside information). None that I know of are linguistic in nature.

It is true that the age of a speaker can be approximated by linguistic cues alone. This is done in precisely the same manner as you mentioned, as well as by judging vocabulary, grammar use, pronunciation, and pragmatics (appropriateness of responses). Computers are probably most advanced at this point in distinguishing pronunciation, but still trained phoneticians are used to diagnose and treat speech disorders, because software simply still isn't good enough. The variations you discussed are not well understood computationally or anatomically, so I don't believe there have been any good hypotheses other than those suggested by experience with children. SamuelRiv 04:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks SamuelRiv. I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I was interested in specifically those differences that aren't linguistic in any way. That is, not vocabulary, grammar use, pronounciation or pragmatics, nor anything else for which it is require to assign meaning to the sounds. Rather, I wondered what kind of differences were recognisable in the pure sound-form of the voice, aucoustic qualities you might say.

In any case, I found a paper which is along the lines of the ideas I expected : [4] : though it still seems that there is woefully little work done on understanding speech outside of pathological/dysfunctional cases, which I guess is understandable, if not totally satisfactory. 81.153.3.36 12:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC) (Cross-posting to linguistics desk, just in case.)

Ah, vocal acoustics is something I haven't studied. Anatomically, I'd look closely at the shape and size of the oral and nasal cavities and the ability to completely close the nasal passage while speaking orally (/b/,/s/,/v/, etc), or the oral passage while speaking nasally (/m/,/n/,/N/). Also, the shape and contraction of the pharynx would likely be important. See if you can find some x-ray images of children's vocal tracts to compare to adults, as that would be the clearest comparison. SamuelRiv 14:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

There have been studies on the vocal tract differences and the acoustic differences, although I can't name them off the top of my head. What I remember is that there is surprisingly little difference between boys' and girls' voices, acoustically, and they're not able to be reliably differentiated. On the other hand, it is very easy to tell a child's voice from an adult's voice. The difference doesn't lay only in pitch, but also in phonation, articulation and the shape of the upper vocal tract. Steewi 01:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Coombeshead College

What is the pronunciation of the word "Coombeshead"?---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.188.159.167 (talk) 13:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As a placename, it's probably from "coombe's head" = "top of the valley"; coombe usually rhymes with boom and doom, but it's a variant of combe, which rhymes with roam and dome. So my guess is [kumzhɛd] "coom's head" or possibly [koʊmzhɛd] "comb's head"; though I can't say which syllable is stressed. A better option might be to ask at Talk:Coombeshead College. jnestorius^(talk) 14:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

But you know how those Brits are about names. If Featherstonehaugh is supposed to be pronounced [ˈfænʃɔː], then Coombeshead is probably equally unpredictable--[ˈkʌmpʃɪd] maybe. —Angr 10:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Your theory is unsound, unfortunately. Unpredicatability is inherently ... well, unpredictable. -- JackofOz 23:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

People from Niger

If people from Nigeria are called Nigerians then people from Niger are called...? --Candy-Panda 13:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

They're called Nigeriens or Nigerois. See Niger#Demonym.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 13:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

cf. "Dominican" ([dɒmɪnˈikən]) for Dominica and Dominican ([dəˈmɪnɪkən]) for Dominican Republic. jnestorius^(talk) 14:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This has been bothering me as well. Go wikipedia volunteers!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.35.88 (talk) 23:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

latin

What is the meaning of the latin phrase in the following sentence: The prince ... is not free to enact ... laws which go counter to ... that "aequitas" which is "rerum convenientia, tribuens unicuique quod suum est"? 78.109.196.167 13:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Aequitas means "fairness" or "justice", and the long phrase means "the agreement/harmony of things, granting to each one that which is his/her own". —Keenan Pepper 14:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Name syntax

Does anyone have any information on the origin and first use of the phrasal structure '[First Name] generally sarcastic quote or idea [Last Name]' as in 'Ted "series of tubes" Stevens' or 'Mohammed "there are no tanks in Baghdad" Saeed al-Sahaf'. I would guess that it's something to do with the 'x is my middle name' idea, but it seems to have extended to the point where it breaks up a noun phrase in a way that in any other case I can think of would seem ungrammatical. For example, 'The Blue-footed clumsy Booby' sounds wrong to me in a way that 'The clumsy Blue-footed Booby' doesn't (obviously the latter has a different meaning), but this switch isn't possible with the first two names. Has anyone written about this in the Cambridge Grammar or Language Log?

Cheers Trebor27trebor 17:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no specific information about when, but I would have thought it was a simple extension of the principle used in Charles "Buddy" Rogers, Edd "Kookie" Byrnes, etc. -- JackofOz 22:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, and for helping so many other people out on this page. Trebor27trebor 17:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

See "Trope or Internym" on this page. --ColinFine 00:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

translation

how would you say: its all good in the hood in french? i know its something like c'est bon dans la... but i can't be sure. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.35.88 (talk) 23:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this supposed to rhyme? Assuming you mean 'hood = neighbourhood, you could say Tout va bien dans le quartier, but that does not have a slang quality.  --Lambiam 03:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Although it's nothing like so slangy as it's all good in the hood, if you can't find anything better you could use ça marche, ça marche. I believe this can allude to a popular song by Christophe Maé which has the stirring chorus "La la la la la la la, ça marche, ça marche, Oh no, oh la la la, ça marche, Houu la la la la la la la." It's called, unsurprisingly, 'Ça marche'. Xn4 04:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a good example of the principles discussed in Le Ton beau de Marot. One might object that Xn4's translation doesn't say the same thing, but its overall quality is closer to the English original than Lambiam's is. —Keenan Pepper 01:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Keenan, if you mean a literal translation could take us into deep waters. And I'm sure you're not confusing "ça marche?" (how's it going?) with "ça marche!" (it's going fine). Xn4 04:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

November 3

latin sentence

Please translate this for me: "Hunc ergo gladium de manu Ecclesiae accipit princeps." It's in Copleston, vol.2, p.174. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omidinist (talk • contribs) 09:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

"Therefore the prince receives this sword from the hand of the Church." —Angr 09:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

how do you say this scottish greeting?

I would like to be able to listen to this: "Fit Like Jockie?", and "Aw'Right" they are Scottish greetings. what do they mean, by the way? I guess the last one means something like alright. thank you for any help that you can extend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.188.88 (talk) 11:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, "Aw'Right" means "Alright?", but doesn't really require an answer. "Fit Like, Jockie?" is asking "What's Up?" to someone called Jockie. --Bearbear 18:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Homographic homophonic autantonym

Dinosaur Comics has a thing for unusual words. In the most recent comic he, I believe, coined the term "homographic homophonic autantonym". [5] He defines them as words that are spelt and pronounced the same, but have two opposite and contradictory meanings. He gives two examples: dust and custom. Can anyone think of anymore? -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk &#149; contribs)} 14:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

In my language, Icelandic, hljóð can mean either "sound" or "silence" and you have only the context to figure out which is meant.Etymology here. Haukur 15:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

See Auto-antonym and List of self-contradicting words in English. -- BenRG 15:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand the opposites of custom, could somebody explain? There's also cleave, meaning to cut or to stick together. Corvus cornix 18:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

As explained in the second page BenRG linked to, custom means 'usual, conventional' as a noun, but as an adjective, it means 'specially designed'. Algebraist 19:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Your edit summary was inappropriate. I will thank you to remember civility. Corvus cornix 19:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

(In case anyone else is wondering, the edit summary in question just said please consult the linked articles before asking questions... Disappointing really; I was hoping for some profanity or insults. —Keenan Pepper 01:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

To ravel: to disentangle or to entangle.[6]  --Lambiam 11:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

'To stalk': to walk with measured, stiff, or haughty strides, or to pursue or approach prey, quarry, etc., stealthily.[7] (well, ish)--Estrellador* 15:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

'Music technology' French

How do I say music technology in French? Computerjoe's talk 14:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

At a guess, I'd say technologie de musique. I'm intrigued by the final sentence of that article, though, which reads, "The music population is filled with incessant fans." Incessant fans are presumably large electric ventilators that never stop blowing, but I'm not sure what the music population is, or how the electric fans can fill it. —Angr 16:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Technologie de la musique, much more frequent on Google than the other possibility, Technologie musicale (or : Technologies musicales). Also : technologie du son (sound technology). 89.83.23.161 16:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Romanian verb question

I have a textbook of Colloquial Romanian from 1993 in which the verb form meaning both "I am" and "they are" is given as sînt, which suggests the pronunciation [sɨnt]. However, I have learned that nowadays, this verb form is spelled sunt, which suggests the pronunciation [sunt]. So what's going on here? Has the pronunciation of this form actually changed in the last 14 years? Or has it always been pronounced the same way, but either the old spelling or the new spelling is not faithful to the pronunciation? If so, which is spelling reflects the pronunciation, and why was the unfaithful spelling ever used? —Angr 18:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The pronunciation hasn't changed, it's sînt for both. They are just alternative spellings, whether in the Latin alphabet or the Cyrillic. Sunt is more usual in Romania, and sînt in Moldova. The Romanians say sunt is more correct, as it's the spelling in Latin. Xn4 05:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not the Latin spelling of "I am", though! But okay, it's just an archaizing spelling that doesn't reflect modern pronunciation. (As an English speaker, I'm certainly used to that!) Somewhere I read that in the 19th century, some Romanians spelled cinci ("five") quinque on the grounds that it's the Latin spelling, so I guess the sentiment isn't new there. —Angr 09:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It's odd that sunt can come to mean 'I am', but these things do happen. In standard English, we have "aren't I?" instead of "amn't I?" And in the West of England, you can still hear old people say you'm for 'you are'. Soon, that will be "as utterly gone out of the world as the song of a destroyed wild bird". Xn4 23:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Many English teachers would be horrified to read this, but "ain't I" is historically justified and imo much preferable to "aren't I". -- JackofOz 00:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

It's the same in Italian, isn't it? "Sono" means "I am" and "They are". Adam Bishop 03:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.210.170.48 (talk)

November 4

Junction in spanish

how can i say junction in spanish?Cholga^talK! 00:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know any Spanish, but since no one else has offered an answer, according to my mini English-Spanish dictionary, it's junta (which according to junta also means "committee"). No doubt it all depends on context.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

My Spanish is not very strong, but I think that the Spanish equivalent of junction depends on what kind of junction you mean. A junta is a coming together of two or more things, like the junction of two beams in a house or two electrical cables in a switch. For a railway junction, however, the correct word is empalme, and for a road or motorway junction, the correct word appears to be cruce. Marco polo 16:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Wordrefrence.com is an excellent resource for this sort of question. Check it out here. In addition to what's listed there, My Diccionario de sinónimos y antónimos (Santillana) mentions juntura, ensambladura, acoplamiento, and soldadura, which may or may not be synonyms, dependig on context. -NorwegianBlue ^talk 18:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

19 year old - man or teenager?

In the media when referring to a 19 year old person they either refer to them as a 19 year old man/woman or a teenager, sometimes in the same news article. Which is more correct to say? Is a 19 year old a man or a teenager? --Candy-Panda 09:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Generally speaking, "man" (or "woman") is used to refer to an adult as opposed to a child ... thus, generally speaking, anyone over the age of 18 is a man/woman and not a child. A teenager is anyone whose age is in the teens ... that is anyone aged 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, or 19. Thus, as you pointed out, someone who is aged 19 can be referred to as a man (woman) and/or as a teenager. So, to answer your question, neither is more correct to say. They are both correct. They are not mutually exclusive. Which of the terms is preferable, of course, would depend on the context of the article in which the term is written. (Joseph A. Spadaro 09:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

If I were a newspaper reporter, I think I would refer to a 19-year-old male as a "youth". I'd probably use it for any male between about 15 and 21. —Angr 09:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thomas Hardy said - "I was a child until I was sixteen, a youth until I was twenty-five, a young man until I was forty or fifty". Xn4 23:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I would have thought media style guides would ensure consistency at least in the first reference. If the headline is "X dies in fire", the sequence for different age-values of X might be something like: baby, infant, toddler, child/boy/girl, teen/teenager, youth (male only), young man/woman, man/woman, elderly man/woman. While a 19-yr-old could plausibly be characterised as a "teenager" in the body of an article (say, to emphasise his youth), I would expect a media source to refer to him as a "man" in the headline or summary. For me, a "youth" suggests 15-17.jnestorius^(talk) 00:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no right or wrong here --- as a 19-year old (male) is both a man and a teenager. As I said above, the context of the article would most likely dictate the more appropriate choice of words. If the article were about an 18- or 19-year-old high schooler who got arrested for some mischievous adolescent prank -- or about one who is a star player on the high-school / college football team, the term "teenager" would probably be more appropriate. If perhaps an 18- or 19-year-old U. S. Marine died in the Iraq War, the term "man" would be more appropriate. The "best" word depends largely on the context of the article -- and, generally, if this 18/19-year-old were participating in more adolescent or more adult activities. (Joseph A. Spadaro 04:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC))

latin phrase

What does it mean in this context: "... whereby the soul apprehends God within herself 'et ea quae in Deo erant'"? Omidinist 11:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It literally means "and those things that were in God". What that's actually supposed to mean, I don't know. —Angr 11:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Could it be that the original has qua, as required by grammatical agreement in Latin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lambiam (talk • contribs) 16:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

quae is the correct neuter nominative plural. qua is only feminine ablative singular. —Angr 16:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. That's exactly what I needed: literal meaning. I can deduce the philosophy behind it. Omidinist 16:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

firenze vs. florence

Why do we change the names of foreign cities, e.g. from Firenze to Florence? Surely we can pronounce "Firenze", so shouldn't that be its name in English? Admittedly each person who coined one of the Anglicised names might have done so without bothering to find out the local name for the place, and perhaps the name stuck before we could change it, but if that were a common occurrence, we would have names that bore no similarity to the local name. "Florence," like most Anglicised names, is clearly based on "Firenze," the local name (i.e. Firenze) but is nevertheless a different name, and not a mere orthographical shift. Why does this happen so often? 203.221.127.45 14:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure who "we" is referring to: Wikipedians or English speakers. In Wikipedia we use the common designation in English texts, which is Florence. English Florence was copied from French Florence, which, like German Florenz and Italian Firenze, comes from the original Latin name Florentia (see History of Florence). When the Italians changed the name, the rest of the world did not follow suit.  --Lambiam 15:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you can say that your average English speaker can pronounce "Firenze". I'd be willing to bet that Italians would think we weren't saying it exactly right. Therefore, some degree of anglicization occurs naturally. The reason for the divergence of a foreign placename from its native form will vary. The French call London Londres, both from Londinium (interestingly, they call Londoners Londoniens, and they call the one in Ontario London). The same force is sometimes at work as in words like "quixotic" and "caliph", that the foreign word became familiar in written form first. Although we can suppose that English-speakers would be able to make a fair stab at pronouncing European names, when we go to China we run into trouble. Is John Smith's Beijing any closer to the actual pronunciation than his Peking? We throw up our hands and are content call it what we call it. Just be happy we don't call Moscow Mockba. --Milkbreath 17:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be a double-standard here, we write Perú with an accent but we don't write Firenze with is most common and current transliteration which appears and any map written since the 1990s? Firenze doesn't even have any special charicters. Sure we may say fur-n-zay instead of Fear-ehn-seh but we also say pah-ruuu instead of peh-roo and the accent doesn't make a differance. If the italians change the transliteration we should use it here. It doesn't matter what most people call them because its a name, it matters what they call themselves. We wouldn't start calling George Bush Jorge Arbusto just because its the spanish equivalent just as we dont call his argentine counterpart Cri'stina Fernández—Christina FernandezCholga^talK! 19:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"We" write Peru with an accent? Who is "we"? And Wikipedia policy is to use the most common English spelling. We don't want to confuse English readers. Corvus cornix 20:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Well the names of places do change in common culture but there is no ability to 'make changes' to english than to try convince others that your usage should be common usage. Bombay is back to being called Mumbai these days but many will still refer to it by Bombay. Poor old Bombay Sapphire must be most upset - though they have the consolation of making pretty much the nicest gin around. So if Firenze becomes more popular then it will overtake it and become known that way, but for now Florence remains more popular. To be frank it matters little, the same thing exists for literally 1000s of places across 100s of languages. English is a language, Italian is one - both have their names for things (regardless of say the nationality of the inventor) and both have their names for places too. ny156uk 23:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

For London, it was noted above that the modern French and English names are independent derivatives of the original Latin name. But consider Rome. Its local name was Roma in classical Latin and is still Roma in modern Italian, and I believe it hasn't changed in the whole 2,700+ year history of the city. "Roma" is pefectly pronounceable in English; why ever did the form "Rome" first appear? --Anonymous, XXIII:XXXI UTC :-), IV NON. NOV., A.D. MMVII.

As with Florence, it's the French form of the name and came into English at a time when French was the European lingua franca and was spoken by the English travelling classes. I imagine Cholga would have us saying "All roads lead to Roma" and talking about Shakespeare's play The Merchant of Venezia. From there, it's only a short step to insisting on "Iulius Caesar", "the Emperor of Nippon" and "the President of Deutschland". Xn4 23:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we insist then on IVLIVS instead of Iulius?  --Lambiam 21:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a historico-cultural thing dating from earlier times. If we chanced upon Napoli for the very first time now, there's no way we'd change the name to the hyper-correct "Naples". Or render Athinai (which changed 30 years ago to Athina) as Athens. Or change Livorno to Leghorn. Or ... or ... . It's just not acceptable to act in such a culturally insensitive way these days. We'd at least try to say it the way the natives do. But we still have the legacy of our forbears forebears, and that's not going away any time soon. There's also the issue of pronunciation of the original names, which is particularly a problem with Asian tonal languages that are almost unreproducable by most westerners - the Peking/Beijing example above is a very good one. Nobody seems to have an issue with calling the former Leningrad "St Petersburg", but that's not what the Russians call it - it's "Sankt Peterburg" (no s in Peterburg; the Peter is not pronounced as in Peter Piper - it's closer to pet-air, with a rolled r; and the primary stress is on -burg, not on Peter-). Even with Firenze, I know many well educated and well travelled people who know that its Italian name is spelled Firenze, but they pronounce it Fuh-renz. So getting the spelling right is only half the problem solved. And speaking of India, we've changed some of our articles to reflect the "new" names, but others have been objected to on the ground that the "old" name is better known. Very inconsistent. -- JackofOz 23:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, we now have words such as Florentine, which have an independent life. It would sound odd to say "The Florentine period is so named because it had its roots in Firenze". -- JackofOz 23:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Continuing these examples, almost all Biblical names are different in most European languages, and different again from the Hebrew vocalisation. Compare Jesus ([χe'sus] in Spanish), Yeshu'a, Iesu, Iesos; and Bethlehem, beth-lahem, Belén, and so on. Add Jerusalem and Yerushalayim (called Al-Quds in Arabic, pronounced [əlʔʊds]) Steewi 01:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen our article, Exonym and endonym?
There's a curious tendency nowadays (not only in English) to abandon the long established exonyms in favor of endonyms. I don't know if it results from political correctness or a mixture of globalization and ignorance. And it doesn't only apply to Asian places like Pekin/Beijing, Burma/Myanmar or Bombay/Mumbai, but also to places in Europe. Who speaks of Ratisbon, Mayence, Lyons or Cracow anymore? — Kpalion^(talk) 23:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I do, and it's one of those losing battles which somehow isn't ever quite lost. I think it's fair to remind ourselves that there was a time when even Ratisbon and Aix-la-Chapelle were vulgar neologisms. Xn4 01:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

!nosine

What does this "!nosine" mean? I see the exclamation mark all over and have no idea what it indicates as no one seems very excited. And then there is the non-word "nosine" . . . Thanks for your help. Bielle 23:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

There's an annoying little bot that runs around Wikipedia signing people's comments on talk pages if they've forgotten. It's so fast that it doesn't give you a chance to say "Oh, I meant to sign that". Including the secret code word !nosine! in the edit summary makes it not sign for you. And so do certain other measures (if I'm right, this won't be signed...)

Thank you. Now that I know what it means, why would anyone have a problem with what it does? If you forget to sign, it does it for you, right? Is there some subtext about being reminded that is something else I don't know? Is it like having your mother remind you to take out the garbage? Too many questions here; sorry. Bielle 00:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

It's rather precisely like Mom, insisting that you do it now, when she wants you to do it, instead of three seconds from now, when you remember. And Mom does it for you, not by simply doing it, but by simultaneously announcing to the world that you're a worthless layabout who makes your mother do your work for you. - Nunh-huh 00:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

That's good -very funny, and informative. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bielle (talk • contribs) 00:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

It sure is fast! Bielle 00:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes; in fact, it makes reverting vandalism on talk pages difficult, because by the time you hit the "rollback" button, SineBot has already signed, so all you're reverting is SineBot's signing of the vandalism rather than the vandalism itself. —Angr 19:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, it insists on a form of signature that, for reasons I will not go into here, I do not choose to comply with. --Anon, 03:09 UTC, Nov. 6, 2007.

In Serbo-Croatian, "nosine" means "big noses", so the edit summary has an additional benefit of being funny :o). Duja► 11:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

November 5

Superlative Adjectives

It is my understanding that when we are comparing two things, we would use terms such as "cold" and "colder" ... but we would not use "coldest". That is, we use the comparative form of "cold" (colder) and not the superlative form (coldest). When we are comparing more than two things, we would use terms such as "cold", "colder", and "coldest". That is, the superlative form of "cold" (coldest) is used when comparing three things (or more). There was a question (posted above) on this Reference Desk about whether a 19-year-old male should be called a man or a teenager. So, we have a total of only two choices: man and teenager. Therefore, it would be proper to write a sentence such as this: The better word to describe a 19-year-old like Henry Smith would be "man." Now, would it be proper / improper / acceptable / unacceptable to write: The best word to describe a 19-year-old like Henry Smith would be "man". ...? That is, if we only have two choices (man versus teenager, with no third word), can we ever employ the superlative "best word" or must we stick only with the comparative "better word"? Is use of the superlative wrong or incorrect or is it perfectly fine? The following conversation sounds perfectly fine to me ... but, it would seem to violate grammar rules. Or no? Ann says: "I can't decide which word to use to describe my cousin Henry ... should I use man or teenager?" And then Bob replies: "Oh, yes, I know Henry very well. The best word in that case would be man." Is that incorrect? (Joseph A. Spadaro 05:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC))

It's both okay for Bob to say "better" and "best". When Bob says "the best", we'd think he's more than two words in mind (not just "man" and "teenager"); when he says "the better", we'd think he's comparing the two words given ("man" vs. "teenager"). Of course one may accuse poor Bob of not answering the question very literally - but I think Bob couldn't care less the accusation.--K.C. Tang 06:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, "best" refers to the best option of all the words in the English language -- not just better than "teenager", but better than "woman", "cat", "sniffle", and "antidisestablishmentarian" as well. Powers ^T 18:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

It was good enough for Winston Churchill: "Of two cigars pick the longest and strongest." "Longer and stronger" would have sounded overcorrect. It's a judgement call. Trust your ear while keeping an eye out for the right meaning. --Milkbreath 19:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

latin

"hoc est de divisionibus". What does it mean? Omidinist 11:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

"This is about divisions", I guess...we'd need a little more context. Adam Bishop 18:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Context here. This refers to the title of a philosophical treatise by David of Dinant, De tomis, hoc est de divisionibus. "Hoc est" simply means "that is." De tomis means "Concerning divisions," but the word tomis is a Greek-derived not Latin term (introduced by Eriugena). Thus some explanation is called for, and "hoc est" means "i.e., in Latin." The title "Concerning Divisions" probably refers to something related to Plato's method of definition by division (see Diaeresis#Plato's method of definition and Sophist (dialogue)#Method of definition), esp. given Copleston's follow-up mention of differentiae. Wareh 23:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Adam Bishop and Wareh. This "tomis" is still a puzzle. I may ask someone who knows philosophy. Omidinist 05:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Endogeny/endogeneity ?

What is the correct noun form of the adjective endogenous - is it endogeny or endogeneity, or either, or something else ? Similarly for exogenous - exogeny or exogeneity ? (In case anyone is interested, this arose as a minor side-issue at an AfD and I was curious) Gandalf61 14:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

According to the OED, endogeneity is the word for "the fact of being endogenous"; endogeny is a synonym of endogenesis ("the production of structures or bodies within the organism"). Wareh 17:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the response. Gandalf61 09:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

list of language schools (teaching English) in a city in Italy

I have an interview for a job in Lucca, and I'd like to line up more interviews while I'm there in case it doesn't work out. I don't know Italian or I would try their version of the yellow pages. I haven't had luck finding a list of language schools (teaching English) in Florence, Pisa or Lucca (the cities I'm going through for the interviews I have scheduled), maybe someone here can help. Thank you!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.238.88.73 (talk) 19:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

italian

I dont think this is the rite place to ask this but can some one tutor me on italian. The only languages my school teaches are spanish and french i am curently taking french but I would rather take italian. thanks --Sivad4991 20:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. This is not the right place to ask that. But if you can't find a tutor, you may want to learn it on your own, in that case the Italian language article will be a good starting place. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 01:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

November 6

"North" wind

Why is it called a "north" wind if it blows southward?

Are there any languages in which an English "north wind" would literally be a "south wind"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.192.94 (talk) 01:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

As noted in our article on wind, winds are described by the direction from which they flow. Thus a wind blowing from north to south is called a north wind. I don't have any information on other languages. --LarryMac | Talk 02:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

For geographical reasons, "west wind" in Chinese means the bitter wind in autumn, not zephyr, which in Chinese is "east wind". Still, "west wind" in Chinese means wind blowing from the west. I'd like to know counter-examples in other languages. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 02:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

French to English translation of album titles

Belgian rock band Aksak Maboul released two albums, Onze Danses Pour Combattre la Migraine and Un Peu de l'Âme des Bandits. The first title I have translated (hopefully correctly) as "Eleven Dances to Fight a Migraine", but it's the second I'm having trouble with. Can anyone help please? --Bruce1ee 06:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

"A Bit of the Spirit of the Bandits". For "spirit" you can also substitute "soul".  --Lambiam 08:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The first might be better translated as "Eleven Dances for Fighting Migraine", but it's a fine shade of meaning. The second could also be " A Little of the Bandit Spirit" or "A Little Bandit Soul". SaundersW 10:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Translitering Russian.

I have a CD by a band named "Киоск" called "Не Без Чудес". Can anyone do me the favour of transliterating it into the Latin alphabet (not translating into English)? I'd appreciate it. Froglars the frog 10:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)