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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Neuroscientist (talk | contribs) at 11:22, 15 July 2005 (RfC comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

If you have the capacity to tremble with indignation every time that an injustice is committed in the world, then we are comrades. – Che.

Southern Rhodesia draft:

File:Herooflabor.jpg

Archived Discussions

Archive Sam Spade apology

Antarctic krill

hallo El_C! can you please take a look at Featured article candidates: Antarctic krill maybe help with some editing / formatting / vote - best greetings Uwe Kils 20:50, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Responded here. El_C 23:54, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

thank you, El, for the fast response - I am from Germany and I know my English is rotten - stil do more on English wiki so more can use it - best greetings Uwe Kils 00:19, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Not at all, Uwe. It is my pleasure. :) El_C 00:26, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

hallo El_C - thank you for the fast work, very helpfull. We would like to keep the animations, we were very often complimented just because of those. If we do not get feature status because of that that is ok with us. keep up with the fine work for wikipedia. Uwe Kils 03:25, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Glad to help, Uwe! I also hope you are able to keep them, I find them to be very instructive. I'm not familliar with the WP:FAC and never participated in it in any way whatsoever, but you rank very high among my favourite picture contributors. Keep up the fine work yourself! :) El_C 05:11, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your nice words - but you could still vote, like anybody - we would like to get as much approval for the article as possible because we plan to produce and link many sci articles for wikiversity proposals and our dream of a Virtual university - best greetings Uwe Kils 14:06, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Well, since you ask, I'll have a look at it soon. :) El_C 07:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

thank you everybody

I would like to express my thanks to everybody helping in the nomination of Antarctic krill. I think 3 1/2 supports and a long long discussion are an unexpected and great outcome for a critter so remote and unknown - you should see how little and poor Antarctic krill is represented in Encarta and Britannica - this is the best reviewed and resourced general article of krill we know of - it is impossible to fullfill all wishes at the same time - this is what we did with our all product peer review stamp to qualify this stage of the article for academic exercises, especially for our dreams of a Virtual university within Wikiversity - good luck to you all Uwe Kils 21:48, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

here is a new picture I donated in high resolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Krilleyekils Uwe Kils 03:38, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Which academic board? I think it's important to note in these peer review diffs. Once again, well done! And as always, simply fantastic pictures!
I asked academic people to peer review it. My vision is to have a board with faculty for sci and res pages. I asked them to give their names and I offered to make user pages, but all refused to join wikipedia yet. comments: too much wierd sex on the most visted pages, most editors work as noname. We made such an attempt already two years ago wich stirred a lot of gusto. I was even kicked out as admin, even without a vote. So for the time beeing we have to leave it as "academic board". maybe in the not to far future we can have a group of experts all willing to give their name and material, like I did in the article Antarctic krill and Atlantic herring and oxygen depletion. Can I ask you still to vote on the krill eye

site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Krilleyekils and the "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Virtual_University page Uwe Kils 11:52, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Strong Support. Wow. Detailed response provided here. El_C 13:08, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
responded on my talk page (do you have http://www.skype.com ?) Uwe Kils 16:09, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I do not. Is it any good? I don't really like using instant messengers (long and somewhat uninteresting story). But I will send you an email soon (I have to go out now), or in the meantime, feel more than free to email me. All the best, El_C 16:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
skype is free and for talking - you just need a mic for 10 dollar - it is better than telephone and free - thanks for the good discussion, I responded on my talk page - would you be willing to work (at least in part) under your name? Uwe Kils 16:56, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
the reader / cyber student should have the possibility to juge on her own how much the peer scientist is suited for the field, following independent sources like this and faculty pages. Just to google for the name is not jet very helpfull, because most of the sci material is behind passwords of expensive magazines or not on the web jet. Uwe Kils 16:47, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I agree, that's one serious limitation that needs to be overcome. I responded at greater length in my email. Thanks! El_C 22:59, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Copepodkils.jpg

hallo El, can you help me reset the size on the plankton page - I replaced the images with high res versions Uwe Kils 15:11, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

What a peculiar-looking creature. Done. :) El_C 15:32, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thank you - the oceans are quite amazing - its good to have friends in cyberspace :) Uwe Kils 15:36, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
They most certainly are. It most definitely is. Anytime, don't hesitate. :) El_C 15:50, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

EnviroKainKabong

Thanks for the note. I understand what you did, and why. What, though, do you suppose is the proper standard of etiquette to employ with someone who habitually sits next to you at the cafeteria table and douses your tray, for eight or ten weeks on end, with water from an unflushed privy? Is there ever a point at which such a cafeteria guest is worth identifying publicly and unmistakably? When he sits down next to you for the two hundredth time bearing a broad grin and a large plastic tub filled with sewage, might a cross word be expected to escape one's lips? BrandonYusufToropov 02:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Heh, that was pretty good! Sorry, was that a question? ;p El_C 03:06, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Poor standards

I've been going through jtdirl's edits, and I'm appalled at the generally low quality of his work. Errors in spelling and grammar abound, many details are incorrect, and the way he tortures English makes me wince. I've been cleaning up his edits, but I've only gone back a few days so far and it looks like a lot of work. Perhaps English is not his native language, but apart from style, his material is not reliable. At one point he talked about "the President of the United Kingdom" as a factual office. I'm not putting myself forward as a purveyor of high class English, but the stuff put out by your mate is pretty bloody ordinary, and that's me being generous! Pete 02:19, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I see. Well, I will need to see individual diffs to be able to comment definitevly. I am not especially familliar with the work of either Jtdirl or yourself (though, from what I witnessed on GoA, he struck me as being compotnent; whereas you, as you well know, struck me as being rather circular). At any rate, he is responsible for his own work, so it is probably better for you to take these issues directly with him, or in the given article's talk page. Incidentally, English is not my native tongue, I learned it about a decade or so ago, and I still am often scrambling. Still, I'm always pleased to help those less versed in it (in a collegial fashion); and note that they, nonetheless, may still be notable experts in their respective fields despite this shortcoming. This is an international English language encyclopedia, after all. El_C 03:06, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't have put it better! Cast your eyes over this revert and tell me if you think he's "compotnent". And this is on a subject where he claims expertise and is the only editor of the article apart from myself. One out of dozens of articles riddled with errors in fact and logic, not to mention spelling, grammar and syntax that would shame a school student.

As you know, I get my kicks out of chasing down and fixing errors and correcting bias, and while I don't think he's biased except for an understandable love of his country (and himself), I think you'll have to agree that he is fertile ground for correction. If you have any regard for him at all, you should quietly point out that if he doesn't fix his errors and straighten out his tortured syntax into something resembling professional standards, then others will do it, and I shall take a great deal of pleasure in pointing out every last painful detail.

I ask you, because he's not listening to me, just mindlessly reverting, and all that does is whet my appetite. As you know. Pete 03:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1. As I know, but: you must cease from editing my comments' space by inserting your own (esp. without signing). Do you not know that I intend to bring evidence in your arbitration proceeding which outline my protest of this pratice on your part (and that you continued to do so, at least once, despite such explicit protests?) You must know as this is what I had written on Jtdirl's talk page today. 2. As per compotence, I see one content error and some grammatical errors in that page, which, in my book, has no bearing on scholarly compotence. My grammar is often (read: always) hideous, and as mentioned, I was the one who proofread Dr. Kils article on Antarctic krill. Every bit helps. But in your case, you already know that Jtdirl may feel that you are targetting him, rightly so, noting your past exchanges at the GoA. He may have some issues with grammar, that is nothing he should be ashamed of, it's the content that matters. I wrote the lead paragraph for a dozen country article, and I have gotten at least three changes of west to east (etc.), often weeks or months later. I'm absentminded sometimes, but within reason that's okay, it's a wiki. There are many thousands of editors, I know one of them will pick up on it (but I would hope that it would not be carried out by someone who I am in dispute with, because it can take the form of humiliation). 3. If you intend to channel your energy this way, by correcting Jtdirl's contributions for grammar and whatever content slips (in itself, a productive task, but also note the above issues), I certainly will reiterate to him to examine each change in detail so as to keep any positive improvements. Alas, if only I had a friendly proofreader, the article on A'man that I authored two days ago certainly could use it! *** One more thing, Mister Pete Skyring. You must cease and desist immediately from using edit summaries such as "Fix tortured sentence," etc., as, in this case, they are a from of personal attack. El_C 04:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not to put myself forward or anything, but did you say friendly proof-reader? You want a proof-read of A'man, nudge, nudge? Bishonen | talk 17:56, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Chaos in Islam

We've got chaos breaking out on several Islam-related talk pages, with articles locked and people blocked. Any help working out how to handle it gratefully received at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Trouble on Islam pages. SlimVirgin (talk) 08:23, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

I know, I am getting sick of signing anon ips! I didn't realize it was so widespread. Noted, I'll see what I can do. El_C 08:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Konstantin Pobedonostsev passage

Hi El_C, it's a well known quote. See [1] for some refs. I don't know the original source, though. Will try some Russian history books/sites. Regards. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 09:14, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, and I also see it on jewishhistory.org, but it's always nice to have a print source. :) Thanks. Yours, El_C 09:27, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pobedonostsev's quote

Please remove this phrase from wikipedia article. 217.117.80.2 06:35, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in light of your above explanation, I definitely wish to see a well-referenced print source now, consensus version or no consensus version. Until HS produces one, I will remove it. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, 217.117.80.2. El_C 11:03, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The difference in wording could well be an artifact of translation. Secretlondon 11:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Very true, but at the moment I'm limiting myself to seeking a well-referenced citation that demonstrates he stated this. At any event, I am confident HS will be able to provide us with something definitive, which draws from the historiographical consensus. El_C 11:17, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It will be fair to remove the passage about Pobedonostsev from other articles Such as May_Laws and Konstantin Pobedonostsev (Pobedonostsev defender) 217.117.80.2 11:34, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes, until the source is provided, it would be. Though it may prove short-lived. By all means, go ahead. El_C 11:38, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have found possible source of this "quotation"!!!

It is "The Melting Pot" play written by Israel Zangwill in 1908.

http://www.vdare.com/fulford/melting_pot.htm The wicked Baron shares his program for the Jews of Russia: "One-third will be baptized, one-third massacred, the other third emigrated here." His American interlocutor says: "We're going to stop all alien immigration." The wicked Baron: "To stop all alien?? But that is barbarous!"

http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/wsharpe/citylit/Melting3.htm (Pobedonostsev defender) --217.117.80.2 13:03, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. Could it be that Pobedonostsev recited that? I am afraid I'm rather ignorant about prerevolutionary Russia. I wish to hear what other editors have to say. I'm going to move most of the above to the article's talk page to guage on other editors' thoughts (which, as was rightly noted, I should have done the first time – but, I thought at the time that finding a propper source would be a relatively brief affair). El_C 07:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A'man

Hello El_C. The article says that it was founded in 1950, but also gives a director for 1948-9. The solution probably lies in the transition from the Hagana intelligence Branch (Shai). A good source of the early history is Morris & Black, Israel's Secret Wars. I'm just about to go overseas for a month, so feel free to beat me to it. Cheers. --Zero 10:34, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, Zero. Actually, I approach it as: while having been founded in 1950, that it was still largely the same entity; except that it was detached from the GenStaff (Agam, 1948 / Amak, 1949), though of course, still falling under its jurisdiction. Am I correct to follow that route do you think? Thanks for the tip, I'll try to track that book down. Finally, is the English translation for (מחלקת המודיעין) branch rather than dept. I'm afraid I'm not very familliar with the English scholarship, so this impacts my translation as per synonyms. Thanks in advance. All the best, El_C 10:47, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that "Branch" is more common in English sources, but "Department" and "Division" are used too. --Zero 11:22, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Right, they are all synonyms. I think I'll keep the branch for agaf, and the Dept. for machlaka (unless you favour Division, dosen't matter on that end), to distinguish between the two diffrent Hebrew words in English. Once again, many thanks. Best regards, El_C 11:28, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and synomously, agaf itself can, of course, mean: department, branch, wing, or flank (as well as less topically: equational member in mathematics, or wing of a bird in talmudic writings). Naturally, if there is one most authoritative way wrtt Israeli IC, I want to go with it. :) El_C 11:36, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Friendly proof-reader

El, did you see my A'man proof-reading nudge above? What are the double asterisks for in the "Head of A'man" section? They suggest that all the rest of the agencies are subsets of the Research Department, is that the case? Bishonen | talk 18:30, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, what does "and its operation" mean in "3. Military censorship and its operation"? Can I leave it out, or change to "operations"? Bishonen | talk 18:57, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! No, it isn't. I'm not sure how to show these two as principal, which is just a way to show the greater role they play within A'man propper (i.e. the Intelligence Corps and Research Dept. are both headed bya Brig. Gen., but so is the Air Intelligence Squadron, etc., but the latter is also a part of the Air Force Corps, ditto with the Naval Inteligence Dept. viz. the Naval Corps). The Hebrew Wikipedia has A'man as a single asteric, then the Inteligence Corps (first) and the influential Research Dept. (second). So I followed that model, but my list is much more comprehensive than theirs, as it lists all these other bodies; so any ideas on that front would be greatly appreciated. *** The role of the military censor was translated by me from this, as a quote of: צנזורה צבאית והפעלתה, though I don't object to modifying to make it more intelligable (i.e. they operate the military censor, etc.) Bad Engrish on my part, again? El_C 07:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I had no idea you spoke Japanese! Not sure I got the way all those bodies are part of something else, but I tried something random, please check it out. Bishonen | talk 18:16, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Up and down, not side to side or back in time! Sorry, your suggestion was rejected (:D), but I appreciate the attempt. I still wish to solve it list-wise somehow. If I knew more about Wiki formatting I'd probably be able to scramble something quick, but as it appears, it may take a while to iron out. Please don't give up on ideas to improve that issue. Thank you, Bish! El_C 22:56, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RE: Re-templating

Ah yes. That proves that {{otheruses2}} isn't half as useful as I thought it was. Fixed now. Radiant_>|< 09:29, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Looks good! :) El_C 09:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RFA

Let me assure you that it's no oversight. I prefer not to vote on political motions that I have myself proposed. Radiant_>|< 11:21, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

That amuses *and* terrifies me. Thanks for clarification though! El_C 11:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Theo RFA

Thank you for supporting my RFA nomination. I appreciate your confidence. --Theo (Talk) 11:39, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's my pleasure. :) Best of luck on winning the nomination (I am confident that you will). El_C 11:45, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi El C. This is overdue, but I want to thank you for your support vote on my RFA. Thanks to my supporters, I am now an admin and I have been using my powers to better Wikipedia in general. Thank you! Linuxbeak | Talk | Desk 23:09, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Nice, congrats! :) El_C 23:16, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi! thank you for your support for my admin candidacy. I hope that you will always feel that I am a responsible administrator. JeremyA 05:25, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nicely done! El_C 07:37, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My RFA: Thanks

Hi El C! Thanks for your support on my RFA! Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:08, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not at all. Well done! El_C 13:17, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My Rfa

Thank you for supporting me! And opposing me! And supporting me! Etc. Etc. --Kbdank71 13:25, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Congrats, et cetra, etc. ! :) El_C 13:34, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

my RfA

You were right, I do want that mop after all. Also, I'd like to thank you for your vote on my previosu RfA, especially considering our previous contact on RfA is was particularly nice. Thanks, and let's hope all our future interactions are as least as happy. --W(t) 18:28, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)

I confess to still being interested in oppossing, supporting, opposing, supporting your RFA! El_C 23:54, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Anti-gay phone company

LOL!! Where did you find it? You come up with the funniest things. Progress is being made on the size-of-things issue, by the way, no thanks to the terrible twins. SlimVirgin (talk) 19:33, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Heh, glad you approve! I could tell you, but then I'd have to... pick you up and hold you so as to thoroughly and mercilessly pet. El_C 22:33, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My RFA

Thank you for supporting my RFA. Guettarda 23:39, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not at all. Great to have you!

Fidel Castro

Hey El C, I would just like to point out that I have presented many, many sources stating, verbatim, what I have written in the Fidel Castro page (both about the healthcare thing and more extensively about the political repression bit), yet Grace Note keeps reverting and calling it "POV pushing". Are these grounds for a temporary ban or some kind of warning?
Also, when I'm not even addressing her, she keeps making personal attacks: Terms like "Weberian" don't mean anything to you because you have no idea what they mean. This is getting quite out of hand. Kapil 07:12, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
More evidence of personal attacks: Concerning the following: You keep attacking me calling me a "rightwing troll" and contributing nothing to discussions, instead focusing your rage on me. This is unacceptable behaviour and I'm asking you to stop immediately and make constructive debate instead of insulting me. You're wasting your time and wikipedia reputation, Grace Note replied: Kapil, you are a rightwing troll. Kapil 07:27, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) Also, sorry about mistreating you earlier man. Mis respetos. Kapil 05:45, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) I would also like to point out that 172, when presented with adequate sources, reverted my edit saying "Sources? Of course the claim is true, but it is so vague as to be meaningless. Every state inherently engages in repression.". When I didn't present sources they bitched and whined, now I got like 6 sources and they still dispute and revert lazily. Can't I do something? Can an admin? Kapil 07:02, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Responded on Kapil's talk page here. El_C 07:37, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Heh, just noticed, sorry about messing up your formatting :P Kapil 07:54, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Not at all, everyone does it, I am totally used to it! :D El_C 07:56, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Too much credit

You gave me much too much credit! Meanwhile, Slim has passed on your four Kitties of the Apocalypse to me—I think I'm meant to imagine them carrying the pale riders 82.35.37.118, Pcpcpc, Oliver Chettle, and Gillian Tipson. Bishonen | talk 08:23, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I am new! I love friendly sockpuppets, but you know (you know) what I love more! Yase, that's right, answers.com! If only I could persuade it to marry me. Don't you think we'd make a cute couple! How I love it, it's dreamy interface, everything about it. El_C 08:32, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You two are flirting again behind my back. SlimVirgin (talk) 08:50, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

When it comes to answers.com, it's an uncontrollable urge and obessession, which I call love/lust/psychosis! El_C 09:00, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

WikiDefender_Barnstar

This Defender of the Wiki Barnstar is awarded by User:Tabib for El C's role in Azerbaijan entry.

El C,

I want to award this Defender of the Wiki barnstar to you for your principled position in fighting against vandal Rovoam and for your participation in Azerbaijan entry.

You are actually the first person whom I am presenting any sort of barnstars. Somehow, before I though that this could be given only by a special admin decision, but I am glad that this is not the case, and I can express my gratitude to you in such a small way. Tabib 11:37, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow, thanks Tabib! And, phew, welcome back! I've never been awarded a barnstar before either, so this is new for both of us! (hmm, that didn't come out like I wanted it to :p). More on the actual material, on your talk page. Somewhat at the defence of this notorious Azeri nationalist, he didn't treat me too poorly, perhaps because somehow he understood that I have to combat vandalism from both the Azeri and Armenian sides (and many other parallels with respect to other countries). I was actually attempting to foster some sort of a dialogue with him, because, as I told him, he's just wasting his own and everyone elses time. All the nationalist rehatoric aside, I still can't pin down the issue he takes with the respective articles in any concrete way. I was tempted to issue my 1st page proetction ever, but opted against it considering all these articles were already protected for so long. Thanks again! Yours, El_C 22:02, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Indulgence

File:Indulgence.PNG
One Plenary Indulgence

I hereby award you this plenary indulgence for reasons that we both know. — Essjay · talk 06:15, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, Essjay. I am (belatedly!) honoured. El_C 06:58, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Just making sure there isn't any remaining confusion: My indulgence is completely unrelated to the Azerbaijan issue. I didn't even know Azerbaijan existed until El C mentioned it. Essjay · talk 09:04, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • The more you know* :) Two barnstars in one day! Considering until today the total number of barnstarts I've been awarded (or deleted, also 2 today!) amount to ... zero, coincedence is all around me. Wau. El_C 09:08, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And ensuing confusion!

I'm confused...I got your message, but I'm not sure exactly what it meant. By the way, I was serious about the indulgence! I give them to a lot of people who earn my respect/admiration. (Check your email.) — Essjay · talk 06:29, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Responded here. Please accept my apologies. Still a little on edge from lastnight and today about Azerbaijan. And actually, unfairly to the Azeri nationalists, they haven't targetted me personally, only Tabib. I think I should have a break & some tea. :) El_C 06:52, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's perfectly okay! It was one of those strange coincidences that seems almost too odd to be true. At first, I thought: "I think I'm being accused of something." Then I looked up Azeri nationalist and I thought: "Why would he think I'm a Azeri nationalist? There isn't anything in my edit history or user page to suggest that I even know where Azerbaijan is! He must be as confused as I am!" Anyhow, I hope you'll accept my sincere apology for causing you any distress, and will take my original note for what I meant it to be: a sincere word of praise for you! If I could, I'd pay for your tea! Good work, we need more admins like you and I think you know what I mean. ;-> — Essjay · talk 07:03, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Totally strange coincidences! Though the culmination of which being are largely a product of my paranoic and feverish mind. No, no, don't apologize, t'was entirely my fault, but thank you for accepting my apology. And thank you so much for the exceptionally kind words, as well as the award (which I now bothered to read!). And my tea is already paid for, friend, if only I could send you some through this fiberoptic cable; it's one of the best brands of green tea South Korea has to offer! Many thanks to you. Cordially & sinecrely yours, El_C 07:15, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Comments lacking Grace

A flopsy bunny rabbit, in a typically relaxed pose, embarking on an edit at Terrorism before tackling Arab-Israeli conflict and North American Man/Boy Love Association. -- SV

Speaking of Zionist terrorism, you might want to look at a similar level of commenting (and POV pushing) at Terrorism. Jayjg (talk) 23:37, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jeez, whatever next! My dog will be complaining about my fleas and my cat will be demanding that I don't bring mice in from the fields. Grace Note 02:02, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'll try to have a look at it soon. I'm sure he has some points I agree with, but he's approaching these issues with great haste, seemingly little familiarity with the material, and this angst. It isn't as if these articles don't lack tension already. Sheesh. El_C 23:44, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tension? What tension? It's a picnic. When you see the word terrorism in Wikipedia, think flopsy bunny rabbits and that'll get you in the right mood. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:51, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

I, somehow, got great (and preverse?) pleasure from your use of the word flopsy. Thank you for that! El_C 23:58, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Now that is what I call flopsy! Meanwhile, the realm of Israeli national security is proving surprisingly tension-free, which is to say, totally solitary. El_C 00:46, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

User:Grace Note

Cheers... it's good to know this. Pretty disgusting behaviour from Grace Note, really. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:10, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, deeply dissapointing, Ta bu shi da yu. El_C 07:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
My advise, for what it's worth: put that editor on RFC. Personal attacks are not acceptable. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think that's a tad too hasty at this point. Like Kapil, I want to give him a fair chance to redeem himself from personal attacks (by refraining from them), without the stress of an RFC (the diffs are there just the same). But certainly, no more slips. El_C 07:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Trey Stone

Thanks, I also just spotted that he was back to edit warring. I've blocked him again for six hours. I told him to behave well but I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that he's utterly incapable of exercising self-control. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 08:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Responded here. El_C 08:36, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Comments deleted by Tony Sidaway can be found here. El_C 00:22, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Missing

Yep. Guess I should have said something? [2] Note Pharlap's presence. He hasn't returned to offer "evidence." In fact, I don't know if he's been around since he and I got into it a few weeks ago on in Talk: African American history. Note also: [3] He posted a notice asking for assistance, but I just checked. No takers. Not surprising. I don't guess too many people want to come to the aid of the likes of WW. I haven't done or said anything w/regard to the evidentiary phase of this process. I figure I've done and said all I care/need to. (Is there something I should be doing?) Thanks for your ongoing interest/assistance. :) Peace. deeceevoice 12:56, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

They were supposed to issue some sort of statement, no? What was the point of that then? We knew he wasn't coming back. Well, so long as you're happy. Let me know if you are and I'll remove the request for clarification. Best regards, El_C 13:17, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Silverback

This is disgusting, and for me the last straw. [4] May I ask for your help in requesting arbitration against this user? 172 20:53, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Honestly, I would just ignore it, seems pretty toothless. But sure. El_C 23:06, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I had nothing to do with the above graphics. Get your facts straight 172! --Silverback 22:51, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Sacred memory of the Archbishop

File:Archbishopromero.jpg
Archbishop Óscar Romero

While celebrating mass at a small chapel near his cathedral, Romero was shot to death while he was giving a sermon in which he called for soldiers to disobey orders that violated basic human rights. It is believed that his assassins were members of Salvadoran death squads, including two graduates of the School of the Americas. This view was supported in 1993 by an official UN report, which identified the man who ordered the killing as Major Roberto D'Aubuisson, who later founded the Nationalist Republican Alliance (ARENA), a political party which came to power in 1989 and still rules today.

  • "And if they kill me, I will rise again in the Salvadoran people."
  • "Brothers, you came from our own people. You are killing your own brothers. Any human order to kill must be subordinate to the law of God, which says, 'Thou shalt not kill'. No soldier is obliged to obey an order contrary to the law of God. No one has to obey an immoral law. It is high time you obeyed your consciences rather than sinful orders. The church cannot remain silent before such an abomination. ... In the name of God, in the name of this suffering people whose cry rises to heaven more loudly each day, I implore you, I beg you, I order you: stop the repression."
  • "No one can celebrate a genuine Christmas without being truly poor. The self-sufficient, the proud, those who, because they have everything, look down on others, those who have no need even of God – for them there will be no Christmas. Only the poor, the hungry, those who need someone to come on their behalf, will have that someone. That someone is God, Emmanuel, God-with-us. Without poverty of spirit there can be no abundance of God."
  • "We are workers, not master builders; ministers, not messiahs. We are prophets of a future not our own."

Who aren't I?

Hey ElC: A vote was just posted on the Vicarius Filii Dei VfD by an IP that signed your signature; I don't have any reason to think it wasn't you, but just to be sure, I thought I'd leave you a note. -- Essjay · Talk 10:04, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate that. :D Yes, tis me — other admins can vouch for it. Sorry for the confusion. I'm having difficulties staying logged in, so I gave up for now. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, should have it fixed later today. Oh and note this. All the best, El_C 11:26, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. Who aren't you? A bad guy, that's who you aren't! I figured it was you, but I was a bit paranoid; I've been working on the Doppelganger account policy, and it has me expecting to find impersonators everywhere. Not to mention, there's a history of vote fraud on VfD. Glad to hear it was you!
Also, I looked at your "testimony" (do they call it testimony?) to the ArbCom; I was a bit leery of saying what I did in my vote ("Refer the nominator to ArbCom...") for fear of being e-stalked, but I decided to go with it. I don't know that I can claim the title "foremost expert," but thank you for the honor! As for snopes.com, their own FAQ says "We don't expect anyone to accept us as the ultimate authority on any topic." I was really suprised he countered Barfooz and my comments the way he did; I cited the official site of the the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod! I had already seen jtdirl's note about possible harassment, but I was convinced by his comments to me. I just hope I'm not the next to be attacked. -- Essjay · Talk 11:59, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
Dear Essjay, you will not the next to be attacked, you have my word on that. I already feel bad enough for having let Jtdirl suffer as he did for five days since I warned Skyring to act professionally, with the full knowledge that he would not. At my defence, I've had an exteremly intense (and intensive, extensive) time myself, but still, that's no excuse. And as for being one of Wikipedia's foremost experts on Catholic scholarship, believe it or not, we do not, in fact, have too many editors with four doctorates in this field. I highly doubt we have even a single editor with three. :) Thank you again for all your kind words. All the best, El_C 12:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm glad to hear that, although I think you're being too hard on yourself; even if you'd sworn in blood to protect him, there's only so much you can do. As for my academic credentials, two of those doctorates are honorifics, so I didn't really do anything to get them. Modesty aside, I'll wear the title with pride. Thanks, and peace be with you. -- Essjay · Talk 12:37, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Skyring

Please don't in any way feel guilty for Skyring's behaviour. He and he alone is responsible for it. I deeply appreciate all your comments and support. There have been individuals like Skyring here before. Two of the most notorious were User:DW and User:Lir. DW was banned permanently from Wikipedia for first of all mounting a campaign of dubious personalised edits in breach of NPOV rules and the Manual of Style, then harrassing and bullying people who challenged him. His campaign led some excellent Wikipedians to quit. Eventually he was banned, all his work deleted and the instruction given that everytime he reappeared under false names his edits were to be deleted on sight. Lir caused chaos around them for months, then promised to turn a new leaf. When I came back after a long break from Wikipedia I found that they had been banned again, permanently. I guess for all the promises they had reverted to their previous behaviour.

But again I want to stress, don't feel in any way responsible for what has happened here over the last week. The responsibility lies 100% with Skyring and no-one else. FearÉIREANNFile:Ireland flag large.png\(talk) 17:58, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate that. I did intend to keep an eye on it though. Thanks again for understanding. Yours, El_C 21:23, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Help

El C, are you around? I'm trying to nominate someone for adminship, but can't see how to do it (surprise). SlimVirgin (talk) 10:09, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

It's okay. I figured it out. Sheesh, I'm hopeless. If you'd like to be the second vote of my first nomination, please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Willmcw, and I hope you will, as he's a truly excellent candidate. SlimVirgin (talk) 10:22, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
I was 3rd, Zzyzx11 beat me to it by 1 minute. But I stole his spot nonetheless! :D El_C 10:29, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You were the spiritual second. I need to find myself a computing course. I'd love to find out what this Internet business is all about, for example. And speaking of confusion, I didn't understand your post on my talk page. SlimVirgin (talk) 10:41, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
Do you mean the repetition? I don't think you can change it; the developers can, but they're unlikely to. I once reverted some vandalism on an Israel-related page, which said something like "Zionist scum, I bet you'll delete this as soon as you see it," and because of some horrible editing glitch (the servers had been funny all week), the edit was credited to my name, instead of the revert. I got a note on my talk page about it, saying it seemed out of character. LOL! I wrote to one of the developers asking if it could be deleted, but I never got a response, so the stupid thing is still under my name somewhere. SlimVirgin (talk) 11:08, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I'll probably get blocked for 3RR over my urge to be temporal 2nd! *** No, I think you misunderstand the issue. No worries, I'll ask Raul. El_C 11:49, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

El C, I'm disappointed that you're asking Raul for help instead of me, as you know you can come to me with all your technical issues. SlimVirgin (talk) 12:17, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks (2nding!)

Thank you for your support for my adminship. I'm particularly honored by your seconding thirding seconding of the nomination. Cheers, -Willmcw 21:09, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I will be 2nd even if it kills me, which it might. :) El_C 00:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A'man title

Before reverting all the changes I made in all the other articles, do you mind finishing the discussion first? I waited for a week with no reply, you could at least wait for a few minutes.--Doron 10:00, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We need clear redirects from A'man, since I have already changed it for well-founded reasons; we can't have inconsistencies on that front in other articles. But I'll refrain from changing Magav back to IZAK's version, even though I do intend on doing so. El_C 10:26, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Good faith

I cannot help suspecting that the argument which we have been having contributed considerably to your need for a break. I never intended to have a row with you (or anyone else) and I have no idea what caused this minor discussion about spelling and naming to become such a heated argument. I am not a native speaker of English, so if it is the wording or the style in which I write that has offended you, I sincerely apologize. I take no pleasure in pointless arguments, and I'm sorry that you think I am making circular arguments or being spiteful. I believe I made a clear (though possibly flawed) set of arguments, but we need not dwell on it.

I have just written a rather angry reply to your arguments in Talk:A'man, (I have to admit I was quite offended by your earlier post), but I will try my best to keep my tone down. I hope we can manage to get along better in the future.--Doron 06:55, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

response from Japan?

I wanted to share this with you:

Hello Kils

Just would like to state that i have very much enjoyed being involved in a project of this nature. To see the speed of co-operation between various people was (Uwe, Lupo and Salleman and all others) fantastic. It was a complete buzz to go off researching about a scientific subject and coming to some understanding and appreciation of a creature that i would have no knowledge or interest in otherwise. I would like to say that it takes a damn good teacher to get others interested in what they teach and i for one, if only in a rudimentary and general way have found the subject of Krill and sorrounding issues of ecology and environment fascinating. I think that says a lot about your willingness to let others participate in something which you obviously have great knowledge in and could easily have been a lot less humble with. At some point i will put up some informtion on my home page so at least people know a little more about me. Am going to try to extend the article on Ice-algae so any info you may have would be good. I hope the article on Antartic Krill gets featured as i think it is now very good.

Wikiversity sounds like a good idea but will need more time to go through the proposal (not too sure what help i could be).

Once again thanks Uwe! Yakuzai 22:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

that feels good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Antarctic_krill

take care Uwe Kils 23:43, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

It does, thank you, Uwe! I'm very pleased the work is appreciated. I'm about to take a break for a little while as I am facing simply too many ongoing disputes which considerably hinder from my ability to do any productive work. But at least now I can depart on a better note. :) Cordially, El_C 00:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
maybe you can vote before you go - good luck to you Uwe Kils

Poll at Talk:Terrorism

I've put together a little poll at Talk:Terrorism regarding the "lone wolf" section. Your input would be appreciated. Thx. Jayjg (talk) 19:39, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Don't let the disputes get you down and take the time you need to rest and heal. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Best, Mackensen (talk) 01:06, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

File:ElCtea.jpg
SlimVirgin (talk) 16:32, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Have a good break, El. Yes, do take that cake and vodka to go, put whatever's left on my page in your backpack, you may be glad of it in the mountains! Hoping to see you back soon! Bishonen | talk 09:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hey kiddo, I made you a nice pot of tea. Sorry about the teabag and the espresso cup. I tried to find you some darjeeling in bone china, but you just can't get the staff these days. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:32, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Um, I don't have anything amusing to say about drinks, but I do hope you have a good break and come back refreshed. Jayjg (talk)

Just dropping by to leave a belated "thanks" for your support of my RFA. Hope you are having a wonderfully relaxing Wikibreak! FreplySpang (talk) 23:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Skyring arbitration case

The arbitration committee has reached a final decision in the skyring case →Raul654 June 30, 2005 21:17 (UTC)

At last

Where the hell have you been? We've had search parties out and everything. Time to fall back in line, kiddo, and resume your duties. SlimVirgin (talk) July 2, 2005 05:52 (UTC)

I was in a place that I don't know where it is! Thanks for the tea, and thanks to everyone who partied in said tea party in my absence! El_C 2 July 2005 05:57 (UTC)
Good to see you back. Guettarda 2 July 2005 06:11 (UTC)
Thanks, Guettarda! :) El_C 2 July 2005 06:13 (UTC)
You've got a nice new one on your user page, though they'd run out of rabid cats. SlimVirgin (talk) July 2, 2005 07:35 (UTC)
Thanks! But I am not funny! El_C 2 July 2005 07:37 (UTC)
Good to see you back; pax tecum! -- Essjay · Talk July 3, 2005 06:37 (UTC)
Thank you, good to be back; Tu quoque, comitis. :) El_C 3 July 2005 09:56 (UTC)
Yay! Welcome back!! Jayjg (talk) 3 July 2005 18:21 (UTC)
Per the others! Mackensen (talk) 5 July 2005 00:03 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you very much. :) /bows El_C 5 July 2005 00:23 (UTC)

Price-Anderson Act

Thank you! · Katefan0(scribble) July 3, 2005 14:57 (UTC)

Not at all, hope it proves useful. El_C 3 July 2005 15:01 (UTC)

Would you be so kind as to list the Protected Pages on the Protected Pages Site? and state the reason - much appreciated. Benjamin Gatti 3 July 2005 17:52 (UTC)

So far so good, although it appears that User:Benjamin Gatti is trying to circumvent the page block by copying text into a redirect to the main page and editing there. [5] -- I've reverted it but wanted to bring it to your attention. · Katefan0(scribble) July 3, 2005 19:28 (UTC)
Apparently, Benjamin seems to feel that because you didn't list it on protected pages, he's free to act with impugnity. [6] · Katefan0(scribble) July 3, 2005 19:42 (UTC)

The rules have a purpose, and the publication of blocks is to raise awareness and alert the community to the problem so that rogue actions do not occur behind closed doors. In short publication defends the rights of editors against improper blocks - failing to publish deprives - in this case me - because the block include material to which i object - from making the case publically. There is reason to the madness - mostly madness, but with some reason.

BTW the fractals on your site are breathtaking - i have never seen fractals as more than chaotic and headache-inducing, these are sublime.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. Benjamin Gatti 3 July 2005 19:49 (UTC)

Thanks, I love the Mandelbrot Set, it has an enchanting depth to it, of ordered chaos – chaotic order. *** Now, the reason for the page protection is to prevent the article being reverted back and fourth to the extent that it is watseful for Wikipedia (in a technical sense), and in terms of the tension this causes among the contesting parties. The protection, then, is meant to serve as a cool-off period where the parties can take their issues to the talk page. While this is the first page protection I ever issued, I have never heard of redirects needing protection. Please do not edit the redirects. The disputing parties should take this time to try and settle their differences in the talk pages. El_C 3 July 2005 20:48 (UTC)
Though sometimes they are against persistent vandalism such as this, but that isn't the case here. El_C 4 July 2005 00:55 (UTC)
Oh, and the fact I didn't list it on WP:PP right aways is a minor oversight which has no bearing on the editing of redirects belonging to a protected page. And I did note it on WP:RFPP, so um... what was that about? El_C 6 July 2005 07:35 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you knew that we'd asked for a Mediator. Three of us have signed (myself, Benjamin Gatti, and Katefan0) on the RfM page - would you like to add your name there? Ben would like to move the debate along. Thanks, Simesa 6 July 2005 06:35 (UTC)

No, I didn't know that. I'm not following you, though. What do you mean add my name? I'm not a party to the dispute, so I am not in need of any mediating myself — I'm just the admin who protected the contested pages. Now, if there's anything I could do the expedite a resolution to this dispute, please let me know, but I fail to see how this makes sense. Or am I misunderstanding the question...? El_C 6 July 2005 07:35 (UTC)

Thanks for the protection, I hope we can resolve our disputes. BTW - two users have made changes on Nuclear Power, which is tagged as Protected - is there a problem? Simesa 6 July 2005 19:02 (UTC)

Not at all. I see that Ed is your mediator, you're in good hands. It looks like the two changes to Nuclear Power involved minor edits (categories and such), I'll check to see if it's still protected, though. Goodluck! [gah, mis-spelled nuclear] El_C 6 July 2005 23:47 (UTC)

History of Armenia

Now I know that I myself just reverted a few of this guy's link additions, and I'm the guy that asked about them this morning on WP:VIP — but this one, on the main article for the history of Armenia, I think is valuable. The external site is very good, and includes a complete scholarly history of Armenia in well over a hundred pages; so while every minor article about Armenia should prolly not have a link to that page, our main page on the topic would benefit from one, i.e., we shouldn't cut off our nose to spite our face.... I'm not reverting you — I really hate controversy! — but encourage you to reconsider? Best, Bill 3 July 2005 15:05 (UTC)

Heh, a few? Note that I reverted that link over fifty times. Sure, no problem, done. El_C 3 July 2005 15:17 (UTC)

My pachiis! :-(

Gone! You know, they can't have been deleted long, I'm sure I saw them yesterday. Who would do such a thing? Copyright shmoppyright! :-( Bishonen | talk 6 July 2005 00:53 (UTC)

The answer is nixie, but at his defence, I did upload it as ({{copyvio}} People's Pachii), etc., heh. El_C 6 July 2005 00:57 (UTC)

LaRouche etc.

Ah yes, LaRouche was in the SWP (I think), or at least some of its split groups. That quote reminds me of a former SWPer's amusing observation: "[The SWP told me] the Workers World Party was a 'cult around Sam Marcy.' I had never heard the term cult applied to socialist groups before and tried to imagine what this meant. Did WWP members keep portraits of Marcy on their living-room wall? I only discovered years later that nearly all Trotskyist groups were cults."

I'm not high on LaRouche, I'm not even sure what the hell he's saying regarding the economy half the time. On the other hand, if the Lyndon LaRouche page needs to be made good, factual, NPOV and so forth, I'm convinced Adam Carr is not the person to make it so. He's fanatically POV, he doesn't argue facts but throws mud and launches ad hominems against people and so forth. The LaRouche page is in danger from two sides - people beholden to LaRouche, and people who probably have a fanatical hatred of LaRouche. My main concern with the LaRouche page is Carr doesn't treat anyone unfairly (I think he has already) or makes POV edits. Most of the other people editing the page, including you, seem to have their heads screwed on straight.

Fraternally, Ruy Lopez 6 July 2005 07:23 (UTC)

Nearly? Ah, I see what you mean, perhaps a few Trotskyite groups were finally granted organized religion status. That would make sense.

Second, I don't think Adam Carr intends to edit the LaRouche page/s in even remotely appreciable way. Yes, I wish he would be more professional and social-scientific with you, but I don't think that can really be officially challenged, since the Wikipedia Establishment's ideological bias mirrors his own, meaning they will overlook everything and anything to reach this end of propagating that bias as npov.

Third, I fail to see how LaRouch is an economist exactly, as in the lead sentence. Even if the AP made such a mention at one point (where though?), that is not something he notable for to my knolwdge, among any current out there outside of his own movement. As you aptly said: "I'm not even sure what the hell he's saying regarding the economy half the time." Indeed. Fraternally yours, El_C 6 July 2005 08:30 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, thanks for catching the nuisance edits on my user page (and other people's). --Suitov 6 July 2005 08:42 (UTC)

Not at all. T'was pretty exciting, actually. By the time I scrambled to block that account (after I realizing reverting was just slowing it down), it had already managed to blank many more pages, making the whole affaire seem really real-time. :) El_C 6 July 2005 09:17 (UTC)

Re: the israel link. See other discussion here and here. It's his personal site and his english isn't very good, and as such I don't think he understands the objections to the link. I've pointed him to the Hebrew version as I thought this would help. Thanks for keeping an eye on this. Jgritz 7 July 2005 07:03 (UTC)

No problem, it isn't too difficult to keep up with it. I didn't realize he had difficulties communicating in English. I'll let him know that he can communicate to me in Hebrew if he so wishes. Hopefuly, we can move this thing toward to a resolution. El_C 7 July 2005 07:29 (UTC)

Unchained

Ok, you have served enough time. I've unblocked you. Please, don't get provoked by trolls like Trey Stone. The ArbCom moves slowly but every sign suggests that they will eventually ban him, probably for a year, so be patient. Pick your battles wisely, comrade. -- Viajero | Talk 7 July 2005 16:35 (UTC)

PS Nice work work keeping People's war NPOV. -- Viajero | Talk 7 July 2005 16:35 (UTC)

El C, did you get blocked? What naughtiness were you up to? -- Essjay · Talk July 7, 2005 17:35 (UTC)

Nothing special, I was trolled and lost my temper. I self-reprimended myself for that via a self-block. El_C 7 July 2005 21:22 (UTC)

Remember that indulgence I granted you a while back? I'm granting you another one for troll whacking.

“Jimbo, the Father of Wikipedia, through the death and resurrection of Nupedia has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Wiki among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Admins may Jimbo give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of Jimbo, and of the Admins, and of the Holy Wiki.”

As your penance, you must pray this prayer five times: "Please, grant me the serenity to accept the pages I cannot edit, The courage to edit the pages I can, And the wisdom to whack the hell out of any troll who gets in my way. Amen."

Your wiki-sins are forgiven, go and sin some more. Pax tecum! -- Essjay · Talk July 7, 2005 21:58 (UTC)

A new Wiki religion? Who would have thunk it! I mean, Et tecum pax. :) El_C 7 July 2005 22:04 (UTC)

Something you might be interested in

I'd like to get at least one admin watching this...Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Túpac Amaru II. As a historian, I'm hoping at least you will (I'm posting this to 5 admins). Tomer TALK July 8, 2005 05:08 (UTC)

Obvious keep, I'll keep my eye on it. Thanks for bringing this to me attention, Tomer. El_C 8 July 2005 05:35 (UTC)

In that vein could you also check out the article itself as well as my related comments at Talk:Túpac Amaru II#Revolutionary groups? Thanks. Tomer TALK July 8, 2005 20:11 (UTC)

I'll look into it now. El_C 8 July 2005 20:36 (UTC)

flags

hey,

Glad that everyone is OK.

Re the flags - sorry if they are distracting. I put in the Irish flag yesterday, then when I heard about the bombing added the Union Jack symbolically. The UJ is only a temporary part of the sig. I only planned to leave it in for two or three days. The Irish one is a bit of a problem. I tried to see could I shrink it but if I do, it becomes a blur with red lines all over it. I have been trying to find a better sized one but have had no luck so far. All the alternatives don't have a yellow background that blend in to Wikipedia and they are all clumsy and don't look great. But if the current one is a distraction I'll remove it. I simply added it in because I found my old sig a bit boring and when I came across the gif I liked the idea of a flowing flag. It gave the page a bit of movement and energy.

Slán. FearÉIREANNFile:Irish flag.gifFile:Animated-union-jack-01.gif SOLIDARITY WITH THE PEOPLE OF LONDON\(caint) 8 July 2005 00:48 (UTC)

I still can't get through on the phone, actually, but I'm 99% sure they're fine since they live outside of London. Still, anxious though.

I had no idea anything happned till I hit the mainpage (I usually I don't check the news until later on in the day).

Naturally, I don't mind you having that sig for a few days in light of these tragic events, of course not.

Yours, El_C 8 July 2005 01:01 (UTC)

File:Vulpes zerda sitting.jpg
Let me know when you hear, will you? SlimVirgin (talk) July 8, 2005 01:10 (UTC)
Definitely. El_C 8 July 2005 01:27 (UTC)
I've put one of the little Union Jack gifs on my talk page. I'm not usually a flag waver, but just for a couple of days. SlimVirgin (talk) July 8, 2005 02:47 (UTC)
I saw this conversation earlier and did the same. Guettarda 8 July 2005 02:49 (UTC)
I think these gestures matter. And speaking of talk pages, thank you for my fox, El C. ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) July 8, 2005 02:51 (UTC)
I like Fennecs, they look so pet-able! I just got through on the phone now, everyone is fine, of course. *Deep breath* El_C 8 July 2005 03:03 (UTC)
Good to hear. Guettarda 8 July 2005 03:04 (UTC)
Thanks, Guettarda, and Slim. It ended up being very stressful, even though I knew they were safe. Perhpas I'm losing it (though I actually have good reasons to be overly-paranoid on the terrorist attacks front – long and tragic story). Well, I'm glad to know for sure that they are, in fact, safe. El_C 8 July 2005 05:35 (UTC)

Congo Genocide

If you're going to characterize the war in the Congo as a genocide, don't just do it in the lead to the article on Congo-Kinshasa. It should also be in the article on the Second Congo War, and in Genocides_in_history#The_Congo - especially in the first. The article on the Second Congo War should explain: why do you call it genocidal? what ethnicity was being systematically killed? by whom? Otherwise, the label of genocidal rings hollow, and is weakened. Thanks, Dosai 9 July 2005 05:04 (UTC)

Yeah, I see (but disagree with) your point, it has to come from the UN, or at least some imperialist countries (Bangladesh and Nambia, for example, not being among them), but I'm prfoundly bitter over it, nor do I place that much more faith in the statements of MONUC over Gen. Laurent Nkunda; I mistrust them both. It is MONUC's (&others) abominable actions and lack thereof which rings more than hollow.
  • http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR620222002?open&of=ENG-COD -- "The organization receives consistent reports of large-scale killings of unarmed civilians that are carried out, ordered and condoned by leaders using ethnic affiliations to acquire or maintain economic and political power. As a result, armed clashes between members of the Hema and Lendu ethnic groups has left an estimated 50,000, mainly civilian, dead since June 1999, and forced around 500,000 people to flee, with 60,000 displaced in Bunia, the capital of Ituri province, alone." (emphasis added)
  • http://www.unis.unvienna.org/unis/pressrels/2001/sc7186.html -- "RUHUL AMIN [Bangladeshi Director General for Multilateral Economic Affairs (MEA) of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Counsellor Permanent Mission of Bangladesh to the United Nations at the Security Council] said he was outraged to learn of the crimes of genocide in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the extremely disturbing reports of some 750 civilians being been massacred. Armed forces continued to harass and make arbitrary arrests and there was forced recruitments and rape. He said the Interahamwe had committed a reign of terror; it was time to bring an end to such activities."
  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3869489.stm -- DR Congo pygmies 'exterminated.' The International Criminal Court is being urged to investigate "a campaign of extermination" against pygmies in the Democratic Republic of Congo. (6 July, 2004)
  • http://wmun2005.piranho.com/wmun/judgement_floribert.doc -- And while the judgment concluded that: "Mr. Njabu Ngabu acted in accordance with his duties under Art. 28 RS, his criminal liability for the genocidal acts of his subordinates cannot be estsablished [and the ICC found] Mr. Njabu Ngabu NOT GUILTY of the crime of genocide (Art. 6 RS) under superior responsibility as a military commander (Art. 28(a) RS)." [Still,] The Court holds that Mr. Njabu Ngabu did not violate any of his duties with regard to the incident in Bunia on 6 May 2003. Due to the wartime circumstances in the region, Mr. Njabu Ngabu did not have the material possibilities to prevent the attack." *** meaning someone committed and led that attack nonentheless.
  • Google cache -- "Media echoes Nujoma's [President of Nambia] condemnation of genocide in DRC"
  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1340266.stm -- UN warned of DR Congo 'genocide' (2001) *** "The Democratic Republic of Congo and its allies have accused the UN of ignoring a "genocide" of 2.5 million people in the rebel-held east of the country. '[W]e call upon the international community, especially the UN, to condemn this genocide being committed,' said Namibian President Sam Nujoma."
  • http://www.allthingspass.com/uploads/html-UVM_Lecture.htm -- [keith harmon snow lecture: WAR CORRESPONDENT, GENOCIDE EXPERT AT UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT, 15 March 2005] In 2004, Snow worked for Genocide Watch and Survivors Rights International documenting crimes against humanity and genocide in Ethiopia and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). His reports have influenced the World Organization Against Torture, Human Rights Watch, the United Nations and the US Government. *** he big story is Congo, Snow says, where some six million people have died since 1998. And the war started in 1996, and before that there was Mobutu Sese Seko, the dictator of thirty some years. Thousands and thousands of women and girls have been raped in Congo, but its pretty much kept quiet in the news. There's a lot of powerful mining interests in Congo, and you wonÕt believe who is involved.
  • http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=242324&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/ -- which brings us back to Njabu Ngabu: "'If you put the meetings, the financial support and the house together, clearly it’s a relationship,' Anneke van Woudenberg, author of the HRW report, told the M&G. 'There is no way AGA could have got access to the Mongbwalu area without developing a relationship with the FNI,' she added. The report quotes FNI leader Floribert Njabu Ngabu as saying: 'I am the one who gave AGA permission to come. I am the boss of Mongbwalu.' "
  • http://www.crimesofwar.org/onnews/news-congo.html -- 'Can the Inetrnational Communityavert genocide in the DRoC?' May 21, 2003] "'Our evaluation, from what we know, it could be a genocide' said Carla del Ponte, prosecutor for the UN war crimes tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda on May 13, referring to the latest outbreak of violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo."
  • http://www.monuc.org/News.aspx?newsID=2874 -- Apperently rebel leader, General Laurent Nkunda, self-corrected himself on whether genocide had taken place in Banyamulenge. *** " 'I withdraw unconditionally. I was mistaken. There has been no genocide against Banyamulenge in Bukavu,' Laurent Nkunda told MONUC officials yesterday evening."
  • http://www.monuc.org/NewsPrint.aspx?NewsID=2908 -- rebel leader, General Laurent Nkunda misquoted? *** Interview: VOA: "Apparently you told MONUC your were misguided as to the genocide of Banyamulenge. When did you find out you were mistaken?" G.N: "I didn't say that, and I was surprised that they put those words in my mouth. Once we began the war, they asked me to speak, but today at least people spoke in my place. That is what surprised me. But I never said that I had made a mistake, because until now I known there was genocide. I have the names of the victims. Until now, I am waiting for an investigation to be set up so responsibilities can be established."
And so we wait. "Just the tip of the iceberg." Anyway, I'm bound by the infamously delayed response of the UN. I was actually under the impression the German government called it a genocide, but apperently I confused their recent admittion of genocide in Namibia earleir in the Century. My argument is that there is genocide, but the powers are not interested in it being made public at this point (nor placed under a comprehensive framework), and I suppose I am bound by their ownership over the means of communication, investigation, and, erm, prevention. I lose my argument (here), the DRoC loses much more, each and every day. But that is not for us to know. Yet. Which, I suppose means, no genocidal attribution to the 2nd Congo War. Potent doublespeak, but Wikiepdia is a reliable source of info. This is why I write so little about current conflicts in Africa, one cannot stand up to the organized supression, distortion, understatement and unreliability of information; not on Wikipedia, which seeks to mirror the main stream media rather than attempting to go beyond it. To Wikipedia it is all original research. ~ Five million dead, yet somehow no appreciable number have been targetted especially, though(?) It is a lie. History will vindicate my claims. You may remove the word until such time when the turth comes out more explicitly in the mainstream. El_C 22:01, 9 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reading. I will remove "genocidal" from the lead to the DRoC article. You needn't be so cynical. What you have done is not original reserch - but the above is drawn from existing sources. You should write a wikipedia article (or section in the article on the Second Congo War) on "The Case for Genocide in the Second Congo War". There's a place, even a need, for such an article. It would highlight the politics involved in labelling a conflict as a genocide, and hence explain why western countries are so slow to label a conflict as such. To get things started, I copied these links to Talk:Second_Congo_War#The_Case_for_Genocide Dosai 17:41, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You misunderstood me, profoundly. Also, you mistake pathos (and realism) for cynicism. El_C 09:57, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wareware & the Arb Com

Hey. :) It just dawned on me that your last note to me in the above matter may have been a sideways notification that the case had been dropped by the Arb Com -- when I thought you were simply telling me that the case had been accepted. I didn't realize until about two (or three) weeks ago that the case had been dropped. Apparently, the Arb Com didn't see fit to notify me of its decision[7] (or Wareware, judging from his talk page). (Go figure.) Can you say "tacky"? How 'bout "incompetent"? I'm glad they didn't insist on a reformatting of my RfC submission for the Arb Com process. I would have been really annoyed/P.O.'ed to have gone through all that for nothing.

At any rate, the matter is officially closed. So much for hoping for a ruling on principle. Again, I want to convey my thanks to you for all your help and support. Hope all is well w/you. Peace. :) deeceevoice 06:48, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, not quite. Up 'til now, I'd let the dropping of the case pass without comment, but after leaving you a note, I decided to tell the Arb Com what I think of their handling of this matter. [8] And, yes, they can play Wikicop and suspend me, but, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." :p Peace. deeceevoice 07:15, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sideways? You didn't follow the link, I thought you did, I linked it for a reason, here (and it ended with this, which I thought you had read). Anyway, they can't notify you now; I doubt you'll get an apology for that, nor get suspended for re-raising the issue, either. El_C 13:43, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nuclear Power Protection Lifting

Hi, hey, I think lifting the protection on Nuclear Power was premature - we're just starting to mediate in [9] and if we re-start the editwarring in Nuclear Power then the hot emotions will spill over into our mediation. We decided not to ask for simultaneous mediations - could I ask for protection until we can get past Price-Anderson? Simesa 21:46, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

El C, we aren't actively working on mediating the nuclear power article, but some of the same disputes have occurred in both that article and Price-Anderson Act, which is being mediated. One of the main disputants has already tried to introduce disputes over the nuclear power article into the Price-Anderson Act mediation, and I have to believe that unprotecting either right now could be disruptive to progress. Thanks. · Katefan0(scribble) 22:31, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Well, it is somewhat problematic, since that article is broader than just the Act, of course, as in the science itself (many countries), and it being protected prevents editors from wroking on it in ways totally unrelated to the dispute over the Act. I'll reprotect it, but I'm going to give Ed a pointer, and am inclined to follow his opinion on this. I should have done that to begin with. My apologies. El_C 23:49, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with your points, maybe at this point the best way to go is to initiate mediation on the nuclear power article concurrently. · Katefan0(scribble) 15:00, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Reports removed from WP:AIV

I hereby award you this vandal whacking stick to help you in fighting the hordes of vandals.

I saw you removed these with the comment "seems to have subsided". Not sure I understand the comment. Reported vandalism yesterday on Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress. User was warned (the user was previously warned for vandalising Santa Claus in January), but behaviour continues. I added report to the request for intervention because of the comment on the in progress page that says reported offenders who persist in behaviour after warning should be escalated for intervention. Wouldn't that apply here? In any case, I'm not sure why this should be thought of as subsided, as this happens about once a day and all edits from the reported ID appear to be vandalism. Buffyg 12:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Responded here. El_C 12:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. FYI: it happened again today. Buffyg 09:46, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the FYI. Got it. El_C 09:52, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your session

Yes, it definately looks like you've had a productive session! For all the vandal fighting you do, you deserve a vandal whacking stick. I'm working (very hard) to make it to 2000 edits, at which point Redwolf24 has promised to nominate me for admin! -- Essjay · Talk 12:45, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

It was much easier than it looks. Or, if it looks easy, it was. But many thanks! :) El_C 12:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Spade's RfMediation

Hey, El C. Nice of you to drop by and offer your support. When you have a moment, please drop by Talk:Watermelon and offer your opinion on the inclusion of a racist image there. I'm interested in your take on it. (I myself initially leaned toward its inclusion, but changed my mind.) Also, please drop by and weigh in on the VfD for Cool (aesthetic)[10], if you are so inclined. Much appreciated. Paz. :) deeceevoice 02:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

We'll see about my inclinations :p, as for the support, not at all, you deserve it. :) Yours, El_C 10:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Moldoveana

A three-word article could be considered an article? --Vasile 10:38, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a ~ 20-word sentence to me; likely to grow. El_C 10:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To bet on the future on this language could be very risky. Actually, there are 11,200 users trained in this language in the world. --Vasile 11:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there are 3.6 million speakers in the world, and I am unintnerested in such bets, at any event. El_C 12:31, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am not interested in your bets. The discussion here is about written Moldoveana, not about spoken Moldovan language. There are 11,200 isolated Romanian users trained to write this [11] in a place named Transdniestr. --Vasile 15:53, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You should add that to pertinent article/s using English sources. Please do not remove links to any .mo stubs. El_C 21:08, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Surrealist cheers

Well, that was mildly exciting. "So you are a Keith Wigdor Fan?" Yes, yes I am. Damn anti-Wigdor fanatics! El_C 23:37, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Funny

I like your sense of humour [12] Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I suck at the humor almost as much as I suck at the internet, but thanks! :D El_C 23:24, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks (from a sockpuppet!)

for the revert. I have been accused of being a sockpuppet - I have arrived in the world!!! Guettarda 23:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NP! You're moving up in the world! El_C 23:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all the reverts, El C. Your help is appreciated. I couldn't get by without all of my sockpuppets. Cheers, -Willmcw 23:55, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
I only have one sockpuppet, SV. Except she scarcely obeys my brutal command. Schizophrenia is a harsh mistress. El_C 00:01, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You're both kinda cute though. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:07, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Kinda? :( El_C 01:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

El C, help please

File:Inquisition2.jpg

Hey El C, I'm a good friend of Essjay, but thats not why I'm here. Please take a look at User Talk:Redwolf24#You like messages. Unprovoked personal attacks. :-/ Redwolf24 00:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Any friend of Essjay is a friend of mine (I think! :p). Blocked for 24 hours for disruption and personal attacks. El_C 00:15, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Very unprovoked. I've had other trolls but I just revert them and they go away. Redwolf24 00:32, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Yeah, s/he was pretty talkative. :) El_C 01:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, El C, thanks for helping out Redwolf24; I wasn't around, or I would have been all over that troll. (Granted, I can't block them yet (five more days, I hope!) but I could have at least given it a strong talking to!) I don't know why Red gathers so many, I guess it's because of all his good work welcoming; he welcomes them, they turn out to be a troll, and they go after him. I can't stand seeing a good user like Red who does so much good work around here being harassed; when I think of it, the term auto de fe comes to mind. I swear by the name of Almighty Jimbo, the trolls shall not prevail! -- Essjay · Talk 04:43, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

S/he has sent me some delightful emails, correctly criticizing my overuse of exclamation marks!1!one!! El_C 10:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! (more sockpuppets!)

Anti-vandalism appreciation smiley

Thank you for reverting the vandalism of my user page!!! -- BDAbramson talk 00:12, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Me, too. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Me, three. Grutness...wha? 00:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise. Fastest rollback button in the West! Or maybe you and Everyking both... but you got in ahead of him this time. You're good! Bishonen | talk 01:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Marry me! Bishonen | talk 01:28, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all so much, you've truly warmed my heart with your insane, sockpuppet jibberings! And marriage proposal accepted, again! /bows El_C 01:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Me too! HKT 04:35, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

213.249.154.98

File:User Saurav Bhowmik1.jpg

Hey, El C, would you look at 213.249.154.98 (talk · contribs) and consider a vandalism block? From his talk page and recent edits, he looks like a persistent vandal. Thanks! -- Essjay · Talk 10:11, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Done.. Best regards, El_C 10:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why thank you! I told you the trolls would not prevail! -- Essjay · Talk 10:18, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

That's two — two exclamation marks! El_C 10:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Have you been smoking something El C? You seem a bit giddy today... -- Essjay · Talk 10:48, July 15, 2005 (UTC)


RfC SlimVirgin

Hello. You left a comment on the above RfC that contained an error. I was never involved in reverting the page. My response is here, thought you may wish to take a look.~ Neuroscientist | T | C → 11:22, July 15, 2005 (UTC) 




I lift the shroud and make the masses proud
Crush our enemies,
Are you gonna ride with me?
Or sit in your materialistic moyogi

Race to our grave
how much more could I have gave
to the insatiable assassins that are forever laughing
like an atom cracking,
will we ever be saved?
With landmines not gold my future is paved,
love in my heart but not racist-ly raised
You want back but you never gave,
you think you're prince but you're really nave – sissy,
I bet you think you're brave
playing broke, stack your loot
the cream you save,
body boarding on light's way
The rich taunt me
specter of bill collectors haunt me
The fates of the greats leaves me undaunted
socialist dazzle mother****er and I flaunt it
Class equality and abolish poverty – I want it 

Preach knowledge with no answer, 
you speak in tongues
climb life's ladder and it has no wrongs 
My old-school compadres are spun

The rich steal my labour and my health
to bag their wealth
They got us ass backwards 
fight for the self
and not the masses,
they got us right in Congress
Anything but abolish the classes
Anything but rocking the vote of our masters
Mother****ers telling me that my vote is the answer
You simple fools
I duel your revisionism tools
You leer,
indegenous people fuc**n with cheap beer
sniffing glue,
redestroyed their world – what would you do?

My African comrades
Killed by disease and nationalism
our motherland raped and beaten by this giant mob
capitalism
Spewing fumes of death-smoke, we choke 
on consumer goods
like gunpowder-fed pits,
we kill each other in our own hoods
More and more are forced to settle in the ghetto
we whore and horde to pay the rent and fill the kettle
The rich test our mettle 
I'm an avalanche started by a pebble
I throw a rock at the devil
I rebel
In politics I meddle 
past lives several 

Esoterics,
yes, I dabble 
control the rabble 
false prophets praddle 
the lumpen cut down like cattle
In the street we battle
the bourgeois we rattle
Lift the curse
check em down from their perch  
For the truth we search at birth,
living together in harmony
I never understand why you just can't see
We'll kill you just like we did the Nazi

Let's clean the names 
of the heroes the rich besmirched
Spiritualism is valid
just make it an equal portion of the salad

Life is callous 
mass confusion
cats living in delusion
stalled evolution
each breath I taste pollution
no respect for women, 
just a cushion for the pushin'  
Lions laid and wait
and ambushes from the bushes
Watch how hard this player pushes through
in and out a pussy like a douche
he rush your tw*t like swat
he makes more than your pussy pop
leave you broken 
All to say is bambaclat

I mark 
rats, rapists, police agents and snitches
Subject deep lyrics vicious
pockets broke
mental riches
rathead bitches
capitalistic wishes
personal issues
You've never heard words like these
they're free so don’t say please
you're the host of degree disease 
Stay clam
smoke balm 
you better sound the alarm
Revolution's cold so dress warm
like millions of locus we swarm
the children of corn
destroy child porn
Heed to seed our plant
feel the impression of my stamp

--Comrade Zearle.
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