Talk:Michael Jackson

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Business career (1984–85)

The changes requested below have been made. Aleskr (talk), 17 November 2010

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Please change: "However, McCartney later changed his mind and tried to persuade John Lennon's widow Yoko Ono to join him in a joint bid. Ono declined, and McCartney pulled out."

to: "Previously, McCartney was offered the ATV catalog for £20 million ($40 million USD) in 1981. He contacted Yoko Ono to make a joint purchase by splitting the cost equally at £10 million each, but Ono thought they could buy it for £5 million each. When they were unable to, he let the offer fall through, not wanting to pay the £20 million himself."

McCartney tried to make a joint purchase with Yoko Ono when he was OFFERED the catalog for £20 million in 1981, NOT when MJ was bidding for it in 1984. He never attempted to place a bid when the catalog was put up for sale in 1984. These two sources confirm the £20 million offer and failed attempt to make a joint purchase was prior to the 1984 open bidding:

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=michael-jackson-john-branca (see section "Jackson Invests")

http://mjjinfo.blogspot.com/2010/11/paul-mccartney-refused-to-buy-atv.html (Audio and transcript of McCartney talking being "OFFERED the songs to buy for £20 million pounds" and letting the offer fall through)

The specific year of the offer as 1981 was given here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing#Acquisition in the sentence, "McCartney had previously attempted to purchase the catalog alongside John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono in 1981." with Taraborrelli, J. Randy (2004). The Magic and the Madness. Terra Alta, WV (2004) p335–338 as the reference

The above wikipedia (citing Taraborrelli) and pophistorydig.com articles both confirm that after Jackson was notified of the sale in September 1984, John Branca contacted McCartney's attorney who said McCartney would not bid because the catalog was too "pricey". There is no mention of McCartney changing his mind after that.

Aleskr (talk), 17 November 2010

death

Please change the lines about Michael Jackson dying after "suffering" from cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest means the heart has stopped, so 100% of people "suffer" from cardiac arrest when they die. I'm not sure if the official cause of death is known, but it could be changed to something like, "after administration of several powerful drugs such as propofol, Michael Jackson suffered a cardiac arrest and died."

Pop Singer Michael Jackson

The Name That Should Be Used In The Begining Of Michael Jackson's Wikipedia Page Is His Birth Name, Which Is Michael Joseph Jackson,That Is The Name He Has Always Gone By.Blooper2011 (talk) 20:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

This is an interesting case. The ref cites a document on the page that uses "Joe," but the main FOIA FBI page [5] says "Joseph." The SSDI also says Joseph. So therefore, I've changed it back to Joseph. hbdragon88 (talk) 06:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

What should we do here - his middle name is Joseph as indicated on all the books he has written and published like Moomwalk -- so what do we do here - should we change it back again? and remove the ref that is there - because all know that's driver's licence dont always use full valid name - i dont have my full middle name on my driver's licence...Moxy (talk) 16:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Michael Jackson death certificate.jpg I think this is the definitive statement as to what his middle name is. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow that's nice and definitive ..shall we fix it?Moxy (talk) 05:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Good question..... SJ (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok i think we got it right now...Its pretty clear that "Joe" is the short form he used, but not the proper name. Looking into this in the USA looks like only 4 documents have to have proper "fully" middle names - Birth certificate - Passport - marriage certificate and death certificate. According to what i found Americans can use short form middle names on tax forums and drivers licences (this includes "Legal" stage names)....Moxy (talk) 23:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's real middle name is Joe? Joseph is fake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.80.197 (talk) 19:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Additional Information regarding Jacksons' skin disease

The time of Jacksons’ diagnoses of Vitiligo and Lupus,> his skin became blotchy. Once his skin was going through pigment differentiation,> Jackson wanted to make it all one colour. Therefore, from confirmation from the> autopsy, skin bleaching creams were used but solely for the purpose of covering> his blotchy skin due to his skin disease, rather than for outrageous rumors> about him having the desire to be Caucasian. Jackson has told the truth from his> interview with Oprah Winfrey in1993, where he openly admitted his skin diagnoses.> Sadly, people refused to believe him even having him publicly admit his disease> and still continued to not believe him until his death and his autopsy results — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guirguc14 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

The problem with this is that it's much easier and less intrusive to cover the white blotches with something darker than the other way around. If his skin was indeed blotchy, it was still his choice to go with the lighter skin than the darker skin.

Also, Oprah Winfrey could well have asked him why he didn't just cover up the lighter skin with darker makeup, but talk show hosts (even as powerful as Oprah) don't get superstar guests like Michael Jackson unless they agree to cooperate with his image makers. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 21:30, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

In response to Guirguc14, Michael Jackson's autopsy report confirmed he had vitiligo (undisputable) and he used bleaching agents hydroquinone and benoquin (having possession of some 20 or so tubes of each agent). Benoquin is an extremely powerful bleaching agent. This chemical can CAUSE vitiligo in individuals that DO NOT possess the disease and it can also TREAT the disease in individuals that have it naturally. By an individual using the cream with an absence of the disease, it can cause 'chemically induced vitiligo' as a side-effect. The chemical does not uniformly strip pigment from the skin and creates 'splotches'. Some people have a problem with accepting Michael's claim that it was a natural occurence rather than something self-inflicted. I am a fan of him, but I am not willing to accept such a claim given the other measures he has taken to change his appearance. He did have vitiligo, albeit it may have been a side effect of cosmetic treatment. Michael was right to say that people are ignorant of the disease, but I believe he caused the disease cosmetically in himself. By discussing it, he gave awareness of the disease. See all sides to the story, however, we will never know the truth. It is all guess-work now that he has gone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greyrabbit12 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Grammy Awards

Michael Jackson has won 18 Grammy Awards

See http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/michael-jackson-awards

Lead tweak

The start of the second paragraph of the lead states 'In the early 1980s, Jackson became a dominant figure in popular music.' In my view this should instead be changed to 'In the early 1980s, Jackson became the dominant figure in popular music.'. The latter is undoubtedly the case and is more than supported by the contents of the article. Why should there be equivocation?Rangoon11 (talk) 21:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

King of Pop an "officially authorized" name, allowed by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#alias

Some more info on "King of Pop" added back to the alias field:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#alias "Also for the solo artist's legal name(s), or other officially authorized names that differ from their birth name." This extends beyond legal aliases e.g. Madonna_(entertainer) has the following in alias: Madonna Ciccone, Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone (confirmation name), Esther (Kabbalah name)

As may have been discussed before, "King of Pop" was officially authorized for use numerous times by Michael Jackson in his promotional material. There are many examples, for instance in the O2 announcement of the This Is It concerts "King of Pop" appears on the podium and the electronic banner at the top of the stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qs36fLnSds So it is not merely nick name as it was authorized by MJ for many official uses for concert tours, t.v. specials, etc.

-Verapar (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Birth name & currently known and accepted Identity_documents_in_the_United_States

The birth name was first corrected to Michael Joe Jackson in January 2011 citing his FBI file (which is a good reliable source on this issue) but the file was later moved to another url. The citation now been restored (until "Moxy" repreatedly removed it, along with the other changes I did that are unrelated to this issue) using the new urls. As noted in the citation (currently beside the birth name) we have from: http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF, (from: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)

• p.8: "Michael Joe Jackson" is on his driver's license (the primary form of Identity_documents_in_the_United_States) & p.6: license application (which he signed and provided documents to prove his "true full name", see http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm ).
• p:45 has the quote "Michael Jackson whose true name is Michael Joe Jackson"
• "Michael Joe Jackson" also appears on many pages throughout his FBI file
• And court documents prepared by prosecutors (and the 2005 verdict) must use the legal name shown on government issued i.d. Prosecutors had to check his legal name when he was arrested & Jackson had to surrender his passport in 2003. See talk page archives or other articles on Jackson citing the these documents for examples.

• Thus, his legal name "Michael Joe Jackson" is his birth name based on currently known and accepted Identity_documents_in_the_United_States.

-Verapar (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Only a birth, death, Passport or marriage certificate are the main valid sources - and all 3 say Michael Joseph Jackson (not sure about Passport never seen it). As for drivers license, social security card and court documents a short form of names can be used (as this is what i have done). In interviews with him they make sure they used his full name as at Ebony Dec 2007 - Ebony May 1984

And as side note he named 2 of his kids with the same name [6].............Moxy (talk) 14:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

No, you are mistaken. See the article Identity_documents_in_the_United_States and the fbi file, which also clearly states is true name & also prosecution documents. Those interviews are using his most commonly known name. Unless you have a birth certificate showing his name, his driver's license and the statement by the FBI supercede the death certificate. You did not read any of my points above.

Verapar (talk) 14:43, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Again as stated above FBI files and a driver's license are able to use short forms for names . Pls see His SIGNATURE on kids Birth certificate - kids birth certificate - death certificate.Moxy (talk) 14:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• Law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and the L.A. prosecutors are reliable sources as to his legal name (definitely more so than http://www.in.com. As stated, the L.A. prosecution had access to his license and passport, both clearly identified forms of i.d. the are have precedence over his death certificate as sources of his legal name. As stated, the FBI clearly stated: "Michael Jackson whose true name is Michael Joe Jackson" (NEVER did they say "short form"). His signature on the birth records of the kids is NOT a source of i.d. You are using questionable sources and your personal opinions about the FBI & driver's licenses.
• Here is a sample prosecution document: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/042805minuteorder.pdf
• Main website for the court documents: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/

-Verapar (talk) 15:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So a source by MJ himself is not a valid source?? Come on man!Moxy (talk) 16:07, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

MJ signed the license application on p.6 which where he wrote that his name was "Michael Joe Jackson" (as stated above) & provided the necessary documentation to prove it (see DMV links below).

moxy is 3/4 right! birth, marrige and death will have full proper names. Passports do not requier full names. Its abvious that Joe is short for Joseph as proven by the documants provided by moxy. Looks like MJ even writes hes name with Joseph on the birth of his kids. Would he do this if his name was just Joe?216.106.109.188 (talk) 15:48, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

* The California Department of Motor vehicles http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm clearly says the name on his driver's license had to come from legal documents verifying "his birth date and legal presence" e.g. a birth certificate http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP. Otherwise you have to show legal documents showing that you legally changed your name if your true name is not the one on your BD/LP document http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#truename. There is no documentation to show that he legally changed his middle name from Joseph to Joe, the name confirmed by the BOTH the FBI and the L.A. prosecutors/police departments as his true name from his government i.d.

* moxy has provided NO documents that legally verify his birth name. All you and moxy have provided is your personal opinion that passports, driver's licenses, the FBI, LA prosecutors and police departments are unreliable sources of his legal name; despite all evidence to the contrary.

-Verapar (talk) 16:19, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok then can you explain y they use Joseph all over the place. Do you think all this documents are made up? Y in the hell would he sign his name Joseph? do you think he forgot his name was just Joe or is it more likely that Joe is short for Joseph. Do you not think he would have made them correct this documents if his name was just Joe? So basically your saying all the references above (that MJ looked at and subsequently singed) are wrong? As for driver's license only a middle entail is required. I take it you are ware that his fathers name is Joseph as with his children. Moxy (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

As stated, MJ clearly wrote "Joe" on his license application (and passport too), which must be reflected in his BD/LP documentation, and signed it. http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#truename clearly says "Your true full name appears on your BD/LP document.". The driver's license & passport are recognized forms of i.d. and it is clearly stated to applicants that you must use your legal name in these two documents. Your personal opinions & endless speculations are not reliable sources vs. the FBI, prosecutors, police, MJ himself, the DMV requirements and these primary forms of government i.d.

-Verapar (talk) 17:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So your saying you have no answer to y he singed his name Joseph or that the name is on all this documents? There are a multutude of books and documents that say Joseph - how can you simply dissmiss them all. What is more logical that he singed his right name or did it wrong. pls see his LAST WILL Moxy (talk) 17:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• As stated, Joe is confirmed as the middle name as his full true name in his driver's license (a primary form of government i.d.), is stated by the FBI as his "true name", prosecutors, police, MJ himself (in the signed license application) and the DMV requirements for the name on the driver's license. A will is NOT an acceptable form of i.d. for the DMV.
• Clearly many documents are not subject to rigorous checking & standards that are required for primary forms of i.d. e.g. a Driver's license, passport, etc. which all require that you provide proof of your full true name before they are issued and cannot be used as government i.d.
• You have stated false claims e.g. about the name requirements for passports & licenses, the equivalency of other documents to government issued i.d. Identity_documents_in_the_United_States, http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP etc. without any reliable sources and this is "illogical"; as is the refusal to have any acknowledgment of the sources above.

-Verapar (talk) 18:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)