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Transition of Caitlyn Jenner was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 18 August 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Caitlyn Jenner. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
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A fact from Caitlyn Jenner appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 June 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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I wonder if this article would be better served by being entitled for Bruce Jenner with a re-direct for Caitlyn Jenner, given that everything he/she has done to establish celebrity status was as Bruce (during his Olympics period). Caitlyn hasn't done anything worthy of a Wikipedia page, except to be Bruce Jenner coming out as a woman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nolefan32 (talk • contribs) 03:49, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The name of the article must correspond with the name the subject uses in their life or changes it to permanently. Hence why the article was never William Jenner. Trillfendi (talk) 17:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is kinda funny how people get upset over calling Jenner by his real name, but then they hide behind and IP address....lol Suden13 (talk) 08:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Asexual
Regarding this and this? To repeat, the first source states, " 'Let’s go with ‘asexual’ for now,' he said." Second source states "ultimately identifying as asexual." We can leave out the asexual piece and remove Jenner from the asexual category, since it's doubtful that Jenner identifies as asexual in the technical/sexual orientation sense, but "asexual for now" was stated at the time. Åüñîçńøł, regarding the asexual bit that I reverted you on, what are you talking about? The two sources are very clear. Jenner stated "asexual for now." We go by what the sources state, not our own interpretations. And beyond what the sources state, this came out of Jenner's mouth. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just reverted this per my edit summary: It is already clear that Jenner is a trans woman. No need to state "identifies as a transgender woman." And the text wasn't an update on Jenner's sexual identity, which is not the same thing as one's gender identity. If we are to remove the "asexual for now" aspect from the article and Jenner from the asexual category, we should make a solid case for it and have WP:Consensus for it. Above, I stated, "We can leave out the asexual piece and remove Jenner from the asexual category, since it's doubtful that Jenner identifies as asexual in the technical/sexual orientation sense." By this, I mean that asexuality is very much misunderstood, often being conflated with celibacy or sexual abstinence (as made clear in the Asexuality article), and this is especially the case the further we go back in years. But if we remove the "asexual for now" aspect based on this, it would be removing it based on personal interpretation rather than what a reliable source or Jenner states. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 19:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(This discussion is regarding content in the last paragraph in the article’s section “Coming out as a transgender woman”.)
The article (as it stands now) is incorrectly ascribing to Jenner something Jenner does not say: This article says that Jenner “would identify as asexual for the time being”. Not true. Nowhere does Jenner say that. “Identify” is the wrong word there. Jenner considers that (in her words) “sexuality is who you are personally attracted to. But gender identity is who you are as a person”. Other people may identify in terms of sexuality (or any other category), but Jenner repeatedly says that she identifies as a trans woman, and never says what this article is claiming about asexuality. Self-identification is important and should be accepted (as is stated in a box at the top of this talk page.) The People Magazine article points out that Jenner acknowledges “that it can be confusing for some people to understand that sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing.” Jenner also says that there is a “misperception that people transition because of their sexual desires.” When Wikipedia suggests that Jenner identifies as asexual, it’s wrong, it contributes to the confusion that Jenner refers to, and it is also what Wikipedia considers Original Research. There is a 2nd citation — both citations are based on the same thing — a more-than-5-year-old TV interview. Again Jenner never says in that interview that she “identifies as asexual”, but the unnamed author of the 2nd citation interprets Jenner’s comments and says that she was ultimately identifying as asexual. So a Wikipedia editor may insist that that allows Wikipedia to refer to her as identifying as asexual — in spite of her quoted self-expression. But it is contradicted in the original TV interview, in many other reliable sources, and in Jenner’s autobiography, which was recently removed as a source in this section. Removing more recent and up-to-date sources from this section, goes against Wikipedia’s Manual of Style that says that Wikipedia should give precedence to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources. (This is also repeated in a box at the top of this talk page.) More from the boxes at the top: This article is a biography of a living person, and it needs to be edited carefully, and needs to be accurate. Contentious material about a living person that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately from this article. The section needs to be corrected.Åüñîçńøł (talk) 17:32, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You may be right, but the cited article quotes Jenner as saying "“Let’s go with ‘asexual’ for now,”. What are we to make of that? Paul August☎23:42, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And you most certainly did not add any "recent and up-to-date sources" on Jenner's sexual identity. To repeat, the text you added wasn't an update on Jenner's sexual identity. You redundantly added "She identifies as a transgender woman." We already know that! Readers will already know that because the lead and "Coming out as a transgender woman section" are clear about that. The trans woman aspect is gender identity, not sexual identity. MOS:GENDERID is also about gender identity, not sexual identity. And to repeat something else, it is not uncommon for people to use "asexual" to mean "celibate" or "sexually abstinent," as made clear in this section of the Celibacy article. However Jenner meant "asexual" back then, we do not know. We can guess. But we don't have Jenner's word on it. What we do know is that "asexual for now" was stated. Should Jenner have used other words instead, given the "never been sexually attracted to men, but always to women" aspect? One can argue that, yes. But what was stated was stated. It came out of Jenner's mouth. There was no misquote. All that is left now is to form consensus on whether or not to remove any mention of the asexual bit. If it is removed, it will leave some readers assuming that Jenner identifies as a lesbian. The article might occasionally get added to the lesbian category, which would need to be removed each time per WP:BLPCAT. We go by what BLP subjects identify as. If there are more recent sources on this, and the asexual or lesbian aspect is therefore clear, then we can tweak the section and categories in that regard. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest an additional source be added to the lede
The lede mentions Jenner's racing career, but the source provided (NYT) does not. I suggest adding the relevant source from that section of the article, but it's been ages since I've edited and I don't feel confident to do so myself. If someone would like to do so that'd be great, and if not that's cool too. Throwaway85 (talk) 08:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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