Talk:Taylor Swift: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Joseph Prasad (talk | contribs)
6,572 edits
Line 128: Line 128:


::He should. Sandler is known for playing guitar. At least one film role highlighted his guitar playing. Look, you said she isn't seen playing piano or banjo, I showed you she is. You said she wasn't shown in videos playing piano, I showed you she is. Your arguments are not based on reality. Taylor Swift is a pianist as well as a banjo player and both instruments should be included in the infobox. Ukulele, too. Four instruments in the infobox is not a tragedy, it's not against policy, it's warranted and encyclopedic because it's true and verifiably so. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">[[User:Winkelvi|WV]]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">[[User_talk:Winkelvi|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Winkelvi|✓]]</span> 04:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
::He should. Sandler is known for playing guitar. At least one film role highlighted his guitar playing. Look, you said she isn't seen playing piano or banjo, I showed you she is. You said she wasn't shown in videos playing piano, I showed you she is. Your arguments are not based on reality. Taylor Swift is a pianist as well as a banjo player and both instruments should be included in the infobox. Ukulele, too. Four instruments in the infobox is not a tragedy, it's not against policy, it's warranted and encyclopedic because it's true and verifiably so. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">[[User:Winkelvi|WV]]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">[[User_talk:Winkelvi|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Winkelvi|✓]]</span> 04:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

:::But again, it is what the subject is known for. Taylor is not known for banjo, and piano. Ukulele especially. And I said "music videos", not one-off or a few off live performances. And that's five as vocals is considered an instrument. I said she isn't seen if you just search her live with no other instrument included, which is a good indicator for what someone is known for. -- [[User:Joseph Prasad|Joseph Prasad]] ([[User talk:Joseph Prasad|talk]]) 04:46, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Revision as of 04:46, 28 January 2016

Former good articleTaylor Swift was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 25, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
July 18, 2012Good article nomineeListed
August 16, 2014Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 7, 2015Good article reassessmentDelisted
December 12, 2015Guild of Copy EditorsCopyedited
Current status: Delisted good article

Impact and recognition section

I do not think this section is without merit and should not be summarily deleted, as User:Popeye191 has done. It needs some editing, though much of the content is well-sourced and relevant.

Swift's work has received praise from veteran artists. Bill Withers says: "She's clever. Being a songwriter, I can appreciate her wit. She deserves all of her success."[1] Neil Young describes her as "a great writer": "I like Taylor Swift. I like listening to her. I kind of like watching her respond to all the attacks. I like the ways she's defining herself. So I keep my eye on it."[2][3] Stephen Stills defended Swift's confessional writing style: "That's what you do as a songwriter ... Wear your heart on your sleeve, then just write about it. Fuck 'em. If I was young, I would be one of Taylor Swift's conquests."[4][5][6]

James Taylor, who performed with Swift on two occasions, said that "we just hit it off. I loved her songs, and her presence on stage was so great."[7][8] Elvis Costello remarked: "I think she is quite interesting ... You can see a degree of self-possession there, and I'm intrigued by that."[9] Judy Collins points to Swift as an example of a current star who is continuing on the lineage of being an independent-minded artist.[10] Steve Earle said of 1989: "It's a really good record! She's a real songwriter."[11]

In regard to Swift, Kristofferson said that "she blows me away. It's amazing to me that someone so young is writing such great songs. She's got a great career ahead of her."[12][13] Janis Ian notes that Swift "changed the face of music, songwriting and guitar playing for girls ... There is an authenticity there."[14] Nicks believes Swift writes "songs that make the whole world sing, like Neil Diamond or Elton John."[15] She remarked that the younger singer's "Today Was A Fairytale" has "stayed in my heart forever. And it just reminds me of me in a lot of ways."[16] Lindsey Buckingham named Swift as a current artist who may have the staying power of Fleetwood Mac: "I actually like Taylor Swift. I admire what she's been able to do."[17]

Jon Bon Jovi describes her as "the real deal in every way, shape and form. She's a writer, she's a singer, she's a beautiful girl ... Like, she's going to be around."[18] Parton is "extremely impressed with her, especially with her songwriting ... I'm real impressed with the depth of her sometimes. She's got the qualities that could last a long time."[19][20] Etheridge remarks: "I love her soul, her spirit. I think she's going to surprise people and I think she's going to be around for a long time."[21][22]

Swift has also received songwriting praise from contemporaries. Mayer was a supporter of Swift's early career—the duo recorded a duet and performed in concert together on two occasions: "You could put her in a time machine in any era and she would have a hit record."[23] Ryan Adams described her as one of the "most fucking amazing writers I've ever seen. I've sat in this room with her before and heard a song she was constructing on the spot and it was unbelievable. It was pure alchemy."[24] Kathleen Hanna is "totally into Taylor Swift. I think she has super-clever lyrics, and I love that she writes her own music."[25] Shirley Manson remarked that Swift is "exceedingly talented at songwriting ... She drew her own door and walked right through it. We should applaud her balls for bucking the system. That's what artists are supposed to do."[26] Lena Dunham, the creator and star of HBO's television series Girls, has described Swift as her "artistic kindred spirit."[27] She also received praise from Drake,[28] Tegan and Sara,[29][30] Grimes,[31] Kesha,[32] Katy Perry,[33] Kelly Clarkson[34] and Lady Gaga.[35]

References

  1. ^ Greene, Andy (March 27, 2015). "Page 2 of 10 Things We Learned Spending Two Days With Bill Withers". Rolling Stone. Retrieved April 11, 2015.
  2. ^ Gold, Adam (June 16, 2011). "Neil Young Talks About A Treasure, The International Harvesters, Taylor Swift and More". Nashvillescene.com. Retrieved May 29, 2012.
  3. ^ Stromblad, Cory (June 24, 2011). "Neil Young Gives Props to Taylor Swift". The Boot. Retrieved May 29, 2012.
  4. ^ "Crosby, Stills and Nash: There And Back Again | Page 2 of 2". American Songwriter. January 2, 2013. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  5. ^ "Stephen Stills: "I'm a little like Taylor Swift"". Uncut. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  6. ^ "Stephen Stills carries on". MSN. Archived from the original on July 7, 2014. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  7. ^ Cite error: The named reference autogenerated3 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  8. ^ Cite error: The named reference post-gazette1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  9. ^ "Elvis Costello Fan Forum • View topic – SPECTACLE APOLLO 2 debut!". Elviscostellofans.com. Retrieved December 29, 2013.
  10. ^ "Youngstown News, Judy Collins is still looking to the futureSFlb". Vindy.com. December 13, 2012. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  11. ^ "Steve Earle on hanging out with Levon Helm, learning to love Taylor Swift, and more". Chicago Reader.
  12. ^ Lewis, Randy (October 24, 2010). "Taylor Swift: the next chapter". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved May 29, 2012.
  13. ^ Katsilometes, John (May 20, 2012). "Live from Billboard Music Awards: Stevie Wonder closes with 'Superstition'; Adele wins 12 awards". Las Vegas Sun. Retrieved May 29, 2012.
  14. ^ "Janis Ian: Echoes of Endurance and Evolution". Musicconnection.com. February 7, 2013. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  15. ^ Cite error: The named reference nicks1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  16. ^ Makarechi, Kia (December 3, 2012). "Stevie Nicks on Fleetwood Mac's Reunion Tour, Rihanna, Kanye West & Her Early Years in Music". The Huffington Post.
  17. ^ "Fleetwood Mac's Lindsey Buckingham Speaks at USC, Confesses 'I Like Taylor Swift'". Billboard.
  18. ^ "CNN.com – Transcripts". CNN. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  19. ^ "News : CMT Insider Interview: Dolly Parton". CMT. March 20, 2009. Retrieved July 1, 2012.
  20. ^ "Dolly Parton – Parton Admires 'Smart, Beautiful, Incredible' Swift". Contactmusic.com. November 24, 2011. Retrieved May 29, 2012.
  21. ^ "taylor swift". The Melissa Etheridge Radio Show. Archived from the original on October 28, 2014. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  22. ^ Terez, Sarah (November 1, 2012). "Melissa Etheridge: "I Almost Didn't Put 'Come to My Window' on my album"". AfterEllen.com. Archived from the original on January 30, 2013. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  23. ^ "Taylor Swift Among Diverse Honorees at Songwriters Hall". Billboard. June 18, 2010. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  24. ^ Rob LeDonne (December 4, 2014). "Ryan Adams: Pure Alchemy". American Songwriter. ForASong Media, LLC. Retrieved January 4, 2015.
  25. ^ Sykes, Tom (March 13, 2013). "Punk Rock-Feminist Pioneer Kathleen Hanna on Her SXSW Doc & More". The Daily Beast. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  26. ^ Shirley Manson (February 2010). "Shirley Manson defends Taylor Swift". Nova FM. dmgRadio Australia. Retrieved January 4, 2015.
  27. ^ "Lena Dunham – Guest DJ Project on KCRW". Kcrw.com. Retrieved August 11, 2012.
  28. ^ Vena, Jocelyn (February 4, 2010). "Drake Says He'd Be 'Down' For A Taylor Swift Collaboration – Music, Celebrity, Artist News". MTV. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  29. ^ Appleford, Steve (2013-08-23). "Tegan and Sara Talk About Taylor Swift and Big 'Closer' Cameo". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 2015-11-10.
  30. ^ "New.Music.Live. - Tegan and Sara | New.Music.Live". Newmusiclive.ca. March 25, 2013. Archived from the original on October 28, 2014. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  31. ^ "Grimes". Everguide. November 29, 2012. Archived from the original on October 28, 2014. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  32. ^ Vena, Jocelyn (December 14, 2009). "Ke$ha Would 'Totally' Collaborate With Taylor Swift – Music, Celebrity, Artist News". MTV. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  33. ^ "Katy Perry Q&A: Billboard's Woman of the Year 2012". Billboard. Retrieved March 29, 2013.
  34. ^ Miller, Winter (June 12, 2009). "An 'Idol' Trains Her Ear Across Pop Soundscape". The New York Times. Retrieved August 7, 2012.
  35. ^ "Lady Gaga loves Taylor Swift, too!". Sugarscape. Retrieved August 7, 2012.

Bangabandhu (talk) 18:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do wonder how notable - to pick a random example - Elvis Costello saying she is "quite interesting" (in a quote on a fan forum!) is. Or someone saying that they would, if actually asked, collaborate with her is. I'd do it, if asked, so should I be included? Lovingboth (talk) 21:51, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well if your name is Miley Cyrus or someone with a similar level of recognition, I'd say its at least worth considering. Bangabandhu (talk) 06:50, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

EnderAtreides117 (talk) 00:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While it can useful to provide examples of other musicians recognizing her music talents, it is completely unnecessary to have such a large section just listing off praise from heaps of people. Nor does this paragraph contain any information on her impact on the music industry, unless you consider being like by people as an impact. THis is why the above section should be permanently removed and perhaps replaced with an impact and legacy section like many other artists.
I agree that the length is excessive and the content is highly repetitive and redundant. It also reads like a puff piece. Don't any of those artists have anything besides adoration for Swift, like a suggestion about how she could improve? My concern is with summarily excising such a large portion of the text - especially when many of the citations could speak to Swift's impact and legacy. Bangabandhu (talk) 06:50, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Then include maybe a couple noteworthy examples and scrub the rest.--EnderAtreides117 (talk) 11:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. There's a paragraph, or at the most two, of actually notable material there. Her legacy will only be known when she's dead or retired. Lovingboth (talk) 17:21, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Its nicely referenced, too. Bangabandhu (talk) 03:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I actually don't have a strong opinion either way. I'm the one who compiled all the quotes together in the section. However, when the article lost Good Article status, this section was cited as one of the reasons why.Popeye191 (talk) 11:57, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't get the issue with this section either. To me, it's no different really than The_Beatles#Legacy. Maybe it could be trimmed, but wholesale deletion doesn't seem appropriate. Calidum T|C 05:51, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • EnderAtreides117 said it all; the section was undue weight with basically just a bunch of "Taylor is awesome!" comments. Unlike the Beatles' "Legacy" section, it didn't go into how she impacted the music industry or influenced other artists. One's legacy doesn't soley consist of being praised. Having a section in one's biography entirely dedicated to praise would be just as bad as one that purely focuses on negative criticism. Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:52, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with Snuggums. Undue weight filled with puffery/peacocky statements does not make for an accurate and balanced Legacy section. In fact, that's not a "Legacy" section at all. More like a "Positive praise only" section. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 21:03, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The section should not be blanked, it should be pruned; WP:PRESERVE. Weed out the fluff/trivial stuff (e.g., "we just hit it off...", "stayed in my heart forever..."). This section should also include what RSs have written about the significance of Swift's commercial success today and her widely-covered music streaming decisions, as well as any honors she's received, as that is all part of "impact and recognition". Lapadite (talk) 08:31, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

Remove it; it's indecent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pumpyouup (talk • contribs) 15:31, 2016 January 8 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Taylor Swift. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 06:49, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Piano added as instrument

Most of her songs like "All To Well", "Back To December" and her new version of "Love Story" have piano backing. She plays the instrument often enough for it to be noted. Especially during live performances. Finaltwo (talk) 14:31, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Finaltwo and Riot kiddo, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#instrument, which states: "Instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to only those that the artist is primarily known for using. The instruments infobox parameter is not intended as a WP:COATRACK for every instrument the subject has ever used." Hunter Hayes can play 30+ instruments, and we only list "Vocals, guitar, and piano", because that is what he is known for. Taylor is only known for guitar, and possibly banjo. I've never seen her play piano live, by searching "Taylor Swift live", you only get her with guitar, and rarely, banjo. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Joseph Prasad: Your first revert on the instruments was the addition of "Piano". Adding piano is hardly coatracking or a violation of the MOS for infoboxes on musical instruments. As far you saying you have never seen her play piano, take a look at this link. Now you cannot say you've never seen her play piano in a live venue. I can see why you might be skeptical about the other instruments, but not so fast: Take a look at this link. Now you cannot say you've never seen her play banjo in a live venue and that she is not known for playing it. Next, take a look at this link. Now you cannot say you have never seen or heard of her playing ukulele in a live venue. Keyboards? That's taking it a bit far and trying to find anything source-wise that indicates Swift is considered a keyboardist is pretty much impossible. I think leaving out keyboards is appropriate. The others? I believe they have a place in the infobox. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 02:46, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Winkelvi, I said I looked up "Taylor Swift live", which is a good indicator of what's she's known for. We don't just place every instrument artists have ever used in the infobox. Like I said with Hunter Hayes, he can play 30 instruments. Are we going to place 30 instruments in the infobox? No. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 03:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No one is saying she can play 30 instruments. No one is putting 30 instruments in her article's infobox. Three is not thirty. There is no harm in putting three instruments she is known for playing in concert in the infobox. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 03:05, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Does it anywhere state her as a pianist, or any of these other terms, or is she ever featured prominently with these instruments, besides guitar, like in a music video? I don't think so. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 03:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think so: [1], [2], [3], [4]. There are many more. Would you like me to post them? -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 03:30, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Search "Taylor Swift Grammy Performance" she sing "All Too Well on a piano and on tour she sung "Wildest Dreams","Enchanted", And "Love Story" all on the Piano. She also played the piano in the film "The Giver". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Finaltwo (talk • contribs) 03:35, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I said, prominently, not just a couple of performances. She has to use them on a constant basis, or have used them a lot over time (for those with very long musical careers). It's supposed to be instruments someone outside of the fanbase (not a "Swiftie") would know and not have to look for. And okay, so in really only live performances? -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 03:37, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If she's playing them in concert (and there are plenty of videos showing as much), that's "prominently". If she's playing it on the Grammy's (which, she has), that's "prominently". Your qualifications listed above aren't valid and are your own opinion. In other words, you're wrong on this. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 03:45, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And isn't that your opinion? Exactly. I see Adam Sandler play guitar for his single, a cover of Neil Young's "Like a Hurricane" on Late Show with David Letterman. Does that mean he gets a guitar in the infobox? No. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 03:58, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
He should. Sandler is known for playing guitar. At least one film role highlighted his guitar playing. Look, you said she isn't seen playing piano or banjo, I showed you she is. You said she wasn't shown in videos playing piano, I showed you she is. Your arguments are not based on reality. Taylor Swift is a pianist as well as a banjo player and both instruments should be included in the infobox. Ukulele, too. Four instruments in the infobox is not a tragedy, it's not against policy, it's warranted and encyclopedic because it's true and verifiably so. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 04:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But again, it is what the subject is known for. Taylor is not known for banjo, and piano. Ukulele especially. And I said "music videos", not one-off or a few off live performances. And that's five as vocals is considered an instrument. I said she isn't seen if you just search her live with no other instrument included, which is a good indicator for what someone is known for. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:46, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Taylor_Swift&oldid=702058260"