:::::::::::Anyways, Midday has already explained the relevance of [[WP:CATEGRS]], "ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not". [[User:AcidSnow|AcidSnow]] ([[User talk:AcidSnow#top|talk]]) 00:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::Anyways, Midday has already explained the relevance of [[WP:CATEGRS]], "ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not". [[User:AcidSnow|AcidSnow]] ([[User talk:AcidSnow#top|talk]]) 00:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::That policy you're quoting is about use of Wikipedia's [[Help:Category|category system]]. I'm not suggesting putting the article in a category. The word "categorised" as I used it was referring to where the Somali pupils are listed in the National Pupil Database, as reported by Demie. I can't do much about that - it's up to whoever put the Somali speakers in that category when the National Pupil Database was constructed. [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 00:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::That policy you're quoting is about use of Wikipedia's [[Help:Category|category system]]. I'm not suggesting putting the article in a category. The word "categorised" as I used it was referring to where the Somali pupils are listed in the National Pupil Database, as reported by Demie. I can't do much about that - it's up to whoever put the Somali speakers in that category when the National Pupil Database was constructed. [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 00:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::That said, if it helps I could remove the bit about "This compares to 58 per cent of all Black African pupils" from my suggested addition to the article? [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 00:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
==Anti-balaka==
==Anti-balaka==
Revision as of 00:53, 7 February 2015
This is AcidSnow's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.
The Rendille speak a Somaloid language, while the Gabra, Sakuye and Gareeh have abandoned their original “Somaloid” language for Borana [104, 105]. There is also an overlap of clan names, rituals and beliefs among these historically “Somaloid” populations and a third set of populations speaking various Somali dialects[104, 105]. The putative center of origin of the eastern Cushitic speakers (including the eastern highland Cushitic speakers that are mostly found in Ethiopia) is in southern Ethiopia [106].
Also, see their haplogroup frequencies.. They are similar to Somalis, mainly E1b1b and T1(K2). Wadaad (talk) 20:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking a similar language does not mean both groups are necessarily genetic. Although both groups have similar levels of T (I am assuming that this group is using "K2" as its name) the same can't be said about E1b1b1 let alone their mtdna. This was previously discussed on your talk page as well which I am sure you are well aware of. AcidSnow (talk) 21:16, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In order to be featured on the related tab, ethnic groups do not have to be exact copies of each other. They just have to show strong affinities (genetic or linguistic). The Rendille are both genetically as well as linguistically related to Somalis, even more so than the Amhara who are already listed. Lastly, I believe the reason why you are so aggressively against the listing of the Rendille on the Somali page is mainly because of their more 'African' culture. You clearly have a bias and need to just accept science and move on.Wadaad (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
How on earth did you come to such a personal attack? AcidSnow (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ok, now I see what the crap was. AcidSnow (talk) 20:02, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Request for mediation rejected
The request for formal mediation concerning Anti-Hinduism, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
In this book it states that "Mogadishu was reorganized to house more than 50,000 newly arrived Italians" but than goes on to say that "Mogadishu had a population of about 30,000 Somalis and 20,000 Italians". I am not exactly sure which number is right. As of now, I believe that 50,000 Italians did arrive to Mogadishu, but only 20,000 stayed and the 30,000 went to other cites. Why do these number very so much? There's a lot of info on the Italians in Eritrea and constancy in the numbers of how many that lived there. But for Somalia, there prescence was documrented just no constancy in how many were there.
There are also 4,000 Italian immigrants according to Ethnologue currently living in Somalia,[1] but just before that it states that "all of the people from India and Italy have left".
Also, do you know where I can view this book (Tripodi, Paolo, "The Colonial Legacy in Somalia")? AcidSnow (talk) 19:46, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The point of arrival is not necessarily the same as the place of settlement. The Villaggio Duca degli Abruzzi was another place that many of the Italian settlers later moved to, as was Genale. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:49, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I did some more searching using specific terms and I have found some more numbers regarding these figure. Anyways, do you know how I can view the book? AcidSnow (talk) 16:20, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know where you can view the book. At any rate, Donati doesn't mention "meticci" nor do Poddar et al. discuss Mussolini's law vis-a-vis Italian Somaliland [2]. Italian also was not the main language used in higher education during the Somali Democratic Republic. In fact, to ensure and safeguard the primacy of the Somali language, the Supreme Revolutionary Council during its tenure officially prohibited the borrowing and usage of Italian and English terms. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:11, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Donati does mention how they were called "meticci" (see here) including how they were able to obtain Italian citizenship. As for "Poddar et al", who is that? If your referring to Michael B. Lentakis, he does mention it in that book because its the wrong link (my bad); his book on "Ethiopia: A View from Within" is the one I was referring to (see here). Other than how I gave you a wrong link I dont see why you removed the whole thing. AcidSnow (talk) 17:36, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I did see Donati; it doesn't mention "meticci" nor does the closed link above. The other link also pointed to the wrong book. At any rate, the law that Lentakis alludes to pertains to Ethiopia, not Italian Somaliland or Eritrea. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:59, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late replay, Middayexpress. I have been quiet busy lately. Anyways, what exactly do you see for the Donati link since I have highlighted part of the sentence? If your unable to view the link, then read this; "meticcis" are clearly defined as people of Italian and Somali decent. As for the law, its true that Lentakis does mention Ethiopia, but why would he start discussing how it would effect the Italians in Somalia and Eritrea if it would not? In Roy Patemans Eritrea: Even the Stones are Burning, he clearly states that it was also implemented in Somaliland and Eritrea. AcidSnow (talk) 21:27, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No prob. "Meticci" refers to mixed individuals in general. Please see page 323 here for the official system used in Italian Somaliland. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:01, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly am I post to see? Most of the document discuss Somali Bantus and only mentions the Italians a few times. My bad on the "clearly defined", I meant that people of Somali and Italian decent were called "meticci". There's also a Somali word these which is "missoni" (or something like that), but I don't have the link at the moment to give. Anyways, you did not give a response to the other part of my previous reply. AcidSnow (talk) 19:28, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I did reply to that as well. "Meticci" refers to mixed individuals in general, not just those of Somali and Italian ancestry. It is the Italian equivalent of the French "métis" (see métis). For the rest, please see the very bottom of the aforementioned page for the system used in Italian Somaliland. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:22, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
""Meticci" refers to...", yes I know now. I have already corrected myself. As for the page your previously mentioned, I repeat its all about Bantus. Is there something wrong with the sources I have provided? AcidSnow (talk) 21:58, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there is a problem. Since "meticci" refers to mixed individuals in general, there's no point in suggesting that it just referred to those of Somali and Italian ancestry. Also note that the bill Mussolini passed actually parallels the law that the Somali Republic's civilian government itself adopted upon independence ("any woman citizen who marries an alien loses her Somali citizenship if, by her marriage, she acquires her husband's citizenship"; see Paolo Contini (1969) [3]). As for the link, the page is not all about Bantus; see the footnote there on the official system in Italian Somaliland. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:40, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And another thing, Rome is not Mogadishu's sister city (the link alludes to a novel/fiction). Almaty/Alma-Ata and Istanbul are its actual sister cities. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There likewise doesn't appear to be any figure indicated for the number of Dervish troops [4]. Middayexpress (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"just referred to ...", yes I believe we have already established that. I have provided you with other links that dont suggest it is an exclusive term. There's even "misioni" in Somali which exclusively refers to these types of people, though I dont remember were I found it. "the bill Mussolini passed....", so why can't it be included in the article? As for your page 323 in the link you gave me, it is all about Bantus. For the footnote, please see bellow:
"1 Rachel Swarns, "Africa's Lost Tribe Discovers American Way," New York Times (10 March 2003).
2 No reliable census figures exist on Somalia; population estimates by region and by clan and ethnic group are even more unreliable and subject to gross exaggeration for political purposes. The five percent figure suggested here is not derived from a census, but is only a "best guess" approximation based on the author's years of fieldwork in Somalia and the opinions of other long-time observers. If Somalia's total population is somewhere near seven million people - again a consensus figure accepted in most publications - then the 5% estimate offered here would amount to a total Bantu population of about 350,000. Given the concentrations of Bantu along the relatively densely populated Jubba and Shabelle river valleys, and the large Bantu populations which have arrived in Mogadishu and Kismayo as internally displaced persons, these figures seem reasonable, but should taken only for what they are - a best guess. Though demographics have obviously changed since the colonial era, a colonial census of Italian Somalia (which would obviously not have included the population of British Somaliland) in 1935 concluded that 6.2% of the population was "Negroid groups" a figure which is not far off the estimate given above. See Istitutocentrale di sta- tistica, VII censimento générale délia populazione V (Rome, 1935)"
I dont see any mention of a system. AcidSnow (talk) 17:06, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"These types of people...". lol At any rate, there is no dedicated Somali word for "Somali-Italian" mixes. What I can tell you is that the Somali parent in such unions was very rarely from a noble clan because marriage is a very involved process among the upper caste groups wherein the entire extended family is involved. For the demographic system in use in Italian Somaliland, see the phrase above that begins "though demographics". Middayexpress (talk) 14:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As for the Dervish Army, I have no Idea what happened to my link. I found it using my phone (forr some reason I am able to view more pages then one can using a computer), but when I linked it to my computer I became unable to view it. Here's a link for 15,000 in 1902 (page: 113) and 20,000 in 1903 (page: 127). As for the twin cities, my bad once again. AcidSnow (talk) 17:06, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The first link says nothing about 15,000 troops in 1902 [5]. For its part, the second link says that "in 1903-04, one of the encounters against the Mullah was said to have consisted of 10,000 British troops accompanied by 15,000 allied Ethiopian troops, and that the Dervish force was 20,000 men, with 8,000 of them cavalry" [6]. That's 25,000 British/Ethiopian troops vs. 20,000 Dervish troops, quite different from what you wrote. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"quite different from what you wrote...", not at all since my refs do support what I have said.
This is about our other discussion which never ended: "the phrase above that begins "though demographics"", are you messing with me?!?!?! It clearly states "Negroid groups" which is a reference to Bantus -_-! As for the "dedicated Somali word", you better hope I dont find that link again because I would love to prove you wrong as of now. AcidSnow (talk) 18:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Calm down. lol If only 6% of the population in Italian Somaliland consisted of "Negroid groups" according to the colonial authorities, it obviously follows that the remaining 94% consisted of "non-Negroid groups". That is the territorial system I was referring to. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I see the 15,000 soldier figure for 1902, but the link was incorrect [7]. The passage in full reads: "By the time our second expedition was launched in June 1902, his following was estimated at 15,000, of whom 12,000 were said to be mounted and 1500 armed with rifles. Against this, our Expeditionary Force consisted of some 2000 rifles, partly King's African Rifles, but principally locally-enlisted and locally-trained Somalis." Again, quite a different context here as well since it's not so much alluding to the Dervishes vs. the British, but rather the Dervishes vs. Somali colonial troops. Middayexpress (talk) 16:31, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What? All I said was how big his army was...... AcidSnow (talk) 21:01, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Anyways, Middayexpress, what's wrong with adding the discriminatory laws that had no affect on the Italians and Somalis and the mixed Italian Somalis?
I have found many books that stated that there was no racism towards the Somalis from the Italians despite Mussolinis attempt. AcidSnow (talk) 19:34, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's rather complex. Mussolini actually didn't have a single vision; he was idealogically amorphous. For instance, he once bragged that he would unite the Somali territories, including the occupied areas. So he regarded himself as a savior of sorts. Middayexpress (talk) 14:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see. If we do add it then it well state, "despite the laws" instead of Mussolini. AcidSnow (talk) 14:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dervish State
Should there be a page about the Somali Resistance Movement or should all of this be included in the Somaliland Campaign? The page mostly discuses things that involved Britain and not Italy. AcidSnow (talk) 21:24, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi AcidSnow. The Somaliland Campaign is on the Dervish State's resistance movement in British Somaliland. There wasn't anything comparable to that two decade-long struggle in Italian Somaliland because the ruling Majeerteen Sultanate and Sultanate of Hobyo in the northeast were assured non-interference through treaties they had signed with Italy. Direct rule thus only occurred in central and southern Somalia, where there were no similar local polities in place. By consequence, the central/southern resistance struggle is largely covered on the Sheikh Hassan Barsane page. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:32, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not necessarily true since Hassans forces routinely fought the Italians in Italian Somaliland and so had other Somali resistance groups; which included the Sultans when they were told to step down. As for the Sheikh Hassan Barsane page, its poorly sourced (one source) and badly laid out. I will quickly fix the lay out shortly.
EDIT: It does not appear to be a lot of info on this man (there's even less that I can access). AcidSnow (talk) 23:01, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Direct rule indeed only occurred in the south, where there were no comparable sultanates in place ("Italian rule was direct except in the northern protectorates of Italian Somaliland, where treaties had been signed with the sultans: in the southern part the clans were forcibly subdued and colonized" [8]). Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:40, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's right, these were not all under one movement, such as Dervish in the north, but they all had the same goal. Should we make a single article covering all of these and if there are major ones they will also obtain their own article? AcidSnow (talk) 18:27, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Majeerteen Sultanate's and Sultanate of Hobyo's colonial relations are already discussed on their respective pages. The southern struggle is covered on Sheikh Barsane's page. Middayexpress (talk) 15:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
sigh*, fine. I will wait to see if I can find enough info for each of them to connect them to one article. AcidSnow (talk) 15:59, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No need. They are already covered, as I wrote. Middayexpress (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
They barley do Middayexpress, hence why I stated that I would expanded them. AcidSnow (talk) 20:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Trust Territory, etc.
Hi AcidSnow. "Mongobay" is a personal website, not a reliable source. Both Somalis and Italians were also allowed to establish parties under the British military administration. The largest such party was obviously the SYL, not the HDM. The election database also doesn't claim that the HDM was the largest [9]; so insinuating that it was is undue and misleading. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Middayexpress. I never said that, throughout the paragraph I am talking about Italian supported parties not parties in general. You realize that I can read, right? As for "Mongobay", all the info they have is from the "Library of Congress", but I am unable to use them because they dont have permanent links. I will go and try to find a new link now. AcidSnow (talk) 15:30, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
SYL and HDM were actually both nationalist; especially the former. Middayexpress (talk) 15:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The HDM was not originally nationalistic like the SYL was. They were originally Pro-Italian rule, but would later change that to another 30 years of Italian rule; which is completely different from the SYL that wanted 0 more years. AcidSnow (talk) 15:57, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The HDM had a primarily Rahanweyn/Digil and Mirifle. It wasn't pro-Italian, though it did receive some Italian funding. The party actually in most points agreed with the SYL's platform, and became the opposition from the right [10]. Middayexpress (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
List
Hi AcidSnow. The RfC finally expired, and an administrator erroneously closed it in favor of the page move when there was clearly no consensus for it (five votes for the proposal vs. five votes against it). Despite this, one of the accounts that supported the move has attempted to edit the list and here as well in that direction. I've left a detailed explanation of the situation here. Your input there would be appreciated. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've started a formal move review of the RfC. Your input there would be appreciated. Whatever the outcome, I'll start drafting a proposal for a long overdue, dedicated WP:RACES policy. The new policy will gather in one place all of the various existing policy clauses on "race", as well as several new clauses. I'll link you first to the draft sub-page so that you may edit it yourself as needed before I formally submit it for evaluation. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 15:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please have a look at the page itself [11]? There's an anonymous ip that's attempting to capitalize on the bad close, even now that the RfC is officially under review. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 16:01, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry man, I have been really busy theses past few days. As for the ip, it is possible its the same guy from before. For your policy, there is not much I can add since I don't much on policy making, but judging how the discussion has gone so far it looks like its going in the right direction. Finally, as for the discussion on the list I have supported an "overturn". If you need anything dont hesitate to ask. AcidSnow (talk) 23:28, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No prob. The move review ended; the closing admin indicated that there was "no consensus", meaning that there is no consensus on the original discussion itself ("No consensus. Both sides have made valid points about both the closure and the arguments in the original discussion itself"). Per WP:MR, this verdict can mean either essentially the same thing as "endorse close" or instead "relist". In this case, it clearly means "relist" since the admin explicitly recommended that we start a centralised discussion covering all such articles in order to sensibly conclude this issue ("I would suggest a centralised discussion that covers all those articles would be the best route of coming to a sensible conclusion on this issue"). However, I believe adoption of the WP:RACE guideline should first be prioritized, as that will greatly facilitate that centralised discussion. Your input there would be appreciated. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the anonymous ip has again reverted on the page despite the no-consensus close. He has also in the process violated 3RR. Could you please have a look? Best, Middayexpress (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
List of cities in Somalia
Hi AcidSnow,
I saw your remark "wtf, most of these are not cities" on the revision history page of that article. I agree! Many are villages or not even populated places at all. I started a cleanup, maybe you could help. In fact, a large number of Somalia geography stubs contain serious errors and should be revised. I try to do so from time to time, but it's an uphill battle. Cheers, Loranchet (talk) 20:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Map
Hi AcidSnow. I would fix the map, but I unfortunately don't at the moment have the right graphics software. The "Berbers" therein are the non-Semitic speaking Afro-Asiatic groups inhabiting Northeast Africa. Some were thus also found in Egypt/Sudan i.e. the Beja. At any rate, File:Somalia map states regions districts.png also needs fixing after the recent military offensives. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have a couple of suggestions for fixing the map. One is to bring it into an AutoCad 360 desktop for collaboration. You can screen capture one or more Google Map images with the information from the Periplus such as place names, degrees, distances to the next place. To cover the Red Sea and Somalia you might end up sandboxing 30 places as 5 or 10 maps depending on how zoomed in you wanted to get. Then when you have them all clipped and cropped to suit you would import them into an Autocad drawing on an underlay layer or layers, probably one for each screen capture and draw over them. You have to do that because Wikipedia doesn't consider screen captures your work. Eventually you end up with an outline of the Red Sea and Gulf with the place names the degrees and distances captioned with the relevant lines from the Periplus. Then you can copy clip or crop from that whatever close ups you need and put them into a series of linked articles on each place using quotes from teh Periplus that locate it, put in various references to the place from other historic sources and invite whomever you want to collaboratively edit the map in the AutoCad 360 desktop.142.0.102.234 (talk) 00:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Deleting Christianity from Kenyan history
Hi, kenya wasn't called kenya in the 15th c. but the article mentions events there at this time. So why remove the history prior to the 15th c? There is obviously a lot of effort going into this whitewashing of Kenyan history. Sad but inevitable that Wikipedia is used in this way.86.168.238.55 (talk) 20:47, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What does Abyssinia have to do with Kenya? AcidSnow (talk) 03:07, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Middayexpress has agreed to me rolling back his edits, but there is still a section where you were the last editor. How do you feel about me removing it? Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 17:45, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Remove it I have no idea what he was talking about. It's best not to confuse others as well. Thanks! AcidSnow (talk) 19:22, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done and thanks. We also shouldn't be letting banned editors have a platform here. Dougweller (talk) 09:46, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Re:Macro-Somali languages
Why is Somali classified on Wikipedia as part of the Macro-Somali languages? Only one source that is listed says it is will other more will know sources put it in another branch from Rendille, Aweer, and Baiso. So why is it listed as that on the classification section. But the dialects of Somali go: Cushitic-> East-> Somali-> Dialect. Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AcidSnow (talk • contribs) 04:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi AcidSnow. That's a good question. The parameters here seem to be between "Omo-Tana", and "Macro-Somali" as a subgrouping of that. In truth, "Omo-Tana" itself is likely not a valid linguistic grouping since it is tied to the southern-origin theory for Proto-Cushitic. This hypothesis was popularized by the anthropologist Herbert Lewis and historian E.R. Turton during the late 1960s i.e. by non-linguists. It stipulates that Proto-Cushitic differentiated in the vicinity of the Omo Valley and Lake Tana ("Omo-Tana"), prior to the entry of Bantu and Nilo-Saharan speakers into the region. The various major Cushitic proto-languages would then later have expanded from there, with the East, Central and North Cushitic languages moving northward into the Horn, and the South Cushitic languages moving further south into the Great Lakes. Since around the late 1990s, this southern-origin hypothesis has fallen into disfavour, as it contradicts and/or overlooks most other lines of evidence. Among the latter are the fact that most Cushitic sub-branches are today concentrated in the Horn (East, Central and North Cushitic), not south of it (only South Cushitic is); the Cushitic language that has retained the most archaic features is Beja/North Cushitic, which is spoken much farther north in the Sudan-Egypt border area; the earliest pastoral rock art in eastern Africa is not found in the southern Ethiopia/northern Kenya area, but instead in the northern Somalia/Djibouti/Eritrea area (e.g. at Laas Gaal and Dhambalin, which contain the earliest examples of domesticated sheep, camels and even horses; camels and horses are in fact still mainly restricted to the Horn and points further north); oral traditions on the oldest population movements of Cushitic speakers mainly assert northward-to-southward migrations; the Modern South Arabian languages have a Cushitic substratum, which suggests that Cushitic speakers once inhabited the area alongside Semitic speakers. The linguist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi discusses some of the other reasons why the traditional northern point of origin of Cushitic is most probable (c.f. [12]). Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 13:29, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the response! Would the classifactions on wiki be changed or left alone? Also would the dialects of Somali which are Jiido, Dabarre, Garre and Tunni be considered their own language? I hard that in some cases they are but other times not. If it is then would its speakers be in their own Ethnic group?
Along with Maay, those tongues are actually all separate Cushitic languages. They have a different sentence structure and phonology from Somali. They also present similarities with Oromo that are not found in mainstream Somali. Chief among these is their lack of pharyngeal sounds, features which by contrast typify Somali. Abdullahi touches on this. This is why those languages are noted as separate Afro-Asiatic languages on their respective pages. The original speakers of those languages have largely been assimilated into the Rahanweyn (Digil and Mirifle) clan confederation, which is why those tongues are often referred to as Digil and Mirifle languages. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 13:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please also note that Benadiris are partially descended from recent Yemeni/Omani migrants. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 13:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But Garre, Jiddu, Maay, and Tunni are listed as languages/dialects under the category of "Somali". Are the speakers of these languages /dialects not ethnic Somalis? This kind of takes a big blow to how people say Somalis are untied linguistically etc. As god the Rendille people they are sometimes classifed as "Somaloid people" which makes no sense since their language is not closely related to Somali and are not even genticly related to Somalis. What do you make of this? Also what are the most related ethnic group to the Somalis, Midday? AcidSnow (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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established in 1991 by Mohamed Ibrahim Yassin and Mohammed Ibrahim Yassin Olad in Djibouti,<ref>[http://www.daallo.com/timeline.aspx DAALLO Airline - Timeline</ref><ref>[http://www.daallo.com/
Hi AcidSnow. Thanks for this. Per the agreement here, can you help me standardize this template for Somaliland, Jubaland, and Somalia's other constituent federal states as well? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:37, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I will do them soon. I believe we should make a spefic page discussing this like the Template:Infobox German state. As for the ethnicity I belive we should include Somali as what is done with the States of India. AcidSnow (talk) 21:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The infobox was patterned after those on the Indian federal states (e.g. Kerala), which use the generic Template:Infobox state. A dedicated template for the Somali federal states as on the German federal states could indeed also work, though. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
They look good so far; all that's left is Jubaland. This is somewhat offttopic but do you think federalism is working in Somalia? AcidSnow (talk) 22:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the federalism system is being finalized. Also, there's the Galmudug temp as well. Middayexpress (talk) 00:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would really like to hear your opinion on it though. If you don't want to I understand, but could you state that though? AcidSnow (talk) 00:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I sorta just did, no? Anyway, it seems a user prefers the country template for Somaliland, though it of course is legally an autonomous region of Somalia. It would appear that he wasn't aware of the agreement to standardize the state template aross all of the constituent federal states, so I linked him to it. If he still objects, we'll have to re-standardize the country template for Puntland so that all of the federal states use the same template again. We'll then have to code a standalone federal state template as on the German federal state temp. Middayexpress (talk) 16:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ethio-Somali
Do you understand what these charts are saying? I tried to interpret it one my own but I was unable to do to the many charts shown. Is in one chart it states that the Amhara, Tigray, and even the Oromo have far more Semitic admixture then the Somalis and that Somalis also have more Nilo admixture then the rest? In another it zstates that somalis still have more Nilo admixture despite living farther away from them then the rest. Then there's one I see as more realistic with all ethnic groups having closely the same amount of admixture; though it still has outrages amounts of Nilo in all groups. Also why does it have Ethiopian Somalis as a diffrent group and what on earth is Ethiopic?!?! AcidSnow (talk) 18:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, the researchers identified a new non-African autosomal DNA component. This non-African component is most common today among Afroasiatic-speaking populations in the Horn, especially ethnic Somalis. It represents the majority of ancestry in both the region's main Cushitic and Semitic speaking groups (Somali, Amhara, Oromo, Tigray, etc.). There's also some moderate secondary Sub-Saharan admixture. See Table 2 [14]; also have a look at Afroasiatic Urheimat. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 19:21, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is the new one the "Etho-Somali" or the "Ethiopic"? Which map is most actuate for genetic make up? Also forgive me for my grammar I was in a rush. AcidSnow (talk) 19:53, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As the abstract indicates, the Ethio-Somali component is a non-African component. This is based on actual divergence analysis, which indicates that the component is most closely related/least divergent from the Maghrebi non-African component (Table 4 [15]). It is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries at least 23,000 years ago. On this basis, the researchers suggest that the original Ethio-Somali carrying population(s) probably arrived in the pre-agricultural period from the Near East, having crossed over into the Nile Valley via the Sinai peninsula. The population then likely split into two branches, with one group heading westward toward the Maghreb and the other moving south into the Horn, introducing the Afroasiatic languages to both areas. The Ethio-Somali population would thereafter have encountered a local population carrying the Ethiopic African component. This Ethiopic population is today best represented by the Ari ironworkers, as can be seen on Table 2. By contrast, ethnic Somalis have the highest frequencies of the Ethio-Somali non-African component. Amhara, Tigray and other Habesha groups have around the same overall makeup as Somalis; however, they differ by having a bit less of the Ethio-Somali non-African component and in its place more of the Arabian non-African component. The presence of a Nilo-Saharan secondary African admixture element in turn serves as further confirmation that the Ethio-Somali non-African population indeed likely migrated down from in or near the Sinai. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 20:53, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It would appear that the Omotic are the Ethiopic since they have the highest percentage. This would also make since the Oromo had absorbed Omotic groups as well as other ethnic groups surrounding them which would explain their high percentage and why Somalis have the least. So map chart C-12 on page 4 is the most accurate representation of the region? If no, could you explain charts C-10-12? If yes, would this mean that Somalis are more Niloitic than Semitic? Thanks for clarifying so far.
Sorry, I just relooked at Table 2, does it not show Arabian and Eurasian admixture because its less than 5%? That's weird because other studies have stated that Somalis are 5% Arabian and 10% Eurasian. The percentage only add up to 86%, if we add the other study we get 101%. What do you think? AcidSnow (talk) 21:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In a nutshell, what it suggests is that a) Somalis, Amhara, Oromo, Tigray, etc. are descended from an Afro-Asiatic-speaking population that carried the Ethio-Somali non-African component, b) ethnic Somalis have the highest frequencies today of that component (probably due to isolation and endogamy), while Habesha have a bit less of it and instead more of the Arabian non-African component due to later periods of contact with Sabaeans/Himyarites, c) the Ethiopic and Nilo-Saharan secondary African admixture elements are basically clues as to where the Ethio-Somali non-African population migrated from and toward. Evidently, that dispersal area was in or near the Sinai like Hodgson et al. suggest. This supports their assertion that the Ethio-Somali non-African component was introduced from the Near East specifically via the Sinai rather than via the Bab el Mandeb. This is also supported by the widespread presence of the E1b1b haplogroup's V32 sub-clade in the Horn, a lineage that is believed to have originated in the southern Egypt area or thereabouts. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:46, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Send a message to this organization so they can put your last message at the beginning of the pdf! That was much easier to understand then the pdf itself. What do you think of the other group I mentioned about how Somalis have 5% Arabian and 10%? Are they wrong according to this one? AcidSnow (talk) 21:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a bad idea, actually. lol But seriously, these are just estimates. Some Somalis probably have more Arabian admixture, others less. The main thing to take away from all this is that most of the non-African affinities in Somalis, Amhara, Oromo, Tigray, etc. do not come from recent admixture with Arabs, Persians, Italians or other West Asian or European groups that Horn populations have had contact with over the years. They instead mainly come from their own Afroasiatic-speaking ancestors i.e. the Ethio-Somali population. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 22:15, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well obviously it would not since it took thousands of years for these ethnicity to form and we are discussing ancestry from thousands of years, but people on the internet are to stupid to realize it. AcidSnow (talk) 22:25, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Rer Bare
What is your take on the Rer Bare people? Do you think they are Bantu? I have never heard of such a thing until today. AcidSnow (talk) 06:23, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hagmann appears to believe that the Rer Bare (not to be confused with Reer Bari) are Bantu because of Braukämper's assertion that they are "Adonē". However, this pejorative was also reserved for Ari-type or Nilotic populations. Based on the preponderance of the latter populations in southern and western Ethiopia and the traditional absence of Bantus outside of southern Somalia, Mcclure and Bender's assertions seem most likely. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:07, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for consensus? I didn't see any opposition.
There is no edit war! I waited for anyone to show opposition, no one did! It's a fact that the Canaanites themselves aren't a distinct group, it's like saying Germanic peoples are a distinct group or that Slavic peoples are a distinct group, WRONG! They're a larger group made up of smaller groups who share a common ancestry. What do you mean wait for consensus? No one is showing opposition. I'll wait for 24 hours for anyone to show opposition, if no one will, will that count as a consensus? Guy355 (talk) 07:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was reading your discussion earlier with a another user and I saw him upject to it and revert you. I then saw how you changed it back so I stept in to slow things down so you guys could continue talking. If I am wrong you may go ahead and revert me. But seeing the disscusion again it seems that you still have not recived consensus from the other editors. AcidSnow (talk) 10:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lewiston
Hi AcidSnow. As one of the main contributors to WikiProject Somalia, would you mind giving your input here on that project page? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But what do you think if the Somali Sign Language? I am quiet shocked to belive that's its Kenyan. If anything I would have assumed it would have been independent, decedent from Italian (like all other African countries that have been colonized), or at least Arabic but Kenyan now that's shocking! AcidSnow (talk) 04:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
According to this its not at all but rather a isolate? AcidSnow (talk) 04:15, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have just viewed the talk page and a user has objected to this. AcidSnow (talk) 04:38, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, SSL isn't Italian or Kenyan. It was created by a deaf Somali gentleman, who grew up in Kenya and was educated in the Kenyan Sign Language. That's where the KSL influences come from. The system itself, however, is actually centered on Somali nationalism. Because SSL's creator shared the same language and culture with other deaf pupils in Somalia, the system is consequently also culturally appropriate. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
These classifications are getting more outrageous every time I see them. Why on earth would someone classify Aweer as Somali if their using old source that have been disputed by current ones? There are many sources that state that it's far closer to Rendille then to Somali. These are also classified in a different sub group as well. Do you actually believe in this? AcidSnow (talk) 18:54, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's linguistically possible since the original Aweer speakers were related. However, the current speakers are not. They adopted the language from those original speakers; they likely spoke Khoisan languages prior to that. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What? I think....what? Nevermind, I noticed that someone was changing all the classifications and I noticed that you might be supporting them so I wanted to see what you thought. AcidSnow (talk) 19:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, I just noticed it too. Aweer actually appears to be linguistically closest to Garre. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:20, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It does not matter I this point, do the Garre view themselves as ethnic Somalis or a different group? AcidSnow (talk) 19:34, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Garre isn't Somali, though it's related to the language. Depending on region, the Garre themselves speak Garre, Standard Somali and/or Oromo. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, I am talking about the clan. AcidSnow (talk) 22:35, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Really, I see. Do the "Garre" have a completely different ancestors and culture as well? Or is it just their ancestory? What about other Rahnweyns? Are they not "Somali", Middayexpress? Then what clans are ethnically Somali? What about those tiny clans such as the Yiber? I would really like it if you could answer all if these. AcidSnow (talk) 01:54, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
July 2014
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Revani (in Turkish) |accessdate=2014-07-18}}</ref>) and [[Greek language|Greek]] ραβανί and ρεβανί).
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Yes, but that was just a sub group of the Italian Somalis. It was not the units that the British and French Somalis were organized in. AcidSnow (talk) 23:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you get rid of the LGBT rights in Somaliland page? Somaliland is a whole different country, according to them and to one or two other countries that recognize it. Beside, they have a whole different set of rules. Somalia gives up to three years in prison, Somaliland they will KILL people who are gay. Please reopen that page so I can add that info. Thanks.
This is the same county, in fact no one recognizes it. So I am not sure what your talking about. AcidSnow (talk) 14:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hargeisa
Hi AcidSnow. Per the recommendation at DR, I have opened a new discussion here on the Hargeisa plane monument. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 13:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Turns out that User:No More Mogadishu was none other than Alifazal. It seems that he was trying to abort the discussion. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 18:40, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see. It's odd that someone would stop that low. Anyways, what is the situation with the image as of now? AcidSnow (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's over. He tried to disrupt it underhandedly, which is against the rules. But yeah, low indeed. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 20:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Tourism
Should this be redirect, Tourism in Somaliland? It's pretty much all already explained on Tourism in Somalia. In fact, all the sources used here are blogs except for two of them. AcidSnow (talk) 21:40, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have redirect it. AcidSnow (talk) 16:34, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Mogadishu
Why is it often reported that Mogadishu was founded in 900? That makes very little sense especially since some also say it was founded by Arabs. The city is much older than that. During the the Abbasid Capalhite, they did have nominal control such as tax/zakat, but in the years 804-805 Mogadishu and other cites stoped and revolted. So how could this city have been founded after 900 let alone by Arabs? Even Arab sources say that in 685 that an army was sent to Mogadishu. As we can see the city is much older than that. AcidSnow (talk) 04:50, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Scholars sometimes suggest this because they believe that the Mogadishu settlement was first established around the time of the founding of the Sultanate of Mogadishu by the Fakr ad-Din dynasty. These scholars are often not aware of the preceding, Periplus-era Sarapion city-state, over which the Sultanate of Mogadishu was later built. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 14:59, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see, well I will add all the info I can find on the Sultanate and the events recorded by the Arabs. AcidSnow (talk) 16:30, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It would even appear that even before the Sultanate that the city was a clan federation (similar to that of Switzerland). AcidSnow (talk) 20:17, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That belongs on the Sultanate's page. Also, Khaleeji geographers weren't the only ones who wrote about the area. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, for one, precedes their writings, and it is a Greco-Roman travelogue. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:47, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly is this central region? Are they combing the Galmudug region and the Himan and Heeb region to form one state? Could you also please explain Puntlands reason to oppose this? I have not looked up any news regarding Somalia these past few weeks do the increasing crisis. I just did and sadly they have reported that another lawmaker was killed. AcidSnow (talk) 18:18, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
WOW! Thanks for all the help! #Sarcasm AcidSnow (talk) 20:13, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the response. I just realized that Puntland administrates Mudug which would explain its discision. AcidSnow (talk) 13:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
AcidSnow, you deserve this barnstar for taking down Khabboos, another pusher of homeopathetic woo. Good work! We don't need such disruptive editors. Brangifer (talk) 04:24, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! If you need anything just message me! AcidSnow (talk) 05:20, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at your recent edit, you might be interested in
Talk:Germans - although I think the problem there is just one editor who probably doesn't belong here. Dougweller (talk) 14:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion has completely changed its course but I will see what I can do. AcidSnow (talk) 16:25, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maay Language
Hello Middayexpress. Since your most likely going to move this discussion to my talk page I have decided to beat you to it by starting it here instead. Anyways, I would like to disscuse Maay and it's relationship with Standard Somali and Benadir. I know several individuals that can understand Maay very well. In fact, when I ask to rate their understanding it's usually ranges from 60~80% understanding. They state that they have difficultly with their pronunciation of words and sentence structure. As of now I would I consider it to be a dialect of Somali rather than a completely diffrent language. Several linguistics also agree with this and individuals as well. For example, this individual list Maay as a dialect of Somali but also as "Partially unintelligible" with Somali. At first it would make sense classifying it as such he gives Uzbek and Turkish as his examples when they full under two different branch of the Turkic language. What do you think he meant? Do you consider Maay a dialect? AcidSnow (talk) 22:10, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think, as the linguist Abdullahi suggests, it may be a separate but closely related Afro-Asiatic language to Standard Somali. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:42, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Tourism in Somaliland
since 99% of all tourists go to western parts of somaliland. somalia and somaliland tourism pages should not be mixed. somalia has no tourists to talk about. our somaliland government do not even allow tourists to go beyond berbera unless they hire SPU (special protection unit) soldier.
Theyuusuf143 (talk) 13:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
ヰキプロジェクト琉球
はいさい, AcidSnow! I've noticed that you've contributed to the subject of Ryukyu. I invite you to join WikiProject Ryūkyū, AKA the Ryukyu task force, a collaborative effort to expand and deepen coverage of subjects pertaining to Ryukyuan geography, history, and culture. Here are a few links to pages to start you off:
Thank you for the heads up! AcidSnow (talk) 15:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Rastafarianism
Hi AcidSnow. Could you please have a look at the Rastafarianism issue here? There also appears to be some anonymous ip misuse. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 23:07, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It was not misuse, I was logged out. You seem to be mainly an expert on Somalia, so why are you calling another expert on Somalia? This has to do with Rastafari (not -ism) community in Ethiopia, and Ethiopia's undisputed and well known significance to the Rastafari movement being mentionable. Nothing to do with Somalia. Binghi Dad (talk) 23:12, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Well as it so happens, I'm a WikiProject Ethiopia too. The page also falls under the broader WikiProject Africa. Middayexpress (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I know but it is only the two of you enforcing your bias against mentioning Rastafari in a heavy-handed manner. A wider consensus about the significance of Rastafari should be sought at the relevant Wikiprojects, not "case closed" by only you two. Binghi Dad (talk) 00:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I would take your accusations against us seriously if you has provided a source.... AcidSnow (talk) 00:11, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So you are saying no need for a wider consensus process, the two of you have just decided? Really? Saying you seriously can't find any source for Rastafari in Ethiopia and have to be spoonfed one is kind of dickish. Binghi Dad (talk) 00:26, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You might want to read WP:Civility and drop the pointless accusations. AcidSnow (talk) 00:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There is no more relevant and neutral page than the Ethiopia talk page itself. That said, your assertion that Rastafarians are a "significant" presence in Ethiopia is an WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim, and exceptional claims require exceptional sources. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 00:42, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You mean you are opposed even to getting any consensus from there or letting them know, because you feel your opposition to including mention of Rastafari should settle the matter permanently? I'm not trying to accuse anyone, but that seems to be your stance, and you do seem vehemently opposed to the mention of Rastafari. Binghi Dad (talk) 00:54, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually thats not true at all. I recommend you reread the disscusion on the talk page. Mabye then you will understand. AcidSnow (talk) 00:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to the lengths he went to ensuring these factual sentences were removed because he finds it unnotable, when all the wikipedias have included it as significant information - even the Amharic one. Binghi Dad (talk) 01:06, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, no lengths necessary. That Rastafarianism material was and is undue, original research, regardless of whether or not some user added that o/r to the Amharic wiki project (frequented, as it so happens, by the late User:Til Eulenspiegel). Now for the last time, I suggest you direct any further responses to the article's talk page; that's where the discussion began and can be seen by the general public. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 01:17, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Stop Deleting Sources
Based on your apparent, and extreme, bias against religious dissenters in Africa and elsewhere, I suggest you avoid deleting informational sources to create biased edits. It is indisputably established that the execution of religious dissenters is an integral component of the definition of sharia law in many places that apply it and use the term as a euphemism in Africa, and any mention of sharia law in the context of a political government, therefore suggests a high probability of execution of apostates and religious dissenters. To exclude this from the article would be equivalent to excluding WWII from the articles concerning the Hiroshima bombings. This is not original research, but merely the establishment of expository facts. Restore my sources. Astrohoundy (talk) 18:47, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I literally have no idea what your talking about since I have yet to do any of that. Anyways, your edits on Wikipedia regarding Islam are 100% original research which is not accepted here. Therefore, I strongly advise you to stop that or risk being topic banned. AcidSnow (talk) 19:07, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Stop manipulating information fool. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahabdi (talk • contribs) 06:18, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
He did this to me too. He's being unreasonable.[reply]
Your false accusations of socking and trying to win the conversation
I haven't been socking, you just have something out against me trying to bully me. That's why you reported me for making you feel like you "lost" which is your insecurity not mine. I'm doing nothing wrong, leave me alone.
64.121.83.151 (talk) 15:35, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Are you joking? You even admired to being him. I am not bullying nor is anyone else. "Insecurity", is this coming from the guy with the baseless acuuasations? As anyone can see you are simply being disruptive. AcidSnow (talk) 15:39, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Clans
Come on, what was the point of mentioning his clan. It really serves no propose to him. He is even tying to distance himself from clanism. Your working against him at this point. AcidSnow (talk) 19:37, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that could also be said for Ms. Hirsi Magan. Yet you didn't do the same for her. Fix that, then I'll know you're sincere about this. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:51, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, dude I did not see that let alone do I know who that is. I was on Mr. Farahs page and noticed that his clan was not mentioned. But I know from his promince that someone was going to claim him. So I removed it. AcidSnow (talk) 19:58, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Middayexpress, she was not on the page but there's a guy by that name. Neither is he mentioned. I went to his page and removed the unsourced clan. AcidSnow (talk) 20:03, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to both her own page and the clan page. Look again in the latter under Ali. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You warned editors on the ISIS Talk page that Krish8 was a sock puppet and thank you for that. I see today most of those articles he listed in "#Change of sentence" have been included in a new entry in the ISIS article by a "Krishna39", who apparently joined Wikipedia earlier this month (see his Talk page) and this is his first contribution to any Wikipedia article. Do you think this is just an innocent coincidence? I ask since you seem to know something about Krish8's past activities! --P123ct1 (talk) 16:05, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am sure it's him. His edits fit his ussual activities: Hindu history and Islamic related articles (specifically those regarding terrorism). He also uses the same edit summaries such as: "fix", "grammar correction", and "another ref". Anyways, if it isn't him we would have saw an unblock request on his account. But seeing how it is most likely is him I doubt we will. AcidSnow (talk) 16:12, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized that your talking about another user. It is most likely Khabboos as well. Seeing how he appears again the day after his ban. It also fits his ussual edit summaries as well. P123ct1 do you mind reverting the edits of the sock since that's the usual procedure? I am unable to do it for some reason. AcidSnow (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have let the admin on the ISIS page, Dougweller, know about this, and won't revert if you don't mind, as I don't want to lose my 1RR allowance! (The ISIS page has a 1RR restriction at the moment). --P123ct1 (talk) 17:18, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ponyo's reverted the editor as a sock. Dougweller (talk) 17:27, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
FYI
Hi AcidSnow. As one of the main WikiProject Africa contributors, your input here would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:21, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, regarding the comment on your supposed "misconduct", I would reply to this but I am not really sure how this work. I would state that my past year here I yet to see any misconduct from you. However, there has been numerous for that other user. But my response would just end up being a summary of yours an 26oos anyways. All I can really do to support you is endorse your reply I think? AcidSnow (talk) 17:31, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. You'd post in the area under Dougweller, where the code instructs to endorse your own post (the top half is meant to remain unsigned). Note that the nature of the process is non-binding anyway; it's informal and cannot impose/enforce involuntary sanctions. It's meant to help reach voluntary agreements. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help! I will assist you all I can. I am shocked seeing all that hate against you despite what you have done for this project. If you need anything just message me! AcidSnow (talk) 01:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
StanTheMan87
You asked me to keep an eye on possible new socks for Krish8. StanTheMan87 is a new name that has been appearing recently on the ISIS and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi pages, and although his account only started on 6 August this year, I see from his user contributions that he has been extremely active in both areas you mentioned, terrorism in the Middle East and India/Pakistan. I am sure I remember seeing StanTheMan being raised somewhere as a sock of an account-holder whose name I cannot now remember but it began with "P". All this only struck me now as I had to leave him a note on his TP about an edit he had made. Is this innocent? --P123ct1 (talk) 08:59, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It does not appear to have his edit summaries. I will observe him though. AcidSnow (talk) 17:43, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
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My email, I would like to correspond with you in terms of the history of the Horn
Could please contact me via this email: Awaleking@gmail.com
I've noticed that you know a good deal about the Horn's history and I'm starting to look into it all now and well... It would be nice to correspond with you and ask you for your sources and so on so I can learn more myself, I've learned a good deal already but I'd like to learn anything that you may know that I don't. Please do consider corresponding with me and just send me a simple email saying "Hi" or whatever. Thank you... Awale-Abdi (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sure but how do I email you through here? AcidSnow (talk) 21:30, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alright... What do you know about the ancient structures in Somalia? The ruins of the old cities. I've seen images of some pre-Islamic sites and I've done some reading on them but I remember seeing on wiki here that they used "dry stone" for their building materials and that the middle ages saw a change in that Somalis began using other building materials. Is this true? And aren't structures like Mohammed Abdullah Hassan's forts dry stone in nature? Also if the did use dry stone and if there was such a change could please share some sources with me. I'm not at all doubting what I read on here, I'm just sort of compiling a bit of the region's history and need some sources otherwise my work will not be credible. Awale-Abdi (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I never made those articles but I will try to find sources for them. But u am sure that most things were made out of stone. AcidSnow (talk) 03:55, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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'' ([[Tigrigna]]) also spelled as '''Jabarti''', '''Jaberti''', '''Jebarti''' and '''Djeberti''') are a [[Muslim]]<ref name="Trimingham">{{cite book| last = Trimingham| first = J| title = Islam in
Hi AcidSnow. Regarding this, you need to provide actual evidence such as difs. Also, it may actually be Theyuusuf143. You dealt with the accounts on the tourism page, so you're in a better position to determine if this is indeed the situation. Regards Middayexpress (talk) 19:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Foreign workers
I don't really see how heiring a Turkish group would help Somalis. Maybe they should make it so that 80% of the workers are Somalis? There should also be roles as to how long a Forgien worker can stay in Somalia. I don't think it's right for Kenyans to flood the capital and take away jobs from the Somalis. AcidSnow (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Kenyans are mainly manual labourers on short-term work permits (see here). At the recommendation of a liaison committee, the government is also presently renegotiating a number of its contracts to ensure more equitable terms, including with the Turkish Favori firm. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:32, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see but can't they just get a Somali instead? AcidSnow (talk) 16:57, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It makes sense since many nations have similar job protection quotas in place. The directive appears to apply to the Kenyan manual labourers, though. Al-Bayrak's contract is earmarked for around 20 years and it was just approved. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I trust the Turkish people since they have contributed to Somali history for centuries. More importantly the vast majority of the income of the port will go to port as well. Which is completely diffrent from what was originally reported, which was that they "pocket" 45% of the income. It appears that they are only here to assist the Somalis. Though I can't say the same about the Kenyans. Their "presence" should be prevented so that they don't have any form of influence in Somalia, be it politically (annexation of Somali waters) or economically (like how the Chinese account for 20% of Malaysia but control 80% of the economy). The Somalis from Kenya and the other where they inhabited can freely work in Somalia. AcidSnow (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Those are just manual Kenyan labourers on short-term work permits, not entrepreneurs. lol But yeah, I understand your point. The Turks, on the other hand, are here for the long haul. Al-Bayrak is contracted to modernize the seaport, and it has already completed the first part of the two-phase renovation. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We should take no chances lol. If a Somali can do than why use a foreigner o.0? Anyways, how long are these permits? AcidSnow (talk) 20:09, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the permits are for a few weeks/months; and yeah, it's unskilled labour for the most part. For their part, the Turkish firms are not only rehabilitating and constructing new infrastructure, they are also implementing train-the-trainer type programs for longterm development. That was why they built the cement yard in Mogadishu i.e. so that new buildings could be constructed more rapidly with materials made in the city itself. Best, Middayexpress (talk) 20:26, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me. I also read that they are also re doing historical buildings but I can't fine the article again. 13:49, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Your help is needed on this article
One of the editors made up this fake article about Bisexuality in the Middle East with no sources and without a neutral point of view. They have refused to add sources and will not delete it. In the first moderation of the conflict a bunch of others voted to keep it, despite that it's based on the one guy's opinion and that the ideas are overgeneralized. I put in a request to review it for deletion re-consideration. Please give assistance at [1] and [2]. Thanks.64.121.83.151 (talk) 07:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Has nothing to do with persecution. plus violates Copyright of the book. --Inayity (talk) 09:12, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In his whole book, he's talking about the political and religions persecution in Africa. Not a violation of copyright. Bladesmulti (talk) 09:51, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bladesmulti, please don't make PERSONALATTACKS against me; especially on my own talk page. I have never attempted to "whitewash" that page let alone anything else on Wikipedia. More importantly, you previously misssourced the book by stating that it can be found on pages 31-32. However, they were not (page 67). The other paragraph was not even sourced to begin with. This is entirely on your part and your fault that it was removed since your the one required to provide a citation and not another user. You did not even bother to fix the page numbers but still had plenty of time to make false accusations against me. AcidSnow (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I just jumped a bit because you had written "don't falsify source", but you are correct that it was my fault. I would thank you for pointing wrong page number. Yes you are a nice editor. Bladesmulti (talk) 14:52, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"establishment of federal regional states in Somalia was a wrong decision that will create violence between the different clans, he added that federalism is meant for people with different races, ideologies and different interests"..... The Somalis, however, "“ Somalis people share religion, language and have one interest” [18]. Is it possible for it to be removed and returned to the pervious 18. Even better, why not he orginal 8 regions (few regions are domanited by one clan). Could this change if Abdikasim is reelected? AcidSnow (talk) 13:54, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Abandoning the federal system for the previous unitary system will require national level dialogue, as it is a constitutional matter. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:36, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Anyways, we should make an infobox for Somalu clans since they are not ethnic if groups. Instead it should state "clan affiliation" and related to other Somali people. AcidSnow (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True. However, there's already the related infobox parameter which can perhaps be adjusted accordingly. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:30, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It says "ethnic groups" and the only ethnic group all Somali clans fall under is Somali. It's not like the Dir or Rahanweyn are their own ethnic groups. AcidSnow (talk) 01:01, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Somali federalism process should not mirror tribalism", stated President Hassan. This sadly does not seem to be the case. My reaction to hearing about the division of the Mudug region of Somalia. Bring Puntland back into the picture is a step in the right direction though. What do you think? Should I message you on my talk page instead of here from now on? You seem to like to move this stuf to my page which I don't mind. AcidSnow (talk) 19:51, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Mudug was already partioned by agreement. The northern part was and is under Puntland's jurisdiction, while the south was and is under Galmudug's jurisdiction. All the Garowe bilateral agreement does is reaffirm this in light of the central state deal. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:02, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But that violates the constitution.[19]AcidSnow (talk) 13:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
When you have the time, please comment here. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the constitution stipulates that the Federal Parliament is tasked with selecting the ultimate number and boundaries of the autonomous regional states. The signatories were also some of the very people who wrote the constitution. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Somali languages needs a clean up as it holds a "Macro-Somali veiw". It does not even mention how that's not the case. The Herbert Lewis/E.R. Turton "Omo-Tana" hypothesis is actually pretty dubious; it's contradicted by archaeology, genetics and historical tradition alike [20]. Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi discusses this in his work [21]. Though I don't agree with parts of his work, for example when it regards the diffrence bettween a language" and a "dialect". He oddly also considers Brawa, Merca, and even Mogadishu to be former "Swahili cities". He even believes that Mogadishu was a "tributary" of the Zanzibaris despite it never being so and under Geledi control. He also leaves out of they had to ask the Geledi when they wanted to visit the city. The most shocking is how he considers the Rahanweyn not to be Somali.[22] This is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing. AcidSnow (talk) 13:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Abdullahi's Macro-Somali analysis is not directly related to his assumptions as to who controlled Mogadishu at the time; he discusses the dubious Omo-Tana theory elsewhere in his book. That said, Abdullahi's assertions on Mogadishu and the south in general are based on his assumption that the Azanians, who are described as having inhabited the southern coast in the Periplus, were a non-Afro-Asiatic population, unlike the "Berbers" of the north. However, the description in the Periplus itself of the Azanians as well as skeletal remains believed to belong to them suggest that they indeed were early Afro-Asiatic arrivals. They were likely gradually absorbed by the area's aboriginal Khoisan-like people i.e. the ancestors of the Eyle, as at Buur Heybe (see here [23]). With regard to the Rahanweyn, Abdullahi thinks that they were originally non-Somali speakers. This is based on his linguistic analysis of Jiddo, Tunni, etc., which suggests that these varieties aren't Somali dialects but instead closely related yet separate Cushitic languages. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that it has nothing to do with Mogadiahu and other cities. Lol I was takin about other parts of his work. Though, as for the Azina, they are listed in Wiki has being from Kenya. In regards to the Rahanweyn, I read in one book that they were the first group of Somalis to have come down from the northern coast. This would explain why their variations of Somali is more distant from the rest of which migrated a bit after them. AcidSnow (talk) 19:33, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. Regarding the Azanians, they inhabited a coastal stretch from southern Somalia down to ancient Rhapta. They were likely early Afro-Asiatic arrivals in the region (please see The Inhabitants of Azania here). Best, Middayexpress (talk) 19:42, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hahaha someone added an Afrocentric view to the Azania article. 19:47, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Sheba
Hi AcidSnow. Would you mind sharing your insight here on the Queen of Sheba? Could you also confirm there whether or not this link appears as malware on your computer? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:03, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No Malware detected Midday. What do you think of my edit in the Arab people article? I changed since more than 45% of Somalia is Somali. AcidSnow (talk) 19:38, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I figured about the malware. The 85% is ok I guess since the table is basically Arab League states. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:12, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion
The book, Invention of Somalia, which is used on Dada Masiti has numerous problems. Its not surprising that it indicates something different from the Oxfortd book. I have taken the time to remove it and have replaced it with a much better source. AcidSnow (talk) 01:52, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what the Hunwick link there asserts, as I can't access it. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:12, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hey
Do you mind taking a look at this? It would be very helpful since I have never been here before. I am quite busy; which can be seen in my get few edits these past days, but I will try to be on tomorrow. Thanks. AcidSnow (talk) 04:16, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Left a reply on the article's talk page. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:12, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have returned. Anyways, there's no reason to have even brought the discussion there to begin with since it could have been easily resolved at the talk page. This is the same thing the admin stated. I don't see any point to responding to his personal attack and nonsense either since the real dispute has been solved. What do you think Middayexpress? Other than that thanks for the help! AcidSnow (talk) 18:51, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's over, AcidSnow. See the talk page. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:08, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have found some sources that state that the city was "aligned" with the Caliphates. But in 805, Mogadishu and other Somalis stoped doing so and decalred a republic.[24] Shortly after a clan federation was formed in the city. It eventually lead to one clan being elected and this forming the Dynasty.[25] So basically, Sacropion -> Caliphate -Republic -> and then Sultanate. Though Sadly I can't find much the detaily explains this. What do you think about this Middayexpress? AcidSnow (talk) 19:17, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It also appears that during the year 694,[26] Islam had reached Mogadishu where the city was sending money to the Caliphates.[27] I am not sure if they intended to solely asked for tribute because the city had then became Muslim or if they intended to occupy the whole area. Anyways, after doing a bit more research, I have managed to found many more sources. However, many of these incorrectly state that Somalia is part of Zanji or that it is another Swahili city. It's also seems like Mogadishu's rebellion and the arrival of the Abbasid army in 805 (the begging of 9th century) explains the claim has to how Mogadishu was "founded" by non-Somali Arabs in the 9th century Middayexpress. AcidSnow (talk) 22:43, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As I believe I already explained elsewhere, the Azanians alongside some Khoisan hunter-gatherers (the Eyle forebears) were the inhabitants of the southern coast during that period. The former were early Afro-Asiatic arrivals to the region, while the latter were the aboriginal peoples of the area [here]. On the other hand, Swahili culture is at its origin a Bantu culture, with some secondary Yemeni/Omani and Persian influences. So you are correct when you note that it definitely wasn't a Swahili area. The Swahili association only began in earnest later, during the early modern period via the Omani Sultanate of Zanzibar, and it was largely nominal even then. That said, the link is quite interesting. It indicates that the first Kharijite followers arrived in Mogadishu in 694, but doesn't appear to suggest that they were proselytizers. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (which dates from the start of the Common Era i.e. before the birth of Islam) indicates that there were already relations between the Horn and Near East/Gulf region, so this isn't a given. Additionally, Ibn Batutta indicated that the Sultan of Mogadishu at the time of his arrival in the 1300s was originally from the northern Barbara region. This in turn is consistent with I.M. Lewis' assertion, based on Al-Maqrizi, that the first Muslim polities in Benadir were established by rulers from the north. There's also architectural evidence supporting this (e.g. the buildings in Goan Bogame, which are identical in design to the later ones in Mogadishu's old districts). Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lol dude I am not talking about the Azania, the Swahili, and let alone the Khoisans. Anyways, is this "bad" information or "useful" information that can be added to the article? Sometimes I can never understand what mean. Us that the same for me? If Sultanate was established by Somalis then who are these "Emozeidi Arabs" Middayexpress? AcidSnow (talk) 19:15, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you did mention the Swahili. Anyway, the Emozeidi Arabs are presumably the Fakr ad-Din dynasty. Even their lineage, however, is uncertain. For instance, the Sultan of Mogadishu in the 1300s had a Mahdali lineage, yet Batutta indicated that he was originally from the northern Barbara region and spoke both the local Somali dialect and Arabic fluently. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:51, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So they were just Somalis. I think it should be made clear on the article. Can i add the info I found to the article or no? AcidSnow (talk) 17:52, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for October 13
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Stuff
Well seeing how you moved my latest question here I have gone a asked my question here instead lol. Anyways, I thought Matt Bryden was removed as member of UN’s Somalia Eritrea Monitoring Group (SEMG) but he leaked some documents in July of 2014. Could you explain this to me Midday? AcidSnow (talk) 02:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That link appears to be about one Dinesh Mahtani, attempted regime change, and this video. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi AcidSnow. Could you explain please how the Kharijites are related to the Sultanate's Fakr ad-Din dynasty? The latter ruling house was established in the 1200s, while the Kharijite date is ca. the late 600s. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article states that they did no support the Caliphate but they did. AcidSnow (talk) 17:50, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to clarify how I have no idea what were talking about. AcidSnow (talk) 18:53, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I presume the "they" above is the Kharijites. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't you what you mean. Are you talking about how Mogadishu was Muslim in the 600's? Anyways, I plan to make changes to Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi, such as updating his Rise to power and possibly a separate article discussing the Civil War/Criss in Adal. What do you think? AcidSnow (talk) 15:23, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The latter is already touched on the Futuh al-Habash page. Regarding the Kharijites and 694 date, they are in your link. The Kharijites don't seem to have been proselytizers, though; they were also apparently few in number. I'm a bit uncertain as to what exactly is the claimed connection if any with the Sultanate of Mogadishu since the Fakr ad-Din dynasty established the kingdom much later, circa the late 1200s. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:38, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lol my bad, my links do mention them (never saw because of my phone). But yes, now seeing it on my Desktop it does say that they were not here to convert but rather trade. They did in the end bring Islam to the city. As you can see, they don't appear to have any connection with the first dynasty. Though, they did cause the Somalis to align with the Caliphate. Does this answer your question? AcidSnow (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What are we talking about since I am still confused Midday? If they weren't here to convert maybe zakat? AcidSnow (talk) 20:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Saiman Miah
Hi, I noticed you commented on the talk page here, the article has since been nominated for deletion so you may be interested in commenting here also, take care. Tanbircdq (talk) 20:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
lol I used Microsoft paint. If you need help editing something spefic I am willing to help. AcidSnow (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I need any program, which I can draw detailed maps about ongoing conflict. Except paint :) Omega933 (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Map, graphics
Hi AcidSnow. The government just published a new control map; it's dated October 14. The militants only control eight major towns now (two other minor ones have since been liberated), and the remaining areas are about to fall [28]. Could you please adjust our political wikimap accordingly? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I will do this shorty Midday. AcidSnow (talk) 16:27, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that would be great. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:42, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's done but you do realize that I am using Paint right? AcidSnow (talk) 17:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It looks good, thanks. Could you also perhaps adjust the legend boxes on the map so that they simply read "Federal Government of Somalia", "Al-Shabaab", "Somaliland", "Somali majority territories [in small letters]", and "Other countries"? The "Unaligned or Neutral" box is fine [29]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:46, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but according to the map, it states that Somalis live just outside of the Somali Region and the Northeast Province, is this true? Also can you update the Members of Parliament using this? AcidSnow (talk) 17:53, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to be wrong. The traditional Somali area of inhabitation to the west and south of Somalia proper is the Somali Region and Northern Eastern Province. Please fix that as well, if possible. Thanks for the parliament link; I'll adjust the federal legislators shortly. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:15, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Its done,. I was not sure as what to do with Dire Dawa since its 42% according to Wikipedia. As such, I left it out of the map.
That's okay I guess; thanks again. I've fixed the federal parliament thing, btw. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
An additional new area in Hiran, the Yooman locality, was just captured [30]. Other local areas are expected to be liberated as well, so the map will probably soon have to be adjusted accordingly. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:02, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please also adjust the legend boxes on the map as specified above? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:31, 2 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Edit summaries
I don't have a horse in the race, but I also don't care much for being called a sock, especially when my only involvement in the issue was to revert and block two actual sockpuppets. Please do be more careful about how you level accusations. Parsecboy (talk) 12:13, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your edit summary made it appear so (since you reverted my edit). The socks I blocked were thesetwo, whose work you restored (and actually, if you look a bit deeper, Veritnight was simply reverting those socks, whose edits were originally inserted here, albeit in different form). Parsecboy (talk) 13:55, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ahmad Ibn Ibrahim
Sounds interesting. I thought you had graphics software, though? If so, try the tracing feature on it. By the way, I think you may be right about the Sultanate of Mogadishu being perhaps older than we realize. There are apparently old Himyarite inscriptions in Xamar; the toponym may actually derive from that [31]. The Periplus also notes a loose suzerainty there under the Himyarite and Sabaean King Charibael. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"graphics software", LOL I have been using Microsoft Paint this whole time! I will go see if I can find anything that can copy stuff. AcidSnow (talk) 17:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
IGAD
Why is Somalia in a development group (the IGAD) with Kenya, Uganda, and South Sudan? Many of these types of international organizations are usually with countries that are culturally, ethnic, linguistic, or geographic related. However, Somalia posses none of those with Kenya, Uganda, and South Sudan? Due to this group there has been a massive error for the definition of the "Horn of Africa"; which even the African Union has made by including those random countries in it. If there's going to a change, then I would propose a much more political and economic group like an "Horn of Africa Union" or something similar. Sudan May join if it desires to due to its relations with the Horn of Africa. AcidSnow (talk) 14:34, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
IGAD is basically a trading bloc focused on development. As such, it is similar to the larger COMESA (which by the way Somalia isn't a member of). The body was at its foundation known as the Intergovernmental Authority on Drought and Development (IGADD), so its mandate was clear. For administrative purposes, the organization's service area is sometimes described as being coextensive with the Horn. This is mainly due to the fact that IGAD is headquartered in Djibouti city, its current leader is Somali, and its overall policies closely follow those of the Ethiopian government. Horn populations also maintain a number of businesses abroad in the African Great Lakes region, and one way of ensuring that these commercial interests are protected is through development organizations like this one. Regarding a confederation of the actual Horn of Africa nations (Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia), one has already been proposed and the US State Department is behind it [32][33]. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:28, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True. What do you think of the recent events in Somali politics, Midday? Honestly, I can't find anything wrong that the Prine did, however, I can't say the same for the President. Oddly enough, the term "no confidence" which is what they are calling the motion seems to suggest that there is clear corruption, seeing how the term means "not fully believing that anything went wrong" in this case. AcidSnow (talk) 20:12, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's over the cabinet reshuffle. Basically, the Prime Minister demoted some of the President's associates in the PDP party to less prominent ministerial positions. This was the same thing that the rift with the previous Premier was over, only he tried to sack the officials rather than reassign them to less important offices. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:34, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting, even then he still has the power to do so as this is his cabinet and not the Preseidents. I have read many Somalia based articles that support the Prime Minister of which I to agree with. How about you or do not like talking about this stuff? Anyways, I have been working on Al-Ghazi these past few days and my own personal matters which is why I have done little. Do you mind giving me sources that disscuse his childhood? I have found a little but the are stil very interesting stuff. AcidSnow (talk) 21:43, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I believe Al-Ghazi first became leader of the Sultanate of Adal at around age 20 or 21. He was just a kid. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 17:54, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Italian language
Has the Italian language lost it's use in Somalia? Many Somali leaders have historically spoke Italian as one of their languages, such as the majority of Somali President, Prime Ministers, and Parliment Members. However, seeing how Hassan Sheikh Mohamud does speak Italian, let alone Arabic, it seems that English has become the preferred 3rd language amongst Somalis. There does not even seem to be Italian-based schools in major cities such as Bosaso, only "English, Arabic, and the Somali local language". There does seem to be, however, an attempt to revive the language in Somalia, such as the reoping of Italian only schools and most notably, the reintroduceing it in the Somali National University (though, it quite shocking how the school does not even have any of its course in Somali but only English). It is also used by the Somalis training in Italy as well. It also seems that the United Nations would prefer to hire someone that spoke Italian rather than English. What do you think of the role the Italian language plays in Somalia? Personally I think it should be required with Arabic in a fashion like this, Arabic: Elementary -> Middle Schhol and Italian: Highschool -> University. But the Somali language is used throught the education system. English can be asked later on if someone desires it. That being said, is school compulsory in Somalia? If not, a law should be approved asap regarding this! AcidSnow (talk) 03:48, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Italian is mainly spoken today by older professionals, particularly those educated in the south. Those who matriculated in the north or abroad are less likely to speak it. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:01, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So I take it that it's done? AcidSnow (talk) 20:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If it's not part of the curriculum like the official languages, its usage is likely to continue decreasing. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:31, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Does the same go for English? AcidSnow (talk) 20:45, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, as it is a working language. Italian is still a working language to some extent, but obviously not on the same level as before. Perhaps it will be again someday, who knows? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:56, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully its use does increase. That being said, it seem to be regarded as a working language even by the CIA. This would explain why they list it as so in their Factbook even though they know it's not an official language and have recently updated the list of Cabneit Members. AcidSnow (talk) 21:16, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but that's apparently per the older Transitional Federal Charter[34]. I'm not sure what the Provisional Constitution indicates in this respect. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:25, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Faytinga
Hi AcidSnow. A user tried to add the Faytinga file, although I explained to him that as a Nilotic Kunama individual, she is not representative of Eritrea's Afro-Asiatic majority. I also linked him to where this was explained to Vetrisimino0 [35]. I also suggested the Tigrinya singer Helen Meles as a more appropriate alternative. Can you please keep an eye on this? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Even if he does not recognize the pervious consensus, then he should at least recognize the current one. Since Vetrisimino0 is a confirmed sock his opinion means nothing now. So it's currently 2:1 at the moment. AcidSnow (talk) 17:06, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I just noticed that he was blocked. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:10, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Shall I fix his edits on Eritrea and other articles or do you plan to do it? He made many unsourced claims in many articles. AcidSnow (talk) 17:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You have no been accused of being a racist. I understand not informing someone that they are edit waring since you can't disputed that they haven't, especially if they have, but not informing you about this is just plain shocking. How does one go from "one individual is unrepresentative of the country" to "I don't like her because I am a racist"?!? It seems very odd if you ask me. They also appears to accuse you of violating NPOV because they think your Tigrinya or any other "allied" group. Ironically, this completely contradicts you refusal to even mention the slightest thing regarding your ethnicity/race and how you have requested that I do the same. They also appear to plan to take it a notice board. AcidSnow (talk) 02:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting, but not really all that surprising. If you look at the page, the user is similarly aggressive throughout. I think there may also be a bit of a knowledge gap. The user appears to take umbrage at my assertion that Kunama traditions aren't representative of the nation's Afro-Asiatic majority. However, this is a given, since the NiloticKunama are not an Afro-Asiatic population to begin with; they are instead a Nilo-Saharan population. Ironically, one of the links just produced also indicates pretty much everything I did. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:52, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The user tried to re-add the Faytinga file atop that of Meles despite a) the consensus for only one file and of Helen Meles at that, b) MOS' clause against file clutter, c) his own claim that he was indifferent to which of the two artists was on the page, and d) Huon's indication that ethnicity did not matter in the section but rather only representation of what's typical Eritrean music (he wrote that he was adding a "Kunama" individual, not Faytinga). Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:28, 2 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks
Thank you very much ...i really appreciate itSaadkhan12345 (talk) 11:08, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, on this article Arab slave trade I am having a problem with an ip editor. It is small but you know how these things go, when someone starts calling you names you bunker down and start shelling. The issue is Arab, or Muslim conquest, which is better. Your feedback would be appreciated. both positions can be argued for an the term is used interchangeable. I do however feed the ip is not actually worried about that and is inserting Islam for Islamophobic reasons not scholarship reasons. --Inayity (talk) 08:50, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It obviously be "Arab slave trade" since both Arab Christian and Arab Jews were involved in this and not just the Muslims, Inayity. Even then this "Islamic conquest" wasn't entirely Muslim. This can be seen from how Spanish Jews allied themselves with the Muslims. AcidSnow (talk) 16:24, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you come across any ref that show the role of non-Muslims in the Arab conquest let me know. I tried looking but in my short search could not find anything. I know Jews were in the society in Spain, but ref to actual side-by-side in the Arab conquest.--Inayity (talk) 18:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Article on Bayla
You have edited a line which stated East Africa, and changed it to Horn of Africa. You failed to provide a reason, and the edit you made is also wrong.
Please explain yourself.
Article on Murcanyo
You have edited a line that originally referred to Majerteen inhabitants. This was edited, without proper reason, to the term Bedouin.
You have reverted it, twice, to Bedouin, even when told by the original poster that the term Bedouin is misinformative. Rather, the correct term is nomad, and even more so, pastoralist. The town in question was never a nomadic stronghold in any case, being inhabited by part-time pastoralists, part-time fishermen/coastal dwellers. The term Bedouin is used perhaps once in the original work from 1872. That does not mean it is correct, or should be automatically included. Moreover, it was never included in the original post, for reasons explained. Bedouins are Arab nomads. If you are still confused, see the Bedouin article on Wiki.
It is inappropriate to bait blocked editors, as you did out here. I understand this might be an extremely isolated incident, that's why I'm not posting this comment on the edit warring noticeboard. I am sure you'll take this suggestion in good form. Thanks. WifioneMessage 04:28, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your concern but it means "thank you my love" in Italian. I choose to respond softly instead of giving an angry response in an attempt to reason with him. Since he states that I lack education I choose to respond in Italian. Was it still wrong? Thank you in advance. AcidSnow (talk) 04:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it was inappropriate and sounded sarcastic. I understand you did not mean it to be sarcastic, but that's how it sounds. So do take care. Thanks. WifioneMessage 05:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I had no intention of baiting him or for it to be inappropriate. I do see, however, how it can be taken as being sarcastic; which once again was not my goal. Realizing this I can see how it can come as being inappropriate. I apologize for this Wifione. AcidSnow (talk) 19:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
November 2014
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Semitic people may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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Caucasians]]) than to the Semitic-speakers of the Arabian peninsula, [[Ethiopian Semites]] ([[Amharic and Tigrean speakers), and the Arabic speakers of North Africa.<ref>{{cite journal | last1 =
Hi Midday! I know it's been a while so how are you? Anyways, do you mind lookimg over this? It's a bit old since I just got back. Thanks you! AcidSnow (talk) 13:50, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey there, AcidSnow! A long time indeed. I'm not sure what that Sabra discussion is about; it's hard to follow. Can you please briefly summarize it here? From the looks of it, it appears to have been already resolved. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not necessarily Midday. The discussion has now become about his decision to make insults and other baseless accusations against me simply because he is showing me "how Wikipedia works". AcidSnow (talk) 20:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see; I was just going by the timestamps. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mind giving your two cents then? AcidSnow (talk) 22:42, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what it's about; that's why I asked you to summarize it. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Zanzibar
What do you think of Zanzibars claim to Somalia? I have found some new info on their claim that I think you would be interested in hearing. But I will show you after so I don't confuse you. If not, then showing you now is fine. AcidSnow (talk) 20:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the Omani Sultanate of Zanzibar's claim to certain southern areas in Somalia during the 19th century was largely nominal. The Benadir region in the late 1800s, just prior to the establishment of Italian Somaliland, was ostensibly under the joint control of the Geledi Sultanate and the Zanzibar Sultan. However, on the ground, it was actually primarily controlled by the Geledi Sultans. The Omani Sultan thus first had to obtain permission from the Geledis before building the Fort of Garesa. The Sultanate of Hobyo and Majeerteen Sultanate controlled the areas to the northeast of that, and the Warsangali Sultanate controlled the areas to the northwest. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I believe other than that the only "influence" Zanzibar had was a seaside house and nothing more
However, after doing some digging I found some interesting stuff. It's hard for me to begin with this so I will list events that supposedly happened that lead up to this supposed "attack" on Mogadishu that I recently heard about:
In 1804: Somalis near Kismayo capture two British sailors and planned to enslave them. However, they are used as ransom and later released.[38] A group of shipwrecked Arabs are also sold I to slavery. They are released later on.
In 1823: In retaliation, Arabs supposedly kidnapped two Somali leaders from Mogadishu and hold them for ransom. Through British pressure they were released.[39]
In 1828: Zanzibar/Oman supposedly attacks Mogadishu. After this the event get ridiculous! Most of the books I found only mention Mogadishu being "attacked" and Somalis still refusing to listen. Said Samatar states otherwise and claims that "The city was bombarded into submission, a few heads of its ruling families were executed, and a few more were exiled to Zanzibar".
Sir Reginald Coupland goes on to claim that "The town had been bombarded, and, on its evacuation by its inhabitants, occupied and sacked by a landing-party. On the departure of the fleet, a letter of apology and submission had been sent to Muscat".[40]
The claim of the letter is contradicted by the events after:
In 1840: Zanizabar supposedly sends a "governor" to Mogadishu and other cities in southern Somalia.
In 1841: This "governor" is massacred along with other Zanzabairs by Somalis and the money is taken.[41]
In 1842: The ruling Imam died and the Geledi sent a 8,000 man army to stop the dispute.[42]
In 1843: The Zanzibaris send in another "governor", this time a Somali. However, he abandoned his post.
So I am not sure as to what happened at all during this period of history Midday.
I did, however, find one boom that claims that Mogadishu and other cities payed taxs: "In the 1860s, the situation was little changed. Brava supplied the Sultan with only 200 thalers annually, Mogadishu with 500-2,000 depending on the trade. Merca, on the other hand, reportedly yielded 3-5,000 thalers yearly to Majid's customs collector".[43] This is claimed by Lee V. Cassanelli. AcidSnow (talk) 22:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Samatar and Copeland are entirely mistaken here. It appears that both the Geledis and the Omani Zanzibaris ostensibly held sway over the local Mogadishu administration. Cassanelli's description of the exacted tribute thus seems accurate. However, the difference was that the Geledis' hegemony was more than nominal. Besides Benadir, they also controlled the entire riverine region, where their headquarters was located. The Zanzibaris' power was limited to sending envoys to collect tribute, though they had no significant presence on the ground. However, as you point out, even the demanded tribute was often ignored, culminating in the massacre of that one governor and his men. By the late 1860s, when Imam Azzan bin Qais of Oman sought to build the Fort of Garessa in the city, he was thus obligated to first ask permission from Sultan Ahmed Yusuf of Geledi. [44]. It is thus clear which of the two sultanates held the real power prior to the establishment of Italian Somaliland [45]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think having a representative and calling them called a "governor" while getting killed means anything. In fact, when the Sultan asked to make a fort in 1876 they killed another representing LOL.[46] It also turns out that the Sultan never leased Mogadishu but rather his fort to Italy.[47] Anyways, What groups exactly formed the army of the Sultan of Zanzibar? It seems to be all Arab. Do you also know if the Sultans were Arabs or Swahilis? AcidSnow (talk) 19:27, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Quite interesting stuff there. With regard to the Sultans, they were originally Omani. As they intermarried over the years with local Bantu women on the Swahili Coast, a new, amalgamated Chotara identity emerged. However, as their culture was and is traditionally patrilineal, they were for all intents and purposes Omani. I'm not sure, but perhaps their forces were similarly composed. The various Zanzibari Sultans can be found on Sultans of Zanzibar. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sultans of Sultanate of Mogadishu
Hi AcidSnow. Could you please enumerate the Sultans of the Sultanate of Mogadishu that you know of? The first dynasty was that of Fakr ad-Din, but it gets muddled in later reigns. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well to understand the later we need to understand the before. Such s how Mogadishu was possibly allied with the Caliphate in the 800's. This will help use understand how a Somali became Sultan of Maldives. AcidSnow (talk) 20:58, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
True. Many of the Sultans' names are also apparently minted on the Sultanate's own currency. Some of the mints have apparently been found as far as Australia. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Midday, before we do anything can we deal with the 800's first? If not, then well never understand how the Sultanate formed. AcidSnow (talk) 23:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That can work. Were the 800s when the Kharijite proselytizers arrived? Another thing is that the urban area was built over the ancient Sarapion city-state; so that's perhaps the best place to start. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 23:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. It's going to be hard to find things that clearly discussing the 000's let alone the time after up until the 600's. I will see what I can dig up. If you already know anything, then feel free to drop it down. Anywise, why are people taking stuff from Wikipedia? Honestly, if I knew people would start taking stuff and publishing them I would have shown up in 2001 lol. AcidSnow (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hamitic
Do you mind doing a clean up in the Hamitic page? AcidSnow (talk) 21:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It looks fairly satisfactory, imho. To round it out, it should probably note the archaeological and osteological finds pertaining to the makers of the Savanna Pastoral Neolithic culture and their apparent descendants, the ancient Azanians. Daniel Stiles, who helped establish the Department of Archaeology at the University of Nairobi, excavated the associated burials. He indicates: "although the terminology and some details have changed, Seligman, Huntingford and Murdock each held the kernel of truth in their theories[...] the Azanians of the 1st to 4th century A.D. were no doubt Cushitic speakers, and their descendants and related immigrants from the north brought with them their traditions and funerary customs, some of which were passed on to the peoples living in Kenya at the time[...] and they were abnormally tall!" [48][49]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I pasted some material from Savanna Pastoral Neolithic. Please have a look. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 23:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Notify
I have requested a mediator to resolve our disagreement on "SSC Clans". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.99.102.81 (talk) 14:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Clans
Should there be a template for Somali clans? The current templete lists them as ethnicities and that they are ethnically different from one another. AcidSnow (talk) 04:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you mean there. You ask whether there should be a template, yet refer to a template. Do you perhaps mean the infobox? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:07, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I was referring to the current infobox which list them as ethnic groups despite them all being ethnic Somalis. AcidSnow (talk) 23:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, good point there. I'm not sure, though, if there's a satisfactory alternative. Are there any other similar infoboxes? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:34, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt it Middayexpress. Anyways, how is the Gulf of Aden doing? Has the shiping and what I think is more interesting, cruse ships gone up from the pre-piracy era? AcidSnow (talk) 17:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I have found some maps on Wikipedia that state that Somaliland is oddly not part of Somalia. I have made attempts to fix them but I am unable to do so due to .SVG type of the images or something like that. AcidSnow (talk) 20:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure, but wasn't that political map svg as well? If so, then your Paint program is probably adequate for this. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. I can edit the images but cant upload it. 20:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
DR/N request Khatumo State#SSC clans
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Talk:Khatumo State#SSC_clans".
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! --DRN volunteer Bejnar (talk) 20:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mogadishu
Why on earth do people foolishly claim that Mogadishu, Hamar, and Shingani are Swahili or Bantu words? Even the Cambridge believes this, see here. That makes zero sense when the Bantu never lived in the Horn of Africa until the 1800's! Mogadishu, Brava, Kismayo and the rest have always been Somali and never in the hands of the Bantu or Swahili. More importantly, Hamar, from what remember is the Somali word for some plant that with the letter "T". I will inform you when I find the book or another one again. AcidSnow (talk) 02:54, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Shangani" is actually of Persian (Farsi) origin; it is derived from one of the quarters of the town of Nishapur in Persia [50]. The reason why these and some other toponyms have meanings in Swahili is probably because Swahili has many Farsi, Cushitic and Arabic loanwords. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Though I am curious as to why it's named as such. Anyways, his back at the Khatumo page. AcidSnow (talk) 18:56, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No prob. Mogadishu is similarly derived from maq'ad shah, or "seat of the shah" [51]. The Persian presence there is ancient. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The older place name "Hamar" is in turn thought to be of Somali origin. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Somalis in the UK
Hi AcidSnow. Would you weighing in here? You're familiar with the matter, so your insight would be appreciated. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 22:33, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that would be appreciated by me too! Cordless Larry (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I saw it earlier but I am not sure as to what to make of it. As of now I think it should certainly be mentioned that the only problem Somalis have in the UK education system is that they don't come from an English nation and not use to its structure. Pakistanis, Indians, Nigerians and the rest of them already know English when they arrive. On the other hand, Somalis speak Arabic. However, anything from the early 2000's should not be mentioned as it's highly miss leading since Somalis had only recently arrived. AcidSnow (talk) 22:58, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why we can't mention data from the early 2000s, if it's noted how and why things might have changed since then? As far as I'm aware, the article doesn't have to just be a snapshot of the current situation of Somalis in the UK, but can also include historical material. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:20, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It was phrased in the present tense and presented a misleading encapsulation of the current scholastic situation. How some pupils may or may not have performed a decade ago has no bearing on and should not be used against those of today, who are necessarily not the same students. Middayexpress (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The material I added from the early 2000s was as follows: "Some sources also find levels of completed education within the Somali community to be low. For instance, the Institute for Public Policy Research has published analysis of Labour Force Survey data for the period 2000-04, and found that, of Somali-born immigrants who had arrived since 1990 (who made up 761 of 812 Somali-born people in the sample), 50.1 per cent had no qualification and 2.8 per cent had higher qualifications". That's not in the present tense (apart from the first sentence, which I agree could be better worded). Cordless Larry (talk) 01:00, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The opening sentence, which the rest of the paragraph is intended to buttress, is in the present tense. Hence, it is misleading, as it actually pertains to the purported situation over a decade ago. Please leave a response if any on the page. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 02:47, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mind explaining your side? The discussion seems to have shifted from "Why some Somalis face problems" to "what is the better source" or something. If you statements are as true as all your other ones I will most certainly support you. It seems that you object to interpretation of sources, which many of the ones that have been provided are. The Economist article is most certainly one. You instead seem to prefer official ones. Is this it? AcidSnow (talk) 20:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are a couple of issues. First, certain sources, in use or proposed, are indeed problematic. These include that Economist piece, which doesn't explain from which government body it obtained its unusually low nationwide GCSE figure for Somali students from. Judging by the number itself, it was probably taken from a non-governmental 2013 paper by the IPPR. However, that 2013 IPPR paper doesn't claim that Somali students had the lowest educational attainment like that Economist editorial does. The two lowest attaining student populations' GCSE scores in the IPPR paper are, in fact, over 20 percentage points lower than that of the Somali pupils. Similarly, the 2013 IPPR's unofficial GCSE figure for Somali students is itself around 14 percentage points lower than the official nationwide GCSE for Somali pupils for the same period per the Lambeth local authority (!). Second, there appears to be an attempt today on the talk page to classify Somali students as "Black African" pupils based on that same Lambeth local authority paper. However, the Lambeth paper does not use a racial scheme, but rather a linguistic one [52]. The Lambeth local authority actually published a 2008 paper exclusively on Somali student attainment, where it differentiates its Somali students from its "Black African" pupils [53]. Many other local authorities do the same (e.g. Camden Education Commission[54]), while others use something called extended ethnicity codes. A third problem is the insistence on using outdated data. For example, it's actually asserted in the wikitext based on the 2001 census that only around ~89% of Somalis in the UK are Muslim. Salaam indicates that this was because Somalis were at the time undercounted in various local authorities, but that this underestimate was later fixed for the 2011 census [55]. At any rate, please weigh in on the article's talk page. The page could certainly use some actual Somali input, so I'll see to that shortly. I'll also later on today write to Feyisa Demie, who is probably the authority on Somali student attainment in the UK, and link him to the page. He wrote both Lambeth government papers, so his insight is invaluable. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the 2001 census probably did undercount Somalis, but that's not the same thing as saying that it got the proportion of Somalis who stated they were Muslims wrong. This has all been explained by several editors on the article talk page. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This all quite interesting Midday. Feel free to copy and past my reply wherever it's need.
You're right, there are many problems with the current page and possible future edits that will create even more issue then solve. First off all, Somalis are not classified as "Black Africans". Few Somalis would even classify themselves as such. Last time I checked Somalis are regarded as "British Arabs" instead of the former. Not only is this legally viewed as such it's also how the majority identifies themselves as. But this all besides the point as the document does not even class Somalis as such and list them as an entirety different group: "Main Ethnic Groups: White British, Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Black Caribbean, Black African, Somali......". As you already stated in the discussion, IPPR's paper is also highly problematic. It does not simply underscore Somalis by a point or two but rather a whopping 14%! Nor is it even an official document anyways. The official GCSE should most certainly be used instead as it's not only an official document but gives a far more accurate result. More importantly, how is the Economist even a possible "useful" sources when it has received immense amount of criticism? It's doesn't even identify it's own source, but as you stated now it's possibly the IPPR which itself is already problematic. Anyways, the 89.3% of Somalis in the UK being Muslim is quite low. As it's well know that "with few exceptions, Somalis are Muslims of the Sunni tradition". But as Salaam pointed out, there was undercounting amongst the Somalis. Not only did undercounting happen but this occurred over 14 years ago! A Census done now would most certainly have a different figure for the Somalis. So simply having the 2001 Census is highly misleading in all aspects ways.
And yes, please do inform Mr. Demie about this discussion as his input his highly valued. Anyways, if you believe I have missed anything that's please do inform me. AcidSnow (talk) 22:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just a few points. The article doesn't say that the 2001 census figures are still valid. It's just saying that was the situation in 2001. As for Somalis not being classified as Black Africans, that's exactly how a couple of thousand Somali pupils are classified in the National Pupil Database, as analysed by Demie. I'm sure he can explain that if you're going to contact him. See also here. In fact, when completing a form such as the census, you can tick any ethnicity box you like. A Somali could tick the White British box if they wanted. According to this local government source, "it is likely that most Somali residents ticked either the Black African box or the Black Other box". As for the Economist source, I don't think anyone is suggesting we use that for GSCE results any more. The Demie source appears a much better one, and that's what I'm advocating using. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:26, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Local authorities actually analyse populations in various ways; there's no single classification that applies to all of them. Those extended ethnicity codes are in fact used by a minority of them. It has likewise already been established that Demie distinguishes his Somali students from his "Black African" pupils in his actual papers on the Somali student population [56]. Somalis could indeed tick any census box they want, including Arab [57] ("although there are census categories for people identifying themselves as 'Bangladeshi' and 'Pakistani', there is no separate category of 'Somali'[...] people identifying themselves as Somali would therefore be included in other census categories such as 'Arab' or 'African'" [58]). Hence, no point in trying to racially classify them here on Wikipedia, which in any event WP:CATEGRS discourages ("ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not"). It's also contrary to how Somalis as a population have traditionally regarded themselves; indeed, there are specific traditional terms for Black Africans in contradistinction to ethnic Somalis in the Hamito-Semitic Somali language [59]. More importantly, it is contrary to their very genetic ancestry [60]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it doesn't really matter if we think Somalis are Black Africans or not, because Demie has provided us with data on Somali-speaking pupils, which we can use in the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, seems fairly accurate AcidSnow. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is some sort of parallel universe! I'm not trying to categorise the article under some sort of Black African category, so I don't know what WP:CATEGRS has to do with it. All I'm try to do is get the Somali pupils' GSCE result statistics from the Demie source added to the article! Cordless Larry (talk) 00:24, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see. I am just trying to clear things up for you as to what the majority of Somalis identify as. Anyways, this is were it all originated from:
Anyways, Midday has already explained the relevance of WP:CATEGRS, "ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not". AcidSnow (talk) 00:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That policy you're quoting is about use of Wikipedia's category system. I'm not suggesting putting the article in a category. The word "categorised" as I used it was referring to where the Somali pupils are listed in the National Pupil Database, as reported by Demie. I can't do much about that - it's up to whoever put the Somali speakers in that category when the National Pupil Database was constructed. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That said, if it helps I could remove the bit about "This compares to 58 per cent of all Black African pupils" from my suggested addition to the article? Cordless Larry (talk) 00:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-balaka
Someone is removing sourced content on Anti-balaka. Is there anything you can do to stop this? AcidSnow (talk) 21:00, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Can you brief me on the thing? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 22:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Even though this group is a Chrstian terrosit group it has many animist amongst its ranks. However, a single purpose account has been constantly removing the word "Christains" from the article. I would revert him but I have already made three in the past 27 hours and don't want to get accused of gnawing the system. AcidSnow (talk) 22:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello! I have been trying to figure out how many Bantus that live in Dadaab and other refuge camps in the Somali region of Kenya. For starters, it seems like that they took 10,000s or Bantus yo Kakuma in northwest Kenya. This seems to have been to protect them from discrimination as we as violence in Dabaab. However, according to one UNHRC article Dadaab is 6% Bantu?[61] In fact, it also stated that Kakuma is not only 20% Bantu but is also has 20% of its population also coming from the Hawiye clan and less than a quater Darood?[62] How is this going to protect them? It seems highly counterproductive. Or do they want the Bantus and Nilotic to have greater numbers for a changes? They have also foolishly sent the Benadiri, Bajuni, Barawanis, and Ashraaf clans there as well.[63] Though some groups like the Bajuni have returned to Kismayo and other areas. Do you know if the Bantus plan to ever return to Somalia? AcidSnow (talk) 04:26, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Dadaab is in the NFD; it is a town with a UNHCR center within it. The area was traditionally mainly inhabited by Ogaden, with some Hawiye subclans [64]. This is what is meant. It is conflating the traditional residents with displaced persons from the south, who are largely Rahanweyn and Bantu per HRW [65]. There's a somewhat similar situation in Kakuma; however, the people there are predominantly from South Sudan [66]. In Kismayo, the IDPs are almost all Bantu [67]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Um Ok. It's odd that Kismayo's IDPs are Bantu let lone 20% of the city. Somalis also account for 1/7 in Aden in Yemen. As for the city, it seems quite different. It appears that during the 1800's Aden already had a significant Somali population.[68]AcidSnow (talk) 19:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Interestingly, some Bantu elders claim that they are the majority in most provinces in the south, and that they were the original inhabitants there as well as in the entire Great Lakes region. This is of course an exaggeration; the Eyle and other related hunter-gatherer populations were the actual autochthones. However, Bantus do certainly have a large presence there now, and in neighbouring territories too. At the turn of the 20th century, the migrants in Aden were primarily ethnic Somalis; Harti, Isaaq and Dir merchants, teachers, sailors and clerics from the north. Men like Faisal Hawar and Ismail Ali Ismail are descended from such adventurers. Ethnic Somalis in general would also regularly make the Hajj pilgrimage. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:11, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting! That's quote a foolish claim. I even read one book that states that the Bantu had some kind of kingdom in the valleys. Do the Bantu plan to return to Somalia? What about those that never left? Shall they return to Tanzania, Mozambique, etc?
Old Mogadishu
Anyways, do you of any development maps of Mogadishu? Like what they plan to build in the city. I found one Bosasso. I would prefer that they stop doing anything in Old Mogadishu. From what I have seen in Google Maps they have constructed a road that goes around Old Mogadishu. Hopefully they stop that and restore the broken areas. It would also be good of they constructed similar buildings around Old Mogadishu instead of apartments and high rise buildings. They can do that stuff stuff far from Old Mogadishu. Have Somalis ever heard of city planning? On Google Maps you can see well developed grid of houses but if you go two feet there are like 7 freaking houses on top of each other lol!
Finally, do you know how big Old Mogadshu is and what parts make the oldest of it? AcidSnow (talk) 20:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, genetics has pretty much dispelled the notion of an ancient aboriginal Bantu population north of the Great Lakes. It has, however, confirmed the antiquity and distinctness of the Omotic groups in the Horn. At any rate, it would indeed be best if the remaining ancient structures in Old Mogadishu were take care of. The Italians razed parts of Hamar Jajab when they were building the airport there, and they weren't the first. That's actually how it got its name ("Smashed Up Hamar"). A good part of the old city is also buried under sands dunes, like in Essina. Perhaps this is an archaeological blessing, as in Egypt and Sudan. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:00, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed! Are you sure you mean the airport? Hamar Jajab is not near the airport. Even then couldn't they have built around it? Why is the Old Poert soooo small. It looks like chicken legs compared to thd New Port lol. Anyways, old Mogadishu does not even touch sand other than Lido so what so you mean? AcidSnow (talk) 21:15, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also is Jabab part of old Mogadishu? AcidSnow (talk) 21:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There's an eponymous district named after that old part of the city. See Jama for more on the ancient, buried Hamar Jajab [69]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 18:15, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Bari sultanate
Hi AcidSnow. There was apparently a sultanate in Bari around the time that the Warsangali Sultanate was established. Would you happen to know the names of its various Sultans? Also, what were their aristocratic and court titles? Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 17:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Arameans in Israel
You wrote: "This has already been explained" Where was that explained? On the article talk page it has only "discussion" with people with the idea to make all Christians in the region only Assyrians (or at least to make Assyrian a pan-ethnicity) and people who see no problem to have that specific article Arameans in Israel. (I and most of the Maronites that I know accept the reality that we Maronites have primarily Phoenician descent mixed with Aramean and Ghassanid Arab blood lineage.) Thanks in advance. MaronitePride (talk) 04:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You don't seem to understand at all. Try reading all the statements made there again. While you're at it stop accusing me of vandalism and POV editing. It's simply annoying and insulting. Anyways, there is no major genetic difference between Christian and Muslim Lebanese people. No group is more "Phoenician" than another. AcidSnow (talk) 12:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"You don't seem to understand at all. Try reading all the statements made there again." I've read it before and a second time as you suggested but the issues seems to be still too far from "explained" and no consensus at all. (one point supports Assyrian pan-ethnicity for all Christian in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, etc. and unilaterally suggesting disamb., the other suggests to wait for 1 year to restate the content).
"Anyways, there is no major genetic difference between Christian and Muslim Lebanese people. No group is more "Phoenician" than another." Exactly! That's what I am thinking. (we Maronites have primarily Phoenician descent, as most of the Lebanese people, mixed with Aramean and Ghassanid Arab blood lineage and No Assyrian blood, even though Assyrianists never stop this propaganda.)
Just read this generic evidence that No group is more "Phoenician" than another: In a 2013 interview the lead investigator, Pierre Zalloua, pointed out that genetic variation preceded religious variation and divisions:"Lebanon already had well-differentiated communities with their own genetic peculiarities, but not significant differences, and religions came as layers of paint on top. There is no distinct pattern that shows that one community carries significantly more Phoenician than another."[3]
Far more than one person has supported the change to a disambiguation page. To claim otherwise is preposterous. As for not doing so, only one user agrees other than you. The other users vote is worthless since their just another sock of a banned user. AcidSnow (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Far more than one person has supported the change to a disambiguation page. To claim otherwise is preposterous." OK, let's count the people in the talk page ;)
1. Shmayo (supports disamb.) 2. GreyShark (oppose and wants to wait) 3. Ashurbanippal (user banned) 4. TmG12 (sock puppet of Ashurbanippal)
"Far more than one person has supported the change" Do we have to count user Shmayo (supports disamb.) twice ? It seems your claim is preposterous. Please explain where did you see Far more than one person has supported the change. I see the result of 1:1 (Shmayo : GreyShark)
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