Wikipedia:Teahouse

RudolfRed, a Teahouse host

Welcome to the Teahouse!
Your go-to place for friendly help with using and editing Wikipedia.

Ask a question

Question forumMeet your hostsArticles to improveBecome a host

New to Wikipedia? See our tutorial for new editors or introduction to contributing page.
Note: Newer questions appear at the bottom of the Teahouse. Completed questions are archived within 2-3 days.

ns12

ns4

Help with "formal tone"

My draft biographical article, Draft:John Coate, was rejected for not having the "formal tone" expected of a Wikipedia article and for lacking appropriate sources. I was pretty careful to support any characterizations of the subject with appropriate sources (two books, two journal articles, five newspaper articles and one magazine article), so I could really use some more specific suggestions before starting to edit. Thanks for your help! Oldgirlpop (talk) 16:25, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Oldgirlpop Declined (not 'Rejected', which is more severe.) David notMD (talk) 16:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Oldgirlpop. "Pioneer" is a red flag. Such an assessment should be attributed to a reliable source instead of stated in Wikipedia's voice. "Fixing cars in Marin County in 1986" sounds like something from a human interest story, not an encyclopedia article, unless this is widely discussed in reliable sources, like Harrison Ford's carpentry work. The content about SFGate is all referenced to its parent company, his employer at the time. Independent sources should be used for assertions of importance. Also, more wikilinks are needed. I hope that this helps. Cullen328 (talk) 16:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I wondered if "pioneer" was a stumbling block. I have changed it. This gets really complicated, but the San Francisco Chronicle is editorially independent from SFGate and at the time Coate was hired, SFGate was not wholly owned by the Chronicle, but was a joint project of the Chronicle (then owned by the De Young family), the rival San Francisco Examiner (then owned by Hearst) and by KRON-TV (then owned by the De Youngs, but operated separately from their newspaper). So technically, the San Francisco Chronicle was not his employer. There has been a lot of reshuffling and consolidation of ownership of news organizations in the Bay Area since then, but some of this is covered on the Wikipedia page for the Chronicle if you really want to get into the weeds. Oldgirlpop (talk) 17:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Noted! :-) Oldgirlpop (talk) 17:25, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Oldgirlpop, The Chronicle was the part owner of SFGate and had an interest in saying nice things about its subsidiary and a departing employee of that subsidiary. No experienced Wikipedia editor would accept these as independent sources. Cullen328 (talk) 18:05, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) @Oldgirlpop: The most pressing concern is to prove John Coate is "notable" in Wikipedia’s sense of the term. That means you should dig up sources that are simultaneously (1) independent of the subject (interviews or stuff where he is quoted do not count), (2) reliable (newspaper articles are generally OK, blog posts are generally not), and (3) deals with the subject at length (a small announcement that "X resigns from company Y, is replaced by Z" does not count). From a cursory look, your draft does not seem to contain such sources. If you cannot find such sources, I advise you to immediately stop editing the draft, because all your hard work will be wasted.

Now, let’s assume you find such sources. Then, we need to make sure that everything the article says is cited to a source. For that purpose the requirement is a tad lower, we only require sources that are reliable, that is, that meet point (2) but not necessarily (1) and (3). In that respect, it seems to me that the current draft is doing OK.

Finally, we turn to tone issues. That is definitely the lowest issue on the list, because it is fixable. As it stands, your draft resembles a hagiography rather than a neutral biography. Consider the very first sentence: John Coate (born ca. 1951) is an American pioneer in creating online communities.. What does "pioneer" mean? Nothing, but it elicits warm feelings in the reader (that’s the plan, anyway). That is what we call a peacock term - a term with low information but high positive content. The rest of the draft also tends to paint John Coate in a positive light, even if there are no egregious passages. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 17:00, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

My sources include two books, two journal articles and a magazine article; are those OK? I have added a third academic citation of his essay "Cyberspace Innkeeping." I understand concerns about the use of San Francisco Chronicle articles, but as I explained in my comment above, the Chronicle was not his employer: SFGate was, at the time, independently run under a joint operating agreement with a competing newspaper. (There has been a lot of consolidation in ownership in the Bay Area since then.) SFGate is still independently operated, but is now owned by the same media company that purchased the Chronicle in the early 2000s. Oldgirlpop (talk) 17:32, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Oldgirlpop, at this point, the lead section does not adequately summarize the body of the draft. Please read WP:LEAD. Cullen328 (talk) 18:15, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Someone else has also been editing this, so I'm not sure what version you saw, but this has been significantly beefed up. Oldgirlpop (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Just a point about social norms on Wikipedia, Oldgirlpop: it is entirely acceptable to edit articles created by others, even drafts. The fact that multiple experienced editors have taken an interest in your draft is actually a very good sign, because presumably they think it has a good chance of passing review. Most drafts are not edited until a reviewer decides to accept them.

While Cullen328 is correct that the lead should match the body, failure to do so is certainly not a blocker to bring the article in mainspace. Sources might still be (see below), but otherwise I think it could be resubmitted. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Side discussion about whether "successful" is neutral or not

Also, I think Cullen328’s edit here is not a good example to follow - it added the definitely non-neutral wording He later helped create (...) a successful online news site, which honestly surprises me for an editor of his caliber. Tigraan, I think that a news website that has been operating for 28 years and averages 25 million unique visitors per month can be called "successful" without violating neutrality. Cullen328 (talk) 16:57, 14 September 2022 (UTC) Cullen328, I refer you to the Bob Dylan example in WP:PEACOCK. I certainly think Bob Dylan is a brilliant songwriter, and I certainly think a local news outlet with 25M unique visitors per month is successful; but we are supposed to give only the facts to our readers, not lead them to those interpretations. TigraanClick here for my talk page ("private" contact) 08:25, 15 September 2022 (UTC) Tigraan, note that the word "successful" does not appear in WP:PEACOCK and all of the many examples given there are far more subjective. Just as we can say that a politician who won an election with 60% of the vote was successful or a mountaineer who reached an unclimbed summit was successful, we can say that a website that has operated for decades and is visited by many millions of people each month is also successful. Cullen328 (talk) 15:32, 15 September 2022 (UTC) To avoid cluttering the Teahouse, I will take the discussion to Cullen’s talk page. TigraanClick here for my talk page ("private" contact) 15:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Oldgirlpop: If you think you have some sources that pass all three criteria I outlined above, I suggest you post a short note on the talk page (Draft talk:John Coate) listing the best three of them (why three? read WP:THREE). If necessary, include some details about what the source says where: if it is a 300-page book it is courteous to tell that the relevant materialtc is on pages 147 and 253, and use short representative excerpts. Listing the notability-granting sources is not mandatory, but it will tremendously help reviewers in evaluating the article in gray cases.

In general, books (not published by vanity presses) and magazine articles (in respectable venues) pass criteria #2 (reliability), but not necessarily #1 (independence) if they are written by the subject or coworkers etc. or #3 if they only briefly mention the subject.

Finally, please note that Wikipedia’s meaning of "independence" is rather expansive. One could probably argue that a piece published by Greenpeace is not independent when it talks about the World Wide Fund for Nature, because even if the two organizations are entirely separate, they still share some general goals.

Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Coate's role in creating community on the WELL is discussed in non-vanity books by journalists Katie Hafner (New York Times) and Gal Beckerman (The Atlantic) and academic Fred Turner (Stanford); I've added representative excerpts and cited them in the draft. I've given three examples of academic citations of Coate's essay. Other material is from Wired Magazine and the Ukiah and Santa Rosa newspapers. If you think this is sufficient, could I resubmit? Oldgirlpop (talk) 18:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

how do you place user-boxes?

i'd like to but i'm not sure how to please tell me 2006toyotacorrola (talk) 10:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

hi 2006toyotacorrola and welcome to the teahouse! you can just insert the userbox template onto your userpage like any other template, like such: {{User en}}, which'll display as such:

enThis user is a native speaker of the English language.

for actually arranging your userboxes to look neat, you could use more templates like {{Babel}} which is mostly focused for language-related userboxes like the above (although works with any), or you could use a table to arrange them like I did over at User:Melecie/userbox list if you want to add many of them (although tables are hard to get used to so you may wanna borrow my code for the meantime, also don't get carried away by userboxes by the way!) happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 10:34, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@2006toyotacorrola: If you want them in a vertical column, you could also use the {{Userboxtop}} and {{Userboxbottom}} templates. The "See also" section of those templates' pages list some other templates used to arrange the boxes. Deor (talk) 11:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Check out my User:A diehard editor/More userboxes page for a look at how I arranged my userboxes into neat rows. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 21:33, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I wrote an item that was not accepted. I didn't understand the reason for rejection

The reason given to me is “It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. ”But this reason is not clear. Please take a look.

Draft:Wang Hu (ShanDong) thank you Lovely little star (talk) 10:12, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

hi @Lovely little star and welcome to the teahouse! I can't check the sources since I'm on my phone and can't translate them easily, but what you need here are reliable sources (sources from publishers that are known for accuracy and fact-checking. news sites would probably do well) that are independent (aren't influenced by the company, so a company's pages about itself, or other press releases or sponsored content will not be usable). ask yourself: has the subject been the focus of any news articles that talk about them and their history? happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 10:19, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lovely little star: Firstly, the draft was not rejected, it was declined, which means you can work on it and submit again. Draft:Wang Hu (businessman) was created and it was declined two times; the first reason is that it wasn't written from a neutral point of view and the second is that it lacks reliable sources. I'm sure some messages were left on your talk page which was supposed to guide you, but you went ahead to create another Draft:Wang Hu (ShanDong) which was later moved to draft space. Is there a reason why you want to create this article so badly? Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 11:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Sir, I want to write this draft because I cannot continue to write other drafts when I encounter problems, so I don't know why I will encounter such problems next time? I think we must understand the reason to understand a thing? Can have a deeper understanding of this thing. Secondly, if you can provide an article about the important report that is independent of the theme, so that I can understand the news report more intuitively. I never quite understand this. thank you Lovely little star (talk) 02:16, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I have merged the two drafts together, and declined it again after examining the sources cited. Except for one possible source, they don't comply with Wikipedia:Golden rule. ~Anachronist (talk) 13:02, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lovely little star The blue words in the "decline notice" are clickable links, with much more information. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:31, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Changing name of page

Hello,

I am trying to edit my workplace's Wikipedia pages, however I'm finding it difficult to edit.

'Brooksby Melton College' and 'Stephenson College' (Coalville) have now merged and now fall under "SMB College Group" (www.smbcollegegroup.ac.uk).

I would like to create a Wikipedia page for each campus, so Stephenson Campus, Melton Campus, Brooksby Campus. Or, we are happy to have just one page as SMB College Group with sections about each individual campus.

I have edited Stephenson, but it will not allow me to change 'Brooksby Melton College'.

Please can someone help me with this request?

Thank you

Becca Rjsmb (talk) 15:40, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Rjsmb see WP:PAID and WP:COI. Please do not edit the articles directly as they will likely not be encyclopedic and neutral. Sungodtemple (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Becca, and welcome to the Teahouse. It sounds as if you have the (very common) misconception that Wikipedia's articles about your workplace in some way7 belong to or are for the benefit of your employer. They are not: they do not belong to them, they are not controlled by them, they will not necessarily contain what they want them to say (and they may end up containing material your employers would definitely not want them to contain, as long as it has been published by a reliable source).

Having said that: once you have made the mandatory declaration of your status as a paid editor you are welcome to use the edit request mechanism to suggest changes to the articles. It will be uninvolved editors who make the decision on what changes shoukd be made, though. ColinFine (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Just to confirm that anything you post publicly allows you to be traced IRL online (Wikipedia is not a variant of social media). This caught my eye as I know one of the past-principals at Bridge Road, although I've not seen him for around 20 years.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:13, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@Rjsmb As ColinFine says, please don't think of this as "I am trying to edit my workplace's Wikipedia pages"; instead, think of this as "I'm trying to edit Wikipedia's articles about my workplace". That slight shift in thought will put you in the right mindset.

And then we'll tell you, as ColinFine did, that you are not allowed to directly edit Wikipedia's articles about your workplace (etc. etc.). Edit requests are the way to go, and as long as you supply references for your suggested changes as the instructions say, if your suggestions are neutral in tone and free of puffery, they will probably be made. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:43, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Look, I think you're slightly losing sight of what's important here. If the two colleges have merged, it's in Wikipedia's interest to reflect that, so Rjsmb should be thanked for bringing the matter to our attention here. Andreas JN466 11:30, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the articles are in such poor shape, with an entire lack of secondary sources, that it's not clear whether our notability standards are met, merged or no. I don't blame @Rjsmb for having assumed they could simply add much more information from primary sources and change the titles appropriately; if they still want to work on this project, perhaps they know of published, reliable, secondary sources that could be used to create one decent article on SMB College Group as a whole. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 12:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Rjsmb, @JN466 You are right; we want the information in WP to be accurate. The policies are in place to ensure objectivity and verifiability, and yes, we should express our thanks to Rjsmb for helping WP achieve its goals. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 16:54, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Link capitalization

What should be the case of links? Can someone send me a WP page on how I should approach this? Thanks Maccore Henni user talk Respond using tb, please. 21:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

What kind of link are you talking about? Probably either Wikilinks and external links will answer your question. ColinFine (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Is what I did for the link on ref. 58 here okay? 22:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mac Henni (talk • contribs)

Diff link for convenience: here. Are you talking about capitalizing the title of the link within the citation template? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:11, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes 22:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mac Henni (talk • contribs)

No else has followed up, so I'll give my not-so-expert opinion: if the original title is in allcaps, I usually adjust it to title case before entering it into the citation template. Otherwise I maintain the case of the original, even if it's not title case. I don't think an actual rule about such things has been laid down anywhere (yet). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Resubmitting an article

Please reconsider my article, Draft:Keystone Gallery(Keystone Gallery) is... (Kansas fossil museum), which was rejected by @Greenman on 9.2.22. I heavily edited the article in response to @Greenman's reasons for refusal.

I replied to @Greenman as follows: @Greenman - Thank you for your feedback. I have deleted all references to the museum's own website and also the ad-sounding descriptions in the content. This is a legitimate place for tourists to visit, so I left the contact info at the bottom (which includes the website), since that is similar to other wikipedia pages that are legitimate sites. Also, the activities of the owners are well documented (appearance on the NOVA series, for example), so I left those kinds of sources. Please reconsider this submission. Let me know if I need to place it somewhere else for reconsideration. Thanks MelTeeEditing (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I do not know if it is invisible to Wikipedia editors since it has been deleted. Please help. Thanks! MelTeeEditing (talk) 21:39, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @MelTeeEditing, welcome to the Teahouse. If you wish to resubmit your article, all you need to do is click the blue "Resubmit" button at the bottom of the pink "Submission declined" box atop your draft. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:46, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @MelTeeEditing. I’m wondering if the last paragraph, giving the address, contact information, admission and hours is needed. You have provided the Keystone Gallery’s website as an External link, and that site should give all that information. Removing the paragraph will lessen the article appearing to be promotional. Best wishes on your Wikipedia endeavors. Karenthewriter (talk) 00:37, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@MelTeeEditing Aldo, things like operating hours can change. Readers are better off checking the museum's web site instead of relying on people keeping the Wikipedia article updated forever. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:46, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

As this is now at Draft:Keystone Gallery, all of that information should be removed from your User page. See WP:UP for what is appropriate for a User page. David notMD (talk) 01:06, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Submitting a missing topics list?

Can anyone tell me how to submit a missing topics list? I created a few of these for WP:MISSING some years ago but one list seems to have been missed. The WP:MISSING member who created them for me isn't active anymore so I'm not sure what to do next. I left a message at the WP:MISSING talk page but never got a reply. Is this something I would submit to Wikipedia:Articles for creation? Thanks. 173.162.220.17 (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP editor. Such a list would not be suitable for AfC, as it's not intended to be a mainspace article. If WP:MISSING has gone inactive, then I'd recommend either posting the list at WikiProject Professional wrestling (since that seems to be the subject involved) or adding to the list of requested articles. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Identification of Nationality of Historical Figures

This might sound nit-picky, but for example Jonathan Edwards is identified as 'American' even though no such country existed when he was born, but Ukrainian Engineer Stephen Timoshenko is identified in the opening paragraph of the text of his article as 'Russian' because Ukraine was occupied by Imperial Russia at the time of his birth. When you search 'Timoshenko' the choice for him is 'Ukrainian Engineer' which I think is more correct. Being somewhat familiar with his work and story before I read the Wikipedia article, I'd always thought of him as Ukrainian. I think there are some similar inconsistencies with the biography of Sholem Aleichem. Are there any guidelines for what nationality historical persons are primarily identified as? Thanks in advance for the help. Woogawoogawooga (talk) 00:02, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Woogawoogawooga. We have several articles about people named Jonathan Edwards. If you are talking about Jonathan Edwards (the younger), then he became an American citizen in 1776 as a result of the Declaration of Independence and was an American citizen his entire adult life. As for Stephen Timoshenko, he was born in the Russian empire and later became an American citizen. There was no independent Ukrainian nation during his lifetime. The article correctly says that he was of Ukrainian ethnicity. The lead sentence of a biography should identify citizenship in almost all cases. Ethnicity comes later. Cullen328 (talk) 01:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

OK! Easier to ask the question than to guess the pattern. Thanks! Woogawoogawooga (talk) 02:51, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

So wait, now I'm confused. Luis A. Ferré's page says that he's "Puerto Rican Engineer" but by your guidelines -- citizenship -- it should say in the first instance that he's an "American Engineer", right? Because Puerto Ricans are American CITIZENS. I should correct that right away! Woogawoogawooga (talk) 03:43, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Why are you confused, Woogawoogawooga? Do you really expect to encounter consistency among 6.5 million articles created by volunteers with varying degrees of familiarity with policies, guidelines and the Manual of Style? I agree with your edit to Luis A. Ferré, especially since he was a long time advocate of Puerto Rican statehood. But the situation of some other Puerto Rican residents is more complex. As our article Puerto Rican citizenship and nationality says, Despite possessing federal statutory citizenship, residents of Puerto Rico have no representation in the US Congress, are unable to vote in the Electoral College, and do not have full protection under the US Constitution, until they come to reside in a U.S. state. Some call their status "separate but unequal". Under these circumstances, I think that is appropriate to call dedicated Puerto Rican nationalists like Lolita Lebrón and Pedro Albizu Campos as Puerto Rican instead of American. This is why I said "in almost all cases" in my initial response. There are no hard and fast rules and pedantry is discouraged. Good editorial judgment is encouraged. Cullen328 (talk) 05:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

How does the status of Puerto Ricans differ from the status of Ukrainians under Russian Imperial rule, then?

And, yes, a Manual of Style would be a reasonable reference. My PhD is from the University of Chicago, after all -- the home of the Chicago Manual of Style.

Were you hoping to intellectually bully me with your pedantry? Isn't that discouraged? Woogawoogawooga (talk) 23:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Woogawoogawooga: Wikipedia does have a manual of style: WP:MOS. (It is veeeeery long.) In particular, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#cite_note-1 might be of interest. As far as I know, there is no general rule that applies to all sort of nationalities, but both cases where it was formalized (Spain, the UK) ended up on the same rule: "use whatever the subject uses as self-identification if they have one clear preference; failing that, what most reliable sources use if there is something predominant; failing that, establish local consensus". It would certainly be wise to follow the same process here.

I would add that changing articles to prove a point is disruptive (and specifically forbidden), and escalating verbal rhethoric (cf. your last sentence) is not a good way to get a productive discussion. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:18, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

How about searching users on English Wikipedia with "U:(user)"

In Chinese Wikipedia, when you search like "U:AT" (AT is an administrator of Chinese Wikipedia) and enter, the result will take you to the AT's user page. How about the English Wikipedia? Can I just type "U:(user)" and it takes me to the user page, too? SinSyuan~Give big hands to future! 05:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I tried. Doesn't seem to work. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 06:05, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Sinsyuan. Each language version of Wikipedia is run separately and independently. On English Wikipedia, you can reach a userpage by entering "User:(username)" in the search box. My userpage is at User: Cullen328. Cullen328 (talk) 06:39, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Reply to @Cullen328 and Vortex3427: Got it, thank you. SinSyuan~Give big hands to future! 07:27, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Sinsyuan: The Chinese U: is a namespace alias controlled by mw:Manual:$wgNamespaceAliases in https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php whics says:

'wgNamespaceAliases' => [
...
'+zhwiki' => [
		'U' => NS_USER, // T183711

It was requested in phab:T183711. The English Wikipedia has made no such request. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Signing comments with tildes necessary in official app?

Hello, hoping to find clarity:

as a noob I've been trying to sign my comments with "Chiselinccc (talk) 07:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)" as I had seen advised, however when I forgot to in a talk page thread, I noticed that my signature and timestamp showed up anyways.

I'm using the Wikipedia android app, does this "automatically sign" comments for logged in users or something? Just wanted to check, as most of my small edits will be from the mobile app and it will be nice if I don't have to worry about signatures there!

Thanks and cheers! Chiselinccc (talk) 07:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Chiselinccc Welcome to the Teahouse! It depends on a couple of things. If you use "edit source" to reply within a thread like this one, in general you need to sign with the four tildes, and indent according to conventions, although if you forget there is a bot that usually manages to add your signature. In my experience it can fail, especially on busy Talk Pages like this one. However, in recent months there is a better way: use the "reply" at the end of the previous person's entry and you'll get a real-time view of how your addition will look, together with an automatic signature/timestamp and indentations. Also, you'll never run into edit conflicts. If you are creating a new section on someone's Talk Page, the software automatically assumes you want to use this new method and again will sign for you. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

আমির

মলিলক — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.202.124 (talk) 07:47, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

This seems to be Bengali, but Google translate is entirely unhelpful - perhaps it's a name? IP editor, it would be more helpful if you could communicate in English, or - if you prefer Bengali - you could try Bengali Wikipedia. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:55, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I know Bengali. I think he is trying to write his name here. Mehedi Abedin 23:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

A75

Can I edit the A75 Wikipedia 212.140.250.170 (talk) 07:55, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Go ahead, you should be able to FishandChipper 🐟🍟 13:14, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@FishandChipper, they can't - A75 road has been protected due to disruption by various IPs, including the one above. Quoting one of the reverting editors: "unsourced and incorrect changes to route details, and flooding of infobox with small towns on the route and larger cities many miles from the route". 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Question regarding Chinese Zodiac Signs

I was really hoping that someone would be able to answer this question that I've asked here, since it would be a huge help, not only for myself but for others as well. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 08:31, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

C.Syde65 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You could mark your comment with {{help me}}(as it appears when viewing this page, not in the edit window where I have added coding to suppress its function) to draw attention to it- though I'm not sure how likely you are that someone knowledgeable will reply. 331dot (talk) 08:35, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Which archive date to use?

Hi Teahouse, I've been doing some gnome work archiving links to avoid link rot, but in many cases the sources are already present on archive.org and have been captured multiple times. In these circumstances, which capture date should be used? The most recent, closest to publication date, something else entirely? WP:CITE and associated pages don't seem to have the answer, or at least if they do I can't find it. StartGrammarTime (talk) 09:40, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@StartGrammarTime I was involved in a discussion on this now archived at WP:Help_desk/Archives/2022 August 25#Older or newer archive URLs.3F and I'd still advise as stated there. the important thing is to ensure the capture on the archive date used does actually contain the material that needs to be cited: many later captures give "404" errors or similar. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thank you for the link! I have been making sure the captures contain the referenced material, since avoiding link rot by supplying pre-rotted links seemed a bit...counterproductive. StartGrammarTime (talk) 10:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism Help

Hi. Someone keeps editing the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian to include the text "Death to the war criminal state Russia!". Every time I undo it, it appears again. Any assistance? ButterCashier (talk) 10:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier it seems as though the page has now been protected so only trusted users can edit it. Blanchey (talk) 11:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier, what the previous response meant was that only people with a certain amount of time and edits on Wikipedia can edit the page.

Asparagusus (interaction) 13:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hrishikesh_Suryawanshi

how to tackle or edit this page so this would be apporved Hsuryakesh (talk) 12:58, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I suggest you read Help:Your first article, and take note that an article requires reliable, independent sources that demonstrate that the topic has notability. But creating an article is very difficult for new users, so I suggest that you spend some time editing before trying to create one. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 13:17, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Please help: Libelous content

The section Digital Currency Group#Allegations of lending malfeasance is libelous, poorly sourced and needs to be removed. It is based on a Medium blog by an anonymous non-expert with 100 followers, which by itself is an unacceptable source according to WP:RSSELF. Medium is a platform similar to WordPress or Tumblr - while some editorial sites use it, in this case the blogger is anonymous and states in the article they relied on their own original research, and that the article was written as “speculation” based on primary sources they interpreted, thus failing WP:RELIABLE. I have a COI as a paid consultant for DCG and don’t want to violate WP:COI - are editors able to assist? Thanks much.CertifiedTurtle (talk) 16:17, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Cullen removed it before I got to it. PICKLEDICAE🥒 16:23, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, CertifiedTurtle. I agree with you that the source is glaringly unreliable and accordingly have removed the section. I want to caution you about using words like "libelous", which may be construed as a legal threat. Also, libel applies only to human beings, not corporations. Cullen328 (talk) 16:25, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Great, thank you for your help! CertifiedTurtle (talk) 16:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

SuggestBot

Hello, does any of you know how to customize User:SuggestBot so that it can only suggest certain types of articles (eg. video games, movies, music). If so, how? Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 17:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

PS. Do you know if I have SuggestBot set up correctly? Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 17:14, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Pizzaplayer219: Yes, you can ask SuggestBot to suggest articles in certain categories. See User:SuggestBot/Requests#Suggestions_based_on_specific_pages RudolfRed (talk) 17:18, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

But can I do it for every time suggestbot suggests something automatically. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 17:43, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Pizzaplayer219, I don't know if this will answer your question, but I keep a copy of my SuggestBot code in a text file. When I want new suggestions, I paste that code into my Talk page. When the suggestions arrive, the bot deletes the code. When I want more suggestions, I just paste the code again, after which I get an entirely new batch of suggestions. I don't know any way of automating the process, but it only takes a few seconds to do it manually. Mike Marchmont (talk) 18:50, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Newpaper article from 1980 about Thomas Mac Laren the architect

Hi - I am new to all this. I am going through boxes from my parents house. In it is an article about Thomas Mac Laren from the Gazette Telegraph pages 18D and 19D on Saturday, March 29, 1980 There is a picture of him in the article and designs for two buildings. I don't know how to connect any of this to his page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_MacLaren Thanks for any guidance. 2603:6080:F802:2000:BD06:3CF0:6C65:BC6A (talk) 17:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP user, welcome to the Teahouse. If you think there is important information in the newspaper article which is not already included at Thomas MacLaren, feel free to paraphrase that information and add it to our article, citing the newspaper article as your source. See referencing for beginners for instructions on how to create inline citations. If that's too much trouble, you could simply start a discussion on the talk page - Talk:Thomas MacLaren - and post the name of the newspaper, article title, and date, for other folks to look up and use in the Wikipedia article if they so choose. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor. To add onto the answer 199.208.172.35 gave you, citing is enough; please don't scan and upload the articles on here or Wikipedia's sister project Commons as there's a chance they may be held under some copyright. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Custom signatures

Hi Teahouse. I want to customize my signature so STEM is one color and info is another, but can't figure it out. I found [[1]] but it doesn't have any examples except showing how to make the talk part of the signature uppercase. STEMinfo (talk) 19:47, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at my signature. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 19:52, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Try this signature: [[User:STEMinfo|<span style="color: red;">STEM</span><span style="color: green;">info</span>]] ([[User talk:STEMinfo|talk]]) WPEditor42 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both Jéské Couriano and WPEditor42. There's a lot to learn here that's not very intuitive. STEMinfo (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy pings: @Jéské Couriano:@WPEditor42: - @STEMinfo: - you can notify other editors when you nmention them by using this code {{ping|STEMinfo}} that I used to ping you. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Article rejected on the biggest, cultural event of Hindu religion

I created a neutral, factual article on the most notable & historic cultural event of Hindu religion. This article was rejected probably because of the editor were not fully aware of the notability of the event. Other figures such as Charles Darwin, Alfred Russel, John Cage etc. have their pages of 100th year celebration. Darwin has several pages for the same event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Centennial_Celebration_(1959) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Russel_Wallace_centenary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemoration_of_Charles_Darwin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cage_Day

Most Hindus in India experience the Western imperial mindset continues belittle Hindu culture and symbols of Hindu culture.

I fail to understand how the biggest Hindu cultural celebration and 100th anniversary celebration is rejected and singer, explorer and other such figures pages are accepted. I would like to understand the decisions made by Wiki editors who reject Hindu pages. Pritinagpur (talk) 21:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@Pritinagpur can you link the article? It likely is a matter of you not including enough sources rather than the event itself not being notable. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 21:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Apparently the various attempts at creating the article have led to deletion and salting - see Pramukh swami maharaj shatabadi mahotsav and User:Pritinagpur/Pramukh swami maharaj shatabadi mahotsav. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:36, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

And I assume the individual being celebrated is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:40, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I see. The birthday of this guy Pramukh Swami Maharaj. He is definitely notable but his birthday being significant is up for debate. He is much more recent than all the people listed there so this holiday might become significant in the future but probably isn't notable in itself right now Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 21:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

It definitely isn't the the biggest, cultural event of Hindu religion, my quick googling says Diwali is the more likely candidate. But it might be the biggest cultural event of the Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 21:58, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

How many references need?

Hello, Teahouse. I am editing a Draft of an article where I am looking for references for artists. What should I do if it is difficult (or even impossible) to find a Reference for a artist? Thank you in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crystallizedh (talk • contribs) 21:20, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Crystallizedh, welcome to the Teahouse. If a source is, indeed, impossible to find, then the information should not be included. Verifiability is one of our core policies. Distinguishing between "difficult" and "impossible" is tricky - in the end, if you can't find a source, and you're not sure it can be sourced at all, don't include it. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:32, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Crystallizedh and welcome to the Teahouse! If it is difficult or impossible to find a reference for an artist, then it is probably not worth adding to your list. Other than that, it looks good! Happy Editing! Helloheart (talk) 21:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

A) Do not add an artist if there is not an existing Wikipedia article about that person (hence names appear blue). B) Wikilinking to neoclassical metal is good, but your list article would be improved by the lede adding details and refs, copied from that article (with attribution in the Edit summary). David notMD (talk) 22:46, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Benny Hendel

The article underwent many improvements, has many footnotes, is based on reliable and verifiable sources, especially from the most important newspapers Maariv, Yediot Aharonot, Haaretz etc and other well known written media in Israel, it s true most of them in Hebrew, but this is the language in that West-Asian country. it is true that radiobroadcasting is now a more neglected domain, and sources about radio broadcasting in the years 1990-2000 are not many,there are in newspapers, in some books, and someones also in youtube (the voice of the broadcaster and narrator) that are not accepted in wikipedia. The article is about a radio personality, interviewer and author of scientific and cultural programs very appreciated in Israel for a long period of time, also an appreciated translator of English and American literature (which would be a significant item for English Wikipedia)- including literature for children and poetry (among the sources are mentioned reviews by important Israeli writers, who appreciated his translations, published in serious publishing houses. It seems not so fair not to accept this article in the English wikipedia. The article exists in the Hebrew Wikipedia and in the Romanian Wikipedia which have good standards. Ewan2 (talk) 20:36, 15 September 2022 (UTC) What else one has to do for to make the article acceptable for English Wikipedia? Ewan2 (talk) 20:50, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Ewan2 and welcome to the Teahouse! I looked over your article and the problem isn't the sources, it's how many you have. You will need to add more references (but also from creditable sources) in order to meet the requirements. Then you can try resubmitting it. Happy Editing! Helloheart (talk) 00:32, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ewan2, @Hellohealth For "creditable sources" please refer to reliable sources. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 17:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Helloheart Pinging the right user. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Content

I am Eunice Alejandra López Sánchez known as Eunice Shade, mexican-nicaraguan writer. Since months ago I asked to erase a page of my work because I do not know how the page ended in hands of another people that I do not know, without my authorization. And today appears this: https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eunice_Shade&action=history&year=2021&month=12&tagfilter= I would like this to be erased. I would like also tell you that I HAVE NOT authorized any creative commons license of my work or something like it. I also would like to tell you that this another page of Wikipedia is not authorized by me and I would like this page be erased from internet because there is false material: :https://www.eswiki.org/wiki/Eunice_Shade I also would like to know how to register my material on internet for free, photos, writings, etc I also would like to open a new page on Wikipedia with my own edition because I need to update my things as I say because it is my job. I will appreciate your help, Eunice. --Cisnedenieve (talk) 06:06, 15 September 2022 (UTC) Cisnedenieve (talk) 00:32, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Cisnedenieve and welcome to the Teahouse! I would try contacting one of these administrators and see what they can do. If they cannot do anything then I would find some reliable sources to fix the "false information" you found- but I would discourage this since Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view and you would have a conflict of interest. Wait for more replies on this post and then decide what to do. Happy editing! Helloheart (talk) 00:36, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. It is incomplete content for that reason it is not true. I will be waiting for your help. Cisnedenieve (talk) 00:41, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Cisnedenieve - This is English Wikipedia. The links you provided are to content as Spanish Wikipedia (es.wikipedia). You have to raise your objections there. IF the content in question was at English Wikipedia, an article about a person does not require authorization from that person. Also, attempts at autobiography are not recommended (but not forbidden). If there are errors in the article, you would be advised to propose changes on the Talk page of the article rather than editing the article directly. David notMD (talk) 01:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

• @Cisnedenieve: Actually, David notMD was a bit hasty in reading the links.

The first link is indeed to Spanish Wikipedia, where it shows that the page about Eunice Shade was deleted about two months ago. The log page itself is likely to stay. The deletion reason is maybe a bit dubious ("editing test"? was this not a real article?) but I do not think you should care much about that.

The second one is to eswiki.org, a Wikipedia mirror (= a site that copy-pastes stuff from Wikipedia). Wikipedia (in English, Spanish, or in any other language), or the Wikimedia Foundation (the organization behind the Wikipedias), has no control over eswiki.org. You would have to take it up with them. Looking at their legal notice, they are probably German.

In general, nobody needs your permission to write about you. (On English Wikipedia we usually tend to delete borderline biography articles when asked to by the subject, but that’s a courtesy, not a legal requirement.) As far as I can tell, your works have not been posted under the creative commons license; text about you, but written by other persons (Wikipedia editors), has been posted under such a license. As far as I can tell, eswiki.org does comply with the license, and is therefore allowed to reuse es-Wikipedia’s content (even if es-Wikipedia has deleted it). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:07, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Can you review an Article I made?

I wrote an article and it got a C rating and I want to know how I can improve it. Can you recommend what I can do? Marshmallo3535 (talk) 01:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

COURTESY: Of the four articles you have created, only Bee Branch Creek (Iowa) is rated C-class. David notMD (talk) 01:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that is the one Im talking about. Sorry for not making it more clear. Marshmallo3535 (talk) 01:42, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Marshmallo3535. Let's take a look at the five sentence lead section of this article, which says The Bee Branch Creek is a waterway found in Dubuque, Iowa that flows into the Mississippi River. The drainage basin covers 50% of Dubuque's population or business. The city has modified it multiple times over the years to combat flooding. Along the creek are trails and playground equipment. The restoration project is expected to cost $230 million.. In the first sentence, "found" is extraneous. It implies that people need to go searching for it. The second sentence is strange because drainage basins are usually defined by geographic area instead of population or business. Did you mean "businesses"? The third sentence introduces some possibly notable content but does not follow through. The fourth sentence shifts dramatically to landscaping and playground matters, which I perceive as jarring and unwarranted. The fifth sentence addresses one restoration project as if it is the only one even though we are told in the third sentence that there have been multiple projects. We learn nothing about what the project hopes to accomplish, how it compares to previous projects, and only its projected budget. Those five sentences do not hold together as a coherent overview of the topic. Cullen328 (talk) 04:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks very much, I will work on it. Marshmallo3535 (talk) 12:56, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Autocorrect

When I enter a search term Autocorrect often alters what I wrote. What I do to avoid this is to type a letter, hit backspace, type the same letter again, then type the next letter, hit backspace again, etc. That usually works, but it's annoying. What else can be done? Is it possible to turn off autocorrect? 99.9.112.135 (talk) 06:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

As far as I am aware any autocorrection on Wikipedia is part of your browser or operating system, so you will need to consult that product's handbook about how to turn off autocompletion. Victor Schmidt (talk) 06:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Combining references used multiple times

Hey there!

I am trying to combine references used multiple times in my article. I read the citing error page but it's unclear. Can anyone help? Thank you.

Draft:Andre Soares (Brazilian-American writer, actor) A1ProtocolX (talk) 10:49, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@A1ProtocolX Welcome to the Teahouse. What you need are called "named references". See WP:Citing sources#Repeated citations for the details. Basically, at the first instance you use <ref name=Mychosenname> and subsequently use <ref name=Mychosenname/> (note the /> at the end of the second occurrence). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:00, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your response Mike! I read this article but where I'm not clear is that I used the citation generator in my article so all I have in my source data is a reflist tag and the references are within my text. How do I link those refnames to my citations? Thank you. A1ProtocolX (talk) 13:41, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@A1ProtocolX, I turned one of your citations into a named reference as an example. See what I did in this diff (you can revert my change once you've had a good look). You can use any word you want in place of "name", that's just a placeholder. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:57, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@A1ProtocolX I made an edit shown in this diff from which you should be able to see what needs to be done in general. I'll make some other comments on the draft on your Talk Page, as the Teahouse comments get archived rather quickly. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Need assistance with an article

I recently started my Wikipedia journey by writing a piece on Mr. Ravish Naresh(one of renowned startup founders in India). However, the article got rejected mentioning it as an advertisement. I am unsure which pointers/content made it look that way. Since this is my first time writing content on Wikipedia, it would be really helpful if someone can kindly guide me with the necessary adjustments which is needed to be edited.

I took reference from this article - Binny Bansal.

Article Link - Draft:Ravish Naresh

Looking forward towards your assistance.

Regards,

Deepankar Deepankarborokb (talk) 11:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

The main issues I can find with the article is that its very flowery and boasting which goes against WP:Peacock. You should try to use more neutral terms when writing to avoid this. Another point is that it feels like its written like an advertisment for Mr. Naresh's ventures with lines like "Khatabook became India's fastest-growing SaaS company that enables micro, small and medium businesses to increase efficiency and profitability through safe and secure digital solutions" sounding like they were taken directly from an advertisement. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 12:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@Deepankarborokb You might like to read WP:SOLUTIONS to see why that sort of language isn't appropriate. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

A nuance, but it was Declined, not Rejected, which is more severe. David notMD (talk) 12:50, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

It should also be noted that he may not even fall under WP:Notable, all of the articles you have cited are articles about his works and not actually about Naresh himself. He isn't even mentioned on the page Housing.com, a website he was supposedly a founder of. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 14:04, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Are citations still needed when cross-referencing a linked article which does contain them?

I recently added a subsection to an existing article, with a main article crossref at the start. The copy that I added was a short précis of the main article's key loints as it related to the article I was editing, but did not include the citations from the main article (Those in turn were named references so a simple cut/paste wasn't possible.

My addendum was reverted wholesale citing the lack of RS (while the linked main article is chokka with them), and I can't help but feel that it was a heavy-handed revert. More specifically, since the article in question involves religious critique of a sort, my WP:AGF-o-meter is flatlining, if you get my drift.

The referencing guide is not clear on how to handle this kind of cross-refencing situation. Any advice? Thanks!

AbominableIntelligence (talk) 14:07, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @AbominableIntelligence, welcome to the Teahouse. The short answer is: yes, you need to add citations. The long answer is: a link to another Wikipedia article does not count as a valid reference. Even if all the content you added is currently supported by refs in that other article, you don't know what will happen to that other article or those refs in the future; it may be rewritten, it may be deleted, the references that support the content you added may vanish in any number of ways. You should carry over any and all citations that support your content. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:16, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Ta, that makes sense. I'll go and grovel over the reflist then! AbominableIntelligence (talk) 14:22, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

What should I classify this article as?

Hi everyone, what should I classify the Nascimento (surname) article as - List, Start, Stub or C? It explains what is the surname Nascimento, what it means, some statistics and a list of notable people with the surname. WPEditor42 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@WPEditor42 It seems pretty clear that this is a WP:LIST article type, so that's the simplest and best classification. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:49, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thank you for your reply. I asked this because the article contains more than just a list. WPEditor42 (talk • contribs) 00:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@WPEditor42 I agree it has a bit more than a list but its Talk Page already has classification as "list" for both the Projects which have expressed an interest in it. I see no need to alter that previous assessment and it would be very difficult to give it one of the other classes (see WP:ASSESS) given the criteria mentioned there. My belief is that it is better to contribute to Wikipedia by adding material to articles rather than worrying about formal assessments. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Wounded Knee - incorrect listing

Hello - the page title here is incorrect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Battlefield The official name of this site, according to the National Archives Catalogue, is Wounded Knee National Historic Landmark. This is not a 'Battlefield' as the Native Americans were massacred here. I've confirmed the correct name with Sherry A. Frear, Chief & Deputy Keeper, National Register of Historic Places & National Historic Landmarks Program. How can I change the title of the page to be 'Wounded Knee National Historic Landmark' and remove the word 'Battlefield'? Thank you 173.23.252.19 (talk) 15:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Citation: Chief Frear (National Register of Historic Places) referred to the original application in her response to me. The original 551 page application and listing in the National Archives Catalogue is here: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/93204318 173.23.252.19 (talk) 15:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, welcome to the Teahouse. There seems to be conflicting information - this source and the property name in the National Register of Historic Places use "battlefield". The place to work this out would be the talk page; I see there have been several attempts to change the name recently, but no talk page discussion. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:32, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Seeking Assistance to Update Newfold Digital's Information On Wikipedia

Hello there!

I am seeking assistance on behalf of Newfold Digital (who is paying me, as their direct employee, to make edits, as disclosed on my user page) in updating our presence on the site to more accurately reflect our company’s structure with a properly-sourced article written from the ground up to describe our large web presence business and list our prominent subsidiaries.

I don’t think making edits to the current article will suffice, as it is simply a relabeled Endurance International Group (EIG) article, whereas Newfold Digital is comprised of several companies/company groups and is a new entity formed from those companies, rather than a rebranded EIG.

With that in mind, I am seeking to have that article reverted to merely describe the legacy EIG holdings and include a link to a new Newfold Digital article, which I would like to write and build out in a coherent and informative manner, without advertising/selling or reducing the article to a timeline of acquisitions.

I would love to partner with an experienced editor to help make these changes, and would greatly appreciate feedback from any editors who can guide me in the proper course of action.

I feel that Newfold Digital is a significant company and will be of interest to readers in the technology space, given the prominent companies in its portfolio, and am willing to spend whatever amount of time and effort is necessary to create an article that both matches Wikipedia’s standards and describes the company in a neutral way.

I would greatly appreciate any advice or direction the Wikipedia community is willing to provide! NewfoldComms (talk) 16:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I meant to include the article link above: Newfold Digital - Wikipedia NewfoldComms (talk) 16:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Your plan seems sound to me (though I would not myself be able to assist you): it's annoying when re-purposings like this wipe out historical information about the pre-merger company. But can I point out a couple of things.

Firstly, Wikipedia Account names are required to represent (and be used by) a single individual, and not be suggestive only of a corporate entity – see Wikipedia:Username policy. "NewfoldComms" probably falls foul of this, so you should think about getting it changed to something like "Bob at NewfoldComms".

Secondly, I wonder if the other component companies under the Newfold Digital umbrella have, or should have, their own pre-merger articles. If they do, fine. If they don't, and they can qualify as Notable, it would be satisfying if these could also be created, but of course it makes the task rather bigger. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.131.160 (talk) 16:46, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback and prompt response!

Regarding my account name, that was an oversight on my part, and I have submitted a username change request to get it changed to something in line with the rules.

As far as the component companies, it appears all of the major brands have their own articles. These will likely need updating in time (if only to include a link to the Newfold Digital article) and I am happy to work through that process as well. Listing all of the brands Newfold Digital owns might not be feasible or desirable, as many of these have a very low public profile. Mentioning only the notable brands would probably result in the best experience for the reader (and having all of the mentioned companies link back to their respective articles would indeed be satisfying).

I appreciate your insights! NewfoldComms (talk) 18:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @NewfoldComms, welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for being transparent and asking questions about how to do things according to The Rulez. Unfortunately, like my fellow IP editor above, there isn't much I can do in the way of partnership, but I can offer some recommendations.

First, study our sourcing requirements and article creation procedures carefully (HELP:YFA is a good place to start if you haven't seen it already). Second, I would recommend starting work on two drafts, one the "new" Newfold Digital article and the other the legacy EIG article. Once you think you've got them in good shape, ask around for opinions from editors - post on the talk page of the current article, at any relevant WikiProjects, and typically you can get some good feedback from folks here at the Teahouse. From there, I think your best bet would be submitting them both to Articles for Creation (with a note that you're essentially splitting the existing article) rather than going the edit request route, but others may have a different opinion. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:07, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your recommendation! I'll start by reviewing those requirements and then get to work on some drafts. The legacy EIG article could use some cleaning up (if only to resolve WP:PROSELINE), so the thought of creating drafts for both articles is appealing. I will submit those drafts for feedback when ready, as you suggest, and go from there.

I really appreciate you responding so quickly and with such helpful info! Thank you! NewfoldComms (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@NewfoldComms, no problem! Maybe I should note that you are not absolutely forbidden from editing the article - it's strongly suggested that you don't, and many editors will give you a virtual stinkeye for it, but it's not prohibited. Minor cleanup won't get the book thrown at you. On the other hand, maybe it's best to play it safe, especially since you're new hereabouts.

The other generally approved avenue for making changes, as I mentioned, is using {{edit request}}s on the talk page. However, the backlog is high, and the larger/more complicated the request, the longer it will take to find someone who's willing to dedicate their time to it. AfC isn't the speediest of processes either, but if you submit a clean, well-referenced draft, I think you'll get more bang for your (or, rather, your employer's) buck there. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:12, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@NewfoldComms: Your primary concern at this point should be changing your username to something more individual in nature, otherwise you risk your account being blocked for using a corporate username. After that, then you can turn your attention to learning the procedure to make edit requests. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 20:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

A request has apparently already been submitted, Drm310 - see above. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Apparently they've also tried to create a sandbox draft, only to have it promptly deleted (ouch). Wikipediaing is definitely harder than it looks. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:12, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Cordless Larry, I missed that. My apologies, NewfoldComms - I hope your rename request is processed soon. Good luck. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 20:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I hope so, too! NewfoldComms (talk) 21:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

And thank you! NewfoldComms (talk) 21:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Live and learn! I was just experimenting with formatting in the sandbox, and, indeed, it was deleted for advertising. I've started working on a draft using the wizard instead, and I'm saving my back-up in a Word file. Gradually working my way through the educational materials provided in parallel. I hope to have the paired article drafts ready for feedback and review next week.

It is harder than it looks, but I must also note how much assistance I've been provided in this thread by individuals who have nothing to gain other than helping someone else out, and I have to say that's pretty cool! Again, sincerely appreciate it. NewfoldComms (talk) 21:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Watch your tone (be dry and factual) and your sources (use independent, reliable, secondary sources almost exclusively, and source everything) and that shouldn't happen again, @NewfoldComms. Hopefully.

Wikipedia is generally supposed to be a bunch of folks getting together to support the free spread of knowledge just because they think it's cool. Hopefully we end up doing that more often than not! 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I will keep that in mind, thanks! Hope you (and everyone else on the thread) have a great weekend! NewfoldComms (talk) 22:01, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I like the AfC path's prospects best, based on your assessment, and am taking that route. Thank you for the advice! NewfoldComms (talk) 21:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@NewfoldComms: If you're looking for an example for how to write the content when several companies get together and become a new company, see how I handled this when Wunderman and J. Walter Thompson merged to form Wunderman Thompson. Feel free to ping me when your draft is ready, if you want feedback. Also, if you follow my example, Newfold Digital will have to be moved back to Endurance International Group to clear the namespace for the new Newfold Digital article. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:00, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion

I have just posted information on my company. No Marketing content and the page has been deleted. Please advise how to get the page up and running!

Sorabht (talk) 17:45, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Sorabht, welcome to the Teahouse. You've posted some unsourced content about your company to your user page. There are several problems here: first, your user page is a place to post information about yourself as a Wikipedia editor, not a place to write articles (see HELP:YFA for information about writing articles - please read it carefully); second, as the owner of the company, you are a paid editor and must make the appropriate disclosures (see WP:PAID for information about disclosing - please also read that carefully); third, content on Wikipedia must be supported by reliable sources, and any article subject must be notable by our standards (please follow those links and read those pages carefully as well - yes, a great deal of reading is involved around here!). Once you've read and followed all those instructions and submitted your draft article to WP:AfC, you may finally get an article "up and running". 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:56, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Sorabht. I will add something to what the IP user said. Many people misunderstand what Wikipedia is.

If at some point Wikipedia has an article about your company, the article will not beong to you, will not be controlled by you, will not necessarily say what you want it to say (and might say things that you would prefer it didn't say), and it should be based almost 100% on what people who have no connection with you have published about your company, not on what you say or want to say. I cannot see your deleted draft, but judging from what you have said above, that consisted of what you want to say about your company. But Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.

If suitable independent sources exist, your company may meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability: most companies do not. If it does, then it may be worth pursuing this. If not, you will be wasting your time and ours by continuing. ColinFine (talk) 18:04, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I want to move article from Sandbox to Wikipedia live

Hello Experts, I am unable to move my article from Sandbox to Wikipedia live. There has no move option or anything like this. Can you please tell me what was the problem? Is there any problem in my account or anything else? I will grateful to you. Thank You Fa60381 (talk) 18:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Fa60381, welcome to the Teahouse. Your account must be autoconfirmed in order to create an article. However, in its current state, your article would be quickly moved back out of mainspace (or possibly deleted), since it is a biography of a living person that is entirely unsourced. You need to provide reliable sources for the information in the draft, and create inline citations to those sources. Please see your first article and referencing for beginners 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@Fa60381, additionally, I notice that the photograph which you uploaded as "own work" has a watermark in the top right with a copyright statement by what seems to be the photographer or photography studio. Are you the photographer who took that photograph? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

question

Do you need a source in an infobox? 161.77.57.235 (talk) 18:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes Fa60381 (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, IP editor, and welcome! Sources are not required if the information is included later in the body of the article and cited there. See this for the full guideline. Happy editing! Perfect4th (talk) 18:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

format

I am not sure if I have the right format for my most recent edit, so maybe someone could take a look please. Thanks! 161.77.57.235 (talk) 18:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 19:03, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Someone Deleted my draft

Please I need help, I created draft:Kula perry and a wiki user has deleted it. Stitches03 (talk) 19:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Stitches03. The reasons for the deletion are explained at User talk:Stitches03#Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Kula Perry. Do you have any questions about that rationale? Cordless Larry (talk) 19:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I need assistance with an article?

Hi. I'm working on an article for a well known public figure who is a YouTuber and actress in my country. I'm trying to get the article published but I'm not sure if the sources I used are good enough? I would appreciate any feedback/suggestions on how I can improve the article and get it published.

The article: Neo Rapetsoa

Thank you. Alien Superstar (talk) 20:34, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

There are a number of good sources from news sites. Ruslik_Zero 21:00, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Alien Superstar, the article looks good. It doesn't have any copyright violations, the citiation bot ran over the article and made some very minor changes, and overall the article is well written. One thing to note is that every article on Wikipedia needs to have some categories added to it to help other users find the article. I went ahead and added a couple for you listing her as a South African actress and someone who was born in 2001. If you think there are a couple more that could be added go right ahead and add them. Dr vulpes ^{(💬 • 📝)} 21:35, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Deleting

There is a page I've come to edit, and there are some details I would like to delete from it because I feel that it's not needed on the page. However, I'm new here and I want to be sure I don't make a mistake and potentially lead to conflict. Am I able to do that or should I simply leave the details alone? Sabertoothman (talk) 21:17, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@Sabertoothman: Welcome to Wikipedia. Since you didn't give us the details, then I would tell you that editors are generally encouraged to be WP:BOLD and make the edit, if you are acting in WP:GOODFAITH. If you are, then go for it. However, if you believe the edit is likely to be controversial, you can always suggest the edit first on the Talk Page of the article. If the article is not highly visited, though, you may not get a quick response. In that case, you might just want to make the edit yourself. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 21:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Are the details referenced? Is the content germane to why the subject of the article is notable? David notMD (talk) 02:00, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Since details are an issue, here's my situation. I want to edit the dhole page by adding more information about how they live with tigers. The information comes from two scientific studies, one is how they use the diel to avoid the big cats and the other reveals tigers suppress their pack sizes. At the same time, I would like to delete some of the current details (about dholes killing tigers) because they might give the readers the wrong idea that dholes as a pack are nearly invincible rather than simply talking about them like animals. That, and those old stories probably helped the dhole's near demise back in colonial times and thus do not see them as something to be looked at fondly. It deleting them isn't recommended, then I'd at least like to edit them to mention that the stories remain unverified. Sabertoothman (talk) 04:02, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: dhole --Maresa63 ^Talk 07:00, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Possible to vanish/undo edits made with IP address (anonymously)?

It's not possible to associate edits made by IP address with an account. In the interest of privacy, is it possible to delete, remove, or vanish contributions made from an IP address instead? For example, such a function would be helpful if edits were made when not logged in. LagMotion (talk) 22:03, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @LagMotion, welcome to the Teahouse. Privacy concerns like accidental logged-out editing are handled by an appeal to the folks at WP:OVERSIGHT. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

wikipedia discord ban

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Hi there, I got banned from the Wikimedia Community Discord, is there a place to appeal? A diehard editor (talk | edits) 22:06, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind - found it at Wikipedia talk:Discord. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 22:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@A diehard editor, see Wikipedia:Discord#Ban appeals. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

John Irwin (producer) merge with Irwin Entertainment

These 2 pages are very similar, one about the company and one about the Producer (owner). I already deleted bunch of info from producers page that was duplicate, but I suggest merging them. I do not know which should be the master page and I also do not know how to start this process. Please provide advice. Upper Deck Guy (talk) 00:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Upper Deck Guy Both of these are poor articles which could do with more work. However, one is a biography of a living person and the other an article about a company. As such they are about completely different topics and unlikely to merge well. If and when more information is added, they would be likely to diverge more. Hence I think it would be better to keep them independent. Other editors may disagree with me and if you want to test that out, then the merger proposal process outlined at WP:MERGEPROP is the way to go. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:09, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

My User Pages

Can i added facebook,youtube,website or, any other application's on my user pages ? Is it legal in Wikipedian for to do that work in Wikipedia policies ? Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk) 00:44, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Ajrun Amir'za-da. Please read Wikipedia:User pages. The purpose of your userpage is to inform other editors about your interests, goals and contributions as a Wikipedia editor. So, your userpage will be evaluated in context. If it looks to others like you are primarily trying to promote your activities unrelated to Wikipedia, then that is not acceptable. Some experienced editors do include such links on their userpages. I have been editing for 13 years. I have a website and am active on Facebook but do not include those links because I do not think that it is necessary and do not want anyone to think that I am promoting my off-Wikipedia activities and interests. Cullen328 (talk) 01:02, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Which References Do you Need for Publishing an Article?

Hello@ ‪Stuartyeates‬

Could you please help check which references you need for publishing this article?

The four references are the footnotes for the quotations found in the article. The fifth one is a Book (ISBN 957-561-172-1) for the Category of Sacred Catholic Music of this draft: Draft:Roman Catholic Church Accompanist.

I've found an English page that has some proof of the Accompanist (Church Musician): These musicians often accompany the church choir or congregation during the singing of hymns. Here's the link FYI: https://www.musicalexpert.org/what-is-a-church-musician.htm

Could you please let me know where to add it to the footnotes as References?

Do you need any other English copies for the references?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Please let me know.

Thank you.

Nativefreelancer (talk) 00:57, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Nativefreelancer. In order to establish that the topic is notable, you need to provide references to significant coverage in reliable, independent sources of "Roman Catholic Church accompanist". An internal church document that Pope Paul VI wrote in 1963 is not an independent source. The musicalexpert.org source does not differentiate between Catholic and Protestant church musicians, so it does not support the notability of your specific topic. You need to find reliable sources independent of the Roman Catholic Church that devote significant coverage to the topic. Perhaps academic scholars of comparative religion have discussed it. It is up to you to find such sources. Cullen328 (talk) 01:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello@Cullen328

Thank you for your insightful suggestions.

Do you think this page from a Roman Catholic Church will do to explain the role of a Roman Catholic Church Accompanist (Musician)?

https://ascensionbismarck.org/music-ministry

It's in the Accompanist section.

Your help would be much appreciated. Nativefreelancer (talk) 08:43, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid not, Nativefreelancer. That site fails on three counts: first it is not reliable - that doesn't mean that we doubt that church, but there is no reason to expect them to be going through a rigorous editorial process as we would from a major publisher or newspaper. Secondly it is not independent, since it is from a catholic church. (That would not necessarily preclude citing it as an additional source, but it cannot contribute to establishing notability). But the main problem is that it does not contain a single word about "Catholic church accompanist" as a topic. (In particular, neither the word "church" nor the word "Catholic" appears in the paragraph you mention). You are trying to establoish that "Catholic church accompanist" is a significant topic - in order to do so, you need sources that discuss that specific topic in depth. ColinFine (talk) 09:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Nativefreelancer, the two short sentences in this page are about RC accompanists in that one RC church (in Bismarck, SD). They say very little; and what little they do say may or may not be true for other RC churches. -- Hoary (talk) 09:27, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @ColinFine

I see what you mean. Will the college website that describe the role of an accompanist do?

Here's the page FYI:

Option 1: Berklee College of Music

https://www.berklee.edu/careers/roles/accompanistrehearsal-pianist

Or this Publication: Book or Magazine may explain what a Roman Catholic Church Accompanist do.

Option 2: 10. To the Chief Musician: Organist as a Worshiper, and 13. The Accompaniment of the Hymns

https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=pkdDEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT66&dq=catholic+church+accompanist&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTqba4yJv6AhWFNKYKHYotB1A4FBDoAXoECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=catholic%20church%20accompanist&f=false

Option 3: Organist: A Mid-monthly Musical Magazine, volume 16

https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=uldGAQAAMAAJ&dq=what%20does%20a%20roman%20catholic%20church%20accompanist%20do&hl=zh-TW&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q=what%20does%20a%20roman%20catholic%20church%20accompanist%20do&f=false

Hello @Horay

Actually, it reflects all the Roman Catholic Church. That's why I provided it as a reference of the page here for similar description found in the introduction of this draft. FYI:

Draft:Roman Catholic Church Accompanist

The purpose is for cross-checking if needed.

Do you think the 3 options provided above may be used as independent references?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Please let me know.

Thank you. Nativefreelancer (talk) 10:17, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Nativefreelancer, the Berklee source is a good source about accompanists in general, but does not mention the Roman Catholic Church. Accordingly, it does not help establish the notability of your narrowly defined topic I cannot read the second source. The third source appears to be a letter to the editor signed with a pseudonym, so is of no value as a Wikipedia source. It is just one random person's opinion. Cullen328 (talk) 15:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Edit war

Hi

I am new to Wikipedia and I seem to be in an edit war regarding a certain page about information that is on it. I would like to be able to contact the person with which I am in this "war" to come to some agreement. However, I do not know how to identify who made the changes and how to contact them. Cbolton2001 (talk) 01:03, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Look in the page's history (linked at the top of the page); it should list the users who are reverting your edits and provide links to their talk pages. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 01:21, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Cbolton2001. The first thing that you must do is stop edit warring. If you continue, you will be blocked. Edit warring is not permitted. There are legitimate forms of dispute resolution available to you. As for the content dispute, you may misunderstand the purpose of an encyclopedia article about a college. Such an article should neutrally cover the entire history of the institution, warts and all, reflecting what the full range of reliable independent sources say about the topic. It is not supposed to be a bright and shiny brochure that advertises the 2022 version of the institution, and the feelings of the current staff are of no consequence whatsoever. You should express your concerns at Talk:St John's College, Hastings. Cullen328 (talk) 01:50, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Cbolton2001, two editors have reverted your deletion of well referenced content. They are Adakiko and Gadfium. Cullen328 (talk) 01:57, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

You can communicate with them on their Talk pages, but keeping dialog to the article's talk page is preferred. David notMD (talk) 02:04, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the editors who have reverted your deletion. However, either the History or Historical abuse sections could benefit from providing information (with reference(s)) about when priests stopped teaching at the school. David notMD (talk) 02:13, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi

Thank-you for your reply. I acknowledge the history and the warts and all aspects of the College History. My understanding is that while the two priests have been accused, and one of them found guilty, of abuse, the abuse did not occur at St John's College. Hence my desire to edit the page. I do not want an edit war, so appreciate the dialogue. Cbolton2001 (talk) 02:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The best place to discuss this is the article's talk page, where all involved editors can contribute and read each others' contributions. Maproom (talk) 07:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Cbolton2001 Much of the article is unreferenced, and refs 3, 4 and 5 (the same 2006 report) are a dead link. Much can be done to improve the article. Including taking and adding a photo(s) of significant buildings. David notMD (talk) 07:50, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Size matters

I have a problem. You can see it if you go to the Discography section of the article for Beat Happening. The last entries in both the Compilation and Singles sub-categories evince a short dash, but the page uses long dashes. Search as I might, I can't find a long dash on my keyboard. Maybe it's antiquated, or maybe there's a secret virtual keyboard accessible only after a certain number of edits a la the Wikipedia Library. Whatever, I solved this problem once before by cutting-and-pasting, but I wonder if there's a more elegant solution. Pete Best Beatles (talk) 04:42, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

If you have a numeric keyboard, hold down the Alt key and type 0151 for an em dash or 0150 for an en dash. You can also use the {{em dash}} or {{en dash}} templates. General Ization ^Talk 04:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Pete Best Beatles: I haven't seen it on any keyboard. You may have a drop-down box with clickable options below the edit area. Both "Wiki markup" and "Insert" start with en dash "–". Long dashes are usually en dashes but should occasionally be the even longer em dashes. See more at Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Dashes which also mentions ways to produce them. I know several but often just use copy-paste which is pretty fast with keyboard shortcuts (cut: Ctrl+x, copy: Ctrl+c, insert: Ctrl+v). PrimeHunter (talk) 05:26, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@General Ization:@PrimeHunter:Thanks. Maybe the Wikinati don't rule after all. -- Pete Best Beatles (talk) 11:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Mary Motley Kalergis

A delayed response -- sorry, but I've been away from the interwebs -- to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1164#Finding_Independent_Resources, on Draft:Mary Motley Kalergis, and more specifically to CrystlBluPersuason's request at the end of that:

Flattery much appreciated!

The draft has problems of formatting, but let's put them aside for now.

Perhaps most pressing issues are those of copyright, raised when you write, or cause to be written, "Uploaded a work by Mary Motley Kalergis from Hardcopy of [such and such] provided by the artist, along with Creative Commons CC0 Waiver. with UploadWizard". Unless I misunderstand utterly, "the artist" is Kalergis. Informing Commons of this CC0 Waiver is a job for her alone, I believe. Though for File:Mary Kalergis.jpg it's for William Campbell. (Incidentally, concerning File:Diafarmma Kodak Gallery Exhibit invitation.jpg, it's "Diaframma", not "Diafarmma".)

Secondly, while the draft is bristling with (appreciative) commentary from people (notably fellow photographers) whose freely expressed opinions on photography mean something, where these comments come from isn't specified, so they'd be classed as unreferenced. A number of them read like blurbs: comments served up at the publisher or author's request. Blurbs won't hack it. Very unfortunately, there's not much of a culture of thinking reviews of photobooks (I haven't seen the New York Review of Books or even the New Yorker recently, but I don't think that either reviews any); however, I'd have thought that somewhere "reliable", some of her exhibitions and shows would have been reviewed.

And lastly (for now), "she pursues her passion for foxhunting on horseback" means no more than "she hunts foxes", I think.

So, is Kalergis "notable" (as notability is, perhaps perversely, defined by and for Wikipedia)? I'd guess that there is evidence somewhere out there that, if you could only find it and cite it precisely, would show that yes she is. -- Hoary (talk) 07:14, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm enjoying the process of learning how to edit Wikipedia-style, although the required precision is a bit daunting. You've provided a fine initial critique, with much to keep me busy. Stay tuned for further iterations before (I hope) actual publication. Regards, Cryst. CrystlBluPersuason (talk) 15:03, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

About dead links

I found that in the references of multiple articles about African butterflies in the family Lycaenidae and Hesperiidae have atbutterflies.com as their source, but the link seems to no longer exist. Can I replace them with other sources?

Links Telipna acraea and Gamia buchholzi

ball deletor. 07:06, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

.polishcatsmybeloved, doing so could raise problems. Have you looked in the Wayback Machine for usable scrapes of the pages that are now dead? -- Hoary (talk) 07:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

PS How to do this: Simply, choose among the Wayback Machine's various copies of the page to find a copy that says what the now-deleted original is described as saying. Replace the dead link with a link to this Wayback Machine copy, labelling it as a Wayback Machine scrape of such-and-such a date. For details, see Help:Using the Wayback Machine. -- Hoary (talk) 09:10, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@.polishcatsmybeloved I've done the Telipna acraea one for you as the link was to a Word document and not properly formatted as {{cite web}}, which made it slightly more tricky. You should be able to work out how to do the other from my edit. Also, you might like to read the document itself, which seems to have been a lot of work for whoever wrote it and may be of interest for other articles. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Help needed: Speedy Deletion nomination of new page, account of editor blocked and previous changes discarded

Dear community,

I am reaching out for your expert advice to help solve an issue my client has landed into. Points listed below give an account of events in chronological order:

-An employee at my client's edited his company page with information to reflect new development in terms of revenue, geographical presence, etc., edited language at places to make it more suitable, added current citations for both old and new edits, organized the page with tabular layouts for sections like Board of Directors, Board members, etc.

-These edits were accepted without any issue.

-He then went on to edit the page of his company's Co-founder and chairman, and again made edits to reflect new information. The new information/edits included - information pertaining to early life and career, awards & recognition and Social work.

-These edits also got accepted without any issue.

-After two or three weeks, he developed content for another co-founder of the company, and created a page for him on Wikipedia. This time however, the page got nominated for deletion, and his profile is said to be indefinitely blocked.

-The administrator who nominated the co-founder's page for deletion also banned this editor's profile and discarded all his recent edits made on the company and company's chairman's page.

-This employee of my client's has reached out to me for help, so I am writing here to get your expert thoughts on how can I best handle this.

From my understanding and knowledge of how Wikipedia works and the policy and guidelines to edits content or to create new page, I can say that the edits made on company page and those on the co-founder page do not seem to violate any guidelines, the one concern I have though is that this employee who made the edits did not disclose his conflict of interest, which he should have done to begin with.

There is a big issue with the new page creation, because their earlier attempt I am told was rejected I think a year or two back. They tried creating the page again by changing the content to make it plain and non-promotional. Added proper reference links too. Their point is that the other co-founder (whose page got deleted) is also a prominent figure (no less than the co-founder who has the page up) and is well covered by the media; journalists and people also look for him, and there is need and a solid case to have a separate Wikipedia page for him.

I am thinking to follow the below steps to help. And please I request you all to guide me here to make the best, ethical decision:

1. Ask the client's employee to go through Wikipedia guidelines and policies thoroughly, especially the ones which led to this situation. 2. Ask the client's employee to appeal for getting his account unblocked. And in this appeal he should disclose that he had conflict of interest. And such mistakes will not be repeated. 3. Appeal to the administrator to have a closer look at the edits made on the company page and co-founder page (which all she/he rejected) and instead of rejecting everything, advise on making them better suited for Wikipedia if she/he finds there are specific issue with certain edit(s). 4. To create a page for the other co-founder, I can advice the client to first analyze if there is a solid case to have a separate page for this person, and if there is a good case, they can start by creating a page at Special:Mypage/co-founder which can allow other editors to contribute while the page gets developed, instead of controlling the content themselves.

Your advice is much appreciated. Looking forward to hear back. Thank you!

Yours faithfully,

- Fahad

PS. My apologies, I can not yet disclose the pages and editor's profile referred to here, but if you feel it is mandatory and will help resolve the issue in any way, I can put it here. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 11:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Fahadmonibsiddiqui, it would be good if your client's employee could post here on this page (though not in this section, if you want to maintain anonymity), explaining what has happened and asking for well-informed advice. But he can't, if his account (Wikipedia doesn't do profiles) has been blocked. I'm somewhat surprised that an inexperienced editor has been blocked for undisclosed paid editing. But there may be aspects that I don't know about. Maproom (talk) 11:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your response @Maproom. As per my knowledge, he is not getting paid exclusively for wiki edits. I think he got this as an additional responsibility to his job role. And yes, his experience is limited only to editing which is the easier part, becoming acquainted with and complying with the policy is the hard part, which I think is not a common practice. Hence, the good work by administrators, and responsible editors is needed. I'll request the client's employee to explain in a suitable forum, but right now, I need help to understand which steps to follow in a case like this. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 12:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Fahadmonibsiddiqui. When you write that "These edits were accepted without any issue", are you aware that most edits aren't subject to any form of approval process? It's likely that the edits concerned just went unnoticed.

You also write that "From my understanding and knowledge of how Wikipedia works and the policy and guidelines to edits content or to create new page, I can say that the edits made on company page and those on the co-founder page do not seem to violate any guidelines, the one concern I have though is that this employee who made the edits did not disclose his conflict of interest, which he should have done to begin with". That final part is very important. Undisclosed paid editing is a violation of the site's terms of use. Please see WP:PAID on this (it also strikes me that the requirement to make the disclosure also likely applies to you). Cordless Larry (talk) 12:38, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

it also strikes me that the requirement to make the disclosure also likely applies to you
It certainly does! Dutchy45 (talk) 12:44, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Larry. Thanks for your response. "It's likely that the edits concerned just went unnoticed." but I have checked these edits and it seems they have made updates which do not qualify as promotional. These seem like necessary updates, and I think regular updates are made by different brands everyday as part of the hygiene to keep the information up-to-date, and my client's attempt probably was not very different. Having said that, please note, I was not involved with the client until the issue surfaced.

I am not sure if the edits made by the employee qualifies as "paid edits" as this was given as an additional responsibility to him, he does a completely different job.

Can you please advice how can we approach this step-by-step? Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 13:36, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

You stated that the edits were accepted, Fahadmonibsiddiqui, and I pointed out that there isn't an acceptance process (unless they were requested via an edit request, perhaps?). You're now stating that they were necessary, but that's a different matter.

Edits made by an employee are paid edits. Both you and your client need to make the required disclosure. Your client can then appeal their block and promise not to edit the relevant articles directly, but to use the edit request process as outlined at WP:COIREQ. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Larry. This is helpful. I'll ensure the procedure is followed correctly moving forward. If you have any other advise please share. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 15:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing may be of interest. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:03, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Two articles need combining

Found Shout (Laurie Halse Anderson book) and Shout (memoir) as they are on the same subject. Can someone combine them when they have time? Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 11:17, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@GrahamHardy I note that @Just another anon already tagged one of the pair in January this year but doesn't seem to have followed through. I wonder if the correct process was followed, since Shout (memoir) doesn't also have the tag. It seems obvious they do need to be merged as duplicates. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:25, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

another link to a title

Hey guys,
I want to add Bingoal Stadion to the names that link to ADO Den Haag Stadium, since that is the new naming sponsor. How do I do this? Or somebody feel free to do it for me. See this announcement by the club:https://adodenhaag.nl/nl/business/home/10248-ado-den-haag-presenteert-bingoal-als-stadionsponsor?highlight=WyJiaW5nb2FsIiwiJ2JpbmdvYWwiXQ== Dutchy45 (talk) 12:25, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Done Roostery123 (talk) 12:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Assessment Unknown

Why the article I created is unknown in assessment field but it has been added to wikidata 16 days ago. Asiis (talk) 14:31, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Which article are you talking about? Article assessment (apart from Good or Featured articles) is informal, and has little practical consequence. ColinFine (talk) 15:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The Addams Family Updating Help Needed

Looking at the Addams Family Wiki Page I would like to add some information. I am not computer savvy enough to do this myself without messing up the page.

Under Homages and Adaptations I wanted to include that on 17 September 2022, The California Lottery included a $2 scratcher based on the original TV series with images of the original adult cast (Lurch, Grand-Ma-MA, Fester, Gomez, and Morticia). The description of the game from the official website is They’re creepy and they’re kooky and now you have a chance to win their family fortune. The Addams Family Fortune Scratchers® feature 10 chances to win, including 2X and 10X multipliers and a spooky “bat” symbol to win all ten prizes automatically. Best of all, with two snaps of your fingers you could play for your chance at a TOP PRIZE OF UP TO $30,000! Source https://www.calottery.com/scratchers/$2/the-addams-family-fortune-1529 Can someone please update this for me? ScottC4746 (talk) 15:04, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

That sounds like an advertisement, and so inappropriate for a Wikipedia article. But if you really want to request it, you should do so on the article's talk page. Maproom (talk) 15:32, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, ScottC4746. This would only be appropriate to add if reliable sources that are entirely independent of the Addams Family franchise and the California Lottery discuss it. Cullen328 (talk) 15:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, ScottC. If a reputable newspaper has reported and discussed (not just mentioned) that this is happening, then it may be mentioned in the Wikipedia article, cited to that newspaper. Otherwise, No. See MOS:CULTURALREFS. ColinFine (talk) 16:08, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Help with editing a page

Hi there,

I need help with this page I am editing — Susan Sherman.

I have issues with 2 images:

There was an issue with an image I uploaded accidentally about Gay Liberation — and I was wrong about the copyright. The image isn't rights-free and it must be removed, but other editors keep putting it back. How do I delete it permanently?

Thank you,

Tamar

Ovaryian (talk) 17:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't see anything that you uploaded to Wikipedia, but you did upload images to Commons. As Gay Liberation1970.jpg was uploaded yesterday, if you want to have it deleted, you can put {{SD|G7|your reason here}} at the top of the commons file page.

Also, please ask Commons questions at the commons help desk, a lot of the admins here aren't admins at Commons and can't delete pages there. Weeklyd3 (talk) 17:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Ovaryian, and welcome to the Teahouse. Or, more simply, go to c:File:Gay Liberation1970.jpg and pick "Nominate for deletion" from the sidebar. Is c:File:Adrienne Rich and Susan Sherman.jpg also a copyright violation? ColinFine (talk) 17:32, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, that's helpful.

c:File:Adrienne Rich and Susan Sherman.jpgis not a violation, but I do want the photographer credited and someone keeps deleting it. Ovaryian (talk) 18:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

help with photo caption

I am editing this page and need to credit the photographer even though the image is open source. How do I do that so it doesn't get deleted?

Someone keeps deleting the photographer credit, over and over. It's the top photo on this page (with Adrienne Rich): Susan Sherman

Thank you!

Tamar Ovaryian (talk) 18:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ovaryian, the place to credit the photographer - if it is required - is not in the caption in the article, but on Commons where the image is hosted. I note that you uploaded it as "own work", which is apparently not the case. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2022 (UTC)