Talk:Johnny Cash/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

A Boy Named Sue

There is some discrepancy. Johnny Cash article says "Boy named Sue" went to #3 and the Boy named Sue article that it went to #2 in the US Pop Charts. Kpjas (21:30, 13 September 2003)

"A Boy Named Sue" was #1 for 5 weeks in 1969 on the Country charts. It was #2 for 3 weeks on the Pop charts. I'll correct this in the Johnny Cash article.Hayford Peirce 21:06, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Johnny Cash novel?

At some point in the 1970s, wasn't there a Johnny Cash novel, supposedly written by him, about Jesus? Maybe called The Man in White? If so, shouldn't this be mentioned? And maybe a little research would turn up who actually wrote it? As a professional writer myself, I'm always a little skeptical of celebrities who have books, particularly novels, published under their names. Hayford Peirce 15:44, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Correct in every detail Hayford. You can still buy it... http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062501356/qid=1092932329/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-1908084-6436422 I don't remember him mentioning it in "Cash", the autobiography. He might well have written it himself, as he fancied himself as a writer and poet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gareth Owen (talk • contribs) (16:21, 19 August 2004)

Well, that's true, of course. Lotsa singers are also writers of a sort. I remember reading a review of it in the Times, I think, a long time ago, saying that it was actually a pretty good book for what it was supposed to be. Or at least they didn't sneer at it. So if someone else doesn't stick it into the article, either as a comment, or a link, I'll do it later on.... Hayford Peirce 17:43, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Correct in every detail Hayford." -quoth the unsigned user

Hardly. It was published in 1986, not "at some point in the 1970s", and was about the apostle Paul, not Jesus. If Cash "fancied himself as a writer and poet", then what do you, unsigned user, fancy yourself as? A passive-agressive windbag, perhaps? Grammaticus Repairo 03:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings)

Using song titles as headings strikes me as inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. These headings mislead the reader who may be unfamiliar with Johnny Cash. Imagine yourself, having never heard of Cash, reading this article.

Daddy Sang Bass- Did his father sing the bass? The heading leads me to believe that his father was a bass singer and this played a role in his early musical career. "Papa played the Dobro" makes as much sense and Daddy Sang Bass.

Delia's Gone - Who is Delia and what does her leaving have to do with his career in the 1990's?

Looking at other articles with good descriptive headings (Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Frank Sinatra, Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John Coltrane, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, Miles Davis, etc.) shows me that a song or album title is only appropriate when it has particular importance in the career of the musician. Why do these headings deviate so much from other Wikipedia articles about 20th century musicians?

I will wait a few days for more input before I standardize the headings. Cacophony 23:57, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your changes do improve the sense of the article. Tiles 03:52, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hall of Fame typo?

There is a discrepency in the article. The opening paragraph states that Cash is one of three people (the other two stated to be Elvis Presley and Hank Williams Sr.) to have reached both the Country Hall of Fame and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. However, near the bottom of the article, listing his legacy, it is stated that he is one of only two people who was nominated to both halls of fame. Which is correct? Did or did not Hank Williams Sr. become nominated in both halls of fame? Crisco 1492 15:29, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes there is a mistake in the bottom of the page, all 3 were inducted into both country and Rock and roll hall of fame. however only Cash and Williams were inducted into Country, Rock and Roll and Song writer hall of fame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.123.246.211 (talk • contribs) (22:20, 9 August 2005)

Hank Williams Sr., along with Bill Monroe, Jimmie Rodgers, and others, are in both the Country and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but as "early influences." Cash is unusual in being a country star inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a normal inductee, not as an early influence.

Baritone?

As a classical baritone, I think it is misleading to have the word baritone in the opening sentence link to the article for the voice type baritone. Cash is most obviously a bass and the word baritone is being used to describe his voice not name his voice type. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Captbaritone (talk • contribs) (23:14, 12 August 2005)

Yes, Baritone

Johnny Cash is not a bass. A low baritone or bass/baritone. He could barely hit a low C. His voice is deep, oaken even, but technically not all that low. Just a lot of undertones and gravel which makes him sound more bassy than most bass voices. Listen to big river. That D3 was the lowest he could get at that age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.194.46.42 (talk • contribs) (00:21, 27 February 2006)

On the liner notes of a few CDs I have he is described as a Bass/Baritone. AllanHainey 13:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw an interview with the late Johnny Cash on Larry King Live a few years ago, and when Larry mentioned his bass voice Johnny said, "no, I'm not a bass". Most bios I've read describe his voice as being 'bass/baritone'. I don't think that's correct... Johnny wasn't singing to a D3 in Big River, that was a D2, lower than the E2 that Wikipedia cites as being a bottom note for a bass. Granted, it's silly to cite Wikipedia when complaining about the innacuracies of a Wikipedia article, but Johnny did have a much lower voice than a true baritone. The common misconception seems to be, however, that baritone and bass have mutual meanings. - Timmerbo

He seemed to hit the low notes OK in the song "Daddy Sang Bass". But I wouldn't call him a basso profundo or whatever. I think of that one guy in The Oak Ridge Boys (I think his name is Richard Sterban) as being a true bass. Wahkeenah 01:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Big River was in G, and he slides down from a D3 in the turnaround. When he grew older he played the song in E and was able to fully voice the turnaround. He's a low baritone or bass/baritone, but not a bass.

That wasn't Cash, they hired a bass singer to do that. {[unsigned|62.194.46.42}} (13:04, 25 October 2006)

You're saying it wasn't Cash singing the line "Daddy sang bass?" Sure it was. Or someone imitating him perfectly. Wahkeenah 13:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It's Cash in the original version he recorded in 1968, the same year Perkins wrote the song, and you can hear it's vocal fry and zero resonance. The best-known version that aired on TV featured one of the Statler Brothers on bass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.194.46.42 (talk • contribs) (14:57, 27 October 2006)

English American?

I removed Cash from this category because, as far as I know, none of his grandparents were English citizens (as required by the category). RMoloney 21:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I propose the category White Mutt for those of us white people who don't know what our ancestors were.--Gbleem 22:16, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Grandfather of Gangsta Rap

Who said he was the Grandfather of gangsta rap? I'm sure I've heard it but google didn't give me anything.--Gbleem 22:11, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

In the book Ring of Fire: The Johnny Cash Reader, edited by Michael Streissguth, published in the spring of 2002, the editor refers to John as the "the godfather of metal and gangsta rap". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.129.11.41 (talk • contribs) (23:03, 13 August 2006)

Awards

Is there any reason why only his Grammy awards are listed? He has also recieved several CMA awards, off the top of my head I know he recieved at least two for Hurt the year he died because I remember seeing the award show with Roseanne Cash and John Carter Cash accepting the awards for him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.23.106.217 (talk • contribs) (00:50, 20 November 2005)

Cash's CMA awards are now there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.95.127.81 (talk • contribs) (17:55, 23 April 2006)

In the section entitled "The Man In Black", there is the statement: "Cash also sang a duet with Dylan on Dylan's country album Nashville Skyline, and also wrote the album's Grammy-winning liner notes." There's a Grammy award for LINER NOTES!?! Grammaticus Repairo 17:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, as you can easily check at the Grammy's web page [1]. The year was 1969. -Stellmach 17:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The song "Send those n-----s back"

This highly racist song has been credited (in various places on the internet) to Cash. I strongly suspect that this credit is erroneous, and wondered if it would be appropriate (if anyone knows for sure) to mention the error of this credit, in order to clear Cash's name, as it were. The song has also been credited to johnny rebel aka david allen coe. halio 12 December 2005

Well, it's not Cash. According to gracenote CDDB, it seems to be the repellent KKK cheerleader, Johnny Rebel (not an alias for allan coe incidentally, who is a literate, if occasionally foulmouthed, songwriter). I don't know if it should be mentioned in the article - it depends how widespread the error is? RMoloney (talk) 02:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

well, the google search '"johnny cash" "ship those niggers back"' throws up 141 results. it also seems that the p2p software limewire includes copies of the song credited to cash. halio 19:49, 13 December 2005

According to Johnny Rebel (singer) ([2]) he only has 13 songs, none of them "Send...". Hyacinth 10:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The song is apparently by "Odis Cochran & The Three Bigots". Not Cash, and not Rebel; it's miscreditted, same as almost every LimeWire download. Travis001 15:10, 25 December 2005

According to an article published in 2001 in XMAG, this song was indeed by Odis Cochran and was released on Arlington, Virginia's Hatenanny label. [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.72.19 (talk • contribs) (22:22, 24 January 2006)

Image copyright infringement?

Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Why does Cash's infobox have an album cover in it and not a publicity photo? (Okay, rhetorical question. We probably don't have a publicity photo.) But the current image's license states:

images of album or single covers solely to illustrate the album or single in question

Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement

My understanding is that the image can't be used in certain contexts, mainly like the "This is Johnny Cash" type one it's being used in now. Am I misinterpreting something here or isn't this a possible copyright infringement? Mrtea (talk) 18:08, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Johnny's broken jaw

I don't see anything about Johnny's broken jaw, which was poorly set and accounts for his bent face. This gave him constant pain throughout his life, and led in some degree to his drug dependencies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.80.168.97 (talk • contribs) (03:06, 30 December 2005)

If you have a verifiable source for that information, please be bold and add it to the article. Jonathunder 16:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

And remember to cite! :) Disinclination 07:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Sweden?

I have a recording of him speaking in some scandinavian language to the audience before singing a song. The title of the track says live from Österåker, which I have ascertained, is in Sweden. Does anyone know anything else about this so we could mention it in the article?--Alhutch 18:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning, hasn't he performed on 100s of different places through his career? Btw, if you want, write a phonetic representation of the Swedish, and I see if I could understand what it means and translate it into English. 惑乱 分からん 18:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a very rough approximation of what he says. "Tak meena vinner. Yoga hopus atnee tikker oomfor muzeek. Yoga hopus atnee tikker oom may. Detta erun song om 'me and bobby mcgee'." That's the best I can do. I suppose you're right, it may not merit mentioning in the article. thanks,--Alhutch 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I think he tries to say something like this: "Tack, mina vänner. Jag hoppas att ni tycker om för musik.(??? This sentence actually sounds quite strange...) Jag hoppas att ni tycker om mig. Detta är en sång om 'Me and Bobby McGee'." which translates to something like "Thank you, my friends. I hope that you like my kind of music. I hope that you like me. This is a song about 'Me and Bobby McGee'" The strange grammatical syntax in the second sentence, and that it's not particularly complex makes it sound like something he just picked up for the concert. Anyway, hope this helps. 惑乱 分からん 23:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

That sounds exactly right. He was speaking sort of haltingly and in the middle it sounded like he asked someone "how am i doin'". Anyways, thanks for the translation.--Alhutch 00:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I could have guessed it. Alright, you're welcome. 惑乱 分からん 02:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

timeline of his life

There's something wrong with the timeline. Right now we have:

"His longtime guitarist, Luther Perkins, died in a house fire in August 1968. Less than two months later, the home of his next door neighbor and close friend, Roy Orbison, burned down ... Cash was profoundly affected by these incidents, and he attempted to take the first steps on a long, hard road to recovery. He locked himself in his home and underwent detox, relying heavily on his friends, and especially Carter and her parents, Ezra and Maybelle. He and Carter were married soon after."

And we have:

"Cash proposed onstage to Carter at a concert at the London Gardens in London, Ontario on February 22, 1968; the couple married a week later in Franklin, Kentucky."

When did they marry? --84.61.27.187 00:05, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay. They married in March 1st. I think the first paragraph you listed must have an incorrect date (or could be following the movie timeline, Walk The Line) and should list possibly 1967 as the death of the bandmate. That would put sufficiant time between him dying, John detoxing, and then propsing to June. If they married a week later on February 22, that would put it on March 1st, as per the official website. Disinclination 07:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

American V?

Although the article says "American V, his final album, was released posthumously." I cannot find any reference to this album on Amazon, P2P searches, or anywhere else for that matter. Does this album even exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.225.77 (talk • contribs) (01:05, 6 February 2006)

That should be American IV, someone just made a typo.--Dp462090 02:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Except American IV was released well before his death, so it's even less accurate. Someone edit this to conform to reality? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.225.77 (talk • contribs) (12:56, 9 March 2006)

Ok, but where in the article is it (the section)...--Dp462090 01:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind anything else I've said; American V, is a new album coming out in 2006, but the statement seems to be gone now.--Dp462090 | Talk | Contrib | 02:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

American V: A Hundred Highways will be released on July 4, 2006 Odin's Beard 02:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

fanboy

i love johnny cash but does anyone notice that this article doesn't really contain any genuine criticism or deep analysis of the man his music or his legacy. Most of what doesn't portray him in a positive light is the same kinda stuff that people still use to glorify him as an outlaw or some one with a checkered past. I think our understanding of him would benefit from some real criticism or just counterpoints to some of what is in the article.Cesar.vialpando 02:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

That could be good, but we have to use a NPOV about the whole thing; aswell as sources for criticisms.--Dp462090 00:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Highway 61 Revisited

I recall Johnny Cash giving a spine-chilling reading of the first verse of "Highway 61 Revisited" ("God said to Abraham, kill me a son") in an intro to a movie. Sadly, the movie was shite. But that reading was intense! Any info? --Davecampbell 11:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

GIYF - I found the movie, it's The Hunted. --Davecampbell 01:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Quote Sources

Will someone find the sources for the quotes on the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtFF8 (talk • contribs) (02:34, 28 February 2006)

[4] These seem to be the source, but the quotes are attributed (i.e. are said to be quotes of Johnny, but not known to have been said) to Johnny Cash, so there should be a mention of that or they should be removed.--Dp462090 23:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Full name?

Is there a source for the opening statement that his name is "John Ray Cash"? I thought the "R" was just an initial. Joyous | Talk 13:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the "R" is just an initial, thats according to the thirteen page introduction of the "Cash: the Legend" cd box set written by Patrick Carr. - SlowTrainComin'

It's just like the "S" in Harry S. Truman, in that it might symbolically stand for a family member, but factually it's just the initial and nothing else. In Johnny's case, his birth name was just plain J.R. Cash. He adopted "John" as his first name to avoid hassles in the military. The "R" might have symbolically stood for "Ray", his father's name, but I don't know that Johnny ever adopted that as part of his stage name, especially given his uneasy relationship with his father. In his autobiography, he calls himself "John R. Cash" and I think goes into some detail about the oddities of his name. Wahkeenah 01:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Johnny was simply referred to as J.R. during most of his early life including his childhood and into early adulthood. The idea for calling him Johnny, rather than John, was Sam Philips' idea because Johnny sounded younger than just simply "John". At first, he actually hated being called Johnny. As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure I've heard this from his own mouth during interview footage, that the "R" was just an initial and didn't stand for anything. Odin's Beard 02:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Johnny Cash was born J.R. Cash he never ever had the name "Ray". He was called "John" when in the Air Force, and became "Johnny" at Sun Records, the commercial name preferred by Sam Philips (proprietor of Sun Records). Thank you, Les —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.228.55 (talk • contribs) (09:47, 3 April 2006)

Marriage & Divorce from Vivian Liberto

The article states that he married Liberto in 1955, and then proposed and married June Carter in 1968. Any verified date for his divorce from Liberto? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.159.209.102 (talk • contribs) (00:32, 10 March 2006)

Sometime in 1966: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0143602/bioDp462090 17:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This page contradicts Vivian's page. One says they were married after Johnny's service was complete, the other says he was still in the service. I dunno which is correct, or I would fix it. --68.49.47.119 12:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to this "On July 3, 1954 Cash was discharged from the Air Force. On August 7, 1954 he married Vivian Liberto...", but I'm not sure whether to trust that source, or not.--Dp462090 22:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Too much trivia?

The trivia list is just about as long as the main article. Anyone want to work on a collaborative cleanout? Joyous | Talk 14:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Looking through the "trivia", a fair chunk of it restates info already covered in the article. When I get the chance, I'll see what I can do about that. Also, some of this could be regrouped under "Collaborations" or some such. Hopefully a little consolidating and regrouping will make the trivia section a lot smaller. Wahkeenah 06:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if we had less "Hey some band no one has ever heard of mentioned Johnny Cash in one of their songs!" under the trivia section. --Pathogen 22:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

A couple of months ago, I tried to separate "trivia" from "tributes". Looks like I need to take another look. Wahkeenah 22:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"sanctimonious cloud"

In a related issue, "sanctimonious cloud" is not neutral and is a bit offensive to Christians. User:216.91.36.42 20:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Especially to ones like yourself, hiding behind an IP address. However, I concur that it is an editorial comment. It would be fairer to say that religion became very important to him, even ferverous, as he worked out divorcing himself from his personal demons, especially substance abuse. Wahkeenah 06:02, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Stop Taking Away The Website

I don't know who it is but everytime anyone puts on a new website about Cash the next day it is gone! So why can't we have alot of website like we did a few weeks ago? -Alakey2010 April 24, 2006 | 7:24 PM

Well, you could check the the history, but you can't just add any site, it has to have a real purpose, it can't be just some fan site(not to say what was put there was a fan site, I really have no ieda). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dp462090 (talk • contribs) (00:34, 25 April 2006)

It's all covered pretty clearly by Wiki policy WP:EL. Basically no fansites, spamsites etc. Some fansites are allowed to be used as support citations for actual content. Or if they are clearly authorized by the article subject or artist label, family estate and so on. Hope that helps. Take Care. Anger22 00:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Drug addiction

Cut from article:

He started it because some people gave it to him.

Who says that's the reason? This sentence removes all personal responsibility from him. "They MADE me do it?"

His decision to take addictive drugs was his own choice, I think. If he didn't know the consequences, let's describe the evidence of his ignorance. Maybe he didn't know about the concept of addiction or that the specific pills he was offered might "hook" him. --Uncle Ed 11:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

One item on my to-do list is to re-read his 1997 autobio and fill in some of these gaps. He makes no "look what they made me do arguments" for anything. He was, or became, a man of brutal honesty about himself. As I recall, in general he started to take amphetamines to "keep him going" while on tour. Although he doesn't say this, that also happened to Judy Garland and probably many other performers. In Judy's case it was ultimately fatal. It almost was for Cash, but he found a way out, thanks to friends and faith. He made the analogy with alcoholism: You start drinking from the bottle, and eventually it drinks from you. His occasional relapses, especially after the bizarre incident with the ostrich, was because of painkillers he was administered, which he states as fact without offering it as an excuse. Wahkeenah 11:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Wahkeenah, I rather thought it was something like that. Like many Americans, I look up to Johnny Cash as a hero. Others have made mistakes and become bitter or vengeful hypocrites. Cash took the moral high road of personal responsibility and did the excruciatingly painful work of self-reformation. That's an example everyone needs to know about! --Uncle Ed 12:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Drastic revert

I am going to revert this article to before the massive "biography" delegation that User:Lincalinca. I am going to do so because he did not seem to do much discussion before taking his action. I like his idea of delegating some of the long lists, like all of the awards, but there is no easy way to separate out the musical importance of Cash from his celebrity, personality and family life. Really, the canonical page should be the "biography" and the long lists of awards and such can be delegated, just as the discography has been. -- 64.175.42.87 15:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

How to improve article quality

You know, the encyclopedia should really foucs on prose. Obviously, we want to establish the importance of Johnny Cash, but these long lists of collaborations, awards, trivia, music videos and even the list list of the extended family does not really focus on Cash himself and are not very readable. A few prose statements in the main article and the massive discography (already delegated) establish his importance. I almost want to create a "Johnny Cash lists" page or a "Johnny Cash data" page so that we can gets these lists out of way and focus on the prose of the main article. You know - the stuff that somebody would want to read from start to finish. What I really need is the correct name of the "Johnny Cash lists" article. Any ideas? --64.175.42.87 15:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not getting any objections to just using the suffix "lists". Really, when you normally read an encyclopedic biography, it is still the prose text that matters. I am going to delegate all the list-oriented sections (including the trivia and the long list of relatives) to a separate "lists" page and see if people flip. I note that NNDB/Rotten.com tends to put the "list" on the NNDB page, but their emphasis is slightly different. You could argue that we might benefit from a "Johnny Cash timeline" page as well, again to free up the prose of the main page from having to constantly cite dates. I know that some music fanatics think that Johnny Cash equals his music, but we already had to delegate out the lengthy discography. --64.175.42.87 23:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, folks. How is that? Now, that is a real biography that somebody could imagine reading from start to finish, without having to plow through a bunch of lists. --64.175.42.87 23:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree

I've created a Carter Cash familytree template, which I'll include here, leaving for others to decide if and how to include it in the article.

{{Cash Carter Familytree}}

I added it to Johnny Cash lists where the rest of the family data is. I think it is unfortunate that it ends up having all that extra whitespace on the right-hand side. -- 67.116.253.187 18:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I was planning on adding Johnny's side of the family as well. Of course, as always, anyone is free to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.102.34 (talk • contribs) (10:44, 4 July 2006)

Coincidence

Just realized something today... Cash's song "I've Been Everywhere" was featured in the opening of the remake of Flight of The Phoenix... while Cash was played by Joaquin Phoenix in the movie... does this qualify as trivia? If so, where would it go? Crisco 1492 20:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Not everywhere, that's for sure. Put it on the page for that song, if there is one. Also, see if the song mentions "Phoenix", and also see if you can recall which TV ad it's used in. Wahkeenah 00:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I did it, it doesn't, and it's Choice Hotels. :) Wahkeenah 18:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Original Research

Kudos to whomever cleared up the Songwriters Hall of Fame vs. Nashville Songwriters' Hall of Fame thing, but a phonecall to the former is not a published source. However, the Songwriters Hall of Fame is online (i.e. published) and has a list of inductee exhibits. I don't see any reason to regard that as not definitive and complete, and Cash is not there. --Stellmach 17:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Build the album pages

User:Cromag and I recently revamped Johnny Cash discography and started album pages for most of Cash's catalog. If Johnny Cash is getting too crowded, then add album and song specific info to the relevant album pages. I think that is a more natural fix than spining off information to Johnny Cash - Biography or Johnny Cash lists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcuin (talk • contribs) (03:56, 28 July 2006)

Fair use images disputed

I have tagged a number of the images on this page as fair use disputed - largely because they fail to provide fair use rationales. Please bear in mind that unless the image comes from an official source (electronic press kit ideally), the use of the promo tag is not really acceptable. Megapixie 13:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sun Records

It is impossible that Johnny Cash could have auditioned for Jack Clement at Sun Records. Cash joined Sun in late 1954, while Clement was hired in 1956. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.253.115.145 (talk • contribs) (22:25, 3 August 2006)

I Walk the Line and Cocaine

Hi everyone, EvaBallering (talk • contribs) is trying to state over at I Walk the Line that

...is about the cocaine addiction that Cash developed, which becomes apparent through the lines "I keep a close watch on this heart of mine" and "I keep my eyes wide open all the time".

Is that a commonly held view or one supported by Cash's self-admission in any past interviews? --  Netsnipe  ^(Talk)  07:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Cash was addicted to pills, not cocaine. He covered a song called "Cocaine Blues", so that writer probably is a little confused. Wahkeenah 12:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope we can't take "Cocaine Blues" as authoritative, because if it is, that also means he must've shot his woman down. --Stellmach 14:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Plus, the song that was being quoted was about Johnny being in love with June. :) Not about cocaine. Or about Vivian, if you look on the I Walk The Line songpage here on Wikipedia. To each his or her own.Disinclination 20:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

It was about Vivian. It was a major hit and a great song, and it was also, ultimately, wishful thinking on Johnny's part. Wahkeenah 22:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Why People from Tennesee?

Johnny was from Arkansas. Why is he in the TN category? SlapAyoda 09:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

He lived most of his life in TN, despite being born in AK. Where are you 'from'? The place where you were born, or the place you've lived the bulk of your life? Alcuin 09:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It's like Tiny Tim who was born in New York City, but spent his last few years in Minneapolis (where he fit right in with all these hippies here) and is categorized in "People from Minneapolis" and NOT "People from New York City", which shows how bogus those categories are anyway. Wahkeenah 11:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't suppose there's an official policy or at least a general consensus on the usage of the 'People from...' categories, is there? I've been looking around and they seem to be rather inconsistent from article to article. SlapAyoda 13:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"From" is too vague. "Born in" and "Resident of" would be much clearer. Now all someone has to do is modify a few thousand articles to fix that problem. Wahkeenah 22:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

But he was raised in Arkansas. I think where a person is raised and orginally from is pretty important. 216.98.171.44 23:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

As I said 4 months ago, the category "from"-wherever is poorly defined and poorly used. Wahkeenah 00:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

'Til Kingdom Come

Shouldn't something about the song Coldplay wrote for him be included...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emilyyyy (talk • contribs) (05:58, 14 August 2006)

See the collaborations section of Johnny Cash discography Alcuin 13:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The Night Cash Died

I was talking to someone and they said that Johnny was in so much pain and missed his wife June Carter that he loved so much that he took too many of his pain killers just to stop all the pain and go home. When I heard this I thought this was crazy but I got to thinking that June Carter was not there to stop him anymore and well...maybe...he..did? Does anyone think this too? - Alakey2010 10:17 p.m., 19 August 2006 (CDT)

According to the last interview conducted in Time magazine, as well as outside sources, he refused any pain killers- even after undergoing painful jaw surgery. Recording with Rick Rubin & his faith are what helped him deal with all the pain. No other sources to dispute this have surfaced.Rsm99833 03:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, as I recall this dates back to his trip into detox after getting hooked on his painkillers after (strange to say) that ostrich attack. Certainly with a lot of powerful painkillers being contraindicated by his history of addiction, you'd expect it to have excited more attention from somebody if he were even prescribed them. -Stellmach 22:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

"Hurt" a signature song?

Should "Hurt" be considered one of Cash's signature songs? Signature songs are defined as the song(s) that a successful singer is most identified with. While his cover of "Hurt" was certainly very good and all, I'm not sure that that's really a signature song for him. The other songs listed really do seem to be such- that one just jumps out as being out of place to me. Cheers --DarthBinky 21:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Taken from Hurt (song):

Several years later, "Hurt" was covered by Johnny Cash to great critical acclaim; it was Cash's final hit before his death in 2003. Its accompanying video, featuring images from Cash's life up to his final months, was named the best video of the year by the Grammy Awards and Country Music Awards.

I would think so, based on that informationm and a section in the Hurt article as well. He recorded the whole album, I believe, in his own house. I actually think thats in this (Johnny Cash) article. Disinclination 21:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Right, I've already read the info from the Hurt song and all. According to the article I linked about signature songs, what makes the song 'signature' is not necessarily critical acclaim-it's that the artist is strongly identified with that song. I just don't think Hurt is such. I'm not saying Hurt is a bad song- like I said before, I think his version was very good- I just don't think it's what he's identified with. Ring of Fire, Boy Named Sue, Walk The Line, etc- those are good examples of his signature songs, and are, in fact, listed. Cheers --DarthBinky 22:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

He didn't write the song. He also didn't produce, direct, or write the video. I readily identify JC with "Folsom Prison Blues" and "Ring of Fire" are more than "Hurt", even though it's a poingniant song. -- Mikeblas 22:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Even the actual writer of the song says he feels it isn't his song anymore after seeing Johnny's cover of Hurt. Disinclination 05:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Even so, I wouldn't call it a "signature song". To use a couple of unintentionally bad analogies (sorry, it's the wee hours), it was more like a "swan song" or "going out on a high note". Wahkeenah 09:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's a perfect example of a swan song.--DarthBinky 11:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It isn't for Reznor to say whether it's one of Cash's "signature songs," even if that were what he said (which it wasn't). It has to do with whether it's one of the songs that Cash is most closely identified with, which is a matter of public opinion, not personal opinion. Not Reznor's, yours, or mine. Thus, it's not something we can conclude by discussing it here. It should have a citation, like any matter of public opinion in Wikipedia should. Note that the examples in the signature song article are all cited, and rightly so. -Stellmach 11:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It's based on generation. The people who dig into his music or were listening to him in the '50's will identify him with Big River, Cry Cry Cry or Get Rhythm. People who own hit compilations or were around in the '60s would probably name Ring of Fire as his signature song. People in the '70s who watched the Johnny Cash Show know him from TV and might call A Boy Named Sue his signature song, etc. People from this generation might know Hurt best, but that is probably overshadowed by the movie, in which case Folsom Prison will probably be his signature song. If you take signature song in its performance art meaning, then it would be Man in Black. He wrote it about himself, literally as a signature song. This is all arguing over semantics, of course, but naming Hurt as a signature song is a strange choice in the context of his entire career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.194.46.42 (talk • contribs) (23:28, 18 March 2007)

Is this discussion still ongoing, or did it run out in Dec '06? The question seems to me to be worth settling. I just read the Cash article as a complete newcomer, and the inclusion of "Hurt" as a signature song struck me as very odd. The signature song article says there are "one or a few" songs that an artist is "most associated" with. Here are listed seven songs! Johnny's rendering of "Hurt" is staggering beautiful, but you don't imagine the band playing that choice as he walks out onto the "Late Show." Can you? What if this sentence said "His many hit songs include ..."? Wouldn't that be more accurate and less controversial? Hult041956 21:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Busted?

The song Busted leads to another page with no mention whatsoever of Johnny Cash. Is the page being linked to just uninformative or is the link sloppy and wrong? Did Johnny Cash cover the song from 2001? -- Horkana 05:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Nor do the links Big River, Second Honeymoon, Bad News, Rock Island Line, Flesh and Blood, Allegheny, and Mobile Bay lead any place particularly useful. And several of the other links lead to articles about albums, not their title tracks. So, "sloppy and wrong" would be correct; it needs a lot of cleaning up. This whole thing should also more properly be organized under Johnny Cash discography anyway. -Stellmach 15:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Whew. I moved the entire section over to Johnny Cash discography and removed the unnecessary Wiki links; I also corrected a couple of the latter. It's a gigantic section, so I'm undecided on whether it should actually be anywhere, but on the other hand, it is quite informative and it's useful to have all this info in one place (I myself know that it's hard work checking each of the album pages if one's interested in singles charts; plus, some of Cash's singles were never released on an album). We might not be able to get the article back to featured status just yet, but moving everything to where it belongs will definitely help. In any case, I just wanted to thank the original Wikipedian who inserted the singles list on the page, because it seems quite obvious that it was rather tiring. Cromag 21:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Something Doesn't Add Up

The wiki for Johnny says he was 71 when he died. Yet Rosanne Cash's page says she's 59, that would make Johnny 12 years old when Rosanne was born. Somewhere there is a mistake. Rosanne is either younger, or Johnny was older. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.133.69.65 (talk) 09:42, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind. My mistake, He was 23 when Rosanne was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.133.69.65 (talk) 09:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Most influential musicians

Opus88888 has taken it upon himself to repeatedly blank out the referenced claim that Cash is "one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century", simply because Opus regards this as "exaggeration". I warned Opus not to remove sourced information without offering a sufficient reason, but he ignored me, and even encouraged me to report him for vandalism. It does not matter if Opus regards the claim as exaggeration, in fact, it does not matter what Opus or any other editor thinks, referenced information cannot be removed simply because we disagree with it. Period. I encourage other editors to join in this discussion. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 14:30, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Cash is "one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century" is indeed an exaggeration and is not what the cited source says. The unnamed writer of the obituary in Eugene's The Register-Guard describes Cash as "one of the most influential pupular (sic) music stars – especially in the areas of country music and rock 'n' roll – of the 20th century." The exaggeration is made worse by linking to 20th-century music, a vast field where Cash's influence is obviously limited. Moreover, the principles outlined at WP:NEWSORG recommend to disregard a statement like this altogether. On balance, given the prominent position of this claim and the principle of "extraordinary claims need extraordinary sources", I agree with its removal. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:29, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for examining the issues involved, Michael. I have no opinion about the claim one way or the other, though there is also an NYT ref. for the claim, as well. My point from the beginning, and what I said above, is that he offered no valid reason, never even attempted to do so, for his blanking the information. He is just as capable as you or I to come to the talk page and make his case for it's removal. I believe valid sources can be found for the claim, but that does not mean it belongs in the lede. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 01:42, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree with your point that User:Opus88888 should have engaged in discussion. BTW, I can't see how the NYT article supports this specific claim ("most influential"); the author, Stephen Holden, mentions JC's influence on rock 'n' roll and writes of his "incalculable influence on music", but I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean (all of) "the music of the 20th century". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

A more narrow wording about his influence on rock and country would be easier to cite. The music of the 20th century link should never have been added, clearly. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 14:52, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Native American Heritage

The article's assertion Though he did not have Native American ancestry may require references; in Pete Seeger's Rainbow Quest (around the 32:00 mark) John tells Pete that he was part Cherokee and "proud of it", and whether or not he was, he certainly believed he was at the time of writing those songs. --Teledyn (talk) 15:49, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Humanitarianism and Activism

I have been doing independent research on Johnny Cash's humanitarian and activist work. I have compiled several credible sources while doing this research that I would be glad to share to help improve Cash's Wikipedia page. I do not, however, know how to cite articles on the Wikipedia page. If I supplied links to the sources, is there anyone who would be willing to create a properly cited "Humanitarianism and Activism" section to Cash's page? There is certainly enough material to justify a section. (Darth Septic (talk) 02:51, 10 December 2013 (UTC))

Awkward wording

The book reportedly does not hold back any details about the darker side of Johnny Cash and includes details about his affair with his pregnant wife June Carter's sister.[95]

is a bit awkward in the wording department. How about "The book reportedly does not hold back any details about the darker side of Johnny Cash and includes details about his affair with June Carter's sister, which occurred while June Carter was pregnant.[95]"? 168.159.213.58 (talk) 18:35, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2014

why not?

108.225.164.224 (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

 Not done - Because.... Arjayay (talk) 18:57, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

His Name

Why does it say "John R. "Johnny" Cash"? His name was JR. Just the initials. His birth name is stated correctly in the background information section. His name was not, and has never been John. His family called him JR, his wife called him JR and he was registered as JR. His stage name was Johnny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fndeboer (talk • contribs) 18:45, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Did you look at the inscription on his grave? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:28, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

PS: … and http://www.johnnycash.com/biography.html ? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:29, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The article clearly states that he changed his name to John R for military service, and since he bought his first guitar while stationed in Germany, that pre-dates his celebrity. --Teledyn (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Something else that doesn't add up

In the section on Cash's early life, he is listed as the fourth of five children, but when the names of the siblings are given it appears that there were in fact seven children in the Cash family. One or other of these pieces of information is clearly wrong; I'm guessing the former but perhaps a Cash expert out there could set the record straight one way or the other.Brooklyn Eagle (talk) 22:38, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Corrected. Thanks for pointing this out, Brooklyn Eagle. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:49, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Children

In the info box should it say which were his biological and/or step children? I couldn't work it out from his page and had to click on the individual links (where there are any) to find out. 109.149.66.89 (talk) 20:13, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

That's a good question. I don't know that WP:BLP or WP:MOS guidelines have any specific criteria where this is concerned, but it seems to me if the children were legally adopted, convention would be not to make that distinction, at least not in the infobox. These distinctions should, however, generally be discussed in the prose sections and in this case the article could stand for a little more detail as regards familial relationships. Snow talk 09:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Can I get some thoughts on a change of photo for the infobox?

It's purely a stylistic matter, but I much favour File:JohnnyCash1969.jpg for the infobox photo; it captures Cash closer towards the middle of his career (and arguably at the height of his popularity) and typifies the "Man in Black" persona and image that came to be so closely associated with him. And I just think it's a more encyclopedic-looking choice for lead photo than an autograph. Thoughts? Snow talk 09:17, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I really like the new photo. It indeed reflects the image of him that was his popular image. Nice choice. Rocket-Fueled (talk) 03:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Ancestry

I don't think it can be confidently asserted what his ancestry was. He certainly could have been partially Native American, as he once believed. His appearance would support this, but it would also support a Scottish ancestry. It is false to assume the official birth, death, and marriage records are correct, particularly in an era when illegitimacy and racism were burning issues.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

At present we have three distinct reliable sources which support this claim. And note that the claim is not that he had proven genetic markers for a given heredity, but that he researched his ancestry and these were his results. That fact is amply sourced by the references in question and I don't see a policy-consistent argument for removing the mention. Snow talk 05:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it should be removed, but I think the issue could be presented more neutrally. To the issues raised above, I think it is worthwhile noting that his ancestors were hillbillies (which he never denied) and not necessarily literate. I don't think references which cite the opinions of train spotters should completely obliterate common sense.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Well claims of absolute ancestry are almost always uncertain short of genetic testing, whether the people trying to establish them are hillbillies or bluebloods. But again, no claim of absolute ancestry is being made here; the article only states that Cash investigated the matter (using the genealogical techniques that were common at the time -- and still are) and that he came to certain conclusions about his ancestry. We don't need to know the quality of the evidence he turned up in order to assert what he himself believed. All of that said, if the crux of your concerns is neutral wording, it can't hurt to examine that, but can you be more specific? Do you mean, for example, that where it says "Cash Loch and other locations in Fife bear his family name." we should instead say "Cash Loch and other locations in Fife bear the same name as his family."? On a separate note, I don't currently see any mention of the possible Native American ancestry. Was that present at some point but removed for sourcing issues or is it just a tidbit about what Cash believed that you had previous knowledge of separate from work on the article? Snow talk 03:27, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

See Section 3 above. In the article, Bitter Tears: Ballads of the American Indian, it says:

Cash had been convinced that his ancestry included members of the Cherokee tribe, and this partly served as inspiration for recording Bitter Tears, but later on as he began researching his ancestry, he actually had no Cherokee ancestry, but Scottish, English, and Scots-Irish ancestry.

This is borne out by the cover of the album which shows Cash dressed as a Native American. I think the wording in Wikipedia clearly implies a certainty that isn't justified.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:15, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I think we could fix that some by adding a reference to that article: if we show that Cash at first thought his ancestry was Cherokee and then later Scottish, then we demonstrate further that this belief was based upon his personal research using genealogical resources and presumably family lore -- though of course, there's no reason he couldn't have been of both heritages. I personally think the present wording makes it clear that his Scottish ancestry was established only by his own research and not anything more absolute, but as you have a concern that it's ambigous, I think the best way to underscore the nature of the evidence is to point out that he had to different interpretations at different times (though, to be fair, do we know that he abandoned the Cherokee belief for the Scottish one, or did he assume both to be true?) Snow talk 01:42, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2015

Please add in after "Cash felt great compassion for prisoners.", even though he only spent three days in jail during his entire life. ["Cash, Johnny - At Folsom Prison." Encyclopedia of Popular Music, 4th ed. Ed. Colin Larkin. Oxford Music Online. Oxford University Press. Web. 23 Feb. 2015.] Todwoodrow (talk) 00:54, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

 Done [5], on AGF. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 20:20, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

What does the "R" stand for in his name?

The article doesn't indicate what the R stands for in his name. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 18:47, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

The "R" doesn't stand for anything. His parents named him "J.R." but he was not permitted to use initials as his legal first (and middle) name in joining the Air Force, so self-selected "John" as his first name (and legally changed it). Hence the "R" is just "R".Dwpaul ^Talk 19:03, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

This should be indicated (that the R doesn't stand for anything). I'm sure one of the biographies can be used as a citation. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 22:10, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's in the early life section. --Onorem (talk) 22:18, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

If anyone has an account with TV Tropes.org, they say the R stands for Robert. If that's erroneous, someone might want to go over there and correct it. See [6]. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 22:54, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

As an avid WWII researcher, I've come across many instances in which a person with only initials for a given name has served in the United States Armed Forces under just those initials, so I don't see that as a likely explanation as to how/why he adopted the name John R. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.10.86 (talk) 17:41, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

That is what our cited source (the Streissguth biography) says here. Unless you can find another citable source with another theory, that is what the article should state. Dwpaul ^Talk 17:46, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I have taken this from the article: "Johnny was listed as John R Cash in the 1940 census. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQKF-J35 " No doubt people will describe it as original research, but it does cast doubt on the story given in the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:19, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

White House song list

The article says the April 1970 performance at the White House included the song "Man in Black" (which according to other sources wasn't introduced until 1971) and "Ballad of Ira Hayes". The Columbia/Legacy CD "Bootleg Vol. III: Live Around the World" purports to have the complete White House show, and neither song is listed. According to the CD, the song list was A Boy Named Sue, Five Feet High and Rising, Pickin Time, Wreck of the Old 97, Lumberjack, Jesus Was a Carpenter, What is Truth, Peace in the Valley, He Turned the Water Into Wine, Were You There, Daddy Sang Bass and The Old Account. I placed a citation/fact tag on this in case there's a source to indicate that these two songs were indeed included (and thus omitted by Columbia Records in its release, which is possible, as after Nixon's opening remarks the CD goes into A Boy Named Sue and Cash is heard referring to it as his second song), even though I thought "Man in Black" wasn't performed for the first time until 1971 (but certainly the idea of him previewing a new song for the president isn't out of the question). 68.146.52.234 (talk) 22:10, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

The song list is given at the cited ref:

Cash followed “Sue” with several songs: How High is the Water, Pickin’ Time, Wreck of Old 97, Lumberjack, Jesus Was a Carpenter, What Is Truth?, I Wish I Had Someone to Love Me, Folsom Prison Blues.

He was then joined by June Carter and they sang “Jackson” and “Darlin Companion.” For “Peace in the Valley” and “He Turned the Water into Wine,” his backup was the Statler Brothers and the Carter Family. For “Daddy Sang Bass,” he was joined by Carl Perkins, June Carter, the Statler Brothers, and the Carter Family. The end of the performance was a bravura medley with June Carter reprising “Folsom Prison Blues,” Mother Maybelle and the Carter Family singing “I Walk the Line,” the Statler Brothers (“Ring of Fire”), Carl Perkins (“Folsom Prison Blues”), and Johnny Cash with the Tennessee Three singing “Johnny Yuma.” The finale was the entire cast singing the valedictory “Suppertime.” [7]

No mention here of either Man In Black or Ira Hayes. Dwpaul ^Talk 22:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

The source doesn't list them all, though, as "Five Feet High and Rising", for example, is not mentioned, while there are other songs mentioned that are not included in the "complete" show featured on Bootleg III. So it's possible Ira Hayes and Man in Black were still performed unless someone has heard the complete recording or the Congressional Record has the complete song list or something like that! 68.146.52.234 (talk) 22:53, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

It's possible, though I would expect the Nixon Library to be the authoritative source for an event that occurred in the Nixon White House. I'd guess the blog entry was pretty thoroughly researched before it was posted. Recording companies have been known to throw a few extra tracks, sometimes not what they purport to be (different sessions, etc.), on an album before. Dwpaul ^Talk 22:58, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

The Johnny Cash Infocenter site has a (nearly) complete set list. No Ira Hayes and no Man in Black though there is a "Closing Medley" listed that doesn't indicate what songs are included (though the ones suggested above sound likely). But there are definitely tracks not included on the CD such as Jackson, Suppertime. The sites says however that the first song is indeed missing from the audio and it doesn't say what song that would be. I can't imagine Cash would start a show with a downer like Ira Hayes; it was more likely I Walk the Line or Ring of Fire, even if Line was included in the medley later.[8] 68.146.52.234 (talk) 15:09, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

But what do the Nixon Tapes say?--Jack Upland (talk) 08:33, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Chicken in Black

I have rewritten the paragraph involving this infamous recording, as the latest major biography of Cash, Robert Hilburn's Johnny Cash: A Life, gives a completely different account of how the song came to be, most significantly, that Cash did not record it to sabotage his contract; Columbia offered it to him and Cash was hoping for another A Boy Named Sue, and he only soured on the song when Waylon Jennings said he looked silly in the music video. Since the previous account did not have a citation, I have replaced it with this major source. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

It would be good to get another source on this. Who wrote the song? I don't think it's a bad song in any case, and it's not out of line with other humourous songs Cash performed. There are other websites which repeat the previous account, but they aren't reliable sources, and could be based on Wikipedia.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:44, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

According to sources like Discogs.com and this, it was written by Gary Lee Gentry, who also wrote "We Didn't See a Thing" for George Jones and Ray Charles. Very little about him online though. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:54, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

The origin seems mysterious. Did Gentry write a parody of Cash and then offer it to Columbia for Cash to sing?--Jack Upland (talk) 09:26, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

There is some background information here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:50, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

That's the book I sourced for this information. Hilburn was a journalist who profiled Cash for decades and he wrote the book based on interviews done with Cash himself, among others. As the most recent major biography of Cash it's probably safe to call it a definitive source unless a reliable source is located to debunk the story. It should also be noted that YouTube has a 1984 Christmas Special that Johnny Cash made for TV that features the Chicken in Black video near the very start of the show. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 02:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

This 2014 article in The Guardian about the Out Among the Stars album also gives a similar story regarding Chicken in Black, that it was an earnest recording and not a protest: [9] 68.146.52.234 (talk) 19:19, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Guitar playing style

Has there been anything written about Cash's unusual guitar playing style? Many clips of him performing show him strumming his guitar way up on the frets. Was this possibly an attempt at doing the "boom-chicka-boom" effect without the piece of paper under the strings? 68.146.52.234 (talk) 02:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Abuse of sources and edit warring

Johnny Cash was the first punk? And this is what opens his legacy? Sorry, but the sources say nothing of the sort, and the misinterpreted claim is ludicrously UNDUE. What's worse is that Jack Upland has nearly WP:3RRed despite having already been warned. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:01, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

The history shows you abusively deleted someone else's text (not mine) on the grounds that it didn't fit the two sources given. Attempting to take notice of your complaints, I then substituted a reworded text which quoted one of the sources, which you also deleted, saying that I shouldn't "misrepresent the sources in such a bald-faced manner". These sources were entitled "The Original Punk Rocker" and "Johnny Cash Made the Most Punk Rock Album Ever. In 1969." I don't think any of the deleted sentences were bald-faced misrepresentations. I didn't comply with your request to take it to the talk page, because I really have nothing much to say about whether Cash was a punk. But "Hurt" was one of his last hits...--Jack Upland (talk) 04:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

The article claimed "Cash's rebellious image and often anti-authoritarian stance have been credited by some with influencing punk rock."—a claim not made in either of the sources cited. Aggravating this egregious misrepresentation of the sources, this was the opening sentence of the "Legacy" section. This is unacceptable, and reinstating (even reworded versions of) the text is even worse. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:47, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Why??? My rewording actually quoted from one of the articles. How would you sum up the articles accurately??? And how is a complaint about the placement of text a justification for deleting it???--Jack Upland (talk) 06:02, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't, unless there were some sort of general consensus on Cash's relation to punk. On top of that, you're otherwise claiming his primary legacy is his (extraordinarily tenuous if at all existent) relation to punk—actual giving it more prominence than his relation to, y'know', country music. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I think you just object to the topic being mentioned. OK, but I don't really understand the "filth and the fury".--Jack Upland (talk) 07:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I think you're grasping at straws and have made no effort to comprehend why the material might be objectionable. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:20, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Awards and Honours

In the 2nd para, we have ...presence in four major music halls of fame:... which are named, but in the next sentence we see ...and only Hank Williams Sr., Jimmie Rodgers, Bob Wills, and Bill Monroe share the honor with Cash of being in all three. So what's what here? Which 3? Or should that be four? 203.59.137.85 (talk) 09:33, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Stalin

He was the first radio operator to pick up the news of the death of Joseph Stalin.

Is this true? This says he was the first American to hear about Stalin's death. This would imply he could speak Russian, which I think is false. If the message was encrypted, the Soviet military would have been using one-time pads which at this point would have been unbreakable. That source talks about "cracking" Morse Code, which doesn't really make sense; it's just a matter of transcription. So what did Cash actually do?--Jack Upland (talk) 14:45, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, this has been discussed before and the basis for this claim is flimsy. My recollection is that it was decided to remove this, but I could be misremembering. As you say, there's no reason to believe he spoke or understood Russian or was a codebreaker. As I believe I've said previously, I find this claim dubious and would favor its removal. Thanks for pointing this out. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 18:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have checked the archives. We do have a source, and I think if true this is notable. I just wonder what he actually did. "Pick up" isn't very specific. Apparently this comes from his autobiography, but I'm not clear on what he actually said. Clearly he was working as a radio operator when Stalin died, and there would have been some kerfuffle about that. I suspect he remembered that, and fashioned it into a presentable anecdote...--Jack Upland (talk) 18:57, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I looked it up, too. I'm not sure if I removed the information back then or not, just can't remember. I followed the link to Google Books, but the book isn't searchable, so that was no help. I am not saying Cash was lying, but I don't find this claim believable. It just doesn't seem possible. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 19:12, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

This quotes the autobiography and a later biography. If the quote is accurate, Cash said: "I copied the first news of Stalin’s death". If the message was unencrypted, he could have copied the transmission and passed it to a translator who could tell him it was about Stalin's death. He doesn't claim he was the first American to know, and doesn't make a big deal about it. It looks like people have taken "first news" literally. I think he meant the breaking news of Stalin's death, which I guess the Soviet government was sending out to everyone...--Jack Upland (talk) 20:16, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I have confirmed the quote from Steve Turner (The Man Called Cash, p 46):

While he was, in fact, at Landsberg on March 5, 1953, the day Joseph Stalin died, his comment in Cash: The Autobiography that "I was who they called when the hardest jobs came up. I copied the first news of Stalin's death" brings a wry smile to the faces of those who worked with him. "That's nonsense," says one. "He didn't understand Russian, and if it came in code we wouldn't have been able to decipher it anyway. It created a certain aura about his skill that in my view was directly related to his celebrity."

The other books I have checked — Garth Campbell, Johnny Cash: He Walked the Line, and Robert Hilburn, Johnny Cash: The Life — don't seem to mention it.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:48, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I have now checked what Stephen Miller, the source used in this article, said: "John was the first operator to pick up news of the death of Joseph Stalin in 1953." There is no footnote. As with Cash's autobiography, it is only one sentence. It doesn't explain what Cash did, and it doesn't explain what "first" means: the first on the base, the first in the US Army in Germany, the first American, the first in the West... It seems that the sources which make grandiose claims about it are tabloid websites: [10][11]. The grandiose claims seem false. While he probably did intercept news about Stalin's death, he wouldn't have been able to read it himself, and it wouldn't have been a major intelligence breakthrough. I think this should be removed from the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:24, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for tracking this down. I agree with its removal. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:53, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Done.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:07, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

"High profits"? By what standard? Compared to what?

This statement "an era in which oil companies made high profits while consumers suffered through high gasoline prices and shortages" is unsubstantiated, inflammatory and not necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeromeg52 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to profits and have added a link to the 1970s energy crisis so readers can understand the context.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:59, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

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Sentence in Lead

I had removed the sentence "During the last stage of his career, Cash covered songs by several late 20th-century rock artists, notably "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails, "One" by U2, and "Personal Jesus" by Depeche Mode." from the lead. TheOldJacobite restored it saying "It is sourced and covered in detail later in the article." TheOldJacobite did remove One by U2. My question is where is this sourced and covered in detail later in the article? The only place "Depeche Mode" and "Personal Jesus" are mentioned inthe article is in that sentence. "Hurt" and "Nine Inch Nails" are mentioned in the "Last Years" section in this sentence; "The video for "Hurt," a cover of the song by Nine Inch Nails, from American IV, received particular critical and popular acclaim." (With the citation needed tag) "Hurt" is mentioned again in the "Legacy" section, but just that a museum that later burned down was featured in the music video. "Hurt" is again mentioned in the "Awards and honors" section. Where it was nominated for 6, winning 1 VMA. I do not see how that sentence is sourced or discussed in detail any where in the article. ~ GB fan 16:47, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

That sentence does encapsulate the last phase of his career pretty well. He covered several popular songs in his last album releases and the music video for "Hurt" got tons of airplay. Even Trent Reznor would comment on how good the cover was. That said, this phase of Cash's career is woefully covered in the article body and you are correct that it isn't adequately written about or sourced. I'd be inclined to leave that sentence in the lead, copy it into the Last Years section, and tag it as needing sources. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 17:19, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I think it belongs in the lead.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:30, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

The lead is supposed to summarize the information in the article. That sentence does not summarize what the rest of the article says and isn't sourced. Why does it belong? ~ GB fan 22:56, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

I've now added more detail about these final releases in the "Last years" section including citations to secondary sources discussing the releases and their reception. I think an argument could be made for making "Last years" a subheading of "Career" instead of its own section since it discusses some of his final releases. Hopefully you are satisfied that this addresses your concerns. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 23:58, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Confusing "Early life"

As of 2017-06-05, the second paragraph of the "Early life" section begins, "At birth, Cash was named J. R. Cash.[23] When Cash enlisted in the United States Air Force, he was not permitted to use initials as a first name,[citation needed] so he changed his name to John R. Cash. In 1955, when signing with Sun Records, he took Johnny Cash as his stage name.[8] The Cash children were Roy, Margaret Louise, Jack, J. R., Reba, Joanne, and Tommy. Tommy Cash also became a successful country artist.[24][25] In March 1935, ... ."

I'm confused by jumping from 1932 to 1955 to 1935. "The Cash children" are Johnny's sibs or children?

Beyond clarifying "The Cash children", I think the 1955 event might be better later in this section. DavidMCEddy (talk) 03:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I hope I've clarified this. I think the information about his name should be kept together, but in a separate paragraph to minimise the confusion with chronology.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:53, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

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