Q: Why is the attack not marked as a "Hamas victory" or "Israeli victory"?
A: After a long discussion involving over 40 editors, it was decided that the result of the attack has no consensus. In the discussion, there was a split consensus for the attack being a "Hamas victory" and for the attack's result being "Inconclusive".
This article was nominated for deletion on 13 October 2023. The result of the discussion was keep.
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The goriest content could be moved to a sub-article about a specific attack so people aren't drawn to it reading an overview of the events of the day. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a suitable alternative location for the two death videos I see on the page now. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 19:24, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The larger problem is that the sourcing of the videos are Reddit threads, which are not reliable sources, and their descriptions are not reliably sourced either. The caption of one says "Militants kill an Israeli Jew and an Israeli Arab in Sderot" while the filename is "Hamas terrorists execute a mother father in their car. A little girl and her baby brother in the backseats stayed in the car for hours and were later rescued." So which is it, and how is this sourced? FunkMonk (talk) 00:37, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel → 7 October attacks – I have little opinion on this, but given how the last RM unfolded, a focused discussion on a shorter title needs to be held. The arguments in favor of this change are, primarily, that is more concise and common. I have chosen "7 October attacks" because it was the most commonly suggested version in the previous RM, but other variations are not off the table. —Compassionate727(T·C)20:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose as no good reason to move has been supplied, thus the status quo must remain. No need for a very short article name (redirects exist), when the current name is short enough. Neither is there a universal name used by all for this terrorist attack on Israel. ~ MathmoTalk08:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is rarely a universal name for anything, and universality is not part of the decision procedure.
The fact that, according to the API, the direct page views for the last 30 days are ~6224 whereas the page views including redirects for the last 30 days are ~328367 is probably a clue that there may be room for improvement. Sean.hoyland (talk) 10:32, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, was it only 2 days. I didn't notice. How come there's another requested move so soon? Or I suppose a better question is, what does "given how the last RM unfolded" mean specifically? Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was a run of editors that pressed for the rather uninformative short form title, such that the closer thought a new RM addressing just that was appropriate. Selfstudier (talk) 16:30, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see. The "I also find it necessary to hold another RM on the proposed shorter title, which I will begin shortly." was probably a clue too had I been paying attention. Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:41, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support the proposed title per WP:CONCISION, this is the primary topic for attacks conducted on the seventh of October. Albeit not as used in reliable sources as much, I’d suggest others like 7 October attack on Israel or 7 October Hamas-led attack as well.
Oppose. I agree that the current title is a bit clunky, but the proposed new one is simply not precise enough. Remember, we have to title things for the long term and for international audiences. --Aquillion (talk) 01:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose October 7 attacks will probably be the most common name across other Wikipedia articles as link but as article titles go the current one is fine. Galamore (talk) 10:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't think the current title is "clunky", however the primary concern is that the new title would obscure the nature of the incident. Hogo-2020 (talk) 08:24, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The current name is descriptive and it disambiguates it from other attacks that occurred on the 7th October in the region. Also, it isn't too long. IJA (talk) 10:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I don't think "Hamas" should be in the title anyhow since there were a wide spectrum of Palestinian armed groups participating in the attacks. And it's pretty clear that there's only one major attack that happened on October 7. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 15:51, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ HadesTTW - It says "Hamad-led attack" because Hamas led the attack. The attack was organised and led by Hamas. All the commanders and leaders were from Hamas. To describe it as an "Hamas-led attack" is entirely factual and descriptive, and it also accounts for the fact that other groups were also involved in the attack. And other major attacks also occurred on the 7 October in the early 21st century such as the 2000 Hezbollah cross-border raid and the 2004 Sinai bombings. The current title disambiguates it from these other attacks that also occurred on the 7 October. IJA (talk) 17:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2024
Not done: that's not how WP:CAT works. We cannot describe as a fact (that's what that category is suggesting) what isn't mentioned in the article as such. M.Bitton (talk) 01:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The first sentence of the background section should be omitted. It is improper to refer to the territories as "Palestinian territories" as prior to 1967 the referenced territories were under the control of Jordan and Egypt and were thus not "Palestinian territories". Also, if the goal is to provide historical background then why stop/start at 1967? If referencing the territories then perhaps it should begin with 1948 with the establishment of Israel. Also the term occupation seems intentionally misleading given that the note attached to it admits that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and neglects to mention that Egypt also has enacted a blockade and controls a land border with Gaza. 100.34.147.138 (talk) 03:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done These are controversial changes that would need discussion, and the current uses seem to be supported by reliable sources. If you wish to add content, you'll need to provide the specific wording and sources, but bear in mind that this article is very, very long and it's unlikely that tangential details will gain support for inclusion. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The numbers in the box on the right do not match those inside the text. It appears the numbers in the box on the right are not updated with the latest updated by Israel which decreased the casualties to 1139 (as explained in the main text). AyubuZimbale (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: that's not how WP:CAT works. We cannot describe as a fact (that's what that category is suggesting) what isn't mentioned in the article as such. M.Bitton (talk) 01:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)