Talk:Fraser T. Smith

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External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 13 March 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved, per consensus. @Yaksar: In the article it is nowhere mentioned that it his stage name. If a reliable source states so, please feel free to open another move discussion. —usernamekiran(talk) 17:36, 20 March 2018 (UTC)



Fraser T SmithFraser T. SmithWP:SPACEINITS. Not without precedent: [1]. --woodensuperman 16:13, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

  • Support WP:SPACEINITS. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:14, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:58, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per nom and WP:SPACEINITS. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:29, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose Hold up. The guideline referred to above may provide guidance in the case of initials, but it is not a blanket rule that all individual letters require a period after it. In this case, it seems that Fraser T Smith is the name this artist performs/writes under as their stage name. We should therefore instead be using what seems to be the official and correct name, which per the subject's official pages (website, twitter, disc art) is the current title, also seen in sources like the BBC.--Yaksar (let's chat) 06:06, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post move comment[edit]

Good close. Before raising another RM, consider also that the one oppose appears to be a personal view of what is the correct article name, and cites only primary sources. Andrewa (talk) 17:46, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Discography[edit]

Woodensuperman removed the discography section of this article (this), saying "Unreferenced and way too detailed...". I restored it, and Woondensuperman has removed again, citing WP:FANCRUFT.

Many musician articles contain discographies, or indeed there are separate discography articles. Therefore, the content removed appears to me to be entirely appropriate detail for a musician. WP:FANCRUFT is of course just an essay, not policy, and nothing in it refers to music/musician articles. It is generally cited in the context of covering fiction. So I am unclear why it is being mentioned at all.

Consider these articles: Captain Cuts#Discography, Stormzy discography, Necro production discography, T-Minus_(record_producer)#Discography], Salaam_Remi#Production_discography. They show a range of different ways of formatting the information, but they all show a comparable level of detail to the discography we had here. Thus, I don't see any justification for Woodensuperman's concerns over the level of detail or "cruft".

Woodensuperman has also raised the issue of referencing. Discographies, as with those examples, are often poorly referenced, but they (including this one) are generally full of internal links to other articles where sufficient citations are given. We can also use AllMusic. Bondegezou (talk) 13:36, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

It's an absolute mess. It lists every track of every album he's ever worked on. We do not need to go into anywhere near as much detail as this, perhaps follow some of the better examples you mention above. Also note that I was just restoring to an earlier edit, although I agree with Rayman60 who removed it initially. --woodensuperman 13:46, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
My view is it is excessive, poor, unreferenced and on balance, not suitable. It can easily be argued that Led Zep's entire discography is encyclopaedic, but where do we draw the line? Not every work by every artist that meets WP:Music needs to be archived here, we're not a repository in the discogs sense. Other sites serve that purpose. Also related to this issue, an SPA (COI) put together this content and another SPA (COI) fought for the removal revert. Rayman60 (talk) 16:55, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Woodensuperman, many of the examples I give also list individual tracks, although the way they do that varies and we could look at alternative formatting. Does this mean you would be OK with a listing of singles/albums rather than of individual tracks? Or, indeed, of a listing that displays individual tracks in a way that takes up less space? Thank you for pointing out that it was Rayman60 who first removed it.
Rayman60, I wasn't aware of the SPA/COI editing. You should flag the article if you think that's appropriate. However, that's rather beside the point here. I think this content should be here. Numerous musician articles have discographies, not all of the fame of Led Zeppelin. Are you seeking to remove discographies from other musician articles? Smith is a significant producer who's worked on lots of award-winning albums: if he doesn't warrant a discography, then 75% of the discographies I see would have to go! That seems silly to me. As per WP:NOTPAPER, this is useful and relevant information. If you're interested in a musician, you're interested in the work he's done.
There is perhaps a broader issue here, so I'll alert WikiProject Musicians. Bondegezou (talk) 17:23, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm catching up on the background here. There used to be a separate discography article, see here. Rayman60 turned that into a redirect in this edit based on lack of references. Given references aplenty exist (and are in linked to articles), I would suggest restoring that discography article and leaving the discography out of this article. Thoughts? Bondegezou (talk) 17:29, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
The discography is a mess and is unusable in its current form. If included at either article it needs to be a lot more concise. --woodensuperman 09:09, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
  • It isn't necessarily unreasonable for this article to contain a discography — but it's not really helpful for it to contain such an insanely long list of every individual song credit he has, especially when it so frequently lists four or five separate entries for multiple songs on the same album. A discography which just listed the albums on which he has credits, instead of every individual song on that album that he worked on, might be a better alternative. Bearcat (talk) 18:13, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Bearcat. So if I recreated this, but collapsed rows to one per album, would that seem sensible? Bondegezou (talk) 16:05, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, that would make more sense to me. One option, if desired, would be to add a "songs" column, so that all of the involved songs could still appear in the list — for example, looking at the 21 separate entries where the artist is Rick Wakeman and the album is Return to the Centre of the Earth, those would be collapsed into a single entry for the album, but adding a songs column to the table would permit the individual songs to still be named within that single entry. But then again, looking at the Return to the Centre of the Earth article, it's painfully clear that basically he played on the entire album, so it may not be necessary to list the individual songs in that case — but for albums where he has credits on just one or two songs and not on others, it might be more useful. Bearcat (talk) 23:11, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

It has been re-added through lazy subterfuge. Quite clearly the same people/person who has tried previously attempted to get it added trying a new tactic. None of the issues such as fancruft/references addressed. Rayman60 (talk) 21:12, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi all, could you please restore the verified discografy list? This is vital information for people who wants to consult the repertoire of the artists and songwriters involved in the creation process. Or are you planing to delete EVERY artist/songwriter/composer work from Wikipedia? Where's the good faith on your editing?

~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inca28a (talkcontribs) 08:40, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello again,

It would be much appreciated if you can restore the discography and songwriting credits. One thing that should be taken in consideration, is that Fraser T Smith is not only a music producer and prolific songwriter, but a multi-instrumentalist, reason why the list is so detailed and make sense that one song have the contribution, because that's exaclty what makes it accurate. --Inca28a (talk) 19:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

COI[edit]

Codetopixels is an SPA whose only concern is this article. The issue has been raised before but they choose to ignore it and continue to amend this article. A clear COI. Rayman60 (talk) 21:10, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 September 2019[edit]

Please, could you very kindly add the "associated acts" to this page: Inca28a (talk) 16:40, 23 September 2019 (UTC) Inca28a (talk) 16:40, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. NiciVampireHeart 16:49, 23 September 2019 (UTC)