Talk:Lecrae

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References[edit]

This article concerning LeCrae has been cited as not having been referenced. I am not sure if someone has recently explored this article, but there are clearly references used in this article. In light of the fact that it is already sourced, I believe that the status of the article should be changed. Drean20 22:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

yeah i agree Joooeeeelllll 19:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Personal Life section doesn't sound like an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.193.194.208 (talk) 23:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other work[edit]

Didn't he do the song "Keep Changing the World" with the band Mikeschair? I couldn't find any mention of that song in this article...184.95.85.7 (talk) 19:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality/Tone[edit]

This article needs a complete rewrite. The entire biography section reads like a church testimony of this man's piousness. It's written in a very non-neutral tone. -- Ϫ 18:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This comment is not acceptable as it breaks a primary rule on wikipedia: WP:PERSONAL "Comment on content, not on the contributor". As for the content, both of the tags when inserted indicate "Please see the discussion on the talk page" and yet no discussion was started. I saw the change minutes after it happened and was prepared to give you time to explain what you were thinking, but after nearly three hours, I realized that it was a drive-by tagging. Other editors can't read minds. Thanks for explaining what you were thinking when you placed the tags. Now we're ready to discuss any issues with the article.
I don't see how the tone is not neutral. Based on your comment, the tone issue is the same as the neutrality issue. The article may not be written in a formal, encyclopedic tone, but I don't see any large issues, but feel free to re-write sections that you feel have inappropriate tone. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The tone of the biography section seems to be a bit informal, but that just might be because of my style preference. The neutrality issue is more sound, however. I'm hoping to try and get this article up to good article status, once my college finals are over.--3family6 (talk) 20:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Its a complete copy and paste from his labels site, facebook, myspace, etc. See. Inhumer (talk) 00:18, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since the article has been edited a lot, especially in April, they are mirroring the article, not the other way around. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:30, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To ensure neutrality one could focus on his documented trouble with the law that he has talked about, so it's not just a piece about his walk with God but also his earlier struggles. JFL1991 (talk) 05:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)JFL1991[reply]

I tried to clean up the bio section of peacock terms and puffery, but perhaps I went too far. However, since *nothing* in the bio section is cited, phrases like these: "Listeners responded by quickly noting him as an emcee that meets people where they are by delivering transparent and meaningful messages." "As Lecrae continued to make his mark in the music industry, he realized the stage wasn’t enough." "but the Lord had different plans," "Lecrae is humbled by his position in leading others towards Christ." sound really cheesy, unencyclopedic and (to me) they are nothing but thinly veiled POV. I'm in no way trying to bash Lecrae, or what he does and stands for, but this section really needs help. 98.71.49.64 (talk) 21:29, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

LeCrae's birthdate[edit]

I am responding to a recent change to LeCrae's Wikipedia page. I would propose that according to Wikipedia standards, birthdates are qualified as personal information that should not be posted on Wikipedia [1]. Although birthdates are public information that can be acquired through search agencies and government documents, that still does not make it approved Wikipedia material. I have already notified Wiki admin about the information and requested that it be removed.

I have yet to find any other site that displays LeCrae's birthdate, other than Wikipedia and those sites that directly pull and quote from Wikipedia; before this was posted on Wikipedia back in October, it was not searchable on the internet. If you do find a source that is reliable, please notify me.

I hope you would understand, being involved in the music industry yourself, why someone like LeCrae Moore would not want this kind of information so easily accessible (all it takes is typing his name into Google).

Thanks man, Bryan116 (talk) 22:18, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since it's not referenced it seems OK to remove it. If a reliable source is found, the date, along with the source, should be added here. There's no need to run the information past an editor first. I find it odd that you would create an account specifically to do this though. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:36, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is this link that implies is on or just before October 9, but year is not provided. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:39, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
THAT'S what I was thinking of, I knew there was some type of public announcement last year. Actually, the general timeframe can be calculated: His first album came out when he was 25, and we know his birthday is on or just before October 9 (I think that this can be confirmed). From that, the year can be extrapolated. This is perfectly acceptable under WP:CALC.--¿3family6 contribs 00:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed October 9: The DaSouth posting is from the Reach Records Youtube video from the Rehab Tour. That part was easy, the video is a top result on Google. The tricky part is whether the video was posted the day of, or a few days later. But, Charlotte, NC, is listed on the Reach Records website as occurring on October 9.--¿3family6 contribs 13:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Privacy concerns[edit]

The birthdate for Lecrae was recently changed by an IP editor, and then was removed by another editor do to privacy concerns. The editor who removed the date, Walter Görlitz, has stated that they recall a request not to include the birthdate over concerns of identity theft. Can this request be confirmed?--¿3family6 contribs 22:24, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the discussion immediately above? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:35, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is based on the supposition that the info Lecrae's birthdate is not public. Considering that there is an instance at a Lecrae concert where his tour-mates threw a surprise birthday celebration on stage, I would think this would mean that his birthdate is public knowledge. For the record, I am not opposed to keeping Lecrae's birthdate off the wiki article. But the info is public knowledge. The month and day were revealed at the concert, the year has been indirectly revealed by some biographies of Lecrae.--¿3family6 contribs 01:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The editor who made the request has not been active since July and that only after a short editing spree. If we could confirm that this is the subject's wish and not a random editor, it would be easier to confirm. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this means that it is okay to put in Lecrae's birthday: Dated October 9, 2012. "Christian hip-hop artist Lecrae is 33."--¿3family6 contribs 23:18, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

I have a question about the origin part of the Infobox. I'm fine with Atlanta, but I've seen a lot of sources say that he comes from Texas. Should we maybe simplify it to the US, and maybe elaborate in the article?--¿3family6 contribs 12:00, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Without a reference, that makes the most sense. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:23, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I could provide plenty of references for both, but I figured that it's pretty easy to back up through a simple Google Search. I'll go ahead and make the change.--¿3family6 contribs 15:11, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, in all the buzz Lecrae has been getting the past few days, the one place they all mention is Houston. So I'm guessing that's the one that is definitive. Since he was born there, the origin parameter can be ignored.--¿3family6 contribs 02:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lecrae - Gravity[edit]

If anyone is interested, I'm creating an article on the upcoming Gravity album. Feel free to play around if you want.--¿3family6 contribs 00:51, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

About the CHH line[edit]

Hey Walter,

first off my bad, I'm new to using wikipedia so I didn't know I was getting comments from you.

Ok, now about the Christian hip hop stuff, I know that Lecrae himself said that having a certain worldview does not make him a Christian rapper and he said himself that he is not fond of this title. I saw it on the interview i sent you, and I know that with the goals lecrae is aiming for, having that label placed on the main place people will go to find info about him is going to hold him back. Many of the magazines followed suit with that interview, I was wondering if we could do the same thing here.

I know that you said him being a Christian is what defines him as a Christian rapper, but you mentioned some circles. In mainstream media, Lecrae is seen as a rapper (one of few) unashamed to talk about real life and (more importantly) what he believes in. I feel that since most people coming here have heard of him from mainstream media, it would be a misrepresentation to keep the term Christian rapper as his genre and occupation.

Also I saw on your page that you yourself are a Christian, I am too and I'm only doing this because I want to keep as many doors open for Lecrae as possible and to make sure that he is represented correctly, to further open doors for Lecrae to present Christ and redemption in a proper setting.

I'll be dead honest with you, I am a rapper myself who is Christian, and I have found it to be very difficult when I would call myself a Christian rapper and overdiscuss Christianity in my songs. Lecrae used to be all Jesus and a little preachy back in albums like Rebel and before, but I think that as he sort of grew out of that mindset, like he mentioned in that youtube link I put in the description, he grew out of being a Christian rapper (in the context that I described previously) and just started being a rapper who relates to other people, talks real life in his songs, and is unashamed of what he believes in. I am not saying that he didn't do that before, but he said in another interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1PGdr2F4ss starting at 10:48) that him and his team really did start out as Bible thumping rappers, but that as they grew, their ideologies changed and that really not what God called them to be. I feel the same thing happened with both of us as God sort of revealed that being the most unashamed or the most blatant about the faith is not the way God called us to bring people to Himself, but rather, coming to them in a way they can relate to and just be more relevant to people's personal lives. Because of that, so many doors have been opened for both of us, today alone, I got to share with people about God because I was being relevant and just all together putting out good music, just like Lecrae has been doing and I think his new album Gravity is testament to that.

I am sorry if I seemed overly pushy with all the corrections, I thought it was my computer that was jacking up. I'll make sure not do it again.

I really do ask that you consider this because this is a rather large issue that I think resolving would help Lecrae out a lot and correct many misconceptions.

Thank you for your time and God Bless! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buchela123 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, it doesn't matter what he says he is or what he wants. He has been marketed to the Christian marketplace and the Switchfoot article takes a good approach on it.
Now if he were more like U2 or Bruce Cockburn who are Christians, or in the case of U2 three members are, but have never been marketed to the Christian crowd, both you and Lacrae might have an opportunity to argue that we need references to support the "Christian" claim. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:13, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The thing to consider here is, while a lot media treats him just as a rapper, a lot of other media treats him as a Christian rapper. He basically is a Christian hip hop artist by definition, and sources support that. Very few actually go so far as to refute the idea of him being a Christian rapper. Now, there does need to be a section dealing with the "Christian" label. With regard to statements like "the most important albums in Christian hip hop," those are directly sourced statements, almost quoted word for word, by reliable sources. --¿3family6 contribs 00:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)Whether they should be considered that, that is a different matter.--¿3family6 contribs 00:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry about that. I took up Walter's [EDIT: and 3family6's] offer to make a section addressing this issue, but I got it shot down almost immediately by somebody, Becky Sayles, saying that my comments were vandalising. She also said that I should practice with the sandbox in the future. could you guys go back to the old version and tell me what was wrong? Thank you and I'm really sorry if i caused any trouble.

Buchela123 (talk) 03:29, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It all comes down to the sources. They're all primary sources. Secondary sources would be better. And starting off with the idea that he "has been defined as Christian Rap" isn't factual. He has been nominated for GMA awards and Grammy awards in Gospel categories. He has collaborated with 116 Clique on blatantly Christian projects. He has been involved with the Christian music industry not just defined as such. His words seem to be a marketing effort or a change in direction, but which of those two it is will probably need a secondary source to help figure out.
While I wouldn't label what you wrote as vandalism, I would have edited it heavily. Perhaps 3family6 can take what you've written and make something a bit more acceptable out of it. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. I'll leave that up to the pro's to fix it up. Also, I am sorry that all that happened, just tried to help. I think from now on, I'll just try to leave it to you guys to do the stuff, I figured out pretty quick I don't know what I'm doing
Come on man, don't just leave. I didn't start off very good either, I'm sure very few of us have. Your user page should have a sandbox, you should experiment there. And watch what other editors do. That's how I learn. We want more editors, so don't feel discouraged.--¿3family6 contribs 13:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can attest to family's statement that he didn't start off well. I was blocked for edit warring myself. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Associated Acts[edit]

Add Ashthon Jones and Mathai to Associated Acts, please! Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.81.68 (talk) 23:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So far, Lecrae has only collaborated with each of these artists once. If more collabs occur, then these acts can be added. But single-instance, one-time collabs are not enough to qualify for a listing.--¿3family6 contribs 00:36, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=782gOJYB2Wg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.102.122 (talk) 00:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A single song does not qualify. See template:Infobox musical artist. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:12, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'll ask this here, since I've wondered this for a while. 116 Clique is listed as an associated act, as it should be. However, Lecrae very, very frequently collabs with the group members outside of the group. Should these individuals (Trip Lee, Derek Minor, Tedashii, Sho Baraka, etc.) be listed as well, or is the 116 Clique listing sufficient?--¿3family6 contribs 16:42, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Residence, Movement & Tours[edit]

Residence

Does Lecrae not live in Memphis? Not only does he mention something of the sort in his song 'Sacrifice', he also works with Heat Academy, one of his top producers of the moment for both Church Clothes volume 1, it's follow up and Gravity.

Heat Academy lives in Memphis so that significantly would be the reason why Lecrae works with in. He only works in Atlanta, as the Reach Records offices are there.

Please consider changing this information with use of the following references:

He lives in Atlanta, see these sources:
The New Release Tuesday bio is outdated and unreliable (not written by staff member). The Praise Houston source is reliable, but the blurb at the bottom of the article is outdated.--¿3family6 contribs 22:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, after researching a few more sources, I found that you are correct. Lecrae first lived in Memphis, after moving there from Houston and then relocated to Atlanta, where his lived for the past three-four years. This is from an interview he done last year with Family Christian. Thanks for your response.

Source: http://www.familychristian.com/blog/pulling-no-punches-an-interview-with-lecrae -- Realmixwell (talk) 13:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Annual Unashamed Tour

116 Clique is regular hosts to the 'Unashamed Tour' which happens every year. The tour is based on a certain region, for example last year it took place in the United States alone and in 2011 it took place in Africa.

Please consider creating a page for this and mentioning this information.

This info would go in the 116 Clique article. If you have reliable, secondary sources, please add to that article.--¿3family6 contribs 22:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
11Six Movement

Secondly the movement. It's come to my senses that the popular "movement of the young" as mentioned in Reach Records music is no where to be mentioned on Wikipedia. Either a page needs to be made on the whole 'Unashamed' brand or this whole description should be added to the 116 Clique Wikipedia page.

Not only is this movement significant, it is the backbone behind the whole label as Reach Records is "the music of a movement." By the way, the label also has various apparel distributed by Merchline, which caters for both Lecrae's music and all the other artists belonging to the label.

Below are some useful references regarding this:

Unfortunately, all of these sources are directly affiliated with the subjects. Third-party coverage is needed to demonstrate notability.--¿3family6 contribs 22:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You.

Realmixwell (talk) 21:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome for the suggestions, see my comments which I annotated into your post.--¿3family6 contribs 22:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Thanks for your response. -- Realmixwell (talk) 13:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Genres[edit]

It seems that "Christian hip hop" may not sufficiently describe the subject's genres. Looking at his primary discography I see the following genres:

  1. Christian Hip Hop, gangsta rap, hardcore hip hop
  2. Christian hip hop, southern hip hop
  3. Christian hip hop, dirty south, gangsta rap
  4. Christian hip hop, southern hip hop
  5. Christian hip hop
  6. Christian hip hop, reggae, soul
  7. Christian hip hop, conscious hip hop

The one constant is Christian hip hop, which is already listed. He has two southern hip hop, which reflect his earlier works. The remainder are only listed once. We would really need more sources on the two that @Polop121: has been adding: southern hip hop and conscious hip hop. Particularly with the latter, we shouldn't focus on recent genres to the detriment of the subject's entire career. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:51, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've thought about this for over a year now. Because Lecrae's style has change over the course of his career, and he's experimented more with different sounds, I'd say it's difficult to get any more specific than "Christian hip hop" to define his music. And I don't see any real need to be more specific - the infobox is supposed to be very general. With artists like Beautiful Eulogy, it can be very hard to simplify their style within a particular label, and thus the infobox might list more styles than it normally would.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:05, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
3family6 I agree with you. Pretty much every big artist has experimented with different genres over the years. --Mr. Guye (talk) 20:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA review[edit]

I have reviewed this article here. While it meets the Good article criteria, I have put it on hold because I have made a few suggestions for improvement. Feel free to address. Jacedc (talk) 00:35, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Recent revisions re: christian rap[edit]

@Walter Görlitz: @3family6:Okay, so we have several sources saying that Lecrae is thought of by some, many even, as a christian hip hop artist. These are WP:RSes. We know there's controversy about it, and that prominent sources still call him a christian rapper. Why all the revisions instead of combining these things into a more complete description of reality? Why not keep the sources, but point out the controversy?--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 20:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, let's follow the Bold-Revert-Discuss cycle instead of just reverting each other and saying cryptic things in the edit summaries, I'm guilty of it too.--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 20:46, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  1. The paragraph in question is about specific styles. I do not deny that he is a Christian rapper, but there is nothing stylistically different about Christian hip hop and mainstream. That paragraph in particular, states that his "musical genre is predominantly Southern hip hop, and has been described as falling under the styles of crunk, gangsta rap, and hardcore hip hop." I'm not fond of the Oxford comma there either. That is not supported by the reference that follows though.
  2. "Christian" is always, always, always capitalized. Always.
  3. I don't care about the controversy. It isn't one in my mind, but it appears to be in the subject's. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:51, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah sure, that all makes a lot of sense. That section should probably be kept as is. The reason I initially added sources to the "Christian Hip-Hop" claim is that a user changed it, saying that Lecrae is just a rapper who is christian, not a christian rapper. So I think adding sources about his label as a christian rapper in the lead and in the infobox is a good idea, and maybe even a link to that section, which includes a sentence or two about Lecrae's own view of his christianity. Thoughts?--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 22:11, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
When I worked on the musical styles section a few years ago, I felt that it didn't need to be specifically mentioned that he is Christian hip hop, because that is abundantly clear throughout the article, and is mentioned in hundreds of sources. In the same way that "Paris is the capital of France" doesn't need a citation, neither does a statement that he is Christian hip hop. There is a whole section that deals with the controversy and his preferred labeling, I don't know how much more needs to be added. If anything, what should get mentioned is the backlash he's gotten from a lot of Christians for his new approach to music since around 2011. It might be good to mention Street Symphony's influence in that, since Lecrae has mentioned that his work with Street Symphony is what led him to consider a different approach.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:46, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Walter you are right LeCrae is a Christian rapper, but he said he is just a rapper. JSA Baller 2.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsaballer 2.0 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's been said before, by many, many artists. First, Christian here is an adjective that modifies the genre itself. It carries certain themes. So we have Christian rock, Christian hip hop, Christian country music and others. If you can accept that, then we can move onto the second part of the argument. The genre has some specific music journalists and specific awards. The journalists help determine who is and isn't a member of the genre. The awards are given to members of the genre and sub-genres. There are media outlets and sales channels created for the genre. What several of these groups state determine who is and isn't a member of the group, not individuals themselves. Lacrae can say he's a jazz fusion artist, but if no one says he's a jazz fusion artist, then he's doing something wrong. He can say he's not a Christian rapper, but if journalists say he is, if he continues to be awarded GMA nominations, if Christian music sellers keep selling his music, then he's a Christian artist. If he doesn't like it, he can either change his behaviour so that people don't see him as Christian any longer, or he can change his style so he's not performing rap, but until one of those happen, he's going to continue to wear the Christian rapper label. No one is pigeon-holing him any more than music journalists who call other rappers Souther rappers, or East Coast rappers, or hardcore hip hop and list goes on. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:29, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Associations[edit]

This is getting ridiculous. Zaytoven does not meet the criteria of an associated act as he worked on one album and per Template:Infobox musical artist#associated acts, "this field is for professional relationships with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career." They worked on one album to date: Let the Trap Say Amen. It did not chart high on the Billboard 200 (No. 49) and no songs charted as singles. There is no significant association between the two and it's definitely not notable to either artist's career. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:25, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together" Or on an album being the key part in that. Also, to say that just because it didn't chart high doesn't mean anything, I don't think means it means nothing. Especially given that Lecrae rarely charts well by the standards given. Under uses of the field that should be avoided, the only thing it lists is "one-time collaboration for a single song". But it was a whole album. With Zaytovens name clearly attached. Additionally, since this is just in relation to Lecrae's article, not Zaytoven's, I think it's a notable collaboration for Lecrae. It may not be for Zaytoven, sure, but this is not his page. JustChillNJ (talk) 01:48, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's neither significant nor notable. It's just a collaboration. The "should be avoided" section elaborates what is neither significant nor notable, I'm stating that their work on one album is also an instance of this. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Or perhaps, more to the point, how exactly it's this collaboration both significant and notable to Lecrae's career? Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not so much that it's work on one album, but that the work on one album was the whole album. It would be like if Run The Jewels didn't exist, but Killer Mike came out with an album that was produced entirely by El-P, and then that album was labeled as Killer Mike x El-P. You could no longer say El-P was not a notable associate act. That said, I also notice that the Associated Act page for Lecrae leaves out MANY notable associate acts, such as Tedashii and Trip Lee (who have features on most Lecrae albums), Andy Mineo who has also been featured/had Lecrae featured. some of these may not necessarily be notable to the world, but they're notable in the sense that when someone thinks "Lecrae" they also think of that album he did one time with Zaytoven, or the artists such as Trip Lee and Tedashii that he's worked with many many times. But that's getting outside the current scope. I think my point here is that it's an album that literally has Zaytoven's name across the front of it. JustChillNJ (talk) 02:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Look, you've clearly missed the point of what constitutes an associated act, and you've failed to explain how this collaboration is both significant and notable to Lecrae's career. Just because they're both notable does not mean that a single work (which is how it used to be phrased) creates an association. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm following how associated act is used on most musician pages. I'm also showing you exactly how it's notable, based on the very same template you referenced. "or on an album". It's not that this is just "oh can you do one or two songs" it's legitimately that the whole album is both of them. On the front cover it's "Lecrae x Zaytoven". Now it may not be overall notable to Zaytovens career (whose page by the way, includes Usher under notable acts, where there is quite literally the same situation), but it's notable to Lecrae's career, in the same way that even if there was only one Church Clothes, having Don Cannon as notable would make sense. It's notable that he had an album with Don Cannon. It's also notable he had 3 albums with Don Cannon. It's notable he has an album with Zaytoven. Not an album with one song by Zaytoven, but every single song. Additionally, as you well know, there are no "rules" to wikipedia, only what is widely accepted as a general consensus. Look at Kanye West 's associated acts, follow the rabbit trail there, clicking through and seeing how Associated Acts are used. Look at how much artists have worked together. It's probably not much. It's still notable. It's still associated in the sense that they've done more than one song. (I'll be the first to tell you that putting Ty Dolla Sign or Wocka Flocka Flame as an associated act for Lecrae would be foolish. It's easy to assume that because I am a new editor, i'm new to Wikipedia, but I've used it enough to know patterns. To know traditionally, most times, with artists, how associated acts has been used. I also know the Christian Hip Hop scene well. I'm not saying you don't, but I'm saying that it was incredibly notable when it was announced that Lecrae was doing an album with Zaytoven. JustChillNJ (talk) 15:36, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, you're not showing me how in most mentions after the album, they have a detailed paragraph of how this album changed Lecrae's career. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:58, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:13, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox image[edit]

@3family6: for the infobox, I generally prefer an image that clearly shows the face of a person. I think File:Lecrae (cropped).jpg is more suitable for the infobox than File:Lecrae (screenshot).png. But if that's just me, I won't revert. Perhaps other editors could weigh in? - Alexis Jazz 20:00, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll let other decide here.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:13, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't been following which images are being fought over, but I prefer an image that clearly shows the subject doing what they are notable for. Of that is not possible, a headshot is the next best option. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:31, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Walter Görlitz: we're not really fighting. See thumbnails. All else being equal I agree with you, but the image on which he's performing shows his face far less clear because of the lighting. And infobox images preferably have a portrait orientation. (as opposed to landscape) - Alexis Jazz 12:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. His face isn't that obscured and it's a better representation of him as a singer, but there are MOS:IMAGELOC issues with him facing to the reader's right. All things being equal, the neutral portrait is probably better here. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware of IMAGELOC, that's very helpful. I could do a different screengrab from the same source video that would be a profile shot of Lecrae while recording, but 1) he's facing to the right again and 2) it's more of a profile shot than straight-on, which isn't a useful for identification.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We could also go back to the photo with him and Akon at the Billboard Music Awards.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 14:14, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@3family6: I'm not too sure about the copyright status of that image. I have several concerns with that file, I wouldn't recommend it. - Alexis Jazz 15:10, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you have concerns about that file, you should bring those up immediately.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@3family6: I can't. - Alexis Jazz 19:49, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you meant bringing them up here. My concern is that the file was uploaded by "Reach Records Management" and there is no OTRS permission or verification that "Reach Records Management" is actually an account of the record label. - Alexis Jazz 19:51, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would lodge that question at Wikimedia Commons.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:14, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@3family6 and Walter Görlitz: I was surprised to find that the video 3family6 took a screenshot from is actually 4K. 3family6, try VLC's snapshot feature next time. I just uploaded two new files. (see thumbnails) - Alexis Jazz 11:46, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Alexis Jazz: I like the photo of him recording, just is very dark lighting and thus difficult to see. Thanks for the tip about VLC.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 14:43, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@3family6 and Walter Görlitz: Indeed. I tried making it lighter, but there's no way in this case. So I guess it's between File:Lecrae holding microphone during performance.jpg (which is a sharper version of File:Lecrae (screenshot).png) and File:Lecrae (cropped).jpg. - Alexis Jazz 15:36, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One more to make your choices more difficult. - Alexis Jazz 15:53, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That one is right-facing and the close-up gets into uncanny valley.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:24, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@3family6: I disagree with the uncanny valley remark, but it may be too close for the infobox. It's right-facing indeed, but subjectively feels less right-facing than File:Lecrae holding microphone during performance.jpg. I've added a left-facing screenshot as I like offering choice, but I don't know if it'll be any better. - Alexis Jazz 18:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The "sitting in the recording studio" image isn't that good as he's looking down, drawing the viewer's attention away. The "in the recording studio" image is probably my preferred "action" photo, but I really liked the copy vio image that was removed the best. The portrait image (the first) might still be the most clear overall, but I'll let you two hash it out. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Walter Görlitz: I added one more "sitting in the recording studio" screenshot where he isn't looking down as much. Sadly it's not as sharp as the first one. @3family6: I personally don't prefer the current infobox image. I also don't prefer File:Lecrae in a recording studio (cropped).jpg as it's too dark. (you agreed on that) Either of the remaining four would be alright with me. If you highly prefer the current image, at least swap it out for the sharper version please. - Alexis Jazz 13:09, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My preferred image is the one second from right, where he's in the studio.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
File:Lecrae sitting in a recording studio.jpg it is! - Alexis Jazz 19:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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