Talk:Nefertiti Bust

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Good article Nefertiti Bust has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
December 15, 2009 Good article nominee Listed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 28, 2009.
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Art history?[edit]

There is a lot on the history, but little on the art history here. Johnbod (talk) 01:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I have been away from the article for some time, but I notice that my comment above was picked up, but not followed up, in the GA review. Just to be clear, the article still has virtually nothing on the role and context of the bust within Egyptian royal portraiture, which is indeed very much the focus of its current excellent presentation in Berlin, and which I would expect to take up a large part of a good article on the subject. I don't think the article meets GA standards in its current state for this reason. Johnbod (talk) 18:52, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
The exact role and context of the bust within Egyptian royal portraiture is unknown. "The exact function of the bust is unknown, though it is theorized that the bust may be a sculptor's model."--Redtigerxyz Talk 12:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
That is not the same thing at all! Johnbod (talk) 13:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Can you please show a sample para discussing the issue in another article/webpage so I can understand what you really want to see in the article? --Redtigerxyz Talk 13:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
You are writing an article on a single artwork from a rather distant culture, but have no art historical material on the lengthy and much-discussed artistic tradition from which the object comes, which should be a major element of the article. You don't even link to our Portraiture in Ancient Egypt, which is not a bad place to start (not that they seem to link here either). Other stuff quickly found online is here and here. No doubt there is plenty more. That the sculpture was a reference model for use in the studio seems fairly generally assumed, and might be stated more strongly. Johnbod (talk) 14:03, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

please explain WHY the statue was made in the this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.198.227 (talk) 03:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Not the Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft[edit]

Although the translation (German Oriental Company/Society) is right, the institution (Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft (DMG)) is not correct. It was the Deutsche Orient-Gesellschaft (DOG), of which one of the founders was James Simon himself, the lone sponsor of the Amarna excavation in 1912/13. The DOG was established in Berlin, as the DMG was in Leipzig. The DOG is still in Berlin.

You may find some more information about the DOG here:

--Sat Ra (talk) 09:38, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Background: removal of[edit]

Background is a brief paragraph about who Nefertiti was. It was added so that the reader need not claim on the Nefertiti link. --Redtigerxyz Talk 12:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't removed intentionally. It was added during an edit conflict, and replaced afterwards. I'm all for a little context. Yomanganitalk 13:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

First display: 1923 or 1924[edit]

There is confusion when the bust was first displayed, some sources say 1923, some 1924. 1924 is now used in the article. I am confused. Some someone find reliable references? --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

This may be a reliable reference about the first display of the bust:
  • see page 286 and note 24: The bust was presented to the public in Borchardt’s text on the Nefertiti portrait, dated 1923 but published in 1924, as well as through the exhibition of the bust beginning in March; see Krauss, ‚1913-1988, p. 100
  • see also http://www.museum.de/p/p_magazin/magazin.pdf ; pages 6-7: „Die Schöne“ wurde ab 1924 im Neuen Museum der Öffentlichkeit präsentiert. („The beauty was presented to the public in the Neues Museum in 1924.)
I hope, this helps. A footnote could be added to explain the two dates. --Sat Ra (talk) 09:59, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
P. S. I am sorry, I failed to receive the work of Krauss to which is referred to so many times. While I am still working on the German version I will keep a steady eye on this important thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sat Ra (talkcontribs) 09:58, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. incorporated in the text. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nefertiti bust/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

shall be reviewing this page against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Quick fail criteria assessment

  1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.
  2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
  3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.
  4. The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.
  5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.

No problems with quickfail criteria. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:39, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria[edit]

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):
    • I have made a number of minor copy-edits, mostly to avoid repetitive phrasing. Please check.
    • CT scans: The CT scan in 2006 – led by Alexander Huppertz, the director of the Imaging Science Institute in Berlin, revealed a wrinkled face of Nefertiti carved in the inner core of the bust. I find this somewhat unclear. The phrase carved in the inner core of the bust. suggests that somehow a there is a secret inner sculpture. Could you try to rephrase this for clarity? Green tickY
    Yes. There was a secret inner sculptures like wrinkles, which was coated by stucco. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:27, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
    • The 2009 scan provided greater detail than the 1992 one – revealing subtle details just 1–2 mm under the stucco. I thought that the second scan was in 2006 according to an earlier sentence. Or was there a third scan in 2009? If so then that should be stated. Green tickY
    Corrected. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:27, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
    • Colors: I changed from Colours as the rest of the article uses American English spellings. copper oxide is a disambiguation page - which is meant - Copper(I) oxide or Copper(II) oxide?
    • I fixed one disambig (the other copper oxide is mentioned above, and several redirects in the wikilinking.
    I do not know which link is appropriate. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
    • OK, no problem, that can be fixed later. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
    Done; it's fixed now --Sat Ra (talk) 17:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
    b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    • References check out. I assume GF for print sources. But please add ISBN for books. Green tickY
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    • Is ref #3, The Ancient Egyptians for Dummies, a WP:RS? Green tickY
    Replaced. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:58, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
    c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its scope.
    a (major aspects):
    • I note the comment on the talk page re the art history. There really isn't much of this in the article. Is there more that can be sourced?
    • Please let me know what in art history specifically is needed, because the same info may be available in elsewhere in the article, without the title "art history". --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
    When exactly the bust was created is not known (circa year given). Look and materials including colours are covered (the comment was before this part was added).
    b (focused):
  1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  2. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  3. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    Removed. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  4. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    • The article is nearly there. Please respond re my notes above. I note that the nominator is busy for several days, so I will have a look in a week. On hold. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
    • OK, I feel taht the article is now worthy of GA status, although of course there is always more to be done. Passing as GA> Jezhotwells (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Additional comments
  • The lead is really jumping around. Try to move "The bust has become..." out from between historical info.
Done. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • As Jez noted, some of the images are reundant, especially those two.
Done. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:07, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Why is coup in italics?
Done. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:07, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Why is mislead in quotation marks? That is what Borchardt claimed.
The document reveals there may have been a deliberate attempt to mislead. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:07, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
That still doesn't make sense.
  • Why is secure shelters in quotation marks? They are secure shelters.
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • "Berlin’s Neues Museum, Museum Island" makes no sense. It should be "on Museum Island"
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Combine the sentences "In 1956..." and "There is was..."
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • (German Democratic Republic) is unnecessary
Official name. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Still unnecessary. We don't have to add Federal Republic of Germany when refering to the West or current country. A link to East Germany is sufficient.
  • "Nefertiti to Museum Island, East Berlin," -> "Nefertiti to Museum Island in East Berlin,"
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Why does "launched by cultural association, CulturCooperation, based in Hamburg, Germany." have a comme after association?
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • "...Neues Museum – her old home, the appropriateness..." should have either double dashes or double commas.
  • Johann Georg is a dab.
No article in dab. Seems to be relevant. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
If none of the links in the dab is the right one, then delink it or pipe to an appropriate redlink.
fixed as well; according to this German article (a portrait) it's Prince Johann Georg of Saxony. Under: Ein Perspektivwechsel it is said: ‘... so wohnte er 1912 der Bergung der Büste der Nofretete bei ...’ (thus he took part at the excavation of the bust of Nefertiti). --Sat Ra (talk) 09:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
  • You can remove the non-notable redlinks
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Why is queen in quotation marks?? That is what they personified her as.
Done --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Same about double dash/comma in sentence "By the 1970s,..."

Overall it is a very informative and referenced article! Reywas92Talk 00:01, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

How is it almost intact? Reywas92Talk 22:10, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

For the disambiguations of copper oxide, asked Sat Ra, who added the colours para. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Body of Nefertiti[edit]

Are there any photos of this that could be added? I think it would really add to the article to demonstate how it was displayed in this.RafikiSykes (talk) 05:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

You can see a photo here. Getting copyright permission for a photo and "fair use" for this page would be rather difficult I'm afraid. Paul B (talk) 11:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Nofretete Neues Museum.jpg to appear as POTD soon[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Nofretete Neues Museum.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 5, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-05-05. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 20:49, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Picture of the day
Nefertiti Bust

The Nefertiti Bust is a 3300-year-old painted limestone bust of Nefertiti, the Great Royal Wife of the Pharaoh Akhenaten and one of the most copied works of Ancient Egypt. It is believed to have been crafted in 1345 BC by the sculptor Thutmose, in whose workshop it was discovered in 1912 by a German archaeological team led by Ludwig Borchardt. It is part of the Egyptian Museum of Berlin collection, currently on display in the Neues Museum and has been the subject of an intense argument between Egypt and Germany over the Egyptian demands for its repatriation.

Photo: Philip Pikart
ArchiveMore featured pictures...